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Scam or genuine reply
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Posted by: Hostile_hostage

I am fairly new to actually forming a relationship with someone from the Ukraine. Like anyone starting out I hadn't heard of ladies only pretending to be interested in order to extract money. This site has been so informative and I would reccomend it to anyone starting out on a similar quest.
I've kind of sorted out the 'Golden Rules' when it comes to spotting someone who is only interested in you for financial gain.

1) Money Request
2) Giving false information
3) Not answering specific questions
4) Reluctant to discuss their family background
5) No photos of family members
6) Telling you 'I Love You' before you've even met
7) Not wanting you to visit them
8) Not giving you their address or telephone number
9) Their letters only consist of the feelings they have for you

I'm sure there are other things to look out for but I think these are the main ones.

I've been fortnate as I believe the woman I'm writing to is genuine.
The only thing she hasn't done is give me her telephone number and address. I was suspicious to start with but know I believe the reasons she has given for not supplying me with this information.
She often talks about her family and I've been sent photos of family members.
From some of the stories I've read on this site I feel I've been lucky.
Initially when i first started this adventure I did encounter women asking for money and promptly stopped contact.
The next step is to actually meet your chosen lady/ladies and see if the connection carries on 'in person'.
This is the stage I've reached and I shall be travelling to the Ukraine in March.
I'm just going on instinct, lets hope my instincts don't let me down.
I hope the majority of members also find someone genuine and that their wishes will come true.

Posted by: SteveM

I'm curious as to what kind of valid reason a lady could give for not giving her address or phone number when you are planning on visiting her the month after next?

Posted by: ham

if that person is as serious as you claim you are, why wouldn't she give you her phone/address?
She wants to meet you in person but doesn't want you to know her address?!
That's your sole business but i read of some cases when that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

She signed a contract with this Dating Agency. They have rules for their 'ladies' not giving out this information. My 'girlfriends' English isn't good and she uses the Agencies translator. We haven't been charged anything so far. When I go to visit I will make use of the Agencies services, car with driver, apartment, interpreter, excursions etc.
If things work out I have to pay $200 to continue communicating with my 'girlfriend'.
If the girls gave out their phone numbers/addresses then the Agency would lose money.
I have had contact with the Agencies owner and she has been nothing bit attentive and very helpful.
As I'm not paying to receive/send letters I'm happy with this arrangement.
As this is the only box that hasn't been ticked I'm happy to go on to the next stage.
I'm sure that should things work out and we end up getting engaged (not on this trip, it's too soon for a decision like that) then I'm sure I'll have her address etc.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

if that person is as serious as you claim you are, why wouldn't she give you her phone/address?
She wants to meet you in person but doesn't want you to know her address?!
That's your sole business but i read of some cases when that was just the tip of the iceberg.

This was a concern for me !! At first you naturally think 'scam'.
If all the other box's are ticked and you can understand the reason given for not supplying this information, then you are able to go on to the next stage.
She doesn't speak much English (at the moment ) and it has really helped that she has the use of a free translation service. When we talk on the phone we get an interpreter, again for free.
The Agency seems really good and it's aim really is to bring people together. That's why i think they wait for people to actually meet before they make any money.

Posted by: zaniac

Hostile_hostage - Yes I agree this website has a wealth of information on it. After a month of looking for a foreign partner on GL, I realised that it would be best to find out if there were any community forums with regards to what I was doing. From past experience, I know that community forums are one of the best resources for information gathering on a subject that a person wishes to look into.

I would say that your 'Golden Rules' cover the main aspects of spotting a scammer. Obviously each scammer has their own way of doing things, but most usually can be caught out, if they work on the above rules.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

She signed a contract with this Dating Agency. They have rules for their 'ladies' not giving out this information.

again it's your sole business but there are reported cases showing that agencies may be after a fast buck ( before, after or during your visit ), rather than

Quote:

The Agency seems really good and it's aim really is to bring people together.

.

There are cases where the girl is not real and you're dealing with some hired teaser or else...
it sounds strange but i read many investigations about another kind of fraud: degree mills ( fraudulent garage business selling even more fake university diplomas for a fee ).
Most often a few people play upto ten or more different individuals.
She can talk to you as Nadia, with Pedro as Natasha, while for Leroy she is Olga and for Wong Julia.

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

It seems a bit odd; when do you get to find her telephone number or address? do the Agency chaperone you all the time you're there?

If there is any sort of contract between you and the agency, then if it's all legit, there is no reason you shouldn't have these details (if you're in effect agreeing an introduction fee).

I'd be a little concerned about this if I were in your shoes

Ade

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

I think you're missing the main scam tip-off from your list.

#1 should be: She sends you a first letter out of the blue.

A woman trolling for foreign strangers on the internet in this way is either A. a scammer or B. someone very desperate that you don't want to get involved with.

My advice to everyone is to;

Avoid "Agencies" like the plague.
Ignore anyone sending you unsolicited emails, no matter how attractive the accompanying photo is.
Avoid women who don't speak at least rudimentary English (unless you speak at least rudimentary Russian). Being unable to communicate effectively is not a good basis for a long term relationship (in my opinion).

That's the way I see it.

Posted by: jpierce55

I find myself agreeing with Ham something is not right. I wrote a couple of scammer women who gave me their real addresses. HH you may go over there and find yourself in a frightening situation. You are trusting them on good faith. When you get over there you may find yourself little more than a hostage.

What if they come to pick you up and say give me $2000 dollars and I will take you to the hotel you will stay at? It could happen! When I went to Moscow and used RussGirlFridays service this is what basicly happened. I read her service was good even. It was necessary to pay a deposit, and so I did. She claimed she would send the apartment address after getting it. She did not, I asked two more times. I got to Moscow and everything cost more than agreed on, not $2000 more but to much more. I was not prepared. I feared it would happen when she did not give me the address but I had little choice since I was 75% prepaid.

What could I do as a non-Russian speaking person and not knowing where I would go. Especially since I had paid Elena's way and she was already at her apartmen, what would have happened to her?

Don't trust them HH nobody does business on good faith.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

[QUOTE=jpierce55]I find myself agreeing with Ham something is not right. I wrote a couple of scammer women who gave me their real addresses. HH you may go over there and find yourself in a frightening situation. You are trusting them on good faith. When you get over there you may find yourself little more than a hostage.

What if they come to pick you up and say give me $2000 dollars and I will take you to the hotel you will stay at? It could happen! When I went to Moscow and used RussGirlFridays service this is what basicly happened. I read her service was good even. It was necessary to pay a deposit, and so I did. She claimed she would send the apartment address after getting it. She did not, I asked two more times. I got to Moscow and everything cost more than agreed on, not $2000 more but to much more. I was not prepared. I feared it would happen when she did not give me the address but I had little choice since I was 75% prepaid.
QUOTE]

As yet, I haven't been asked for money. All our correspondence has been for free.
Obviously the Agency will make money by my using the services they provide.
I have already been sent an email with the amount these services will cost.
If i am met in Kiev by a couple of shady characters asking for thousands of dollars, I shall politely refuse and immediately start looking for accomodation in Kiev.

Posted by: jpierce55

Just use caution and try to stay near the crowd as long as possible when you arrive. I liked Kiev and things smoothed out there. All plans by me, I used BigE for my hotel and took a train. Taxi drivers swarmed me and one took the time to find an English speaking driver for me, driver even walked me and my luggage to the desk at the hotel.

My Kiev stay was very cheap and I hope the prices they quoted are good.

I just can't imagine why she would not give you her address, are her emails going through the agency? In that case they may delete it even if she does send it.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

My 'girlfriend' and the Agency have both explained the Agencies rule concerning private addresses.
My 'girlfriend' doesn't want to do anything that will mean that she will lose the free services the Agency are offering her. All letters are translated so it is best they go through this Agency.
If at the end of the day if it is an Agency 'scam' just to part me with my money once i get there, then I shall just go on to have a holiday and do some sightseeing. You learn from experience and I shall try not to make the same mistake twice.

A driver is being sent to meet me at the aiport in Kiev together with my 'girlfriend' and an interpreter. It is a 6 hour journey to Chernivtsy. As my 'girlfriend' doesn't speak much English and my Russian is practically non-existant, all i have to do is come up with enough things to talk about for 6 hours.

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

A driver is being sent to meet me at the aiport in Kiev together with my 'girlfriend' and an interpreter. It is a 6 hour journey to Chernivtsy. As my 'girlfriend' doesn't speak much English and my Russian is practically non-existant, all i have to do is come up with enough things to talk about for 6 hours.

How much have they quoted you for the taxi journey HH ?

John

Posted by: Kimosabe

Hey HH,

One intermediate step you might consider that will give you more information on your lady and resolve the address issue is to call her on the telephone using an interpreter. You will be able to hear her voice, hear her thoughts (although second hand), and get a feeling for her sincerity. The agency she uses should have and interpreter for a 3 way conference call and they should have her phone number. When you have her on the phone, ask for her address and any other information you feel is important. Nothing is for sure, but at least you may be able to learn something new about her.

Then again, you may not want to listen to anything I have to say because I have been twice to Russia/Ukraine and twice scammed.

Posted by: jpierce55

I think in all likely hood they will not translate the address/phone number for him. This service is using an arm twisting technique.

Hopefully all turns out well HH.

Posted by: Pin Boy

hi kimosabe and welcome,

care to elaborate on what happened to you? it would be a great service to the forum. thanks.

pin boy

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by clever1

How much have they quoted you for the taxi journey HH ?

John

Transportation:

The closest to us airport are located in Kiev and Lviv. Our professional driver will meet you in the airport of your arrival together with our interpreter and will bring you to our city. Your trip will be safe and comfortable. It takes only 6 hours to get here from Kiev airport, and 4 hours from Lviv airport.

We offer transportation from/to airport in Kiev for 220$ for one way trip. In Lviv for 160$ for one way trip.

Ian

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimosabe

Hey HH,

One intermediate step you might consider that will give you more information on your lady and resolve the address issue is to call her on the telephone using an interpreter. You will be able to hear her voice, hear her thoughts (although second hand), and get a feeling for her sincerity. The agency she uses should have and interpreter for a 3 way conference call and they should have her phone number. When you have her on the phone, ask for her address and any other information you feel is important. Nothing is for sure, but at least you may be able to learn something new about her.

Then again, you may not want to listen to anything I have to say because I have been twice to Russia/Ukraine and twice scammed.

It's bad enough having to go through the experience of being scammed once..but twice.
Perhaps you could write telling of your experiences. If nothing else, it could perhaps stop someone going through the same experiences as yourself.
I have so far spoken to my 'girlfriend' twice on the phone with the help of an interpreter.
I got a reply from the Dating Agency involved which has made things clearer.
Whilst you are using their services for free all private addresses are with held. As soon as you meet your 'girlfriend' and a relationship develops you then pay a fee to continue correspondence. After you have paid this fee you are then able to have your 'girlfriends' private address.
Sounds reasonable to me, but then again I haven't gone through the experience of being scammed.
Thank you for your advice.

Ian

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpierce55

I think in all likely hood they will not translate the address/phone number for him. This service is using an arm twisting technique.

Hopefully all turns out well HH.

I asked the Agency if it would be alright to have my 'girlfreinds' address once i had visited her and if we decided to continue our relationship.

Basically what they are saying is up until now their services have been completely free. Should a relationship develop between my 'girlfriend' and myself after we have met, then I would have to pay a fee for continued correspondence. It is only when this stage is reached that I will be given access to my 'girlfriends' private address.
It is because of the excellent service i have received up until now, that I'm happy to go along with this.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

highly suspicious.

but whatever floats your boat.
they tell you in every way that they want you "hooked" and are ready to give you free rides for that...of course they're not the salvation army and there must be a catch there...

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile_hostage

$220 is expensive for a 6 hour car ride, I paid $150 for the same and even that was over the top. A taxi driver at Kiev airport will quote you between $120 - $150 max. But it is hard to barter if you don't know the language, but many do speak English especially around the airport area. Even so it is still over the top at $220.

Chris

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

I have found out that this is an expensive quote. I did look into flights and trains which would have been a lot cheaper. I'm opting for taking an Agency car as my 'girlfriend' and an interpreter will be coming with the driver.
Should my time in Chernivsty prove to be just a way to line this Agencies pockets I will dispence with their services and just have a relaxing break.
I've already made up my mind to get a flight from Chernivsty back to Kiev.

Ian

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

If things don't work out with my 'girlfriend' I wouldn't have spent that much money. I won't have to pay to continue correspondence and I've already planned to make my own way back to Kiev via Chernivsty airport.
If it proves to be a Agency scam then it will be a lesson learnt.

Ian

Posted by: jpierce55

I paid a taxi driver to pick me up at 3:45a.m. in the morning, he even spent the night outside my hotel and came to wake me up. He drove me from the Liberty Square to Borispol for $40. I thought that was high but considering the time he had to come I was alright with it.

And I used his taxi before that night and I felt a little safer with him than just anybody.

My train ticket from Moscow to Kiev was $40.