Guidelines for the "Scam" section - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Guidelines for the "Scam" section
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Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone,

It certainly is appropriate to educate one another about scams, what they look like, and how to keep safe from them. Our aim at the RMP is to educate, inform and serve the highest interest of our members.

I do think that we need to be careful to post photos and names of people who are allegedly, or even probable scammers, because:

Firstly, a criminal may be using an innocent person's name and photo to perpetrate a scam, and therefore publically "convicting" a person of scamming without 100% certainty, is something that I am not sure if I feel comfortable with.

Secondly, when an individual posts information about an alleged scammer, we are receiving one side of the story, and although I am not saying that this is true in all cases, there is a real possibility of a person being labeled a scammer just because they rejected a suitor.

I wish, in fact, that we could automatically contact both parties and receive both sides of the story so that we can get a full picture of the story.

Thirdly, there are many sites on the internet which, fairly and unfairly, post photos and names of reported scammers.

The RMP moderators and I are thinking about fair and effective guidelines for posts in the scammer section, that would present helpful educational information about scams and scamming techniques/scenarios, while at the same time safe-guarding potentially innocent people being falsely labeled scammers.

Of course, people who scam and commit crimes should be stopped-- I am not sure if our discussion forum is the best place to do this.

I will post more information about the proposed "Scamming" section guidelines , so that I can receive your input on the guidelines.

Please feel free to post your comments in this thread.

Thank you,

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone,

Here the initial porposed guidelines for the scammer section:

Quote:

"In fairness to all parties, and to protect innocent parties from mistaken accusations, we have decided to create some guidelines for the RMP 'scam' section. In some cases, a "scammer" may be using another person's name and images to purpetrate faudelent actions, or someone may be accused of scamming without clear verifyable evidence. These guidelines are meant to allow users of our forum to discuss, share information and learn about specific scams, while at the same time offering some basic protections for people who may be accused in error. There are other websites that allow posting of names and photos of "scammers," so please feel free to use those sites for specific names and photos, and use the RMP scam section as a resource for learning about and discussing specific scams. Please observe these guidelines when posting in the scam section:"

1) No posting of LAST names or images of alledged "Scammers." You may post all details of a "scam," as well as the alleged scammer's first name and city, but without posting a person's LAST name or image.

2) You may post emails or letters that were sent to you, excluding the person's last name.

3) You may discuss specific agencies, and specific scams that may be occuring through agencies. We of course encourage agencies accused of improper behaviour to respond to these allegations.

4) (additional guidelines) ?

(these guidelines updated Jan 23, 2006)

Please feel free to add your suggestions and comments about these guidelines so that we can develop and implement the most effective and fair guidelines for our Scammer section.

Khashyar

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

I would think that if a persons name and/or photo's are going to be published on the net as a scammer then the person posting this information MUST also indicate the relevant authorities that have been notified about the particular case in question. This does two things, 1. Puts the onus on the poster to prove they are indeed doing some positive work towards stoppin the scammer in question, and are not just jilted cybers lovers, and 2. pobably stop she posting as in any western countries that operate under common law you cannot divulge information about a case/investigation that is currently underway unless you are the investigating officer or court.

Also the poster should then indicate from the begining all the relevant details and not add informtion as time goes on and questions are raised about the thread. Embarrasing or not if you are game enough to start a thread about a scam situation then you should be gam enough to give all relevant infomation that could help others to not get scammed.

By no means should any advice be given that could jepardise a case or investiagtion that is underway. Nobody knows all the legal systems in the FSU. We might by simply playing with an alledged scammer and inadvertantly harming a real investigation.

These are just some ideas. But my main feeling is unless the authoirities are involved don't post anything. If they are involved only post with their knowledge and permission.

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks for your thoughts, Oz...

I can undestand what you are saying that a poster of a scammer could be considered more real if we knew that they contacted the authorities about a potential scammer.

But, how do we actually know that this person contacted the authorities? Do they mail us a copy of a letter that they received from the police? How do we verify that it was not forged?

I think that it would be almost impossible to verify the truthfulness and accuracy of what someone posts, unless someone could personally vouch for that person.

So, I think that the less conplicated method is to have a clear set of guidelines.

Actually, what could help others who might be being "Scammed" by the same person, is if a user posts the FIRST name of the alleged scammer, as well as which city they live. And then, perhaps posting emails (with last names deleted) that was received by them.

This shoudl be enough information to alert others who are being "Scammed" by the same person.

(I am going to update the guidelines above with these added specifics.

Khashyar

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Bascally here is the drill for my current situation, take from it what you will. Someone who I was extremely close to has slanerd me on 3 web sites, 1 of which is similar to this, 2 of which are not in Oz, and 1 of which is supposed to be a fundamenalist Christian, good old fashioned values website (BTW I have no prob with that). Becuase 2 of these websites took on face value the word of someone who they could not verify their identity, they have by common law engaged in an act of slander as accesories after the fact. Without giving the aggrieved person, which in this case is me, an avenue to state the case they have willfully propogated a slanderous action which has gone further.

OK becuase of this I am entitled to do a couple of things. 1 get into a slanging match to address my case (this will never work, tried it once and ended miserably) 2. contact the websites/forum concerned asking the owners, moderators etc. to remove the slanderous statements becuase they did not try to verify the information themselves b4 they allowed it to be posted or in the case of the forum did take appropriate action by not deleting the offending thread within the next working day (Still to this day 2 years later it is online), 3. If these actions are not taken I can and have the lega and apparently moral right to take each sites owners/moderators to court to gain redress for the wrong committed. Further to this I can and believe me I am still thinking about this take the individual concerned to court and gain redress for her actions.

Now a worst case scenario is. Someone falsly makes an accusation, posts minute details which leads people to know who is being spoken about. This person is not found ina court of law to have done anything wrong. This person then decides becuase they like the western way they will take action. WHere does that leave you, as the site owner, and the moderators, who help you keep the site functioning? (And BTW I feel you are all doing an excellent job). It is basically upto you but I think we need to remember we are talking abput people who have feelings, scammer or not, the action must be proven or the law could come back at you. I know of other scammer/blacklist sites that will not take information unless they can contact you and the legal authorities you claim to be using. They are doing this to save their legal butts. At least one has ben told by a legal court to remove the information published as it was malicious slander created by a jilted cyber lover.

Posted by: deccie

There is of course the other component that even though a particular FSU correspondent follows the patterns of a scammer does not mean either that the name is correct or whether the photos belong to the person scamming.

As others here will attest they have sent money to their partners before meeting and they were being told correct information.

So, asking for money does not prove scamming either.

Now, I'm not advising anyone to do that - it certainly is a high risk activity but is it at all a stretch of the imagination that sometimes a person could find no where else to turn but a "new" relationship over the internet?

Does it disprove that the majority of these scenarios are scamming? Certainly not - but I have no doubts some on the blacklists are not what they have been puported to be either.

Personally I think the best course of action for RMP is to stay out of *who did what to whom* battle and use the extensive experience of the administrators to vet who is let onto the personals part.

Posted by: ham

i think that without names and pictures the whole game becomes useless.
sure, i have said for ages that it may be Oleg with a bunch of stolen or bought pictures and some woman to lend her identity to him against a %, perhaps using some faked ID as western union etc are not the secret service equipped to deal with it; they need just a control number and often not even that.
* NEVER SEND MONEY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
* VISAS ARE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN: CHECK WITH THE COMPETENT EMBASSY FIRST.
* HAVE A VERY REALISTIC APPROACH WITH YOURSELF FIRST.

but some gullible or vulnerable people may be tempted to do it, and most pictures, names & letters have been around for ages.
http://www.geocities.com/a280872/scammers1.html
So let's play the sissy devil's advocate & let's wait for the money loss while we quarrel over the benefit of the doubt, so we can blame the sucker, instead of warning him.
Once money is gone, however, of what use are antiscam page?

I am not a big believer in antiscam lists, but without pictures & names, then it's better to just close the scam section or totally forbid dealing with indicting reports.

Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

i think that without names and pictures the whole game becomes useless.

I am not a big believer in antiscam lists, but without pictures & names, then it's better to just close the scam section or totally forbid dealing with indicting reports.

I second this! What is the point if you can not list the names and show the photos?

Posted by: OzGuyLooking

Can I just suggest that if Kashyar decides to go through with a blacklist/scammer type thing that Kashyar and the US Moderators get a good Internet savvy Lawyer to tell them of the pros and cons. There are many pitfalls to this type of thing and is it really worth the legal hassle and the possible ruination of a damm good forum to have something that is in plentiful supply elsewhere on the net anyway. I really think the legal issues, and there are many, far outweigh the possible benefits for this site at least.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedarwind

I second this! What is the point if you can not list the names and show the photos?

There are plenty of sites on the Internet where you can list the names and show the photos. You can report these details to the black lists, anti-scam sites, etc..

Posted by: EasyTarget

I have thought about this for the last few days. I think members should talk about what happened to them when they got scam. A good example is what happened with Clever1. He talked about what happened and he could have omitted names & the name of the agency. The more important thing is we all learned from his experience.

Then if an individual thought they were being scammed by the same person or agency they could send a private message to the poster and ask for details. It is possible that Boris is scamming two RMP members at the same time. Boris has to eat, right?

Posted by: ham

you need no Perry Mason.
Just put a disclaimer on every page of the scam section with names (if so is decided ).
Those who wave a lawyer are usually crooks & chipped shoulders.
If you're clean, there is nothing to worry about.
one idiot once wanted to (pur)sue me because i had laughed at him (he's among the laughing stock of the net ) and had caught him trolling...yea right...
My bank wanted to sue me after i called them crooks for some affair appeared in a newspaper about mismanagement having caused a loss to all shareholders...so ok -i say- you go your way & i go to the police...never heard of them ever since, and authorities are investigating the mismanagement.

i still think that rather than cr@pping one's pants every time some alias threatens fantasy lawsuits, it is best to close the scam section down...because even when men had receipt for money sent, letters etc, still bleeding hearts found reasons why names shouldn't be divulged.

Posted by: matthewvassoff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

Thanks for your thoughts, Oz...

I can undestand what you are saying that a poster of a scammer could be considered more real if we knew that they contacted the authorities about a potential scammer.

But, how do we actually know that this person contacted the authorities? Do they mail us a copy of a letter that they received from the police? How do we verify that it was not forged?

I think that it would be almost impossible to verify the truthfulness and accuracy of what someone posts, unless someone could personally vouch for that person.

So, I think that the less conplicated method is to have a clear set of guidelines.

Actually, what could help others who might be being "Scammed" by the same person, is if a user posts the FIRST name of the alleged scammer, as well as which city they live. And then, perhaps posting emails (with last names deleted) that was received by them.

This shoudl be enough information to alert others who are being "Scammed" by the same person.

(I am going to update the guidelines above with these added specifics.

Khashyar

Id like to know if there is a way for a person to make contact with another person whom they have met thru the use of the web address as a locator. We see this all the time in the movies, Is it just another Hollywood special??
Im wanting to reach a particular woman whom Ive met, who is saving up
to make the trip to visit here in the US. She posted a letter that said she was going to have to stop using the Net-Club to help with the saving project and that seems believeable give to the current economy and wage status in her region. My issue is I think she missed the point I tried to make about me being more likely to come up with the tickets in a short amt of time due to my financial differences. So how does a guy get help with location and translation. I only have a first name and a town and the kind of job she works at in that town. Not a lot to go on but...Benefit of the doubt???
Id like to drop in and visit, It would be a suprise to see the look on her face.
M Vassoff

Posted by: permaisetia

nice info!!