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Erm... WTF???
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Posted by: bingism

This might be deemed to be in the wrong place... feel free to move it mods.

Has anyone else had this experience? I rarely ask this type of question, but this is a new one on me...

I've been meaning to get round to seriously attacking my Russian Language course and today (work was very dull) I plugged myself into the CD player for a couple of hours. Now feeling very stupid. Even though I already speak French fluently and a good foundation in German, Italian and Spanish, I'm finding it real hard to get my tongue, ears and brain all working Cyrillic - but that's another story.

OK, when M asked me on the phone what I'd learnt I proceded to try out my newly acquired Russki and instead of some assistance, all I get is laughter and "I'm tired from your Russian already... please stop". This is a joke apparently... anyway, after I dutifully threw my text book to one side, in a manner reminiscent of a 3-year old toddler, I get told that it's not necessary to learn Russian because we will live in England. I explained that I want to be able to talk with her friends and family (none of which speak English) and that I need her help not only laughter... A little taking the p**s out of me is to be expected, but not all the time lol. She really doesn't want me to make the effort to learn the language. Strange thing is that she was quite upset when I explained that I want to do it so that I can speak with her family and especially her mother and sister at our wedding.

Now, I'm pretty sure I've missed a big signal somewhere along the lines and hence thought I would ask if anyone else has encountered similar...

Bing
(it's also "that" time of the month, which may just explain all lol)

Posted by: lester

Yes Bing, it's very odd to me too.
I would have thought it a major "brownie point" for you to learn at least some basic tourist type words. After all, you will be visiting relatives out there on occasions after marriage and you must be able to at least say a little something to them.
Sorry Bing, can't think of any reason why M is talking this way.
You'll have to learn Russian secretly! hehe.

Posted by: bingism

I'm sticking with my "time of the month" theory.... lol

Posted by: inlove

did you ask her why she does not want you to learn the language?

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

did you ask her why she does not want you to learn the language?

Yep... she just said "if I want to learn Russian it is my decision"... I have a few ideas:
1. it really is just a "time of the month" session of being irrational
2. she is a little jealous that I want to speak with her family without her help
3. she probably enjoys that she can speak Russian to someone and I won't understand (a security blanket if you will)
4. maybe she's embellished or omitted a few minor details as we all have a propensity to do sometimes (simple white lies) and is nervous I will get the wrong end of the stick if I find out
5. she really can't see whu I want to learn Russian when we will live in England
6. it really is just a "time of the month" session of being irrational lol

Posted by: inlove

#3 and #4 seem like the most logical explanations, although for that to occur, you would have to know russian pretty well. It could be #1 and #6, who knows.

Off-top: I always found it cute when a foreigner makes an attempt to speak russian, even badly.. Honey started learning Russian recently, hoping to eventually go to Russia with me, and being able to get around and order a beer on his own..He often sounds funny, but he is making a real effort, and there is some definite progress.

Posted by: bingism

Thanks InLove... unfortunately M gets it pretty bad on a monthly basis... I wouldn't want to be in her shoes (although being in mine is a little difficult lol). Don't worry, my Russian is awful, but I can order beer, wine, coffee and get cigarettes lol I even know how to ask for a zhazhagalka and pepernitza - sorry for bad transliteration!!! For some reason I know such words as ticklish (shikotna?).....
Bing
PS. thinking back, my Russian must be quite funny, because her father rolled around in laughter for 10-minutes after I asked his wife for the "butelka vina i shtopper"... you get the picture lol

Posted by: inlove

Cute. For some reason Honey seems to have the hardest time with POZHALUYSTA.

Posted by: bingism

hmmm... not my most difficult word! Try giving him this transliteration:
"pazhIoosta" with the "I" pronounced like "I have a cold"... let me know if I'm wrong lol I've always found English-Russian and Russian-English transliterations to be 100% useless

Posted by: inlove

The combination of ZHAYLU gives Honey a moughful.

Anyway, you can throw away AY altogether, and say POZHALSTA. It is not a right prononciation by the book, but people will understand you just fine.

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

The combination of ZHAYLU gives Honey a moughful.

Anyway, you can throw away AY altogether, and say POZHALSTA. It is not a right prononciation by the book, but people will understand you just fine.

I'll never get to the bottom of this language... lol I suppose is just the same as "thank-you" = "thanks" = "ta" = "cheers"

Posted by: Eryk

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

hmmm... not my most difficult word! Try giving him this transliteration:
"pazhIoosta" with the "I" pronounced like "I have a cold"... let me know if I'm wrong lol I've always found English-Russian and Russian-English transliterations to be 100% useless

Transliterations that Russians use are confusing because they are often plain "wrong" in English ...using the letter 'o' when you mean 'ah' being the most common one:

Spasibo = Spasibah

Poka = Pahka

...etc.

As for 'please', I would transliterate as Pahjahlstah.

Eryk

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eryk

Well, I'm not very good with transliteration on the first place.
As for O and AH, there is a rule. If O is not under stress, it is pronounced more like AH, although not a long AH. If it is under stress, it is a full O. so yeah, for PAHJAHLSTAH, would be right.

On another note, Honey was very excited about spelling of russian word for restaurant. Now he remembers that pectopah is russian RESTORAN.

Posted by: Mr.Humble

dunno if i'd want my schtopper touched either.....(hehe...kiddin')

Posted by: Eryk

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

As for O and AH, there is a rule. If O is not under stress, it is pronounced more like AH, although not a long AH. If it is under stress, it is a full O.
...
On another note, Honey was very excited about spelling of russian word for restaurant. Now he remembers that pectopah is russian RESTORAN.

Yes, I know the rule, but since there are no accents to indicate the stress there is no way to tell how to pronounce it unless you already speak the language which sort of undermines its usefulness when trying to learn the language in the first place

As for "Pectopah", I empathise - that was the first word I ever felt 'comfortable' about in Russian too

Eryk

PS: We have a little black and white stuffed cow which I named "Patchy-moo" years ago. We used to practice Russian on the bus having conversations like: "Where is Patchy-Moo?" - "Patchy-Moo is on the table." - "What is Patchy-Moo doing?" - "Patchy-Moo is sleeping." --- Hilarious watching the other passengers trying not to stare at the obviously 'insane' people

Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Cute. For some reason Honey seems to have the hardest time with POZHALUYSTA.

I would second that for some reason I also have a hard time with that word. The other word that always gets me is sleduyushchey.

I try hard but I always end up with the GF and my Translator laughing and telling me to repeat the words so that they can laugh some more. They find this quit fun but I am sure if I was to do the same to their English the response from that end would be different.

But my GF is actually happy that I try to learn Russian. She wants me to be able to speak with her mother and her friends and she helps me learn different words. Each time we email she sends me some new words to learn.

AS for bingsim thoughts, I would agree with inlove probly she is a little worried at what little trivial things you may find out about her and she will lose some of her security. I directly told my GF I was going to learn Russian and she told me that was good as it would be something she could help me with and it would keep her entertained and laughing for a long time to come.

Posted by: Ade

Hi Bing,

It is a little odd, but as you speculate it may be a security blanket at the moment as she settles in to her new home.....but do keep learning, it's something that she can help you with ultimately and will help you be a little closer....and it all helps

Ade

p.s. phrases come in all sorts of usefulness...the first phrases I learnt, before I went, were from my East German friend, who said they would be useful in dealing with the police or airport officials; Seida said that using them on the streets of Bratsk would likely get me knifed or shot

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eryk

PS: We have a little black and white stuffed cow which I named "Patchy-moo" years ago. We used to practice Russian on the bus having conversations like: "Where is Patchy-Moo?" - "Patchy-Moo is on the table." - "What is Patchy-Moo doing?" - "Patchy-Moo is sleeping." --- Hilarious watching the other passengers trying not to stare at the obviously 'insane' people

We used to do something similar in France... many a skiing holiday was spent discussing (and asking the locals after we'd consumed a little beer) the whereabouts of the monkey lol "pardon Monsieur, ou est le singe??" and "est-ce que le singe dans les arbres???" We got quite a few funny looks lol

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade

It is a little odd, but as you speculate it may be a security blanket at the moment as she settles in to her new home.....but do keep learning, it's something that she can help you with ultimately and will help you be a little closer....and it all helps

Cheers Ade... I intend to, because she's always so knackered after talking all day in English that I'd like to be able to take the pressure off her sometimes...

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Cute. For some reason Honey seems to have the hardest time with POZHALUYSTA.

inlove-- I appreciate your posts in this thread, along with Eryk's. I'm trying to learn pronunciations via k-neega Russian, and pronunciation is a major problem.

Is Honey using a beginner's Russian book to learn? If you have looked at it, do you agree with the sounds attributed to the Russian alphabet?

I ask because I am having a devil of a time getting the pronunciation of the cyrillic (in English here) ly... which is indicated as 'lye', and similiar ('dye'--'gdye'--'rye'). Any tips on English words that could get tongue, lips and jaws working together?

Posted by: Eryk

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

'gdye'--'rye'). Any tips on English words that could get tongue, lips and jaws working together?

Gdye = G-d-ye(ah) ....end the word as though starting to say "yeah" in a bored/casual tone of voice.

Eryk

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

Honey is using a set of CDs and some internet resources. He has a book, but it seems a book format is not for him. Eryk gave you a good idea about gdye. "Yeah" is a good word for the occasion, just don't forget to change Y to GD.

Posted by: That1Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Cute. For some reason Honey seems to have the hardest time with POZHALUYSTA.

This is not one of the words I have difficulty pronouncing, however, there seems to be more than one way to pronounce it. It sounds to me as it (sometimes) the third syllable is dropped. So, in effect I hear Pozhalsta instead of Pozhaluysta. I am I hearing it wrong?

Posted by: That1Guy

Now, here's one - all I could do was laugh when I first heard this phrase! As happens often, my first impression is that I'll NEVER be able to get my mouth to do that!

�*��*��*��́��?

Fortunately, the software has a "turtle" button that slows the rate of speech.

But I still stumble over the last word nearly everytime I try to say it. I have to pause between �� and ��́�� and again between "ras" and "prodazha". I think I can mimmick all the sounds needed, it just that when certain sounds follow other certain sounds, my mouth gets confused.

Posted by: That1Guy

Now that I am thinking about it, I have a question about vocal inflection when asking a question in Russian. The speaker featured in my software will sometimes raise the pitch of the last syllable of a question, and at other times will not. How do you know when to do this, and when not to?

Posted by: jpierce55

I am slowly learning a word here and there taught by a Serbian, some words are the same as Russian. I can replicate the sounds exactly and that amuses him. When I tried that on Elena once it seemed to insult her that I could do it.

I suppose it may just be that it makes her feel special or different. Or it may be that since she plans on moving to you that she needs to work on her English more than you do on your Russian.

Posted by: scotch

Hey bingism,

just wanted to add .. I went out with a Romanian girl for 7 years and even after all that time I wouldnt know how to greet another Romanian. She didn't want me to learn because she didn't want to associate with that culture anymore than she had to. It wasn't like a complete rejection of her old culture, but she just wanted to move on.

Perhaps it is the same with some Russian women who seek western men?

scotch.

PS. personaly I say stuff that, Im gonna talk Roosski even if it's bloody lousy ..she will either help me or listen to me speak like a 2 year old.