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Practical guide to Russian culture.
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Posted by: That1Guy

I have seen discussions that reference differences in culture between Russians and people from western countries such as America, but have never been able to really nail down what exactly this means in a practical sense. What is the value in knowing that there are cultural differences? As I thought about this, I wondered if these differences could actually be identified. Intuition tells me that this should be possible, and at least some differences would be glaringly obvious. Also, once these differences are identified, what could be their significance when individuals from the two cultures become romantically involved, and eventually begin a family, in effect merging the two cultures? Is there any practical value in learning what these differences are? If we can learn them, what can we learn from them, and how can we put these lessons to productive use?

At a glance, it seems to be a silly and perhaps even pointless exercise. Of course there are cultural differences, and of course we can learn important lessons from them! We know this intuitively. But, what are these lessons, and how can we benefit from studying them? I looked up several definitions of culture, and from those results, I compiled a composite definition that I rather like. Although it does not completely encompass all meanings of culture, and necessarily omits some important meanings, I like it because it seems well suited to the aim of this discussion, which might be thought of as a discussion of culture on a very personal level.

Culture: Shared behavior patterns, beliefs, values, and language that are passed down from generation to generation.

One problem that plagues any discussion involving large numbers of people is that each person is unique, and because of this, the manner in which their culture is expressed by them, will also be to some extent, unique. But, according to our definition culture is made up of things that are shared, and passed down to succeeding generations. So, I suppose the first part of this discussion could serve to identify how Russian culture manifests itself in the individual. What are the outward (or inward I suppose) aspects that make a person particularly Russian? Can we list shared behavior patterns, beliefs, and values that all, or maybe most Russian people share? In compiling this list, it would be very interesting (for me anyway) to see some examples of how these are exhibited by Russian individuals.

Another part of the discussion I would like to participate in would be how we can benefit from understanding the expressions of culture in an individual. (Facts alone have no practical value).

I’ll take the easiest one: Their language! Ok, that was rather cowardly of me, but I figured we could get that one out of the way immediately. There is at least one other thread that includes many points of view about language differences, and the effects it has on relationships. I believe one is titled “Is Russian Language Important in a Relationship?” for those who would like to read or participate in that discussion. I feel there is a lot more left to discuss there, but no need to start another thread.

I find the notion that there are shared behavior patterns among members of a culture particularly interesting. Can anyone describe some, and tell how individuals they know exhibit them? It is interesting!

I read that women who were young during the communist era, were completely indoctrinated into the communist system during their school years. For example, at age 10 they had to become a “Pioneer”, and by age 14 had to become a “Comomolec”, and so on. According to the author, since religion was not embraced by the state, the ideals of Lenin became a kind of pseudo-religion, and many families were atheist. So, here we could say that there is a shared belief aspect of Russian culture – atheism. (According to the book’s author). So, if this makes the list of what makes a person uniquely Russian, what can we learn from it? How can we extract any value from this knowledge? How can knowing it increase our chances of a successful relationship with a Russian person? Perhaps, if one is religious, knowing this could be very valuable. (This possibility is discussed in the book – it is not mine). It may be difficult for you to get your Russian mate to understand and accept your religious beliefs. Ok, this makes sense to me. Can anyone provide an example?

I hope it is clear why I started this thread, and I hope that it will generate a lot of interesting discussion from people who have first hand experience with Russian culture.

Posted by: liamy7

Hello
Great thread you started, I think.
You know, I 've never travelled anywhere (except the Ukraine, but that doesn't really count, 'cause the Ukraine is just like Russia, we are all the FSU after all, and the culture of our countries have suffered the same impact of the communizm) And, staiyng here in Russia, some 2 years ago I couldn't say anything about cultural differences except the thing I noticed in movies: americans and canadians always wear those cheerful, ''I-am-OK'' smiles in any situation, while we Russians tend to wear gloomy faces and frowns almost all the time.

Now I am the member of the international organization which works with internships, so I quite often deal with trainees from different countries and for this not very long time I noticed some other interesting things.
PERSONAL SPACE : especially speaking of Americans and British- I've seen with my own eyes how these people react on someone crossing the border of their space, like, coming up too close, or touching them etc. Among russians it's quite common when in communication of 2 persons hardly knowing each other the one claps the other on the shoulder at the end. Or hugs, or something like that. I'am not saying that this is considered polite - no, in the most of cases it is considered rather rude, but nevertheless it's a common feature of Russian people. It's rude, but we laugh at it as if it were just in our nature. And it really is in our nature. I hope you'll understand what I mean =)

Another thing: I've already said about faces, but now I guess it's more than that. Some month ago I was meeting a trainee from Seattle at the airport. He was very tired ( 10 hours' flight, 2 stops if I am not mistaken) BUT: he was smiling all the time, even sitting in an overcrowded tiny taxi, where he had to keep his head down not to hit it on the ceiling and was holding a huge bag on his laps, because there was no place to put it. And all this time, although he was obviously tired, he was smiling and talking very lively

maybe it's just that kind of person, but I much more often meet such people among foreigners than among Russians.
You were talking about religion. Well, it depends. I can't say that all Russians are atheists. You know, even in the times when there was Lenin's cult (I wasn't born then yet, but I was told) not everyone was like a sheep, believing in everything the government did or said. In the villages they never stopped believing in God and they do it now, and young people with them. In the cities now there's still a big amount of religious people, only it's some other kind of believing. As far as I know, americans often say prayers, visit churches and so on (correct me if I am wrong) Here in Russia the believing is ....more inside a person than outside. We don't say prayers and seldom visit churches and still the beleifth (is there such a word? =) ) is very strong. Being religious is also considered typically russian trait.

And another very typical feature which is often a subject of sad russian jokes: we never believe in our government, we never relay on it, we never expect anything good from it (except for the pensioners - they are always happy when some minister adds 100 rubles (3$) to the pension, although 100 rubles is like a medicine for the dead man (russian saying, very optimistical

)

I will think some more about it and for sure add something, cause the thread is really interesting. I am not sure if I answered some of your questions but thanks for the thread anyway =)

Posted by: That1Guy

Hi Liamy, welcome to the forum, and thanks for your reply!

I started this thread hoping for responses just like this – specific examples from personal experience. I have seen a few discussions that were similar in nature, but maybe not as direct. So, as I started this thread, I really tried to focus on “What is Russian culture anyway?”

) I thought that culture is ONLY expressed through the population responsible for that culture. So, what behaviors contribute to making Russian culture unique?

I really enjoyed reading your response. And you’re intuition was correct in that I do not fully understand the apparent contradiction about “being in someone’s space”.

)

I have read (maybe in this forum), about an overall pessimistic attitude shared by Russian people, and have discussed this with Tatiana (a very special woman – to me)

) The gist of her comments were that this pessimism is mainly directed towards the government. Maybe it is this that extends itself (in some fashion) into the “not quite happy” demeanor you have described by contrasting the behavior of some Russian people with the trainee from Seattle.

I’m skipping around a bit, but back to the “invasion of personal space topic” - I think this space might be larger for Americans than Russians. Any thoughts? I find it pleasant, interesting, and amusing that Russians do the pat on the back, for example, even though they know it is considered rude. From my “western” perspective, I think it shouldn’t be considered rude, because it is widely accepted as normal behavior. I find this curious.

)

About the sad Russian jokes: Tatiana told me that an author once said, “Russia has two problems – roads and fools.” As I recall, we were talking about the poor condition of some of the roads we walked along, but I never did understand if there was supposed to be a connection (bad roads and fools), or if these are simply two unrelated problems that occurred to the author.

I have also heard comments about “chatty Americans” referencing the observation that from a Russian person’s perspective, Americans tend to want to talk more than most Russian people. Or perhaps this is more in recognizing the outward appearance of being happy? Personally, I do not have that wonderful gift of gab, and small talk does not come easily for me most of the time. So maybe my personality would not be considered “typical American’ by those who have made this observation.

) Thinking about this, I recall my flight to Moscow. I was seated next to a kind man named Alexander (From Albania) who stubbornly insisted that we chat even though it was such a struggle.

) I was not very familiar with my translation software, and it was also then that I realized the layout for a Russian keyboard was different from an English one (duh). Still, he persisted, and we actually learned a few things about one another during our flight. Upon arrival, he also helped me navigate the airport – Thanks Alexander!

) My point is though, that he was more inclined to chat than I am. (Very un-Russian of him and un-American of me) ;o)

I think I am starting to piece together some level of understanding, but it is not easy for me to say it in a sentence or two. There seems to be some degree of consensus that a part of Russian culture is to behave in a manner that seems less upbeat when compared to many westerners. Of course, this statement is hopelessly inadequate, and should not be interpreted as an attempt to characterize all Russian people.

)

Your statement about how Americans tend to behave regarding religion is accurate. In the book I mentioned, the author does not talk about Russians who were religious during the Communist era, but I suspected that some people would practice religion privately. Maybe this contributes to how many Russians still keep their religion “inside” instead of outwardly expressing it?

Thanks again liamy, I am looking forward to reading more!

Guy

Posted by: Meico

Guy, you’ve brought up a great subject that will generate some very good answers to you’re question. Everyone will have their own unique examples of their perception of culture differences and for the most part they will all be correct.

I’ve only been closely exposed to Russian/Ukrainian culture for just over one year now but I find them to be basically no different from all other people. People are products of their surroundings, background, social environment and values they were raised with (just to name a few) like the definition of culture you stated earlier. When these outside forces are removed, people are essentially the same.

Being better acquainted with Russian “culture” (I think) will help the AM have a better understanding of why his Russian GF/Wife thinks, feels, reacts at times. But the same would be true if the couples mix was Seattle and Miami or New York and San Francisco.

The situation may be similar to the expression: “You can take the boy out of the country, but it’s not easy to take the country out of the boy”

Posted by: Meico

Wedded Strangers, The Challenges of Russian-American Marriages, expanded edition by Lynn Visson

I found this book to be entertaining, interesting, and informative.

Posted by: liamy7

Hi!
Guy, I have just read my statement about personal space, and feel a bit perplexed myself =) Maybe to make it clear, another exaple from life.
At the end of November, when winter actually started (I mean, real russian winter, quite severe) our trainee from Great Britain, who had before that walked around without anything on her head, told us she would like to do something about it =) We told her that we could buy a hat either at the civilized shopping center, or at the nearest market at the open air. She chose the latter ( brave of her, I think ) so we went there. The procedure of buying there is usually like the following: you go through the rows and the sellers are crying out: Hey, pretty girl, buy these socks, don't buy those socks at my neighbour's place, come up here, look how sweet they are.... and so on, even if you never thought of any socks at all =) But that's not a point, as she didn't understand russian anyway and was just curious, why these guys were so loud. The point is, when you finally find what you need, if it's an item of clothes, the seller always helps you to try it on you...well in a rather rude way. When we found a hat that the trainee liked, the seller didn't give her the chance to put it on herself, but started ''helping'' her, trying to put her head into the hat. What was the funniest thing - the hat was of the wrong size, too small, and the seller didn't have the bigger one. The fact that the hat was too small was clear for everyone (especially for Claire, I guess =) poor head) and still the seller tried to pull it on . Well, as for us, we were laughing at it, because we are used to it. The trainee didn't show any negative emotions either, but after that, when we talked of this episode, she said, in her calm british way, that it felt rather wild. And wild it was. Especially from her british point of view, because, as she told us, the people of her nation avoid touching each other very much. But for that seller, and thousand other sellers, and even their buyers it is ok, because russians are used to it. My mother says it goes from the soviet times, when people had to live in communal flats (3 rooms, 3 families, 1 kitchen,1 bathroom can you imagine this? about 10 people including children in one little flat? ? ? Personal space? what are we talking about? =)

About that joke, ''Russia has 2 problems - fools and roads''. =) I guess it's true that the fools make terrible roads, but the connection between these two problems is more in the field of linguistics, then in real life. In russian language the word ''fools'' sounds like ''duraki'' and ''roads'' sounds like ''dorogi''. Almost the same, if you could hear the pronounciation. That's the connection =) just the trics of sounds and words.

Yes, I think you're right about being religious privitely. Maybe that's the reason.

That's not all that I want to say, there were some other things in your letter I could comment on and there are smth I want to ask you but it's so late here... =) I'll be back =)

Thanks for the topic, Guy =) so interesting to talk to you about it.

Posted by: Chrismc

Hi Liamy

You offer a lot of good information and an insight into Russian culture that may not be easy to come across for us.

Thanks
Chris

Posted by: inlove

After many years in the States, these cultural differences don't seem that sharp to me. Maybe because the US of America is not a homogeneous country by any standard, this contrast does not seem too bright.
I find a russian relationship with the idea of personal space to be pretty much the same as in a latin community. Yes, we are more accepting of the strangers entering our personal space than a typical englishman would be, but when you compare it to many other nations, the difference is almost negligible. Also, not every russian likes to be patted on the back either. My mother, more or less a true representative of russian intelligencia, has hated it all her life and always tried to distance herself from such expressions of "buddiness". I would think that acceptance of such expressions has a lot to do with the social and personal cultural background, level of education and personal circumstances, than with the overall culture of the country.