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When to send money?
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Posted by: Redriveroutlaw

Hey Guys, I was wondering when it would be appropriate to send money? I have been talking with this girl in Krasnodar Russia for several months and have even spoken to her over the phone, so I can tell she is sincere and definitely not a scammer. I'd like to send her a little money, not much, just a little to help out until I can come over later this year. My question is, would it be appropriate to send money unsolicited to her? Like I said, she is genuine and I just don't want to offend her by offering money when it might be contrary to their culture, know what I mean? Thanks in advance for any advice.

Posted by: golfnut13

Never send money to someone you have never met, whether she appears sincere or not. Many scammers will wait months to show their true colors. I'm not saying she is a scammer, but you just never know. I would wait until you meet her first, and then send her money.

Posted by: j_c

Redriveroutlaw

I agree with golfnut , you just cannot be sure. Hold onto your money for now , she has managed without you helping her up to now . Save you money and use it to get that ticket to go over and visit her sooner!!!

Regards

John

Posted by: Jutman

If she has costs due to your communication, send money. And Russian pay for the call to.

Another reason to send money, if she attend english course, computer lesson for you.

But because she you never meet, be carefull. Like send a small amount of money, like 100 $.

Posted by: golfnut13

No matter how sincere a woman appears on the phone or through e-mail, you never, ever send money to someone you have never met!!! This is rule #1 in corresponding with Russian or Ukrainian women. The scammers have gotten better at their "jobs" . And it is a "job" for these scammers. Many spend several hours every day writing to foreign men, trying to get them to send money for internet or whatever. All they need is 10 men to send them $50 or $100 every month, and they are living the high life. This girl may very well be sincere, but it is always better to err on the side of caution. Once you have gone to meet her, then you can send her money. Not before.

Now, what part of all that didn't anyone understand?

Posted by: Jutman

Its matter of trust. Its matter of you being able to acheive trust in communication.
And its a cheap way to learn if she is honest. 100 bob is more economical than a trip overthere.
beside I KNOW that some woman has stopped communication, just because they can't afford it.

Of course you don't send money the first week or month. But at some point, you must have gained trust. If you read stories on the net, you will understand that a good scammer don't mind get a visit, go to bed with you and THEN scam you. The meeting is NOT a guarentee itself.

By the way. I am getting married to my lady. I send her money, before our meeting.

Posted by: j_c

This ones gonna turn into a bun fight!

I can see Jutmans point of veiw, and obviously he has been very luck with his lady!

But everybody on here will have their own opinion, redriveroutlaw , you are just gonna have to make your own mind up on this one!!!

Regards

John

Posted by: golfnut13

Jutman, I agree, it's a matter of trust. However, even if you feel you can trust her, there is still no guarantees. And yes, $100 is cheaper than an airplane ticket. But if she does this with 10 other men.... Well, I think you see my point. I have read too many horror stories in other message boards where the guy was 100% sure the lady wasn't a scammer, and then she turned out to be one several months and several thousand dollars later. You gotta go with your gut on this type of situation. There is not a clear cut way of handling it. I was just trying to make everyone look atthe other side of the equation. Hopefully I did.

Posted by: ShermanAtlanta

For me the issue never came up. She never asked for money and in fact told me that she made a very good wage for her city. About $100 a month. Once we spent a couple of weeks together and she agreed to marry me in front of and with her father's blessing, then we talked about money. She checked on the price of driving lessons, English lessons, health club, some dental work and car fare around town. To be honest, I sent her twice what she asked for so she could enjoy the time with her parents since they will not see her for a while. They went to the sea quite often and they enjoyed their time together. Right now, her parents are with her in Kiev and will say goodbye at the airport before taking the train back to Kherson. She also bought a ton of clothes since clothes are a lot cheaper there. If money is a real issue then you might want to rethink this thing. Now don't get me wrong, I want her to work eventually when she is comfortable here. But I have a second job that will allow her to stay home as long as she wants. The way I look at it, she is making a huge sacrifice to come here to be with me. Imagine the reverse. Going to live on the other side of the world and leaving everything you know and love to do it. Now back to the main point. If I trusted this girl even though we haven't met, I might send her a gift of $50 if it was her birthday, Woman's Day, Valentines day or some other event or holiday. Something that would not seem like you are trying to buy her affection. Not enough to hurt you in case the spark is not there. Just because someone writes a nice letter does not mean that you will fall in love. Good luck.
Sherman

Posted by: andrei

Dont send money. I'll tell you that a hundred bucks is an average teacher's monthly salary here, but still, send no money. You never saw her in person, right? Dont give money, man. Russian women might be Queens, but they're no Fairies. Dont send money.

Posted by: pharmrep2

I must agree with most of the people in this post, that dont send money no matter what!!!!!!! If you really want to be nice send her a nice gift like Sherman suggested. You really need to meet this girl before ever thinking about giving any money. A real sincere, honest, and modest girl will reject your offering of money. Most sincere women would get offended if you want to send them money. Like my wife even after our marriage, she would not let me help her financially to pay for driving classes and to get the documents for the immigration process, and she would get offended by it, and I am her husband.

In terms of developing trust, you dont develop trust by sending money. So dont send money. That is my 2 cents.
DAx

Posted by: Redriveroutlaw

Some excellent points, I appreciate everyone opinion. This girl has never hinted at the fact that she needs money even though she has a baby, money has never even been discussed. I was thinking about sending maybe $50, if anything, it's to pay for our correspondence because I know it's tough for Russian ladies considering how much their normal monthly income is. Yes, I have heard some real horror stories about guys who have sent money and got scammed, so I am VERY weary of sending any money. I just thought I'd ask those who have been doing this a while. Thanks again for the advice.

Posted by: Castlestormer

A good friend of mine was engaged to the perfect Russian lady. It was a match made in heaven. All systems were go. He sent her $5,000 USD to help her sick dad. He never heard from her again.

I also was burned once. Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice......

They are pros at that sort of thing.

Posted by: Keith

I never thought I would find myself in Jutman's corner but I am! And "J C" I'm not sure what a "bun fight" is but this thread and several of the mindless and cheap responses irritate me! If you are communicating with someone and YOU ARE CONVINCED she is sincere then I see absolutely nothing wrong with a few dollars to help with her communications with YOU. You'd buy your AW date dinner and movie, wouldn't you? She could communicate with you for a month on what you spend on a single date or, worse yet, waste or throw away in other ways. If you're stupid enough to send $5K then you deserve to be scammed. Do the math guys, figure out what they earn (and that is common knowledge) and add up the basics of Internet access time, translation (if necessary), scanning, printing, etc. Duh!?! It doesn't take a PhD to figure this out. If your life depends on those few precious dollars then you're a sad puppy! I think most of you so adamantly arguing NEVER EVER send money in reality are looking for reasons to not send money in the first place and this makes you feel better about it! Use your own mind, make your own decision and stop listening to these people that probably have the first dollar they ever earned. If you can't play then you don't belong at the table!

Keith

Posted by: ConnerVT

The best rule of thumb is never send money to someone you don't have a relationship with.

No matter how many letters and phone calls you may have had, you do not have an actual relationship with someone until you have met them in person. Until then, you have a relationship with what you hope and believe the other person to be.

What is your motivation in sending money? Is it to increase your value in her eyes? Is it to rescue her from a desolate, horrible existence? Is out of a true sense of honor? Give an honest and deep assesment of why you need to send money.

Afterwards, think of her reaction. A decent, honest person doesn't accept charity, regardless of the reason. To send cash unannounced, or to insist she take money, would be an insult to a person of high morale character.

Posted by: golfnut13

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
If you can't play then you don't belong at the table!

Before I met my fiancee (she's from the Ukraine), she never once asked me for money. She paid her own train fare to Kiev to meet me the first time. She pays for her own internet. We are now in the latter stages of waiting for her K1 approval from NSC (first NOA - 3/25/03). Her family sells bread products in a kiosk. The woman they had working for them stole $125 and has not been seen since. I know that this money puts a strain on them, as most of it goes to pay taxes. She refused my offer to help her because she knows I am working 2 jobs now and my money is "hard earned" (her words, not mine). She told me that she would just go without some of her "extras" for a month (manicures, beer, etc.). So you see, even when you have a relationship with a UW/RW, they are reluctant to ask for money.

Posted by: Dennis/Natasha

I agree golfnut13. Most are proud and honest hard working women who don't want nor need the pity of a man. It is nice if you can help sometimes and fair if you wait until she is here also.

I aggree to some extent what Conner had to say also:

"The best rule of thumb is never send money to someone you don't have a relationship with.

No matter how many letters and phone calls you may have had, you do not have an actual relationship with someone until you have met them in person. Until then, you have a relationship with what you hope and believe the other person to be."

But, i think time and commitment can be an indicator of a relationship.

Posted by: golfnut13

Quote:

Originally posted by Dennis/Natasha
But, i think time and commitment can be an indicator of a relationship.

But, sometimes people have so much invested in e-mails and phone calls, that when the truth is hitting them right in the face, they refuse to believe it. I think alot of us, including myself (before I met my fiancee), have "been there, done that".

Posted by: Redriveroutlaw

It seems like everytime the topic of sending money to women is brought up, it becomes a very hot topic and for good reason. There is now a whole different breed of scammers out there now with the invention of the internet. I think I might just be that much wiser if I should at least "offer" to pay for our correspondence. From what I gather, most internet cafes charge roughly $1 per hour, so $20 should be enough to cover 3 or 4 months of our correspondence. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "Buy" her, pay her bills, support her parents or baby in the least, just doing what I think is right at this point in our relationship and offer to pay for our correspondence. We have made plans for me to travel to Krasnodar in November and after that meeting, I'll be better able to judge her intentions, but from what I get from her so far, she is sincere, time will tell.

A little background as to where I'm coming from, I initially started corresponding with quite a few women from Russia, Ukraine and Romania and have narrowed them all down to this girl. I'm not choosing her simply because of her beauty, I chose her from reading and paying attention to what she has been writing to me. The fact that she is a bit hesitant about introducing me to her parents is understandable because after all, I am a stranger to her. She often writes to me and tells me about her families good times and bad, she doesn't ask for pity or compassion, she let me know that the father of her 7 month old baby ran out on them, she didn't ask for money. Talking on the phone with her is pretty trying because her English is about as bad as my Russian, but we are working on that barrier. Thanks again for the advice.

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi guys....

Yes, let's not have a bun or any other fight here

This is an important topic to consider, and I think that there may be a few good firm rules, but then you also need to consider your individual circumstances...

In general, I think that it is not wise to send money to someone you are communicating with over the internet.

There is an old saying: "no money, no scam."

But, I do believe that once you meet and are seriously and clearly commited to a person, and you feel fully comfortable and don't observe or sense any red flags, then it is o.k. to send small amounts of money for reasonable things.

During the first few months of my communicating with my wife Lena, I offered to send her money for her internet use, and she firmly did not accept in each of the times that I offered.

After we were engaged and I had spent 6 weeks with her in her home country and environment, I started to send her money for her internet use as well as what she needed to prepare for her visa....

Lena made $40 per month as a teacher in Belarus, and in the first months of our communication before we met, she spent about $20 to $30 per month in writing me almost daily emails-- all without accepting money from me...

But, my feelings is that if you feel like you and your Russian lady are serious about one another, that it can be o.k. to send ENOUGH MONEY TO COVER HER EMAILS TO YOU, as well as sending some small gifts..... But, I think that it is important to be aware of whether her actions in emailing you correspond to the money that you sent her.....

For example, it costs about $1 per hour (or so) for a Belarusian woman to spend time on a computer to write emails from an internet cafe......

If you sent your Russian girlfriend $30 in a month, be aware whether you estimate that she inspending about 30 hours poer month writing you.....

Also pay attention as to whether she is answering your specific questions in her emails, and definitely speak to her on the phone to make sure that she is real and that you have some kind of real relationship developing with her....

But, I think to send some money to make it easy for your Russian girlfriend to email you is o.k., at a time that feels comfortable to you, as long as you can observe that she is spending this money towards emailing you and getting to know you better...

But, I would not send $1,000, or even $300, and perhaps not even $200, unless you have met, are engaged, trust this person in your bones, and as long as this money is being used for her visa (like ADIT photos, travel to her visa medical exam, etc...)

So.... it is good for each person to keep these things in their minds and do what feels right in their bones and instincts....

Khashyar

Posted by: Keith

Quote:

Originally posted by golfnut13
So you see, even when you have a relationship with a UW/RW, they are reluctant to ask for money. [/B]

Yet again, EACH INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCE is different! With all due respect, you are sterotyping all UW/RW and I don't think your single experience qualifies you to make such a broad claim. So many of you seemingly tie a reluctance to ask for money only to UW/RW...I don't know of too many cultures where that is pleasant experience for anyone.

If you put someone you're honestly serious about in the position of having to ask, then shame on you! Ya know, there are some fundamental differences between the West and East and personal wealth and income are certainly among them! So dance around the "real issue" (addressed in previous posting) all you want.

The lady I'm interested in didn't ask...SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO! I was mature enough, sensible enough and man enough to figure it out. She repeatedly wouldn't answer the question I put to her about her costs of communicating with me. I think she finally got tired of dodging the question and answered me. I did some elementary calculations and then informed her there was a money transfer waiting on her and she should probably go down and pick it up. She quietly did so and thanked me and I know she was grateful. I have no intention of mentioning the issue again to her. If I don't speak to her ever again, the few dollars I sent is not going to destroy my life. Some guys seem to enjoy forcing someone to their knees to beg you? Treat people with a little dignity and respect.

Keith

Posted by: Keith

Quote:

Originally posted by Dennis/Natasha
Most are proud and honest hard working women who don't want nor need the pity of a man.

No matter how many letters and phone calls you may have had, you do not have an actual relationship with someone until you have met them in person.

"Pity"? Hmmm, I must disagree with you and my dictionary precisely defines "pity" as "compassion" and as "to give relief or aid." If that is what I'm doing, then yes, I'm guilty as charged! So is there something wrong with a little compassion? I am proud that it is a part of my human nature to able to exercise "pity" on my fellow man especially when there are pronounced differences in our economies. It is also consistent with my spiritual teachings and practices.

"Relationship"? Well, Webster (and I) again disagree with you. A relationship is a "emotional or other connection between people" or "romantic involvement." I have not physically met the person that I am communicating with but, we have after months chose to focus on communicating with each other only. I certainly consider myself in a "relationship" with this person using the common definition above.

Keith

Posted by: rtking

I think that each person's circumstance is different and each person should act accordingly.

As a general rule, I think it's best not to send money to people you haven't met. But conversely, I think that if you've established a relationship and are communicating (via email and/or telephone), then perhaps it might be OK to offer a little assistance.

I don't think I would ever send a huge sum of money, but if I felt comfortable with the person I was corresponding with, then sending a nominal amount seems acceptable to me. With the lady I'm currently corresponding with, I feel that sending $100 is within reason. But that's my personal situation. Each person must assess his or her own comfort level in offering assistance.

As Keith stated, his Russian Lady didn't want to answer his question about money. In my experience, my Byelorussian Lady was the same way... but I was able to determine what her internet costs were and sent an appropriate amount of money to help offset these costs (and enough for a few extras.)

Would I send money to my Byelorussian Lady after 2-3 months of emails? Probably not. But after a half-year of emails, phone calls, and that we're writing only to each other, I personally feel comfortable enough to send some money.

Bob K.

Posted by: Dennis/Natasha

I have always felt pity carries with it a weight and measure where benevolence does not.

Many guys "run to the rescue" and carry the flag of pity high. Yet we all know some examples where people give so they can get...in fact claim the right of getting.

I have sent Natasha $ for different things over time and for various reasons. I am sure if I ever calculated how much, some would say it was too much and I should have never sent it.

The thing is, I can't tell you how much because I never kept a record of it and gave it from my heart without expectations. I have seen how hard and what sacrifices and equal contributions she has made for our love.

One example of her commitment: I am a busy guy and very often cannot chat until after 6 pm my time...she is waiting to talk and waits everyday until I can no matter the hour and at times for a few hours. There is an 8 hour difference between us.

6pm = 2 am

She has never once complained about it.

I think she is exceptional and I would never, even now, expect her to wait all night. Very often I have forced her to get some sleep because I feel guilty about how much she does for us.

The point I am making is:
You see, I trust her and had a foundation for my trust. Still, I think for any man sending money to anyone they should be clear about the realities of their relationship.

We have talked from time to time about how easy guys could be scammed by a woman.

Let me break it down.

One woman who asked for a small amount lets say $50 or less each month claiming a need for English lessons, computer lessons, Internet cafe' and so on. Most guys will say. "Hey no problem... $50 well spent for a soul mate."

What he may not know: She can say the same thing to 10 other guys and keep the feel of "dedication" between her and guy #1. Even sending a letter a day to these guys is very easy with name replacement found on almost every Word softare.

This is why it is SOOOOO important you don't just hear about her life, dreams and her desire to love but to really ask life questions and get some honest, from the heart, answers.

Guys are suckers and paint an easy target on themselves by thinking they are the clever ones in this game. The woman holds all the cards if you are committed to the effort and really are looking for someone. Dispite the kind of life you think you offer her over her own life she must in the end give up much to get what you offer.

Posted by: ShermanAtlanta

One thing I notice in this thread is that most people seem to think that they know the right way to do it. The reality is that every situation is different. He should do what he wants to do after hearing everyone out. It is obvious that he wants to send her money. We have opinions from Yes to no and every thing in between. Also everyone seems set in their belief. In the end he should do whatever his conscience allows. Good luck I say.
Sherman

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
"Relationship"? Well, Webster (and I) again disagree with you. A relationship is a "emotional or other connection between people" or "romantic involvement." I have not physically met the person that I am communicating with but, we have after months chose to focus on communicating with each other only. I certainly consider myself in a "relationship" with this person using the common definition above.

By your (Webster's) definition, you do not as of yet have a relationship with this woman. You have a relationship with the words she writes, and the medium in which you communicate.

As another graduate of the "been there, done that" class, I have had emotions and opinions change almost instantaneously once meeting women who I believed I had a budding relationship with. It defies logic to explain, but then, so does emotion and romance when it comes to relationships. From the several people who have been telling you the same thing here, you may want to trust our experience.

By your own admission, you have not actually met the person you are communicating with. The others suggesting advice have. You can do as you wish, this is your choice. But is it fair to offer advice to others on the subject?

Posted by: Khashyar

I just arrived home, and need to step out to do some things with Lena, but I want to respond some more to this topic...

However, I wanted to say quickly that I appreciate that we can disagree on something, express our different opinions, and still respect the people we are not agreeing with...

Thank you, and I will write more later regarding our topic....

Khashyar