Kids and Integration. Your advice. - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Kids and Integration. Your advice.
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Posted by: vic2012

The first paperwork is underway and, if all goes according to plan, a fiance visa will materialise in a few weeks.

The preparations for Viktorija and Ilya's arrival in August have begun. But, I have a dilemma about Ilya.

There have been so many posts about how your FSU partner can integrate into a completely different society. But what about the kids?

Ilya is Three and a half years old and, of course, speaks fluent Russian and nothing else. He will step on a plane in Russia and when he gets off, a few hours later, he will find that, EVERYONE will be speaking a weird language. He will be able to communicate with no-one except mum. Television, radio, people in the shops, people in the street and other children will all be speaking jibberish.

So how DO you help your new kids to integrate?

I could get a satelite dish and beam in some Russian programmes. But is that a good idea?

On my last visit I gave him a VTech computer console with a Toy Story learning program, But it's very limited.. great...well done.....you win....etc.

I cound put him in a play school (kindergarten). But at what stage... immediately? in three months? later still?

I know that, once he picks up the language, he'll be fine. But how do we start him off?

Posted by: firemansam

Hey Vic, great post!
I have been giving this some thought too! I know I can tell you a little of Bob's story here although his step-daughter was somewhat older. He enrolled her in a school in Russia before they left, that was an English speaking school. I believe she spent 6 months there before the move to Aus and had a good grasp of the language when she arrived. Even if not the intricacies of the written version, which for school children can be a BIG thing. Imagine trying to do an English exam when you don't fully understand the rules???OMG!
I had issues and I was born and bred!

But back to your query, mate, from where I am sitting.....
I have two young daughters.
Their first words came along at about the one year(ish) mark. They don't really get basic conversation until 2(ish)
But they love stories!
Go and buy the books you would buy for a child. ABC, 1,2,3, Shapes, Colours etc.
Read these to Ilya. Teach him as you would teach a child born in your language.
To send him straight to kindergarten where no-one, not even his friends, understand him and he, them, would be horrific for him. I would give him at least 3-6 months of home English and then see how he is doing. Maybe send him to kindergarten for a few half days. Kids really do need the interaction with other children and once he has some basics under his belt, he will have a ball!! Imagine his excitement as he attends his friends birthday parties at McD's etc. He will fit in fine, but he does need some basics first.

One thing I have seen with kids, they don't hold anything against each other as far as being different goes. Now, as a kid, if you take you take my toy when I wanted it, weather you reaslise it or not, I'm gonna get mad at you!!!

Here are some kids kidergarten rules:
If I like it, it's mine.
If it is in my hand, then it is mine.
If I can take it from you, it's mine.
If I had it a little while ago, its mine.
If it is mine, it must not appear to be yours in any way.
If I am doing or building something, then all the pieces are mine.
If it looks just like mine then it's mine.
If I think it's mine then it is mine.
If it's yours and I steal it then it's mine.

I think as far as beaming in Russian TV goes, I would avoid it. He has his mother (and maybe you?) to speak Russian with when needed, but he needs to get the English down pat asap. His ability to speak the language is the most important thing for you to ensure his future life in your country is all it can be. Down the track, yes, don't deprive him of his history but for the moment, I think you really have to integrate him into your society as quickly as possible, or you will end up with issues in the future.

Here's a few more kids rules for youto consider:
If it is on, I must turn it off.
If it is off, I must turn it on.
If it is folded, I must unfold it.
If it is a liquid, it must be shaken, then spilled.
If it a solid, it must be crumbled, chewed or smeared.
If it is high, it must be reached.
If it is shelved, it must be unshelved.
If it is pointed, it must be run with at top speed.
If it has leaves, they must be picked.
If it is plugged, it must be unplugged.
If it is not trash, it must be thrown away.
If it is in the trash, it must be removed, inspected, and thrown on the floor.
If it is closed, it must be opened.
If it does not open, it must be screamed at.
If it has drawers, they must be rifled.
If it is a pencil, it must write on the refrigerator, monitor, or table.
If it is full, it will be more interesting emptied.
If it is empty, it will be more interesting full.
If it is a pile of dirt, it must be laid upon.
If it is stroller, it must under no circumstances be ridden in without protest. It must be pushed by me instead.
If it has a flat surface, it must be banged upon.
If Mommy's hands are full, I must be carried.
If Mommy is in a hurry and wants to carry me, I must walk alone.
If it is paper, it must be torn.
If it has buttons, they must be pressed.
If the volume is low, it must go high.
If it is toilet paper, it must be unrolled on the floor.
If it is a drawer, it must be pulled upon.
If it is a toothbrush, it must be inserted into my mouth.
If it has a faucet, it must be turned on at full force.
If it is a phone, I must talk to it.
If it is a bug, it must be swallowed.
If it doesn't stay on my spoon, it must be dropped on the floor.
If it is not food, it must be tasted.
If it IS food, it must not be tasted.
If it is dry, it must be made wet with drool, milk, or toilet water.
If it is a carseat, it must be protested with arched back.
If it is Mommy, it must be hugged. I am toddler!

I do have some more thoughts on this subject but I will share them later....

Hope my take on the situation is helpful!
Sam.

Posted by: vic2012

Thanks for your thoughts Sam.

Personally I'm against the satelite idea and I'm for putting him in kindergarten after three months or so.

My daughter is in her 30's and my son is almost 29. You need a long memory to remember their early years. But they both had "3,4,5". A learning product of books, puzzles and cut outs, which was wonderful and informative. I'll look for something similar on the web.

But for now, as far as bringing up kids is concerned, I'm afraid its back to the drawing board!

But, you dont know how lucky I feel, to have this opportunity all over again. And a beautiful and loving wife too.
God's been good to me.

Posted by: skinsfan

Hi Vic..Sam is correct.....your new daughter will pick up English quite easily ... IMO forget the dish, it will be a crutch...i have 2 teenagers from Russia, and they are learning very well...congradulations, and good luck !!

Posted by: Chrismc

Vic

Sam makes some great points, what I would add is you go along to your local Primary School, the school where Ilya would normally attend when he is old enough, have a talk with the headmaster or someone high up and tell them the story, ask their advice and whatr they would do in your position, they handle young kids all their working life, I am of the opinion he will probably pick up English very quickly, but to kick start things off they may be able to give
you some help and advice to start with.

Also you do not want to start him off on the wrong track, get him prepared before he is old enough to start school and you may find he is ahead of other kids his age when he actually gets there.

If they come in August, depending on when his birthday is he would be ready to start probably next year, so you have plenty of time to get him prepared.

Chris

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Hi Vic,

Sam has made some excellent points, funny but still very relevant.

I must admit I haven;t kept up with the Englsih Education systme since I finished my Ed degree in AUs, yes we were given some info on it because the English head hunted us to work there. But i do have some idea on the state of English education in Russia and in Australia for migrants so I will share this info and hopefully you may be able to find some relevance from it.

Many places in Russia have schools or institutions where they teach English, see the British Council website for info for Russia as they have schools throughout Russia and may be able to help out with some info or lend some books to your lovely lady until she leaves Russia to be with you. You could also check the visarus website, the link is in the employment in Russia thread somewhere. It has a list of schools and they may be able to assist you in some way before they leave Russia.

As for when they get to England, I am assuming there is some sort of institution to help migrants learn English. In Australia we have TAFE, I think AMerica has Community colleges. I am unaware of what England has but I am sure there will be something. These places often have classes for not only adults but also kids, they may have a pre-school type class that specialises in infants while providing parents with a means of learning the language also and spending time with others going through the same process.

You say you son and daughter are 29 and 30, do they have kids of their own? If they do spend some time, if they live near you and it is possible, with them and let the kids teach each other. The thing is to do get the basics in before Ilya is 7, if you can do that then you will be OK. He will learn more from people his own age than from an adult trying to baby talk English to him. Kids have such resilience and ability all they really need is guidance.

Hope this helps.

Posted by: vic2012

Thanks all.

Oz,
I am not granddad yet! My daughter has just returned from 18 months in Aus and wants to settle down. So, you never know.

Unfortunately there is nothing around here for learning English. But an hours bus ride into Norwich would probably find a course.

My plan is to have Vicky speak to him in English, which I can back up. He can talk to her in Russian so that, he doesn't feel something awful has happened.

I hope that someone is, or has recently been, in the same situation and can tell me how long they waited before putting their kid in kindergarten.

Obviously, I have about six weeks before this all kicks off. So, I hope to find more info by then.

Posted by: Kathy

Children pick up other languages very quickly. Going to kindergarten and playing with other children in the neighbourhood will be enough to have ilya learn English, as will you speaking English to him. However, I disagree about having your wife speak English to Ilya. He should retain his Russian. It will be an advantage to him in the future.

Posted by: j_c

Vic
My sons is 2 years old now, but last year after spending quite a bit of time in Russia, his language skills where more Russian orientated than english. When he came home , he would undestand what I was saying to him most of the time , but reply in russian.
I think it was just a matter of weeks back in England and this reversed, so I put this down to the three half days a week at nursery mixing with other englsh speaking children and the fantastic carers at the nursery.

Its quite amazing how young children can adapt so easily, yes I realise the situation is different because my son had basic english still rattling around in his head but at three and a half, kids learn at an amazing rate and I think that him spending short periods of time at nursery when he arrives will help familiarise him with the language and intergrate him quicker. Lets be honest playing with lego, cars, drawing and riding bikes is the same all over the world, the kids always get on with it and find a way to communicate!

In my opinion asking Vicky to speak to him in englsh is not a good idea, in our house Irina always speaks to him in Russian , I speak to him in engllsh. I think that you talking to him in English and Vicky explaining what you said in rusian would have more effect, and lets face it , speaking a second language fluently is always an advatntage.

Just some thoughts based on my experience, though may not be right for all!

Regards

JC

Posted by: joelunchbox

Just remember to keep his russian alive.
I went to Japan as a child for 3 years (left when I was in kindergarden). I picked up Japanese from our mamasan. the only shock I remember was later on in life I realized that I USED TO speak Japanese! But no one had thought to keep my language skills up and so now, I can only say hello, goodbye, thank you, all those normal things...

I do believe in immersion but common sense says that school would be less traumatic with a working amount of english.

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic2012

The first paperwork is underway and, if all goes according to plan, a fiance visa will materialise in a few weeks.

The preparations for Viktorija and Ilya's arrival in August have begun. But, I have a dilemma about Ilya.

There have been so many posts about how your FSU partner can integrate into a completely different society. But what about the kids?

Ilya is Three and a half years old and, of course, speaks fluent Russian and nothing else. He will step on a plane in Russia and when he gets off, a few hours later, he will find that, EVERYONE will be speaking a weird language. He will be able to communicate with no-one except mum. Television, radio, people in the shops, people in the street and other children will all be speaking jibberish.

So how DO you help your new kids to integrate?

I could get a satelite dish and beam in some Russian programmes. But is that a good idea?

On my last visit I gave him a VTech computer console with a Toy Story learning program, But it's very limited.. great...well done.....you win....etc.

I cound put him in a play school (kindergarten). But at what stage... immediately? in three months? later still?

I know that, once he picks up the language, he'll be fine. But how do we start him off?

The kid will have a far less difficult time than an adult with the language and cultural differences. Your stepson will probably pick up english just by watching the cartoons lol

Posted by: GREGK

Kids that age have a remarkable ability to learn new languages. Between interacting with other kids, television, and the use of the English language in your home I think you will be surprised how fast he picks it up.

Posted by: vic2012

Now that this thread's been resurrected, I can bring it up to date.

Everything is still on course for August (3rd to 4th week)

Ilya will be accepted in the local primary school (nursery class) in September (part time if we want). It is a year early, but he is classed as having "learning difficulties"! Well I'm not complaining. Its like kindergarten, only it's free!

When I said that Viktorija would speak English to him. I didn't mean all the time. It will be bad enough for him that, nobody else will speak to him in Russian. And, shes a Russian mum, so she will never give up talking to him in their mother tongue.

Posted by: solnyshko

I'd be more concerned about keeping his Russian alive.All my friends' kids who were brought over here before their 10-12yo speak broken Russian or with English accent

Posted by: skinsfan

It is a funny thing about kids...my teenage daughter is picking up spanish as well as English from school....i have had hispanic employee's for years, and my daughter now knows more spanish than me.....all will be okay !!

Posted by: markgm

To give you an example guys my girls sisters 6 year old who lives here in Aus was speaking English within the first month then after three months i could sit down with him and talk with him like any other 6 year old and he even now has an Aussie accent.

He's been in school here now for 2 years and he not only speaks fluent English with no accent but his mother tongue as well with no accent.

Posted by: ConnerVT

In two years, your problem won't be worrying if they will understand English. The trouble will be getting them to continue to learn Russian.

A 3 1/2 y.o. does not speak fluent Russian. Compared to you, maybe. But certainly not fluently. Do you know any 3 1/2 y.o. that speaks fluent English?

Posted by: vic2012

I did mean fluent, not in its meaning as articulate, but in its dictonary meaning as easy, flowing, confident, assured & effortless.

He can talk the hind legs off a donkey!

And, of course, he will continue to speak Russian.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic2012

I did mean fluent, not in its meaning as articulate, but in its dictonary meaning as easy, flowing, confident, assured & effortless.

He can talk the hind legs off a donkey!

And, of course, he will continue to speak Russian.

Don't be so confident in this.

My son loves to talk. But his progress in Russian is stunted, especially compared with his progress in English. And pulling teeth is easier to do, than to get him interested in advancing his Russian language skills.

The reason children learn language is to communicate. They want to talk (and play) with other kids. They want to understand the cartoons. They want to exchange wisdom about the latest Nintendo game. If they are in the US (or UK), English is the language they will need to learn. And quickly they will.

Russian is the language that (in all likelihood) the only person whom will speak it to them is Momma. Now, she's a VERY important person in his/her life. But they will quickly learn that Momma will also speak English to them (as will you, of course). Russian will only make up a small part of their speaking (and listening) each day.

As time progresses, The English skills move forward very quickly. Russian skills, however, will not advance (without serious intervention). Trust me, this is one of the important issues in our household.

Posted by: so cal rick

Common Lad ...."Git with it"

How did my Grandpa function when he arrived from Germany in ...what 1918/

The youngster will do just fine ...as long as you do your part. he has a mother to translate, you can start with home language classes. Forget about the Russian television, most of that mass media crap is just that..crap.

Grab your self up by the boot straps and be the man of the house and provide what is needed.

Mostly,... that will be compassion. ....love conquers ALL.

think about all that came before?

You will do just fine...but remember to be assertive, and chart the course.

Youngsters pick up quick, ...a trip to the zoo is the same in any language.

get my drift???

Have confidence in "YOUR" ability....they will be lookin at you for guidence.

just do as good as you can and all will be just fine.

PS...plane trip will be "way" longer than a few hours.....best to have a crock pot of roast beef and potatos, and carrots at the ready when they arrive.good food is the universal language...stay away from "American" fast food trash.....stick to honest home cooked meals....run a honest family,...trust in "GOD" and you will be successful.

So Cal Rick

Posted by: j_c

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnerVT

I agree, I want my son to grow up fluent in both languages. We do our best to ensure he gets enough Russian material whilst at home , books, music CD's, we have russian TV, always buy russian DVD cartoons and we have a magentic russian alphabet on our fridge with pictures below each of the letters. I think he currently knows more letters in Russian than English.

Another great idea is those books "my first thousand words" , the ones we've got have scenes like the zoo, with all the animals, the park with children playing all differnt types of sports and we sit down with him and go through all the words, I'll ask him to find something in english and then Irina in Russian. He's now pretty good and understand both the english and russian!

I think you as parents have to make the effort and make it interesting to them, but hey, he is only 2 , and I'm sure it might not be as easy when he's older!
Regards

JC