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Russian man was once interested in relationship, but now just friendship?
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Posted by: Margo930

I have been in a "relationship" with a RM for over a year now. He has been here for 5 yrs & we got along famously at first. The physical side of our relationship was GREAT. A couple months ago, he turned off completely. No physical, just FRIENDS. I was so not cool with that. I have moved to a different town, and he calls me 5x a day still. I don't know what went wrong, but my GF told me that Russians never get seriously involved.. I know that is not true, but why is he still calling me. How could we still be friends after such a history. WHY would he still want to be friends? WHAT DO I DO? I would love to still be involved with him, but we could never be just friends. Is it better for me just to stop communicating with him? HELP!!!

Posted by: searcher

Welcome to the forum Margo,

Well I think with any man, if he weren't seriously interested in you, he wouldn't be calling you 5 time a day. I think he is quite interested but maybe he has trouble keeping up with the physical side of the relationship due to fatigue, stress or possibly any number of factors.

If you want to remain involved then I think you should tactfully address this issue. If it bothers you absolutely DO NOT ignore it just for the sake of having a relationship. It will only lead to someone being dissatisfied.....

Whether or not you should stop communicating with him depends upon whether or not you want a relationship with him. If you just want it to end, then yes, end the comminucation and don't lead him on BUT you seem to be quite interested still so you need to talk to him and address that issue - immediately and without hesitation!

Posted by: Margo930

O.k., spoke to him but it seems he might be seeing someone else. Not sure, I mean, it happens. i can't get an answer out of him. Maybe things just changed. First he says, "No physical" like I said before. I asked him what the problem was, he would not say if he was seeing someone else. Then when I REALLY asked him, you know, if he was, he said, "Well, if you know already, then why are you asking?" which basically means-at least to me-that he IS seeing someone. Then when I said I didn't know if I should talk to him, basically because I'm not sure if I could just be friends with him, he said "Oh, you Americans! Just, "I don't want to speak to you!" and that's it?" he got really upset and offended. But why does he think that being friends with me is o.k. if he is dating someone? Doesn't he think that's wrong? I don't get it?

Anyway, thanks for your help!

Posted by: Texas Proud

Margo...

You do not say if he ever said he was in love with you.. it could have been recreational sex to him and now that he has found a girlfriend he does not what to 'cheat' on her....

If she does not work out, then maybe he will come back for some more recreation..

IF you want more then you should tell him, but it sounds like he does not... you now have to decide if it is OK with you or not just 'to be friends'... if you do LOVE him, then you will always be creating problems and it it best you move on... if you just thought things were going to grow and do not love him... then accept what you have... a friendship...

Texas Proud

Posted by: Margo930

By the way, I used to live in Spring Branch...

He did say that he loved me, but never said he was IN love with me. Unfortunately, now that I think about it, and I must be some dummy, he only said it to me a few times, and I have to admit, we were out partying. I guess it's better to end it. In the beginning, we did BF-GF things, like Valentine's day & stuff, but I know that really means nothing. However, I don't understand why he would still call me and want to be friends instead of him just telling me (if he really WAS my friend) that he met someone and he couldn't talk to me anymore. Any thoughts?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

By the way, I used to live in Spring Branch...

He did say that he loved me, but never said he was IN love with me. Unfortunately, now that I think about it, and I must be some dummy, he only said it to me a few times, and I have to admit, we were out partying. I guess it's better to end it. In the beginning, we did BF-GF things, like Valentine's day & stuff, but I know that really means nothing. However, I don't understand why he would still call me and want to be friends instead of him just telling me (if he really WAS my friend) that he met someone and he couldn't talk to me anymore. Any thoughts?

Well, a former Houstonian!!! Where are you now if you do not mind??

It does sound like a recreational sex thing to me... maybe at first he was a bit interested in you, but it did not grow.. and as you know some men will do anything to get in your pants.. It does not sound like he was a liar about it, but it does not sound like he was in love with you and he has moved on..

I do not see a problem with being friends if it does not cause you pain.. I had a "GF" when I was in London.. but I told her early I was NOT in love with her and probably would not be.. she was fine with it and just was interested in having some fun... so we did.. I still keep in touch with her even though she have moved back to NZ.. I think we are friends still.. but as I said niether one of us were IN love with the other... we just cared about each other..

If you do love him and you will be trying to get back with him, it is best you move on... take the time to grieve and then start looking again..

Posted by: GREGK

Margo- My guess would be that he wants to stay in touch in case his current relationship doesn't work out. Some men keep former girlfriends in the wings for potential " booty calls". Move on, you deserve better than that.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Once a week now..................once a month when you are married. Warning bells, listen to them!!!

Posted by: Margo930

hey texas,

well, i'm in New York now. Brooklyn to be exact. I've been here for a while. I live in a Russian neighborhood out here, so thats how I got to know my friend. Met him at work in Manhattan, actually, and it turned out that he lived 5mins from my house. Just trying to be objective. I just don't understand why he keeps calling me. In fact, if I don't he gets upset, but i know it has nothing to do with keeping me on the side for recreation. You're a guy, could you really just be friends with a woman without anything physical.. I mean, anything?

Posted by: searcher

Alright,

Here is my opion of the "friendship" issue....

For me, yes, I could be friends with a woman and not have any physical demands of her.... but that may be just me.

I know that some guys can do that BUT that may be the exception and not the norm. That is why many many many guys worry about a woman's male friends. Many men are ONLY friends with a woman because they are hoping for something more than just a friendly hug!

I know many women would not persue that if it is not what they want but these guys often make men worry and sometimes its when a person is feeling down, they may become quite receptive to that "friend".......

Just my general thoughts on the subject.

Posted by: yodaamnot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

You're a guy, could you really just be friends with a woman without anything physical.. I mean, anything?

Margo,

On the lighter side perhaps you would like to have a look at the movie "When Harry Met Sally". I agree with Searcher in general.

Posted by: Margo930

Well, I still don't understand how we could go a whole year of..you know, and now for him to be like, "No physical...now we are just friends?" I mean, how can you be just friends after a year of sex? WHY would you want to be friends after a year of sex? I don't know if I would, or can. Isn't that a little weird for a guy to do that? Isn't it a little weird that I care?

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Well, I still don't understand how we could go a whole year of..you know, and now for him to be like, "No physical...now we are just friends?" I mean, how can you be just friends after a year of sex? WHY would you want to be friends after a year of sex? I don't know if I would, or can. Isn't that a little weird for a guy to do that? Isn't it a little weird that I care?

I think what's weird is that its come out of the blue, you would think that after that length of time, there would have been some pointers, or you would have discussed it, or discussed where the relationship was going.

John

Posted by: searcher

Well..... maybe ask HIM if he is expecting a COMMITMENT or something

I had similar feelings once, oddly enough, thinking that I wasn't going to be physically involved with a certain someone if they were just having a new experience with me or something as that wasn't my intentions at that time.

I can say with a certain degree of certainty, there is something he is thinking about very strongly. Its just a matter of getting him to talk or admit to what it is about.

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

I can say with a certain degree of certainty...

Isn't that like being a little bit pregnant or just a bit dead?

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

He did say that he loved me, but never said he was IN love with me. Unfortunately, now that I think about it, and I must be some dummy, he only said it to me a few times

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Well, I still don't understand how we could go a whole year of..you know,

Oh Brother... -or-... Oh, Sister!

Margo930... I am certain you are charming and, in general, a delightful person to be around.

BUT IF YOU WILL READ YOUR POSTS!!!

Would you agree (great sex or not) that your communication skills in a relationship could use some improvement? Do you see, no matter how great a relationship you have, that poor communication will undermine it?

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

No matter what people may say......sex is a very important part of a loving, successful relationship. Being friends after having sex for some time is possible but you will need to have broken up first and moved on to new relationships. A saying is 'love is blind' - but a sexless relationship !
It doesn't matter where you live in this worlsd otr who you chose as your partner sex will always play an important part in your relationship.
Communication is so very important !! You have to make your partner aware of your feelings. Otherwise he will feel everything is just 'hunky dory'.
If you get nowhere with talking say you want a trial separation or suggest sex theropy.
A relationship cannot/will not survive if the sexual side of things isn't right.
Just a personal opinion.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

Isn't that like being a little bit pregnant or just a bit dead?

I meant that I was confident about what I was saying, that in my mind there really wasn't any question in my mind that he was hiding his true thoughts/feelings.

Bad choice of words. I probablay should have said "A high degree of certainty..."

Posted by: Margo930

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

Well..... maybe ask HIM if he is expecting a COMMITMENT or something

No, I don't think he is expecting a commitment. We spoke about it and really, it seems he just wants to be friends. I guess he sees nothing wrong with the fact that we were having sex for a year, and now are just friends, and he calls me every day still. You see, I think I mentioned that I used to live five minutes away from him (very convenient). Now I live a half hour away, over a bridge, only acessible by driving (neither one of us at this point owns a car). That was when this all started to go down hill (maybe that's normal). I guess the problem is now, is that I want things to be the way they were before, even if I don't see him that often. I initiated trying to see him recently, and it didn't work out (he works at night, six days a week). I told myself I would never ask him again and I haven't. I know he is busy, but don't you think he'd be falling all over himself to try to see me? I get the feeling that he doesn't want to, but he still insists on calling me every day! If I say that I don't know if I should speak to him anymore he gets offended. Should I consider not talking to him for awhile and see what happens? What do I do?!

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Dump him like last weeks kitty litter!

It doesn't matter what his motivation is. It doesn't matter what his true feelings about you are. It doesn't matter why he wants to stay friends.

He has used you. He has abused your trust. He has cheated on you. He has lied to you.

Throw a rock into any crowd and the chances are excellent that you'll hit a better man than that one.

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Go with the friendship thing ................it's not exactly what you want. The next step is to start dating again. This will benefit you in two ways. 1) If this guy thinks of you romantically he will feel threatened by the attention you receive from other guys. 2) He wishes you well, you find a really great guy and your sex life improves 100%.
Take control of your destiny and stop waiting in the wings!!!

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

hey texas,

well, i'm in New York now. Brooklyn to be exact. I've been here for a while. I live in a Russian neighborhood out here, so thats how I got to know my friend. Met him at work in Manhattan, actually, and it turned out that he lived 5mins from my house. Just trying to be objective. I just don't understand why he keeps calling me. In fact, if I don't he gets upset, but i know it has nothing to do with keeping me on the side for recreation. You're a guy, could you really just be friends with a woman without anything physical.. I mean, anything?

Hey Margo... well, I was in Manhattan for a couple of years... lived about 1/4 mile from the WTC when it got hit.. saw it out my window!!!

But, to answer your questions YES, I have three good female friends where there is nothign physical... and I mean NOTHING... one is one of my two best friends and we do a lot of things together... there is a big thread with both sides saying the exact opposite...

Posted by: Hostile_hostage

Sorry.................if he's not having sex with you then perhaps he's being satisfied elsewhere.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Hmmmmm the plot thickens.....

Margo, you say you USED to live 5 minutes away and now over 30.. and it is hard to get to you... to be blunt, this sounds like you were a booty call... when he wanted some, call her up and within 5 minutes the clothes were off!!

Did he take you on dates? Was he romantic in any other ways, such as gifts, birthdays, visiting your family and friends???

Talking to you is not the same as being a boyfriend.. and sex does not make him a boyfriend...

Take it for what it appears to be... you both had some nice sex (I hope) and now it is time to move on to someone else... and yes you can remain friends...

Posted by: Khashyar

Welcome to the Russian Meeting Place, Margo.

It seems that once you moved 30 minutes away from him, that he stopped showing interest in you. It seems that if he had a genuine emotional interest in you, then he would have made an effort to continue the relationship. And yet, you mention that he calls you several times per week?

I think that it would be good for you to pay attention to his words AND his actions. If he doesn't make an effort to see you and to continue the relationship, then I think it is a sign that he is not interested in a relationship with you.

Although all people are different, my wife Lena has told me a few times that in Belarusian and Russian culture, that people are generally NOT friends with their ex boyfriends and girlfriends (or ex-wives or husbands), so it is a bit puzzling for me that he believes that it is o.k. for the two of you to be friends without a sexual relationship.

Perhaps either he is a different sort of Russian with different values and beliefs about relationships, or... perhaps he is not being honest with you and he wants to continue the sexual relationship (without the emotional relationship involvement).

I wish you the best of luck with this. Please let us know how you resolve this.

Khashyar

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

He did say that he loved me, but never said he was IN love with me.

Oh, I just came back to this cold place from beautiful Florida... And have found so interesting topic!

First of all, here we have a classical example of language mistranslation or misunderstanding... When Russians say "I love you" ("Я тебя люблю"), that actually means "I am in love with you"! That's why we say these words much less frequently than Americans do, by the way...

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincetonLion

When Russians say "I love you" ("Я тебя люблю"), that actually means "I am in love with you"! That's why we say these words much less frequently than Americans do, by the way...

That's interesting, Lion... I have to mention that to Lena

Posted by: BradIL

Now we have been through this debate before... but... to clarify:

The tangible difference between ***I LOVE YOU*** --- and ---

***I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU**** . . . is . . .

Posted by: clever1

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

Now we have been through this debate before... but... to clarify:

The tangible difference between ***I LOVE YOU*** --- and ---

***I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU**** . . . is . . .

It just looks as though in Margo's case it translated to
****I am with you ****
for 12 months anyway.

John

Posted by: BradIL

OK clever1... now we have...
I LOVE YOU

I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU

I AM WITH YOU!!!

Intuition tells me THIS is gonna get good!

Posted by: Margo930

Well, Happy New Year to everyone, and thanks for your wonderful advice. It's really appreciated. I guess, however, that I am just making things very complicated for myself.
Anyway, he is still calling me. We were not together for New Year. I had other plans to keep me busy, but he did go through the "Happy New Year Margo, I wish that 2006 is good for you, etc, etc. (he got all emotional, which I did not expect) He went to visit friends. He did call me again after 12 to say HNY again. When he did call, he made a big deal about an American who was there, like it was unusual, I don't know. I told him that I had to get off the phone, I was going out after midnight. He sounded depressed "OK go have fun at your party." that was it.
I think I may be looking into this too much, and I think that it is better if I do not talk to him, I'm not sure. I feel like a complete idiot for venting like this to you all, when I guess if I was reading what I write I would say that I was crazy.

But to Khashyar, maybe he thought we were friends while we were having a physical relationship, because he does NOT want one now, he said that to me. He just wants to be friends. That is why I do not understand why he still calls. If it was me, I'd just not speak to him. Then again, he was constantly taking me to movies, dinner, bania, went out for Valentine's Day, Birthday, all that, and I have met most of his friends (with the exception of some female ones). But he is definitely not looking for anything sexual, at least not right now. I don't know how that works. Maybe Lena has some insight on this. She is from Belarus, right?

And to PrincetonLion, Privet! Hope Florida was nice. He only told me he loved me those times after a little bit too much cognac! Can I really believe him, since you can never believe what a drunk man says? And what are some common things that are misunderstood or mistranslated?

Thanks and happy new year to all again! m It's been great to have help!

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Margo,

Are you now saying he doesn't have another woman?

Could it be as simple as him being gay? He may be struggling with this and unable to tell you...

You might want to examine your history with him in that light. I think you'll know if that is the issue.

Just a thought!

Posted by: Margo930

[QUOTE=Keith In Kodiak]Margo,

Are you now saying he doesn't have another woman?

Believe me, he's not gay. I can't figure out what it is, but truly, he's not gay.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

He only told me he loved me those times after a little bit too much cognac! Can I really believe him, since you can never believe what a drunk man says?

Alcohol lowers peoples inhibitions, I think he was most likely speaking his mind at that time.

He may have problems expressing his feelings. What don't you ask him if he is in love with you and see what he says???????

maybe he just wants to make sure its not just a physical relationship, have you thought about that?

Good luck and a happy new year to you too!!!

Posted by: Margo930

[QUOTE=searcher]Alcohol lowers peoples inhibitions, I think he was most likely speaking his mind at that time.

He may have problems expressing his feelings. What don't you ask him if he is in love with you and see what he says???????

maybe he just wants to make sure its not just a physical relationship, have you thought about that?

Hey Happy New Year to you too...

No, I'm not sure it's his feelings, maybe a miscommunication, but I doubt it. He never said he didn't love me, but one time when I confronted him, we got into an argument (not to bore you, it WAS my fault) and he was the one who said to me "Do you believe everything a drunk man says?"
I don't think he's serious about our relationship, and he knows that I love him, so I know that he knows it's not it's just a physical relationship. Obviously, I feel that if he loved me he would say it and not just after knocking back a few drinks. In fact, he becomes more affectionate when he drinks, which I have a problem with.

Posted by: Mariku

:/

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930one time when I [b

confronted him[/b]. . . we got into an argument (not to bore you, it WAS my fault) and he was the one who said to me "Do you believe everything a drunk man says?"
I don't think he's serious about our relationship, and he knows that I love him, so I know that he knows it's not it's just a physical relationship.

Been throught this situation more times than I can count. And I can read between the lines in this post.

Margo... you are taking an aggressive stance and PUSHING him. More often than not, these discussion take place when he does NOT expect it, in circumstances that are uncomfortable for HIM. You are pushing for firm answers on topics he believes are important, so he doesn't want to make promises rashly--- if for no other reason that in case he can't honor them he doesn't want to hear he is a liar and to hear you say "You can't be trusted".

But you are pushing him to make promises rapidly. You are assuming he KNOWS many things, but I'm not certain you express yourself clearly and unambigously.

He is SERIOUS about being a friend of yours, but you REFUSE to accept it, and you are slowly TUNING OUT what he is saying.

searcher is right... the cognac gets him to say things that are on his mind at the moment... but you want to extrapolate long-term committements from those circumstances... AND HE IS hesitating... especially when you pressure him.

In these circumstances this is one man who WITHDRAWS from the situation, and hope it goes away. In those instances, I figure the woman will be spiteful that things will not go her way, give her 3-6 months to get over it, and try for the friendship later, if she wants.

Posted by: MYXOMOR

I am confused, at what point did he tell you that he just wants to be friends, right after you moved? May be you were pushing him into the corner, asking him to define your relationship and that's when he asked if you could be just friends for now as in - lets get to know each other before we make any commitments?

Posted by: SteveM

Quote:

I think it is dangerous to generalise too much and try to put him into a Russian box or even Belarus. Yes there are ceratain generalities that can be usefully made but every individual is just that, an individual. Now for myself, I would always choose to remain friends, assuming that it was not a nasty break up. The way I look at it is that if I loved a person, but for whatever reason it doesn't work out in the sense of husband/wife then that is a great shame but why throw the relationship completely away. The guy is being very clear, even if he isn't explaining any of his reasons. He no longer wants an intimate relationship, but does not want to lose your friendship. Now maybe that is something that you can't do, but unless you have good reason to believe he is stringing you along as some kind of back up plan, then I'd accept that this is where your relationship is at and make a decision whether you are able to live with that. As an aside I have a very good friendship with my ex, and we were engaged and together 6 years. It can be done.

Posted by: Margo930

Well, I guess here is the end of my story. GET READY
I stopped calling him for a while after I did not see him for almost a month. I didn't see him for the holidays (not American or Russian Christmas or New Years). I stopped calling him, and he went crazy. I told him that I give up, and while I never said I was, he asked me if I was seeing someone. I didn't say yes, I didn't say no. He called me just as much as he did, if not more, and complained that I don't call him. I had decided I can't be his friend, at least not now. I had been helping him with a business he's trying to start, and I promised him I would finish it, even if I didn't speak to him often (this is just a matter of that I promised him I'd do this, it will only take a week or so).
He asked me to get together, and I really thought it's because I'm doing him a favor with the new business. Of course, he denied this. So, the other night I was IMing him and picture sharing, and he shares a picture of a document and I almost fell off my chair!!! I said, "I think you just sent me something I'm not supposed to see." It was a court affadavit of marriage to a person I recognised, a name that I saw on his phone bill recently but didn't question. I was so angry I thought I was going to have a heart attack. He told me he would explain but didn't want to talk over the phone, so, like an ass I went through with seeing him. He took me out, we went back to his flat, and HE'S MARRIED and has been for YEARS. Now, I don't know much about paperwork with these things, but he told me he only met her once, which I find hard to believe. I also know when he got his permanent residency, it was last year, and how could he be married like this and only meet her once and still be married now after he's got his residency? He says he wants to finalize his daughters paperwork before he divorces. When he told me about his ex in Belarus, he told me that he had known people and she would have been fine coming to America but refused. She did not want to come. So why would he need any assistance here and get MARRIED? What's worse, after we discussed this, and after I went through all the reasons why he's an ass for not being truthful and the fact that he's telling me this after we saw each other for over a year and all that time he was MARRIED and we were sleeping together, and then we weren't sleeping together, WE SLEPT TOGETHER! So, on top of the fact that I think he's still lying about something that he lied to me about (kept from me, I guess) for over a year, I'M the ASS!!!
Anyway, I can only guess what the replies, if any, will be to this post and my complete stupidity, but I just want to know: Why did he need to get married, and if he did it to speed up anything, why did it take him over 4 years to get residency; why is he STILL MARRIED?; and why would he tell me this now? Just so you know, after seeing him and sleeping with him, I have not spoken to him and he still calls me 5x a day. WHY???

Posted by: SteveM

I don't think you really need anyone to give any answers to this one. Clearly the specifics of the why's can't be answered while whether to continue in any kind of relationship with this guy is obvious to all.

Posted by: searcher

Well..... what a deception...

I think he is now sharing all of this because he thinks he can get back together with you. I *think* he has it in his mind that he will get a divorce (we'll see) and somehow marry you.

Just my guess!

Posted by: Spakoyna

Looks like this discussion should proceed to the fictitous marriage disscussion! Looks like he married for a green card.

Posted by: Pin Boy

this is the crap that bugs me to no end about women...treat em like a dog like this man did and they'll keep comin' around and comin' around....SHEESH!!

pin boy

ps why would anyone admit to this behavior???

Posted by: Margo930

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher

Well..... what a deception...

I think he is now sharing all of this because he thinks he can get back together with you. I *think* he has it in his mind that he will get a divorce (we'll see) and somehow marry you.

Just my guess!

No, he doesn't love me, and he just about said that to me. He was telling me because he's my "friend" and he "didn't want to keep it from me anymore". He made no mention of marrying me, or getting together with me, which is why I'm surprised that he bothered to tell me at all.

Posted by: Margo930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

this is the crap that bugs me to no end about women...treat em like a dog like this man did and they'll keep comin' around and comin' around....SHEESH!!

pin boy

ps why would anyone admit to this behavior???

Actually, I admitted it because it DID help me, at least. I felt a lot better after I posted it, and reading it back to myself reinforced the fact that the whole thing AND my behavior is ridiculous. Not to mention stupid.

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

In my first post I said this: Dump him like last weeks kitty litter!

It doesn't matter what his motivation is. It doesn't matter what his true feelings about you are. It doesn't matter why he wants to stay friends.

He has used you. He has abused your trust. He has cheated on you. He has lied to you.

Throw a rock into any crowd and the chances are excellent that you'll hit a better man than that one.

That was my first impression and it turns out to be the correct one. A decent man won't lie to you. A decent man won't sleep with you for a year without developing the emotional side of the relationship.

And when all is said and done it doesn't matter why a guy is a jerk, it's only important to establish that he is a jerk. When that is established then move on and don't look back!

Don't let men manipulate you. If you are not getting what you need and expect from a relationship (be it emotional, financial, whatever) then move on because it's not going to work out anyway and there's no point in prolonging the pain.

Posted by: Pin Boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

time will tell margo...i wish you good luck.

pin boy

Posted by: Dervish

Hello Margo!!!
I'm a New one on this site!
But i read your story...
I'm Russian guy too....but it is not mean that all Russians like your EX BF!
I think..That man just wanted from you something..and because of that he was call you..

But i really reccomend you..to forget about that man...and start new life...
You beauty young girl...and you will find your reall happiness....

P.S. Sorry for my mistakes...

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Welcome to the forum, Dervish!

Posted by: Margo930

Thanks, guys, for reading all my crap and giving me advice. I really needed all of your insight. Sometimes, no matter how crazy things are, you can't see things until someone else shows it to you.

It makes moving on easier. I guess I always knew, but was deceiving myself. And I let him take advantage of me, no matter if he was Russian or Western. I am not calling him anymore, and he's calling me all the time. He still thinks we are friends. I know that it's because he needs help from me, he doesn't care about me at all. I want to just not answer the phone until he stops, but is that right thing to do? I realize I should just tell him to stop, but a part of me doesn't want to confront him. Isn't that stupid?

Anyway, again thanks for everything.

And welcome to the forum, Dervish.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

I agree with your assessment... ridiculous and stupid....

AND, it seems like want to be more ridiculous and more stupid as I see some wavering in you last post... if you REALLY do not want to talk to him again, you would block his number... then you would not know how many times he calls and you would not have to think about him at all when he calls... right now, he still has you on a rope and can pull it at any time and make you jump... and eventually you will wear down and decide to 'just talk' and then oh well, let's sleep with him again... and then you will think that you are an ass again... stop it now and move on...

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Tell him to stop calling! If that's too confrontational for your style, get caller ID and don't answer when he calls. He'll get the message eventually.

Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Margo,

I want to add something that's difficult to say. When a guy deceives a woman (especially in the long term like this) on some level it's akin to rape. He has let you think there was an emotional attachment for a year. He has toyed with your emotions and your dignity. He has conned you out of the intimacy that a woman would normally reserve for someone she cared about.
He has violated you on a very deep level.

I'm not trying to rub your face in this, I just want to make sure you fully realize that he knew exactly what he was doing - he manipulated you for his own purposes for a full year!

Don't let him weasel his way back in! And take stock of yourself! People have a way of getting into patterns. We find ourselves attracted to the wrong people over and over again. We keep looking for the same traits in each new relationship even though they are poison to us.

Make sure your next guy is very different than this one!

Posted by: Dervish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Thanks, guys, for reading all my crap and giving me advice. I really needed all of your insight. Sometimes, no matter how crazy things are, you can't see things until someone else shows it to you.

Thanks for welcome!!!

Margo you can't even imagine how much i understand you and your situation.And why part of you don't want to lose your BF!Because my story is allmost the same like yours...but difference is,what you know what to do and you know how all this will end,but mine is continue with "unknow" ending....
Hmmm...I know this is really difficult to leave your guy,because you know him a looot time(Woooo 1 year is really big time period for relations)but as fast you leave your guy, more faster you will feel great...
Just think...your guy was lie you all that time,and it means that he will continue lie to you if you will be his friend(or gf)..Liers NEVER CHANGES....
Believe me...i was too have a gf who was allways lie to me.I was trying to change her and i talk with her and ask her not lie anymore.She said ok!From now on i stop lieing...Ohh yeahh..but only for few days.After week ago she continue lie to me..(her lie was sooo stupid)..i tired from her lie and leave her...but it was not easy i'm too was love her,like you your guy..but now i know i was do a right thing!!!

I really reccomend you to leave and forget about your guy as fast as you can..Yes in beggining you will feel bad(like i was)but remember one thing..when you will remember him.Just remember what he was do to you and how much he was lie to you...and you will feel better...Margo just believe to my expirience....

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

after we saw each other for over a year and all that time he was MARRIED and we were sleeping together, and then we weren't sleeping together, WE SLEPT TOGETHER! So, on top of the fact that I think he's still lying about something that he lied to me about (kept from me, I guess) for over a year, I'M the ASS!!!

It depends on your perspective. But sleeping together was Outlaw... and outlaw love can be the most exciting. Oh Margo... hopefully you've gotta a lotta of life ahead of you... don't beat yourself up too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Just so you know, after seeing him and sleeping with him, I have not spoken to him and he still calls me 5x a day. WHY???

He's trying to figure out what to do, just like you are.

Posted by: Margo930

77

Posted by: Margo930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Just think...your guy was lie you all that time,and it means that he will continue lie to you if you will be his friend(or gf)..Liers NEVER CHANGES....
I really reccomend you to leave and forget about your guy as fast as you can..Yes in beggining you will feel bad(like i was)but remember one thing..when you will remember him.Just remember what he was do to you and how much he was lie to you...and you will feel better...Margo just believe to my expirience....

[/QUOTE]

Privet! kak dela?
Thanks, dervish, you're right. I guess I do not understand why he lied to me.

Posted by: Margo930

He's trying to figure out what to do, just like you are.

What do you mean? I know he doesn't love me, because nobody would lie to someone for so long like he did. So what do you think he's trying to figure out? Not that it matters, really. I still have not spoken to him, and he's STILL calling.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

He's trying to figure out what to do, just like you are.

What do you mean? I know he doesn't love me, because nobody would lie to someone for so long like he did. So what do you think he's trying to figure out? Not that it matters, really. I still have not spoken to him, and he's STILL calling.

Margo..
.

It seems that you have gotten past the first stage... now you just need to keep there.. no backsliding.. Can you not block his phone number on your cell? I have heard from some with a cell that you can block certain numbers... I say this as the more he calls and the farther it is from your last 'hurt' the more likely it is you will go back even knowing he is bad for you... but, maybe I am wrong and you are a strong woman that can do what she says... if so, GO GIRL!@!

Posted by: Dervish

Privet! kak dela?
Thanks, dervish, you're right. I guess I do not understand why he lied to me.[/QUOTE]

Wooow ti znaesh Russkii yazik...COOL!!!
Privet Margo "From Russia with love"

Hmmm...Dela??Da vse otlichno kak vsegda!
A ti kak poshivaesh krasavitsa???
Hehe..It's your guy teach you a Russian language??
Tell me how good you know Russian Lan.???(Just for interest)

Glad that you agree with me,and plz understand..leave him it is the most good thing that you can do for yourself,because if he was lie to you so much time,it mean that it's never be stopped if you will be with him!!!!
Ehh..sorry,i can't say you,why he was lie to such good person like you..
Maybe he was just bored,and just wanted some fun and action...who knows
but now that's not importand,the most good think,that you know about his lie!
Like we Russians tells "Better later,than never"... ;-)
But don't worry about him! You young,beauty lady you will find your happiness with no prob dear..!!!

BYE!!! And goooooood luck for your hunt for happyness!!!

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

What do you mean? I know he doesn't love me, because nobody would lie to someone for so long like he did. So what do you think he's trying to figure out? Not that it matters, really. I still have not spoken to him, and he's STILL calling.

Its simple!!! He's trying to figure out a few things simultaneously. It sounds like he is trying to determine if he wants to end his marriage to the wife he neglected to tell you about (probable reason he didn't mention it); he does hold deep feelings for you, and he's trying to reconcile them with his marriage -or- determining how to balance his emotions (1 reason he does not want to lose contact with you); if you remain friends, he is trying to figure out what role you will have in his life, and how he involves you in the parts of his life you don't know anything about.

Margo--- it may be a stretch to say he loves you (implying committment), but he does have a strong attachment to you (sex does that). How much has he actually lied? He has not disclosed facts to you... but that is being not forthcoming--- which is different from lying.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

How much has he actually lied? He has not disclosed facts to you... but that is being not forthcoming--- which is different from lying.

Brad...

First, we do not know if he told her his situation.... BUT, I disagree with you on if he 'told' a lie.... now, I am not being legal as your answer is correct for legal purposes... but we are talking a relationship here... and if one partner is married and has sex with someone else... then it is a lie of omission...

The one person is lead to believe that the person is single when you start to date and have sex... since the other person KNOWS this is not true, then silence is the lie..

Let me do an annalogy (sp?).... Let's say he had AIDS... and did not tell her... now she has AIDS... do you not think he 'lied' to her??? Again, this is that there are assumptions made and if you know the assumption is wrong and do not disclose you are lying to your partner.. at least it is MY opinion..

Posted by: BradIL

TP: Granted... your AIDS hypothesis is an excellent point!

Maybe I am splitting hairs, but in Brad's past, I have chosen at times NOT to disclose everything about past relationships, or even recent relationships, as a new relationship is getting underway.

I always resented being accused of lying. No... I just wasn't forthcoming when I answered some pointed questions. That's different from deceiving someone... its simply *NOT* telling them relevant information. I didn't offer more than I was required.

I usually did this for a couple of reasons. If a recent relationship was ending, and my emotions/thoughts were a little unfocused, I did not want to have to answer 20 questions about it. It seems the girl is trying to form value judgments about it (early in this new relationship), and I really couldn't see what business it was of hers. I have found this very irritating in my single life.

Second... it seems I get presented with some pretty personal questions (that somehow I am expected to answer), but when I ask the same question all I get is stony silence. Soooo... I just kind of play it close to the chest. Especially when I am uncertain about what the hell I am doing!!!

I think this guy is trying to sort out how Margo fits in his life, he basically is confused (doesn't have a clue how to proceed), and is figuring it out as he goes. Its obviously driving Margo MAD!

Posted by: Texas Proud

Brad...

I think you are trying to split hairs.... your explanation is perfectly correct if in a court of law and perjury... there you have to actually SAY something incorrectly... if you answer a question truthfully but KNOW that it is being interpreted wrong, you do NOT have to correct this false thought and you did not commit perjury....

BUT, we are talking about a relationship... and not mentioning you are married is a LIE... in your example about the women asking you questions.. you should have either done what they did (stone face) or say I am not comfortable talking about it... OR, answer the question truthfully without getting into details..

If he had said early in the relationship that he was separated it would have been enough... I am not saying he must on the first date.. but at least before they have sex... so she can make a decision if she wants to proceed or not..

Posted by: BradIL

TP: You raise good points, but we may have to agree to disagree in a couple of instances. I have a "say" whether or not I am in a relationship. A woman's declaration that I am--- does not make it so.

I don't "OWE" an explanation to anyone about my life, especially when I just begin dating a woman. My life may receive detailed scrutiny after I pop the question, or there's an active discussion about marriage, but not before.

To that end... I can disclose, or not disclose, what I believe is appropriate. Certain health-related issues, perhaps legal issues, would be exceptions. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to spend time with me. Sex is really rather anecdotal in this context--- with me.

I will say I find it ABSOLUTELY IRRITATING that some women believe they can sprawl into my life because we've shared dinner. Unacceptable in all forms.

Not disclosing is NOT LYING! We'll have to disagree here. I can't *KNOW* how someone interprets what I tell them- unless they express this interpretation. I can't control another's emotions or decisions... I can control mine.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Brad... I will agree that we will probably agree to disagree.... but I kind of like the discussion, so I will continue

This is where we might have a major difference of opinon... I think that when you are having sex with someone, you are in a relationship UNLESS you have specifically talked about not being in one....

You never 'owe' anybody an explanation about your life.. with some of the exeptions you mentioned....

I also do not think dinner means a relationship... in fact, a few do not...

The best definition of lie is:

lie2 Audio pronunciation of "lie" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.

1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

v. lied, ly�ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.

1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

You keep looking at the first definition and I say that number two is also important.. In my opinion, someone who is dating a single woman (and having sex with her) is givign the IMPRESSION that he is available... since this is a false impression, it is a lie.

In you example, I do not see you giving a false impression...

And finally, the one big lie that I love the most is President Clinton... "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"..... and if you read the definition of sexual relation... he DID NOT... but Hillary thought he did!!!

(note.... I just looked it up and they have added another defintion to sexual relations... it is now.
sexual relations
1. Sexual intercourse.
2. Sexual activity between individuals.

#2 was not there before !!!)

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

This is where we might have a major difference of opinon... I think that when you are having sex with someone, you are in a relationship UNLESS you have specifically talked about not being in one....

Good TP: That is exactly the difference. We just see this differently, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

I also do not think dinner means a relationship... in fact, a few do not...

Glad we agree here! But I've been amazed how 1 date can give some the feeling they have license to barge into your life. Really amazing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

You keep looking at the first definition and I say that number two is also important.. In my opinion, someone who is dating a single woman (and having sex with her) is givign the IMPRESSION that he is available... since this is a false impression, it is a lie.

This is where I probably lack patience. Someone else will take their misguided perception and turn it into my lying. I can't control anyone else's thoughts or impressions... only my own.

I'll add this: Is TP, like Brad, disgusted when women justify their affairs (especially on TV talk shows) by saying 'well the marriage was over', even though a divorce action, or the even the filing of a divorce petition, is not before a court of law? These unilateral declarations by the other gender (accepted as being the truth) just don't square up with the 'your cheating on me, I'm the victim' complaints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

And finally, the one big lie that I love the most is President Clinton... "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"..... and if you read the definition of sexual relation... he DID NOT... but Hillary thought he did!!!

Remember... the grand jury hearing Clinton's testimony provided Bubba with a definition of sexual relation, that essentially said, did anybody touch anybody -or- take actions to arouse or gratify anybody. *Clinton* good God!

In a way... we differ... and we don't. I just feel sometimes I get herded into "you're in a relationship with me"... before I have really been asked, y'know? And I bristle when that happens. I feel restricted and that can irritate me.

Posted by: Margo930

Margo--- it may be a stretch to say he loves you (implying committment), but he does have a strong attachment to you (sex does that). How much has he actually lied? He has not disclosed facts to you... but that is being not forthcoming--- which is different from lying.[/QUOTE]

Hi Guys,

Well, I can see this has sparked some debate. I still haven't spoken to him, he's still calling, but...

He always maintained that we were "friends". Whatever that has to do with anything, I don't know anymore. Yes, he probably has an attachment to me, as evidenced by the frequency of his calls despite the fact that I do not return them. Yes, I probably could block or change my number, but honestly, I don't want to do that. I have feelings for him too, and in some wierd way it keeps the contact going because he's reaching out. I know that eventually he will stop, though.
As far as his marriage, I'm not sure of his motivations, because it took him 5 years to get permanent residency anyway and he's been married for 4. He does not live with her, and has not for the whole time I have known him (year and a half).
As far as lying, it's true, he never said, "I am not married." Therefore, in the traditional sense, he did not lie. But a single person who is looking for a potential long-term relationship would probably not have sex with someone that said, "Oh, by the way, I'm married". Maybe some would, but I think that they would be few and far between. He was very aware of my intentions, and it would have been unfair of him, at the very least, to assume that I wasn't looking for some kind of relationship. I mean, that he would think it was casual. The relationship also had longevity, it didn't go away after we had sex, and I lot of that was because of him continuing it. Continue the relationship for sex alone? I don't know, but he took me out constantly with his friends and we did a lot of other things together than just sex.
It's possible that he never disclosed his marital status in the beginning because he knew that by telling me it would ruin his chances of sleeping with me. If that's true, he lied. But I think that also implies a casual, brief affair. I could be wrong.
So, if it was just to get in my pants, I would consider it lying because it was not disclosed intentionally so that he could get laid.
But, after a year and a half of getting laid and essentially having a "relationship", even though he still maintained that we were just "friends", I'm at a total loss. I am not a man, and anyway, every person is different. What his reasons are for not telling me I will never know, but he did finally tell me. Why he told me after such a long time was my dilemma. I don't think he sees himself as married because of the circumstances. So, in a way it was not a lie, but by not disclosing it and them telling me after a year+ is baffling. At that point, if we are "just friends", why bother telling me at all?!!

Posted by: Pin Boy

you're still fooling yourself margo by not calling this dog a dog. have you considerd a good, certified family counselor? you do not need to be married to benefit from such a counselor.

pin boy

Posted by: BradIL

Margo... to be serious for a moment... please don't take my debate with TP or any of my other questions/remarks as being insensitive to your plight. Its apparent to me that you care about this guy... and I would imagine that shutting off contact with him is difficult. You probably want to take his calls but discipline yourself to avoid them to put the relationship behind you. I don't want to diminish the impact that has on you . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

It's possible that he never disclosed his marital status in the beginning because he knew that by telling me it would ruin his chances of sleeping with me. If that's true, he lied. But I think that also implies a casual, brief affair. I could be wrong.
So, if it was just to get in my pants, I would consider it lying because it was not disclosed intentionally so that he could get laid.

This prompts a question from me. You mentioned you were looking for a longer-term relationship... and you also mention that there were sexual fireworks, or a sexual dynamic, between the two of you.

How probable is it you would have slept together, including even on a casual basis, regardless of his martial status?

Posted by: Margo930

I never thought that that you were being insensitive, I thought it was very interesting, actually.
My "friend" and I, we met each other at work, and were real friends for 4 and a half months before we became involved (I'll spare you the details). So, no, if I had known that he was married I would not have persued anything, and plus in the first months that we were not physically involved he never said a word. He had been married in Russia, but he's divorced (which I know for a fact is true). He did not keep that from me.

Posted by: BradIL

Margo--- glad you don't see me as an aggrandizer of your tough circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

My "friend" and I, we met each other at work, and were real friends for 4 and a half months before we became involved

I appreciate this part of your post... and will state for the record... most of the meaningful dating relationships I've had all started with friendship. I guess this is why the writing part of all this is so valuable to me.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Yes, I probably could block or change my number, but honestly, I don't want to do that. I have feelings for him too, and in some wierd way it keeps the contact going because he's reaching out. I know that eventually he will stop, though.

Margo... I didn't want this part of your post to fly-by without a thought.

Don't blame you at all!

With the repeated (perhaps even the hint of 'frantic') attempts to talk to you, it must be reassuring-comforting, to know all that sex was meaningful to him. His chances of more sex with you appear pretty remote... he probably knows that... but he still craves you--- even if its just your voice on the phone. That's nice.

Posted by: Margo930

Thanks for all of the input that you've given me. I have a problem, though. He sent me some stuff for Valentine's day and I called him. STUPID!, I know. We spoke for a bit, and that was all. But I feel like I opened up a door again that I didn't want to. I was feeling a little sappy, you know, and I sort of lost my grip on reality.
We had a great talk, although short, and for a moment I considered the possibility of being able to converse with him on a friendly basis. If I am honest with myself, however, I'm not sure I am capable of pulling that one off, and I'm afraid I will fall into the same routine that I was before. I also question his motives for sending me gifts. In fact, given our history, I question his motives for doing anything except leaving me be. What do you think, besides the fact that I may be a complete dolt?

Posted by: Pin Boy

beside the fact that you're a complete dolt? well, there's nothing else to think when it comes to this situation, margo. yes, it's blunt, but you already knew the answer to that question. find a new guy. you take a very pretty picture.

pin boy

Posted by: Texas Proud

Margo... I am with Pin Boy... you ARE a dolt...

And if you even open up the door a little, you will be hurt sometime in the future.... but what the hey... it is your life...

I have said this before about a friend I know was dating a guy that lied to her, stole from her and cheated on her... but she went back to him for some reason.... and now about a year later, she has finally wised up even though she KNEW she should not be with this guy... but, has been evicted from her house, owes a lot more money and is feeling down... so now she has gone back to her ex husband for some sex to 'feel better'...

Listen to your HEAD and not your female feelings or you will be hurt..

Posted by: BradIL

Margo I might agree with Pin Boy and TP (except I don't think you're a dolt). You are still sentimental about this guy... but I think you are putting it behind you (and that can take a month or so). Consider this: the reason anyone shuts off contact with a significant other after a breakup is to let their emotions become settled. You can be great friends later... its just now... your vulnerable and uncertain about pursuing a relationship with a guy that may not be true, or exclusive, to you.

Don't fret over the Valentine's Day call. It was polite (the way I see it)... you LIKE this guy--- but hubby material... eh... you sound uncertain.

Let the dust settle a little. Say around mid-March or so... arrange to be somewhere he is and see how you feel. You can take the temperature of this as you go.

Now... I believe people change... NEVER SAY NEVER. If you are passionate about this guy... and he starts looking long-term as you (in a year or so)... its possible you can rekindle the passion. There is no hurry, you know.

Gotta agree with the gents above... you are a looker

... let other guys stroke your ego some and hit on 'ya! Nothin' wrong with that!

Udachi!!! (good luck) Take it a step at a time... I think you'll come out of this just fine... and in a few months... you will wonder what all the fuss was about. ---Brad///

Posted by: Margo930

Thank you for the compliment. I was feeling pretty bad because I darkened my hair (one of those "I'm single, try something different" moods), and everyone I know absolutely detests it. I guess I should post a picture of myself with my original haircolor.
Sadly, I still feel the same about him, even though I have been resolute in my decision, with the one obvious exception of Valentine's Day. I tend to believe, though, that when a man basically is telling you in so many ways that he cares for you, but doesn't love you, that sentiment does not change. I wish it were different.
That's why I don't understand his pressing need to stay in touch with me. I think perhaps he's used to talking to me and asking me for help and advice on everything American, as he was wont to do (any advice on the mental machinations of guys when it comes to emotional attachment?). I agree it's time to find someone else. I think I mentioned this, but I just accepted a job at American Express here in New York (across the street from where the World Trade Center was). There is no shortage of attractive, intelligent men, I can tell you. Manhattan is a wonderful place to be for that. I am hoping that will get me unstuck from the emotional rut I'm in.
Thanks again for reading these posts!

Posted by: Texas Proud

Hey Brad...

Let's not tell Margo, but I do not think she is a dolt.... I am just trying to hit her over the head with a 2X4... it seems that with some women, thier 'feelings' get in the way and they think that someone will be 'good' if they give them a chance... I do not think this guy is good and I think that the more she is around him the more she will want to give it a second chance and then she will be back talking about how "insert your own negative word here" she was...

Now, if he had been honest with her and told her up front and then they had the relationship and he decided to stop things.. and now is having second thought I would think differently... but, from what Margo has said, he was dishonest for over a year and only was interested in sex when she was convienent to him... she moved, no more sex!!! Maybe he has not been able to find an 'easy' girl and would like to get something regular going on again... who knows!!!

But Margo must decide if she want this guy or not.. and if she does, go for it... and if she does not, cut it off completely, no looking back, no regrets... being in the middle is a real problem

Posted by: BradIL

OK TP: Agree to keep this a secret from Margo... BTW... 2-by-4 swinging by Astros fans and Penn State fans (Pin Boy) is pretty effective. Especially when Penn State ruins a great cageball season by my beloved Fighting Illini!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

I do not think this guy is good and I think that the more she is around him the more she will want to give it a second chance and then she will be back talking about how "insert your own negative word here" she was. . . But Margo must decide if she want this guy or not.. and if she does, go for it... and if she does not, cut it off completely, no looking back, no regrets... being in the middle is a real problem

Yeah... this is a good point. I still think this guy is swimming in major confusion... because... BRAD HAS BEEN THERE AND DONE THIS! (Margo I've been where HE is!) Thing is--- you start what seems like a fun dating relationship... next thing you know its been 6 months and 'Oh My God" I might actually love her (read: devoted to her) and it stirs internal conflicts in me. It takes time for me to figure all this out, and it ain't easy! I have lost some great women because of this (and may have had a great marriage along the way). But I don't regret it... even though I am a bachelor (truest sense of the word/never married) at 45.

I see the signs of that confusion in Margo's guy... I empathize with it. He will have to sort it out... even if he loses her (seems highly probable)... but he should try to salvage a friendship out of it... that's been very nice for me in these situations (still friends with the girls to this day).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

I tend to believe, though, that when a man basically is telling you in so many ways that he cares for you, but doesn't love you, that sentiment does not change. I wish it were different.

Well... he has STRONG FEELINGS... thus all the drama. NEVER SAY NEVER Margo... sentiments DO CHANGE! As a man--- I assure you of this. YOUR SENTIMENTS of feeling unloved may not change, but his can!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

(any advice on the mental machinations of guys when it comes to emotional attachment?). I agree it's time to find someone else.

This guy is a bachelor who will DIE HARD! It will take a massive dose of love and affection to get me to pop the question... a task that sounds challenging... but I am certain it can be done. Girls just got that way about them, y'know? The difference in our hormones may cause Brad and Margo to react in different ways... but we're both human... and Margo I struggle with my emotions--- just like you. I appreciate how torn you can feel at times.

Margo... the move to Manhattan says it all. You start dating there... and well... you vibe with just one guy and this fellow will be history. TP is spot on with this... you date around/move on and this guy will fade into your memory.

Good luck Margo... hope you enjoy NYC. I *love* St. Louis (I have a lawn, oooooo), but NYC can be great in your 20's, for sure. ---Brad///

Posted by: Margo930

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

I still think this guy is swimming in major confusion... because... BRAD HAS BEEN THERE AND DONE THIS! (Margo I've been where HE is!) Thing is--- you start what seems like a fun dating relationship... next thing you know its been 6 months and 'Oh My God" I might actually love her (read: devoted to her) and it stirs internal conflicts in me. It takes time for me to figure all this out, and it ain't easy!
---Brad///

O.k., I think I understand what you are saying for yourself, but...he's basically told me that he doesn't love me, and I can't see anyone needing over a year to determine if they love someone. Also, if you could've had a great marriage along the way, but didn't, doesn't that prove that maybe you thought you loved them, but didn't? After all, you said you don't regret the outcome.
And if you're sure that a lot of love and affection would help you in the area of commitment (you know us girls!), then doesn't that indicate that you may not have met the person qualified to give you that extra love and affection yet? That may be the case with my guy. It's not his sentiment, it's just not me.
That doesn't explain why he calls so often (still 5x a day, believe it or not), even though I did slip and talk to him for Valentine's Day (I think Astro Jack should bonk me in the noggin with a 2 x 4, and I think TP would agree with that one).
Do you truly think he can be that conflicted? If so, why? Could anyone insinuate that they didn't love someone, and yet actually love them? I'm not understanding the possibility that any person could be that conflicted, be it a guy or a girl.
In any case, the new job is a blessing, and I know opportunity will come a knockin'. It does soothe me a bit that this may bother my friend, as cruel as it may sound. I don't believe he's inherently a bad guy, and a part of me wishes this situation (and his feelings) are changing, but if they were, I don't know if I could trust his intentions.
Thanks for your input AGAIN!
BTW, thanks also for your indirect compliment...my 20's, sadly, are but a memory for me.

Posted by: BradIL

Well Margo... a time-tested adage says actions speak louder than words. Regardless of 'he basically told you- I don't love you'... calling 5 times a day says something else. You wish things would change, but you answer it by saying trust is damaged beyond repair. I think that's why Pin Boy and TP are rootin' for you to blow this guy off and move on... and I get the same inference from you (that you are moving on).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo930

Also, if you could've had a great marriage along the way, but didn't, doesn't that prove that maybe you thought you loved them, but didn't? After all, you said you don't regret the outcome.

Oh I loved them... no doubt about it! I just wasn't confident about a marriage for one reason or the other. It seemed easier to not try... again, for a variety of reasons. I regret this... I know some great women... it would have been great to live with them day-after-day... my life would have been better for that- BUT I'm not sure the marriages would have lasted. I am glad I don't carry a big bundle of pain with me. Life as a bachelor in America ain't so bad (I'm proof-positive at 45!)... but it can get a little empty at times.

30-ish and in Manhattan has its carefree moments, to be sure. All the best!