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Myths (and misconceptions) about Russian men
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Posted by: aqua

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Posted by: andrei

It may be your personal view but I agree with it totally... Your post has so much deep thought in it... After reading this, all that silly talk about Russian men being sexist alcoholics with no plans and no future seems even more stupid.

Posted by: Keith

Quote:

Originally posted by aqua

...hopefully someone will read it.

Or maybe women feel somewhat guilty for leaving their motherland and subconsciously try to justify their behavior?

I know that men do cheat on their wives but it’s not done as boldly and regularly as it is often presented here.

I suspect that the real reason for divorces (at least in bigger cities, among professionals) is the overall social instability and the vacuum of values and ideals. Soviet values are long gone but nothing have replaced them.

I think that despite all the problems of intercultural communication, adjustment, etc. international marriages are mostly successful because people (mostly) don't rush into them blindly and they really know what they want.

"Aqua":

Well stated! I hope everyone reads this particular posting. You mentioned something that I had never thought of in my short time of considering the problem about the reported ratio of men to women. I think your rationalization theory is a likely explanation. I don't think your comment was meant to be one-sided but women do cheat too! There seems to always be a tendency to label men as the cheaters. If the male to female population is about even then who are all of these men cheating with? I do agree with your position on a possible explanation for divorce is social instability. In fact, your wording in the same sentence was excellent..."vacuum of values and ideals." Finally, it's easy to get caught up in the pros and cons of this and lose site of the "big picture." Your last comment was interesting to me because it placed the matter in a sensible perspective. Thank you for your comments as I enjoyed reading your views on these topics. Discussion does promote understanding.

Keith

Posted by: pharmrep2

Hi Aqua
What could I say that has not already been said by Keith and Andrei. Great job on that post, and sharing your points of view. It is very interesting and convincing. I agree and believe every point you made. You should definitely think of putting this is a separate post it is that good. I like your rational and logical way of thinking. Thumbs up!!!!!

Dax

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone...

I thought that this topic was both important and interesting, so I placed this subthread (that was in a post about population statistics) into it's own thread...

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Tasha...

No one is going to throw wrotten tomatoes at you, and I certainly do not expect that anyone is going to respond meanly to you for expressing your opinion here

I do want to respond to a couple of your points soon (which I should be abel to do in the next couple of days when I have some more free time from working on my current documentary film).

But, as I have mentioned in the past, I respect and appreciate your thought, opinions, and contributions to this forum.

Khashyar

Posted by: OlenkaKyiv

Tasha, I love your logical posts. I don't want to throw tomatoes and frankly speaking don't want to tell many opposit things in return. Probably we really grown up in different conditions and see life in different ways.

The matter that we judge by our own expirience and what we hear from other people.

Just wanted to tell that in the same day I have read your post I talked to 3 ladies whom I met first time. When they have got to know that I am going to get married with man from US, they told me: "you do right. It is not possible to find true man in Ukraine. They seem to die like dinosaurs, only drunk and selfish faces without any thoughts of their families". These ladies don't know each other, one divorced, another one lives with her husband, not sure about another one. They are in age so they have life experience and I think saw a lot. And of course they talk not only about young men.

I have recalled my Dean of law faculty who was drunk often, I recalled lecturers who came to lectures being drunk and not only in my University, I hear the same stories from other friends who studied in different Universities. They are not simple workers without any education, they are people who achieved a lot.

I know a man who take a part in sauna parties often, who has many lovers. He has beautiful wife! and 2 children. "why do you do this? maybe better to leave family and live apart, by own life?" I have heard an answer: "oh.... what will people tell?? will she go to another man? no... i don't want it will happen. Again seek for another woman? Now I have home and wife who is cleaning, washing, cooking and taking care about my children." No care about her feelings, only care about own comfortable life of himself.

well.... it is really lack of values here in my country, I won't tell all reasons, because I think I would have to go far in history. I decided to try to communicate with men from Ukraine and Russia who immigrated to US. There are different conditions of life and after long living there probably they changed their mind. I have met online one guy from Kiev. I asked some question about Ukrainians in US, about life. He emailed inviting me to Russian chat. I logged on and I was shocked to see such words about myself (they was not sure I would logg on so fast) like: "another scam have found American because of Green Card", "what the hell she goes here, there are enough of them". Well... i shown myself and received an answer: "sit in your Ukraine and don't rush here". Polite answer, isn't it? I am in Internet for 2 years and I have met many young and mature men from other countries. I am saying honestly, i never had such attitude to myself from foreigners. NEVER.
Another my friend is from Russia who lives and works in Brooklyn. He is really nice man and he is that example who is not like men I told before. He said that it is very hard to comunicate with Russians. Americans are really simpler.

I told you only stories without blaming or making conclusions. Just stories from life.

Different people different minds. My girlfriend told that she never would change her the worst Ukrainian guy on foreigner. It is her choice.

One feature of Russian guys I really like!!! And I think only they possess this feature - they are unhesitating in their decission. I know the most foreign man will think for long time whether this girl is good for him or not, whether she is a scammer or not, he will post her letters on Forums and show to other men. (I think it is privat life of him and her). If Russian man loves a woman, he can leave home, family, friends and go to her without any fear of long flight, he won't think of whether he will stay with her or not, it wil be just a wish. We call such men "without head". I have heard stories when foreigners didn't come to Ukraine only because of fear of flights or post Soviet life here, even loving their ladies much. I think that only few of such fearful men you could find in Russia. It is my own mind and maybe some girls will think that it is my crazy idea, but I think it is the best great feature of Russian guys and you won't find it anywhere else on such high level.

Of course we can find common lives, common problems in every country. We are people and we have the same nature, but we live in different cultures and it is important ground for our tempers and styles of life.

Olenka

Posted by: Khashyar

I appreciate the respectful tone and intelligence that both Tasha and Olenchka can speak about their different views about this topic.. Thank you

Also... I wanted to express that it is interesting to read your perspectives that are coming from the experience of Russian women...

Khashyar

Posted by: Woody

Aqua,

read your thread for the first time this evening and have to commend you on the way you have put your point across. In searching for a answers to reasons why women and men look across to other countries/cultures/continents all sorts of theories are devised. And the reason for all these theories? Because there is no one simple answer. Many 'neat' attempts are made to construct boxes into which people can be dropped. To disentangle one's self from this stereotypical formula shows clarity of thought and open mindedness. Thanks for a peek at the alternative experience.

Clive

Posted by: Khashyar

I appreciate you wanting to be fair to Russian men, Tasha....

I think that everyone's thoughts and perspectives based upon their personal experience is valid....

I was thinking that perhaps Russians in St. Petersburg are different than Russians in Ukraine or from Mogilev, just as Americans in Los Angeles are different from Americans who live in a small rural town in Texas.....

Actually, a Russian acquaintance of mine told me once that "every city in Russia with a population under 1 million people is a village"

She was very serious about this belief of hers (She lives in Moscow

) Lena didn't agree with that quote (because she comes from a Belarusian town of about 400,000 )

But, my serious point here is to say that perhaps Tasha, Olenchka and (my) Lena have experienced the subject of Russian men in their own unique ways, and based upon their experiences in three different localities in the former Soviet Union. I actually find that receiving the input and perceptions of women from three different former USSR countries helps us get a clearer and more well-balanced understanding of Russian life and culture.

I think that if you express what you experienced from your personal examples and anectdotes, or express research statistics about a subject, then you are actually helping to foster a positive and beneficial discussion rather than spreading a general and less helpful stereotype.

So, I think that it is both valid and interesting that Olenchka, Tasha, and (my dear

) Lena are sharing their different personal examples regarding Russian men. I think that all of their experiences are valid, and by listening deeply to every one of your experiences, that we can learn something deeper about this issue.

Khashyar

As long as you are expressing what you have experienced in your personal life, then you are

Posted by: Jutman

Of course is there good russian men, but as my lady say:

2 maybe 3 men out of 1000.

I have seen Russian men behavoir with my own eyes, and its not a pretty view.

I will soon tell my story.

Posted by: Khashyar

It is good to have all of these different perspectives.

Of course there are all kinds of people, "good" and "bad," everywhere...

I DO think that it is helpful for people to share their specific experiences and examples that come from their own life.... These personal stories and experiences are interesting, and I think can help us gain more understanding about it.

I look forward to reading your story, Brian...

Khashyar