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Posted by: rk288

Hello all,

My fiance and her son have been here now since March 21st. I can truthfully say much has been very pleasant but there are issues...

Language and cultural of course...she actively studies English every day using many resources that we both have. However, at the dinner table quite often she and her son speak Russian/Ukrainian and when I ask "What...?", they say "nothing..." and go on talking as if I wasn't there. This is not only at the dinner table but everywhere.

We have had several misunderstandings and early on I began writing her letters using a translator. She absolutely refuses to answer them saying "if you want to write letters go on the internet and write to other women..."

I have offered to find an interpreter to which she again replies "No, I only want to be with and talk to you, no other people...". She doesn't even want to talk to the local Ukrainian Orthodox Priest who speaks no English at all and I told her that.

We go through hills and valleys...to be expected...she is a wonderful cook; uses no recipie books...I can cook too but I usually use recipies...she always enjoys my dinners and has some favorites...when we are on a high point we are really high. Now we are at a low point and I am really low. Tired of being misunderstood...tired of the "I will not write you letters" routine...

Cultural - She says "You are the man, the head of the household, what you say goes...what you want". I am used to discussing options and opinions and last night was pushed to my wits end...

Here's the story...by the way, she's 49 and I'm 55...

For several days we were on one of our highs but it had been a while since we were out alone together. When I got home from work she right away began preparing another excellent dinner. I suggested that we walk to a local restaurant to listen to some live music after dinner. My suggestion was both in Russian and English and I felt confident that I was understood...

It came time to leave and I dressed in my usual jeans and casual attire. She brought out her usual semi-formal attire and I told her "once again" it was not necessary...she has never in her life owned a pair of jeans or sneakers until now...she abruptly replied to me in Russian something about "restaurant" and I, as usual, backed down, smiled, laughed and told her how beautiful she was...

She came downstairs looking great and going on in Russian with some complaints...her son (just 19 on Wednesday, wonderful birthday party...) interrupted her in Russian quite vocally, I did not understand a word of it but he was obviously frustrated with her complaints, grunted at the end of it and that was that...

We got outside where it was about 40 degrees and she immediately said she was cold...obviously she had not understood that I would like to walk to the restaurant...my Russian failed me??? She said she understood all...???

We went back in the house where she had a huge Russian hissy fit, throwing her shoes off onto the floor and storming off to change her clothes. She came back very quickly, ready to go but now I realized from past experience that this was not going to be what I expected for a pleasant walk to listen to music...I am trying to understand...everything is "what you want...shto khochesh" but I know now that anything I want could blow up in my face, and it did...

She was rude, inconsiderate and downright embarassing to me in a place where I am known and often seen...

On the way home she walked very quickly...I asked her why she was angry, she said "I am not angry, I am very happy..." and quickened the pace...I thought about jogging beside her but then just resigned and let her loose me by about 10 or 15 yards. She entered the house and shut the door behind her. I stayed outside for a smoke and to breathe and calm down. It was humiliating...I don't need that in my life...I was promised the opposite before she arrived...

As I am typing this she came in and stood next to me, running her fingers through my hair asking me how I am...she has no idea what I am doing...

I told her in Russian "not bad, how are you?" She answered "well"...I said "you are angry with me and I am angry with you..." in English and she quietly said in English "you don't want to see me? ok, horosho...and walked out of the room...

What's going on here? What's up with the "I will not write you letters..." and the "no interpreters, no other people" thing??? What happens when she gets her green card??? Is she holding out on me??? Is she playing me for a green card???

Her son is relatively good at English having studied it for 12 years in school. He is 10 times faster than me on my computer and I am sure understands more than he lets on...Letterman, Leno and Conan are a bit above his ability but sometimes they loose me too...

As always,

Yours,

Russ

Posted by: searcher

I don't know but I have a few guesses and I hope they are helpful....

I can't excuse her rudeness and won't try to but I think it is a bit of cultural differences and culture shock.

Restaurants in Russia are different than here, they are not as casual in some instances I think with the exception of places which cater to a younger generation.

When you said "restaurant", I *think* she did what she was used to doing in Russia and that is getting dresses up.

As for the letters, they may be a bit of a hassle for her. It may require a lot of work for her to write simple things and I am willing to bet she is not very computer savvy?

I think she prefers verbal communication and would rather try to communicate this way.

It may take time for her to realize that things are more casual here.... its only been a little more than a month.

The good news is that she still shows her affection for you so she is trying in her own way. DON'T IGNORE HER! She may have said "you don't want to see me? ok, horosho" but I am sure she meant quite the opposite!

She probably misses home a bit.... she probably doesn't understand some things ..... and she may not know how to deal with her feelings/adjustment just yet....

If you can talk to her son discreetly, ask him how she feels... Ask him what emotional difficulties she is having.

He may dismiss much of it to her being his mother, an "old" person by his perspective but it may give you some insight into what she is unable to communicate to you.

As for walking to the restaurant... well, I can only guess there too, maybe she is tired of walking and probably did enough of that in her lifetime. She may have expected the night out to be a special event - car and all.

Posted by: rk288

I very much hesitate involving her son in our personal issues as I do my own son who is now 11 years old and is very thrilled about this "new life". The two of them sit at the computer for endless times together and they also play basketball together very frequently...

Her son is rather aloof from me however and I must always approach him for communication and conversation. He is quite willing and eager but he never comes to me for conversation...always me to him...any time I have a request for his help he immediately stops what he is doing and is willing and able...jumps right up...eager to help...

I see you are about to enter into the same situation I am in or at least similar. Of course, I wish you all the best. Perhaps we will compare notes...

We have plans to be married on May 6th but now I am worried about what will happen once things are so finished and permanent...she does quite often complain and object.

I am a positive person...she complains that I laugh "at" her...I explain that I am not laughing at her but I am only smiling at the events that occur in our "adventure together"...it is quite an undertaking after all and we must be "open minded" about it all which she does not seem to understand. "Open Minded" does not translate into Russian correctly..."relax" doesn't work either...

It's late and I work tomorrow.

Thanks again...

Russ

Posted by: AkMike

Usually it gets bad after the wedding. If that happens then what are you going to do?
You need to have an 11th hour talk with her now! Before it's too late.
How long have you known this lady? How much of that time were you actually together? Was she like this prior to coming to the states, I assume on a K-1?

Posted by: bingism

Hi Russ

Hmmmm.... where have I heard this before??? Oh yes, it was from Marina when she was here with me! I won't go into my story, but I can assure you that you are not the first to catch the bad-end of the Russian temperament.

First, I would not be particularly concerned about the talking in Ukrainian / Russian. Speaking a foreign language all day is extremely tiring... I speak reasonably good French, but after a few days of 100% French, I need to take a break and phone a friend (in English). Having to think all the time about what you are saying gives you a headache, causes lethargy and can really get you down. It might be a good idea to talk about this with your fiancee and try to find a compromise, i.e. "I'm very sorry that my Russian is not so good, but I am learning - perhaps you can help me learn better? It would be nice at the dinner table if we try to speak English 4/5 days a week and then we can have 2/3 days a week when I will try to speak only Russian. What do you think???" Shows willing and also it will help you learn a lot quicker (ps. if you learn Russian to the point of being able to understand everything, then you'll feel more secure that there are no secrets....).

With regards the letters / interpreter - would you like it if you had to communicate with your fiancee this way? I wouldn't... Also, she is probably very VERY proud of the fact that she has learnt English and that she studies every day. It's hard and unfortunately, no matter how much work she puts in, it's always going to be a long process. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be... I learnt French from age 9 to age 16 and it's still hard to switch back and forth now (I'm 30 by the way). Personally, if I were you, I'd buy the electronic translator anyway - tell her it's for you and your Russian. I have a sneaky suspiscion it'll get used by both of you!!!

The rudeness.... well, some people are just like that. Also, through the misuderstanding over the dinner and the required dress code, you kinda embarrassed her. One thing I learnt is that if a RW wants to get dressed up, just let her do it. You need to ensure that you have said clearly that "everyone else in the restaurant will be dressed in jeans and snkeakers" but what's it matter if she's gone the extra mile? Certain parts of Russian culture are very dependant on external looks and she'll still be of that mindset. Dressing to the nines and looking seriously good is her safety net. It makes people feel secure, in control and if she looks better than all the rest, you won't look elsewhere!!

The reaction to the misunderstanding is, whilst not particularly excusable, quite understandable. If you ask the question "are you angry?" do not expect to get any other answer than the one you got.... in reality, there was no real reason to ask, since it was bloomin' obvious that you were in the dog-house!! I commend your patience in your reaction - a smoke and a breather.... however, when she came to you, that was time to switch off the pc and talk "I'm sorry if I made you angry, but I do not understand what I did... tell me what I did so that I can try not to do it again....." I am 100% sure that she will know that her behaviour was not appropriate, but have you ever tried to have an argument in a foreign language??? Now, that's got to be hard..... Anyway, you get the jist of where I'm going with this. My advice, never ever tell her that she embarrassed you! This will not go down well and will not be understood - as far as your fiancee will be concerned, feelings between you and her are far more important that what other people think!

The son's reaction to you is pretty normal of any 19 year old. How would you feel if Mum dragged you half way across the World and suddenly you were not the man of the house anymore. Have you tried spending time with him on his own? My old man left my Mum when I was 20 and it took me nearly 10-years to rebuild a bond - he had lost my respect and it took a long time to re-establish it. Now, with someone new, at 20 I would have found almost impossible. Personally, a 19 year old man will not be your stepson until he decides he wants you to be. Start with being mates and work from there. Share the man-of-the house role (maybe 70:30 in your favour) and I'm afraid your going to have to do a few things that 19-year-olds like to do if your going to build the bond.... you may have to have some late nights with "the boys".

Anyway, these are my thoughts (sorry it turned into an essay), but I hope that they will be useful.

Posted by: Ade

Hi Russ,

Sounds like her boy is doing well....you say he's helpful and friendly, but a little distant....I think that's pretty good for a young man (and that's what he is, not a kid) adapting to a different culture and trying to accept a stranger having some measure of authority over his personal life; that won't be easy for him, so it sounds like he's a good young fella, and doing as much as can be expected.

Hope I didn't miss it in there, but are you trying to learn Russian/improving your Russian?...if not, you should, it will help you and show that you're making efforts on all the different levels of your relationship.

It is a little hard to tell - obviously - if your fiance is being rude, or just displaying frustration (at communication problems) in a manner that comes across as rude.

Hey, you aren't kids, so if you think there's something there, keep working at it...a month isn't a long time for her to fully adjust. Good luck,

Ade

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Everyone has given brilliant advice here so I woulduse it as it fits to your situation, which only you will be able to do.

One thing I noticed is that you said she has said you are the man of the house and she wants you to be that way, make the choices and follow through with them. It appears as though you have asked her what was the problem (you were in her mind being the man and trying to find out what was wrong, this is brilliant she wants to know you are interested yet are strong enough to make a good decision based on the info you have). Later, when you are typing out your post no less, she comes to you and gives an opening to you to make a choice to follow through with something you started (i.e. trying to find out what was wrong) or to ignore it and possibly to her mind also ignore her.

Consistancy is the key here, I think so anyway, you have seen how she behaves and what she expects from you, You now need to decide and very quickly it seems if you are able to give her what she expects and it appears needs. You also need to realise she has left everything bar her son behind she is starting a new life and is going to be looking for an awful lot of guidance in her new surrounds. You however are in your own country and community, you quite pointedly made it clear that you have been publicly embarrased by her in YOUR community, if you are finding this hard imagine how she is coping in a very strange environment and using, and as Bing pointed out getting tired from it, a foriegn language almost exclusively apart from when she speaks to her son.

Now I would go to her and talk to her and I wouldn't ignore her openings to talk about issues, no matter how frustrate you feel. Make it known what you feel but also take in what she feels and as a pair of adults come to a workable solution.

Having read through this again it may seem harsh, it is not meant to be.

Posted by: Jill

I agree with the others.

She is acting frustrated because she IS frustrated. She is in a VERY difficult situation right now--a lot of guys don't realize how hard it is on their wives/fiancees to move to a strange country where nothing is familiar, where she has no friends, where she has to speak a foreign language all the time, and is entirely dependent on you for even the smallest things. Even the simple act of going to a restaurant is difficult because she doesn't know what to expect and how to act here (I think Searcher is absolutely right about that one). Of course she's frustrated! Of course she complains! And adjusting to a new country is A LOT different at 49 then it is at 19 (which is why her son seems to be handling better--plus his English is better which makes a huge difference).

It's going take time, patience, and understanding. From both of you.

Have you asked her about her feelings in general? (Not in regards to you, but life in the US). And let her know that you are really listening to her and that her concerns are important to you. Would she like to take English lessons? Driving lessons? I'd also try talking to her son in private--he's probably in the best position to know what's going on with mom.

Posted by: skinsfan

the adjustment to a new country, new language, leaving your family and friends.....it is difficult period.......my wife and children speak Russian to each other,...it is the comfort level for them....but they also speak with me in English...they also are enrolled in an ESL class. i never spent so much time at blockbuster video...we watch films nightly together with English subtitles.....it really helps very much with their learning English......be very patient, try to put yourself in their shoes.......all will be okay in time.....

Posted by: RoninRWP

rk288,

Sorry to posting so late. I don't frequent this forum on a regular basis.

IMO, you are enjoying the pains of how to adjust to a dyed in the wool Soviet RW. At the age of 49 she is as assorbant to a new culture as a 5 lb hardened plate steel is to water. Expect rough seas ahead, however it will not last forever. You have to decide it you want to stick it out or not.

It is obvious that you are going more than half-way in the your own sensibilities, however you are lacking to understand her sensibilities of what is expected in a husband. IMO, it is unlikely that she will come around to understand and accept your expectations of her, so it will be up to you to undersand and accept her view for now if you truly want to save this relationship.

You will have to think like a RM. In part she has already told you what she expects, however you are not getting her hints. Be the man and lead. What you say goes. To these Soviet era RW, more so than the younger RW, confrontations and arguments are part of communicating. You must engage her. The term arguement is in the form of logical discussion. In arguing, you should show that you understand her pain and then take her to relieve her of that for the moment.

When you were writing that last post and she approached you, you could have taken her, yet you are upset so now she is confused and doesn't understand why you don't understand. This is the start of a flat spin to a crash and burn unless you can get that light bulb to light up above your head. Flat spins of these natures are recoverable, however they require counter intuitive timely actions.

She obviously seems to be trying to get along with you, however I can see that the misunderstandings are escalating to mis-trust and confusion and frustration. Got to break the cycle before things get too much worse.

RoninRWP

Posted by: Ms.Smarty Pants

Hello, Rk288!
Your wrote about wedding at the 6th of May. Today is the 10th of May.
I am thinking, english language is not problem at your situation. Misunderstanding here, failure to undrstand one another. There is a lack of love.

I am sorry.