Once a scammer, always a scammer? - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Once a scammer, always a scammer?
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Posted by: joelunchbox

Hold on to your hats, this may be a long post...
First off, I have written several ladies over the last two years. All turned out to be scammers. I lost no money on any of them. I took 3 or 4 months off from writing ladies so I could actually figure out what I was looking for in someone and also toughen up a little just in case I hit another scammer. They hurt don't they? And, I got my passport because I was going to be serious on the next go round.
Last December I wrote to someone I saw on webdate. She answered with a nice personal letter and we wrote casually for several months. She never asked for money although I would bait her occasionally. All her letters were personal and we got to know each other fairly well...well enough for me to ask about visiting. I thought that would bring out the "visa" scam for sure if she was not real. Instead, she offered to find an apartment, and show me Kiev for five days. She never asked for any money up front or anything.
So, last June I hop on Lufthansa and off I go. I figured either she would be there or she wouldn't...right? I get off the plane, screwup in customs..takes an extra 45 minutes to fix that...finally walk out the gate, looking for the driver she hired and ...there he was! I walked out to the taxi and there she was. She got out of school early. She wasn't ticked off or anything. She puts up with me cashing traveler's checks--they are a big pain to cash. and off we go to the apartment and to eat. The apartment is nice and reasonable ($50 a night) and the food was excellent. She turns out to be one of the most sophistacated young ladies I have ever met. Excellent taste in restaurants--which she kept pulling discount cards out for, saving me 10 percent!. We walkedl we talked, we toured the Lavra catacombs... After five days, I am out one meal a day for us, a pair of shoes and matching purse for her and one gift each for her goddaughter, niece,and nephew bought at the dollar store. And she was delighted when she got a discount card for that store!
She was neither hot nor cold toward me, but I didn't push that issue because I didn't visit her to make out for 5 days...That would have been nice too, though. The taxis we take are cheap, the apartment I rent is cheap, The food we eat is worth the money. The best food I have ever eaten, period. I would have eaten at McD's for five days..... She never asked for money, I offered to buy her the shoes--her feet were hurting after walking all over kiev (and I could tell by her face on that). The purse, her idea but I understand the concept of mathching shoes and purse

When I get home, I go ove the trip many times, and I see nothing that rings any bells...
All the time I have written her, I check for scam alerts. Nothing except my past experiences drive me to do this. Nothing pops up on her and I run CAtherine, in every possible configuration I can think of. I do find her on a couple of old dating sites and nothing shows up bad there either.
So, after 7 months of writing, calling, a visit and agreeing to initiate a K_! visa wouldn't you think you are home free??
Well, I don't know what I typed in differently yesterday...but, I found her on a scam alert from 3 years ago.
http://www.uaprofiler.com/profiles/profile.php?id=301
http://www.russian-detective.com/bl...gai_k/bugai.htm
Wow, I was blown away. the russian detective site mentioned specifics that show it was her.
I see nothing about her for the last three years..is there a chance that she was put up to it and has left it behind?? This happened when she was 18-she is now 22.
I have never heard of anyone doing one scam. IF anyone knows of her doing anything in between the alerts and now..I would like to know. She has had a lot of chances to press me for money but never has. She treated very nicely while I was there and never whined or begged.
I have written her, and asked for an explanation. It is sad and amazing that such a nice, refined, down to earth girl has something like this in her past.
So, I have no comment, I am wiped out by this. I will pass on her explanation-if any.
Thank You for your time and input.

Posted by: Khashyar

That's strange, Joe...

Well... you could continue to correspond with her and see if she asks you for money.

I personally would just ask her about the incident with "Michael Sommers" and hear what she has to say.

Remeber also that you have only heard ONE side of the story at this point (Michael S's side).

What he wrote on the scam website could be true, or not true.

But, certainly you should careful, speak with her about this and hear her side...

It seems strange that if she IS a scammer, that she would be trying to save you money.... And why did she NOT ask you for money before you came? It would have been very easy for her to ask for money to "secure" your apartment, etc... But she did NOT ask for money.

I knew of a Belarusian woman who was an honest good woman, and then a Western man who was just hurt because she decided not to be with him (because he apparently was an alcoholic), added her to a scam website.

In the case of the Belarusian woman above, and the woman YOU are writing to, the women did not have the chance to respond to the accusations against them.

I would speak with her about it and get her side of the story.

Perhaps her side of the story is that she simply decided that she didn't like him, or that they were not right for each other, and decided to end the relationship. I would be curious to read the "Dear John" letter that she wrote.

(It's amazing how the internet allows the free-flow of information, and makes the world a more connected, smaller place).

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Khashyar

Posted by: joelunchbox

I still have an open mind about this...this is just a blindsider...didn't see this coming. I tried to write Mike S. but the mailbox that was given was full and it bounced back. It is difficult to not write an acussing letter in this situation. I hope I let her know that I do care about her.
thanks Khash!

Posted by: Texas Proud

Hey Joe,

Well, I am like Khashyar...

do not send money... ask in a civil tone what she knows and see what happens..

there have been a number of people who write on this site that women's profile are hijacked and it is not the woman..

For me, I have only had two women try to scam me. The first was SO obvious it was amazing... the second was like the one mentioned in that she needed the letters translated and the agency would do that for $x... I decided that it was not worth it to pay.. thinking it was a real request.. I just saw her on another site recently doing the same thing, but with a different name..

So, she could be for real or a scammer... you have not way of knowing right now.

Posted by: searcher

I'll add this, there have been quite a few women that were blacklisted simply because they didn't get alone with a particular man.

There were instances of women blacklisted because they didn't "put out", etc.....

Blacklist are helpful but not necessarily the final word about a woman's honesty or integrity.

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
I'll add this, there have been quite a few women that were blacklisted simply because they didn't get alone with a particular man.

There were instances of women blacklisted because they didn't "put out", etc.....

Blacklist are helpful but not necessarily the final word about a woman's honesty or integrity.

Well said, Searcher...

(by the way, look forward to seeing you at the BBQ tomorrow

Steve and I had a great time eating and have a couple of beers tonight).

Khashyar

Posted by: ConnerVT

It is an interesting situation you have yourself in. I will not say for certain if she is a scammer or not, but instead give you some things to think about.

I read the accounts of her alleged activities in the links you posted. As you said, it certainly is the same girl (as sometimes another woman will have their photo 'stolen' off the Internet). The details seem a bit too accurate and complete to be a fabrication. It is more likely that she was a co-conspirator (or at least an accessory) with an agency conducting a visa scam. Of course, if he wants to send money for English lessons, cell phone, a heater for the parents, etc., so much the better. Finding a scammer in Lugansk does not seem to be very difficult.

There are more ways to conduct a scam than a visa scam (and "Please help me, Mama is in the hospital!"). You may have visited what people call a "Good Time Girl."

She was able to enjoy a 5 day vacation in Kiev. You bought a few gifts for her. You are happy she was saving you money. You still were spending at a much greater pace than a 22 yo FSU woman typically does. It is interesting how a girl from Lugansk has so many discount cards usable in Kiev.

You say that both of your felt neither "hot or cold" toward one another. If it were me, I'd write this one as having an interesting vacation, and sharing it with an attractive young woman. You now have visited the FSU, and have a better understanding of what is involved looking for love abroad.

Most RW will make it be known if they are truly interested in you. They are almost possessive of their man, marking them with their 'scent' to warn others of their claim. I think it's time to look elsewhere...

Posted by: joelunchbox

Just a couple more details. She lives in Kiev-at least for the last 7 months. I mailed cards to her early on to make sure. And she is apparently pretty religious. Trying saying that right after saying she was in a scam.... The student from her university that acted as a tourguide for us (price was very reasonable) made an offhand comment on that aspect of her. Along with some other things gleaned from writing her. So, I didn't think it wise to push the physical part of the trip.
This is one of the half full half empty things so far...just depends on whether she fills the glass up or empties it out for me...haha
So, no one can find a scam involving her within the last 3 years?

Posted by: ConnerVT

Where did you find the tour guide?

Posted by: GreenBarb

I agree with ConnerVT on this one. But it is strange. Women are possessive about their men.Russian women will let you know how they feel about you, even something a simply walking along the street together.

You mention the purse and shoes, did she give you any gifts?

Casually bring it up and see what her reaction will be, do it gently.

then you have to make up your mind about her.

Posted by: joelunchbox

She found the tour guide. He was someone she knew through university. Vladimir. Apparently 80% of males are named Vladimir...taxi driver, tour guide, father, etc...haha I put myself in her hands for the trip. And I had no complaints. She was a very nice hostess.
She gave me a stuffed bear when I left.
I really did not expect anything. I got the impression that she did not have much money (discount cards, shoe condition, wore the same jeans two days in a row, the little telltale signs.). Maybe I was just a way for her to be glamorous for a week-nice food, walk around the city, but then, why did she spend it with an unglamorous guy?

Normally she writes every other day...but the last three weeks have been much more sporadic. One week I accept her explanation--visited parents in Lugansk. but, after that, I worry and get more suspicious..
No answer by monday and I think the glass will have emptied...see earlier post.
I am holding out hope that she is a nice girl, with a shady past. Might make a good novel....

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by joelunchbox
She found the tour guide. He was someone she knew through university. Vladimir. Apparently 80% of males are named Vladimir...taxi driver, tour guide, father, etc...haha I put myself in her hands for the trip. And I had no complaints. She was a very nice hostess.

The reason I ask is I know of several guys whom have taken a trip, and their driver/tour guide was the woman's boyfriend/relative/boss (one of these men who experienced it frequents RMP). It's another method that has been used for your money to stick to them.

As I wrote before, chalk it up as an interesting vacation.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
The reason I ask is I know of several guys whom have taken a trip, and their driver/tour guide was the woman's boyfriend/relative/boss (one of these men who experienced it frequents RMP). It's another method that has been used for your money to stick to them.

As I wrote before, chalk it up as an interesting vacation.

I agree with Conner... and in fact she might have saved you enough money to have paid for her and the driver and you still come out ahead!!

I can say that I enjoyed my vacation a lot... and even though things did not work out she did save me a lot.

Posted by: joelunchbox

Cathy has written me, she is upset. I am going to ask that no more posts be made to this thread speculating about possible scams involving her. Please reread my original post...there is no sign of scamming as of this time. If anyone has concrete evidence, post it.
Plese resist the impulse to post unless it fits the above. I would hate to have her read somethingn about herself that is untrue and finish this relationship off. There is nothing anyone can post at this point that will improve the situation.
Give us a few days to let the dust settle. I know that the girl I wrote, met, and invited to the US doesn't fit with the stuff from 3 years ago. Everyone cross your fingers...
thanks much guys,
joelunchbox

Posted by: searcher

As a moderator i'll do you a favor and lock this thread so no one can add post.

Best wishes and good luck!