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Possible Harassment at the Medical Center?
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Posted by: searcher

Some of this thread is taken from another thread I started.

I am starting this thread because i want to know if others know of women that were incorrectly told they have some medical problem or they were accused of "trying" to hide something.

In particular I am talking about the medical center: International Organization for Migration (known among Russians as MOM).

I felt their behavior/accusations were unprofessional, inappropriate and uncalled for!

My fiance had heard of other women having problems with this facility and Iwanted to see if anyone knew how common this was. If it is happening frequently, then perhaps the embassy should be made aware of this.

Here is what I posted in the other thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myself

My fiance explained what happened to her at the medical center. She was NOT the only woman that was required to undergo more testing.

BEFORE she left Omsk, she and her daughter had COMPLETE medical exams and they were quite extensive! I remember her telling me about the test, etc.

The doctors at MOM were also Russian doctors! So, we can't assume it was because of some difference in education/training (E.g.- American doctors versus Russian doctors).

She wanted to ensure she was in perfect health because she had read about other women having problems at MOM. She assumed it was because of some health issue but now we think that may not be why those women had problems....

She was a bit upset and wrote this in Russian rather than English, so what I post is a machine translation (with a few grammar corrections on my part. I didn't change the context). I felt the comments were inappropriate and after proving that her health is good, we want to launch a formal complaint.

So, here is what she said (excuse the errors):
"The doctor spoke with me so, that I really am ill or have had been ill with a tuberculosis and that I hide this fact!
I am not so stupid (I so much have medical formation) what to confuse doctors, therefore if all is good, we should address with the complaint on MOM!"

She was quite upset and said she had briefly considered just going back to Omsk and staying there, here it is in her (machine translated) words:

"The first idea at me was such on survey [medical exam], that nothing is necessary to me already and never I shall go to America! Since I do not wish to suffer such humiliation more!"

I felt their behavior was inappropriate and maybe the embassy should be aware of this as they may be doing this to other women too.

It is difficult for many women to go to the embassy as many live in cities far from Moscow. It took her 2 days by train.

Her interview was suppose to originally be on May 5th. The medical center wants her to undergo a series of test for 3 days, on May 10th, 11th and 12th and then the results won't be ready UNTIL May 16th!

So, there is also the additional expense of her hotel in Moscow, food, etc.

She has to return home eventually and will leave after the medical exam. She is also worried about her daughter missing so much school.

We decided to reschedule the interview and it is now for July 12th.

Posted by: searcher

If it is true that this is happening frequently, I would like to start a list if anyone wishes to discuss this further or to address the embassy regarding this matter.

Posted by: novotul

This medical exam is supposed to test only for TB, syphilis, and HIV, right? If that is the extent of it, then my fiance was exposed to "unprofessional, inappropriate, uncalled for" behavior, too, it seems to me when she went for her medical exam last summer.

She found the exam rather demeaning -- the staff clearly considered her to be a traitor to her country for getting this examination for a K1 visa. I may be able to post details, but they are rather delicate. Let's just say that in the USA, we'd call the behavior she experienced from an examining doctor as egregious sexual harassment.

I don't know which service she used -- I'll check.

I'm interesting in following this, since we'll do the K1 thing again later this year.

Posted by: searcher

Yes, please find out. PM me if necessary because if this is common then I think the embassy should be made aware of it.

Those people at the medical center make money from this process as we have to pay for the exams.

I think if the embassy revokes their previledges and chooses another facility to do the exams then they will lose a substantial part of their income.

If that is typical of them then we don't need such a place doing any exams. They are not doing us any favors but we are providing them with an income!

Posted by: AkMike

Searcher, Once again is it possible that the Dr's were looking for a "gift". If none were given maybe this is their way of fixing it?

Posted by: searcher

Well, yes, that is possible... I thought about it.... however there are two other clinics that don't behave like that and unfortunately my fiance is now tied-up with this one.

I would prefer that she just go to one of the others but she doesn't want me to incur additional expenses. She feels bad about having to stay longer in Moscow and she feels she needs to complete the exam.

also, if they are looking for a "gift" then that is one more reason why the embassy should hear about them. They are working for the embassy and should be held to the same standards that any embassy employee is subject to, including the refusal to take bribes ("gifts")!

Posted by: Spakoyna

Searcher... My wife went to a different Clinic and was treated very professionally and courteously. Perhaps you should tell your fiance the exam is only $100! (unless inflation has struck again) We had the results the next day.Compare that with how much it is costing to stay in Moscow and now needing to travel back again.

Posted by: searcher

I did mention that to her but she has had a few x-rays and is worried about the effects.

She knows you are only suppose to have a certain amount of exposure per year and that is also one thing that frustrates her.

She is worried about having to repeat this proceedure again with more x-rays.

She doesn't dispute there may be a spot on her lungs but she does worry about having to start over and having to endure additional/more x-rays.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Interesting post searcher, really we should highlight this and look deeper into it, have you checked google and other forums?

Posted by: AkMike

I believe I'd call my local Dr. and ask about the exposure risk. If that sounds like she's below the threshold. Send her to a different clinic or take the x-rays there for a second opinion. IMO this sounds fishy.
Good Luck and tell her we are allconcrned.

Posted by: novotul

AkMike,
It seems to me that Searcher's fiance is from Omsk (right, Searcher?). Our western estimates of "safe" exposure to diagnostic X-rays may not be so relevant in the Russian context objectively and even less relevant to the subjective assessment of Russian women from southern Siberia.

Omsk, like Novosibirsk, is close to Kazakhstan. Novosibirsk, for sure, is downwind from the old Soviet above-ground nuclear test facilities near Semipalatinsk. A lot of radioactive clouds came here and our fiance's (or their parents,but my fiance for sure) were exposed quite a lot of radiation early in life. Will this have effects as they age? Don't know. Would i worry? Yes. Do they worry? I think so.

X-ray machines in the west emit less radiation than they used to -- but why should we believe that this would be the case for some old clinic in Moscow?

This whole business of getting these medical examinations has demeaning elements. Searcher and his intended have gone through a lot of difficulties. She continues to experience them and it must be very, very difficult for her.

Searcher -- don't know which clinic Tatiana used yet -- haven't seen her yet today.

It looks like K1-seekers have adequate grounds to avoid MOM. I will post who we used -- and I'd like posters who have had good experiences to post who they used! (Spakoyna, which clinic did your fiance use?)

Posted by: bobjf

hi sercher
australia embassy only authorises a couple of clinics in a given area.
natasha travelled to novosibirsk for hers,our gov insists on a very complete check up.
she says the clinic she attended was good & she was treated fine
the medical fee is fixed by our government & girls are made aware of this when they receive there go to documents.
you cannot have medical without documents as they have to be filed by the doctor. ie originals sent from embassy to girl
docu, sent to girl is in a sealed kit which must still be sealed when handed to doc,personal details of girl includeing photo & any child will already be filled in & the doctor has to send them to the embassy
test comprised of questionare,blood tests,urine sample,xrays & general physical but no inappropiate tests.
nat did have to return for another xray as hers when declared not clear enough by oz med/dept but the doctor did not recharge her,she only paid the postage.
if there are doctors doing things like i,m hearing then you should report them to your embassy

the clinic in novosibirsk was siberia branch academic medicine & sicence,nat says the place is huge like a small city

Posted by: AkMike

Good thinking Novotul! I hadn't considered the radiation she might already be exposed to. I was just thinking about the regular Doctors office visits.
Maybe the second opinion exam of her xrays maybe in order.
This really sucks! Another monkey wrench tossed in at the last minute..

Posted by: leum

This clinic is used by quite a few embassies in Moscow. I accompanied my fiance when she went for the tests there in Feb. and was interested to see the fees from ten or so different countries and visas posted on a sign on the wall. It's a big operation, and very much set up for this particular purpose. I doubt the doctor was looking for a gift; they deal with too much international officialdom for that to be practical.
My fiance was treated ok there. I wouldn't say well, but typical Russian service. Perhaps it helped that I was with her.

Posted by: waiting123

A quick note, I am not aware of this specific place that the exams are being performed. What I am sure of is that Russia uses an older test procedure (the one we used to utilize, TB Tine) this test can come up positive for various reasons. The most common is that she scratched or rubbed the site of the test.

Another possible explanation, and I am not trying to cover for these guys, the TB Tine will show a positive result if you currently have, or in the past have been exposed to Tuberculosis. TB as you know is an easily treatable condition in todays medicine. I would try to find out more about the other issues from MOM.

Hope this helps.... Hope you the best!!!!!

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leprechaun

Interesting post searcher, really we should highlight this and look deeper into it, have you checked google and other forums?

Thanks guys!

No, I haven't checked google but that is a good idea.

Yes, she is worried about the effects of frequent exposure to the radiation of the x-rays, remember she had a complete exam (including x-rays and various test) while in Omsk.

Her doctors there said she was fine!

As I mentioned earlier, she had heard of other women having problems with MOM but she assumed it was due to thier own medical issues and not an issue with the clinic.

I would like to follow up on this matter one way or another.

Edited to add:
The official name of MOM is International Organization for Migration but the initials in Russian are MOM. I will google that name and see what I find.

Posted by: searcher

Just a quick note...

1) Others may be checking this thread soon.... today she resumed test and said there were at least 30 other women, at her last count, that were sent for the additional test by MOM.

So, I have temporarly "stuck" this thread.

2) No luck with google, it provided a lot of information but not what I needed

3) One person I know told me to confirm that it wasn't her interpretation of the doctors comments but rather a direct accusation, this is what she said:

Note: I corrected her grammar a little and my notes are in brackets -->[]

"Yes the doctor in ???, ALL have been accused of that (who were today here for analyses) that we try to hide this disease or have already been ill. Today everyone were very intelligent people and have been extremely amazed by this application! I as akusher [a type of medical professional] know that tuberculosis is always visible in pictures! [x-rays] Even if it once was!"

And

"Therefore it is impossible to hide anything from doctors! I have told to the doctor in ??? that I know ALL about tuberculosis and I know than can my deceit will end! I sane person and similar acts never shall allow myself!"

She wants to issue a complaint to the dircetor or the facility. I don't know who that is or how to contact them but I told her we should also issue a complaint to the embassy.

I am wondering about the treatment the other women received and told her to direct them here. I would like to know just how common this is, etc.

Posted by: Spakoyna

We used AO Meditsina, telephone (7-095) 250-9186 or 250-8899. Our biggest problem was contacting the clinics! We called all the clinics everyday for nearly a week! I guess we were lucky as this is the 1st clinic we finally reached and made an appointment! The phones were always busy or no one would answer. Never called us back if we left a message. We also had a devil of a time finding the clinic!

Posted by: searcher

Hmmm.... I don't know if an appointment is required.

I spoke to her briefly and she told me that one of the doctors at the hospital she was referred to said that MOM is well known for doing this. They send people there even for something as simple as an unusual curvature of the spine.

She said everyone that was there today was sent there by MOM and the doctor said the other clinics don't do that!

Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

Hmmm.... I don't know if an appointment is required.

I spoke to her briefly and she told me that one of the doctors at the hospital she was referred to said that MOM is well known for doing this. They send people there even for something as simple as an unusual curvature of the spine.

She said everyone that was there today was sent there by MOM and the doctor said the other clinics don't do that!

Hmmmm...perhaps MOM does not require an appointment. The clinic we went did and she had to be their promptly at 8:30 am. Got the tour as she had to go to many different departments.

Posted by: searcher

Here are the clinics approved by the U.S. Embassy:

In Moscow:
International Organization for Migration (Also known as MOM), telephone +7 (495) 797-8723

Filatov Clinic, telephone +7 (495) 423-7780, +8 (902) 671-2964

AO Meditsina, telephone +7 (495) 250-9186 or 250-8899

In Vladivostok:
Children's Hospital no. 1, Vladivostok. Tel. +7 (4232) 40-13-35 or +7 (4232) 45-24-26

Posted by: searcher

Today she completed her test and she passed then with no problems.

She is now on the train headed back to Omsk. However, her results won't be ready (I assume the prepare a letter or packet of documents) until May 16th....

She needs to return home now and she will have to get the results when she returns or by mail if they are willing to send them.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Bless her Searcher, I think you both have had one of the hardest roads so far, just dream of the day that she is yours for keeps.

We do.

Posted by: bobjf

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

Today she completed her test and she passed then with no problems.

She is now on the train headed back to Omsk. However, her results won't be ready (I assume the prepare a letter or packet of documents) until May 16th....

She needs to return home now and she will have to get the results when she returns or by mail if they are willing to send them.

thats great news sercher, a bit of leps luck will have you 2 together soon

Posted by: novotul

OK, it seems that Searcher's fiance is not the only one subjected to inappropriate treatment. MOM has subjected other fiances to harassment going back into last year. (Thanks, Searcher, for responding to my perception.)

How can we determine whether the legal purpose of this examination is solely to determine that an applicant does not have HIV, syphilis, or TB?

How might we go about complaining to the embassy, asking that they direct their clinics to limit examinations to the specific conditions demanded by US law. How might we go about asking that the US behave the way some other western governments behave, and certify more doctors and clinics in additional Russian cities?

A harassing clinic is more free to do so when they can exert monopoly power, and the US embassy confers a monopoly (or oligopoly) to these three Moscow clinics.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by novotul

OK, it seems that Searcher's fiance is not the only one subjected to inappropriate treatment. MOM has subjected other fiances to harassment going back into last year. (Thanks, Searcher, for responding to my perception.)

How can we determine whether the legal purpose of this examination is solely to determine that an applicant does not have HIV, syphilis, or TB?

How might we go about complaining to the embassy, asking that they direct their clinics to limit examinations to the specific conditions demanded by US law. How might we go about asking that the US behave the way some other western governments behave, and certify more doctors and clinics in additional Russian cities?

A harassing clinic is more free to do so when they can exert monopoly power, and the US embassy confers a monopoly (or oligopoly) to these three Moscow clinics.

I think there are some obvious and specific proceedures used in these test.

Somethings are obviously excessive, for example if a physician were to insist upon a physical gynecological exam. In determining the presence of sexually transmitted diseases (STD's) blood test are the determining factor not physical exams.

The embassy should have some criteria and somewhere within the government structure there must be physicians which determine which test are necessary and they would also be familiar with the proceedures.

In knowing those things, they would know what is unnecessary and what is essentially harassment.

Also, by having more clinics authorized by the embassy/U.S. government it would make it easier/more convenient and less expensive for many people involved in this process.

For example, the Australian government has a authorized clinic in Novosibirsk. It is a short trip from Omsk and less expensive than Moscow. My fiance's accomodations would have also been less there considering that she also had to stay longer than anticipated in Moscow. If she had to return to get the results, it would NOT be a 2 day trip (going from Omsk to Moscow) but rather a matter of a few hours (going from Omsk to Novosibirsk).

Since the embassy has the authority to authorize the clinics, I think there should be some director at the embassy that oversees the clinics. That is the person (and perhaps the directors at the clinics also) that we should issue a complaint with. If probable wouldn't be a bad idea to forward a copy of the complaint to the U.S. Department of State, see http://www.state.gov/, since the embassies are under their jurisdiction.

Posted by: searcher

She is now back home in Omsk.

She said the experience was very unpleasant to her.

She wants to complain after she has arrived because someone at the hospital told her other women complain while they were in Russia and someone (presumably M.O.M.) cause complications and problems for them.

She seems a bit bothered by what happened and feels that something should be done about it.

If you are on other sites on the internet, ask aroung, send them here or ask for my email address. I would like to know how many other have experienced this and I think the more complaints they have, the more valid it will be.

Posted by: searcher

She called MOM today and the said her results were ready.

They said she is in perfect health and she could pick up the results at any time.

She also said she was still angry because the doctor at MOM rather glaringly accused her of having tuberculosis and of trying to hide it.

She said after that exchange with him she wondered if her doctor had made a mistake and she was becoming paranoid and began having thoughts that she was possibly ill.

She is angry and can't understand why she was treated that way.

Posted by: Leprechaun

sounds like some kind of scam searcher?

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leprechaun

sounds like some kind of scam searcher?

I'm not sure what to think about it but I don't like what I have heard so far.

Its difficult to prove some things but I think we will issue some type of complaint after she arrives here.

It would be interesting to hear from some of the ladies that have recently undergone an exam at MOM and to hear their opinions.

Posted by: pwise125

The USA embassy in Moscow uses one clinic and it charges about $130+ or did a few years back! As for the sexual thing, just inform your fiancees that the USA embassy does NOT require a gyn exam and that they simply should not permit it! I told my fiancee to tell them she was not going to "take off all your clothes" as she went into the exam room before they even asked. They will comply by doing the minimum tests but maybe you have to insist.

Posted by: jeffs

I�ll have to dissent here. My wife and I were at the MOM clinic on August 9, 2007. If you call in advance you can schedule an appointment and get same day service. (there is still a line, but those who scheduled will be called first). The MOM does initial screenings then you will walk to a hospital (about 10 minutes) for lab work and a chest x-ray. Total cost with immunizations was $110 USD.

There was absolutely no gynecological exam, just routine questions including whether or not she�s ever had an std. pretty standard stuff.

Regarding professionalism? Much more efficient than typical Russian bureaucracy, still don�t expect a warm smile (hey people this is Moscow). There were a few other women there that decided to use MOM because of issues at other clinics. Maybe it�s gotten better. But I�d HIGHLY recommend MOM for processing. Just remember to call in advance (days or weeks) to schedule and show up there about 7am for the 8:30 appointment.

Good Luck

Posted by: OldFlak

It has been a while -- since 2002 -- but we used the American Medical Center in Moscow for the visa exam, and we were truly impressed with it.
Doctors spoke Russian and English and were very professional.
We were staying in Moscow for a few extra days after we did the visa thing, and my lady rubbed a blister on her foot (damn those pointy shoes) which turned into a serious infection affecting her lymph system.
We went to the American Medical Center, and after a very thorough medical exam and tests, the doctor recommended hospitalization for monitoring and IV antibiotics. This Russian doctor was also licensed to practice in Massachusetts.
The center's director came to visit us, and he was a wonderful fellow, very helpful and concerned.
We spent a night in a nearby hospital. The attending physician wanted a consult with the chief of surgery, who was called out around midnight and was dressed in suit and cufflinks (I don't like scrubs).
The state-of-the-art Siemans sonogram was brought to her room for tests, and I was given a full-sized bed and meals along with her.
After two days, she was cleared to check-out, but they advised her not to travel. We had tickets for the U.S., and she was hell-bent to leave with me, as my visa was expiring. So, the doctors gave her vials of the IV antibiotic, then wrote instructions in English and additional paperwork that allowed us to get through German immigration in Frankfurt and have an airport doc administer the drugs.
She had one more dose to get when we got to the states, so I took her to my primary care doc here. He reviewed her records and agreed with me that she had received excellent care.
I have been involved with medical care most of my life -- a medic on rescue choppers in the 60s and I retired as director of PR for several VA medical centers -- and I can tell you that the care she received, the quality of medical equipment, the professionalism of the staffs, and the cleanliness and modernity of the hospital in Moscow -- were absolutely first class.
Now, I know this sort of care is not available to the average Russian, but for us it was outstanding.
I wish I had such fine and friendly facilities here.