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Hot Russian Brides - Avoid
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Posted by: Allen

Hello to all,

This is my first post (And it might be quite long), and I wanted to let you know how HRB treat their loyal customers. I had used HRB for a few months and spent quite a bit of money. After getting to know a few girls, it seemed that they weren't willing to get serious. So a bit dismayed, I cancelled my account, writing a long note to HRB why I was cancelling. Fast forward a couple months when I check my credit card statement, and I fould that HRB was still charging me a monthly fee. So I write them and ask what is going on, they say they never had record of cancelling, and it was my fault on my end. No fault or accountability on their part. I asked for compensation for their mistake, and they flat refused, saying it was my fault again, why should they do anything? This is a reoccuring theme. So I decided to give it another shot, and try HRB again, stupid me. About a month later, while in chat with a couple girls, they cancel my account with me knowing, so I burned about a 100 or more credits while in bronze chat. Again I write them and it was a miscommunication, again it wasn't their fault, and no compensation. So I joined again (Yeah, I know a gullton for punishement) So again, it happened, my account was cancelled and all credits taken. Again they say, miscommunication, no accountability no fault on their part. Again, I ask for some type of compensation, a couple hundred credits, they say the most they can do is 50, and they are confused why this is such a big deal. I will send anyone who wants to see all the e-mails. And I forgot to mention that sometimes 'Patrick' would take anywhere from 3-7 days to respond to my e-mails, some excuses including that his e-mails were 'blocked' among other excuses. To sum to HRB takes no fault, no accountablility, no customer service. If you want this to happen to you, please feel free to join.

To press on further, I have found that most HRB women aren't serious about meeting someone. I'm in my early 30's, attractive, good job, so I don't think its the looks or personality that was the problem. I always wondered if the girls were paid, or that they were recruited in a different way under the guise of just having fun online with foreign men. This is all speculation, of course, but I would not put it past them.

Overall, I liked Russian women. The are very smart, attractive and have a great sense of humor. They are not desperate and they don't want to be some toy. Their living conditions aren't driving them to search aboard, they are looking for something more than your average Russian man. So my advice to any western man who is looking for a sex slave and a maid, don't bother looking in Russia. And if you are older looking for a young hot russian girl, ask yourself if the same american girl would go for you. That will anwser your question. Thanks for taking the time to read this....

Posted by: Chrismc

Welcome Allen

Well HRB sound like a great company to deal with what a waste of space they seem to be.

Tell me did you ever ring or speak with them directly rather than communicate just by email, I think I would have binned the emails and started calling them long before you finally gave up with them. Sometimes if you take the intiative and try calling you can get further and get somewhere towards a reasonable conclusion, but from what you have told us it sounds like their CS is non existent and they do not want to bother with repeat business so best not to give them any more of your money and unfortunately put it down to experience.

There are plenty of good agencies out there and loads of people at RMP will give you help and advice, so at least something good may come from your experience.

Chris

Posted by: Ms.Smarty Pants

Hello Allen!

You had good experience. Not easy to find true Love. You need to believe and to find what you want, what you need! You can feel your Love!

Posted by: Allen

Chris,

Thanks for the welcome. What other good sites do you recommend? I havent given up hope, but I want to spend my money more wisely this time. I didnt try calling, I dont think I would have got anywhere. Now I tried to get the address and name of the president so I could write a letter to him, but they said that the president doesn't accept letters. What a joke. They have no idea how to run a business, very shortsided.

Posted by: Pin Boy

allen,

sorry to hear about your misadventure. i think you could benefit from some basics on how to make a business complaint.

you don't say in which country the agency is located. if it is in the states, it would have been easy to make a phone call, get the name of the person you spoke with, document information, send registered letters with a return receipt, find out if the agency is a better business bureau member and make a complaint to them...all the usual steps in a formal business complaint.

some more details may get you some appropriate advice here.

if the agency is located in a country of the FSU that would be a different story.

pin boy

Posted by: Raspberry

Speaking of Hot Russian Brides, I was on this one site, and there was one of those co-op ads that said "Hot Russian Brides".....but guess where it went? You ended up on Anastasia Web!

Posted by: Chrismc

I did a search and found this

United States (Customer Service):

c/o Romantic Tours, Inc.

1415 Pinehurst Rd., Suite M

Dunedin, FL34698

(866) 235-2479

Is it the same company?

If they are based in the states I would be on to them straight away, no excuses!!

But I also found this

Philippines (Headquarters):

I-Pay Global Merchant Services, Inc.
U12 Gamma Commercial Complex
#47 Rizal Highway cor. Manila Avenue
Subic Bay Freeport, Philippines

Is this the same company you used Allen?????

Chris

Posted by: Allen

HRB is romantic tours INC. So yes, I was thinking about going to the BBB and filing and also writing a letter to the president, no matter if this flunky told me the president was accepting letters or not. I have a feeling that the president would want to know what type of customer service that they are providing. It has irrated me so much, that I'm willing to go the extra mile. All they had to do was make it right and they refused. It will cost them my business in the long run, and I hope I can steer anyone I can away from them.

What really pushed me over the edge is the total lack of accountablility on their part. It was always 'my fault'. Problems with my system. A bunch of BS. Even if it was my fault, and it wasnt, they should want to make me happy regardless. Its business 101.

Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen

What other good sites do you recommend? I havent given up hope, but I want to spend my money more wisely this time. I didnt try calling, I dont think I would have got anywhere. Now I tried to get the address and name of the president so I could write a letter to him, but they said that the president doesn't accept letters. What a joke. They have no idea how to run a business, very shortsided.

If you wish to file a complaint with the BBB be fore warned that you must pay them a fee to do this. At least in Washington state you must.

As for good sites I have had reasonable good luck with Elanas models but it is a bit costly. I also know 3 Russian girls that have meet there dream man on Meetic.com. Just remember no matter what do not send money.

Posted by: leum

Elena's Models is a good recommendation. Their Ladies Catalogue is a great not-too-expensive option.
Good luck!

Posted by: Pin Boy

allen,

this company is in the states so you should get some satisfaction. go over this lackey's head. hell, find the president's name, call and ask for him by name (first name) like you're his old college buddy (i've pulled that and it worked).

the BBB complaint route will only have an effect (i could be wrong) if the company is a BBB member.

hell i'd even say (in a non threatening way) that i'd be at their offices. did that too once and a guy in texas nearly dropped dead. (i live FAR from texas.) i happen to be visiting a friend there and made my complaint in person. they straightened out the problem in less than ten minutes.

hammer these guys and ask for the stars and maybe you'll get the moon. the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

pin boy

Posted by: mistermopar

Allen,welcome to the RMP.
Sorry to hear about your bad experiance.Sounds like this company is only after the $$$$$ and customer care is out the window.

Allen give this a try, www.freepersonals.ru
I have been comunicating with a great lady from this site.
I think there are others on the RMP that have also met great ladies from this site.Never hurts to look,and best of all...it won't cost you a thing.

Just remember,it dose not matter if its a pay site or free one,there are scammers out there.

Good luck,
Randy

Posted by: searcher

HI Allen,

I'm going to move this thread to the right area of the forum.

Posted by: duplantisjj

This is first post here and I stumbled on this site last week from another forum. Great site!! Lots of good info here,,,I'll spend many hours soaking this up.

I'd like to ad to the avoid Hot Russian Brides post. As I feel they are not playing fair with peoples' emotions. I joined their site about 6 months ago and have occasionally fiddled around with it and didn't really find much there for me until a few months ago. I started corresponding with a really nice lady and was hoping she was real.....I decided I wanted to travel to Vinnitsa this summer to meet her. Well, since HRB no longer does travel assistance or anything else but email and online chats, I decide to email them and be put in contact my ladies' home agency in Vinnitsa so we can arrange a meeting. Guess what? New HRB Policy...... All members are required to have purchased at least 2500 credits before they will allow the member to be put into contact with the ladies parent agency. 2500 credits is roughly $1,000 US dollars just to be put into contact with her agency. Unbelievable!!!

They blame this change on IMBRA because they can no longer make money on travel assistance. I can PM emails from HRB if anyone is interested and have another post on RWG.

I spent weeks trying to ferret her agency info through our emails but HRB cut out anything agency related from her messages to me. I spent weeks going through dozens and dozens of agency websites looking for my lady. You know many Natalia's are in Ukraine?? I looked through thousands of pictures, yes many, many thousands of photos of ladies, some sites have 30,000+ photos. I finally found her yesterday!!! I was a bit excited!! Of course the site I found her on (One In A Million) is not known for being the best site in the world but I now have her postal address and can forward "unfiltered" emails to her for the same price as HRB. I wanted so bad to send my lady flowers for Women's Day but HRB does not do photo confirmation for flower delivery. Sooooo you don't even know if flowers were delivered to your lady, unless she tells you in her "filtered" emails from HRB. I've read that its best to get her address and use a third party flower delivery service,,,,,but of course HRB won't let you have addresses or the agency contact info unless you shuck $1,000. Even with IMBRA in place other agencies are working with the law, not using it for more money against its members.

Had I known about HRB before I started searching for my second half I would have avoided them all together. If you don't REALLY intend to visit FSU and you just wanna play chat with HOT 18 yr models, then HRB is for you. If wanna get serious then find another agency that is FULL SERVICE.

Johnny

Posted by: mistermopar

Johnny,hi,welcome to the RMP...wow we are getting alot of new people here latly,thats great.

Is she aloud to give you her phone number through the filtered mail,if she can ,call her.If she can't give you that,and her home agency is in Vinnitsa,try doing a search (yandex.ru,google,yahoo)and see what agencies pop up for there and then contact them directly and see if she is with them.

Hope this helps,good luck.

Randy

Posted by: Allen

I tried a few free sites before I went to HRB, and all I ran into was scammers, maybe bad luck, maybe not. And I knew never to send money, so I didnt lose anything except time and I took some satisfaction in that I wasted their time for nothing. I'm sure its a pure numbers game for them. But on sites like HRB (I don't know how other pay sites work) it only benefits them to have the girls write and chat with as many guys as possibly, and never meet them. Soon as that happens, less money for them. So I always wondered if the girls were paid, or told to chat up as many as possible and never be serious. Just a big scam or a bigger level. If thats the case I lost a grand or so. Again pure speculation, but I felt that the girls were never that serious about meeting men, especially the ones under 25. I did get phone numbers and e-mail addresses outside of HRB by usurping their control over the women, so I have stayed in contact with a few. I have been told they bully the girls into making sure they don't break the rules, but I still managed to do that. It is rather sad that they aren't truly interested in match making, because they could make more money with better intentions. My 2 cents anyway.

Posted by: Rainbow

Quote:

Originally Posted by leum

Elena's Models is a good recommendation. Their Ladies Catalogue is a great not-too-expensive option.
Good luck!

I am not sure if Elenas Models is reputable, as in they dont run checks on the ladies. (an aqaintence of mine was scammed) I dont think using agencies is a very good idea, I think if you enjoy the FSU culture and are interested in their history and future its better to visit the countries, and meet women along the way.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Fast forward a couple months when I check my credit card statement, and I fould that HRB was still charging me a monthly fee. So I write them and ask what is going on, they say they never had record of cancelling, and it was my fault on my end. No fault or accountability on their part. I asked for compensation for their mistake, and they flat refused, saying it was my fault again, why should they do anything?

many business outfits into rebilling use this (fraudulent) method.
That is, there is some small print somewhere about how to stop the rebilling...usually visiting websites, logging in to special pages...short most forget to do it or are never told so, and you pay.
can't you just query the charge?

It happened to me some business i paid with credit card (hear this) would charge ONE YEAR LATER the same creditcard for a total of $1200 for never made purchases. Funny, as i had discontinued that card # MONTHS EARLIER, yet my equally dodgy card institution allowed the transaction.
The same day they "cancelled" all those fake transactions (again: on a VOIDED card # ) yet i still had to pocket a loss of 60$.
Police time.
It seems i wasn't alone as the judge wrote back ( it happens very rarely ) for me to go to the police again.
They got cornered for fraud...and have since then updated their policies (the biggest card company here, handling about 2/3 of ALL creditcards issued in Italy ).
Once i called their customer service to get $ back, they gave me the run around, telling it was my fault & they were right...just to stop dead once i mentioned i had a few papers with the "police" word on it.
These things happens...

Posted by: Chrismc

I wouldn't use any agency that does not allow me to contact the ladyb directly, why use them there are plenty out there that allow this with no hassle whatsoever.

Posted by: Patrick H

Hello everyone, I'm the so-called lackey, flunky, web administrator of HRB. I�d like to address this particular concern as it is an unfortunate case of complete and total miscommunication. Allen came to our service and used it quite extensively for some time. According to him, he canceled his account in November. Strangely enough, he used the site consistently as a Platinum Member until February of this year, when I assume he looked at his credit card bill for the first time. What I told him, and what I can produce in its original copy, is that nowhere in our system did we show the cancellation taking place. I never claimed that he was a liar, nor did I claim that it was his fault. In response to his demand that I "make this right!" I canceled his membership and refunded whatever credits he had left on his profile. Apparently I made the wrong assumption about what "making it right" meant and canceled his account against his will. To sum it up: man sends angry email inquiring why his account was not canceled, then demands to "make it right". I cancel and refund but have apparently misinterpreted what �making it right� means. I apologized profusely but apparently that was not good enough.

After reading this thread and the false information in it, I did a little more investigating as to what happened. Allen canceled his account not in November but on the 22nd of July. I had to do some digging but we�ve actually got the process down keystroke for keystroke. I�m talking about millions of keystrokes here. In November he purchased another membership, which he never canceled and used during every single day during that month all the way to March of 2006. More to the point, he happily used the system that was clearly labeled PLATINUM ACCOUNT for three months before ever bringing this to my attention. At no time did I �flatly refuse� compensation. The only thing I refused was compensation for 200 credits, which we would have given had he actually sustained a financial loss of some kind. Instead, I offered 50 credits for the trouble and gave my sincerest apologies. I even gave Allen several chances to call me directly, as I felt our email miscommunication was exacerbating the situation. As of today, still not one single phone call.

Let me make this abundantly clear, if you cancel- it's processed IMMEDIATELY. I even go so far as to go through the cancellation notices every morning and process all refunds first before anything else. In a few small cases we have had issues where certain member's computers time out during the cancellation process, they lose the page, and the process is not complete. The moment they let us know that they're being billed, we instantly cancel their membership and make the appropriate refunds.

What followed was an interesting back and forth where Allen then demanded 200 free credits because of the trouble this error had caused. Unfortunately on my side, I could show no identifiable error and was only authorized to give out 50 credits in a situation like this. All money had been refunded and membership canceled.

Allen, your accusation that our site is a scam is completely unfounded. Its also surprising that only after you couldn't get 200 free credits, you sudden found a world of scamming lurking on our system. I would like for you to produce one single shred of evidence to this point. All we do is charge a monthly membership fee and credits for chatting and emails. This is not a scam. We don�t hide any secret charges, nor do we charge you for services you don�t actively use yourself. In regards to our policies, we even go so far as to make sure that you have to sign the Terms and Conditions every time you log in. This gives everyone a chance to read on what we�re about and what you can and can�t do on the site.

This word "scammer" is thrown around so much anymore that it has essentially lost all meaning. If a girl isn't interested and is pretty, she's a scammer. If she loses interest, it must be a scam. If she doesn't want to give out her home address, oh it must be a scam. Seriously, please show me your proof and I will remove the girl and her agency immediately. Also, the idea that we "bully" the ladies to follow the site rules is totally offensive and incorrect. We put the rules in place to avoid situations where members could get scammed. Namely, the asking for money and anything else that would lead to a member losing his shirt with the lady. If a woman asks for money (which for some reason men are always willing to do), we remove her immediately, sometimes the agency too. If you ever had a problem with our rules, all you had to do was use another site. Plain and simple.

I really wish that this situation could have been handled differently but unfortunately you asked for something that I could not provide. When I tried to help you stonewalled me and threatened to put my name on the internet. Look, I'm here to help all of our customers and in my travels I hear a lot of conflicting information. It's because of this experience that I have to treat each case based on past experiences and then investigate accordingly. In this case it was my own experience telling me that despite the fact that Allen was sure he canceled in November, he could have mixed up his dates. It happens to all of us. The only reason I could not give out the 200 credits was because during Mr. Allen's time after November, he had no problem using the Platinum Membership's discounts for chat, nor did he manage to notice that his account was clearly labeled as PLATINUM across the top of the menu. In a sense, he was concerned about the lack of cancellation but not the fact that he got a lot of service for the cheapest possible prices on our site.

Raspberry, it should be noted that the word "Hot Russian Brides" that you clicked on was a usage of the phrase, not our site's name. AW and other sites have been doing this for some time and there's unfortunately no recourse for us to take. We can't patent a phrase that's not very orthodox but is common. We have absolutely no affiliation with AW or any other site.

I�m truly sorry that we couldn�t help further in this situation. In the end I wish you all the best of luck in your future search for the woman of your dreams. Thanks for the opportunity to defend my integrity and the integrity of our company. I offer anyone who has questions to contact me directly on the site and I�ll answer them to the very best of my abilities.

Thanks again.

Posted by: Allen

Sorry Patrick,

But you are wrong again. Keep putting up your misinformation. I cancelled in July, but I also cancelled in December as well. And I did cancel, Patrick. Do you think I would be going to these extremes if I didn't? And isn't that monetary loss? Should I have to constantly check to make sure that it was cancelled? And why should I call Patrick, are you going to use your magic words and suddenly make me happy? I have seem how you handle clients with borderline unprofessional behavior, taking things personally. Let me clue you in, it shouldn't be personal for you, it's your job. I didn't 'mix up' my dates. I'm not an idiot. I know what I did. Again, with the total lack of accountablility. Youre never at fault, Patrick, youre the best!

And whats to say your site isn't a scam, Patrick? I can speculate. You have no policing. I go off what I see, what I experience and common sense. You put as many blocks in place to not have a couple get together, then descibe yourself as a match making company, please. What a joke. Total restrictions on communications, then say that you are looking out for peoples best interest, again, please. Go sell something else.

From what I have read from others, your site has a bad reputation. And it's quite insulting that you invite me back. Are you kidding, after pretty much stealing my money, then coming here and lying to them, you expect me to come back. That is quite funny. Take a business 101 class, Patrick. If you would have made me happy, FOR YOUR MISTAKES OR YOUR SITES MISTAKES, everything would have gone away. Instead, you are putting out fires, spending more time, and hopefully more people wont go to your site because of my experience with your site. I'm sure many more people have experienced the same.

Ask yourself this question Patrick. Why would I be spending this much time, if what I said wasn't true? Would you be going to this extremes if you weren't? Of course not. Keep putting up your BS, I'm sure its coming.

Posted by: Patrick H

Allen,

You still have not addressed the information that I gave you, which shows in detail that you never canceled in November and used the Platinum Service, allowing the payments to go through, without saying a word for three months. Please, inform us as to why you were so sure you canceled yet still used the site. If I canceled a magazine subscription and still received numerous issues, I'd contact the company to find out what was going wrong. Not three months later but right then.

You can say what you want about our correspondence policies. I've stated countless times that if you want to purchase addresses, there are plenty of agencies who will give you that service. I know you'll never believe this but the greater part of ladies using our site have expressed relief that we're following IMBRA guidelines.

Why are you spending this much time on this issue? Honestly I'm not really sure. You seem to be very upset at this incident yet have taken no time to call me personally to discuss it. We gave you a complete refund on your membership and remaining credits but that still was not enough. Instead you demand things that I cannot provide, threaten me, and then skirt past the possibility that you could have made a mistake. Could it be that you were wrong? Why is that not a valid possibility? We all make mistakes and up until I saw the hard data I assumed that the mistake was mine. In the end it turns out it wasn't my mistake, nor the system's.

I'd also like for you to show how our site has more complaints and a worse reputation than any other on the internet. Please, show me. You can hurl generalizations and conjecture around all day but in the end you're still just venting. The only other customer who has posted on this thread is duplantisjj, who is mad because we require a financial commitment before we put members in touch with the lady's agency. That is merely our policy and if you don't agree to it, you don't have to use the site. I have addressed his concerns in triplicate on other forums yet neither of you has even attempted to contact me personally.

Again, I offer my apologies about this whole situation but there has to be some responsibility on the part of the customer to read their bank statement and pay attention to what they're paying for. I checked, double-checked, and triple-checked everything to make sure that the cancellation page was working and it is. I'm sorry that we can't come to an agreement on that but it's where the issue stands.

Incidentally, I'm not taking this personally at all. I just have a duty to correct false claims when they are leveled at our company. I offered compensation but you stated that it was not enough. That was all I could offer and I'm sorry if that does not meet your needs.

I hope that in the future you have better luck with the process. Thanks again and have a great day.

Posted by: Allen

Patrick wants to talk in facts, here is the facts.

1)I cancelled in July and joined again in October (Or around that time)for a few months.
2)I cancelled again in Late November, writing a detailed message on why I was cancelling, and got comfirmation that it was cancelled.
3)I wrote a couple girls e-mails from november to feb, saying that I was going to be gone, not knowing that the membership was still going and being charged.
4)I looked at my credit card statement and saw that I was being charged, I e-mailed Patrick and asked why it was still being charged, He said I never cancelled. I asked for compensation, he refused.
5)I decided to try again at HRB(Mistake 2), being in chat, my account was cancelled, and credits drained very fast through a different level of chat. Probably around 100 or so. Again I e-mail Patrick for some compensation, again, he refuses.
6) I rejoin again, and again my account is cancelled and all credits refunded, patrick describes everything as miscommunication and offers 50 credits for my trouble.

What is the shocking part, was the total lack of any fault or accountability, and the lack of customer service. They had an unhappy customer, who was not treated like a loyal client. And they had no interest in treating me accordingly. I was treated as if I was trying to get a freebee, or put one over on them. I honestly can say, they have the worst customer service I have ever experienced in my life. And I strongly urge anyone to avoid them at all costs.

And Patrick, if you want to call me, I'll be happy to give you my number.

Posted by: Patrick H

Allen wrote:

"I cancelled in July, but I also cancelled in December as well."

You then write:

"I cancelled again in Late November."

This is exactly what I was referring to. There is no consistency to when you stated you canceled. All I can do is look at the data from the servers in this case and work from there.

Allen, let's not mistake the fact that you used the site and services consistently for 3 months straight, never questioning why your account was clearly labeled Platinum and why your rates had never gone up after canceling. You didn't contact me a week, three weeks, or even a month after canceling. You contacted me almost four months (2/28/06) later.

Allen, your opinion of our customer service is of course, your opinion. Perhaps as you threatened, you should post the emails which show quite clearly that I was trying my best to understand and work with your situation.

Your first email stated:
2/28/2006
I cancelled my membership maybe 2-3 months ago, and I looked at my credit card statement and was surprised to see that I was still getting charged. I wrote a long explaination of why I was cancelling, and thought that was it. Apparently not. Although I have come back and bought credits, I did not renew membership. PLease explain why this as happened, and I want this to be resolved. Thank you.

Here is my exact response:
2/28/2006
Thank you for expressing your concerns. I took a look at your account status and could find no evidence of a cancellation. It may be that when processing this request there was a hiccup on your computer or something
similar. Regardless, I will cancel your Platinum Membership and refund
what is left of the account. If you have any further comments or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks for your time and patience on this issue.

From here it spirals downhill. No matter what, I always tried to keep the whole thing in perspective. The only time I was truly baffled was when you became upset at the refund, as this is what I thought you wanted in the first place. I did not expect that you would want credit compensation for services that you used extensively for a little over three months.

Allen, if you would like to send me your phone number I would be more than happy to contact you personally. You have my email address.

Thanks again.

Posted by: Allen

Patrick,

I dont know the exact date, it was early decemeber, late Nov., you sound like a lawyer, and I didn't use the services 'consistently and extensively ' as you say. Go check your records. It was not that way not all. sparingly , would be a better term. And if you check the records and e-mails, I told the girls I was leaving the site.

After I cancel, should I look to see if there is a membership icon? Do I have to double check everything? If I know now, I certainly would have.

And why would I write that e-mail if it wasn't true, Patrick. If you don't think I'm after a freebee, then what was I doing writing that letter. So its just to entertain myself? Have a few laughs with the PR guy?

There should have been compensation, and everyone would have been happy, but unfortunate for everyone that you have choose this route. Because everyone loses.

Posted by: mistermopar

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

Welcome Allen

Tell me did you ever ring or speak with them directly rather than communicate just by email, I think I would have binned the emails and started calling them long before you finally gave up with them. Sometimes if you take the intiative and try calling you can get further and get somewhere towards a reasonable conclusion.

Chris

Guys - Allen & Patrick

There are always two sides to each argument, I am not taking sides because it really is nothing to do with me, but what I will say is:

Lack of communication usually breeds a disgruntled customer and / or a supplier who is fed up with his customer.

I was the first to post after Allen made his initial post and what I stated above is still true. Both parties could have called the other, if I had been a disgruntled customer I would definately called my supplier. As a business owner myself, if I had a customer who was not happy I would have personaly called him and made sure he was happy, this sometimes means you have to give a little more, but that is the way to keep business and maintain a new stream of satisfied customers.

In this day and age when everything seems to be price driven especially internet based sales and services the ONLY advantage a business has over its competitors is Customer Service!! That is why I do not loose any customers and virtually every new customer I have turns into a regular buyer.

I see faults with both parties here, Allen should have called long before it got to this if he was in the right and Patrick should have called if everything he was doing or had offered was way beyond the bounds of being reasonable.

In my view, both parties at the moment seem like they are stating only the facts that depicts them in the best light. If it was my business I would be on the phone right away to Allen before it does any more harm to my business....but Allen if what Patrick states is correct about dates, the use of their system long after you had cancelled etc etc then you sound as if you are just trying to get out of them what you can by dishonest means, who knows what the real story is here, but if I were you guys I would get together as a mater of urgency because neither of you are coming out of this with your reputations intact.

Sorry if you don't like what I have stated, I am not trying to stir things up, but I have seen many situations like this, it gets no one anywhere, the only thing either gets is more stress and shortens their life expectency....is it all worth it??

Just get on the phone with each other and work it out!!!

Chris

Posted by: Allen

I am a business owner myself, and I always make sure my customer is happy, even if that costs me money in the short term, and even if I'm not at fault. Becuase I know by making that person happy, I'm going to get repeat business and referrals. And make much much more money.

I cancelled around late November period. There records don't show it, but my actions would support that I did. Just by spending the time it has taken me to write Patrick and this board, has probably cost my thousands of dollars in my business, so it's not about the money at all. It's about customer service and doing whats right for your client. This obviously has not been done or I wouldnt be here. A question to all, if I was making all of this up, would I be here making this much of a stink? If I was looking for a freebee, I would have tried, it didnt work and move on. But its about principle, not money. It's about honoring your client and business ethics. If crediting me a month, or a couple hundred credits would make me happy and go away, hello? I'm confused on what is so hard to understand.

Of course, each person is going to put themsleves in the best light. That is only human nature. There is no point of getting on the phone and working it out, it's clear that he thinks I'm trying to work an angle and get a freebee. What would the conversation go? About the same as it is here, no where.

Sure there are faults on my side, I should have been paying closer attention to my charges on my credit card, maybe I could have caught it sooner, but what is amazing to me is their total lack of fault or accountability, from even the possibility that I did cancel. And the actions thereafter.

Posted by: Pin Boy

allen and patrick,

this is certainly a lot of back and forth that may not be resolved here....but it does not diminish the importance of the business at hand - one person hoping that a person will meet a partner and another person operating a succesful and profitable business.

but the question for allen is, if you understood that the agency was not good at/or did not allow people to communicate directly without the agency in the middle, and you did not like this policy, why would you rejoin such an agency?

pin boy

Posted by: mistermopar

I agree with Chris,just get on the phone with each other and work it out!!!
Nothing is happening with the posts yous are writing except saying it is the others fault.
Maybe both should give a little and clear it up now before before things get really nasty.

Thanks

Randy

Posted by: Patrick H

Mistermopar and Pin Boy, and Chris- you are speaking my language. I think that after this lengthy back and forth, both Allen and myself have come away with things to learn. Had I Allen's phone number at the beginning of this situation, things may have been much different. As it stands I think we've all just vented and agreed to disagree on this particular subject.

I apologize for taking up so much space on your thread and appreciate everyone's patience as we worked this out. If anything, I think these forums are great places for people to exchange information and express their concerns. My only concern was that one side was not being represented appropriately and I wanted to remedy that. Again, I appreciate your patience.

Thanks everyone and have a great day.

Posted by: Chrismc

Allen if you are a business owner you are obvioulsy used to buying in products services etc etc as I stated right at the outset why did you never call Patrick to discuss matters???

Patrick if you are running a successful business why did you never have the full contact information of one of your clients and why did you never ask for it in one of your early emails to him???

If ever a problem like this crops up in my business I make sure the customer can call me for FREE whenever he wants to, if I don't have his/her phone number I ask for it and also for a time when it is convenient for my client, for me to call him. I may not be fully happy with what my client is trying to do to me, but I never loose sight of the fact that the customer is always right even when I know full well they are really in the wrong :-)

I will give you an example, yesterday a customer called my company not happy that something was late being delivered (when I say late I mean no more than a day!) He was giving one of my girls a load of grief, I took the phone off her and by the time I had got the guy off the phone he had bought more products from me and paid for them upfront.

It is not rocket science, it is just good old fashioned values and common sense being used and a bit of flattery to a guy who had really called not to resolve a situation but just to chew someones ear off.

Guys as you both state hopefully you have both learned something here, if you have then you will both be wiser and better off for it.

Chris

Posted by: Patrick H

Chrismc,

Thanks for the advice. Honestly I'm always a bit dubious about asking for a member's phone number, as many men don't want to give it out. We require email addresses of customers but in a business like ours it's very hard to get someone to give out their phone number. I'm not sure if you're in America or not but we do have a big problem with telemarketers here. A lot of people, myself included, are hesitant to give out a phone number if it's not absolutely necessary. But as this situation has proven, perhaps it's time to change that policy.

I always ask that if there's any problem or concern with a customer that they call me immediately. It's toll free and you can always call from anywhere in the world. That's one of the reasons I wanted to cease the email correspondences. As we all know, it's very easy to misinterpret words if they are not very carefully written down, especially when someone is upset.

Still, you bring up some valid points that I will take to heart. Thanks again.

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick H

As we all know, it's very easy to misinterpret words if they are not very carefully written down, especially when someone is upset.

Thanks Patrick I try and help where I can......

I agree with what you say above and I understand about the phone numbers, it is the same here in the UK...but there are ways to ask and there are ways not to ask.

If I was running a business like yours, I would certainly have that information from my clients, if you request it from day one and you explain in clear terms why you need it (protection of clients interests etc etc mention you never pass or sell on numbers aswell as email addreses etc) then I am fairly sure the only ones who would not be willing to give it out are those you do not want as customers in the first place. But you then always leave yourself open to possible problems.

You know it is very easy to call people in emails, it is a lot lot harder when you are talking directly to that person on the phone. Not only that, how many people can keep up an argument if you agree with them.....not many and not for long, a good salesman can get round a disgruntled customer very easily, but it is much harder in a email!

We are all here to learn that is the main thing, none of us know everything, although some would have you believe they do!!

Goodluck
Chris

Posted by: Cheburashka

Sheesh! I can't believe this thread. Allen, c'mon dude be reasonable. If you are on his site chatting with the ladies you have to pay the piper. Spending months on his site to tell everyone you are leaving just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm afraid I have to side with Patrick on this one. And I have a prediction that this thread will probably be locked down soon.

Let each reader make up his own mind about the validity of Patrick's site. And as the old saying goes "Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware).

Cheb

Posted by: duplantisjj

Thanks for the welcome Randy. I'm getting so educated from info from this site.

I just wanted to reiterate so everyone knows that HRB has a policy of now charging members 2500 credits to be into contact with their lady outside of HRB. That's roughly $1,000 US dollars. Like it or not be aware of that policy BEFORE you develop any relationship. I have not cancelled my HRB membership yet but will if I can find another way of communicating with my lady. You must know what you're getting into before spending money getting to know someone you may never meet. Every service has good points and bad points. You as a consumer NEED to know what you're dealing with beforehand!

What I've learned recently in reading from this forum and others is that only 2% of all men contacting women in the FSU ever actually make the trip out there. The term for the other 98% I believe is keyboard Romeos. I believe these figures are what drives agencies like HRB. They KNOW that MOST of their customers will never make that trip. And so they make money on those guys through their other means (online chat, email, video streams).

I, on the other hand am that 2%. I am going to visit the Ukraine this coming July. I'm studying the lanquage. I fully am aware of the time (and money) involved in bringing a lady back from FSU. Most people think you meet someone, marry them and bring them back all in one week. Seriously, that's what the average person thinks. I am a businessman and do OK. I'm not a criminal and have no bad marks on my background. I found out about HRB's 2500 credit requirement because I was begining to plan my 1st trip to the Ukraine. Since they don't do travel, I emailed them re: access via my ladies' agency in Ukraine to help set up my meeting. Then I discovered the 2500 credits issue.

People need to learn about how these things work and forums like this are great tools for educating folks.

Johnny

Posted by: RBS

Hi Allen,

Sounds like you were drunk matewhen you made those decisions, or high or horny. Well, you live and learn, though in your case it seems like learning is a slow process. No insult intended. When we get our d*cks teased by experts it is hard not to resist. I once dropped $100 on a lap dancer for no good reason. And the service you got has nothing in particular to do with Russians. I had the same experience with Lavalife. There they put me in endless loops with automated responses which were counted as my time online with them. I suggest a simple chat room. Go to www.mail.ru and you can get on Russian chats no probs. They have an English room. Later old boy! Gibaudrac

Posted by: ham

hmm
i have read many agency-owner/representative VS disgruntled client debates over the years & they all could be interchanged like modular structures. Perhaps the agency is crooked or the client should get his act together...depending on who you ask.
some debates even escalate into sordid details of personal nature.
I'm sure, however, that there is small print somewhere ( that the client subscribed to as part of the agency's TOS ) and this small print predicts exactly what is going to happen...BUYER BEWARE!

Posted by: southerncharmer

I am new her too, and I had been using HRB. During my first trip to Ukraine last winter, (it did not work out) I talked with the agency owner. She said she gets 25% of all Chat & Video income. Therefore, you can see the big push for chat & video and the possibility of fraud. Paying the women splitting this income is surely a possibility. I do not have any proof, but I believe some of these women are doing this. How else can they be online everyday for 12 - 16 hours a day?

I knew this one woman was no good. (Lots of bad reports about her on the internet. That was before they blocked the women�s name on the HRB. It is now harder to verify these women.) I saw a man from my hometown on the men�s side with a picture of them together. It even said, I found her. I chatted with this woman and asked her not to break this man's heart. HRB got mad at me. They asked me to cancel my membership when they could not proof that I broke their rules.

Anyway, I meet a very nice woman on HRB and I will be going to see her soon. I think in our second chat, we exchanged emails, (it was not easy, I made some lucky guesses to figure it out. They block such attempts, PS: dog means @)(She hates the agencies) All spring we had been emailing and now I am calling her. HRB is not concerned in finding a love match for their customers. They only what the $$ they can take from their customers. IMHO

Posted by: deslimshadey

I want to comment on Man Who used sites for weeks and tried to visit lady, you have to be better than them, that is all, I used RussianLovematch.com and am still using, they also tried to tell me that I could not visit the lady nor contact her or get her contact imformation. Well I did not like that idea so I went to another site and purchased her imformation, some of it was incorrect, but enough was right that I was able to contact her and her mobile phone number and we met in may after only two months on site and now I plan to meet her again in October. I not sure if this is the right way to go but it worked for me and does not work for all. Just an Idea. The lady I met has sinced canceled all other memberships to the other sites and only uses this one. I have checked. Good Luck with your search.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplantisjj

This is first post here and I stumbled on this site last week from another forum. Great site!! Lots of good info here,,,I'll spend many hours soaking this up.

I'd like to ad to the avoid Hot Russian Brides post. As I feel they are not playing fair with peoples' emotions. I joined their site about 6 months ago and have occasionally fiddled around with it and didn't really find much there for me until a few months ago. I started corresponding with a really nice lady and was hoping she was real.....I decided I wanted to travel to Vinnitsa this summer to meet her. Well, since HRB no longer does travel assistance or anything else but email and online chats, I decide to email them and be put in contact my ladies' home agency in Vinnitsa so we can arrange a meeting. Guess what? New HRB Policy...... All members are required to have purchased at least 2500 credits before they will allow the member to be put into contact with the ladies parent agency. 2500 credits is roughly $1,000 US dollars just to be put into contact with her agency. Unbelievable!!!

Posted by: prince_alfie

Yoowzers... $1000 for startup costs?

Posted by: bingism

OK.... old post, but something relevant here... I don't know what it's like in the Rest of the World, but in the UK, if you dispute a credit card charge, you simply phone up the card company and do so... it is then put in the "disputed" account and there it can stay for up to 6-months whilst the matter is resolved. I have found that many a time, the meer threat of officially disputing can cause a sudden U-turn in the attitude of your supplier. The system is there - you just have to know how to use it!!

PS.. I was the credit card king.... therefore, bankruptcy LOL

Posted by: Renegade

I want to thank everyone who has put russianlovematch.com on the blacklist. As a result, I have had access to women that I would otherwise not have had access to. There are pros and cons to russianlovematch.com. I have the advantage of being objective, and can honestly address the pros and cons ... and there are both pros and cons. However, I ultimately found my match through them. Could they make improvements? Sure. Are there scammers on the site? Sure. Is it expenseive? Sure. Have I been upset in the past? Sure. However, I would suggest that one should not throw out the baby with the bathwater. In terms of immediate feedback with a confederacy of local agencies, with legitimate women, I haven't found anything comparable. Caveat Emptor. What is really hard to do is find the local agencies that they deal with. I still don't understand why there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive list of local agencies by city. I have my own collection, but I have not found any such list on the net. I welcome any questions regarding russianlovematch.com, as I have had much experience, both good and bad, on that site. Again, I was ultimately successful.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplantisjj

Thanks for the welcome Randy. I'm getting so educated from info from this site.

I just wanted to reiterate so everyone knows that HRB has a policy of now charging members 2500 credits to be into contact with their lady outside of HRB. That's roughly $1,000 US dollars. Like it or not be aware of that policy BEFORE you develop any relationship. I have not cancelled my HRB membership yet but will if I can find another way of communicating with my lady. You must know what you're getting into before spending money getting to know someone you may never meet. Every service has good points and bad points. You as a consumer NEED to know what you're dealing with beforehand!

What I've learned recently in reading from this forum and others is that only 2% of all men contacting women in the FSU ever actually make the trip out there. The term for the other 98% I believe is keyboard Romeos. I believe these figures are what drives agencies like HRB. They KNOW that MOST of their customers will never make that trip. And so they make money on those guys through their other means (online chat, email, video streams).

I, on the other hand am that 2%. I am going to visit the Ukraine this coming July. I'm studying the lanquage. I fully am aware of the time (and money) involved in bringing a lady back from FSU. Most people think you meet someone, marry them and bring them back all in one week. Seriously, that's what the average person thinks. I am a businessman and do OK. I'm not a criminal and have no bad marks on my background. I found out about HRB's 2500 credit requirement because I was begining to plan my 1st trip to the Ukraine. Since they don't do travel, I emailed them re: access via my ladies' agency in Ukraine to help set up my meeting. Then I discovered the 2500 credits issue.

People need to learn about how these things work and forums like this are great tools for educating folks.

Johnny

Thats the issue I had with that site, they never said anything about the 2500 credit thing when you sign up. Only thing they say is you have to be a qualified paid member for 3 months but won't tell you what the qualifications are untill you reach the 3 month mark and ask them for the contact info. Thus, you have just wasted 3 months of correspondence. There was no way I was paying roughly $1000 for an email address.

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplantisjj

Well, since HRB no longer does travel assistance or anything else but email and online chats, I decide to email them and be put in contact my ladies' home agency in Vinnitsa so we can arrange a meeting. Guess what? New HRB Policy...... All members are required to have purchased at least 2500 credits before they will allow the member to be put into contact with the ladies parent agency. 2500 credits is roughly $1,000 US dollars just to be put into contact with her agency. Unbelievable!!!

Johnny, look, all of these web sites are in business to make money. The reason they have the "Qualified Member" requirement (i.e., the requirement that you buy 2,500 credits) is so that they can cover some overhead before you start contacting these women directly. If you paid $9.99 for a bronze membership, contacted one woman, and then never used the site again, it wouldn't be very profitable for them. That's capitalism, baby.

After you reach Qualified Member status (which I have), you can get agency contact information for as many women as you want. If you want to meet a hundred of them, you can!

Bottom line, HRB (and its sister site, Russian Love Match) is pricey, but the women are extremely high quality.

By the way, they do, in fact, have photo verification when you send a gift. I've only done it a few times, but I've gotten a picture each time.

Aaron

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote: