Fictitious Marriages (Marriage for Green Card/Money, Etc.) - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

Fictitious Marriages (Marriage for Green Card/Money, Etc.)
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: searcher

I light of a recent post, we thought it would be worth discussing fictitious marriages (green cards, money, etc.)

1) How often does it occur?

2) Has it happened to anyone?

3) Has anyone been involved or consented to this?

We realize these things happen and wanted some feedback and thoughts concerning this matter. The RMP staff does not condone this type of activity but we feel something can be learned by discussing it.

Your open and honest thought/comments, etc are welcomed.

Posted by: swindoom

In London one in three registry office marriages were sham marriages, just for a passport. The registrar's knew they were sham marriages but were unable to do anything to stop them. This changed in February 2005 when the government changed the rules to make it far more difficult and expensive to marry a non-UK citizen in the UK.

Posted by: mistermopar

My best friends brother did this for a girl from Cuba.After knowing her for one week,got married in Cuba,came home to Canada and filled out papers.
They stayed together for I think 2 years and then she moved out for her new life.

Randy

Posted by: Jill

I was offered it once (in exchange for money). Needless to say, I turned it down....

I had a friend in NYC who taught ESL and ended up marrying one of his stuents so that she could stay in the country legally. As he was gay, he figured it didn't matter too much if he was in a fictitious marriage

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

I light of a recent post, we thought it would be worth discussing fictitious marriages (green cards, money, etc.)

1) How often does it occur?

2) Has it happened to anyone?

3) Has anyone been involved or consented to this?

The most popular way to obtain an immigration benefit is to create a real marriage, not a ficticious one, but end it once a green card is in a pocket... A pure sham marriage is not very popular, because it is illegal and risky.

Posted by: Pin Boy

but then is it a "real" marriage??

Posted by: inlove

It is a good question, Pin Boy.

From a legal standpoint, it is a real marriage, since people share a household, and, supposingly, everything else.. From a moral perspective.. Usually, spouses claim that their love feelings just ended, but who knows..

Posted by: ham

the problem is not when 2 people admittedly & consistently plan a marriage of convenience together.
As strange as it sounds, it's as old as it sounds.
THE PROBLEM WITH MANY MOB MARRIAGES IS THE GULLIBLE WESTERN SUCKER HAS NO IDEA HE'S BEEN PLAYED & TAKEN FOR A RIDE as some news & court cases start to show.
For just one example:
http://www.geocities.com/a280872/mo...-australia.html

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

But then I have to ask the same question PinBoy asked, is that a real marriage.

It may seem real legally to immigration but its still not a real marriage.

Also, as Ham pointed out (and I have to agree with him) that the problem isn't "planned" marriages, it the "green card girls" (or "green card scammers", if you prefer) that are the problem.

These are very cold and heartless women. I'd also say the situation in Australia is much worse bcause these men were put our of their own homes for charges that were proven to be false. Its just disgusting that the Australian government has essentially informed and REWARDED these women! They gave them the necessary information to plan their deception and then rewarded them with the life savings of these men.

If it were legally possible and I were in their shoes I would sell the house from under them!

I could understand if a relationship simply didn't work and both involved tried but such a deception just makes me angry and its is quite disgusting how they were rewarded for their lies and deception. They should be deported and nothing less!

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

The nature of a long distance international relationship is that you really don't know whom you are marrying. It seems that you should be able to make a right decision based on emails, phone calls, and a little time you've spent together, but the reality is, you have no idea how your mutual family life will go. There are things about a person you will never know without living with them for a while. In a normal situation, if you live together for some time, and the feelings are just not there anymore, or it is simly not working out,and her/his little habits, etc. irritate the hell out of you, you break up and move on..

In a MOB marriage, you are pretty much stuck, because of the immigration. So, lets take a typical scenario. She gets married to a guy with a hope of creating a real family, but without feeling a deep overwhelming love for him.. One year into it, and she realizes she cannot stand him any longer. She would have left him, but her permanent residency is still a couple of years away. If she divorces him now, she will have to go back, which she does not want to do because of the number of reasons. So what would she do in a majority of cases like this? No, not drum up abuse charges for a non-existing abuse. Most likely she will live with him a couple more years, waiting for a green card, and then divorce him once her immigration situation is stable. Husbands might have no idea that wives have already moved on emotionally, because the last thing she wants to happen is for him to divorce her before the immigration interview.

It happens very often. Even though people here would want to believe it, the divorce rate between FSU women and western men are the same as between western/western couples. The majority of these divorces happen at 2-3 years mark, just enough for the immigration papers to go through..

So, was it a scam from the beginning? Did it become a scam on the middle? Was it a real marriage that did not work out? Was is a sham marriage? I don't know.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

Inlove! You are hitting the nail on the head! I understand why many people do not live with their fiancees' for an extended period of time. Because yes, it is expensive or their job requirements make it difficult! But take a step back and think how expensive it might be if you marry and things do not work out!

I could not see myself marrying a lady I had only lived with for a couple of weeks. Usually when people marry locally they spend a great deal of time together over an extended period of time and usually learn a person very well.

I was lucky because I am self-employed. I was able to joggle my schedule around so I could spend an extended amount of time with my now wife. Actually subsequent trips are much less expensive...especially if you stay with your fiancee in her apartment. The only necessary big expense is the cost of a plane ticket!

I believe we would have had a very difficult time together if we had not spent this time together. Yes..we had our bumps in the road getting used to each others quirks and cultural differences. Compund this with the stress of leaving home and adjusting to a whole new way of life could have made things very difficult!.

Posted by: ham

Quote:

moreless

Quote:

She gets married to a guy with a hope of creating a real family, but without feeling a deep overwhelming love for him.. One year into it, and she realizes she cannot stand him any longer. She would have left him, but her permanent residency is still a couple of years away.

there are more than a few such men reading around these forums.

Quote:

because the last thing she wants to happen is for him to divorce her before the immigration interview.

hahaha!

Quote:

the divorce rate between FSU women and western men are the same as between western/western couples

some uncredited study that circulated time ago claimed 80%+ divorced rate.

Quote:

I'd also say the situation in Australia is much worse

i read some time ago ( again y@hoo or MSN news ) an american case:

man meets woman. Girlfriend moves in with him in HIS house. After some time, things start to go sour perhaps, but he leaves for a business trip. Once he returns, locks have changed and a court order evicts him pending hearings. He eventually gets rid of the pest, but after MONTHS of litigation & associated legal costs. I'm not even taking personal or emotional impact into consideration.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by inlove

I understand in those circumstances and I don't entirely consider that a "scam:...

like I said previously, it is one thing if a relationship just didn't work and the people involved tried...

BUT

in my mind it is a completely different matter if from the beginning one person intended to deceive another for a green card or whatever!

Sure, relationships sometimes don't work but what about the scenarios that Ham presented????

Those women set out with one thing in mind and did not care about the emotional or financial damage they did. Their ONLY purpose was to obtain an Australian "green card". They even openly admitted to it!

Now that is what would make me furious!

A failed relationship is an entirely different matter and most people can live with that.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

I understand in those circumstances and I don't entirely consider that a "scam:...

Why not? For the remaining 2 years she lives with him only because of the green card. And a guy does not know it. It is a scam.. sort of. Thanks to the immigration laws.

Quote:

in my mind it is a completely different matter if from the beginning one person intended to deceive another for a green card or whatever!

It is different because the intent to deceive was not there at the beginning.. But the end results are still the same.

Quote:

Those women set out with one thing in mind and did not care about the emotional or financial damage they did. Their ONLY purpose was to obtain an Australian "green card". They even openly admitted to it!

Now that is what would make me furious!

A failed relationship is an entirely different matter and most people can live with that.

These scenarios where everything is pretty much black and white don't happen very often. It is like with the real physical or psychological abuse. Does it happen? Sure! How often? probably not in every second or even third/forth relationship.. Many more relationships fall into the grey area described above, where the intent to deceive was not there at the time of the wedding, but at the end it turned out this way.

Posted by: deccie

Leaving aside the issue of how these guys were dealt with by the police and courts for a sec but focusing on the issue of how the women obtained residency..

How should the government act otherwise than granting permits?

If they tighten the rules then it is quite likely a % of women who are making genuine allegations will be unable to prove their case in court and thus could be denied residency. That's hardly a just situation either.

Should they change it so that criminal charges being proven is not the burden of proof but civil?

The rules for proving a civil case are greatly different to that of a criminal case.

Getting the balance right so that men are not unjustly accused/prosecuted and women are protected is going to be darn hard.

Either gender are perfectly capable of exploiting loopholes in legislation for their own advantage.

Posted by: jpierce55

I can't say I know of anybody that did this. I wanted to comment, one woman I work with repeatedly (rudely) commented on the fact I met a woman from another country. She lived in Germany for several years and said many German women married American men, divorced them and returned home. By German laws the man must provide some form of alamony (sp).

I think Ham hit it on the head. It may not be legal but I see little wrong with an arranged "fictitious" marriage. It is the marriage where one is scammed that is bad. Consider some men just marry these women for sex, for a free maid, and to use as prostitues; the scam goes both ways.

Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:

She lived in Germany for several years and said many German women married American men, divorced them and returned home. By German laws the man must provide some form of alamony (sp).

Is there anything the German Gov. could do to make an American man pay alamony?I would not think they could since the man do not live in Germany,but I could be wrong..very wrong,maybe someone knows if this is possible.

Randy

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpierce55

I can't say I know of anybody that did this. I wanted to comment, one woman I work with repeatedly (rudely) commented on the fact I met a woman from another country. She lived in Germany for several years and said many German women married American men, divorced them and returned home. By German laws the man must provide some form of alamony (sp).

Pre-unification days it was a common practice that the man would have to pay alimony and child support, unless there was a huge income differential. If you married Steffi Graf you were not going to be made to pay alimony to her.

Germany has no authority over US citizens and the US has no authority over German citizens. Of course if you are a US citizen living / working in Germany, the spouse could have your wages garnished. Once the US citizen leaves Germany all bets are off.

Posted by: jpierce55

I beleive she lived there after unification. I also believe that they can, consider international lawsuits exist.

Parts of Germany are very poor even though you here little about it, a bif financial difference would exist. Just like between FSU and the US.

Maybe it is not true but that is what she said.

Posted by: obx2005

Quote:

Hi,
I am 15 months into a separation/divorce from a German National after 16 years of marriage and when the US recognizes marriages from a particular country, in my case Germany, they will also defer to and uphold rulings on custody, property, and alimony to the country where the rulings are made. In my case, all of these are being decided here in the US so there are no issues...

No, the German courts have no jurisdiction over the US citizen absent from Germany, BUT!!!, the US courts can enforce international rulings from a German Court

...

Jeff

Posted by: clever1

Everything depends on what reciprocal agreements have been agreed between the two countries concerned.

John

Posted by: B82

I don't know how often it happens to this day but I know that people were giving my husband and I alot of heat about it. They didn't believe that our relationship was real and thought that he was trying to get over on me. It was very hard because we really cared about each other, he just happened to be from a different country. Even a receptionist at the law office thought the same thing. She asked me if our marriage was a business marriage. I looked at her like "What the heck?!" It was shocking because I told her that it was a regular marriage. I was also thinking, woman, we are young people. Why the heck would we waste our time marrying someone you don't love? So, apparently it happens enough.