guys, what should i do? - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

guys, what should i do?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: rnmedix

i've met this woman, she's a midwife, comfortably earning 80+k, very intelligent, etc. basically, she's decided that she wants a baby, and wants me to have sex with her for that express purpose. the conversation just worked it's way around to this. not to brag, but i'm a stud. she's got a nice hard body, etc... but i just don't want a relationship with her. she's nice, but in all honesty i blow off women like her all the time (though she's unique in trying to get pregnant). meaningless sex is another matter altogether, since i'm a man, and we are all swine. so in the spirit of this brotherhood, i'd like to get some advice.

i had sex with her once already, and it was great fun since it's like "bombs away!" and she's uninhibited in the sack. this was the 2nd time we met at her place for a study program we're both in, and i'm supposed to do it again tommorrow. i'm starting to wonder what will happen if she gets pregnant and then decides that i'm supposed to be a father to her child 5 years from now. i'm thinking about a written agreement, but i'm really wondering whether that would hold up in court if she wants $ from me years from now? do i need to have something drawn up with an attorney?

honestly, i want no connection with her that lasts beyond the sex, which she's chosen me for. the fact that she could get pregnant suits me just fine, as long as i don't have to pay for or raise the child. she's telling me that i'm saving her a big fee for artificial insemination.

i'm confused about this! i'd like practical advice without moralizing. yes, i'm a heathen, and i shall ever be thus. thanks to anyone who comments.

Posted by: Spakoyna

I think you answered your own question about the issues of morality.

As to the legal side...I have heard of several instances where down the road the so called doner was made to pay child support! There was a case recently...don't remember when where a guy had done this for a lesbian couple...the lesbians split up..then went to court and the court judged in favor of the lesbian and forced the guy to pay child support. Perhaps others remember the case better....seems like it was in Texas?

Posted by: clever1

Ok Here's my say on this matter and I don't care who jumps on me.

It really Pi88es me off, when a single woman decides. "Oh I'd like to have a baby"

The same goes for same sex relationships.

The was a case here where a gay couple adopted first one child then another. Why, because they were rich and could afford it.

They chose to be together, so they should accept the consequences, that they couldn't physically have a child.

There are many single men out there that would like to have a child, and would make good fathers, But because of the laws of nature they can't.

I don't care how much money she has, she shouldn't be allowed to have,

1/ artificial insemination

2/ someone like you even considering the thought of making her pregnant.

You say she earns 80k plus, what happens when she can no longer work because of the child?

I hope that if you do it, that somewhere down the line, YOU ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

Think not of her, But put yourself in the childs place in years to come, when she starts asking questions.

Can you really live with yourself for having been a part of what the child might go through ?

John

Posted by: rnmedix

i think we've got no choice but to live with ourselves. if it's not me, then it would be some other guy. it's her decision. she's got money, for sure, and her family has money (she's jewish, from a well to do family).

to be honest, it's flattering as hell to have a woman assess you in an almost clinical way, and say "i want you to father my child" based on your intelligence, physical characteristics, etc.

what is the child "going through"? she's extremely well adjusted and is more than ready for a child. being a midwife, she's certainly got lots of experience with pregnancy, etc. it's not like she's a cashier at the 7-11.

i would have jumped her bones if i'd have met her at a bar or on vacation (where women do cut loose and have flings, even some "happily" married ones... you'd be surprised). it doesn't automatically make her a slut or a terrible person.

she's business-like about the whole thing, insisting that every orgasm be inside her. this is the first time i've encountered anything quite like this. usually, the focus is on preventing pregnancy.

this is helping me clarify that my concerns are strictly legal as far as the ramifications. if you feel i'm a dog, then i'm not going to argue with you. woof!

Posted by: clever1

I think you missed my point.

You think well adjusted, is someone who does something on a whim, what right does she have to say "I WANT a baby"

I WANT a million dollars, should I go and look at all the physical and mental attributes of every women that could fulfill my wish ?

Quote:

i think we've got no choice but to live with ourselves. if it's not me, then it would be some other guy. it's her decision. she's got money, for sure, and her family has money (she's jewish, from a well to do family).

Back to I can have anything I want if I can afford it.

Why don't you ask her how much she will pay you for your services, after all if she's picked you out of all the guys in your locality, and she and her family are as wealthy as you say, I'm sure she would pay for the priveledge of having your offspring.

Quote:

she's business-like about the whole thing, insisting that every orgasm be inside her.

From that statement and yours about having already had sex with her, I draw the conclusion you had unprotected sex?

That tells me a lot about you, not only do you not have any respect for your female partners, but you also have none for yourself.

sorry if this offends, JMOP.

I'm sure that others will have theirs.

John

Posted by: bingism

rnmedix

If this is not a wind-up, then I'll speak my mind....

Your friend is quite clearly one of the "I want it all" crowd and extremely selfish. Every child has the given right to expect two "normal" parents, as nature intended (please no-one come up with the "what is normal" argument). No child chooses to be born and they all deserve the right to a relationship with both mother and father - not father:father, mother:mother or mother:anonymous sperm doner... Do you honestly feel it is right? Do you honestly think that you have the right to donate half a baby and then walk away?

Get a grip man! Who made you and your friend God???

Anyway, how does your friend intend to keep working in her "oh so fantastic $80k a year job"? Childcare I imagine... what a great start for little Jimmy... no Dad and no Mommy because she's working all day... great way to a balanced start in life! Anyone who puts their child through this, does so because they have to, i.e. Dad left or died and Mum "has" to work. Would a balanced individual choose this for their child?? NO!

Bing

Posted by: rnmedix

one thing is for certain. she's not doing this on a whim. she's thought this out very carefully. and i'm not saying she's filthy rich. she's comfortable, and she's got her family around for extended support. obviously, she's quite liberal. of course, her parents frown on this but she's very determined. she wouldn't be the first woman who ever did this. and she'd simply say it's none of your business, period.

she doesn't need to pay to have sex, that is certain! money wasn't brought up in the discussion. maybe if we drew up a contract, and she paid me some nominal sum

. i'm just feeling like this leaves me open to a paternity suit sometime down the road, and i'd feel a lot more comfortable if that wasn't a worry. i honestly don't think it would ever come up, but...

anyone have any practical advice? again, if you'd read my posts.. i'm not asking for moral advice. i couldn't possibly care any less about what anyone thinks on that score.

and perhaps she'd think you're a loser who can't get a woman and is trying to trap an economically desperate lady into a marriage for a visa. i'm sure there are folks who'd judge you that way. how would you like that?

Posted by: Ade

If you don't want 'moral advice' or to hear other people's opinions, what are you doing here?

If you want practical advice, go and see a lawyer.

If you're the sort of person - and it sounds as though you are, from your posts - who could happily go around fathering children and not giving a damn about them, as long as you'd enjoyed the sex and didn't have to consider, or be held accountable for, any of the consequences, then you aren't going to get the sort of help/advice you want here.

Each to their own, and all that, but the people on here generally seem to have the same basic values regarding children and families....and they seem discordant with your expressed views.

Ade

Posted by: GREGK

I can't imagine wanting to father a child under these circumstances. Go be a "stud" if you want to but don't help bring a child into the world unless you are going to be a father to it.

Posted by: Chrismc

Sounds like this women has everything she wants and if not can buy what she wants, so is this just another fashion accessory>? but one that will last a lifetime?

Posted by: martin3030

Have to agree with the guys here.
Theres a morality issue and I am especially suprised to hear she is actually a midwife herself !!

Children usually talk like this behind the bike sheds at school,but its hardly a conversation you expect to hear from 2 grown adults.

Any thought of this is extremelly selfish and whether you would be financially responsible in the long term is a question most people would consider BEFORE thinking about escaping it !!!

It doesnt say a lot for either of you as responsible adults,and I very much hope you will forget this silly idea,which can only bring misery later on.

Posted by: rnmedix

well, she propositioned me with the idea. i have to admit i was stunned at first but i do see her reasoning. she's got a biological clock, it's ticking, and if she doesn't have a child, she may never! should she just marry the first guy she meets who wants to get married? she's having trouble finding someone who really connects with her for marriage. does this mean she can't have a child? who is anyone to decide this for her? it shouldn't surprise me that men can't understand her... because you can wait for many years to have children. there's no expiration date on your fertility. it's very easy to condemn others when you can't understand their position.

and you can't seriously tell me that most everyone here hasn't had sex with a woman casually at some point. i'm not in a relationship, and i see myself a couple of years away from getting married or being committed. so i'm certainly not decieving anyone. sex is a physiological need at some level. it's easy to get, but then you're got the relationship thing. i won't tell you guys i didn't enjoy it, because i did. just out of curiosity, do you guys go years without sex? are you all telling me you only have sex when you're in love and married? i think i need my boots, because it's getting pretty thick in here! but of course, when you had your booty call, it was o.k...

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

and perhaps she'd think you're a loser who can't get a woman and is trying to trap an economically desperate lady into a marriage for a visa. I'm sure there are folks who'd judge you that way. how would you like that?

I don't much care what she would think of me.

From the way you've described her.

How could I trap a woman into coming over here, economically desperate or not?

My questions to you are :-

1/ What are your reasons for being on this forum, as your posts suggest your not really looking for a marriage or serious relationship with an FSU woman, or any woman at all.

2/ Could you tell a woman from the FSU, that you thought was marriage material,

Sorry honey, but if you marry me we might end up with a paternity suite in a few years, as there was this woman that asked me to father her a child, and it might mean we have money problems.

3/ Would you just not tell her.

John

Posted by: martin3030

The conversation changes to have a new slant ????

Whichever way its put its still wrong.

Of course the guys here dont go years without sex (as far as I am aware )

but sex and parenthood are 2 different things.

If this woman has to wait a little then whats wrong with that...........you never know she might actually meet someone and marry him,not for the purpose of using him as a sperm donor.........but because she loves him and wants a family in the traditional spirit of things just like everyone else !!

Posted by: clever1

Every womans biological clock is ticking.

There are many women in stable relationships, who have problems conceiving.

Some manage to have children through advances in medicine, some can't. Those that can't have to ...............DEAL WITH IT.

So should your friend.

John

Posted by: rnmedix

my window for looking is considerably farther down the road. first, i'm learning about the culture and language and doing some traveling to the FSU. I hope to meet the right girl in real life. i'm a lot more interested in making friends first, without even a hint of a relationship. i can be very patient, because i'm not desperate. this as opposed to discussing marriage with someone where you can't even communicate without interpreting! to me, that's asking for disaster a few years down the road!

i've met "mail order wives" in the u.s. who told me they wish they weren't married. don't kid yourself. it happens.

i've met a few russian girls who were extremely bright and well educated, and that has me captivated. i got along wonderfully with them.. i met women who you could have serious discussions about things like books written by F. Scott Fitzgerald, Balzac, Voltaire, Tolstoy, etc... i am looking for a liberal intellectual, and i don't think i'm going to find her by using an online service. i'm quite sure about exactly what i want. the typical american lifestyle of parking your butt in front of the television for another mind numbing night just isn't for me. so i'm looking outside my culture for a very specific type of person. if i don't find her, that's fine. otherwise, i won't get married at all.

as far as the situation discussed here, we've agreed that i'm donating sperm... that's it. i'm not to have a part in her baby's life, nor are we to keep in contact once she's pregnant. that's her wish, and i wouldn't even consider this otherwise. she feels like she has a suitable selection for genetics in me. i don't see a holy attachment to my sperm, anymore than an anonymous sperm donor.

Posted by: bingism

Get a life... for God's sake, you do realise that in 30-years an adult will come looking for you don't you??? You started this thread, you're not interested in what anyone says if it's not "yeah, nail her... give her one in the oven from me"!! I feel sorry for the poor sap you convince to marry you and hope that she finds out what how little regard you have for creating a human life before it's too late (for her anyway).

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

There seems to be a degree of self-justification in what you post; the 'if it's not me, then it would be some other guy' and being no more attached to your sperm than some anonymous donor talk.

That still doesn't make it right, and you're expressing an irresponsible and immature attitude to fatherhood........so you really, really don't care about the kid as long as you get your rocks off? Because that's what it sounds like.

Sounds like maybe you deserve each other.....but it'll be a damn shame for the kid.

Ade

Posted by: bingism

well said Ade...

Posted by: clever1

You know what,

I'd laugh my head off if he was infertile, would serve him right.

John

Posted by: martin3030

Quote:

Originally Posted by clever1

You know what,

I'd laugh my head off if he was infertile, would serve him right.

John

Dunno if I would go as far as to say that John...................one day he MAY grow up to the real responsibilities of Fatherhood.

If she has got so much money and wants a child so badly.........a better idea would be for her to adopt one from a Romanian orphanage.

Posted by: rnmedix

well, gentlemen... it appears that you'll be liable no matter what. the mother can't contract away support rights of the child in exchange for fathering. so this issue is dead in the water now. i can't get caught up in this. it's definitely not worth the potential grief. even if you just gave her the sperm, you're still liable.

she's got to find someone else for this, or use the sperm bank

. i'm going to chalk this one up to getting laid on a fling, and hope nothing more comes of it.

Posted by: Pin Boy

i only read the first post...are you both out of your minds????

how could you even entertain such a thought (since she's not here you get the reply you asked for)???

this is despicable....and then when these poor kids come to school emotional wrecks the teachers get blamed when the child has difficulties...makes me wanna wretch on my keyboard.

pb

Posted by: Spakoyna

Perhaps someone needs to warn the nice Russian ladies???????

I especially did not like the ......even the married women like a fling.

I'm old school...Ya mess with my wife ya got a problem! If ya bigger than me ya got a problem with my 45!

Posted by: rnmedix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

Perhaps someone needs to warn the nice Russian ladies???????

I especially did not like the ......even the married women like a fling.

I'm old school...Ya mess with my wife ya got a problem! If ya bigger than me ya got a problem with my 45!

now, that's funny! dude, no one "messes with your wife". if she had a fling, it would be her own doing, and it certainly wouldn't be with me. holding a woman with threats and intimidation is ineffective but some operate on that level.

but the little guy with the gun is cool!

a single woman choosing to have a baby is more accepted in american society than abroad, apparently. i don't think most here would quite flip out about it. i still wish her success, and i think she's going to be a great mother, despite the ignorant condemnation of others.

Posted by: Spakoyna

No offense,but you strike me as a player. I have not experienced it but have seen a couple of good marriages ruined by guys who take advantage of girls on girls night out. BTW 1 ended in a pregnancy.

I think most women who are happily married but too drunk try to defend their honor,but are very vulnerable. They never have a problem if they are around respectable guys. If not...welll they have a fling as you put it.

Posted by: rnmedix

i've had married women hit on me like great white sharks. i'm not saying all of them, or even most of them, but certainly some of them. i'm sure their husbands had no idea, and if they hit on me, they'd hit on others. people have affairs, and the last to know is the spouse. when a woman hits on you, she lets you know the light is green.... as in saying "my husband is too old for me", or "i wish i wasn't married". .

and no, i'm not taking advantage of some woman, married or single who's had too much to drink. getting drunk is no excuse for having an affair anyway, and having sex with a woman who has passed out drunk is a criminal offense.

if a girl goes out on girls nite out and has an affair, the marriage was in big trouble before she went out. a woman in love wouldn't do such a thing.

Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

i think she's going to be a great mother, despite the ignorant condemnation of others.

That ignorant condemnation something is called wisdom and respect something you seem to be lacking.

When you feel like getting married, what do you think your GF will think or feel when you tell her about your sperm donation.....your vanity�..no marriage mined women of decent quality would put up with this be it a American women or Russian.

From your post on other threads what matter most to you is self gratification, the I have been there and done that syndrome, with no thought to the consequences to others or your self.

Do you honestly believe that your actions will have no consequences. All actions have a equal and opposite reaction�.be it now at the present time or 50 years down the road it will catch up to you.

Even if you have a legal document written by a lawyer saying that she will not hold you accountable for the monetary interest of the child. It is worthless as the child is represented by the state not the mother in such cases. If the mother wants money she will get it as the legal document will be no and void as the child is a miner and can not enter into a binding legal document. The rules governing child support are self invoking and you will end up paying.

What is the point of your posting? You have already made up your mind prior to posting. All you are doing is bragging about you.

Posted by: Pin Boy

yes cedarwind, i got the same impression that this guy is just bragging. as to the answer to his original question, "what should I do?" ??? keep it in your pants would be the best answer.

pb

Posted by: rnmedix

we're going to have to disagree. i say if a single woman chooses to have a child, it's her right. it's certainly legal, and since the morality police have no jurisdiction it's her business, and that's the end of it. it's certainly not a threat to you, now is it?

yes, i'd have to say the condemnation is ignorant and pompous moralizing, imho.

i'd suggest you read some feminist writings on guys finding mail order wives.. did you ever realize what terrible people you are? but wait... you sure understand yourselves and don't want to be judged, now do you? the fact that you're willing to judge her is hypocritical.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

i've had married women hit on me like great white sharks. i'm not saying all of them, or even most of them, but certainly some of them. i'm sure their husbands had no idea, and if they hit on me, they'd hit on others. people have affairs, and the last to know is the spouse. when a woman hits on you, she lets you know the light is green.... as in saying "my husband is too old for me", or "i wish i wasn't married". .

and no, i'm not taking advantage of some woman, married or single who's had too much to drink. getting drunk is no excuse for having an affair anyway, and having sex with a woman who has passed out drunk is a criminal offense.

if a girl goes out on girls nite out and has an affair, the marriage was in big trouble before she went out. a woman in love wouldn't do such a thing.

Sorry..sometimes I need to bite my toungue.

Posted by: Pin Boy

wow, you have no clue as to the implications of bringing a child into this world without an intact family structure.

pin boy

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

we're going to have to disagree. i say if a single woman chooses to have a child, it's her right. it's certainly legal, and since the morality police have no jurisdiction it's her business, and that's the end of it. it's certainly not a threat to you, now is it?

I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to the single woman's right to have a child. Moreover, I'm sure if you ask a person raised by a single mother if they regret to be born to a single parent as opposed to not to be born at all, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would say that they are pretty lucky to live on this planet.

Quote:

i'd suggest you read some feminist writings on guys finding mail order wives.. did you ever realize what terrible people you are? but wait... you sure understand yourselves and don't want to be judged, now do you? the fact that you're willing to judge her is hypocritical.

Unfortunately, majority of men looking for a wife in FSU fit the description almost to a tee.

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

But.. If your frend is determined to have a child alone, please advice her to use a sperm bank. There are specific reasons why sperm donors should remain anonymous, and legal remifications are only a part of it.

Unfortunately, majority of men looking for a wife in FSU fit the description almost to a tee.

The Laws in the UK have not long changed, and a child born from sperm donation, now has the right to know who the father was.

Why is it the womans right to become a single mother? who gave her that right? As far as I'm aware hormones don't have rights in law.

What about the childs rights to born into a stable relationship?

The childs rights to grow up, without the stigma attached to single parent families.

The childs rights to know, what its roots are.

There's a whole lot more to this than just the sex act, or handing over a bottle.

If she really has so much to give a child, why not do as someone suggested and adopt one.

John

Posted by: rnmedix

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

gentlemen, make a note of this. finally, a post that makes some sense! and you guys think you understand women and motherhood?

yes, and after reflection, i'd have to agree. she should use a sperm bank. i'm spending tommorrow with her (she's a terrific girl, though i don't want a relationship with her). but there won't be any more sex between us. i should have thought this out more carefully, but i got on a roll talking with her and one thing led to another. it would be much more fair to the child to have an anonymous father that even the mother wouldn't know.

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by clever1

Ok Here's my say on this matter and I don't care who jumps on me.

It really Pi88es me off, when a single woman decides. "Oh I'd like to have a baby"

The same goes for same sex relationships.

The was a case here where a gay couple adopted first one child then another. Why, because they were rich and could afford it.

They chose to be together, so they should accept the consequences, that they couldn't physically have a child.

There are many single men out there that would like to have a child, and would make good fathers, But because of the laws of nature they can't.

I don't care how much money she has, she shouldn't be allowed to have,

1/ artificial insemination

2/ someone like you even considering the thought of making her pregnant.

You say she earns 80k plus, what happens when she can no longer work because of the child?

I hope that if you do it, that somewhere down the line, YOU ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

Think not of her, But put yourself in the childs place in years to come, when she starts asking questions.

Can you really live with yourself for having been a part of what the child might go through ?

John

I agree John your spot on with what you have said

Regards Mark

Posted by: rnmedix

Quote:

Originally Posted by clever1

because it's not your body, and it's not your decision! nor do you have the right to condemn her for it. who put you in charge of morality? and i think she is infinitely more aware than you about the reality and issues of raising a child. compared to her, you don't have a clue. she wants a child, which is a lot more than can be said for many people who conceive . and i'd say she can give a child a lot more stability and love than someone stuck in a marriage they don't want to be in, which will be a lot of women married to guys just like you.

you know, i'd truly suggest that you should learn to understand women better. you'd have a lot more chance of making your wife happy if you'd expand your mind a bit. that you can't understand this should be a clue for you to examine yourself and your prejudices.

you hold a woman with love. there's no need for threats, control, etc. that only guarantees her misery. if you make her feel completely free as well as happy, then there is no stronger bond. the last thing you'll worry about is her fidelity. if she truly loves you, there isn't another man alive who is any competition. she's got to feel like it's her choice to have you. otherwise....

my wife will always be free to leave, and i'm much to busy concerned with other things in life than to be suspiciously tracking and controlling her. i feel sorry for women who are stuck in these relationships.

Posted by: markgm

Hi Rnmedix,

22 years ago i saw a girl for about 2 weeks we split up and never saw each other again.
Just before my 40th birthday there was a knock at my door with a pretty young lady standing there who ask if i was such and such i said yes how can I help you she said my name is such and such you used to go out with my mother and i am your daughter. I was speechless after the initial shock i invited her in and we chatted for quite a few hours about her life and how her mother had told her that her father had died before she was born. She had found out by mistake when she needed a full copy of her birth certificate and her mother had put my name on it when her mother confessed to it all it sent my daughter of the rails for about 6 months before she contacted me. She now does not speak to her mother and has now not spoken to her for 2 years.
This was a big shock to me as i was never told about her as well. I started to think what was she like as a baby, as a kid and that i had missed the best parts of her life and i was really pissed off with her mother as well.
For the last 2 years this has played on my mind alot.
this would have been alot worse if i had known about her all these years wondering what she looked like, how she was doing, does she have a boyfriend, is she still alive and so on.
So what i am trying to say to you is that this would always be in the back of your mind and you would not be able to escape thinking about a child that you have fathered it would play on your mind all the time.

Take care Mark

Posted by: martin3030

Exactly highlights one of the main points being made by several members here.

As you have first hand experience,your real life account should serve,as a warning.

Posted by: Pin Boy

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...nists/63138.htm

worth reading and considering - about children and the likelihood of abuse and neglect in step families or live in boyfriend situations. of course life throws twists and turns we cannot anticipate, but to deliberately create such a situation out of self gratification to "have" a child is inexcusable.

i've seen this waaaayy too many times than i care to remember in one of the schools where i worked for 8 years.

to in love and all:

three times in the past month at school i have heard kids who are in broken families say, "i hate my life."

and the saddest thing i ever experienced as a teacher was a fifth grade student of mine writing an essay entitled "i wish i was never born." the assignment was a state writing assessment and the subject was to be "the best day of my life." he wrote about how when his mother goes to work her boyfriend makes him "wash the same dishes over and over" and claims they are never clean enough. he went on to say how the guy never lifts and finger and "dicks with my mother everyday upstairs."

the only time i ever cried in my classroom.

pin boy

Posted by: Pin Boy

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/st...9p-330297c.html

just saw this after i completed my previous post.

an 8 year old boy hangs himself while his mother (unmarried) and grandmother are out shopping. perhaps if there was a father in the house to share with the child care duties this would not have occurred.

pb

Posted by: rnmedix

these posts show you guys still don't have a clue, and are equating a planned pregnancy with an accidental one where parties weren't knowledgeable. just because the mother is single doesn't mean the kid is going to be forced to wash dishes over and over by an angry and lazy boyfriend who mercilessly dicks his mother while he's forced to listen. honestly, you've got me rolling in laughter! how preposterous!

if you want to support your proposition that the child will have a terrible life, you need to show data from single, educated women who planned a pregnancy. in the meantime, you're trying to compare apples and oranges, and only demonstrating ignorance.

Posted by: martin3030

The original title of this thread was "Guys what should I do "?

Many of the more mature and experienced members of the RMP have given their advice and opinions (which is presumably what you invited in your post)

The messages are a mix of examples and real life scenarios which the members here DO think reflect some of the issues brought up.
If you are not going to reflect on these thats up to you.

I am a little mystified in the light of the advice you have been given,as to why you speak so negative and defensively.

So what was the point of the post ??????

Posted by: Pin Boy

roll with laughter all you want...educated single woman doesn't equate to father; half is still half and will never be whole in such a situation. of course the situations described above are not going to happen to every child, but without two biological loving parents it increases the odds tremendously.

and to laugh about a child in such a situation, being mentally abused, shows your immaturity and lack of sensitivity.

think about, RIGHT NOW, as you read this, there are children are being raped, beaten, burned - physically and mentally scarred for life. and what percentage of those children do you believe are being raised in an intact family?

and you laugh??? and admit it???

pin boy

ps the child i referred to was the son of a registered nurse - can't get too much more educated than that.

Posted by: Pin Boy

what do you define as a "terrible life?" the child who sits at school award assemblies and sees two parents beaming with pride as the child receives recognition and another child wonders what's that is like and feels a sense of incompleteness? the child who learns how to throw or kick a ball from dad and makes cookies with her mother while the child without such a family observes and pines deeply for the same thing. sounds trite and traditional, but true examples.

you can't see inside their hearts, but i have read it in the assignments they have written, the looks on their faces, the small comments they make.

another student example: a fifth grade by whose parents were divorcing, not doing homework, taking no pride in his work. i tried to motivate him to say that he was as good as, and in some areas more talented, than others in the group, and he replies with bitterness and remorse, "yeah, but they have families."

how do you quanitify that? does that fit your definition of a "terrible life"? he may not be experiencing outward signs of lifelong hurt, but it's there and as painful as any beating.

pin boy

Posted by: rnmedix

i was originally looking for a bit of pracitical advice... not moralizing. and i even stated that in my original post. after researching the issue online via legal sites, i've concluded that i can't participate in this. but it's for legal reasons, not to stop her having from having a child. i'll have to admit that it's better for her to use a spermbank for anomynity reasons as well, and if she's got to pay the fee, well, she's got to pay the fee. that's life. i'm just about to go see her now.

instead, you guys are concentrating on bashing this lady and her plans to have a child, as though you're somehow childrearing experts. give us all a break! this thread has degenerated into unintentional satire loaded with pompous moralizing. abused children come from abusive families, and there are many of those, married, single, divorced, you name it.

the only post thus far that even shows a grasp of the issues this lady is faced with was made by another woman. of course, every child needs encouragement, love, and acceptance. and a single mother who is truly commited to her child can provide these things very well. and without your approvals

Posted by: Pin Boy

of course you would side with the poster who supported your assertion that an unmarried woman can raise a child as well as two married parents. that's the point you came in with because you have some connection/attraction to this woman (the one who wants you to father the child) and you will support her position because of that connection. doesn't make it right, and you refuse to acknowledge the tremendous benefits for a child in a two parent, married family and odds in favor of that child not becoming a victim of horrible abuse. and you mock the perilous predicaments and abuses of innocent children.

not sure your age or your experience with children, but maybe someday you'll rethink your position and agree it's not the route to go no matter the level of education or income of the woman.

pin boy

Posted by: martin3030

no one has said they are child rearing experts.

The issues you talk about are sensitive ones,and its not easy to answer sensitive issues without some emotionally fuelled answers.
As much of the peoples answers are based on REAL experiences and fact,no one has suggested these will happen to your friend,but just to highlight them.
While you did state that you were not concerned with the morals,by virtue of the content of your opening lines surely you cannot expect the morality values to be ignored by the people who have been brought up to value them ?

Posted by: rnmedix

i'll challenge you guys to ask some women about what this lady is doing. if nothing else, you may learn something about the way women think.

and it may be that this is more accepted in some places than others. obviously, the best way to have a child is with two dedicated parents, but for some women, that's not an option. this lady has been looking for years, and she's running out of time. being a midwife, she's very aware of what her chances are if she waits much longer. so she's having a baby, partner or not.

since we've all made our points, there's no use to just continue disagreeing. i'd love to see some posts by women who did exactly what this lady is doing, and here their stories. i don't think we're going to see that here, however.

well, i'm off to see her now! i'm going to tell her that i can't be her

.

thanks to all who posted!

Posted by: Pin Boy

"obviously, the best way to have a child is with two dedicated parents"

finally, you've admitted the most important part (IMHO) of this discussion.

PHEW!

pin boy

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

"obviously, the best way to have a child is with two dedicated parents"

finally, you've admitted the most important part (IMHO) of this discussion.

PHEW!

pin boy

The issue in this case is not between having a child with two dedicated parents and having it with only one parent. The issue here is between having a child with one dedicated parent or not having it at all.

Obviously, many of you here think that unmarried woman does not have the right to have a child, even when she is perfectly capable to raise one and be a good loving mother. Fortunately for many children who were born to single mothers, many of these women make the decision to become mothers despite of what others would think.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

"obviously, the best way to have a child is with two dedicated parents"

finally, you've admitted the most important part (IMHO) of this discussion.

PHEW!

pin boy

So Pin Boy, if single parents so obviously harm children in your opinion, what safeguards are you going to put in place for all the widows out there?

Being a single parent or married isn't relevant.

It's the quality of the parenting that's relevant.

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

I'm not even gonna reply to this anymore.

John

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by clever1

I'm not even gonna reply to this anymore.

John

So why are you replying then?

Posted by: skinsfan

Rnmedix....i have read your posts several times....you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself..whether it is justified, or if it is wishful thinking, none of us will ever know.....but, speaking of bringing a child into the world to serve the wants of a young woman that obviously has no clue, and/or because it supports your self proclaimation of being a "stud", is totally irreponsible...if you need to write on any forum to understand what is write or wrong in this matter, then you obviously have other issues that you need to address. and on a side note....God and genetics have been very good to me, IMHO real men do not need to blow their own horn......

Posted by: Pin Boy

what safeguards would i put in so there are no widows? - simple - new law: nobody is allowed to die

Posted by: Pin Boy

it's my opinion that the majority of children raised by just one parent are burdened (maybe a little strong word choice) or live with a sense of longing for a traditional family. yes, all the feel-good, do-whatever-you-want psychobabble may try to persuade people otherwise, i just don't buy it.

pb

Posted by: skinsfan

Ditto pinboy......my wife has done a wonderful job with her children in Russia.....these children had no contact with their father for many years...now they are here with me....the children have flourished in the family unit...they love to have their Papa now......IMHO children need the models of a father and mother........

Posted by: rnmedix

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan

Rnmedix....i have read your posts several times....you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself..whether it is justified, or if it is wishful thinking, none of us will ever know.....but, speaking of bringing a child into the world to serve the wants of a young woman that obviously has no clue, and/or because it supports your self proclaimation of being a "stud", is totally irreponsible...if you need to write on any forum to understand what is write or wrong in this matter, then you obviously have other issues that you need to address. and on a side note....God and genetics have been very good to me, IMHO real men do not need to blow their own horn......

what is astounding to me is that apparently some of you guys need remediation in reading comprehension. she's an experienced midwife, who has delivered hundreds of children. to say she's clueless is just flat out stupid. yes, stupid! i don't like to use that word, but there's just not a more appropriate substitute. a child to "serve the wants"? are you kidding? how incredibly pompous!

yes dude, in the vernacular.. i am a stud

. it is what it is. only a dork would be jealous! why do you need to give me a "side note" that god has given you good genetics? are we in competition? you're doing exactly what you tell me that "real men don't do". isn't that hypocritical?

and your wife, she didn't have a successful home.. does this mean she shouldn't have had children? she didn't hook up the with right guy to have children in the holy way your prescribe.. does this mean she's morally deficient? think about it.

how did your wife do a wonderful job without a father figure? from your posts, isn't that impossible? i can't follow the logic you imply.

bottom line is that she's with her rights, she's not hurting you, and the child she raises (yes, she's extremely bright) could make a much better contribution to the world than you'll ever make. i'd like to ask who put you in charge of judging others? let me guess... you appointed yourself.

Posted by: Pin Boy

okay time to tone it down...this thread has degenerated into the realm of personal attacks...it's run its course....time to put it to bed

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone,

I need to read this thread and catch up on what happened....

(I've been working non-stop on my documentary film, lately).

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone,

This thread seemed as if it were turning in a negative and unproductive direction, so Pin Boy felt that it would be best if we closed this thread. I can understand how he wanted to use some preventive "flame" medicine, and close the thread before the atmosphere turned clearly counterproductive, and personal attacks were being leveled.

I know that members were expressing their opinions about beliefs that are important to them. Sometimes it is difficult for different people, with different deeply held core values, to talk about something controversial, without feeling slighted, offended, and while keeping the tone positive.

I personally don't want to see members arguing in a counter-productive way over something that has nothing to do with Russia and Russian culture

The Moderators are discussing now how to most appropriately deal with this thread, and threads like this.

Of course, our main aim is to take actions that create the most productive and helpful atmosphere in the forum so that we can all benefit in the greatest way possible, and so our discussions are as productive and positive as possible.

Khashyar

Posted by: Pin Boy

forum members,

i am reopening this thread with the understanding that personal attacks are never appropriate or productive and not tolerated on the RMP. members who engage in such behavior will receive warning to cease. please keep this - and all discussions - on topic and free from personal insults.

pin boy

Posted by: Samurai_Bob

me? I would not do it!
But that is me. I could not father a child and ignore the responsibility of being a Dad. But that is me.

On an objective view, which state are you in?
It will make a huge difference in what rights you have to remain out of the picture. As a biological father, I don't think in most states you will be allowed to wham-bamm and walk away.

The woman may not come after you legally, but the child will have rights too.
He/she could rock your family's world during the probate of your will for one example, or turn 18 and sue you with a pro-bono attorney and be awarded 18 years of child support for another.

I think it is too risky for the future. She should go to an agency. If you want to donate there, and she request your donation, that may provide more legal protection, but I would still not feel like it covered it all.

This is not an attack but a very serious question.

Do you have a clue what it can do to a child's development not knowing who it's father is?

Do you even care, stud?

Anyone can be a father, but not everyone can be a Dad.

Good luck in what you decide.

I am glad you were not my father.

Posted by: rnmedix

first, i am glad that i'm not your father too!

if you've read the thread you know i've called this off and why.

however, let's get to your questions:

Do i have a clue about child development? As a health professional, i'd have to say i know something. i've sure had the classes. do i think it's necessarily destructive to a child to have a single parent? no, i don't. not if that parent gives the child consistent love and discipline and raises it intelligently. i see many, many children that are raised by two parents who do a horrible job. how would i compare her child raising abilities to theirs? i'd have to say she's vastly superior.

i'm not disputing that it's best to have a child with two parents who are faithful to each other, etc., in a conventional nuclear family. that's not the issue, and it seems that a lot of folks here can't understand that.

as it's been stated, if this lady doesn't have a child in the next few years, she probably won't have a child at all. she's decided to arrange her life in such a way that she can have a child by herself. would i believe that her child would rather be alive than never conceived? of course! what do i think will happen to her child? i think he/she will be the center of her life. i'm certain that the child will have a great education and be well adjusted. that would put this child ahead of 90% of the other children born in this world.

morally, do i care? well, i want her to have a healthy child. i consider that i've got good genetics with no health problems. i'm clean and disease free. i think she's very well suited to be a mother and she's got a thorough understanding of child development (much more so than any of you guys reading here). she's going to get the sperm somewhere.

as far as my role in this? it was sperm donor * 4, all in one day. i had sex with her like a wild animal, and she sure seemed to love it. honestly, i don't see what the fuss is all about. we were consenting adults.

this thread has surprised me with how much men want to control a woman's right to have a child. it's fortunate for women that it's an impotent desire on the part of men. a woman is born with the equipment to have a child, and men don't get to play god. would you suggest jail for any woman who got pregnant without your moral approval?

oh, yes.. and for president? i'd vote for hillary clinton in a heartbeat! i think men have so screwed up this country that we ought to back up and give some women a shot at running it

Posted by: BradIL

I am not trying to flame tempers here... but I do have a question.

rnmedix... this woman is a mid-wife... and this makes her a great mother... how? What does that have to with her ability to raise a child?

Posted by: Samurai_Bob

The rest of your answer was not directed to me.
I based my posting of what it is like to not know who your father is.
I said nothing related to the answers you just gave.

I am curious how a man could father a child, and not want to be a Dad.
Good luck swinger.

I see no more to learn here.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

this thread has surprised me with how much men want to control a woman's right to have a child. it's fortunate for women that it's an impotent desire on the part of men. a woman is born with the equipment to have a child, and men don't get to play god. would you suggest jail for any woman who got pregnant without your moral approval?

Vastly oversimplified! Look... you can hump her all you want and knock her up... but that's not fatherhood. You can sire a kid, sure. There are men who take fatherhood seriously, and I guess you perspective on this is what inflamed the passions. Men don't play God... but they gotta INSEMINATE!

Quote:

oh, yes.. and for president? i'd vote for hillary clinton in a heartbeat! i think men have so screwed up this country that we ought to back up and give some women a shot at running it

Puhleeze... and Hillary-care national health care programs will improve anything? Government (at all levels) is far too intrusive as it is, we don't need more government help in our lives in America.

Posted by: Samurai_Bob

"first, i am glad that i'm not your father too!"

I was my father, and you sir,

are no I.

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Guys,

My suggestion is that we wrap up our thoughts here, express the essence of what we want to say, and then move on to other topics.

There were some good points and thoughts brought up in this thread, but I feel that it's probably time to finish up our points, and then let the thread rest.

This is my suggestion.

Khashyar

Posted by: rnmedix

as far as her qualifications as a mother? i'm sure you wouldn't dispute that she's well aware of all the issues surrounding conception/birth/neonates. now, do you think she's been in a vaccum and has learned nothing more about children? do you think that she hasn't thought this over and over and over?

wouldn't you think she's got a vast network of friends who she's delivered babies for? and yes, by golly.. some of them single mothers with happy children! wouldn't you think she's watched these children grow and develop? i don't see how anyone with the slightest bit of ability to think critically wouldn't have considered these things! can you explain what i percieve as your lack of common sense thought processes? i'm not trying to flame... i'm asking you seriously

what makes a good parent is desire to be a parent. i've never seen it stronger in anyone. remember, this is her undertaking, not mine. where did i say i was anything except sperm donor? my job was easy and a lot of fun too!

again, i'm quite surprised that this thread has turned into such an emotional outpouring of men who would love to prevent this lady from having a child. luckily for her and her child, your wishes are impotent.

and hillary as president? heck yes! compared to the idiot we've got in the white house, it would be a huge improvement! we've never had such buffoonery in office as we've got now. and yes, i believe america is ready for a woman president. i'd even like to see her pick obama, a black man, as a running mate. can you imagine? in the entire history of our nation, it would be the first time white guys aren't president and v.p. i'd call that a milestone for equality in society.

Posted by: rnmedix

i would agree that there's nothing more to add, and i'm done with this thread. otherwise, it will go on and on in circles. thanks to all who posted

Posted by: Samurai_Bob

....

Posted by: Khashyar

I think that Obama seems like a smart level-headed guy...

I'm also surprised that this was such an exciteable thread

Lot's of strong emotional opinions.

Again, I would like to wrap this thread up and proabably close it so that it can sleep off all of this excitement...

So, let's all take a deep breath and make our final intelligent concluding points.

Khashyar

Posted by: Samurai_Bob

goodnight I

Posted by: rnmedix

okay, well.. i lied. but this is my last point.

on reflection i'm wondering if this idea of a single woman having a child makes males feel threatened that they aren't needed? i honestly wonder if it's an ego thing.

and why don't we all wish her the best of success with her child? she's going to have a baby regardless of your wishes. wouldn't you all want this child to be happy and flourish? no one has even said a word about that!

now i'm done!

Posted by: Khashyar

rn...

My contribution may be surprising, but my first wife (after we divorced) really wanted a child, and she also was artificially inseminated and had a beautiful baby girl.

She actually asked me to be the father, but I told her that I didn't feel comfortable fathering a child and not being actively involved in his or her life.

My ex-wife's family has plenty of money, and my ex has a supportive mother, so the child has a pretty good chance of growing up happy.

So, I do think that a child in a single family can grow up happy, but I also believe that it's generally better to have 2 parents than one (twice the attention and availability of love-- or double the problems-- depends on the family

).

What I believe is even a healthier and more secure environment is to grow up in an extended family, where you can receive the parents' as well as the grandparents' love. This is one of the things that I like about the extended family in some countries (like Russia and certain Latino and other cultures.

Khashyar

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

as far as her qualifications as a mother? i'm sure you wouldn't dispute that she's well aware of all the issues surrounding conception/birth/neonates. now, do you think she's been in a vaccum and has learned nothing more about children? do you think that she hasn't thought this over and over and over?

Can't say I would equate knowledge of the physiology of human conception and birth with motherhood. That's not a smooth connection. Lots of women watch other women raise children... that doesn't confer or imbue great motherhood. Being a good parent is a little more than just genetics or the accuracy of observation. It appears to me, first and foremost, it calls for the ability to sacrifice, or at least subdue, your personal interest in favor of the interest of another. Is she capable of that? I make the assumption on the descriptions of her that you provide. Being a good parent is more than wanting to be a good parent.

I don't want prevent anyone from having a child; I do want them to think the matter through carefully, though. I've seen too many adults (men & women) who want children to fulfill their own needs, with little thought for the welfare of the child. I thought Pin Boy was making that point strongly with his anecdotes of what he sees in his classroom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

and hillary as president? heck yes! compared to the idiot we've got in the white house, it would be a huge improvement! we've never had such buffoonery in office as we've got now. and yes, i believe america is ready for a woman president. i'd even like to see her pick obama, a black man, as a running mate. can you imagine? in the entire history of our nation, it would be the first time white guys aren't president and v.p. i'd call that a milestone for equality in society.

Buffonery? A president who pulled this country out of a recession, with good economic growth, with low consumer inflation (excluding oil and gas prices). A president who confronts terrorists, liberates millions from tyranny in Iraq and is helping them establish a real government for the 1st time in 35 years, and a president willing to confront the institutional corruption (read:UN) that siphons billions of dollars in bribes off the backs of starving children (read:UN-Iraq oil-for-food program).

Meanwhile... billary... eh... hillary is a chief advisor of an administration that for eight years found themselves incapable of confronting Al-Qaida or Saddam Hussein, despite several attacks, either in the U-S, or on American assets. A U-S senator convinced that WMD did not exist in Iraq... but can't explain the *57* chemical and nerve agents coalition forces discovered... and certainly can not explain Iraq's attempt to buy uranium in Niger, or its negotiations to buy missiles and a missile-production system from North Korea in the months before the coalition invasion.

But I agree rnmedix... a US president who is a woman would be wonderful... and I think Elizabeth Dole should seriously consider announcing her candidacy. I'm certain she has a fair chance of getting your vote. That's wonderful to hear!!!

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

So, I do think that a child in a single family can grow up happy, but I also believe that it's generally better to have 2 parents than one (twice the attention and availability of love-- or double the problems-- depends on the family

A kid has to be careful what they wish for... eh Khashyar?

Very good.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

okay, well.. i lied. but this is my last point.

on reflection i'm wondering if this idea of a single woman having a child makes males feel threatened that they aren't needed? i honestly wonder if it's an ego thing.

and why don't we all wish her the best of success with her child? she's going to have a baby regardless of your wishes. wouldn't you all want this child to be happy and flourish? no one has even said a word about that!

now i'm done!

rnmedix... here is the center of any disagreement I have with you. These posts about your friend's decision to have a baby are centered more on her social status, her needs, her ability to trump societal preferences than it is about the child. At least this is what I pick up.

No one says a child can't flourish in a single-parent family... many do. But if you review any number of studies that have been completed in the U-S over the last 20 years... that is NOT the typical outcome.

Most single-parent families struggle with a lot of problems... and the children in those families are raised with a view of life from one gender. Some RMP members want this woman to carefully consider her choice... no one will PREVENT her from doing what she wants... but she will face an uphill battle, as will her child, if she follows through on her current plan.

This is so beyond a state of mind -or- a declaration of self... and I join those who are critical when I say... she seems so determined to have a child and I don't hear very much about the responsibility she is about to shoulder. This is so much more than a matter of money!!!

Posted by: markgm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnmedix

Hi RN,

We do wish her the best with what she wants to do and after all the end decision is yours and no one elses.
My comments were for you to think of this from a Physcological point of view in your future not hers. And having been through a similar situation myself I only found out about my daughter 3 years ago as her mother intentionally got pregnant and never let me know about it. This has ended up being very devastating for both my daughter and her mother as it has pulled them apart.
In the last 3 years this has played on my mind and i would hate to have gone through these types of thoughts for 20 years.

Take care Mark

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

Oddly this thread went a little off course....the initial question was about what you should do - to which most people answered, more or less, 'grow up'.

Obviously you never wanted to hear that, you just wanted to post about how hot you were.

As for your friend's ability to raise a child well, that is still totally unproven - the fact she is a midwife doesn't mean she can raise a kid well, that's a total non-sequitur; I hope for the kid's sake she can do a good job.

Good luck to her now. And to the kid.

Ade

Posted by: jpierce55

Dead on Ade.

I can't post my opinion of this situation any more than that.

Posted by: Leprechaun

I have not posted anything on this thread, but i will say this and this only.

(its probably (very) the only thing that needs to be said or thought about)

What about the child.

Posted by: rnmedix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade

Hi,

Oddly this thread went a little off course....the initial question was about what you should do - to which most people answered, more or less, 'grow up'.

Obviously you never wanted to hear that, you just wanted to post about how hot you were.

As for your friend's ability to raise a child well, that is still totally unproven - the fact she is a midwife doesn't mean she can raise a kid well, that's a total non-sequitur; I hope for the kid's sake she can do a good job.

Good luck to her now. And to the kid.

Ade

would it be totally unproven? to whom, you? can you tell me why she needs your approval? most women might think of you as a dork and a loser who can't score with women in his own society (and i'm being dead honest about that), and is going to russia to get a mate by shooting a fish in a barrel. so why would she need your approval? yes, and by the way... i'd suggest you get to know an experienced midwife, and come back here and tell me she knows nothing about children and child development! from the framing of your response, i think you'd be highly surprised.

what one would interpret as "growing up", another might interpret as small mindedness. whatever your fantasies may be, i'm certainly not out to impress a group of guys (this is definitely not a place to meet women) with how hot i am. that my off the cuff statement that i'm a stud would bother some so much shows something else altogether. why would you even care, unless you were making some sort of personal comparison where you came up short?

as far as the child, no one here has presented any information gathered in a systematic and scientific way. only personal anecdotal information presented as universal "truth".

i really thought this thread would bring a few posts and then sink to the bowels of the forum. khashyar should just close this thread, or it will go on forever. it's too tempting to reply, and we're going in circles.

finally, what about the child? it's existance or non-existance. whose decision is it?

Posted by: Khashyar

Ok, Everyone...

We had a bit of a chance to add our final thoughts, and now I think that it's best to close this topic.

Khashyar