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Putin offers incentive for Russian women to have Children

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Posted by: Spakoyna

My wife showed this article to me...it is in Russian. http://www.newsru.com/russia/10may2006/putin10.html

Beginning in 2007 Putin is offering women who have a 2nd child 250,000 Rubles. He is very concerned about Russia's declining population and ladies leaving Russia. It is a very interesting read and also addresses spousal abuse, children in orphanages,etc.Will this effect ladies attitudes about leaving Russia?

Here is the article poorly translated by prompt:

In the Marble hall of the Kremlin the president of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin on May, 10 at 12:00 has announced the annual message to Federal Assembly. It already his seventh message, and the third - in the second term of stay in the rank of the president. In speech which was prolonged about an hour, the president has paid special attention to two problems - to family and a demography, and also defensibility of the country and its army.
Earlier Vladimir Putin began the messages with economic reviews. This time the president began from social questions. As marked many analytics, the present message finishes some kind of the trilogy formulating a political rate of Russia what it is seen by president Putin.
In the beginning of performance the president has noted present problems of Russia - corruption, financial instability and necessity of integration into economic. Then it has passed to problems of family which has named base, and has called to restore traditional values of the careful attitude to family and the native center.
" Present and the previous messages - programs not for a year, and for decades, in the present program vision, what place of Russia in the international division of labour is stated, as she will solve a demographic problem how to develop its armed forces ", Putin has told.
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- Putin has promised " to attack callouses " that who receives illegal benefit
- Putin has suggested to stimulate birth rate with 250 000 roubles
- To stimulate adoptions it is solved by monthly payments
- The message to regions about нацпроектах: show independence
- About army: it is necessary to be able to answer calls, " comrade the wolf knows, whom to eat "
- By 2008 2/3 staff ВС the Russian Federation will be professional
- The Russian Federation will continue to develop attitudes from EU, the USA, China, India
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Among working Russian politicians Putin's present message has caused enthusiastic reaction. Mayor of Moscow Jury Luzhkov has named his "amazing" and "very business". The governor of Krasnodar territory Alexander Tkachev, making comments on the message, has told: " This powerful on the посылу the message ". Policies have noted emotional heat of the message which " takes for soul ".
Former counselor Vladimir Putin Andrey Illarionov was more skeptical in the estimations. In his opinion, the message of the president promulgated on May, 10 is called " to make possible and to prove necessity of militarization of a life inside the country ". Besides as he said, in the message a defence cost of the country, and it " either nonsense, or treachery have been essentially underestimated; either absence профпригодности, or change ".
Putin has promised " to attack callouses " that who receives illegal benefit
The president of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin ascertained, that in Russia the low level of trust of citizens to separate institutes of the government and large business " is kept ". Acting with the message, it has emphasized, that it - " one of essential features of our internal political life ".
Some representatives of the government and business-community, neglecting norms of the law and morals, were enriched due to the majority of citizens, the president has declared.
" Certainly, we also shall aspire henceforth to lifting prestige of public service, we shall support the Russian business, but also the businessman with a milliard condition, and the official of any rank, should know, that the state will carelessly not look at their activity if they take illegal benefit from special attitudes with each other ", - Putin has told.
Quoting 32-nd president of the USA of Franklin Roosevelt, Putin has promised " to attack callouses " that who tries to reach illegal benefit due to a great bulk of the population.
" The social responsibility should be a basis of activity and officials, and representatives of business, and they should remember, that a source of well-being and prosperity of Russia is people ", - the president has declared.
" I speak about it because despite of undertaken efforts, we till now did not manage to remove one of the serious obstacles on a way of our development - corruption ", - Putin has complained.
At the same time, the president has noted, that in the performance of the offers contained in the message of last year, a number of the laws improving political system has been accepted.
Putin about the most important: about love, women and children how to stimulate birth rate
Further, addressing to the chapter of Ministry of Defence of Russia to Sergey Ivanov, president Vladimir Putin has suggested to talk about the most important: about love, women and children.
Predictably, the president in the message has named a problem of a demography the acute problem of Russia. Annually Russians there is less almost on 700 thousand person. On data *осстата, in 2005 the population of Russia was reduced on 680 thousand person. For December, 1, 2005 the population has made 142 million 800 thousand person.
The problem of low birth rate in Russia cannot be solved, not having changed the attitude of people to family and its values, president Vladimir Putin is confident. " We should restore ancient careful attitudes to family and the native center ", - it has noted.
The president has called to carry out an effective migratory policy, to stimulate inflow of migration to Russia: " It is necessary to stimulate inflow to Russia people qualified and legislative ".
But the head of the state has emphasized, that " no measures in the field of migration will allow to solve a problem without increase in birth rate. " The president counts the Mainest component of a demographic policy effective support of motherhood and the childhood.
" Even small growth of birth rate testifies to positive changes in our society ", - Putin considers. As he said, it is necessary to pay to the given problematics due attention at realization of priority national projects, as today " position critical ". It has called deputies to have it in a kind at discussion of the state budget the next year.
It has offered the program of material stimulation of birth rate, support of young families and the women, wishing to have children to stimulate even a birth of the second child.
Putin suggests to give at disposal of the woman who have given birth to the second child, the base parent capital in size not less than 250 thousand roubles.
" At a birth of the second child the woman quite often loses qualification and gets in dependent, and sometimes, we shall directly tell, humiliating position in family. The state if it really cares of growth of birth rate, is obliged to support the woman made the decision to give birth the second child and to give in its order the primary base parent capital which really would raise its social status ", - the president has told, addressing with the message.
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According to Putin use this capital the woman could for the decision of a housing question - having enclosed money in purchase of habitation with use of the mortgage or other schemes of crediting after achievement by the child of three-year age. " The woman could direct also this money for formation of children or put money in a memory part of own pension ", - the president has told.
Thus Putin has emphasized, that these 250 000 should be indexed annually on inflation.
The president also has suggested to increase cardinally the size of the grant on care of the child till one and a half years - with 700 up to 1500 roubles by the first child, and on the second - up to 3000 roubles monthly.
The president suggests to enter indemnification of expenses for children's preschool education - 20, 50 and 70 % accordingly on the first, second and third child.
It is necessary to increase cost of patrimonial certificates with 2 up to 4 thousand roubles in female consultations, and in maternity hospitals - with 5 up to 7 thousand roubles.
The program of stimulation of birth rate should be started since January, 1 2007 and should operate within 10 years.
The chapter of the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation Alexey Kudrin, making comments on the message of the president of the Russian Federation to Federal Assembly, has already declared, what for performance of the new program of support of motherhood and the childhood will be allocated30-40?????????????? . These means will be already allocated since 2007, it informed journalists. Deputies and senators suggest "to unpack" for this purpose стабфонд.
To stimulate adoptions also it is offered monthly payments
Putin also has suggested the center to develop together with subjects of Federation the program on material stimulation of the device in the Russian families of children-orphans and children who have stayed without care of parents.
According to the president, in children's homes today is about 200 thousand children, besides that children-orphans actually is greater.
" Foreigners, in my opinion, at us adopt more children, than at us, in own country ", - Putin has noted.
It has suggested to increase twice also payments by the maintenance of the child in family of the protutor and in reception family - up to a level not less than 4 thousand monthly. Simultaneously Putin has suggested to increase essentially wages to the reception parent - from 1-1,5 thousand roubles up to 2,5 thousand roubles monthly, and also to establish a lump sum at all forms of adoption of children at a rate of 8 thousand roubles, that is - the sum equal to the grant at a birth of the child.
The message to regions about нацпроектах: it is necessary to work independently
Acting in the Kremlin with the message to Federal Assembly, Putin has noted great value of national projects in the field of public health services and formations and has called the government and regional authorities is system to work above their modernization.
The national project in the field of public health services, has told the head of the state, is directed on increase of a level of health services of the population, the primary medical sanitary help and preventive maintenance, availability and высокотехнологичности medical institutions.
At the same time Putin has reminded, that " the means allocated for realization of national projects, make only 5-7 percent from volume of state financing of these branches ". In this connection it has emphasized, that " it is necessary for the government, regional authorities, institutions of local government is system to work above modernization of the specified branches and effectively to use significant resources already available here ". " It should provide improvement of quality of services of public health services and formation ", - the president has told.
The president of Russia Vladimir Putin considers necessary to expand powers of regions in the decision of social questions, transfers "Interfax". " It is necessary to continue process of transfer of powers. In particular, it is necessary to transfer regions a part of investment means of the federal budget which inherently finances municipal powers ", - Putin has told. " And for a long time it is time to stop to supervise from Moscow construction of schools, бань and water drains ", - it has added.
According to the president, transfer of powers should provide improvement of quality of services of public health services and formation and at the correct organization will allow to increase considerably the salary of all categories of workers, and not just what receive payment within the framework of priority projects.
The president of the Russian Federation informed, that from this year the most part of charges of the federal budget should be focused on an end result.
" Regional authorities also are obliged to start such work. I specially pay to this attention of regional authorities. The government has made first steps in this direction. In regions almost occurs nothing ", - Putin has emphasized.
About army: it is necessary to be able to answer calls, " comrade the wolf knows, whom to eat "
President Putin has declared, that " in the world the tendency to expansion of disputed space is obvious and, that is the extremely dangerous, his distributions on a zone of our vital interests ".
" Rather significant there is a terrorist threat, and essential additional charging for terrorists, a source of their arms and a field for practical application of forces there are local conflicts frequently on ethnic ground which it is artificial are forced and imposed to the world by extremists of the most different colours ", - it has told on Wednesday. " I know, someone very much would like, that Russia погрязла in these problems and - as consequence - could not solve any of the problems of high-grade development ", - Putin has emphasized.
" It is necessary to realize precisely, that the key responsibility for counteraction to threats, for maintenance of global stability will be born with the conducting world powers possessing the nuclear weapon and powerful levers of military-political influence. Therefore the question of modernization of the Russian army is now the extremely important and really excites the Russian society ", - Putin has told.
" Our defence cost in percentage to gross national product today are comparable, or hardly smaller, than at other nuclear powers - for example, at France or the Great Britain. And in absolute figures they twice less, than at these countries. Also do not go any more in any comparison with charges of the USA. Their military budget in absolute sizes almost in 25 times more, than at Russia ", - has told the head of the state.
" It also refers to in defensive sphere " their house - their fortress ". Good fellows. But it means, as we should build the own house, strong, reliable. Because we see, that in the world occurs.
As they say, " comrade the wolf knows, whom to eat " - eat also listen to nobody ", - the president of the Russian Federation has told.
Putin has named the extremely important a question of modernization of the Russian army. At the moment of reflection of threat on Northern Caucasus in 1999 it was possible to collect an efficient grouping only in 55 thousand person at necessary 65 thousand, the president has reminded.
But now armed forces of the Russian Federation have overcome " a failure of second half 90th years ", their condition and battle readiness qualitatively improves. Having named " inadequate to existing realities " a policy of the state in relation to army the last decade, Putin has reminded, that for the period with 1996 for 2000 has not been incorporated any ship, and on arms it was accepted only 40 units of military technics. Then, Putin has complained, " armies carried out doctrines on cards, the fleet has been chained to coast, aircraft - to air stations ". All this has led to that " in 1999 when there was a necessity to resist to scale aggression of the international terrorism on Northern Caucasus, problems of army were naked to a pain ", transfers ИТА*-TASS.
" The army - 1 million 400 thousand person and to be at war there is nobody ", - the president continued. " Here also sent необстрелянных boys under bullets. Never it I shall forget ", - it has emphasized. Also has added: " an our problem in that it never has not repeated any more ".
Today, according to Putin, " the situation in army qualitatively varies. The modern structure of Armed forces is created. There is a reequipment of army divisions by the new and modernized samples of military technics which will make a basis of system of arms down to 2020 ".
Since this year, according to the Russian head, " mass serial purchases of technics for needs of the Ministry of Defence have begun, has reanimated military shipbuilding. The fighting ships practically all types " are under construction.
In the near future, the president has continued, " the structure of the Navy of Russia will be entered with two new nuclear submarines with the strategic weapon onboard equipped with new rocket complexes "Булава" which together with a complex "Poplar-m" becomes a basis of strategic forces of restraint ". Having emphasized, that " is the first underwater nuclear strategic boats which construction comes to an end in new Russia ", Putin has specified, that " since 1990 we did not build any boat of similar type ". Meanwhile, as he said, "Poplar-m" of mine basing " are already equipped five полков rocket armies of strategic purpose ". Besides Putin has emphasized, " this year in one of rocket divisions will start to act and his mobile variant ".
By 2008 2/3 staff ВС the Russian Federation will be professional
The Russian army by 2008 should become professional more than on 2/3 staff, president Vladimir Putin has declared.
As he said, Russia should have the armed forces capable " to combat in global, regional and if it is required and in several local conflicts ".
" Armed forces should guarantee safety and territorial integrity of Russia at any scripts ", - the president has emphasized.
To a condition of modern Russian army Putin has named one more important requirement " conformity of process of acquisition to the purposes of creation of professional and mobile army ".
It has noted, that within last five years necessary reductions of number of armed forces have been lead.
" Further their finishing up to an optimum level (number) in one million person does not provide special actions on reduction, and should be achieved by natural leaving a part of the officers which has served service life put by the law ", - Putin has declared.
It has emphasized, that reduction will take place only for the account " reduction of the bureaucratic device - fighting divisions will not be reduced in general ".
" All this allows us to reduce service life on an appeal till 12 months ", - Putin has declared.
It also has declared, that considers necessary after translation of parts of constant readiness " on the contract " to develop and since 2009 to begin realization of the program of acquisition on a contract principle of posts of foremen, sergeants, and also crews of the surface ships.
As the president has noted, by 2011 in armed forces of Russia it is supposed to create up to 600 parts of constant alertness. In particular, as he said, " substantial growth of their quantity " in armies of air defence, divisions of communication and radar-tracking investigation is planned
In opinion of the head of the state, " in case of need on any potentially dangerous direction " mobile groupings which skeleton will be made with professional parts of constant alertness " should be concentrated ".
But, as the president has declared, in army it is not enough one administrative measures for improvement of a situation. " Cardinally to correct position, one administrative measures now insufficiently. It is necessary to realize, that the army is a part us, our society, and the service in it is extremely important and necessary for the country, all Russian people ", - the head of the state has told.
" We should be always ready to reflect potential external aggression and certificates of the international terrorism, should be ready to answer on whose that there were attempts of foreign policy pressure upon Russia, including to achieve strengthening own positions at our expense ", - the president has declared.
" It is necessary to tell directly: the our armed forces will be stronger, the will render temptation such pressure upon us less ", - Putin has noted.
The Russian Federation will continue to develop attitudes from EU, the USA, China, India
Russia will continue to develop co-operation from EU, the USA, China, India and other states. Thus the Russian Federation supports that the role of the United Nations in the international affairs remained central.
Putin has confirmed intention of Moscow to develop attitudes with the European Community. " Joint realization of the concept of the general spaces is the important element of all all-European development ", - it, acting with the message has declared today to Federal Assembly. " Our constant dialogue from EU creates favorable conditions for mutually advantageous economic relations and expansions of scientific, humanitarian, other exchanges ", - it has noted.
" Special values for us, as well as for all international system, have attitudes of Russia with the United States of America, with China, India, and also with quickly gaining in strength countries of Asian-Pacific region, Latin America and Africa ", - the president has told. " And we are ready to undertake all new steps for expansion of frameworks and spheres of interaction with these states, and also to strengthen co-operation in maintenance of global and regional stability, to increase volumes of mutual trade, investments, to develop humanitarian communications ", - Putin has added.
Thus Putin has supported strengthening the central role of the United Nations in the international affairs, having recognized, that the Organization needs reform. " In conditions of globalization when the new international architecture is defined, also the role of the United Nations Organization cardinally grows ", - it has told. " It is the most representative and universal world forum and it continues to remain a bearing design of the modern world order ", - the head of the state has emphasized.
" It is obvious, that bases of this world organization were pawned absolutely during other epoch and reform " is certainly necessary for it, - the president has declared. " For Russia actively participating in such work, two moments have basic value: the first - reform should raise efficiency of activity of the United Nations, and the second - reform should receive maximum broad support of members of this organization ", - it has reminded.
" Without the consent in the United Nations it is difficult to provide and the consent in the world ", - Putin considers. " And the system of the organization should become that regulator which will allow to develop in common the new arch corrected behaviour on a world scene, the rules adequate to calls of our time and so necessary today in conditions of globalization ", - it is convinced.


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
To stimulate adoptions also it is offered monthly payments
Putin also has suggested the center to develop together with subjects of Federation the program on material stimulation of the device in the Russian families of children-orphans and children who have stayed without care of parents.
According to the president, in children's homes today is about 200 thousand children, besides that children-orphans actually is greater.
" Foreigners, in my opinion, at us adopt more children, than at us, in own country ", - Putin has noted.


More rhetoric from the totally disingenuous Putin!!!! He doesn't give a crap about orphans in Russia. Never has..never will! And for him to throw out the number 200,000 shows just how out of touch he is. Quadruple that number and you will be getting close.


Posted by: Novosibirsk1

Generally, the number 600,000+ is thrown around alot. God only knows the real answer. The situation is heartbreaking and disgraceful. Health care seems much worse since 1989 also...average life now only 66 years. Vlad, quit yapping and get the hell to work on Russia!


Posted by: JamesB

Hi ,i just returned from Novosibirsk to see my fiance Liuda and to be honest everything just seemed disorganised.I hope things get sorted out there for the sake of the people.


Posted by: searcher

Yes, I hope things get sorted out in Russia.

I hope Putin's words are more than just talk. Many Russians seem to like him and many feel he has made some strides... maybe not enough, I don't know...

I do think it is good that he at least addressed those issues. The women leaving is only a very, very small percentage but perhaps also an indication of the morale of the women and the people.

Russia is a country with a long and interesting history, it has many good things ust as it had bad. I hope that Russia solves many of the problems that seem to persist.

I also hope that there is some economic growth and perhaps that will spur a population growth.


Posted by: Volga Trader

Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher
I do think it is good that he at least addressed those issues. The women leaving is only a very, very small percentage but perhaps also an indication of the morale of the women and the people.

...........................................

I also hope that there is some economic growth and perhaps that will spur a population growth.


Bang on about morale but I think it is already changing and mostly in the last six months. To quote one person about economic catch "It is inevitable"

As for growth, just look at the cranes in any large Russian city. The building trade is out of materials, workers, even transport to move materials. And the women I know think they are going to get a washing machine sometime soon.

But in general, Russia has the best educated poor people in the world. Their education is going to set the limet to their economic growth. In ten years they will be where the UK is now, maybe ahead and with more growth to come. But Cheney and the right wing press (UK's faux gauche Economist included) are so negative English speaking business will lose opportunities.


Posted by: AngryFisherman

Even if Russia will have a substantial economic growth in the coming years, there is no guarantee that more children will be born. Even in Western Europe these numbers are dwindling ... it is really sad to see how people's lives are becoming more centered around materalistic things IMHO.

FisherMan


Posted by: Doug in Devon

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryFisherman
Even if Russia will have a substantial economic growth in the coming years, there is no guarantee that more children will be born. Even in Western Europe these numbers are dwindling ... it is really sad to see how people's lives are becoming more centered around materalistic things IMHO.

FisherMan


I think economic growth would have a positive effect on the birth rate in Russia. In the west we have had 'baby booms' in similar(ish) circumstances.
It's hard to say how long the feel good factor would last mind.
And your right about materialism here, but thankfully many of us don't subscribe.
Doug


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Much of asia is a totally different kettle of fish so I am not sure the baby boom hypothesis is going to work with it. China and India are both rapidly building economies yet both countries are slowing the birth rate down, and before anyone tells me china has a one child policy, that is only for the Han Chinese it is not for everyone. I think Russia's economy is still to jiterish to say what will happen especiually after the oil company fiasco with the state taking control (this is what I heard anyway). Traditionally in the western economies for a baby boom to happen you need jobs and viable jobs at that. We have already read much about the state of kids in russia so theoretically the economy will not have any real effect on the birth rate.


Posted by: Jutman

hi

i also hope its more than took, Putin hits the wall saying its a cultural issue. That the family value has to increase.

Concerning the low birth rate in Western Europe, its cultural issue. In North women getting independent (nothing wrong with that), but the trend is a REEL women has a good job and take of the family as well.

In South its a generation conflict. The 'old' one wanted the wife to go home and take of the house and family. The modern girls, wants family but also a job. Its seems that the new generation of men, will accept that and then the birth rate will go up. But not to 2,00 per women.

So Putin just eed to figure out, how to teach to be family oriented.


Posted by: Cheburashka

If Vlad the impaler really wants to see the birth rate in Russia go up, he should do away with the govt supported free abortions. Many Russian women use that as a type of birth control. It's sad.

He speaks just like a typical politician.


Posted by: Volga Trader

My impression is that women are switching from babies at 18 (my ex girl friend - daughter of director of power company in FSU) to mid to late twenties in the course of 4 or 5 years. So the birth rate may start to rise anyway. Prams seemed more obvious on myu last trip a month ago.


Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volga Trader
Bang on about morale but I think it is already changing and mostly in the last six months. To quote one person about economic catch "It is inevitable"

As for growth, just look at the cranes in any large Russian city. The building trade is out of materials, workers, even transport to move materials. And the women I know think they are going to get a washing machine sometime soon.

But in general, Russia has the best educated poor people in the world. Their education is going to set the limet to their economic growth. In ten years they will be where the UK is now, maybe ahead and with more growth to come. But Cheney and the right wing press (UK's faux gauche Economist included) are so negative English speaking business will lose opportunities.


Interesting about all of these building going up.My dad was telling me last week he seen an add in a local Northren Ontario news paper that Russia was looking for framers,wow,there looking all the way over here.
I will try to find the add and post it some where.

Randy


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

I don't know if this is a valid assumption or not so shoot me down in flames if you wish but remember it is just what I percieve from my travles on the RW websites.

Now when you check out how RWs on a site and you put in the range of ideals you are looking for and you get the search results take a look at how many of these women are divorced. Now I know divorce is prevalent everywhere but I am starting to see 19 year old on these sites that are divorced. Now think about it, if they are getting married at 18 and divorced at 19 they are going to have to be pretty fast workers to have a child in that time. All jokes of 9 months aside for now please.

Now to what I think with all this. These are just young women who want the same life chances as what they hear or see in magazines or on tv. THey may think I could get a job and for the 1st time in my life be independent and not have to look after anyone. So they do want a relationship but they also want to be swcure in themselves as they see what happens to those who have kids young and are divorced young. Yes it is a cultural thing but it is a western cultural thing that is influencing the choices people are making.

I have sort of given up "looking" for an RW as a partner, I figure it will happens if it is meant to. However I chat to many RWs via mesenger and other chats and the common thread they come up with is they dont want to leave Russia, they will if they findsomeone but it isn't a priority, and they want a life before they have a family because things are still tough in Russia. You know these people have memories of the real hard times and they don't want to inflict the hardship they had suffered on their possible kids. They are waiting for Russia to pick up again but they also think it will be a long time before it does. They don't want an economic boom so they can have kids, they want security and then they may have kids.


Posted by: Spakoyna

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0519/...eu.html?ref=aol


Posted by: Jutman

The article Spakoyna posted it good. Its also focus at somethng very important. You can't change a country, by a single social law. Its along term project.
One of the strongest criticism of him, is that he has not paid attention to the social issues. However they can't be dealt with without cleaning up other mess first, which I believe he has.
So instead of being negativ, see the postive in it.

A comment about russia as a future place for finding a partner. Eventually it will fade away. Just rigth after wall, it was Poland it was the main country, soon after the Baltics and now the FSU. So yes, increased life condition and changed society will decrease the interest for marriage as a ticket to a better life.

However love between people will always be there, but the size of the match making will decrease.


Posted by: Volga Trader

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking
.......................... if they are getting married at 18 and divorced at 19 they are going to have to be pretty fast workers to have a child in that time. All jokes of 9 months aside for now please.
...............


I don't think they are getting married at 18 anymore. My ex girlfriend who did is now 42. The young Russian girls I now are deferring marriage and children and this is such a rapid and recent phenomenon that the death of marriage and depopulation of Russia statistics have arisen (as a temporary blip).

I see confidence rising everywhere.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Volga, I honestly don't know if they are or not but it is what I am seing on the RW personals websites. Age 19, marraige status Divorced.


Posted by: Jutman

But not only in Russia..


Posted by: BradIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
If Vlad the impaler

CLEVER!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
do away with the govt supported free abortions. Many Russian women use that as a type of birth control. It's sad.

Incredibly accurate observation, glad you included it in this thread.


Posted by: Jutman

sorry guys

I support Putin at this issue. Its a RIGTH there can't be argued against.


Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jutman
sorry guys

I support Putin at this issue. Its a RIGTH there can't be argued against.
Why are you sorry you have your opinion and you are allowed to express it, I don't see muh of a problem with that. That is until you tell everyone else we can't argue against your opinion and have our own, then you have a problem.


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