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Proverbs and Misunderstood Words
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Posted by: searcher

I thought it would be a good idea to post words and phrases that are frequently mistranslated or misunderstood. I also thought it would be good to post some Russian proverbs (and if there is an English equivalent, post it under the Russian proverb).

Please add to the list if you know any!

1st Proverb:
[My version]: "A smile without reason is the sign of an..... American!"

Alright, alright... here is the correct one...
[Russian proverb 1]: "A smile without reason is the sign of a fool!"

Some words:
Many women may use the word "greedy" in their profiles and communications. It is used in a different context than we use it in English, the CORRECT English word would be "stingy".

In another thread one forum member mentioned that a lady wrote:
"I want to feel your heat and tenderness"
This SHOULD NOT be taken in a sexual context, it has a meaning similar to:
"I want to feel your warmth and tenderness/kindness"

I think sometimes problems are frequently caused by misunderstandings.

For example a lady I used to translate for me (and she has long been FLUENT in English) said she didn't realize until later that "dear" is used very casually in English.

"Dear" in Russian has a more intimate meaning, it is used only with someone that you have a close relationships with. What I find odd is that I have seen it used on Russian language forums more casually now, try to understand that!

It may depend upon the type of communication perhaps... I think it would be good in some native speakers of Russian added comments (and corrections).

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

I think sometimes problems are frequently caused by misunderstandings.

For example a lady I used to translate for me (and she has long been FLUENT in English) said she didn't realize until later that "dear" is used very casually in English.

"Dear" in Russian has a more intimate meaning, it is used only with someone that you have a close relationships with. What I find odd is that I have seen it used on Russian language forums more casually now, try to understand that!

That is an odd one Searcher ......a lady I wrote too and visited never ever used it and yet others who I have written to have used it right from the off. But when you ask a FSU lady about it I have always been told it has a much deeper meaning to them and is more intimate than the causual way we in which we use it in the West.

Go figure....it seems we will never understand fully? women are women and all are different.

Chris

Posted by: searcher

I think "dear" is used if you are addressing someone that you are romantically involved with.

That is why the salutation in a letter in Russian is: "Hello, {name}!" instead of "Dear {name}" as we would write in English.

I think in written communications it always has a more intimate meaning. The lady I used to do some translations for me said she stopped writing a former English coworker because he sent her a letter with the salutation "Dear Galina,". She thought he was being to foward.

Posted by: Chrismc

I understand what you mean Searcher

I have had "Dear Chris" from someone I hardly knew to "Hi Dear Chris" from somone I know very well and everything in between.

There does not seem to be anything consistent about how they use it, maybe it is down to how well the lady understands English?? That could be a factor I suppose, but I have stopped looking too deeply into it now and do not take as much notice as I did in the early days.

Chris

Posted by: cedarwind

The GF mother likes to use : “ Better to see 1 time than hear it 100 times” and she also likes to say that I am the man with a hand. I figured this one out after a little while it should have been handy man as we were talking about home repairs.

One more point I have found interesting is that they will call there apartment a house. For the first month I thought they actually lived in a house but then it got explained to me that the apartment building is called the house and you simply own a few rooms in it.

Posted by: Raspberry

We mentioned "like" and "love" confused on another post.

But perhaps the most well-known, and wrongly well-known is the name for "Red Square"....it was actually "krasiva" and somebody thought "krasnaya"
so the English name for the Beautiful Square stuck...

Posted by: Ms.Smarty Pants

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

We mentioned "like" and "love" confused on another post.

But perhaps the most well-known, and wrongly well-known is the name for "Red Square"....it was actually "krasiva" and somebody thought "krasnaya"
so the English name for the Beautiful Square stuck...

Sorry, you are not right here. LOL

Official name of this place is Red Square. It it correct.
"Krasnaya" (in russian) = "Red" ( in english). It is correct also.
"Krasnya" (in russian) in not the same like "Krasivaya" (in russian).
These two words - "krasnaya" and "krasivaya" - are not synonyms.

I am familiar with your version. Some russian linguists think the same like you. They guess, "krasnaya" and "krasivaya" had one meaning a lot of centuries ago!!! Do you know something about Kiev Rus'?! At that time!

Posted by: Jill

I've always wondered about this (mis)translation. Maybe someone has an answer? Медный всадник=Bronze Horseman???? (Isn't медь copper?). Also, I never liked the translation of the title of the movie (and proverb!) Москва слезам не верить. I usually see this rendered as "Moscow doesn't believe in tears," but I would think it would be more accurate to say "Moscow doesn't believe tears" (to believe in something is different from believing something and I would say the meaning of the proverb is closer to the latter). Oh, another often mistranslated proverb (in my opinion) is "В тихом омуте черти водятся." I often see this linked with the English proverb "still waters run deep." I don't think they mean the same at all. Any ideas on these? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Some russian linguists think the same like you. They guess, "krasnaya" and "krasivaya" had one meaning a lot of centuries ago!!! Do you know something about Kiev Rus'?! At that time!

I think this is true. Actually, you can find quite a few interesting examples of this. For example, in Eastern Slavic the word задница meant inheritance. Fortunately, in this case, modern Russian went with the Church Slavonic word наследие (which was actually taken from the Greek) to give the modern word наследство. But for a while these two words happily co-existed and had the same meaning (but now of course задница means something else entirely

Posted by: Raspberry

Jill, so they actually DID mean "red" in the first place?

Posted by: Jill

I think they probably meant beautiful, but I can't say with 100% certainty

Posted by: Raspberry

Also, I noticed that some women on their profiles say that they are "hot tempered"........I presume they mean "passionate" or "tough", or something else.....I definitely don't want a wife who would throw frying pans at me....

Nor would anyone else....

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Smarty Pants

You are mistaken. It is not "some russian linguists", it is all linguists. "Krasnaya" meant "krasivaya" not just a lot of centuries ago, but until very recently.. And of course, Krasnaya Ploshad', considering how old this place is, originaly meant "beautiful square", the same as "krasnaya devica" means "beautiful girl", not "red girl".

Posted by: inlove

In general, when it comes to misunderstanding, it is more or less the issue of not knowing another language good enough, and thus using words with a close, but nontheless wrong meaning.. "Hot tempered" or "temperamental" in russian means "passionate", while in English it has an all together different connotation. So.. her bad english and your bad russian can produce interesting results.. Never assume anything, ask for an explanation..

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

I think "dear" is used if you are addressing someone that you are romantically involved with.

Not necessarily.. It can be used with somebody you are romantically involved with, or just casually with people you know and friendly with. Sometimes it can be used with an ironic connotation, and it is, probably, what you see in Russian forums.. It is rarely used as a greeting, though, and almost never in a formal letter..

Posted by: Raspberry

Just asking, to get the record straight:

(1)Are "cossacks" and "Kazahks" one in the same?

(2)And who are the "White Russians"......in the sense of politics in the early 1900s.....and I don't mean ethnic Belarusians, either.....I've heard the term used, but don't know the exact connotations.

(3)There is this common perception that "vodka" means "water of life". True or false?

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

Just asking, to get the record straight:

(1)Are "cossacks" and "Kazahks" one in the same?

No. Kazakhs are turkic people of the north part of Central Asia (mostly Kazakhstan).
Cossacs are considered slavic, originally from tribes independent from any state. I suggest you look at these sources to read about the difference between the two:
I. A Brief History of the Cossacks
http://www.armymuseum.ru/kaz1_e.html
2. Kazakhs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs

Quote:

(2)And who are the "White Russians"......in the sense of politics in the early 1900s.....and I don't mean ethnic Belarusians, either.....I've heard the term used, but don't know the exact connotations.

During the Civil War, bolsheicks and communists accepted red flag and red color as their simbol. Those russians who stayed loyal to Tzar accepted white color for their flags, because this color was considered a simbol of nobility. That's where the term "white russians" originated.

Quote:

(3)There is this common perception that "vodka" means "water of life". True or false?

Never heard of it.

P.S. There are plenty of resources on Russian history available on the Internet.

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Interesting thread!

I assumed Red Square meant red even though it predates the Bolsheviks by many centuries. The Kremlin walls are red brick, the older buildings around the square are red brick. So, why not "red" square?

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Excuse the spelling but the Scottish Celtic words for whisky are something like Uisge Beatha, with the uisge pronounced something like "whisky".

Uisge Beatha means Water of Life.

Posted by: Raspberry

Thank You, In Love, for the definitions.

As for Keith, it would definitely make sense....I can just hear the accent now.
So the "water of life" theory applies elswhere as well.

While on the subject of distilled spirits, this reminds me of what Herb Caen, who wrote for the San Francisco Chronicle for many years....he used to refer to vodka as "vitamin V".!!

Posted by: Ms.Smarty Pants

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Thank you! LOL LOL LOL

So, in your opinion, "red nose" (nose a drunkard, nose of man after drinking a lottttt of vodka) means "beautiful" nose?

A drunkard with beautiful nose??? LOL LOL LOL

And all linguists think like you? NO COMMENTS!!!

It's not part of my culture.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Smarty Pants

Thank you! LOL LOL LOL

So, in your opinion, "red nose" (nose a drunkard, nose of man after drinking a lottttt of vodka) means "beautiful" nose?

A drunkard with beautiful nose??? LOL LOL LOL

"Krasnyi nos" means "red nose", but "krasnyi molodec" means "handsome fellow". A word "krasnyi" for a very long time meant both "red" and " beautiful, pretty, handsome, celebrated, etc.", then another related word "krasivyi" was formed, and slowly "krasnyi" lost its second meaning. In modern russian those two are completely different words, but once in awhile you can come across the original meaning of "krasnyi" in folk tales and fixed expressions.

As long as Keith's comment goes, Krasnaya ploshad' was there before the brick walls were built. The original Kremlin was wooden.

Quote:

And all linguists think like you? NO COMMENTS!!!

It's not part of my culture.

It is hard for me to know what a culture like in Samara,

but if you open any basic linguistics textbook, or talk to a linguist who specializes in slavic languages, you will easily learn this, and other basic things about the history of your native language.

Posted by: Ms.Smarty Pants

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Boy oh boy! Really?

NO COMMENTS!!! LOL LOL LOL

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Smarty Pants

Boy oh boy! Really?

NO COMMENTS!!! LOL LOL LOL

Thank you for your insightful comments, Ms. Smarty Pants. I hope you learned something new today.

Posted by: Pin Boy

ms smarty pants,

perhaps the forum members and readers would like to read an exchange of thoughts, experiences, and opinions on this topic. there are not many fluent russian speakers on the english language forum. we could benefit from your expertise rather than just laughing at someone else's post. what point or points do you disagree with and why?

pin boy

Posted by: Jill

OK, what about красный угол? Is it red or beautiful? Well, here's a proverb (weren't we talking about those at some point?): Не красна изба углами, красна пирогами

So I would guess beautiful, but I've always heard it translated as "red corner" which I though had something to do with the colors used in icons. Now I think it's beautiful, not red.

Oh, and inlove is certainly right about finding it in folk tales and fixed expressions. If we open Dahl proverbs book, we can find many examples. This is on one randomly opened page:

Красна баба повоем, а корова удоем
Не красна книга письмом, красна умом
Все красные девки золотом изошьют

There are many, many more. But I would think that the meaning here is "beautiful" rather than "red."

And all of this makes me wonder about the etymology of the words прекрасный and краска.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

OK, what about красный угол? Is it red or beautiful? Well, here's a proverb (weren't we talking about those at some point?): Не красна изба углами, красна пирогами

So I would guess beautiful, but I've always heard it translated as "red corner" which I though had something to do with the colors used in icons. Now I think it's beautiful, not red.

It is the same as with Red Square.

Modern translation of "krasnyi ugol" woud be "red conner", but the original meaning is "beautiful", or to be exact the most beautiful conner in the house, and thus the most important. There is not much red used in icons, but usually they put a red or red and white runner (rushnik) under those icons.

Quote:

And all of this makes me wonder about the etymology of the words прекрасный and краска.

They all related to each other.

Kraska is used to make things beautiful, as you might guess.

Russian is a pretty lazy language from a word construction point. Instead of coming up with new words each time, we modify old ones.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill

For example, in Eastern Slavic the word задница meant inheritance.
(but now of course задница means something else entirely

That's really marvellous!!!
Jill, you made my day!!!