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Cost of living in Russia.
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Posted by: vanir

Say I've got US$10,000 and I want to go to Russia. Can I live like a king for the next ten years or what?

I'm sure this kind of question has been posted somewhere here before but I had a quick browse and didn't find much.
In real terms what is the cost of living in Russia for a guy like me. Jumps up from Australia and leaps on board a plane, writes rap songs in Moscow airport and can handle himself if it comes down to it, but generally keeps low key and says g'day when it's appropriate.

I'd want to buy a car first up. I'll need an apartment. How much am I up for? Let's say...in Moscow? How about Yoshkar-ola? Or what about...Kiev? Or Sevastopol?

Say I need to buy a nice jacket, how much?

What about good boots?

How much is a leg of ham? What about some steaks? Do I have to grow my own spices?

Is there work available or do I have to hire myself out as a hitman for the KGB?

How hard is it to make a life in Russia...do they even have immigration over there?

What about say you lived in Finland, would it be super cheap and super nice to take all your holidays in Russia because everything's so cheap and respectful visitors are appreciated?
Do lots of Fins do that?

Which people visit Russia the most as tourists? Is it because of the money?

What is Russia's financial state in a real world sense, in terms of tourism and immigration?

Posted by: Jill

Well, a lot depends on the city. Living in larger cities (such as Moscow, St. Pete, Kiev) is NOT cheap by any stretch of the imagination and I would say comparable to living in a large US city (don't know about Australia, though

). I moved from DC directly to Kiev, so those are the two cities easiest for me to compare to one another. DC was more expensive than Kiev, but not by all that much. OK....

Say I've got US$10,000 and I want to go to Russia. Can I live like a king for the next ten years or what?

No. Unless you live in a very small village. I spent about that in a year in Kiev (and more in Yerevan). Moscow will be even more expensive. Yes, you can live pretty cheaply if you live in a dumpy apartment in an unsafe neighborhood and live on macaronni--but would you want to?

I'm sure this kind of question has been posted somewhere here before but I had a quick browse and didn't find much.
In real terms what is the cost of living in Russia for a guy like me. Jumps up from Australia and leaps on board a plane, writes rap songs in Moscow airport and can handle himself if it comes down to it, but generally keeps low key and says g'day when it's appropriate.

How much money do you have? Or how do plan on earning money? And, again, what city are planning to go to? What kindof apartment are looking for? Do you want to live in the center of town, or is further away OK? Do you need to buy furninture, appliances, clothes? What are your eating habits (do you cook for yourself or do you eat out)? What are your entertainment preferences?

I'd want to buy a car first up. I'll need an apartment. How much am I up for? Let's say...in Moscow? How about Yoshkar-ola? Or what about...Kiev? Or Sevastopol?

I am most familiar with Kiev, so I will write about that city. Do you want to buy an apartment or rent one? In the center, or is further away alright? How many rooms? In what condition (do you mind doing a lot of repairs?). If you are renting an average apartment in the center of Kiev, plan about $1000/month (plus utilities). There are cheaper ones, but usually old, small , and falling apart. There are also much cheaper places on the left bank and in some farther areas. Moscow will be more expensive and Yoshkar Ola will be less expensive.

Well, the same with a car. What kind of car? New or used? A used Volga is in a much different price range than a new BMW.

Say I need to buy a nice jacket, how much?

Maybe $200 or so (that's what my last coat cost)

What about good boots?

The last boots I bought in Kiev were about $150.

How much is a leg of ham? What about some steaks? Do I have to grow my own spices?

Don't know as I don't eat meat. You can purchase spices at any market (or grocery store) in most cities.

Is there work available or do I have to hire myself out as a hitman for the KGB?

There is very little work for expats these days even in Moscow and Kiev. You could try to find an Australian company with a branch office, or get certified to teach English. If you know Russian well, you might be able to get some work as a freelance translator. If you have the money, you could consider opening a small business (such as a restaurant--there are some very successful expat bars and restaurants in Kiev, for example).

How hard is it to make a life in Russia...do they even have immigration over there?

If you speak the language and have a decent job, Russia can be a very nice place to leave. I lived in Russia for several years myself (before moving to DC, then Ukraine).

What about say you lived in Finland, would it be super cheap and super nice to take all your holidays in Russia because everything's so cheap and respectful visitors are appreciated?
Do lots of Fins do that?

Don't know. I saw a lot of Fins when I went to Estonia, though. Evidently they take the ferry over there for the cheap booze

Which people visit Russia the most as tourists? Is it because of the money?

Because of the money? Don't know. I would say it's pretty expensive for an American to travel to Russia, especially as a tourist going to tourist cities and doing tourist things. Probably cheaper for a European. Most of the foreignors I've seen in Russia, though, were not tourists, but students studying there for a semester or a year.

What is Russia's financial state in a real world sense, in terms of tourism and immigration?

I don't know how much money is generated from tourism, but most cities still have very poor infrastructure for tourism and are not, in general, very tourist friendly. And immigration is mostly from other areas of the FSU (also some from Africa, Asia, etc). Not much immigration from the US or Europe.

Posted by: mistermopar

Hi Jill,

Quote:

I am most familiar with Kiev, so I will write about that city. Do you want to buy an apartment or rent one? In the center, or is further away alright? How many rooms? In what condition (do you mind doing a lot of repairs?). If you are renting an average apartment in the center of Kiev, plan about $1000/month (plus utilities). There are cheaper ones, but usually old, small , and falling apart.

You say $1000.,is that US?And if it is,how do people afford this,I thought people did not make a lot of money in the FSU.
Even the coat and boots sound expencive to me,I don't even pay that in Canada.

Randy

Posted by: That1Guy

Vanir,

I was surprised to find that the costs for consumer items in Novosibirsk was not far off what I would pay in California for similar items. For example, a Minolta 3mp digital camera was about $300 (US). Like you, I expected to find things much cheaper than I found them to be. I am sure locals have the inside track on stretching their Rubles because of the low wages, but I was only there for two weeks and spent about $3,000 (not including air fare). Maybe $1,000 of this was for gifts, and to be fair, I did have a couple of $150 bottles of wine

with a couple of expensive meals, so it can be MUCH cheaper. Still, I remember talking about this with my friends when I returned, and my impression was that it was more expensive to live there than I had anticipated.

guy

Posted by: Texas Proud

I agree with Guy on the cost of things....

The way these people live for a lot less than we do is they have a lot less than we do.... I saw the electronics at about the same cost as us.. When in Kiev I asked the lady how to use the combo washer dryer and she stared at me. It was not until a week later that I found out she hand washes all her clothes so she did not know how to use it!!!

I asked the lady I am currently writing about bowling (I enjoy this and am a good player...) she said 'that is a game for the rich!!'... She can not afford to waste money on bowling as the price is too much for her.

Just my opinion...

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

You say $1000.,is that US?And if it is,how do people afford this,I thought people did not make a lot of money in the FSU.

Many people can't afford that. That's why a lot of young people (say, 30, 35 and under) live with their parents. Or they live in cheaper places outside the center of the city (which you can find for a few hundred dollars a month), or they take a loan and buy an apartment (this is not yet common, but definitely starting to become common). Or they inherit something (if their relatives privatised in time).

And actually, salaries in private and foreign companies in Moscow/Kiev are fairly high. There is really quite a bit of money passing hands there.

Quote:

Still, I remember talking about this with my friends when I returned, and my impression was that it was more expensive to live there than I had anticipated.

Yes, that is my point. Living in a large Russian city is not as cheap as people think. Moscow is one of the most expensive cities in the world (on par with Tokyo and Paris). Kiev and St. Pete ahave also been rated much higher (meaning more expensive) than many other world cities.

If you live in a small town in Russia/Ukraine, then, yes, it is quite inexpensive. But then how do find work? There are very opportunities outside of the big cities.

Quote:

I saw the electronics at about the same cost as us..

Actually, I would say that on average, electronics are less expensive in the US. And clothes are often less expensive. And I have heard this opinion expressed by Russians who have visited the US as well--they usually do quite a bit of shopping in the States where they can get higher quality for fewer $$$

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

I asked the lady I am currently writing about bowling (I enjoy this and am a good player...) she said 'that is a game for the rich!!'... She can not afford to waste money on bowling as the price is too much for her.

She's right. Bowling is a sort of yuppie pasttime in Russia. Go figure

Posted by: jpierce55

My stay in Moscow indicates you can burn $10,000 in a month there if not catious. Kiev I found cheap I think I could pull off a year with $10,000 there.

Posted by: tanya3475

Russia has become extremely expensive everywhere, but Moscow is one of the most expensive cities in the world, so i completely agree that you can easily burn 10,000$ in a month there (maybe two)

Posted by: wavetossed

These are pretty dumb questions and some dumb answers as well.

You cannot figure out the cost of living unless you have a specific city in mind and a specific lifestyle. And before you even start you have to understand the pace and structure of life in the city you have chosen. This is virtually impossible unless you visit the city for a few weeks.

And some crazy ideas too. Buy a car first thing!?!?!? What on earth for? Where would you go with this car that you can't get to cheaper on a bus or a marshrutka? And if you want to go out into the countryside for a picnic or something, then hire a taxi. But if you absolutely must have a car, I would hope that you all have enough life experience to know that you get the best quality/price tradeoff when you have the free time available to shop around and compare what is available on the nearly-new market.

Same thing with apartments. Don't most people buy real-estate buy visiting many possible homes, narrowing down their requirements list, and then visiting a few more? How you gonna do that if you aren't in the city?

As was pointed out, capital cities like Moscow and Kiev are expensive to live in. But Russia and Ukraine have lots of other small cities that are interesting and much, much cheaper to live in. Especially if you live in a dacha on the outskirts of the city. Try Krivoy Rog in Ukraine, a long narrow city which means you are never far from the countryside. The center of the city is like a park with buildings in it. Or try Ekaterinburg in Russia. Not far from the mountains for winter skiing. Near forests and lakes for summer fun. International airport.

Make some friends in Russia, go on homestay visits, join a missionary group, or take a tour with some university students on a budget so that you don't waste money. But do go there and learn what the place is like before you start calculating the cost of living for YOUR lifestyle in YOUR choice of city.

Posted by: etcetera

If you want to maintain a western lifestyle, you'll spend as much as "here". (Car, AC, supermarket food)

However, you can live cheaply over there but it means going without many things you are used to.

Posted by: J60

I was in both Khmelnitsky and Chernivtsy in western Ukraine in january and did some quick price comparisons to british prices,

meat was between a half to two thirds what i pay here in england, root vegitables and green stuff about a quarter to a half and by that time of the year all wrinkled, all from a cold celler not a huge controlled wharehouse so they don't age, carrots try leaving them out on the table for a week that is what they looked like and about half the price i pay all year round for fresh carrots, bananas about the same price as the uk, she treats herself to 4oz's of cheese when she gets her wage each month and buys her daughter a banana this is their treat for themselves,

suger was dearer and not as refined, bread about a quarter the price for the cheapest, a hard brown loaf and an even harder grey loaf, yes it was the same colour as a battle ship, you can get much better than this but most people over there have to buy the cheap stuff, although because i gave my wife plenty of money she bought better quality food stuff,

tinned items are similer to the uk in price biscuits are slightly less,

cloths dearer even thou it is mostly the cheap imports from china or pakistan,
we get them from the same place but have a much bigger market and demand better quality from the firms that make them in those countries,

electrical goods are about the same as recomended prices in the uk but in the uk we have sales all the year round and a lot more competition so prices are cheaper by about a third,
As my wife remarked, I pay european prices but only get Ukrainian wages, she only eats meat when she is at her parents who have a small holding in a village outside Chernivtsy, pork or chicken she has never had lamb in her life and only had beef two or three times,
Motor vehicles, sorry i can't tell you the price other than the joke they have,
Stolen in Germany sold in Ukraine,
i hope this gives you an idea of prices and that is in a place's that are a lot cheaper than Kiev or Moscow

John

Posted by: mistermopar

Thanks John,
I also noticed that the sugar was not as refined as it is in Canada,it almost had a brownish hue to it in Moscow.

Quote:

she only eats meat when she is at her parents who have a small holding in a village outside Chernivtsy, pork or chicken she has never had lamb in her life and only had beef two or three times,

I have never had lamb either,and I lived across the road from a large sheep farmer for many years.My parents have a beef farm,so I never worried about the sheep

bbaaaaaa

Randy

Posted by: novotul

Novosibirsk isn't inexpensive.

My apartment in Novosibirsk is priced similarly to the apartment I live in in the southern USA. And there I have the privilege of having no hot water for 3 weeks in the spring and the fall, and the weather often turns cold before the authorities get around to turning on the central heat.

At similar quality, clothing for both men and women is a lot more expensive in Novosibirsk than in the States. Last time I was there, my luggage was delayed and I arrived with the clothes on my back and had to buy some clothes, so I could go to work. I spent double, just about exactly, what I would have spent here in the States. I look for clothing there for my fiance -- and I find it is better to buy here and bring it to her. (Fortunately, she likes -- or claims she likes -- my taste.) I bought winter boots for her last year for about 4000 roubles -- $140 more or less. I had to buy shoes for me during my last trip for 3200 roubles -- and similar shoes would have cost about $60 here.

I have no idea about the relative cost of cars. Only two of my acquaintances there have a car -- and I didn't ask how expensive they are. (They both have a Ford Focus -- which apparently is getting quite popular among upper-middle managers there.) I walk everywhere in Akademgorodok, and take a van when I go into the city.

Electronics are cheaper in the USA. I've priced out digital cameras, portable CD players, and various computer peripherals. Rather than buy in Russia, in bring them in when I give them as gifts.

Restaurants can be less expensive but, for a good experience, can be quite expensive. It is easy to say goodbye to 3000 roubles for a good dinner for four, or even two when in the States I might spend $30-60.

Gasoline prices in Novosibirsk are similar to what I pay here.

Food prices are somewhat lower, especially in summer when produce is abundant. The sugar I buy there is identical in quality to what I buy here. Good-quality rice is more expensive there, but one can get quite adequate, inexpensive rice. I do not eat meat, so I can't comment on that. Vodka can be cheap -- big surprise -- but decent wine is quite a bit more expensive in the States and it is often counterfitted. And even the better vodka's are not so cheap.

Medical care is difficult to compare -- we have insurance here but there, for all practical purposes, medical insurance does not exist. So you pay for your services which appear to be inferior to what I expect here. I've seen my fiance or her family go through a fair bit of dental work, cataract surgery, a hospitalization for a heart condition, and treatment for some female conditions over the past three years. I have not been favorably impressed, and sometimes I'm appalled, at the medical care there. (And, yes, sometimes I'm appalled by medical care my mom gets here in the States, too.) I have not been ill there, although both my son (who I was able to take there for a couple weeks last year) and I have been bitten by ticks and gone through the gamma globulin treatment that is routine there -- and then advised by physicians here to get a series of HIV tests because the gamma globulin may not be safe. For those who don't know, tick-borne encephalitis in Siberia is not rare and 25% fatal, so people take tick bites very seriously. If one takes ill, there is no effective treatment other than supportive care, but prophylactic gamma globulin treatments taken from pools of donors that included previously infected individuals is thought to decrease the chances of taking ill. Be careful if you are in the woods there in May or September. (But we got our ticks in town and, fortunately, we both remain HIV negative.) I really look forward to getting my fiance over here, so that she can begin to enjoy and expect decent medical care.

I paint a poor picture -- which is not my intend. One can live comfortably in Russia on not much money. My fiance does it. I do it when I'm there. I live differently than here. The pace of my life there is simpler, more routine, slower, and in many ways more humane. And there are big costs and disadvantages there, too. You take the good with the bad. I like -- I treasure -- my opportunities to be in Russia. And once my fiance gets used to the idea of life as a Russian-American, I am confident that we will continue to enjoy visiting there. Could I enjoy living there? Maybe, but only because of her. I have no idea how I would make a living there -- and there's the hitch.

So, don't think you can go there and live an opulent lifestyle (unless you can afford an opulent lifestyle in the west, too). Don't think that your Western status somehow gives an edge in the labor market. As far as I can tell, it doesn't. My experience, though, is that it can be great place to visit and, if I could solve the livelihood question, I can imagine living there if my fiance finds she cannot adjust to American life. It would be a very different kind of life, though, for a westerner to live in Russia.

I wish Jill would write more about her experiences.

Posted by: J60

Hi Mopar,

yes the colour of sugar is noticable,
I'd read somwhere that sugar in the UK and presumably most of the west is refined at least 7 times to remove the last of the molasses or impurities

probably to keep the cost down refineries in the fsu or whoever supplies the market there doesn't refine this number of times, so your left with a small amount of mollases not enough to taste but enough to give it the dark colour a brown hue with cane and a grey hue with beet sugar,

Not eating lamb was your choice

, Natalyas was she could'nt afford it,

I must admit i don't eat a lot of beef, according to my butcher in your neck of the woods (canada and the states) they can still use tenderisers injected in to calves as they grow? over here due to EU regulations it's been banned consequently most of the beef i get for roasting would be better used to sole shoes, even the tender stuff makes good excercise for the jaws,

John

Posted by: Jutman

Hi

I have from 6 trips and accumated 12 weeks in Russia this to say:

Most western things are more expensive than in EU and assume same in USA. And its a limited part of the population who buys, at top its 20% but more realistic its 10%.
Secondly there is difference between where in Russia you are, Moscow as metropol and international city has a lot more service sector, R&D and HQ so its considered 35% of population = 4.5 mill. who has an income like the minimum in EU-15 or higher. The number I say before would go for regional center and maybe a little more when its one of the other 10 million cities beside Moscow and Sct.Pete.
This number will decrease as the the size of the city does and when you end at teh countryside in villages, there very few or none with a income at EU-15 level.

So how does they manage, is your question based in Jill number. Well, without knowing it, she has proberly purchased them in modern shops and western brands. The local who don't have a lot of money go to a market and buy local brands, unknown brands for us, copy products and so on.
Secondly its a issue, how often we buy a jacket and how long time we keep it in use. Let say 4 years, a lot of russian will keep in use for 8-10 years. Furs a lot longer and is even passed on in the family.

So its a consumer society versus a buy-4-need.

Posted by: B82

A family friend of ours recently came back from Russia and she said that it is getting VERY expensive there. She said the service there is great and it is a reflection of how Russia is improving economically. And she is a wealthy woman so it means something if she says Russia is getting expensive. So you probably wouldn't be able to live like a king unless you went to some poor village. Also, American currency is loosing it's value overseas. I was told that an American dollar is half of a Euro. So, an American dollar is 50 cents, per se, or a Euro.

Posted by: wavetossed

Quote:

Originally Posted by B82

... so it means something if she says Russia is getting expensive. So you probably wouldn't be able to live like a king unless you went to some poor village.

Are you sure that Russia only has one big wealthy city and many poor villages? Nothing in between?

Let's face it, if you want to live in New York and London, you better have a good income. But there are dozens of other towns and cities in the USA and Britain where you can live very well even if your salary is not high. Russia is the same.

You can live more like a king, the further you go from the center of Moscow. If you want to live in a city, think of Ekaterinburg, Volgograd or Nizhniy-Novgorod. If you want a smaller town, look at Rostov-na-Donu or Tver or Vladivostok or Ufa. Or perhaps, look for a place near Moscow but not too near. Podmoskovye is a rather large and sprawling region with big and small towns and an intricate network of rail connections to the capital.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B82

I was told that an American dollar is half of a Euro. So, an American dollar is 50 cents, per se, or a Euro.

Uhh.... "I was told..." !?!?!?!?
How Russian of you to rely on what you heard somewhere from some unspecified person rather than getting the facts. If you look at a site like http://www.xe.com/ you will see that the current rate is closer to .82 Euro or 82 Euro cents. There is no need for guessing here. If you want historical data you can go to http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/plot.html and plot the US Dollar against the Ruble.

Fact is that a foreign currency income will allow you to live well in Russia. People who are able to put their money into rental property in the USA with a competent property manager, will live like kings in Russia. Of course, if you are going to really LIVE there, you should be prepared to earn a local income as well, i.e. business with the wife, or do teaching English.

Posted by: etcetera

Disregarding wage differences:

Food is maybe 30-50% less expensive than here. (If you shop around)

Cars -- foreign cars are much more expensive. Domestic cars are very affordable.

Electronics - DVDs, laptops, digital cameras, LED flashlights, etc. are always more expensive than here, usually by anywhere between 30-50%. D sized batteries like Energizer cost about $2 each over there, compared to $1 or less in US in major discount stores such as Target, etc. I think there is a domestic battery that's cheaper, but don't know about quality.

Real estate, even given the recent boom over there, is still far cheaper. I think you can buy an apartment in the center of Moscow between $200-300K. (Try that in NYC or Chicago) I also think you can buy some land near Moscow for a reasonable rate, not like in US. No specific figure in mind really, but I would think with $50-100K, you can buy a nice place within commuting distance. Try that in US, where you cannot touch anything under $400K in major metro areas (NYC, NJ, Wash. D.C., Chicago, Seattle)

Also you can rent an apartment for between $400-700, depending on the area. The lower prices will put you on the outskirts of Moscow in not so desirable neighborhoods.

Of course, you have to shop around to get some good prices. If you go right into the center of the city minutes from the Red Square, expect to pay some pretty high Western prices for rentals, motels, etc.

Common consumer items such as clothing, books, furniture, cost about the same, maybe slighly less.

Anyway, real estate is the biggest difference IMO. They are also experiencing a real estate boom but it's of a lesser magnitude than here. Here, it's out in the stratosphere and doubled in the last few years.

Now these are from the perspective of a westerner moving there. If you figure in local wages, the things change. My fiancee makes $400-500/month for example.

Posted by: Cheburashka

WOW! Do I feel good about living in Dallas. There isn't anything I can buy here that is not more expensive in Moscow. And 200K will have you living like a king here in Dallas. Food is cheaper, everything is cheaper. I even get frozen pelmini cheaper in a Russian market here than I paid in Moscow.

But there are new Chinese made computers coming into the Russian market that are definitely driving down the cost of computers over there.

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by etcetera

Disregarding wage differences:

Food is maybe 30-50% less expensive than here. (If you shop around)

Cars -- foreign cars are much more expensive. Domestic cars are very affordable.

Electronics - DVDs, laptops, digital cameras, LED flashlights, etc. are always more expensive than here, usually by anywhere between 30-50%. D sized batteries like Energizer cost about $2 each over there, compared to $1 or less in US in major discount stores such as Target, etc. I think there is a domestic battery that's cheaper, but don't know about quality.

Real estate, even given the recent boom over there, is still far cheaper. I think you can buy an apartment in the center of Moscow between $200-300K. (Try that in NYC or Chicago) I also think you can buy some land near Moscow for a reasonable rate, not like in US. No specific figure in mind really, but I would think with $50-100K, you can buy a nice place within commuting distance. Try that in US, where you cannot touch anything under $400K in major metro areas (NYC, NJ, Wash. D.C., Chicago, Seattle)

Also you can rent an apartment for between $400-700, depending on the area. The lower prices will put you on the outskirts of Moscow in not so desirable neighborhoods.

Of course, you have to shop around to get some good prices. If you go right into the center of the city minutes from the Red Square, expect to pay some pretty high Western prices for rentals, motels, etc.

Common consumer items such as clothing, books, furniture, cost about the same, maybe slighly less.

Anyway, real estate is the biggest difference IMO. They are also experiencing a real estate boom but it's of a lesser magnitude than here. Here, it's out in the stratosphere and doubled in the last few years.

Now these are from the perspective of a westerner moving there. If you figure in local wages, the things change. My fiancee makes $400-500/month for example.

Hey Ect, yes for one of the old soviet style Appts you will pay even less than $200K US...but remember they are only 30-40 M2. The New Western stlye high rise Appts/condos are as Much as $26,000 PSM making it some of the most expensive real estate in the world. I found food, drink and many things cheaper, and many household whitegoods similar in price.

Posted by: Ade

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanir

Say I've got US$10,000 and I want to go to Russia. Can I live like a king for the next ten years or what?

I'm sure this kind of question has been posted somewhere here before but I had a quick browse and didn't find much.
In real terms what is the cost of living in Russia for a guy like me. Jumps up from Australia and leaps on board a plane, writes rap songs in Moscow airport and can handle himself if it comes down to it, but generally keeps low key and says g'day when it's appropriate.

I'd want to buy a car first up. I'll need an apartment. How much am I up for? Let's say...in Moscow? How about Yoshkar-ola? Or what about...Kiev? Or Sevastopol?

Say I need to buy a nice jacket, how much?

What about good boots?

How much is a leg of ham? What about some steaks? Do I have to grow my own spices?

Is there work available or do I have to hire myself out as a hitman for the KGB?

How hard is it to make a life in Russia...do they even have immigration over there?

What about say you lived in Finland, would it be super cheap and super nice to take all your holidays in Russia because everything's so cheap and respectful visitors are appreciated?
Do lots of Fins do that?

Which people visit Russia the most as tourists? Is it because of the money?

What is Russia's financial state in a real world sense, in terms of tourism and immigration?

Hi,

I've not read all the answers to your post, but the blunt reply is no, you can't live like a king in Russia for ten years on $10k. And forget the nonsense about handling yourself...Russian gangsters, when you encounter them, aren't interested....**** 'em off and they will just shoot, and then size etc. doesn't matter.

Ade

Posted by: GreenBarb

I lived in Dimitrovgrad, East of Moscow. For 3 months Oct 2005 - Jan 2006. In that time I spent �6,000. Prices for a one room flat was 130,000 Rubles to buy it has since gone up to 200,000. It is like everywhere else,somethings are cheap an others are not. However most Russians are not so loose with what money they make. Hence the reason for visiting friends and cooking Shashleak in the forests during the summer. Rather then going to restaurants and paying for lavish meals.

Posted by: bingism

OK,,,, the latest prices from Ufa: (in dollars)

Bread 0.40 - 1.00
Milk 0.80 - 1.60
2kg Beef 10.00+
1kg Potatoes 0.45
Mid Range Boots 140.00+
Mid Range Winter coat 200.00+
Levis 100.00+
Cigarettes 0.40 - 2.00
0.5l Beer (off licence) 0.50 - 1.00
0.5l Beer (bar) 2.00 - 4.00
Coffee (bar) 2.00+
Anti-flu drugs (anti Grippeen) $10.00
1-room apartment (bedsit) 240.00+ per month
2-room apartment (one bedroom) 320.00+ per month
Brand new Lada - 7000.00+
State Pension $80 per month
State Child Allowance $60 per month
Average Wage $200+ per month
Middle Class wage (30-year old man) $800+

Tell me that it's easy to live here on a little money and I'll argue till I'm blue in the face. It's not about making money go further, it's about doing and buying less!!!

Posted by: mistermopar

Well done Bing.
Of course this is for Ufa,and as in any country the prices change from city to city.
I had saved some of my grocery and other recipes from my trip to Volgograd,
just have to find them.

Hope all is going good for you in Ufa Bing.How is the single lady situation there?

Randy

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

Well done Bing.
Of course this is for Ufa,and as in any country the prices change from city to city.
I had saved some of my grocery and other recipes from my trip to Volgograd,
just have to find them.

Hope all is going good for you in Ufa Bing.How is the single lady situation there?

Randy

Yes, Ufa is one of te most expensive cities in Russia... in fact, it has the 2nd highest real estate prices in the country!! There's a lot of oil money here, but it's restricted to a few and in most cases the Bashkiri families keep it amongst themselves...

The single woman situation here is pretty amazing. Apparently there was phenol in the water for a long time and one of the effects of phenols on the human body is that it somehow makes the 'Y' chomosone less potent - go figure!! You've also got a really cool miture of different looks - from Tartarian to pure Aryan-esque Russian... could be worse hehe For me though, I'm now properly off the market - Zhanna and I are getting married next year

Posted by: Pin Boy

MARRIED??!! that's great bing! congrats! i'm sure you'll keep us posted.

pb

Posted by: ira156

Hey Congradts Bing. Good to hear Mate all the best

Posted by: Northernlight

Congratulations Bing on your up and coming wedding. Thank You my friend, for a part of the cost of living there.

Take Care,
Kirk

Posted by: mistermopar

A big Congratulations Bing.
That sure did not take you long.
But when its right,why wait....LOL

Randy

Posted by: nocomfortzone

great news Bing!
fun times ahead

Posted by: Ade

Hey,

That's great news Bing!!! hurrah for you

Congrats mate,

Ade

Posted by: Volga Trader

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

OK,,,, the latest prices from Ufa: (in dollars)

Bread 0.40 - 1.00
Milk 0.80 - 1.60
2kg Beef 10.00+
1kg Potatoes 0.45
Mid Range Boots 140.00+
Mid Range Winter coat 200.00+
Levis 100.00+
Cigarettes 0.40 - 2.00
0.5l Beer (off licence) 0.50 - 1.00
0.5l Beer (bar) 2.00 - 4.00
Coffee (bar) 2.00+
Anti-flu drugs (anti Grippeen) $10.00
1-room apartment (bedsit) 240.00+ per month
2-room apartment (one bedroom) 320.00+ per month
Brand new Lada - 7000.00+
State Pension $80 per month
State Child Allowance $60 per month
Average Wage $200+ per month
Middle Class wage (30-year old man) $800+

Tell me that it's easy to live here on a little money and I'll argue till I'm blue in the face. It's not about making money go further, it's about doing and buying less!!!

I think this is the relationship of wages to goods we had in the early 1970's in the UK. Well done Bing.

Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volga Trader

I think this is the relationship of wages to goods we had in the early 1970's in the UK. Well done Bing.

I have to admit i completely lost on this even though i want to understand the cost of lving differences.
I'm in australia and not real sure what he is talking about with those prices and currency is far from clear and don't know what the uits are where no dollar sign existed.

Amercian dollars, Euro dollars, Russian dollars, English dollars.??????
Sorry guys it is just not clear. Remember this is a global community so when talking prices you need to establish how someone from any country reading can convert into their own currency to get a true idea.

Posted by: mistermopar

nocomfortzone,I would assume that he is talking about USD (United States Dollars),but hey,I could be wrong.

Cigarettes 0.40 - 2.00,This would be $0.40 USD to $2.00 USD for one pack of cigarettes.

Really hope I'm right on this.

Randy

Posted by: ira156

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

nocomfortzone,I would assume that he is talking about USD (United States Dollars),but hey,I could be wrong.

Cigarettes 0.40 - 2.00,This would be $0.40 USD to $2.00 USD for one pack of cigarettes.

Really hope I'm right on this.

Randy

That sounds about right to me Randy. I would love to know Bing have you become less wasteful since you have been there???

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

A big Congratulations Bing.
That sure did not take you long.
But when its right,why wait....LOL

Randy

Too right Randy - I've let good people slip through my fingers once too often, got burnt and ended up trying to repair life with the wrong kind! I'm certainly not planning on letting Zhanna get away

Of course we've had our tiffs - we've both got fairly difficult characters - but there's something about her that makes me feel "at home", if you know what I mean...

Thanks to everyone that's passed on their congratulations and I promise to set aside some time to post the full SP on life here in Ufa (and Zhanna and me)...

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

nocomfortzone,I would assume that he is talking about USD (United States Dollars),but hey,I could be wrong.

Cigarettes 0.40 - 2.00,This would be $0.40 USD to $2.00 USD for one pack of cigarettes.

Ira,

Yes it's US Dollars (I was a bit tired when I posted it). Currently 26/27 Roubles to a Dollar.

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira156

That sounds about right to me Randy. I would love to know Bing have you become less wasteful since you have been there???

Put it this way, between us, Zhanna and I earn 24,000 (US$900) a month, plus the school pays for the flat and utilities (7000r / US$260) and it's still going to be tough to get through a month with much left at the end.

Where I am less wasteful is on the food front. Gone are the days of eating 75% of something and throwing the rest away - even bones are reused in a stock of some kind. Also, we're going to the market once every two weeks and spending a good thousand roubles on huge chunks of meat that then get sectioned and frozen. Plus we buy potatoes and carrots in bulk. Zhanna has only just started earning again after having to spend a couple of months without wages so this has definitely focussed the mind a little. The biggest problem is how to buy decent winter clothes, have a few nights out to avoid boredom and deal with my birthday, Christmas and New Year which all hit in December. Should be easier come January

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volga Trader

I think this is the relationship of wages to goods we had in the early 1970's in the UK.

Interesting analogy... a bit before my time (I was born in '75), but sounds about right from what I know. Everyone here has "less" things and they (now we) take care of them. Before I came here, my wardrobe was stuffed with half a dozen mid-high end suits, 15-20 work shirts, 30 ties, 10 pairs of shoes and a similar amount of casual clothes. I had a new car every year, expensive wine when I wanted and nights out whenever I felt like it (I also had the credit card bills to show for it). After living here for just over 4-months, I feel like a bit of a plonker about the way I used to live.... instant, short-lived, self-gratification that gets you nowhere!! I used to throw out more food and "old" clothes than I even care to think about

Posted by: ira156

Yep i thought so Bing. It makes you realise just how wasteful we are in the west...and hell im guilty of it. I tried to explain to Nat that if you have a 12 month old TV and it breaks down its cheaper to just throw it out and buy a new one....a shame really. Cheers Mate

Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

After living here for just over 4-months, I feel like a bit of a plonker about the way I used to live.... instant, short-lived, self-gratification that gets you nowhere!! I used to throw out more food and "old" clothes than I even care to think about

This may be one of the greatest statements posted on this board to date. I am going through a serious soul searching phase right now. I live in the lap of luxury in a posh North Dallas high rise, drive an expensive convertable, and have more crap than I could ever use. But I am seriously thinking about getting rid of it all, getting my TEFL, and heading to live a year or two over there. It is amazing how our priorities change once our geography changes.

Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Go for it Cheburashka.
I have my TESOL,and I also want to move to some city in the FSU.
Money and everything I have just dose not bring happiness,.....well,maybe if I had enough to do what ever I wanted,but that will never happen.

Maybe it is something you should think about doing.

Randy

Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheburashka

Well... I guess I'll be the Devil's advocate here! Your situation is different than Bingam's! He lost it all before he settled into his new lifestyle. You need to do the same 1st! I'll send you the email for my paypal account if you decide you need to be on the same ground!!!!

Posted by: Jerico

Well I have to admit I was thinking of possibly moving over to Russia in the near future also.
Sell everything and just start all over.
One thing though , its fricken cold over there

I dont know if I could deal with it . It gets cold in Sacramento and rainy too but Moscow, St. Petersburg? Even if its expensive I think I have enough money to live ok over there.
In Volgograd i could live well I think :-)

Possibly Kirgizstan as my mother in law owns about 10 apartments which she rents out to foreigners. I would just pay her something and live good in Bishkek I imagine.

Of course lately now that its cold I think about moving to the tropics and taking tourist out on a boat or something.
Nice and warm, could work maybe .

Hehehe , I dont know what I want.

I am pretty skilled at many trades so a job wouldn`t be to hard I think to find a job over there (other than i dont speak Russian) but i just hate working for someone when i can make more for myself.

It all sounds good to me but reality is that i still have much I wish to do and see in this world and now I have the opportunity to make much more money to support these trips and stuff. Hopefully things work out.

If any of you guys take the plunge? Good luck.
Jerry

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

have a few nights out to avoid boredom and deal with my birthday, Christmas and New Year which all hit in December. Should be easier come January

Hmmmmmm what could two consenting adults do at home on a cold winter's night to avoid boredom? Hmmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: deccie

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

For me though, I'm now properly off the market - Zhanna and I are getting married next year

How the heck did I miss this.. Late, but Congrats Bing!

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

No no.... send it to me

with my newly grounded lifestyle I'll be very responsible with lol

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by deccie

How the heck did I miss this.. Late, but Congrats Bing!

he he... jsut thought I'd drop it in and see what happens...

at least some people read what I write lol

Thanks Dec

Posted by: bingism

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

Hmmmmmm what could two consenting adults do at home on a cold winter's night to avoid boredom? Hmmmmmmmmmm

LMAO.....

In Russia we hibernate

Posted by: mistermopar

What is the cost of living in Siberia??
Anyone???

Randy

Posted by: ElenaK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jutman

Hi
Secondly its a issue, how often we buy a jacket and how long time we keep it in use. Let say 4 years, a lot of russian will keep in use for 8-10 years. Furs a lot longer and is even passed on in the family.

It sounds so funny! I never wore my jackets more then two seasons. They just simply were not in fashion any more. I noticed that many people in the USA do not care how they look like at all. You prefer simplicity and comfort in your clothes.
Talking seriously��
I am from small Russian city Penza where population is about 650000 only. I worked for a small company as a sales representative. My income was average for this city, about 500 USA$ per month. I lived in my dad's (two rooms) flat (apartment) which he was an owner. So we paid only utilities and property tax bills. It was about 100$ monthly. I honestly do not know exact price range for the rent, I think it is from 100-200$ and higher for the one room flat and from 200-300$ and higher for the two rooms. My dad�s flat (it is over 30 years old and very small) is estimated in real estate market 27000$.
Approximately:
Bread � 0.60$ for the cheapest one
Milk � 1.5$/gallon
Pork chops � 3.5$/pound
Potatoes � 2$/5 pound bag
Decent boots 80-100$
Marlboro � 1.5$
Alcohol beverages are about the same price range like here.
Jacket �.. If it is something very simple � 20-30$; a good quality winter jacket - starts from 200$ and up.
Electronics always more expensive there than here, except software (you can find it at black market much cheaper).
Medical care is less expensive but more often less quality as well. Though, I would choose a Russian dentist. Most of the time it is higher quality service for much less money. Usually (not always) people in Russia have health insurance through their jobs (or government) that covered basic health services (like a doctor appointment) and they do not have to pay for that at all.
I could not afford a by a car at that time, I just started to build my career. But it did not bother me at all; public transportation is not the same that here. Foreign cars are much more expensive in Russia then in the US. Domestic cars are more affordable then foreign. Unfortunately I cannot give you a price sample in this category.
It is not easy at all to find a decent job in Penza. I know a lot of well educated people who work at the market as simple sellers. According this aspect I think it will be tough for American to start over in Russia. Unless, you speak prefect Russian and posses well demanded abilities.

I hope I gave you elementary impression of the cost of living in Russia.

Posted by: chippie

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElenaK

It sounds so funny! I never wore my jackets more then two seasons. They just simply were not in fashion any more. I noticed that many people in the USA do not care how they look like at all. You prefer simplicity and comfort in your clothes.
Talking seriously��
I am from small Russian city Penza where population is about 650000 only. I worked for a small company as a sales representative. My income was average for this city, about 500 USA$ per month. I lived in my dad's (two rooms) flat (apartment) which he was an owner. So we paid only utilities and property tax bills. It was about 100$ monthly. I honestly do not know exact price range for the rent, I think it is from 100-200$ and higher for the one room flat and from 200-300$ and higher for the two rooms. My dad�s flat (it is over 30 years old and very small) is estimated in real estate market 27000$.
Approximately:
Bread � 0.60$ for the cheapest one
Milk � 1.5$/gallon
Pork chops � 3.5$/pound
Potatoes � 2$/5 pound bag
Decent boots 80-100$
Marlboro � 1.5$
Alcohol beverages are about the same price range like here.
Jacket �.. If it is something very simple � 20-30$; a good quality winter jacket - starts from 200$ and up.
Electronics always more expensive there than here, except software (you can find it at black market much cheaper).
Medical care is less expensive but more often less quality as well. Though, I would choose a Russian dentist. Most of the time it is higher quality service for much less money. Usually (not always) people in Russia have health insurance through their jobs (or government) that covered basic health services (like a doctor appointment) and they do not have to pay for that at all.
I could not afford a by a car at that time, I just started to build my career. But it did not bother me at all; public transportation is not the same that here. Foreign cars are much more expensive in Russia then in the US. Domestic cars are more affordable then foreign. Unfortunately I cannot give you a price sample in this category.
And it is not easy at all to find a decent job in Penza. I know a lot of well educated people who work at the market as simple sallers. It is not easy at all to find a decent job in Penza. I know a lot of well educated people who work at the market as simple sellers. Unless, you speak prefect Russian and posses well demanded abilities.

I hope I gave you elementary impression of the cost of living in Russia.

Thamks ElenaK for the info. I always enjoy comparing prices. Russia, Bealrus, France, and the US.

Chippie

Posted by: Gator

This looked like it has many post's, so i only read the original question. Maybe this has been addressed. If so sorry, carry on.
I am getting ready to move to my womans country, for an extended stay.
We are going to rent an above average one bedroom flat. This will be $500 a month, American money. It does include utilities.

Food is very cheap, both at resturants and the supermarket.
A McD meal in the states that cost me $6 is around $3 here.
I pay about half for items in the supermarkets as well.
Taxi fare is real cheap. A ride for $4 will get me just about anywhere I want to go. The same ride in America would set ne back about $20.
Public transit, very cheap. pretty much around 10 cents a ride.

Whoops, got to go. I'll get back later.
Gator

Posted by: livinginukraine

i live in Crimea, Ukraine. basics such as rent, house bills and transport is dead cheap, but most other things are the same if not more expensive than britain (food in winter, clothes, household goods, things!) i guess thats what it is... general life and poettering about is a lot cheaper, but if you want to buy material things you will not get a good deal in ukraine.

Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinginukraine

i live in Crimea, Ukraine. basics such as rent, house bills and transport is dead cheap, but most other things are the same if not more expensive than britain (food in winter, clothes, household goods, things!) i guess thats what it is... general life and poettering about is a lot cheaper, but if you want to buy material things you will not get a good deal in ukraine.

My friends live in the same area (Crimea) and they live on about $125.00 a month. They make do but have nothing for extras

Posted by: Russia4Ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanir

well same situation for myself. i have close to 10,000 USD's set up for a trip to russija. but i dont plan on staying in moscow for THAT long, ill be in Ufa or Volograd most likley for my stay in russia. i just want to go to moscow to take in the sights and see my friends.

uhm...the next ten YEARS, nooooooo! 10,000 USD is alot of money, in america but in russija, its not as normal. 10,000 USD= about 259,030.00 RUB if you have over 100,000 rubles thats good but it all depends how you spend it.

i wouldnt count on living anywhere in moscow except in the suburbs with that kinna money, as a previous poster said, 'unless you want to live in a rough neghborhood and eat macarroni for 10 years then go for it!'

im gonna tell u a secret, most russian cars are little pieces of s*** with low shocks, so if u hit a rock or ston in the middle of a road, and its wintertime and the roads are wet and slippery, youll really go for a 'fun ride'.

apts are cheap, rent prices can range anywhere from 80 USD a day to 5-600 dollars for rent, all in US currency. but in rubles the prices are somewhat higher but the ruble lasts longer than USD.

good jackets cost about 150-200 dollars

good boots cost anywhere from 75-150 dollars.

ham, steaks i think are still imported through georgia and europe but there plentiful in the markets.

works ALWAYS available for people in russija especially moscow. youll easilly like in america find a good job in a mcdonalds or something, that was my first real job, worked out good for me in my stay.

life in russija is hard......all depends how you carry y uorself. if you have the appearence of a tourist, (i.e. taking pics of everything, looking at buildings everywhre, etc) itll make you a easy target for muggings. but life in general in russia, in moscow and st. petersburg is somewhat like american life, but its a different world all together. in russija your actually free.

Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russia4Ever

but life in general in russia, in moscow and st. petersburg is somewhat like american life, but its a different world all together. in russija your actually free.

Actually Free....those are two great words.

I was was just talking to my sister and the city we live in has went over board.
Now we are not aloud to let our grass grow longer than 8 inces,don't put your garbage out before 6am,and a string of other crap,I no longer feel free in my own country.

Randy

Posted by: Russia4Ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

well here in florida where iam right now, we can only water our grass twice a week if your address is an odd number or something like that, gas is up to $3.10 a gallon for regular.......sucks.....we dont however have the same problem for garbage, but in time im sure we will. just hopeit isnt like that in moscow.

Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingism

You know, I think about this all of the time. During the past couple of years, the notion of teaching English overseas (Ukraine, or Russia..but Ukraine appeals to me more, perhaps because I've spent a lot of time there) has become a fascination for me.

Yet, I'm plagued by the feeling that somehow this will end up as a big mistake. That somehow I will make a huge miscalculation and find myself in a dire straits financially. It seems quite difficult to determine the income one would earn doing this in any given city. The figures I read are all generalities, and I have the feeling that after attaining certification, I'd be confronted with many unpleasant surprises.

Of course, much of this is simply because I lack accurate figures for this. For instance, I am very fond of Odessa. As I research the question of wages for this city, I find everything from 1,200 a month to 400 a month. On 400 a month it doesn't even seem possible.

It seems that a large number of these positions are filled by college students taking a break before continuing to go for a a Masters. etc. They live with a couple other people, do the job for a year or two, then they're gone.

Another likely scenario (or so it seems form my perusal of the web, whatever that actually is worth), is that a teacher must move from job to job frequently...a year or two here, then it's time to find a job in another city for awhile....then another move....this wouldn't be for me. I'd do the job because I love English and Russian language, not to travel the world.

Now, I have no idea, actually; I am only guessing based upon the wildly varying accounts I read on the web. But the very vagueness of the whole thing continually puts me off...which is a shame, since I love language and feel it is a rewarding thing to teach someone who wants to learn.

So, this cost of living thread really catches my attention, due to the fact that the cost of living must be compared to the earnings one has. I've seen the costs involved since I've been there...it's the earnings which are a true mystery.

Posted by: Pin Boy

ronin,

hello. so are you a teacher by trade? if so, summer work can be had. i teach english as a second language and have been lucky enough to get a job in kiev for six weeks. i leave on june 8th. the problem is that many people think because they speak english, they can teach english. well i can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, but i can't teach higher level math.

if you can find appropriate work, it would be great to work and live in the fsu for a period of time. i hope you can, and i'm glad that i have. best wishes to you.

pin boy

Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pin Boy

ronin,

hello. so are you a teacher by trade? if so, summer work can be had. i teach english as a second language and have been lucky enough to get a job in kiev for six weeks. i leave on june 8th. the problem is that many people think because they speak english, they can teach english. well i can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, but i can't teach higher level math.

if you can find appropriate work, it would be great to work and live in the fsu for a period of time. i hope you can, and i'm glad that i have. best wishes to you.

pin boy

No, not a teacher by trade, exactly. I've taught in the dental field for 4 years a long time ago, and work as a ceramist and CAD/CAM designer now. So, by all means I would undergo a good certification course with hands on teaching of language, which I love. I'm fascinated with Russian language as well; in fact, I wouldn't consider teaching in Ukraine or Russia if my Russian was poor. I just can't see living in a country and not speaking the language pretty well, but that's just me. It seems most people do this with just "survival" language skills (regardless of the country/language).

I loved the informal opportunities I've had to teach English to Russian speakers in Ukraine and Russia. Articles really freaked them out, and to some extent so did phrasal verbs. They very often have a single verb, whereas in English we more often need phrasal verbs to take their place.

I always liked the idea of teaching, but for several reasons couldn't pursue this. Also, I see what teachers must endure in my area and I don't know how they do it. Three of my friends are teachers and they have hellish jobs in war-zone schools, which is to be expected in this city (Philadelphia). It isn't really teaching; it is crowd control and actually quite dangerous. We just had few teachers beaten to death and one crippled. A true pity. It requires good connections to land a job in a decent school here.

However, TEFL would have to be along term deal, which makes it seem all the more unlikely. But, as I said, I could be wrong. I can only judge from what I read on the web, and perhaps it is feasible for a long term thing.

Posted by: Cheburashka

Here is a thread from another forum that might be the most comprehensive answer to your cost of living question:

http://www.redtape.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=2577