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Avoiding Insults(help!!!)
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Posted by: george

To everybody do you have advice to a guy who intends to find a partner in Russia what mistakes you learned from that would save me? Esp. insults and communication boundaries. I know we live and learn but I hate doing dumb things out of ignorance.
Thanks
George

Posted by: Italianetz

I suppose it depends on the situation, and how sensitive you are to other cultures. However it's nothing like middle eastern cultures where touching someone with the wrong hand causes shock and near trauma....or Turkey , where belching at the table is a sign of your approval of the food. From my experience, people from the CIS are the same as any western woman...just a variation of some traditions. A gentleman is a gentleman no matter where you're from. Anyone else want to chime in??

Posted by: Jim_FL

TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF IN THE HOUSE!

Posted by: Khashyar

That's a good suggestion, Jim...

Russia people have a similar tradition as Asians and Middle Eastern people do in regards to shoes.

Also... present gifts when you can (like flowers, candy, even wine), especially when you go to someone's house.

Posted by: george

So what is the criteria for gifts. Flowers to girl, mother? Candy is romance or friendship? Wine when you meet someone new?

Posted by: Italianetz

Shoes!! good point! As for offering gifts when making a visit, I took that as a given. It's very bad manners to visit ANYONE including familly...with an empty hand.

George, I brought a few things from the states when I went. Her brother is a soccer fan, so I brought an AC Milano jersey for him, a bottle of wine for the father....he makes homemade win in his apartment........barbie dolls for the neice etc etc. Don't sweat it till you get to that point though. You need to find the lady first!

Buona fortuna (good luck)

Posted by: george

To find my lady was really the first question. Before I start any correspondence I want to educate myself on manners and taboo. I expect this could be a very long and trying experience. I have done a lot of dating in the US before and after my 7yr marriage. I am not impressed with women in the US of today. I have dated around 24 in the last 2yrs and most off them never wanted the second date due to ME no wanting to jump in the sack. I have 2.5yr old son and here it seems to be a black mark I hope it will not be that way with my correspondence. What I really want to know bottom line is during those first few months of writing and talking what is good manners. Do I use what has not worked here? I feel old fashioned are they?

Posted by: Emetsky

I'd say learn how to speak Russian politely. That's a sure winner.

Posted by: Woody

Respect for all individuals, common courtesy and flowers for the mother-in-law.

Posted by: george

Common courtesy that crosses boundaries. Why did we ever invent war

Thanks guys the correspondence has begun wish me luck. PS I have all ready checked out Russian at the University. How can I expect my lady to do all the work huh. Thanks again.

Ow one other thing what is the best way to send flowers or gifts to a lady. Is it possible to buy there and have delivered?

Posted by: Jim_FL

This is the company I use and they have been EXCELLENT
https://www.russianservice.com/default.htm
I can usually get flowers to her over there, less expensively than sending them to Mom in PA LOL
But there are many similar companies.

Posted by: george

Hey Jim
I am reading articles you recommended. Boy ow boy what did I get into. This is going to be a commitment to rival the military and nursing school. So how long did it take you to make your decision to seek a foreign spouse. Mine took a hour to make and a lifetime to think about

Thanks for your guidance and of down the yellow brick road we go. Or is it Into the jaws of Hades we tread?
George

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi George...

I think that if you speak and write with sincerity and openess, that the other person will feel that and things will go well with your communication.

I think that Russian women ARE more old-fashioned in their moral and family "values" (compared to American women), so you might be pleasantly surprised in that regards...

If you try to be respectful and honest in your communication then I think you won't have to worry about breaking any taboos and offending your Russian correspondant.

One thing I would like to mention is that Russians in general are NOT as open as Westerners about talking about sex and sexuality. I was not assuming that you would want to have a frank conversation with your lady friend about sex, but that was one semi-taboo regarding communicating with a Russian woman that I could think of.

I wish you great success in your communication,

Khashyar

Posted by: ShermanAtlanta

Go to the bookstore and buy the Culture Shock book for the country you are planning to visit. I bought several books on Russian and Ukrainian culture and customs. Let me put it this way, If you are not willing to spend $20 and a few hours on a book, you need to forget it. When I left Ukraine to return home, my Lena's entire family showed up at my flat and we all sat in silence for a minute. I had read about this in one of the books so I expected it but I didn't expect her entire family. They also brought me gifts to take home to my family. There are lot's of customs and superstitions that you should know about. You also should make an effort to explaine to her our customs and superstitions. You might not realize just how many customs we have that are very strange to people in other countries. Lena could not believe our custom of Pot Luck dinners. Expecting your guests to bring their own food was very funny to her. In Ukraine, being invited to someones home for dinner is a very special occasion. They are a very private people. Lena explained to me that she only had one friend and that more than that would not be a good thing. You are in for a real adventure if you are serious about this subject. Good luck with your search.
Sherman

Posted by: george

Hey Khashyar
Well as far as talking about sex, no problem, if that is what I wanted I would be happy in America. I have been reading so much my head is about to slip gears and spin in circles. Don't get scammed, being upfront, honesty, culture, and language. Ahhhhhhh

But really I have been lucky to have three young ladies reply with very nice form letters. I am, I look, I want. One sent a very nice letter even wishing me luck finding my bride. That was nice. My question is what is the average turn around for correspondence. I understand the cost of communication for them but what is your opinion on average. When can I assume blow off status. Or what would be considered rude for a time frame. Also is it true that your first correspondence after the lady states her intentions of looking for marriage and what she has to offer to the partnership is laying out an outline of your intentions. Put it on the table and see if you want to play cards. Plans if you would. Isn�t it taboo to make plans or bad luck? Sorry confused on am I doing this right. It is not a Typical American conversation. Meet the girl tell her you are seeking a bride and this is me and my plans and She would look at me like I had just stepped of the good ship lollypop.
I have so much to learn or maybe more to the point unlearn.

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Sherman and George...

My wife Lena also finds the American "pot luck" custom odd... Russians always cook for their guests and do not expect them to bring their own food

The "Culture Shock" books are very good, however, when I checked last summer, they only made a Culture Shock book for Ukraine and not for Russia.

One small but good and informative book is: "The Russian Way: aspects of behavior, attitudes, and customs of the Russians." I think that Lena felt that some of the things mentioned there were generalizations, but I personally found it interesting and useful, and Lena would agree that a reasonable amount of what is written there can apply to Russians in general.

Is making plans a taboo in Russian culture? I think that it is more accurate to say that many Russians are used to disappointment in their life that they are hesitant to make plans for fear that they will not happen and they will be disappointed.

I want to begin a new thread about communicating with Russians, the frequency of their responses, etc....

I believe that Lena wrote a response to someone's question in the "Ask Lena" section about Russian women and the way that they correspond through email..... the "Ask Lena" section is in the "About Russian Women" section of this website: http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/russian_women/

I think that Russians (and Russian women) and Westerners share more similarities in how we re spond as human beings, than substancial differences based upon culture, so... my feedback would be to approach the people you are corresponding with in the way that you would treat any Westerner (and even how you would like to be treated), and then things will be fine.

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

George...

I have begun a new thread to address your communication with Russian women part of your question: http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/...hp?threadid=550

Khashyar

Posted by: Keith

I'm currently reading a book entitled "Wedded Strangers...." which is about Russian-American marriages. I bought it on Amazon.com. I'm only about a third of the way into it and the first couple of chapters are dry but the chapter on sex was interesting. In fact, I found it down right shocking. Maybe when I finish it, I will further comment on it.

Keith

Posted by: Jim_FL

A short read, but a very interesting book for me was:
"The Russian Way" while it's slightly outdated, it gives a very good overview of why things are the way they are, as well as customs and a number of other things. It's inexpensive, and a gave it to my parents after I was done with it, they were impressed as well.

Wedded Strangers has been a topic of some dispute here in the past (actually, back when this was just a tiny little yahoo group)
Opinions differed on it's validity as an acurate representation. I won't comment further right now, but when you're done the book, maybe we can open this topic back up for discussion

Posted by: Dennis/Natasha

Here is what I suggest. Find one who writes to you specifically and stick with her until you know she is Mrs. right or Mrs. Wrong. If she is interested you should ask questions and expect specific answers to common life question. Use your head and if you don�t have or think you might lack social etiquette ask someone how they would feel if asked a question you are about to ask here. Deeply intimate and personal information should not be shared until the relationship and the communication with in the relationship calls for it I think and that should take more then 5-6 letters and a few phone calls. I wish you the best of luck.

Posted by: RuskayaJeegar

I am Russian girl, and I am to have comment. First, it is rude to take them out to dinner in their country. Many cannot afford it, and will feel guilt because you are paying. They will refuse to eat rather than you are pay. And you should not comment about money, if you are complain about price of something, you will come off cheap. If you say something cheap, you will sound arrogant about wealth.

Also, when you are sit, do not show the sole of foot. Cross your legs so that foot is face to floor, or do not cross legs. It is considered rude.

Posted by: Jill

I noticed your intention to send flowers and just wanted to caution you that you should send an ODD number (even numbers of flowers are only for funerals) and it's better not to send to send yellow flowers (according to superstition, yellow flowers symbolize separation).

Quote:

Is making plans a taboo in Russian culture? I think that it is more accurate to say that many Russians are used to disappointment in their life that they are hesitant to make plans for fear that they will not happen and they will be disappointed.

Well, and here is another superstition. When you make a plan (of course this is when you are speaking, not writing), you should spit three times and knock wood. Well, I guess we do this sometimes, too (at least the knocking wood part).

There are MANY superstitions here (whistling indoors, empty bottles on the table, etc)--of course, not everyone believes in them, but it usually best to follow them. This will apply more to when you actually travel there than when you are writing letters, though.

Quote:

They are a very private people. Lena explained to me that she only had one friend and that more than that would not be a good thing.

Actually, I think this is individual, rather than cultural as many (if not most) Ukrainians I know have several friends that they consider to be close friends and usually a large network of acquaintances that they are on friendly terms with. And in general I would say that Americans are actually more private than many Ukrainians. So I think this depends more on the person (e.g. extrovert vs. introvert).

Quote:

In Ukraine, being invited to someones home for dinner is a very special occasion.

Yes, Ukrainians are famous for their hospitality. Oh, speaking of which, there is another custom you should know about it. When Ukrainians are offered something, often they will refuse. It is considered polite to accept only on the third offer.

Quote:

When I left Ukraine to return home, my Lena's entire family showed up at my flat and we all sat in silence for a minute.

Yes, this is also a custom. I actually kind of like this one.

Quote:

I think that Russian women ARE more old-fashioned in their moral and family "values" (compared to American women), so you might be pleasantly surprised in that regards...

I would be careful of this generalization. In some cases, it is true, but it is changing now, especially in large cities. I have many female Russian/Ukrainian friends (and in laws) and I see no real difference between the values I was raised with and the values they hold (and, yes, I would consider myself fairly typical in terms of American vaules). If you are looking for so-called "traditional values," you might want to focus your search on smaller towns and villages.

The best advice I can give you is to be polite and sincere. And learn Russian.

Posted by: jeffs

What's is the reason behind the sitting in silence for a minute?

Posted by: Jill

Before leaving on a trip? I think it's just for good luck in travel and a safe return.

Posted by: yellojacket9

Don't act like a rude American, they hate that - we are better than everyone else attitude. SO does every other country.

Take your shoes off,

Don't chew gum in public.

Don't cross you legs while setting.

DOn't whistle indoors.

Don't give even number of flowers.

ALways offer your arm to women getting in taxis, on/off metro. Going upstairs/downstairs etc.

Take flowers to mother in law to be, or chocolates.

DO not curse, drink excessive !!

Don't worry about their driving - they all drive crazy - and it works for some reason!!!

The FSu people are great and very friendly, they will be very helpful, and they want to engage you in conversation. - it is a very safe country.

The worst mistake most AMericans make, is the simple I am better than you , we have the best country attitude. Every country hates that. But, for some reason alot of Americans continue doing so.

They do have alot of superstitions, but the most common are above.

Women love to be held and treated like ladies- and respected...

pre-1960's America.......

Posted by: Raspberry

One of the girls I met in Dnepro had a bit of an objection about me taking a picture of her, citing a certain Russian proverb to the effect that I should do this on my return.

For the other girls, I played it on the safe side and kept the camera hidden.

Oddly enough, on the previous trip, I had no problems.....in fact, both of the girls encouraged me take photos.

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khashyar

There was a lot of "hurry up and wait" on this trip. Also, people will ask you what you want to do, then tell you what to do......much like in other countries I have visited. So, that would make sense.