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Ukraine Belorus not RUSSIANS
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Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

i dont still understand why ukraines keep saying they are russians they make me look bad....te other day a guy came up to me and i ask where he from then he said Russia i said realy what country....then he said he was from Belorussia.....cmon stop calling ur self russians if your not.....i dont know but are the russians hate the ukraines??? as in they fighting each other???

Posted by: zaniac

For some reason I find it annoying when people in England refer to Ukraine as Russia. I know there is history between the two countries, but they are completely seperate, at lest now anyway.

I'm sure there is a lot of love between Russian and Ukrainians. If there isn't , then perhaps a giant group hug by both populations would bring both countries closer together.

Posted by: Mr.Humble

Strange how some people can be mistaken as english or some other european heritage when they are clearly Canadian.....

....yes that was sarcasm....

With they way people have been traveling the last hundred years I find that it would be difficult to say that any modern country can say it has maintained it's roots 100%....So a Russian in ukraine wants to call themselves russians....up to them really.

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

True Mr.Hum.....I also dont realy know my roots, but for sure i know im not a ukraine or the small other countries....I used to hand out with the Ukraines here......but they felt different they speak look...different from us i know alot of russian are beting them up as we speak....They keep bring this up about the FAMIE not to long ago like severl million died because we took there food its when stalin time....

Posted by: DocSpooky

It's probably rather a matter of geographical borders opposed to political ones. Of course Ukraine is not Russia but don't you also think that Ukraine and Russia have the same roots? From a western point of view the values and morals I adore are to be found in both Ukraine and Russia (and Moldova, Belarus etc) Really, for me it is not a huge difference between the two countries. I would like to compare it with Germany and Austria and although I'm German I cannot make an earthshattering difference between the two countries. There are differences no question, but hey they are very specific ones and normally only being noticed between neighbouring countries themselves. It's only my opinion so please call me naive if you disagree.

Posted by: searcher

Here is my observation.

Despite the close ties these countries have to one another, there is some resentment present.

I know many Russians that have bad opinions of Ukrainians and those in some of the other countries. I know many RW that think women from Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus and Uzbekestan (?sp) are often engaged in the sex trade.

I have heard their stories about Ukrainians and Caucs being involved or link to crime in Russia, etc.

I know there is some bad history between these countries too.

I think Andrei could explain it better but don't attack him if he states the common perceptions held in Russia. His information may give you some insight about the thoughts and views held by many Russians.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Off topic warning!!!

I find it interesting that Zan and Doc have 'Great Britain' as their country...

My short time in GB, I found out that the Scots did not like to be called English... and there were MANY people who displayed the English flag... and silly American ME, I had never seen it before....

BUT, I at least had a flag of MY country "TEXAS"!!!

Posted by: Ade

Hi Texas,

There are lots of English who don't like to be called British - myself included. This has accelerated over the last 15 years or so, with the setting up of the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. It at times seems our British Govt. wants to give some measure of self-rule back to parts of the UK, but not to give the same rights to England.....so instead we continue to pay for the less well-off economies of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

On all our official forms with which we are bombarded, I always alter the ethnicity to show English...my nationality may be, officially, British, but I consider my ethnicity English.

There's quite a lot of interest in Englishness in the country, but we aren't supposed to display it because of the associations (unfortunate and unfounded) with the far-right. Love of your country and cultural heritage never has to mean racism.

I'd guess it's fairly understandable for people from the FSU to be finding their own identities again - and to be welcomed.

Ade

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

In many ways I aggree with you all.

1st Kievan Rus where the 1st Russians and that was b4 Russia was even around so the heritage is there.

2nd, was is English? Is it Anglo? Saxon? Jute? Kelt? Scot? Dane? Norman? French? Flemish? etc (need I go on). Really the English ethnic group is such a multicultural group it isn't easy to describe an English ethnicity. Go from Cornwall (Keltic and even has its own Keltic language Kernewek) to London (onpy God knows what they talk there) to Northumberland and on to the border districts where in some people you can still here the Danish heritage in their voices and, some may think this is even worse, the closer you gt to Scotland itself the more Scots the accent is.

The big question now is What is English?

Also why do people refer to the 'other' economies as jholding back Britain (England). Remember 1715 and the the 45? This is why Scotland used to have 6 million ppl in the highlands before the purges after the 45, how many are there now? Before the purges of the 45, the Highlands used to have 1/3 of the Scottish population, what is the % now?

I won't go into Wales and Northern Ireland ATM as I believe Scotland is a good enough example. But I will say Wales is not a Cymraeg (Keltic) word, Wales (Waelhs) is Saxon and it means Slave in Old Saxon. For crying out loud the English wont even let the Welsh have their own parliament, and no what Tony Blair forced on the Welsh isn't a Parliament and wasn't what many of them wanted, and to top it all of they wont even call the country by its proper name. Sorry I wasn't go to do Wales was I

Posted by: DocSpooky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Off topic warning!!!

I find it interesting that Zan and Doc have 'Great Britain' as their country...

My short time in GB, I found out that the Scots did not like to be called English... and there were MANY people who displayed the English flag... and silly American ME, I had never seen it before....

BUT, I at least had a flag of MY country "TEXAS"!!!

He he he, yes it took me also a while to understand the difference between
St George which I have never seen before and the Union Jack. I find it funny but I'm not in favour of patriotism in any form. What is the point of displaying the heritage or origin apart from war situations and sports (war light)? The English and the scottish are probably a good example as they deeply disrespect each other and they share a bloody history. Or why not Ireland and UK? I think the main difference is only in the mind of people and can not so easily be seen by foreigners. I haven't been there yet but I believe I wouldl notice as much difference between Ukraine and Russia as a Russian person would see between Scotland and England. The main difference will be the Landscape and the Language. Example: I deeply hate Bavaria and everything that goes with it. My stress level rises rapidly if someone from there talks to me because the dialect hurts my ears. For me there's a hell of a difference between the north and the south of the country but for you guys is does not matter because if you think of Germany you think of Biergarten, Lederhosen, BMW...all Bavaria. And yet you would not see things much different in the north. It's only in my mind and based mainly on prejudice and minor experiences.

Tex, I bet you can tell a similar story about say Texas and Oklahoma or something like that. Honestly, I'd struggle to see differences there but you certainly would. I have to add though that I have not been there yet.

Cossack, Let's put it this way: I bet there are some parts on Ukraine that are more Russian than certain parts in Russia and vice versa due to its mixed culture.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Deep, very Deep. I agree whole heartedly

Posted by: markgm

There are many Russians in Ukraine who class themselves as Russian not Ukranian. I found this travelling through Ukraine.
The main language in my partners hometown is Russian she speaks Russian as this is her main Language but if you would say to her you are Russian she would tell you that she is Ukrainian.
All the signs in her town are also all in Russian. Travelling through Russia and Ukraine I found not much differences between the people speaking Russian in both countries.

The day we all wake up and realize that there is only one race of people on this earth and that is the human race will be the day that the world will change for the better.

Take care Mark

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

The day we all wake up and realize that there is only one race of people on this earth and that is the human race will be the day that the world will change for the better.

OMG I have been saying the exact same thing for years, I even teach it to all my classes, and yes I get into some extremely deep doo doo over it as some people still think if you aren't white you aren't Human.

Mark I knew I liked you and got on well with you for a reason.

Cheers Mate, you and Deccie restore my faith in humanity so often.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Your Welcome Oz,

I was fortunate enough to grow up in the Old Darwin with kids from all different places, asian,aboriginal,greek and many others a very diverse community i did not know of other races untill after the Darwin cyclone i thought that it was quite normal that we all looked different.
When I came to Adelaide it was then that i was told that there were other races and you do not mix with them I told everyone to get stuffed when they mentioned this and right up to the current day i still do not see a difference with races of people.
Through my eyes everyones the same tall, thin, medium, large, light hair dark hair, light skin, dark skin all this has always been very normal through my eyes and my life.

Take care Oz Hey Oz how about adding one of your Recipes in the other Sec................................

Posted by: DocSpooky

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

The day we all wake up and realize that there is only one race of people on this earth and that is the human race will be the day that the world will change for the better.

Errmm...honestly? I think the day that will change the world for the better is the day when religions of all kinds are not present anymore. ALL mysery on this planet is somehow based on religions. Think about it, it goes from racism over wars to pollution etc just name it. Either one equal global religion will be established, which will never happen, or none at all. So better none. I'm religious by the way, I believe in the universe and its structured chaos - some people call this phenomenon God, Allah or whatever else but is it neccessary to live in a range of competing institutions that are all following the obvious rules of life? Like political parties? Hello? Are we having a brain or what? When do we learn to be self responsible?? Politics derive from religions and now look at hostile countries, all of them are somehow claiming to be right because their religion covers their issues.

Ooops - off topic....

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSpooky

Hi Doc,

I am of a similar opinion as well racism and religion do go hand in hand in causing these types of problems this has been proven throughout the centuries time and time again.
But i still believe that one day in mankinds future as walls come down and borders disapear that there will be more understanding of race and religion. This is already starting to happen slowly throughout the world might take another thousand years but i believe it will happen.
It all needs to start at home its what we teach our children that will determine this subject in the future.

Take care Mark

Posted by: DocSpooky

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

This is already starting to happen slowly throughout the world might take another thousand years but i believe it will happen.
It all needs to start at home its what we teach our children that will determine this subject in the future.

Yes I totally agree. Shame though it's that far away but at least we can be part of the development.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSpooky

I think your looking at this very superficially. Politics does not derive from religion. Politics derives from competition. In short it derives purely from having limited resources and more things to spend them on or to chose not to spend it at all.
Politics is alive and well in any organisation - large or small.

It it VERY alive in the company I work for, and was also prevalent in the university I worked for before that. It's is the mechanisim to resolve disputes , it just that people being people sometimes all sorts of processes are used to get a particular viewpoint across. As any leader would know, leadership by consensus is doomed to failure.

As for religion and race. They key here is not colour, origin, race or anything like that. The key is DIFFERENCE. That difference can be ANYTHING as it is so often in the schoolyard. What a lot of people who proclaim racist views forget at their own peril is that if by misfortune their views came to pass they could themselves be the target of the next wave because all that would happen is that a smaller, finer target would be next.

For any group who are trying to blame the ills of the world on someone else a target is the essential part of the mix. As is the innocent victim. Both are rarely completely true.

This is also part of the problem with a black and white view of the world. The truth is never going to be that one country or group of people are going to be "absolutely right". The same as every group of people has it's criminals, rapists and murderers. To me at least absolutes are very rare indeed in our world. I don't know how others perceive this..

Yes, off topic again.. (-:

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

Mark, I wonder how this would work practically? From what I see we are actually going the reverse direction and dividing ourselves along aritifical lines..
Looks at the number of territories pushing for autonomy from parent governments around the world.. How big is your workplace? If it's a large one I would ask if you identifiy and place yourself as a member of that group as a whole or do you tend to find yourself aligned with one group more than another?

That latter is my situation and invariably I find myself aligned against senior management. (-:

Smaller communities tend to be more focused than larger ones so I wonder if we wouldn't be better served promoting division by deciding along rational lines where the divisions are instead of allowing things like race and religion, bigotry and everything else to create them.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Dec I dont usally talk about Politics or religion,

I look at the world today compared to 30 years ago and there are some really big changes alot of borders have come down all over the world. Countries where you would never have gone before you would go now. Sure there are still those throughout the world that want to stop this and there intent is to harm people to get there point across but they are the minority.
Dictatorships have been falling all over the world in the last few years, smaller countries are becoming more independant and are breaking away from the larger countries that have occupied them in the past. I dont know if this will be a good thing in the future or bad.
Dec with my work we are one group I employ 14 people and I treat them like my family. But I know what you mean as I have worked in a very large organization before employing 50,000.00 staff members throughout Aus it was the politics and little groups of power mongers that forced me to leave after 12 years of it.

Anyway enough of this sidetracked again He!! He!!

Take care Mark

Posted by: deccie

I understand the reticence Mark..
But it's a bit like the STD conversation discussed elsewhere.

The consequences of not having the discussion can be worse than the problems caused by dealing with it.

Mind you, I'm not likely to have a discussion on politics or religion with a taxi driver in Melbourne or Sydney any time soon!

Posted by: Ade

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

In many ways I aggree with you all.

1st Kievan Rus where the 1st Russians and that was b4 Russia was even around so the heritage is there.

2nd, was is English? Is it Anglo? Saxon? Jute? Kelt? Scot? Dane? Norman? French? Flemish? etc (need I go on). Really the English ethnic group is such a multicultural group it isn't easy to describe an English ethnicity. Go from Cornwall (Keltic and even has its own Keltic language Kernewek) to London (onpy God knows what they talk there) to Northumberland and on to the border districts where in some people you can still here the Danish heritage in their voices and, some may think this is even worse, the closer you gt to Scotland itself the more Scots the accent is.

The big question now is What is English?

Also why do people refer to the 'other' economies as jholding back Britain (England). Remember 1715 and the the 45? This is why Scotland used to have 6 million ppl in the highlands before the purges after the 45, how many are there now? Before the purges of the 45, the Highlands used to have 1/3 of the Scottish population, what is the % now?

I won't go into Wales and Northern Ireland ATM as I believe Scotland is a good enough example. But I will say Wales is not a Cymraeg (Keltic) word, Wales (Waelhs) is Saxon and it means Slave in Old Saxon. For crying out loud the English wont even let the Welsh have their own parliament, and no what Tony Blair forced on the Welsh isn't a Parliament and wasn't what many of them wanted, and to top it all of they wont even call the country by its proper name. Sorry I wasn't go to do Wales was I

Hi,

In response, that's a fairly stock answer that comes up anytime anyone says they're English and glad of it....that they aren't really English blah blah blah. I know my history, thanks! And I'm still English.....both by how I feel about my cultural heritage, and by the modern slant on ethnicity posited by some historians (that if a group feels, and identifies, it is).

Talk of Kelts or Celts is of course rather a good illustration of that....no-one now denies 'Celticity', yet that wasn't a word applied by the ancient peoples now referred to as Celts.....just like Welsh, it's a foreign word. And Wales....what is its proper name? defined when, and by whom? Who is stopping you from calling Wales by its 'proper' name? And it's not the English who've stopped Wales from having a Parliament (your word - I did mention the Assembly, not a parliament), it's the UK Govt. You may have noticed England doesn't have one either.

Modern economies I'm talking about, the distribution of the wealth created by the constituent parts of the UK and its distribution.....which is entirely disproportionate. England gets a raw deal from this. The events of the 18th Century aren't relevant to this.....I was talking about relative figures, which aren't dependent upon the total size of the workforce.

I actually think it's a good thing for all the areas of the UK to have a strong sense of identity....I also think it's better for England if we had total devolution now. And that's for all the English now, whether they identify with the past or they're recent immigrants working hard to better themselves.

Ade

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Hi Ade.

An extremely thoughful response, and one that I appreciate.

You might already know but I am a history teacher, and I also have both English and Scottish heritage (and whether my old man likes it or not Irish as well) but my point is that the past will always have an effect on the present. It shouldn't be used to lay blame nor should it be used to invoke nationalistic ferbour against others. What it should be used for is a background for a constructive debate, and that is something you have kept going.

If you were genuine about your questions I'll answer them here and now.

Wales was always seperate kingdoms so it would end up as two seperate keltic nations of the same lineage. Pemboke itself isn't a Cymreag word either but the Cymreag speakers an historians would be able to delve into the old language and find out what it would be called, they probably already know.

Good point on the Kelt/Celt wording. It is ancient Greek for Barbarian and the Keltoi spelling is the accurate version, sorry to all you Scots and Americans who support the Celtic football teams no offence meant.

I would debate whether England had its own Parliament or not and so would people like Oliver Cromwell. Just becuase England has a government that decides overall British Island Foriegn policy, Defence Policy etc. doesn't mean that England doesn't have its own Parliament, it just means that England Parliament is holding ontomany issues that it feels it can better control. The English Parliament is very Paternalistic when it comes to its colonial posessions.

I know I said Parliament with regards to Wales and you said Assembly, I am not disagreeing that fact. What I meant was that the Welsh people have been asking for decades for self rule (as in a Parliament), the Tories would not give them one so Tony Blair gave them the next best (in his books anyway) thing. Many Welsh are now saddled with taxes to pay for an assembly that only has the power to advise Number 10 Downing Street and they still have to pay taxes to pay for the English government anyway because it wont let go of foriegn policy etc.

Lastly the devolution of England, or did you mean Britian, would be a disaster IMHO. Why? because what would you go back to? Mercia, Norfolk, Suffolk, Wessex etc. What would you do with Cornwall, would you give Bath back and rename it Aqua Sulis like it used to be, what about Kent which if you check genetic data is still incredibly Keltic. These are futile q?s I know but it is food for thought.

I know I said lastly b4 but what about Milosovic hey? That guy had many people killed all in the name of rampant Nationalism. Now he has escaped mortal punishment through death, sorry but I think that is so unfair. I'm with Markgm, when as a group of people humanity respects others for being different then this world will be a better place. Religion, ethinicity, skin colour, accent, age, rank and serial numbers dont count. If you cant respect someone for not being like you then you are the one with the problem not them.

And I wasn't even on my Soapbox.

Posted by: DocSpooky

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Politics does not derive from religion. Politics derives from competition. (-:

Yes politics derive from competition, sure you are right as everything life related derives from competition. It's the law of evolution and even we 'highly developed' lot cannot do anything against it. It's present in the way we work, we love, we fight we communicate...yes even in the way we eat our cerials in the morning I guess. Now Religion (systems) are a nice little invention from humans in oder to give the day to day competition (as in politics) a (double) moral guide line. The basics of law are based on religion or in other words, what you are not allowed to do politically you are not getting away with religiously - at least within own systems.
You shouldn't lie, murder, steal etc - pretty much our main concerns of law.
If we look back in history than we can see that politics and religions were not even close but rather one institution.
The question is were does politics start and were does it end? Are some dogs fighting for a big bone political? Although their have their signals and ways of expressing themselfes they are not political as they don't lie and let everybody else clearly know that they want in order to have that thing if they physically can. The power of the strongest. That is competition true and basic and at the end of the day the reason why we are sitting here as what we are.
With the development of the brain we then invented the idea of religion. The allmighty power that takes on all responsibilities. Religions have one thing in common and that is to promise humans to be special and different - just better. Wow great, now we have a reason! Back to the dog situation. The allmighty boss up in the clouds says WE should have that bone and not the other one as they are incomplete and inferior. The boss approves it, brains are being switched off and suddenly hey party! Further development of the brain then has lead to the use of politics. Politics as a synonym for being not as open and clear and honest as the dogs were in order to get more out of it than the bone and to bite less bullets.
So you are right when you are saying that politics derive from competition and I can see your point, however, the development goes to religion first and from there to politics because it's religion that teaches i.e. lying and double morals which are required in politics. So without the influence of religions politics would still be basic competition and not modern politics.

And again...off topic.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

I understand the reticence Mark..
But it's a bit like the STD conversation discussed elsewhere.

The consequences of not having the discussion can be worse than the problems caused by dealing with it.

Mind you, I'm not likely to have a discussion on politics or religion with a taxi driver in Melbourne or Sydney any time soon!

I agree Dec but i will shy away from this in here. And get back to the day everyone wakes up and realizes that there is only one race on this earth and that is the human race things will get better this may not come about for a long time but as our resources start running out on this planet in the next few hundred years mankind will have to look outside of our planet to replenish these resources as the growth of the world population is going to far outstrip the resources we currently have and countries will have to combine together to achieve this as the costs will be astronomical for one country to do alone. At the moment you have a joint venture already planning this today with several countries combining together to look at the possibilities of achieving this. (Sheezus I really am side tracked now)

Posted by: zaniac

The UK flag was the first one that I saw.

Posted by: DocSpooky

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaniac

The UK flag was the first one that I saw.

LOL - Hey that's strange! It was the first one that I saw and I'm not even from there!

Posted by: jpierce55

I work with a "Ziggy" from "former Yugoslavia" and I know it really burns him when people call him Russian he says "I can understand if I was from Ukraine or Belarussia they are the same as Russia, but I am different".

I little irony there.

Posted by: Ade

Hi OzGuy,

Thanks for the response...I'm 1/4 Irish myself (Cork), not been yet but will, some day. I like to play Devil's Advocate, but not with my own country!

!

I'm talking about devolution into the parts as they stand in modern history, anything else is far too messy (and carrying on your genetic theme, a BBC doc in the last couple of years was looking for Viking - Danish/Norwegian - genetic traces in the UK, and the most noticeable thing they found was that most people in lowland Scotland were actually descended from the Germanic peoples who settled Northumbria, rather than having the expected Irish/Scottish genes!).

As for the extreme South-West, and some other areas in the south, well they aren't futile questions.....because if there was a split, it is the sort of thing that would have to be considered...though I suspect that for all but the SW, those other factors have disappeared.

As for the British Parliament being an English Parliament, I think that a lot of people here - or at least, those with an active interest in politics, have felt that our national parliament has had too much Scottish influence!

On equality of everyone, my old man used to say the only religion should be 'do right by your fellow man', and he was right....but we don't live in an ideal world, and we're none of us perfect; and when I hear people say (and I don't mean you here, I mean in general) that everything would be okay if we all just realised we are all one race, I either feel like kicking 'em in the bum, or nicking something from them

Now, if they were actively working towards that worthy goal (and not by being a jobless hippy) I'd applaud 'em.....as an educator, I'm sure you know that education is the only way forward for that......people can only change their own minds, not have it done for them.

There was something else I wanted to say, but I've forgotten as Seida is interrupting my computer time

Regards,

Ade

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

HEY HEY HEY this was about Ukraine and Belorus not RUSSIANS....but heres another thing...

The European Union Hates RUssia and Ukraine joing EU or wants to......thats why i gueess many hate them...Im Russian....and also dislike any else who claims to be one..

PPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSS::::::: IS Ameriaca in deep ****? Does Britian own CANADA, US, South Africa, and Austria....SO DOES IT u can tell me....AMERICA is not frree cause they still use English and British ways....

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Ade.

I have only just noticed you last post, sorry for my negligence on that part. I am happy to tell you that my ex Year 8 (High School) Geography class has started a World Peace Society at the school and had their 1st official meeting on last friday. These are kids who are trying to do something as you say and are not like the hippy flower power group who sprout lovely nicesties but never remove their butts of their meditation blanket to actually do anything. Yoy see Ade I actually stand by what I say and teach because I feel if I dont then why ruddy well do it. BTW, No offence was taken by your remark, I knew what you meant but I thought I'd share this with you all anyway.

Ruski, I am trying to figure out what you mean by your last post mate and for the life of me I cant. Oh well thats life, crap happens and you pay taxes.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruski_Cossack

HEY HEY HEY this was about Ukraine and Belorus not RUSSIANS....but heres another thing...

The European Union Hates RUssia and Ukraine joing EU or wants to......thats why i gueess many hate them...Im Russian....and also dislike any else who claims to be one..

PPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSS::::::: IS Ameriaca in deep ****? Does Britian own CANADA, US, South Africa, and Austria....SO DOES IT u can tell me....AMERICA is not frree cause they still use English and British ways....

Hi Russki Cossack,

I know you guys dont like Ukrainians calling themselves Russian and vise versa.
But Ukraine was the home to the first eastern slavic state so in the history books Ukraine is actually the birthplace of Russia which was Kyivan Rus. Historians say that Russia,Ukraine and Belarus all stem from Kyivan Russia In the now present Ukraine and split from each other around 11th to 12th century splitting into 10 different princedoms.
The cossacks also rose out of Ukraine in the countries midsouth in the 15th century.

Take care Mark

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

Hi Russki Cossack,
But Ukraine was the home to the first eastern slavic state so in the history books Ukraine is actually the birthplace of Russia which was Kyivan Rus.

(cough) um ya in history it was captial Because oleg moved it there but NNNNNNOOOOOOOTTTTTTTT BIRTH PLACE

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/russiatime1.html
check this website if u think im wrong. and u were right about Cossacks started in Ukraine....but they wasnt offical like Russia.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruski_Cossack

Well there you go Ruski you learn something everyday.

Take care Mark

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

.....What do u mean I learnd something knew...am i right Stupid Ukraine was part of russia untill they became indepedent so i guess the POOR LAZY FARMERS AND IDOITS POLOLISH GOT TOGETHER AND MADE UKRAINE....oh k now about the conflict about RUSSIANS HATRED to lazy Ukraine...

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruski_Cossack

.....What do u mean I learnd something knew...am i right Stupid Ukraine was part of russia untill they became indepedent so i guess the POOR LAZY FARMERS AND IDOITS POLOLISH GOT TOGETHER AND MADE UKRAINE....oh k now about the conflict about RUSSIANS HATRED to lazy Ukraine...

Sheezus Ruski Australian way of saying that I learnt something new not you learning something new.

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

Sheezus Ruski Australian way of saying that I learnt something new not you learning something new.

Ha ha ha, the joys of intercultural communucation. Onya Mark.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzGuyLooking

Ha ha ha, the joys of intercultural communucation. Onya Mark.

Its alright Oz i'm use to it after 12 months with Nat

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

No u mean...."Ah oh way mate, let me get some Kangooors for breakfast and oh crocky for dinner" and then u say "cheerios".

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

Opps nearly forgot go outside and use ur boomyerang rather than MOSIN.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruski_Cossack

No u mean...."Ah oh way mate, let me get some Kangooors for breakfast and oh crocky for dinner" and then u say "cheerios".

Nah Ruski Koala for brekkie, crock for lunch and Kangaroo for dinner, cant forget frillneck lizard soup, goanna pie, and deep fried cocatoo.

Posted by: Ruski_Cossack

Quote:

Originally Posted by markgm

Nah Ruski Koala for brekkie, crock for lunch and Kangaroo for dinner, cant forget frillneck lizard soup, goanna pie, and deep fried cocatoo.

must taste good in the summer, when here we got rain and snow.

Posted by: RBS

Hey Ruski,
Don't be a pridurka. The European Union is not a person. It is a union of 300 million people. To say they all hate Russia is the mouthing of a fool. More insulting for you perhaps is that they don't really know much about Russia or give a care. Let's stop these transnational insults here. I have been the victim of this type of bigotry and it stinks!

Gib

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruski_Cossack

From your link, I guess you are referring to Rurik? Strange because Slavic settlements in what became "Rus" pre-date Rurik by many years (who do you think invited him anyway?). And if I'm not mistaken, Kiev also already existed at this time. So while it may not have been a viable state, certainly Slavs already lived there. Actually, some scolars believe that the birthplace of ALL Slavs is, in fact, located in present day Ukraine. And Rurik really didn't do much to esablish Eastern Slavic culture, per se (he was an outsider after all). That did actually come with Kievan Rus.