Why are many Russian Women spiteful to each other? (jealousy amongst Russian people) - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Why are many Russian Women spiteful to each other? (jealousy amongst Russian people)
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Posted by: Spakoyna

Hello,Everyone!

I have been a reader of this forum for more than 2 years. I will give a little history before I address my question. I have known my wife for more than 2 years and we have been very happily married for more than a year. I have wanted to post to many discussions but wanted to wait until the love of my life was completely comfortable with this and understood all. We hope to be able to constructively participate in future discussions. This is truely a wonderful forum and helps many people.

Now to my question! I post this question in hopes that many Russian ladies will read this and think about what I am about to say! During our relationship we have met many other couples. There seems to be an inherent desire among Russian women to make sure they appear and are better than other Russian women. The first questions almost always asked of my wife always pertain to how well we live and how much money we have. My wife does not like to entertain these questions. Then the conversation always evolves into the other lady trying to make my wife think she has more of everything and a better life than she does, even about simple things such as what food we eat!

I am very happy that my wife does not follow this terrible road of envy. Several ladies my wife has been acquainted with have eventually realized that we are living better than she is. Then her conversations evolve into complaints about her life.

The other ladies she knows which are on par with us or have more money are always trying to flaunt what they have at her!

What is even funnier is many of these women are people she knew before she came here. In one instance the spite has traveled to Russia and back here trying to harm our relationship. This was accomplished through one of her acquaintances who was a good friend of a lady that worked at their agency.

Mysteriously I started receiving emails from women in an agency that I never participated in! A story my wife related to me about her past...she was becoming serious with a man...at one point during her relationship with him he mysteriously received letters she had written to other men before she met him! Here are some of the other things that have happened: Several ladies have gone out of their way to try and make my wife jealous by revealing...and I mean revealing themselves to me so I will pay attention to them!

(I will say there is no doubt they are looking for a better relationship), some have told blatant lies of things I said about my wife to their husband trying to upset my wife, others have told me directly with my wife present that my wife is very stupid! (This is unbelievable!). I could continue but I think you are getting the meaning of why I opened this discussion!

Well, I hope and think I have begun a discussion that will be very useful and constructive. I now understand why a wonderful woman who helped my wife and I early in our relationship warned me not to let my wife begin talking with other Russian women when she first arrived here.

The best part about all this is it has allowed us to truely grow together,have faith in each other, and most of all trust each other.

We look forward to what other's have to say about this and look forward to participating more in the future! Best of Luck and wishes to all.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Welcome to the RMP (as a poster) Spakoyna

Interesting 1st post....

To sum it up in one sentence
Good men are hard to find & women can be *****es?

I too am happy that my wife isnt in this catagory also

I guess men can be *****es and good women hard to find also.

Errrrr is bi(t)ches a bad word?????

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

I've tried to encourage Seida to find Russians in Sheffield (with my help locating them of course) but she isn't really interested. The main reason she put forward - which was reiterated by a Russian man at the same language school - is that a lot of Russians abroad consider themselves special; they have acquired a good education and a good job, and having moved abroad consider themselves unique, so they really don't like to hang around with other Russians, because then they become less special.

I don't know how true this is, but it's the opinion of Seida and the Russian student guy (who is becoming our friend - and is from a very different social and academic spectrum to Seida).

They also - tangential to the original comment - feel that Ukrainians now are having anti-Russian sentiments (a bit like the Welsh anti-Englishness of the 80's & 90's), and that some will even deny being able to understand Russian now, saying they only speak Ukrainian; whilst they (the Russians) thought of the Ukrainians as their 'brothers'.

Ade

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

Hello,Everyone!

Welcome, Spakoyna, to the RMP forums...

I appreciate that you decided to register and post & share your experiences so that others might benefit.

I look forward to reading your posts and threads.

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

To contribute my thoughts about jealousy and Russian women/ people:

Lena tells me that in Belarus, that people often are jealous by other's "successes," and Lena's mom has to be careful who she tells about a "new washing machine" (that was purchased with help from Lena and me), and other things that her neighbors might consider successes.

Lena's good friends here in the U.S. support Lena in her successes, are do not express any jealousy. There is Russian woman who Lena knows in the U.S., who does express jealousy and tries to verbally negate or dismiss Lena's successes, but Lena is less interested in maintaining that acquaintanceship.

I think that the extent of jealous feelings depends on the person, but that it may exist a bit more in Russian culture because there were fewer opportunities for success and accomplishment in Russia than in the West (where everyone has the opportunity to acheive their goals through hard work.

Lena and her Russian friends who have moved to the U.S. comment that it is much easier to acheive ones pesonal and business goals here in the U.S. than in Belarus and Russia, so perhaps Russian people in the former USSR are apt to become more jealous than someone in the U.S. (or West) who have more opportunities.

Khashyar

Posted by: myshka

Its often said, that people from FSU are like crabs in a barrel, one climbing up, trying to get higher and the rest pulling them down, instead of letting them stand on their back. (this is said by Russians)

Its sad to think that people would not be encouraging success, and reveling in their friends successes but its true. Its a cultural thing, unfortunately.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Are they becoming westernized?the irish are a bunch of begruders, thats one thing we are.

Irina too doesnt feel the need to meet up with russians here also,
but when in russia i dont feel the need to meet up with Irish, except in a bar of course.

Meeting Barbs' Vera will be different becuase barb is one of my friends, or is the the equal status.

Posted by: searcher

I posted a related topic here because I have noticed similar negatives.

It seems that for some reason among many women from the FSU, there tends to be a certain amount of negativity in form of: mistrust, jealousy, resentment, etc...

Sometimes it comes across as being cynical (though i'm not sure if it is intentional).

Often, it seems, women tend to degrade or negate other women.

A quote I once heard, "I do not trust women, they can not be trusted" and that seems to be a fairly common attitude.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Ade,
I do believe their are hard feelings between Russians and some of the FSU countries. I did a 2 city tour and went to Moscow and Kiev. I told my now wife if all went well with us I would take her to Kiev with me and skip the socials.

Well,needless to say we went to Kiev together! There were several instances where the hard feelings were obvious. It began immediately when we arrived in Kiev. The Ukranian Lady with the tour was adamently against my wife riding the bus with me which the tour provided. Yes, I made arrangements beforehand. She was trying to force us to take a cab! Now when I look back it is funny because of all the cab drivers listening and following us around like we were dragging them by a rope. With the help of some of the others on the tour and my persistance she had no choice but to cave in!

My wife has no predudices against others. She is very quick to point out that most of the Russian people including herself had no control over what her government did. Does this sound familiar? This is true in any country. I will say you would not like to know what the Ukranian security gaurds at the hotel were saying about us Westerners! My wife's best friend here is from Uzbechistan.

Kashyar,
My wife relates to what Lena is saying exactly.She still has many concerns for her family because evryone thinks she is married to a rich man and wants a piece of the pie so to speak.

Now lets go a step further. My wife does not like to talk about her life to other people. She has given me permission to write about this experience she had.My take on this is many Russian women not only wish to pull their peirs down but quite enjoy hurting each other.

A few years before I met my wife she had a long relationship with another man.She traveled with him many times and even went through the fiancee process.Well,things did not work out between them.She ended the relationship.When she came home the last time she was horribly ridiculed by everyone. The people she worked with, her friends,her neighbors,and everyone at the agency she participated in.She was not a good woman and could not maintain a relationship was the jest of things. These women were telling her she should marry the man.They could not understand she wanted to marry a man she truely loved. I think Russian woman get the gold medal in the gossiping department!

This did put a twist in our relationship.She was very cautious and was careful about who saw us together in the begining.I'm sure you can imagine how it made me feel.Yes, I had the wrong types of thoughts racing through my mind.The climax of this was her opening up and explaing everything to me. This was when our relationship jumped on a rocketship. She realized that yes, I can tell him my bad experiences and they will not damage our relationship.She finally rid herself of all the skeletons in her closet and was able to relax.

Yes, she did get her satisfaction in the end.We lived at her apartment the last time I visited for about 6 weeks while we were waiting on her visa interview.Yes, we were seen together and everyone knew I was not a Russian man.Well, a few months after we left and were married my wife enjoyed a tremendous smile from conversations with her brother and mother.Her family is also very reserved about speaking about personal things. Well the rumors started and the snide remarks started growing. Finally her brother had enough. One day a lady came up and said to him "Where is ******" is she hiding in her apartment because the man did not want her?" With a big smile he said "no! she is married and is living in America!" He said the lady looked like she had been run over by a Mack Truck!

Myshka,
My wife says that saying is exact! But not all Russians are that way.

Lep,
What is your lovely's tak on this discussion?

Searcher,
I thought long and hard about whether to add this post to uor thread or start another as it is similiar. I will tell you what all these actions between the ladies reminds me of. My 1st years in school and my 1st girlfriends.I'm sure many remember the shinanigans and plots in those early years!

Posted by: Tatysik

Hi Spakoyna and Everybody!!!
One member's RMP said: The best ladies not in Ukraine, they are from Ukraine

I think it is the same with Russian ladies. I lived in Ukranie, but mostly spoke in russian. My mom was Ukranian, father-Russian, I am going become American soon (I really hope)

It doesn't matter where you're from.

There are a lot a good people everywhere, and there are a lot a bad people everywhere. I have 'friends' of mine in Ukraine that are really jealous of me,I just don't pay attantion to them because of their talking behind my back.But I have some friends (ladies)who really happy for me and Mike. My english teacher and his wife supported and helped me as well as they could, and they still write to me and help with the laguage.
Since I have been in America only 4 months I have met good people who became my friends and I've met a some people I don't want to see them in the circle of my friends.
We have a saying in Ukraine: A friend is someone who can share your grief if you have a problem. But a good friend,from Novgorod, Russia, said that the really friend it is one who will share your joy and happiness when you have successes.
It is truth. Think about it.
I guess it depends on the people. You and your wife have a good chance pick people who could be in thr circle your friends. It is a hard time now for Russia and for Ukraine. Of cource it reflects on people. Forgive them, and don't hold it close to your heart.
My Loving husband Mike and I wish you could meet more good people.
I don't think that the jealous nature of women is geographic. It is the nature of some people. Male and female.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Привет!
Спасибо за твое письмо. Я не жалуюсь на то, что я не имею здесь друзей. Мой муж мне самый хороший друг, помощник и моя любовь. Я познакомилась со своим мужем через агенство. Приехав сюда, мне не с кем было общаться здесь в Америке. Я хотела найти друзей среди русских женщин в Америке, но у меня этого не получилось. Я не хочу говорить плохо о каждой из них. У меня не сложились с ними дружеские отношения. Я думаю, что только одна женщина из них счастлива в браке. Остальные счастливы в чем-то другом......
В Pосси у меня есть друзья, с которыми я знакома с детства , юности. Я с ними до сих пор нахожусь в дружеских отношениях. Одна из них хочет приехать к нам в гости в том году. Не знаю, получит она гостевую визу ? Я так поняла, что многим отказывают в визе.
Что касается сплетен , они растут как снежный ком. И становятся все больше и больше. И людям не важно правда это или нет. Главное было бы о чем поговорить, обсудить и получить удовольствие от этого. Улыбка.

I have transalted what my wife has written below. We did this using prompt as a start and then discussing what she was saying. We welcome any critics on the translation!

Hello!
Thanks for your letter. I do not complain that I don't have friends here. My husband is my best friend, assistant and my love. We became acquainted through an agency. After coming to America I have found very few people to talk with. I have tried to find friends among Russian women in America, but I have failed. I do not want to speak poorly about any of them. I was not able to develope a friendship. I think only one woman from them is happy in a marriage. The others are happy in something other than relationship.
In Russia I have friends with whom I am have known since childhood. I am still friendly with them now. One of my friends wants to visit next year. I do not know if she will receive a visa? I understand that many are refused visas.
As to gossip, it grows like a snowball rolling down a hill becomming bigger and bigger.It is not important to people whether it is the truth or not,they only want to enjoy the gossip and discuss it. A smile.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Use Unicode UTF-8 to read this

In Internet explorer click, VIEW >>> ENCODING >>> UTF-8

Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leprechaun

Use Unicode UTF-8 to read this

In Internet explorer click, VIEW >>> ENCODING >>> UTF-8

Thanks Lep...I thought it was just jibberish, now I have deciphered it, it is still jibberish!! but at least it is Russian jibberish and I can handle that!!

it is also the same in Mozila

VIEW....CHARACTER ENCODING.....Unicode (UTF-8)

Posted by: Leprechaun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrismc

Aye, i was never good with hieroglyphics either

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade

a lot of Russians abroad consider themselves special; they have acquired a good education and a good job, and having moved abroad consider themselves unique, so they really don't like to hang around with other Russians, because then they become less special.

Ade--- interesting comment!!!

The few Russians you find in St. Louis that hangout together would agree... but this situation begins to dissolve after some period in the US. A few women... compatible or not... gather once-a-month or so to speak Russian! After their 2nd year here they get hungry to hear their native tongue. Guests are welcome to join them... but you better speak Russian (or at least try)! No English at their table.

For Seida... we can only speculate at the moment how her seperation from the Russian language (as her natural 'first' tongue) will impact her. But after 2 years I wonder if she'll begin to crave the company of other Russians? Any guesses, Ade?

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

For Seida... we can only speculate at the moment how her seperation from the Russian language (as her natural 'first' tongue) will impact her. But after 2 years I wonder if she'll begin to crave the company of other Russians? Any guesses, Ade?

If she's like Liliya, err....ummm..... NO! Don't get me wrong, she loves the language and feels most comfortable speeking in her native tongue, but after 2.2 years here, Lil has exactly *zero* russian friends here and couldn't be bothered enough to worry about that fact. Too many american friends to give it much thought (or it just goes back to the "staying special" theory

)

Posted by: Pin Boy

i have become acquainted with a 21 yr old ukrainian and his ukrainian girlffriend through the gym and he does not want to associate with any ukrainians. says that they just ***** and moan about this and that, complain wages are not high enough. did not go into much more detail, but he said if they don't like it here they should go back to ukraine and work for $50 a month. he's a go-getter who likes to find work and put in a full day doing a variety of jobs like some carpentry, fence installation, road repair, buying a selling some small equipment at auctions. takes the work wherever he can get it.

pin boy

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_FL

)

Posted by: lindochka

Speaking from the perspective of an AW with many FSU friends and acquaintances (not to mention relatives over there), I've noticed that some FSUW aren't only spiteful to each other.

Some years ago I met a recent arrival who was looking for work; she seemed very nice and we became friendly. I recruited her into a volunteer program for which I was the supervisor and which offered a stipend equivalent to a small salary, mentored her in the program for a year, and subsequently helped her to get a very good job in my (government) agency -- this involved finding someone to evaluate her educational credentials so she would qualify to take tests, filling out the job applications, coaching her about the tests themselves, making sure that she came to the attention of the person doing the hiring, and so on.

Less than two years after she arrived in the US, she had a very respectable white collar government job. I continued to help her, showing her the ropes of civil service employment and freely sharing my professional experience.

I'll skip the details of what came next other than to say that it became a case of "no good deed goes unpunished." (If you know the classic Bette Davis film "All About Eve," you can easily fill in the blanks.)

OTOH, there's my friend Marina, who happens to come from a town about a half hour from where my folks live. We've learned a lot from each other in the two years since we've met, constantly trading insights on life here and life there. She's a smart, delightful, wise, and funny woman who has patiently listened to me whining about being apart from my fiance and who has provided me with innumerable insights into the character of "our Belarusian men." (My fiance is well aware that he owes her a lot!)

I do think these kinds of things are culturally based rather than gender-based, though. My hometown has a pretty large Russian-speaking population, and I live about a ten-minute drive south of the russkij rajon. My fiance doesn't yet speak English and he was pleased to know that even without English he still could go to the store, rent movies, and so on without my having to be with him.

But when I told him that I was considering selling my house and moving a little further up, into the russkij rajon proper, he was opposed. It's actually a nicer area than where I currently live, and I thought that as a new arrival he would find it a little more comfortable and convenient, but he doesn't want to live among a lot of other FSU immigrants.

I don't know whether he wants to stay "special," or doesn't want to deal with how other people from the same culture might view/treat him, or what -- he didn't elaborate. I do know that my acquaintances who live outside the russkij rajon have had an easier time acclimating to American life (once they got over the initial culture shock), so I'm not inclined to debate the issue with him.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindochka

but he doesn't want to live among a lot of other FSU immigrants.
I don't know whether he wants to stay "special," or doesn't want to deal with how other people from the same culture might view/treat him, or what -- he didn't elaborate.

Oh, I understand him soooo much!

Posted by: lindochka

I thought you would, PL, and I was hoping you'd come along -- can you elaborate on that? In my fiance's case I was thinking that his experience of life in a small town might be at least part of his concerns. (Where he lives, everyone knows your business to the point that complete strangers knew exactly who I was during my first visit several years ago!)

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

And Brad - sorry for the delay in responding. I think Seida really isn't bothered about meeting Russians, and does want to fully learn English....but she loves it when Alex (the Russian fella at her language school) or Ralf (my Russian speaking German psychiatrist friend) are round at ours, so she can speak Russian. I think it's the natural language speaking part she likes.....and I'd guess that is at least partly because she doesn't have to think at all when she's doing that, as opposed to when she's speaking English.

Interestingly, back on the main theme, the woman who was teaching me Russian recently had quite a personal conversation with me, but asked that I keep it private because of the general attitude of the (miniscule, as far as I know) Russian community in Sheffield.

Ade

Posted by: mtbclay

Hi all,
This is an intersting thread, it sheds some light on two experiences I have had. The first being my former GF in Sevastopol. Her reasonings for ending the relationship never made any sense. One her statements was that her girl friends were asking how come she has an American BF and live the way she does (from what I saw I thought she lived OK). So I am wondering if there was pressure on her from envious friends. I suppose in this case I will never know. (Of course there is much more to the story.)
The other is the lady I am in communication with now. She asked me if she comes here, if I would buy her a Cadillac. At first I was a little put off at the request. I know she would need a car regardless, so I told her that I could buy her one that is 3 or 4 years old. She was excited, and told me that she would send photos back to her friends in Ukriane. They would not know whether it was new or used. Just that they would be envious. I thought this statement was a little odd, and asked her if she thought by doing this she would alienate her friends. I received no answer, perhaps through the language barrier she did not understand. So perhaps this is part of the culture. I think I shall learn and understand more after my visit in 3 weeks.

Clay

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtbclay

my former GF in Sevastopol. Her reasonings for ending the relationship never made any sense. One her statements was that her girl friends were asking how come she has an American BF and live the way she does (from what I saw I thought she lived OK). So I am wondering if there was pressure on her from envious friends.

Clay--- I never considered there could be such social pressure on a Russian girlfriend! What an eye-opener!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtbclay

She asked me if she comes here, if I would buy her a Cadillac. At first I was a little put off at the request.

You certainly handled this better than Brad. I'm afraid I would have to say, "Sure sweetie... we'll get you a caddy... just as soon as we pay off the loan on Brad's $80,000 Mercedes Roadster

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtbclay

I told her that I could buy her one that is 3 or 4 years old. She was excited, and told me that she would send photos back to her friends in Ukriane. They would not know whether it was new or used. Just that they would be envious.

Well Clay... with all the estrogen that courses through the veins of the 'lovely gender'.... they just can't HELP THEMSELVES, can they?

Posted by: mtbclay

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

Clay--- I never considered there could be such social pressure on a Russian girlfriend! What an eye-opener!

You certainly handled this better than Brad. I'm afraid I would have to say, "Sure sweetie... we'll get you a caddy... just as soon as we pay off the loan on Brad's $80,000 Mercedes Roadster

Well Clay... with all the estrogen that courses through the veins of the 'lovely gender'.... they just can't HELP THEMSELVES, can they?

Brad I had never considered it either. Given the subject of this thread I started wondering. I got the feeling from her that even though she did not ask me for money, I should have been helping her out. I was supposed to be reading her mind and know she needed help even though she said she did not. ( are you confused because I am)

Fortunately my 97 F 150 is paid for.

Ya don't even remotely make a promise jokingly that you don't intend to keep

Posted by: BradIL

Yeah Clay... financial issues are a thicket of thorns when you get a relationship. I understand exactly the stress created by the "you should know" attitude some women can display.

Khashyar and others have mentioned that family members in the FSU have to be discreet when they tell their friends of the economic benefits of having 'new family' that live in the West...

... but yours is the first to post to indicate western BF's can be a status symbol for women in the FSU. That's what I chalk up all this talk between your lady-friend and her friends to being with all this 'why aren't you living a more expensive lifestyle if you have an American BF' talk.

Its an eye-opener, for certain!

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade

regarding Seida: I think it's the natural language speaking part she likes.....and I'd guess that is at least partly because she doesn't have to think at all when she's doing that, as opposed to when she's speaking English.

Excellent comment!

Ade, what- with the little Russian I can speak (the awkward, child-like sentences I construct), I am surprised just how much energy it takes to organize your thoughts in your native language, match them into the words of a foreign language, and try to develop a sentence that will flow to the foreign ear. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise, but to actually try to accomplish it... well... its an epiphany!