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ELENA'S MODELS

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Posted by: Cactus

I have read most of the articles from Elena. I must admit that a lot of information there was correct ( for example, that of some cultural differences, holidays, and some other stuff). However, there was A LOT of bias "facts" that made me wonder if this girl (Elena) comes from a tiny village in the center of nowhere. She still has some odd Soviet standards and they sound funny, to say the least. To name a few (not exact quotes but pretty close to them):

"Don't tell RW compliments as they're not used to them."

"Don't tell a RW she's beautiful as it is discriminatory." (Ha ha!)

"Make sure you show up for the first meeting in a suit and tie." (How dumb!)

"Give her a piece of jewelry as a gift when you meet her." (Here it comes, babe!)

"RWs are very insecure about themselves and don't consider themselves beautiful." (That's a piece of crapola!) - and - "Don't tell her you liked her photo in her profile as she thinks she's not pretty. It will also turn her off." The reason for this is that the RW would think you've chosen her for her looks and not for her soul. Sort of buying her. (Then why do they post their best photos in their profiles?")

Elena also talks a lot about how Russian women are patient, submissive, non-materialistic and stuff like this. I've lived most of my life there and I know this is NOT true, especially with the younger women who don't remember the Soviet Union times and have much more modern upbringing. They ARE picky. I've read many of their forums where they talk about the money or materialistic things. Very little is said about pure love in the shack. None of them is dreaming to marry an old loser who'd bring her to live in his trailer. They don't want older husbands. Very, very few of them would accept that just because of their desire to get out of their country (hard life and stuff). But most of these girls are getting pickier and pickier every year, month and day of their search. They're young. They realize they have a whole life ahead and can be picky and can wait an extra year or so to find a right man. Those who'd agree for anything like shack and trailer are very few and usually uneducated or loaded with children single mothers who are indeed desperate. Really beautiful and young girls with great education won't rush to marry old wrinkled guys, sorry to say that but it is true. I personally don't know any. And I know hundreds of girls who are looking.

Back to the subject. Elena keeps telling that in Russia women outnumber men and there are 10 million more women than men. Thus 10million women would never get married. The fact about women outnumberning men is correct. What Elena forgets to tell you is that in Russia, women live 10 years longer than men. This is where the putnumbering comes from. If you compare the statistics about the men and women of child-bearing age, you'd notice that it is pretty balanced. Those women CAN find a mate of their own age (+/- a few years).

Anyway, I think it is a good idea to do your homework before trusting everything you read on her site (and others too).

I've read stories of several girls who used Elena's service and had their profiles on her website. They kept getting letters even after they got married and asked her to remove their profiles. Elena did not do a thing about this and kept selling married women's addresses. Then she writes in some of her articles that a 10% response is normal. Yeah, right. Buy 10 addresses, spend a little fortune for them, and only one would respond (the real girl who is still single and looking), and there are fat chances that som,e if not all, of the 9 others are happily married for several years.

So, good luck with hunting at Elena's site. I hope the girls you write to are real...


Posted by: searcher

Hi Cactus,

You bring up some VERY good points and I agree with 90-99 percent of what you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
I have read most of the articles from Elena. I must admit that a lot of information there was correct ( for example, that of some cultural differences, holidays, and some other stuff). However, there was A LOT of bias "facts" that made me wonder if this girl (Elena) comes from a tiny village in the center of nowhere. She still has some odd Soviet standards and they sound funny, to say the least. To name a few (not exact quites but pretty close to them):


Here is where things become humorous....

Quote:
"Don't tell RW compliments as they're not used to them."

"Don't tell a RW she's beautiful as it is discriminatory." (Ha ha!)

"Make sure you show up for the first meeting in a suit and tie." (How dumb!)

"Give her a piece of jewelry as a gift when you meet her." (Here it comes, babe!)

"RWs are very insecure about themselves and don't consider themselves beautiful." (That's a piece of cr*p!) - and - "Don't tell her you liked her photo in her profile as she'd think she's not pretty. It will also turn her off." The reason for this is that the RW would think you've chosen her for her looks and not for her soul. Sort of buying her. (Then why do they post their best photos in the profiles?"


I FREQUENTLY compliment my fiance (and I am sincere in my compliments) she is not insecure by ANY means, she is rather outgoing, confident, etc and she knows she looks so fine!

(I better stop myself )

Quote:
Elena also talks a lot about how Russian women are patient, non-materialistic and stuff like this. I've lived most of my life there and I know this is NOT true, especially with the younger women who don't remember the Soviet Union and have much more modern upbringing. They ARE picky too. I've read lots of their forums where they talk about the money or materialistic things. Very little is said about pure lovi in the shack. None of them is dreaming to marry an old loser who'd bring her to live in his trailer. They don't want older husbands. Very, very few of them would accept that just because of their desire to get out of their country (hard life and stuff). But most of these girls are getting pickier and pickier every year, month and day of their search. They're young. They realize they have a whole life ahead and can be picky and wait an extra year or so to find a right man. Those who'd agree for anything like shack and trailer are very few and usually uneducated or loaded with children single mothers who are desperate. Really beautiful and young girls with great education won't rush to marry old wrinkled guys, sorry to say that but it is true. I personally don't know any. And I know hundreds of girls who are looking.


I agree with you entirely, the problem is that this stereotype exist among some people that Russian girls/women are so desperate to "escape". Some people don't think logically and don't realize what they are implying.

To imply that ALL of these girls are desperate would also imply they are whores willing to sell their body and/or soul to the first sucker to come along.

I find THAT hard to believe and in EVERY country on this earth, there are people (male and female) that would sell themselves for something, be it money or a perceived better life. However, most people are honest we must be cautious certainly but it is not only incorrect but wrong to make such assumptions or to believe such stereotypes but look on the internet, look at the many forums and you will see people that believe these things.

I was reading another forum and one of the men advised another man to look for women in Moldova because they were more poor there and there were more desperate women there..... IS that really the way to look for a wife??????? I was thinking OH MY GOD!!!!!!

A reasonable, normal man hopes to meet a nice woman, someone that is special, someone that makes him forget about everything and everyone else but to look for someone that is desperate suggest to me that man has some other motive and not necessarily an honorable one!

Quote:
Back to the subject. Elena keeps telling that in Russia women outnumber men and there are 10 million more women than men. Thus 10million women would never get married. The fact about women outnumberning men is correct. What Elena forgets to tell you is that in Russia, women live 10 years longer than men. This is where the putnumbering comes from. If you compare the statistics about the men and women of child-bearing age, you'd notice that it is pretty balanced. Those women CAN find a mate of their own age (+/- a few years).


I partially agree with you but I honestly think it is more complicated that just a surplus of women.

I once read (and I believe this to be true) that "the good men, get married and STAY married", so I think for many women the reality of not being able to find a good man is partially true. Not all men want to get married, you have many that are already married, etc so how many desirable men remain????

I don't say bad things about Russian men, I have much admiration for many of them too but I can say when I was there I personally saw many inebriated men on the streets, I could smell the alcohol!

So, yes, I could saw that perhaps alcoholism is a problem in Russian society and every society (including ours in the U.S.) has its problems.

I also saw/met married men that were out at clubs with their girlfriend(s). So, infidelity is perhaps more common there than it is here.

Don't misunderstand me, I know these things happen EVERYWHERE but I think some problems are more common in different countries.

Quote:
Anyway, I think it is a good idea to do your homework before trusting everything you read on her site (and others too).

I've read stories of several girls who used Elena's service and had their profiles on her website. They kept getting letters even after they got married and asked to remove their profiles. Elena did not do a thing about this and kept selling married women's addresses. Then she writes in some of her articles that a 10% response is normal. Yeah, right. But 10 addresses, spend a little fortune for them, and only one would respond (the real girl who is still single and looking), and there are fat chances that some of the 9 others are happily married for several years.

So, good luck with hunting at Elena's site. I hope the girls you write to are real...


Absolutely!



Furthermore, one man wrote in his report that the women he saw were not much better looking than the women in his own city

I think there are also many things to consider there too.....

I think I can say with a certain degree of truth that Russians are [in general] in better shape/health than many Westerners. They HAVE TO walk more often and for further distances. Obestity is a problem in the U.S., England, etc. SO, in some ways, I think it is true that they are "better looking" but that is a subjunctive term, a matter of taste and preferences rather than a fact.

I did see many nice women in Omsk though! Anyway....

I happen to like the eyes of many Slovic women. I am partial to a nice pair of legs than, say, large breast or a hair color, etc but all-in-all what matters most is what is inside.

I CAN NOT STAND STUPID WOMEN! I like that many people there have a good education. I like having conversations with Russians, even if we disagree, they seem to have many thoughts about the subjects we discuss.


I think what we both see and agree upon is that rather than looking for someone that conforms to some stereotype, we should simply look for someone that we love. Stereotypes, myths, etc are quickly and easily shattered by reality.

I would love my fiance all the same no matter where she lives or where she grew up as long as she were the same person.


Posted by: vic2012

Hi Cactus,

That was an interesting first post. You said at one point, “Back to the subject” I'm not sure if I fully appreciate the subject or motive. Are you warning old men that, their days of finding younger attractive women in Russia, are gone?

Are you saying that Russian men are now filling the gap, that was never there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus
Those women CAN find a mate of their own age (+/- a few years)


Are you slagging off Elena’s Models, which have a reasonably good reputation in a rather murkey market.

BTW, as for the advice they give; don’t forget, some men who look for partners this way, are very insecure and much of that advice is, nothing more than rather sad hand-holding.

And, as for profiles hanging around, long after their owners have gone. This is very common. Lena, the wife of the Main Man here, discovered her profile still being advertised years after her marriage.

Finally, you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus
I've lived most of my life there
So do you have actual evidence that, Russian women's dating habits are changing. Or, is all anecdotal?

.


Posted by: Pin Boy

cactus,

welcome. you got the ball rolling (again) on this explosive topic. interested to hear where you lived, how long you were there, your life/work/relationship experiences there, etc.

pin boy


Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher


To imply that ALL of these girls are desperate would also imply they are whores willing to sell their body and/or soul to the first sucker to come along.

I find THAT hard to believe and in EVERY country on this earth, there are people (male and female) that would sell themselves for something, be it money or a perceived better life. However, most people are honest we must be cautious certainly but it is not only incorrect but wrong to make such assumptions or to believe such stereotypes but look on the internet, look at the many forums and you will see people that believe these things.



Tell me, how long have you had to go without food? When was the last time you not only didnt have any money to eat, you also didnt have money for a place to sleep? I wonder if you would hold such a sancrimounious attitude if on top of all of what I asked you, you had to watch your little boy or little girl starving because you couldnt feed them..... I wonder just how long it would take before you were a LOT less judgemental about exchanging sex for food, shelter and clothing.

NEVER judge a person unless you have walked in there circumstances.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobOhioGuy
Tell me, how long have you had to go without food? When was the last time you not only didnt have any money to eat, you also didnt have money for a place to sleep? I wonder if you would hold such a sancrimounious attitude if on top of all of what I asked you, you had to watch your little boy or little girl starving because you couldnt feed them..... I wonder just how long it would take before you were a LOT less judgemental about exchanging sex for food, shelter and clothing.

NEVER judge a person unless you have walked in there circumstances.


Did you read what i wrote?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
To imply that ALL of these girls are desperate would also imply they are whores willing to sell their body and/or soul to the first sucker to come along.


To imply - to state something as fact when it is unproven.

Continued....
Quote:
I find THAT hard to believe and in EVERY country on this earth, there are people (male and female) that would sell themselves for something, be it money or a perceived better life.

However, most people are honest we must be cautious certainly but it is not only incorrect but wrong to make such assumptions or to believe such stereotypes but look on the internet, look at the many forums and you will see people that believe these things. {the stereotypes, etc}



1) Reread what I wrote

2) I don't think all women are in such dire straights and if so I wouldn't judge them for trying to take care of a child or their family.

3) I pointed out the fact that there are many people out there (and many of them are men seeking FSU brides) that believe that all of those women looking abroad are somehow desperate due to financial/material reasons. Many of them are simply lonely women looking for a man that they feel they could love and have a relationship with.

Not all of them are willing to marry the fisr man they have contact with, many of them do have standards. HOWEVER, as in any country or city, there are a few bad apples, so to speak. THAT IS WHAT I SAID HERE ----> "However, most people are honest {but} we must be cautious"


Posted by: vic2012

Yes Searcher, I read it your way too. But I'm afraid your glasses have quite a rose tint to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
I was reading another forum and one of the men advised another man to look for women in Moldova because they were more poor there and there were more desperate women there..... IS that really the way to look for a wife??????? I was thinking OH MY GOD!!!!!!

Searcher, I'm afraid we live in a very murkey world.

Last week, police uncovered evidence of an auction held at London's Gatwick airport. For sale? Kidnapped women being sold into the sex trade.

Of course, the more unscrupulous men among us, will head for Moldova, if they think there are desperate women there. Thats life. Sad, but there's no OMG about it.


Posted by: Cactus

Guys,

Sorry, I don't want to discuss my own life and answer personal Q's. I'm not here for that. Just wanted to share my point of view.

You know, I've read quite a few forums where RWs who are looking for foreigners get together to discuss various subjects related to foreign life, international marriage, etc. When new people join those forums, know what their first Q's are? Yeah, right - the money. Most of them ARE looking seriously and intend to find a good husband. At least, this is what my opinion is so far. But their first Q's or stories would be something like this:

How can I find out how much money he makes?

How do I do a background check on this guy?

How do I know if the pics he sent me are really of his house?

How do I know I won't end up in a trailer?

Is 70K a year a lot or a little?

He gave me a whistle as a gift when he came over to visit me. What a jerk! Why are they so greedy?

A guy is saving money to come over for a visit. He's poor since he doesn't have spare copule grand. I'm going to dump him!

He's got his own kids. Will he be paying for my kids' college?

And there are thousands of treads like this all over the Internet! Russian women DO think about the money. Love isn't enough because withing 15 years since the Soviet Union collapsed, they learned a lot about the western life and they know what they could and should get. They often have an interesting job that provides for a decent life. Some of them would never have such a good job if they moved abroad. Also, if they can afford to buy all those fashionable clothes they wear in their photos, then obviously, they're NOT starving. Russians are very fashion-minded people. Much more than you think. They might not have as much money as they wish they had, but they're definitely NOT desperate. Reading those forums, I can easily say that they are concerned about their level of life when they move abroad. Many of them worry if they would even have an adequate level of life that they're used to. Why move to a trailer and step down in their level of life? Also, prestige is a big thing for most RWs. They'd be very ashamed to tell their friends and relatives that they have less than they had back in FSU. That's why they're so concerned about the money of their prospective husbands. One girl I know doesn't want her relatives, even her parents, to visit her becuse she's ashamed of her level of life in Germany. Her husband rents a small apartment that is even smaller than the one she had back in Russia.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I personally don't know any woman, old or young, who would sink into love without any concerns about her level of life and would gladly agree to live in a shack. Those times are long gone and Russian women became more pragmatic and money-minded. I don't say it is good or bad (although I have my own opinion on this) but I say that Russian women are no worse than American women. At least not these days.


Posted by: Cactus

Moldova? Nah! It's too close to Europe and people there are not as poor as one might think. I have a penpal there, a simple schoolteacher. She isn't rich but she says people aren't much different in Moldova (in economic terms) than in, say, Ukraine. If one really wants to find a POOR woman who's ready for anything, FSU won't be a good place. No place in Europe would. Perhaps, Albania would be an exception. Or even Portugal. Been there - it IS poor, esp. in smaller towns. There are quite a few Portuguese people in our state who immigrate here in largre numbers each year. Also Italians, believe it or not. I met a girl from Sicily, she barely speaks English. She says life here is much better than in her home country. She was making $200 a month back home. That's not much more than FSU women make. LOL. Perhaps, Asia and South America would be a perfect place for those hunting for poor women (I mean real poor to be willing to accept ANY living conditions). In FSU though, things aren't as bad as you think. I'm not talking about some villages out there - people there aren't looking for western men to marry. I mean those RWs who are looking. Most of them live in big cities or big enough towns, and their living conditions are much, much better than, say, Asian or South American people have. Even if you go to such remote places as Kyrgyzstan, people there are pretty well off. They DON'T starve. They buy good clothes. They're spending $150 for a pair of jeans. I had a visitor from one of the former Soviet Republics and she said she spends no less than 100 bucks for a pair of jeans. Besides, she was only 20. So, you get the picture. They're not desperate, no matter what FSU part they're from. Prestige is what drives them in almost every aspect of their lives. They're no cheap and DO think about money when it comes to int'l marriages.


Posted by: Volga Trader

It is no longer 1997 in Russia. All Russians seem to have more confidence in the future. I no longer meet people who seem desperate to leave at any cost. There was a time when public employees were many months behind on wage payments. Now a public sector job is desirable again so the pressure to leave is much less. However, a single mother in a 30 sq metre flat is still going to want to find a solvent man wherever he is from. I suspect that because of (now vanishing - on the sholf at 21) Russian social patterns these women are often more educated than their western counterparts.

I have looked at the Age Crossover issue. I will post the numbers on the Mate Value Discrepancy thread when I have all the references. In Russia, there are more men than women until about age 31 - I read that elsewhere. It is essentially the same as in the USA. There are more men than women in the USA until the early 30's. In Russia, men in rural environments have more accidents and drink more alcohol than city men, so they die faster. This does not affect the city women in the marriage agencies. I suspect that no one here is dating a woman from a Kolkhoz. In the US, there is a particularly high death rate among young black males. So again, not much impact elsewhere in the population. The US has a higher male accident rate in general than in Europe - both US and Russia have risk taking cultures. Also more women (all those Mexican hotel maids) than men emigrate to the USA which does have an impact in the general population and keeps the crossover age low.

So both Russia and the US have surplus women of childbearing age - mostly single mothers.

The UK is apparently more European in that the crossover age is in the early 40's. However, over 2 million Brits are immigrants and official immigration patterns to the UK indicate twice as many women immigrate (nurses, Polish waitresses) as men. Many of those 2 million came more than 30 years ago.

Figures for American second marriages suggest that it is usual for men to marry women at least five years younger on a second marriage. From memory, in about 40% of US second marriages the man is more than 5 years older than the woman. In about 60% he is more than 2 years older. The woman is almost never older than the man in second marriages - about 2%. I don't have UK figures yet. So the figures in the RMP poll that about 50% of men are looking for/found (can't remember) women more than 5 years younger and 25% more than ten years younger are not outrageously different from normal second marraige patterns. In my own case I was looking for 5-10 years difference but a woman 14 years younger came looking for me (and she wasn't poor) before dumping me - nothing to do with age or even me, I suspect. A combination of pressure from elsewhere and the job of her lifelong dreams in Moscow.

The divorced UK/US women on dating sites (supposedly orientated to marriage) looking for men at least ten years younger than themselves are not looking for (or not getting) marriage partners. A first glance suggests that it is UK women who are looking for very young partners much more than Americans - or American women are less confused about the purpose of the sites.


Posted by: Volga Trader

Catcus in Post #9 has it right in terms of my experience. RW educated enough to be interesting (most city women) are not desperate. I would also say they are rapidly getting less so.


Posted by: Cactus

Forgot to mention something. On most of these Russian forums, there is a lot of info about median income for each state and even counties (Southern CA, for example). These girls do know what they are looking for. They know what kind of life there is in the US and what to expect. They ask about insurances, education fees, expenses/bills, etc. They DO have an idea what life is like in America. That's because the times when they had no info on western life is long gone. On their forums, they have links for the sites with info on various positions average income in the States, the powerty level and so on. Some girls even have sort of a formula. Something like "20K per person in the family a year". That means, if she has a child, and hopefully a guy doesn't, she wants him to make at least 60K a year. These girls also help each other to do a background check on the guys, not to mention black lists of sex tourists and other weirdoes. The socials they're having in FSU are booed and made fun of. If you really want to know what the RWs say about the AMs and other westerners, it'd be a good idea to learn their language. You'll kill two birds with one stone: be able to communicate with her in her own language (or at least know there is no one saying anything bad about you in your presence, ha ha - that happens), and read their forums.


Posted by: Volga Trader

Catcus,

In #12 I think you are talking about the under 35's.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
Guys,

Sorry, I don't want to discuss my own life and answer personal Q's. I'm not here for that. Just wanted to share my point of view.



Anyway, the bottom line is that I personally don't know any woman, old or young, who would sink into love without any concerns about her level of life and would gladly agree to live in a shack. Those times are long gone and Russian women became more pragmatic and money-minded. I don't say it is good or bad (although I have my own opinion on this) but I say that Russian women are no worse than American women. At least not these days.



I understand.. I wasn't asking specifically about your life...

I also understand that ANY sensible person doesn't want to move into a shack or trailer, so to speak.

But I also think that these women don't have much to go by. They use whatever information they can obtain to learn about a guy, his standard of living, etc...

I don't view them any differently than Western women in that they also want nice things too, who doesn't??? And how would want to live in some place that seems horrible??? I don't see that happening either....

Considering that many/most of them have never been here, what else would they use to judge a man by?

I think they look for a balance of many things including character and income.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic2012
Yes Searcher, I read it your way too. But I'm afraid your glasses have quite a rose tint to them.

Searcher, I'm afraid we live in a very murkey world.

Last week, police uncovered evidence of an auction held at London's Gatwick airport. For sale? Kidnapped women being sold into the sex trade.

Of course, the more unscrupulous men among us, will head for Moldova, if they think there are desperate women there. Thats life. Sad, but there's no OMG about it.



Well I am aware that these things happen and I don't deny that there are unscrupulous people out there, its just that i don't like it and it amazes me that someone would openly promote such an idea of going after "poor" or "desperate" women (even though their perception about those women is incorrect).


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
Forgot to mention something. On most of these Russian forums, there is a lot of info about median income for each state and even counties (Southern CA, for example). These girls do know what they are looking for. They know what kind of life there is in the US and what to expect. They ask about insurances, education fees, expenses/bills, etc. They DO have an idea what life is like in America. That's because the times when they had no info on western life is long gone. On their forums, they have links for the sites with info on various positions average income in the States, the powerty level and so on. Some girls even have sort of a formula. Something like "20K per person in the family a year". That means, if she has a child, and hopefully a guy doesn't, she wants him to make at least 60K a year. These girls also help each other to do a background check on the guys, not to mention black lists of sex tourists and other weirdoes. The socials they're having in FSU are booed and made fun of. If you really want to know what the RWs say about the AMs and other westerners, it'd be a good idea to learn their language. You'll kill two birds with one stone: be able to communicate with her in her own language (or at least know there is no one saying anything bad about you in your presence, ha ha - that happens), and read their forums.


Ok, I just read this.... They may know in some sense what they are looking for. They have friends that tell them about life here, etc but it is still a lot different to discuss 401k's, etc than it is to come here and live.

They may be able to make a good economic judgement of a man's income but he may have incredible debts, etc. That is still only part of the picture...



P.S. - I DO read their forums


Posted by: Cactus

I know. Nevertheless, they do talk about debts as well. They don't want too inherit the guy's debts, esp. in the communal law states like CA. They discuss marriage contracts and stuff like this. I would too, if I were one of them, to be honest. Why not? They live in 21st century when information is widely available. And they learn FAST. Faster than one thinks. Not that most of them are gold diggers, but they just don't want to end up in a shack. Large debts is a very hot topic these days. They do find out ways to figure out if a guy has debts. Some girls ask the guys send them a copy of their tax returns when they apply for a fiancee visa. Is this fair? I'd like to hear the answer from guys if possible.


Posted by: searcher

I don't have a problem with that...

They are giving up the only life they know, possibly moving thousands of miles away from their family and friends. Who would want to end up in a bad situation???

You might ask, would a guy be willing to give up everything he has to move to the countries where these women live.....

Possibly! Not every man would do it but there are similar thing a man would also have to consider such as could he find a job there and be able to support his family, could he learn the language well enough to find a decent job, etc.

I don't see it as being much different.. Sure, these women are typically moving to a country with a better economy but it is still a major change in their lives.


Posted by: vic2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus
Very little is said about pure love in the shack…………………...

None of them is dreaming to marry an old loser who'd bring her to live in his trailer………

Those who'd agree for anything like shack and trailer are very few and usually uneducated………………..

How do I know I won't end up in a trailer?.....................

Why move to a trailer and step down in their level of life?....................

Anyway, the bottom line is that I personally don't know any woman, old or young, who would sink into love without any concerns about her level of life and would gladly agree to live in a shack…………………...



Like I said in my previous post, I don’t fully understand the subject or your motive in this post. Other than the fact that is contentious.

You’ve definitely got the bit between your teeth about RW coming to the US and living in a shack/trailer. But this is not the norm, yet you keep on banging on about it as if, that is all that is available.

You’ve certainly got up a head of steam about US/RW partnerships. I also have to tell you that, in the three short visits I have made to Russia this year, I saw enough evidence of poverty to show that the standard of living is improving, but only slowly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus
Even if you go to such remote places as Kyrgyzstan, people there are pretty well off. They DON'T starve. They buy good clothes. They're spending $150 for a pair of jeans. I had a visitor from one of the former Soviet Republics and she said she spends no less than 100 bucks for a pair of jeans. Besides, she was only 20. So, you get the picture. They're not desperate, no matter what FSU part they're from.


But here Cactus, you are talking bollocks. People are NOT pretty well off. Yes there is a strata of society now driving around in BMW’s and buying $150 jeans. No I dont get the picture, because the MAJORITY are still trying to make ends meet.

.


Posted by: skinsfan

Hi Cactus...i just stopped my wife as she was leaving for ESL class...i asked her what was the most money she spent in Russia for jeans...she said no more than $20.00 (twenty dollars) i asked if she knew anyone who spent $150.00 for jeans, and she laughed...she said maybe in Moscow such things may happen, but never in Taganrog. i have been to Russia 4 times....people work hard for very little money....for the people i met, $150 jeans are out of the question.


Posted by: Volga Trader

I have dated a Russian woman who was able to pay $50 a pot for a week's supply of anti ageing creams to be applied for at least 6 weeks. She was an exception. Her previous boss was once a runner for Next President of Russia after Eltsin. She owned two flats and her own business. I never saw her in jeans but her suits and dresses cost hundreds maybe over a thousand for one pink suit; the photos of which still reduce me to a quivering male jelly (I don't think that's rude - the context is social). I was considering moving to Russia where my capital would make a lot of things possible. My income here was irrelevant; In the next ten years Russia is going to go through the economic growth that it took the UK (now #2 in income per head in the G8) 30 years to acheive. Anyone under 45 with a half decent job should seriously reconsider leaving Russia if it is just money they want. If yopu have capital and business skills rather than an inherited family business, then you too should consider joining your woman in Russia.

On the other hand, I have a business partner/potential employee, who keeps applying for the post of girl friend, who lives in a 30 sq m apartment with her 12 year old daughter. She lives on about 100 000 RUR a year. I am going to more than double that shortly which will put her ahead of most women in Saratov. She is not getting the post of g/f because she is 18 years younger than me. The last one was 13/14 years younger. (It wasn't why she dumped me) but 18 years is beyond my belief even if she looks like a goblin, smokes 60 a day and has white hair at 36 - none of which matters actually. She's very clever and has tremendous drive. Anyway, I only go out with nomenklatura or their children.

There is huge economic variety in Russia. There was a lack of confidence but there isn't now. The days of "Marry me because you are desperate" are over but it doesn't mean Western men have nothing to offer. Think English Women and French Men or vice versa. I think Cactus is out of date as far as RMP is concerned. In fact as far as I can tell RMP has never been a "Marry me because you are desperate" site. Elena's Model's appears to have been that way at times so he has a point but not one to raise here at the length it has been.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

I met my GF on Elena's Models. She was not desperate and she asked questions about my income and possessions. All the woman I contacted on Elena's Models returned my e-mail. Maybe I was lucky but I would use the site again.

GTR


Posted by: waiting123

as far as the tax returns... it is a requirement at the consulate when your wife/fiancee goes for her interview. They have to have a signed affidavit of support and your tax returns.... It is on a check list..of course they know about this. But my wife has really no clue about 401K, certain retirement packages, my trusts.. no idea how this works. My wife is a highly educated lady from St. Petersburg.

and as with any society to include the US, the 150$ jeans remark, some peole can afford this, and most people can't... a very small percentage of people can. Most make between 300-1000$ a month.... 1000$ being the upper level of income. What do you have aganist Russian Woman. Whatever you have aganist them, this is probably the wrong place to constantly criticize them


Posted by: searcher

Well, not to flame anyone but keep in mind there are some hugh disparities in the incomes in Russia. My fiance also says that some people there pay $150-200 for jeans but keep in mind most people probably DON'T have a closet full of jeans either!

They may have 1 or 2 pairs of jeans which last for a long time and many other less expensive clothes.


Posted by: Jerico

Well i can tell you that my wife already owned 300 dollar pants and expensive clothes such as Roberto Cavalli.She lived in moscow and made pretty good wages. Of course she did not own a car or have insurance payments or a house payment either like most of us here in the USA
i never knew of such designers until i met my wife.
She has quite a few pair of 150 dollar jeans.
If you ever go shopping with your girlfriend or wife you will notice that womens clothing is very expensive.
To my wife it is not price but quality of the product.
Quality stuff cost more money.
Also her shoes ,hehe , dont even get me started on the 300 dollar shoes
My wife is worth all the pants and shoes she buys.
She is quite the woman which is why I married her.
Jerry
I also forgot to add that I met her on ELenas Models as well. No problems at all with the agency.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

What an interesting thread but so full of generalisations (which by now I am sure you all know I cant stand) and just plain and simple personal felings (which are fine unless they are passed off as absolute gospel, and I am thinking we are supposed to be thinking this is the case with some of theis stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
Russian women DO think about the money. Love isn't enough because withing 15 years since the Soviet Union collapsed, they learned a lot about the western life and they know what they could and should get.
I honestly don't know what you are trying to imply here. Do you think that before the Iron Curtain come down the Soviets didnlt know what life was like in the west? I KNOW for a fact they did. How does he know this? I here you think. Well I went to school with a Muscovite Jew. He used to tell us all about the Soviets and what they would tell the people and you know what they were damm acurate in their appraisal of what life was like in the west. The thing they did do with the info though was paint it as though we were greedy and not interested in the greater good. Which in many ways I agree with. I think youy may just have a befe with Elena's which you have a right to have but why keep harping on about it. Can I introduce you to Ham?


Posted by: ham

Quote:
I was reading another forum and one of the men advised another man to look for women in Moldova because they were more poor there and there were more desperate women there..... IS that really the way to look for a wife??????? I was thinking OH MY GOD!!!!!!


why?
After all, why aren't men going the MOB route going or seeking massively in Sweden, Spain, Cambodia or Uganda?
I have no problem admitting I KNOW i stand MUCH GREATER chances of getting a 7-8 woman ( I being a 5-man myself ) in the FSU than i would in Sweden or Spain; most go for 9s & 10s too. As for Cambodia or Uganda, no fair haired, fair skinned white women there.

Quote:
There are quite a few Portuguese people in our state who immigrate here in largre numbers each year. Also Italians, believe it or not. I met a girl from Sicily, she barely speaks English. She says life here is much better than in her home country. She was making $200 a month back home.


non-specific statement. In every US ghetto you can find 10x more people talking like that. It's not country specific.

Quote:
It is no longer 1997 in Russia. All Russians seem to have more confidence in the future. I no longer meet people who seem desperate to leave at any cost.


the MOB joke has been stretched farther than expected. Both men & women in the pursuit have started to realize the pursuit's innermost limitations & boundaries.

Quote:
But here Cactus, you are talking bollocks. People are NOT pretty well off. Yes there is a strata of society now driving around in BMW’s and buying $150 jeans. No I dont get the picture, because the MAJORITY are still trying to make ends meet.


well, $150 a pair of jeans is a completely different universe in most countries, including western ones.
It may be as well she saved for ages before making the purchase.

About hoax and myths associated with the MOB industry...well, it's just an industry.
Every insurance agents has the best product with the best guarantees & his company never refused any claim...every used car salesman has a nice car just like brand new.


Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Ukraine is a 2 class society.

Rich and working poor. I was just in Odessa, and I saw a turbo carra porche parked on Deribuskiave Street along with a host of BMW's and Mercedes Benz's.

Trust me there is a small percentage of people who can afford to buy $150-200
jeans and not bat an eyelash.

Beach front property is selling for 2000 USD a square meter right now. Frankly, given what Odessa will be like in a decade, thats dirt cheap


Posted by: ira156

Hi Cactus, Im new to here and no i havent been to Russia, i will be in 6 weeks. With regards to Elanas models, i have read everything she has on the site as well as the e-book. i must admit that i didnt get the same picture of what she was saying as you did. My impression was not to emphisise the photos but to look at who the woman is , her likes dislikes, what you have in common ect. She clearly points out the age diffences and what can be the pitfalls. Are the women looking for a better life? Arent we all. The impression i got was that financially secure doesnt mean rich to them but being able to provide a secure family environment, home, food education for your kids ect. As an interesting note a recent interview in Australia had 3 women in their mid-late 30s asking the most important qualities in a man they seek. All of them put money first. When asked about love, trust, even just the fact that the man was a "good bloke" they all said yeah but money is more important. I think that some of Elanas imput is based on her personal experience and that as we are all different, so will our observations of life. I have had plenty of expressions of interest come back "not interested" so i am well aware that these women are not desperate. And hell im a real catch lol. Look forward to hearing more.


Posted by: ira156

Hey Cactus, Wow What a cheek of these women. Not trusting western men and believing every thing they say. Hell checking to see if they have debts. And these men are doing them the favour of taking them from their family and friends, to a stange country where they dont completely understand the language. And how can they not look forward to helping this guy pay off their debts. Sorry about the sacasism


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
As an interesting note a recent interview in Australia had 3 women in their mid-late 30s asking the most important qualities in a man they seek. All of them put money first. When asked about love, trust, even just the fact that the man was a "good bloke" they all said yeah but money is more important.
That whole segment annoyed the living daylights outa me, they didn't want love they wanted a guy to look after them and give them everything. I have no problem with a lady wanting a reasonable life when she was with a guy, I think guys feel that way to with ladies, but those 3 people all had buy their own admitance everything they needed and where quite comfortable yet they wanted a guy with money so he could keep them in the lifestyle they are accustomed to.

I think Bing has it right, "the Bank of Bing is now closed". Life should be treated like a term deposit rather than a credit transfer.

JMHO.


Posted by: Blanton13

A couple of questions about Elenas....

1) Is it free for women to sign up at?
2) How common is it to see the same Lady posting on two different sites?
3) I've heard mention of "local agencies", what the pot are those?
4) What's the difference between a Confirmed and non-confirmed profile?
5) They've got a warning that the womans email bounces or whatever, is that a red flag?
6) What's the response rate mean? Obviously higher is better, but how much weight should be put into it?


Thanks again.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanton13
A couple of questions about Elenas....

1) Is it free for women to sign up at?
2) How common is it to see the same Lady posting on two different sites?
3) I've heard mention of "local agencies", what the pot are those?
4) What's the difference between a Confirmed and non-confirmed profile?
5) They've got a warning that the womans email bounces or whatever, is that a red flag?
6) What's the response rate mean? Obviously higher is better, but how much weight should be put into it?


Thanks again.


I asked some similar questions around May last year when I was new to this malarkey! here are some of the answers direct from EM customer services and my own input:-

1 Yes and see 7 below
2. They are free to post on as many sites as they want. Some do so and some are just on EM site.
3 I don't know what you mean with this question, 'local agencies' are sometimes used, they could be owned by EM or affiliated to them, I suppose it all depends on the City you are referring to?
4 Confirmed usually means they have actually met or interviewed or vetted the lady at one of their local offices.
5 My understanding is that it could mean her inbox is full, or she has changed her email address and is no loner answering/using that one. It is not really a red flag, but it may niot be worth you contacting her if she is not accessing her inbox.
6 This is what EM told me - It does not matter when the lady was registered on the web what matters is her response rate and whether she has a working email. Please pay attention to those details as they are the indication for her activity and how fast she is going to reply.

For more information, they also told me:-

7 The ladies can use all the website facilities absolutely free of any charge. They can email any men, view any photos etc
8 Communicating by usual mail will take ages. It is better to select the ladies with high response rate and email through the web.
9 What is the standard form of communication? - It depends on each lady. If the lady has high response rate then better to contact her through the website and take it from there. If her response rate is 0% but she does have a working email then of course it is better to write to her directly.


I also asked about visas for ladies to visit the UK, this is their response:-

It is not a good idea and we advise against it. Men should go to Russia to meet the lady and spend some quality time with her if all is good and they want to move to the next level they apply for a Fiancee visa which is immigration subcalss. So she will enter UK as your prospective spouse.

So there you are.

Chris


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanton13
A couple of questions about Elenas....

1) Is it free for women to sign up at?
2) How common is it to see the same Lady posting on two different sites?
3) I've heard mention of "local agencies", what the pot are those?
4) What's the difference between a Confirmed and non-confirmed profile?
5) They've got a warning that the womans email bounces or whatever, is that a red flag?
6) What's the response rate mean? Obviously higher is better, but how much weight should be put into it?


Thanks again.


1) Yes
2) Very... some are on 5 to 10 sites
3) The girl signs up at an agency in their town and the agency manages their account at Elena's. Usually these are the ones without computers and/or don't know English
4) There are some who put an email address that does not work. I started to see this 'confirmed' a while back and I THINK that the site is now sending emails to them to see if they get a response back... but, this is just my thinking...
5) No. The email accounts for most people are limited in size. My excite account only has 125 mb... anything more is bounced.. and what do we have here??? Many men sending BIG pictures of themselves that loads up their mailbox... hence, bounces..
6) I think you are talking about the expression of interest response rate... I think you should put some weight to it... if it is zero.. then is she responding??? Somebody else can tell me if this is true.. but I think if you sign up you can send an expression of interest.. if she likes you, she responds back and then you can write and use one of your contacts... but, you can just use one of your contacts and NOT send an expression of interest... I don't know as I have not been on the site as a memeber for a few years and it has changed a bit...


Posted by: I/O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanton13
A couple of questions about Elenas....

1) Is it free for women to sign up at?
2) How common is it to see the same Lady posting on two different sites?
3) I've heard mention of "local agencies", what the pot are those?
4) What's the difference between a Confirmed and non-confirmed profile?
5) They've got a warning that the womans email bounces or whatever, is that a red flag?
6) What's the response rate mean? Obviously higher is better, but how much weight should be put into it?Thanks again.


Having met someone (Not my partner though a lovely lady) through Elenas and having quite a bit of interaction with the site (The owners live not far from me) I have learnt quite a bit about it.

1) Yes ladies do get a free shot there with the obvious problems that creates regarding scammers also. Although the site does try to work on that a bit more than others, they are there also and must be watched for.

2) Quite normal and most ladies use anything from 2-10 sites. If they are genuine in their search of course they will use all resources available.

3)Local agencies can be anything from a shop front agent in the lady's city who manages her account for her through to a single operator who is scouting for Elena's. A previous writer remarked that often ladies who don't have English communicate via their local agent. Elenas is quite up front about the local agent thing and I guess one should perhaps read some gentle warnings in between those lines. (I don't like shop front marriage agencies)

4)Confirmed is when they have actually met a rep from Elena's so can be identified as a real and genuine person. The problem here is, if you follow the site a bit you will see new ladies surfacing regularly from one or other particular city. Obviously the local scout is working hard and getting commissions. There is one particular scout, shall we say from an eastern city in a Central European country who is very active. You will notice a consistent theme with the photos of ladies from that city. He does quite a number on them because he must also be getting commisssions on phone an computer sales from some local business. They all have phones and computers. Yes the ladies are all real from this city. Don't come into his "Final charge for the introduction on the spot if you go there". I have met one of the ladies from this location and she was rather upset as to how it was gone about with someone she met some months before. She commented that she rather felt like a piece of meat being sold for a price. (I contacted her directly and arranged our own meeting)

Confirmed profile has nothing to do with the email address.!!!

5) Exactly as it says, the email address has failed to receive the internal emails and as such may be , full, false, deleted or just not working correctly.

6)Response rate is how many approachs the lady has responded to, whether or not she has responded positively or negatively is unknown to all including the site. Just software providing stats. I would tend to think that if I got a positive response from a lady with a low response rate, she is fairly serious, but that is just my opinion.

Final point. Elena's is one of the more reputable sites, but it is a website nevertheless and Elena Petrova is, by her own admission, very much a sales person with a long history in sales and marketing. I don't think there is any reason to think that this "Sales Driven Site" will put any person's desire to find a life partner above their profits. Cynical? Nope...realistic.


Posted by: Raspberry

What is also good about Elena's is that the site also lists Russian/FSU women that live outside of the FSU. So, there are a number of women in places like Amsterdam, Portugal, London, Paris, Ohio, etc....


Posted by: Blanton13

Does Elenas web site offer translation with their site? Or am I on my own to make that happen?


Posted by: RRR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanton13
Does Elenas web site offer translation with their site? Or am I on my own to make that happen?



Yes, the offer translations. You can send and receive thru e-mail, or lately you can now send thru your EM account.


Posted by: Raspberry

A couple of other things about Elena's.....

(1)I do not have a "weekly list" subscription. But I have looked at some of the profiles, in hopes that when they are put into the general catalog, I can contact them. As it turns out, a few either were unavailable, or have too many people corresponding BEFORE they are put into the general list, that they are not taking any new correspondence. So, getting the weekly catalog may give you an advantage.

(2)I noticed that they are allowing a few women who are "separated"(but still legally married) on this site.


Posted by: erikvw

Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting123
as far as the tax returns... it is a requirement at the consulate when your wife/fiancee goes for her interview. They have to have a signed affidavit of support and your tax returns.... It is on a check list..of course they know about this. But my wife has really no clue about 401K, certain retirement packages, my trusts.. no idea how this works. My wife is a highly educated lady from St. Petersburg.

and as with any society to include the US, the 150$ jeans remark, some peole can afford this, and most people can't... a very small percentage of people can. Most make between 300-1000$ a month.... 1000$ being the upper level of income. What do you have aganist Russian Woman. Whatever you have aganist them, this is probably the wrong place to constantly criticize them


Being a bussiness owner ,what it says on paper is not, what it is like in real life!!
just don't tell anybody!


Posted by: erikvw

As vfor Elena's models I have found my friend and love there, and once we both have hidden our profile's, have not received any mail .
There services have been Great!
You can read all that you want , until you find out for yourself you can only speculate!!


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry
.

(2)I noticed that they are allowing a few women who are "separated"(but still legally married) on this site.


Yes I noticed that recently also Raspberry, I am not sure they used too, maybe a new thing?


Posted by: Seaview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Yes I noticed that recently also Raspberry, I am not sure they used too, maybe a new thing?



There is no such thing like separation in Russia. A woman is either married or not. If a woman is "separated" she is defenitely married. At the same time she can be absolutely free for a new relationship.

A female friend of mine was married for 2,5 years. THe last two years they didn't live together, had no sex and actually were just friends too busy to bother themselves with divorce papers. She divorced only when she fell in love with another guy and needed a divorce stamp in her passport to marry him.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaview
There is no such thing like separation in Russia. A woman is either married or not. If a woman is "separated" she is defenitely married. At the same time she can be absolutely free for a new relationship.

A female friend of mine was married for 2,5 years. THe last two years they didn't live together, had no sex and actually were just friends too busy to bother themselves with divorce papers. She divorced only when she fell in love with another guy and needed a divorce stamp in her passport to marry him.


It does state Seaview on their profiles 'Married' no where does it state 'Separated' but they obviously are separated as they are seeking new partners. Some state in their profile they are soon to be divorced or words to that effect though, just to make the position clear.


Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
It does state Seaview on their profiles 'Married' no where does it state 'Separated' but they obviously are separated as they are seeking new partners. Some state in their profile they are soon to be divorced or words to that effect though, just to make the position clear.


There were two that clearly said "Married, Separated" that I saw. But both of them lived outside the FSU(UK and US residents).


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry
There were two that clearly said "Married, Separated" that I saw. But both of them lived outside the FSU(UK and US residents).

That may be why then if they were outside the FSU ?? the fact is I don't remember seeing any on the site before that said 'Married' is this a new thing?


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
That may be why then if they were outside the FSU ?? the fact is I don't remember seeing any on the site before that said 'Married' is this a new thing?

If it said Married,seperated maybe they were trying to say they were still married but not yet divorsed ie: seperated


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
If it said Married,seperated maybe they were trying to say they were still married but not yet divorsed ie: seperated


Yes that is what I said here I think


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc

7 The ladies can use all the website facilities absolutely free of any charge. They can email any men, view any photos etc


Are you sure about that Chris?

As fas as I understand, a woman can make her profile free of charge, as well as to send her Expressions of Interest.

However, in order to send out some email /text message, e.g. any meaningful information in words, one must be a paying member, either a man or a woman. At least one of eventual communicators must pay. Usually, it is the man.

Do I see this correct?


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
Are you sure about that Chris?

As fas as I understand, a woman can make her profile free of charge, as well as to send her Expressions of Interest.

However, in order to send out some email /text message, e.g. any meaningful information in words, one must be a paying member, either a man or a woman. At least one of eventual communicators must pay. Usually, it is the man.

Do I see this correct?


Yes that is correct Lily, it is the man who always pays on Elenas Models anyway. They actually confirmed this to me in an email some time ago.

My question to them was:

Quote:
Do the ladies have access to all personal details along with access to all photos we place in our profile free of charge, or do they have to pay for any service at all?


Their reply was:

Quote:
They can use all the website facilities absolutely free of any charge. They can email any men, view any photos etc


I hope this helps Lily.

Chris


Posted by: LilyNewbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Yes that is correct Lily, it is the man who always pays on Elenas Models anyway. They actually confirmed this to me in an email some time ago.

My question to them was:



Their reply was:



I hope this helps Lily.

Chris


Thank you for your replies Chris!

I still can not understand whether a woman unpaying member can email a man member FIRST with some meaningful email, say, if she wants to ask him a particular question?


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
Thank you for your replies Chris!

I still can not understand whether a woman unpaying member can email a man member FIRST with some meaningful email, say, if she wants to ask him a particular question?


Yes she can, eg if you registered (non fee paying) you could email or send a message through the site to any man ypu wanted too.

That is how a lot of women contact the men first.


Posted by: LilyNewbie

And do I correctly see that the man who is being addressed has to pay Elena Models in order to open and read an email from the woman who contacted him?


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
And do I correctly see that the man who is being addressed has to pay Elena Models in order to open and read an email from the woman who contacted him?


YES! either by a payment per contact or by one of their many subscriptions.


Posted by: freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyNewbie
And do I correctly see that the man who is being addressed has to pay Elena Models in order to open and read an email from the woman who contacted him?


Hi Lily, Welcome to the forum! At Elena's if the man has a "gold" membership he gets 50 contacts over the 6 (or 12) month term of membership. If he uses of the contacts (either by himself or to answer the woman's letter) then he can read all of her e-mails and also get all her contact details, like address + phone #. So if the man does use a contact to read the woman's e-mail it means he is interested in her.


Posted by: GentleGiant

I signed up to the Weekly Ladies Catalog, you have unlimited access and email to all the new women members for 4 weeks and access to "selected" other profiles; ie the really unloved ones !!!!

I wrote to about 100 women over 3 months, and received letters from 20-30; including one who wrote to me first.
Of those 20-30, 2 were later removed for scamming and I finally went out to visit the 4 I liked the best.
Of those 4 :-
1 didnt turn up.
1 miss-understood when I was visiting and was in Tashkent until after I went home.
1 I met but there was no chemistry.
1 I met and really, REALLY liked, but 2 months after my return she Dear John'ed me.

Not all bad news though, I met someone on the Metro and we are still writing ( when my internet is working!! (another story); she is pretty, intelligent, funny, and far, far too young for me.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGiant
I signed up to the Weekly Ladies Catalog, you have unlimited access and email to all the new women members for 4 weeks and access to "selected" other profiles; ie the really unloved ones !!!!

I wrote to about 100 women over 3 months, and received letters from 20-30; including one who wrote to me first.
Of those 20-30, 2 were later removed for scamming and I finally went out to visit the 4 I liked the best.
Of those 4 :-
1 didnt turn up.
1 miss-understood when I was visiting and was in Tashkent until after I went home.
1 I met but there was no chemistry.
1 I met and really, REALLY liked, but 2 months after my return she Dear John'ed me.

Not all bad news though, I met someone on the Metro and we are still writing ( when my internet is working!! (another story); she is pretty, intelligent, funny, and far, far too young for me.



Perhaps i'm reading too much between the lines and perhaps things are just what they look like, but men incurring mishaps, misinformation and women who "mysteriously" are unavailable when the "love of their life" finally shows up ( while otherwise endlessly complaining most western men NEVER show up ) grew in number constantly over these last years.

It has been reported some agencies might adopt "soft" scam schemes.
Hardly a wild guess, considering that any woman (especially if attractive ) might very well have several men chasing her at any given time.


Posted by: GentleGiant

It was a miss-understanding, I originally was planning to go late August but had to go right at the beginning because of work, I tried to tell her this about 6 weeks before I was flying out ( 8 weeks before she thought I was coming).

I wouldn't have classed any of them as "the love of my life" before hand anyway, I told them all that I needed to meet them before I could think about serious romantic intentions; the woman in question was a teacher in Moscow, I do not know when the school term finishes; certainly there were children in a school near my hotel; so perhaps she was genuinely unable to get to our meeting and unable to call me, there was a big thunderstorm that evening and mobile reception was poor.

Barring the border guard and a clerk at Kievskaya Railway station, every woman I met in the course of my stay was open and welcoming, eager to help, unlike the men, who always gave me the wrong directions when asked.

Considering I had only been writing to those women for 3 months( 6 months for one who went to Tashkent), I think a 50% success rate at meeting up was not bad.

I am still unsure what Katja's intention towards me are, I started out as a friend, but she seems very eager to meet up again soon, either flying here if she can get a visa and work alongside me for a few weeks as part of her degree course; or next year, when I am planning to return to Russia and do some voluntary work ( if I can find any) in a children's shelter.


Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Yes she can, eg if you registered (non fee paying) you could email or send a message through the site to any man ypu wanted too.

That is how a lot of women contact the men first.


Interestingly enough, I got two mails from this one lady. She happens to be in the "weekly catalog"---which I am not subscribed to. So, yes, women can and do.

Of course, I have not opened the mail since I don't have a weekly. But I did look at her profile, and she doesn't seem to be one I would be interested in anyway.


Posted by: freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
I have read most of the articles from Elena. I must admit that a lot of information there was correct ( for example, that of some cultural differences, holidays, and some other stuff). However, there was A LOT of bias "facts" that made me wonder if this girl (Elena) comes from a tiny village in the center of nowhere. She still has some odd Soviet standards and they sound funny, to say the least. To name a few (not exact quotes but pretty close to them):

"Don't tell RW compliments as they're not used to them."

"Don't tell a RW she's beautiful as it is discriminatory." (Ha ha!)

"Make sure you show up for the first meeting in a suit and tie." (How dumb!)

"Give her a piece of jewelry as a gift when you meet her." (Here it comes, babe!)

"RWs are very insecure about themselves and don't consider themselves beautiful." (That's a piece of crapola!) - and - "Don't tell her you liked her photo in her profile as she thinks she's not pretty. It will also turn her off." The reason for this is that the RW would think you've chosen her for her looks and not for her soul. Sort of buying her. (Then why do they post their best photos in their profiles?")

Elena also talks a lot about how Russian women are patient, submissive, non-materialistic and stuff like this. I've lived most of my life there and I know this is NOT true, especially with the younger women who don't remember the Soviet Union times and have much more modern upbringing. They ARE picky. I've read many of their forums where they talk about the money or materialistic things. Very little is said about pure love in the shack. None of them is dreaming to marry an old loser who'd bring her to live in his trailer. They don't want older husbands. Very, very few of them would accept that just because of their desire to get out of their country (hard life and stuff). But most of these girls are getting pickier and pickier every year, month and day of their search. They're young. They realize they have a whole life ahead and can be picky and can wait an extra year or so to find a right man. Those who'd agree for anything like shack and trailer are very few and usually uneducated or loaded with children single mothers who are indeed desperate. Really beautiful and young girls with great education won't rush to marry old wrinkled guys, sorry to say that but it is true. I personally don't know any. And I know hundreds of girls who are looking.

Back to the subject. Elena keeps telling that in Russia women outnumber men and there are 10 million more women than men. Thus 10million women would never get married. The fact about women outnumberning men is correct. What Elena forgets to tell you is that in Russia, women live 10 years longer than men. This is where the putnumbering comes from. If you compare the statistics about the men and women of child-bearing age, you'd notice that it is pretty balanced. Those women CAN find a mate of their own age (+/- a few years).

Anyway, I think it is a good idea to do your homework before trusting everything you read on her site (and others too).

I've read stories of several girls who used Elena's service and had their profiles on her website. They kept getting letters even after they got married and asked her to remove their profiles. Elena did not do a thing about this and kept selling married women's addresses. Then she writes in some of her articles that a 10% response is normal. Yeah, right. Buy 10 addresses, spend a little fortune for them, and only one would respond (the real girl who is still single and looking), and there are fat chances that som,e if not all, of the 9 others are happily married for several years.

So, good luck with hunting at Elena's site. I hope the girls you write to are real...


I signed up with Elena's and had about 50 different ladies write me over about a 3 month period. I have talked to 3 different ones on the phone, met one of them and wrote the others by e-mail. I decided that none of them were a good match for me, but they were certainly all real and single. Very nice girls, IMHO, all spoke english reasonably well, just not the right one for me. I think it is a good idea to keep your options open when you go though, so if your meeting does not go through then you can arrange another one. As Elena says in her book, even if you call the girl on short notice, most of the girls will agree to meet a man who is in her city, even if they have not exchanged many letters.


Posted by: Testman

The only real problem with Elena's models is the ratio of men to women. I placed an ad there and for the life of me, got no where. But when using any other agency, I would say 80% of the women I write will write me back with great interest. I think Elana's Models has become popular enough that the gender ratio has tilted against the men's favor.


Posted by: firemansam

I had no problems with Elena's when I was corresponding. I wrote and received many emails from ladies. As for the letters I received, many were not for me and honestly, i wrote to many who were beyond my league!

But I never had a problem with their service or their ladies. From my experiences.. all be them small compared to others, you are better off finding a lady who you can write to without a third party. As for Elena's, yes this is possible but for me, it worked out better in the first instance.

Either way, I wish you good luck! I suggest you be open and honest from the first letter and do not let your lack of hair get in your way. It would be terrible to build up a great email/phone call relationship only to have it not progress because reality did not meet expectations on her part.....

Dasvidanya,

Sam.


Posted by: Testman

A friend of mine recently tried out Elana's Models and it was the same for him as me, spent a month writing to so many women and only one or so women wrote back. Perhaps this is a very recent event with EM? Has anyone used them very recently?


Posted by: royalpalace774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Testman
A friend of mine recently tried out Elena's Models and it was the same for him as me, spent a month writing to so many women and only one or so women wrote back. Perhaps this is a very recent event with EM? Has anyone used them very recently?



Hi Testman,
I met my current girlfriend on Elena's and I have to say that I liked the service. You send an EXPRESSION OF INTEREST to a lady and she sends you back a yes or a no. And also the ladies take it upon themselves to contact you on their own.

I think when I was sending out Expressions of interest I would send about 30 out and receive about 12 that were interested. I think you just have to keep on top of it. I also heard that if you at least log in to the site everyday it keeps you on top of the profiles that the girls see 1st.


Posted by: GentleGiant

I suspect it was because they were getting so many letter, I joined the Weekly Catalog rather than the normal service, it gives access to new members for 4 weeks before ANY of the Silver,Gold, or Platinum members even get to see their profile.
I got lots of replies, even though I was also mostly writing to women who were far out of my league.
I estimate I got a reply for every 3 letters I sent and a positive reply leading to at least 10-15 more letters from about 1 in 10.
I went out last year and met several of them, a few were no-shows but the rest were genuine people, just not enough chemistry between us except for one; and she eventually picked someone else over me; I think money was the deciding factor there, Nursery Nurse's do not earn huge wads of cash.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Testman
A friend of mine recently tried out Elana's Models and it was the same for him as me, spent a month writing to so many women and only one or so women wrote back. Perhaps this is a very recent event with EM? Has anyone used them very recently?


Used them for over two years, never had a problem, have actually met in person some nice ladies on their site and my current UW I am visiting soon. Log in regular, keep yourself at the top of the rankings, make sure your profile is written correctly, a few good pics and you won't have a problem. I don't use any other site now.

PS I have taken my profile off until I see how things go with my current UW


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
Used them for over two years, never had a problem, have actually met in person some nice ladies on their site and my current UW I am visiting soon. Log in regular, keep yourself at the top of the rankings, make sure your profile is written correctly, a few good pics and you won't have a problem. I don't use any other site now.

PS I have taken my profile off until I see how things go with my current UW

You are right Chrismc, log on everyday so you are at the top of the list when women look for men.

I used EM last February and didn't have a problem, plenty of women to chose from that write me and answer my profile.


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
I got lots of replies, even though I was also mostly writing to women who were far out of my league


Hey dont ever cut yourself short Gentle Giant.
Out of your league? SAys who?
You got to go into this thinking your a primo prospect and it would be to there advantage to go out with YOU!!!!

I see all kinds of gorgious women with really nothing special guys.
Some of these ( out of league ) women dont get asked out much because everybody thinks they are untouchable , so finally some guy asked them out and presto!!

Point is write to all the women your interested in and DONT think these girls are out of your league unless they are like 18 and your 50 something then maybe ya the age thing. Still though thats possible.
Jerry


Posted by: GentleGiant

Thanks for the ego boost; though I am still going to get suss when a 21 year old writes to me ( happened again this week).
I am currently writing to a gorgeous 26 y/o Ukrainian girl, and I am not really sure if she is too young for me; I know they have a different view on a man's age over there because I had a woman in her mid thirty's reject me as too young, but 16 years difference is pushing it.
We do at least share a love of ScFi and similar taste in films.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGiant2
Thanks for the ego boost; though I am still going to get suss when a 21 year old writes to me ( happened again this week).
I am currently writing to a gorgeous 26 y/o Ukrainian girl, and I am not really sure if she is too young for me; I know they have a different view on a man's age over there because I had a woman in her mid thirty's reject me as too young, but 16 years difference is pushing it.
We do at least share a love of ScFi and similar taste in films.

16 years difference can be done, that would make you 42. I would say no problem to this since you are both still in your prime. Yes 21 is probably a scammer or she didn't realize the age difference. I've had women write to me that were much younger and I asked them about the age difference and I never heard from them again.

Jerico is correct, act like your a good catch but don't be cocky about it. I've learned a RW likes a man that can be strong, decisive, and confident. I'm no great catch. I'm an overweight, middle-aged, balding man with health problems and both of the women I've become involved with own their own clothing business and did some modeling in their youth. Needless to say, they are both very attractive and intelligent.

Good luck GG2!


Posted by: GentleGiant

You are good at maths, I can tell you are over 25 !!! most of the people I know who are under 30 cannot add up without use of fingers or a calculator !!!

You give me great hope that I will find someone special.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGiant2
You are good at maths, I can tell you are over 25 !!! most of the people I know who are under 30 cannot add up without use of fingers or a calculator !!!

You give me great hope that I will find someone special.

Glad I could help. Yes math is one of my strong suits. I even did a little algebra tutoring 2 years ago.

If train A left point C at 8:10 PM and train B left point D at 8:20 PM .....


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
Glad I could help. Yes math is one of my strong suits. I even did a little algebra tutoring 2 years ago.

If train A left point C at 8:10 PM and train B left point D at 8:20 PM .....
How long will it take to reach your bride in FSU?
Answer that, Nostradamus!!! LOL


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by GentleGiant2
You are good at maths, I can tell you are over 25 !!! most of the people I know who are under 30 cannot add up without use of fingers or a calculator !!!
Thank goodness base-12 mathematics still has its place... if not, what would I do with the extra fingers and toes?!


Posted by: French_Misha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus
If you really want to know what the RWs say about the AMs and other westerners, it'd be a good idea to learn their language. You'll kill two birds with one stone: be able to communicate with her in her own language (or at least know there is no one saying anything bad about you in your presence, ha ha - that happens), and read their forums.


You are SOOOOOO right. I speak Russian fluently and have read the posts of Russian women living in Europe and North America. It is revealing. Yes, they are interested in money and they certainly do not want to live in a "trailer." Worse, their incessant whining about the Russian Soul and how cold and austere life in the West annoys me to no end. If I was living in another country and complained incessantly, I would simply move back home. What people often forget is that Russians are as ethnocentric and chauvinistic as Americans and many others. They go on ad nauseum as to how richer the Russian language is compared to all others and how they are much more attractive, better dressed, cultured and simply superior to all others.... They of course consider Russian men to be more romantic and passionate than their foreign husbands. Simply put, the myth that is often perpetuated in forums such as these does not necessarily correspond to the reality that you can read in Russian on the Russian forums as women talk frankly to each other in Russian about their lives in the West.


Posted by: Raspberry

The only real problem I have with Elena's is that ladies get on the "unavailable, out of town, etc." response, for long periods of time.


Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:
Originally Posted by French_Misha
You are SOOOOOO right. I speak Russian fluently and have read the posts of Russian women living in Europe and North America. It is revealing. Yes, they are interested in money and they certainly do not want to live in a "trailer." Worse, their incessant whining about the Russian Soul and how cold and austere life in the West annoys me to no end. If I was living in another country and complained incessantly, I would simply move back home. What people often forget is that Russians are as ethnocentric and chauvinistic as Americans and many others. They go on ad nauseum as to how richer the Russian language is compared to all others and how they are much more attractive, better dressed, cultured and simply superior to all others.... They of course consider Russian men to be more romantic and passionate than their foreign husbands. Simply put, the myth that is often perpetuated in forums such as these does not necessarily correspond to the reality that you can read in Russian on the Russian forums as women talk frankly to each other in Russian about their lives in the West.

So why do you think so many women from the Former Soviet Union (FSU) what to leave their country? They must hear stories about how cold it is and that foreign men are not romantic.


Posted by: French_Misha

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingToRussia
So why do you think so many women from the Former Soviet Union (FSU) what to leave their country? They must hear stories about how cold it is and that foreign men are not romantic.


Define "so many." Again, I am commenting on what I read on the Russian forums that cater specifically to Russian women living overseas. Have you read them? Also, it is a myth that there are so many women that want to leave. I have heard references to the "200,000" women that want to leave. Even if this number is correct, it is still less than 1% of Russian women. They leave for a number of reasons, including the hope of a richer life, but that does not mean they will be happy when they leave Russia, and that does not mean that they will say good things about their new countries where they live. In my experience, perhaps half will be happy in their new countries, the other half will pine for their homeland.


Posted by: Longfellow

Quote:
Originally Posted by French_Misha
Define "so many." Again, I am commenting on what I read on the Russian forums that cater specifically to Russian women living overseas. Have you read them? Also, it is a myth that there are so many women that want to leave. I have heard references to the "200,000" women that want to leave. Even if this number is correct, it is still less than 1% of Russian women. They leave for a number of reasons, including the hope of a richer life, but that does not mean they will be happy when they leave Russia, and that does not mean that they will say good things about their new countries where they live. In my experience, perhaps half will be happy in their new countries, the other half will pine for their homeland.
That may be true, I do not see anywhere solid evidence of statistics.
But perhaps it makes it all the more important to those of us who seek relationships in East: get to know her and let her get to know us. Leave nothing undiscussed. Consider flaws of our home countries. Expose her to people who have transitioned to life abroad (such as here in this forum).

There is more to having a beautiful flower than plucking it from it's hothouse.
Being prepared to help it thrive and grow is our duty as well.
We all know this is a difficult path. No one wants cut flowers that wilt in a week.

Some of us prepare a place and learn all we can about horticulture in hopes of best ensuring success. That is what this forum is about.

So don't focus an dying flowers... pay attention to how we can do everything possible to succesfully bring those orchids that wish to come out of the greenhouse into a new home, and help them bloom in ways never previously imagined.

(If in doubt how this is done, see Kashyar's example... he openly documents it here. It is apparent he only looks to the healthy relationship first... )


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by French_Misha
but that does not mean they will be happy when they leave Russia, and that does not mean that they will say good things about their new countries where they live. In my experience, perhaps half will be happy in their new countries, the other half will pine for their homeland.


I think you are dead on Misha. I know many Russian ladies that are miserable over here. Most won't say anything out of the love for their husbands. But when they get honest, lots of them want to go home or move to Europe.

Money and stuff really can't buy happiness. But some times we have to learn that lesson the hard way.


Posted by: French_Misha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfellow
That may be true, I do not see anywhere solid evidence of statistics.
But perhaps it makes it all the more important to those of us who seek relationships in East: get to know her and let her get to know us. Leave nothing undiscussed. Consider flaws of our home countries. Expose her to people who have transitioned to life abroad (such as here in this forum).

There is more to having a beautiful flower than plucking it from it's hothouse.
Being prepared to help it thrive and grow is our duty as well.
We all know this is a difficult path. No one wants cut flowers that wilt in a week.

Some of us prepare a place and learn all we can about horticulture in hopes of best ensuring success. That is what this forum is about. )


Gardening is not my hobby, so I won't address the horticulture metaphors. But, I will address some of the points you raised.

How many men really know their wives? I am an exception because I speak fluent Russian. Most men who marry Russian wives do not know their language and consequently do not really know her in her language.

Also, can you really discuss everything? Even if she visit you as a tourist for a few weeks, life as a tourist is different from that of an immigrant. The challenges she faces will be proportionally higher. It is hard to understand how she will feel until she has lived it herself.

Also, when it comes to flaws, it is all relative. A flaw to one can be a golder opportunity to another and vice versa. If someone is very negative, even the good things associated with one country can become "flaws." One Russian woman that I know (who is engaged to a Russian immigrant) complained that Canadians are too materialistic, that in Russia people are not as focused on wealth, big cars and big homes. Having spent years in Russia, I had to point out to her that Russians love spending money and most Russians if they had the means would buy big houses and cars in a heartbeat. I did not convince her because she had created an idealized vision of Russia. There is a Russian expression that states that life is better where we aren't living, and Russian women living outside of Russia often fall into this trap. They remember what is good and romanticize what is bad and then whine about it endlessly in Russian with their friends online or in real life :-)

This is not based on a poll or quantitative analysis, but years of experience with dozens of Russian women and speaking to them in their language. Take it for what it is worth, but I just don't buy the myths that are too often propagated in sites such as these.


Posted by: Jerico

Quote:
Russia people are not as focused on wealth, big cars and big homes. Having spent years in Russia, I had to point out to her that Russians love spending money and most Russians if they had the means would buy big houses and cars in a heartbeat.


All the Russian girls I know here in the USA focus on money , hehhe.
I think people are the same everywhere.
Many Ukrainians and Russians here own way bigger houses than myself.
They also are the ones driving the mercedes and BMWs. Also many of my American friends simply dont care what they drive as long as they can tow their ski boats to the lake with it!!!

In fact I have neighbors 2 houses down which my wife thinks are Romanian.
These guys dont seem to have jobs yet are driving only top of the line cars like Lexus,bmw, mercedes and recently now there is a land rover parked there.
So for a Russian girl to say that Canadians are all about money and items is just craz