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A Russian woman friend of Lena's is getting a divorce from her American husband
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Posted by: Khashyar

Well....

Lena has a few good Russian women friends in the Los Angeles area (6 to 8), and one of her Russian friends is receiving a divorce from her American husband. This is the first case of a Russian-American couple friend of ours divorcing.

Of course I am not going to reveal who the person is (so as to respect confidentiality), but... I am wondering what we might learn from their relationship and their divorce.

Ironically, this Russian woman friend of Lena's and her husband did NOT meet through the internet. They met when she was studying in the United States.

They have been married for a few years (about 5 years), and had been together for about 8 years.

She told Lena that she and her husband were having some difficulties for a couple of years now.

This friend of Lena's said that she had offered or suggested to her husband that they go to therapy to work on their issues, but he told her that she knew who he was when she married him, and that he did not think that it would help.

One of the things that bothered Lena's Russian friend was that her husband simply did not work or seek a semi-full time job. He would do some small, temporary, low-paying assignments, but he would not seek a full-time job, and she felt that all of the financial responsibilities were on her shoulders.

She mentioned that he seemed to assume that she was the one who should be responsible for paying their bills. Whenever a bill would come to the house, even if it was "his" bill, then he would hand her the bill and say that she needed to pay this bill (without giving her any money for the bill).

On one occasion (an event that symbolized his lack of responsibility, from her perspective), he earned about $100 from some temporary work, and then he went and played poker with his friends that same evening and lost all of the money that he has just earned that day.

In another recent incident, she received some inheritance from the death of her mother and sale of the mother's property in Russia. She wanted to save this money so that they could perhaps have enough for a down payment to purchase a house in the future. When she brought the inheritance home, he immediately spent one third of it on what she considered unnecessary. She felt that he was not responsible with money, and that she was having a difficult time pursuing her goals because she had to be financially responsible for him as well as her.

She says that in general, he tends to stay home and watch TV, rather than look for a job.

She told Lena that when she first met her husband, that he treated her a little badly. Lena asked her why she married him if he was a bit rude with her, and she said that she loved him.

We have a male friend (who is also a friend of this couple). He called the Russian woman's husband and encouraged him to work on the marriage and the difficulties. He told our friend that the divorce was inevitable, and that there was nothing that could be done.

Of course, I am only hearing the Russian woman's perspective from what Lena tells me based on their conversations.

So, what can we learn from this?

I personally think that it is reasonable for one person in a family to expect that both spouses to take some responsibility in paying the bills and meeting the couple's financial needs. It seems that the husband in this case really didn't want to earn money to help pay the bills, and expected her to bring home the bacon.

Lena's Russian friend is sad about the divorce, as I believe the husband is. But they both are coming to the conclusion that this is the right decision.

My understanding is that the issue about work and money has been something that Lena's friend has been unhappy about for a while, and that she expressed this to him over the past few years, but the issue was never resolved. He didn't seem to want to resolve the issue.

I believe that it is important to listen to what bothers your partner, and to what they are unhappy about, before it spoils the well of the relationship.

Lena's friend's husband did not want to make any changes in his life, and so they both decided to divorce.

Khashyar

Posted by: Texas Proud

Khashyar,

It is sad to hear, but I do not think this has anything to do with her being Russian. It more than likely would have happened if she was an American (and in fact, maybe sooner!!). When someone is taking advantage of someone else it is not healthy.

I had a conversation with my Ukrainian friend and she had a friend that live in America and she is doing the same thing, working two jobs and he does not get one. Now he is studying, but he is in his late 30s!!! If you wanted to be a good husband you would provide for your family. But, she is 'blind in love' as my friend says and will not divorce the man.

Just my thoughts....

Posted by: Khashyar

It is good to read your thoughts, Texas.

(By the way, I just came back to Los Angeles from Texas this morning-- I was in Houston to see some family, and drove back through West Texas... You've got a very large state which takes over 12 hours to drive across

)

Yes, I think that the only aspect of Lena's friend's behavior that is Russian is the fact that she tried so hard in the relationship, and that she was willing to work at a job and support him, as long as he had some goals and were moving towards them.

She came to realize that she was being hurt by the marriage, she tried to communicate this to him, but he was not willing to compromise on something that was very important to her.

I believe that some Russian women are socialized to stay with her husband under more difficult circumstances than an American woman is socialized to stay in a marriage.

My understanding is that in a significant number of families in Russia, that the woman is the bread winner and the psychological strength of her family, and that women are asked to be strong and play many different societal roles.

Khashyar

Posted by: ConnerVT

Although you said that you and Lena have only heard one side of the story, your last sentence is probably the most telling:

Quote:

Lena's friend's husband did not want to make any changes in his life, and so they both decided to divorce.

Life is about change. In marriage (regardless of nationalities), the goal is to change together, so each person makes the union stronger. I know too many couples that have not changed together, now divorced or in poor marriages.

Ironically, because he does not want any changes in his life, he now will have a drastic one...

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Conner....

Yes, life and people change whether we want or are conscious of this change, or not.

Actually, the husband seemed a bit immature to me when I spent time with him. He didn't seem like a bad person, just someone who is somewhat immature.

I agree, Conner, that a couple needs to communicate with one another, address one another's needs, and change together in some form that complements one another.

I wish the two of them well.

So, amongst our Los Angeles Russian-Western couple friends (about 7 couples of so), there is about a 14% divorce rate (although we probably can't draw any larger global conclusions from this).

Khashyar

Posted by: GreenBarb

His lack of commitment to full time employment is reflected in his attitude to his Wife and their marriage. I do not thinkn it would have mattered what nationallity his wife is she would still have ended up divorcing him.
For any man not wanting to be employed full-time, be it for a company or as a self-employed person is a worrying factor in of it's own.

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by GreenBarb
His lack of commitment to full time employment is reflected in his attitude to his Wife and their marriage. I do not thinkn it would have mattered what nationallity his wife is she would still have ended up divorcing him.
For any man not wanting to be employed full-time, be it for a company or as a self-employed person is a worrying factor in of it's own.

Yes..... The husband has acted like a rebel and a free spirit throughout their marriage.

As I mentioned, she told Lena that he was a bit rude to her in the very beginning when they first met, but that she "fell in love with him."

But, I think that even if he were not employed full-time, if he had a goal and worked hard to acheive it, then she probably would have accepted and respected that.

But, I think that his attitude of not showing her full respect demonstrated itself in different ways.

I don't want to badmouth him, but... for the two years or so that I have known them, I perceived her as being a nice, intelligent, warm person, and I never fully enjoyed being with him. Although he's not a bad guy, I often felt a bit uncomfortable with him. He didn't seem to know much about Russian culture or care much about Russian culture. He seemed to think about himself quite a bit (which is a negative aspect of materialistic American culture). And he liked gambling and "split the restaurant bill to the penny" a bit too much for my liking.

But Lena and I have always had a good feeling about her and liked her very much....

Khashyar

Posted by: GreenBarb

I know that I am not due to be married until next October but already Vera is the priority in my life. She comes first before me and my desires.
I think that respect and consideration are very important in a relationship and this is what the husband in question was short of.
When I visited Vera last February her brother told me that he was pleased that I showed respect for his sister and that was very important for me. It did not matter what others thought of how I showed my respect for Vera but that I gave her respect and she knew it.
I think respect is not just for another persons views or beliefs but shows them how important they are to you. A simple thing as opening a door or helping them with their coat, lets them know that they are the important person in your life. But that is just me and the way I was brought up.

Posted by: Pin Boy

re: "she fell in love with him"...this kills me, it absolutely kills me!!! i see this too often for my stomach to take...but what i've learned is that these supposedly good and attractive woman have their own demons and are no picnic themselves. the whole "bad boy attraction" is ridiculous. being a good guy sometimes gets you the old "nice guys finish last."

as an old friend used to jokingly say in reference to women who are attracted to guys who don't do right by them, "whip me, beat me, call me scum. make me write bad checks!"

pin boy

Posted by: Khashyar

Actually, the Russian woman friend of Lena's is actually a sensitive and nice woman.

She didn't state this, but I think that perhaps she was feeling lonely in a new country without her parents, and she needed someone to become emotionally involved with.

Once she came to the U.S., she decided that she wanted to stay, and she couldn't return to her native country...

But, I know that she wasn't looking for a greencard, and that she tried very hard to make the marriage work.

I know, Pin Boy, that sometimes some women go for "bad guys," but there are plenty of nice guys who find nice girls too

Khashyar

Posted by: j_c

Hi all

I was reading the previous post and I would just like to comment about the Rusian / English couples that I know in the UK.

When I was first seeing my wife Irina, she introduced me to a couple from Dover, who I spent some time getting to know before Irina came to the UK. I am sad to say that they have split up earlier this year after approx 2 years of marriage. They struggled for money , living day to day not knowing if they would have enough money to see the month out. He would take dead end jobs and move jobs every 3-6 months.The reason that they say they split up was because they started seeing other people after drifting apart.

We moved last year because of work , and I met a guy on my russian course who was seperated from his russian wife. Strange thing is my wife also knew his wife, she had met her in the street after hearing her speaking Russian with her mother.Two different reasons for the split, she said he lost his job, was not interested in getting one as well and things went down hill from there. He said that she was like a diva, wanted this, wanted that, always arguing.

The last couple, unfortunatley her husband died, he was quite a bit older, but left her in quite a bit of finacial trouble, with debts so high she had to sell the house she lived in and move to something smaller.

We are a bit of the anomily, still married, nearly 2 years in, but I am happy to say , still love each other.

I think the common theme above is that financial stress has played a big part in all these relationships. When we choose to marry someone from "the other side of the world" we need to think long and hard about the practicalities of the relationship - the finances - to ensure that it doesnt affect each other in the ways mentioned. I think I am trying to say that if you are struggling financialy now, have credit cards , loans and do not own your own house, think long and hard before bringing that special lady into your life.

Regards and good luck to you all

JC

Posted by: Pin Boy

amen brother jc!

as many polls show, money issues are at the top of the reasons for divorce.

pin boy

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks for the interesting anecdotal information, jc...

I feel saddened by those other relationships ending...

In Lena and my case, we know approximately 6 or 7 couples who are still together, and only one that has received a divorce, as I mentioned.

Nearly all of the couple we know are experiencing some financial stress, but all but one of the couples is still together.

Khashyar

Posted by: Caritas

Money....they come and go. If a husband and a wife truly love, respect, understand each other, willing to listen and hear each other - they stay together.

Posted by: Pin Boy

yes, very true...but money can make it a hell of a lot easier...but that's the easy answer because usually the more a person earns the more that person burns...people often allow their expenses to keep pace with their income rather than living below their means and having more when it's truly needed.

pin boy

Posted by: Texas Proud

Here is my view from someone never married, but is very observant...

If there are money problems and the couple loves each other and BOTH are working hard to solve the problem (and I do not mean both making money) then it usually will work out.... When I say both 'working' that means that one is not laying around the house drinking beer and living off the other... it means they are doing whatever they can do to help, which might be making lunches for their spouse to take to work, not buying things they think they need... many ways to save money.

However, if one is taking advantage of the other, not doing any work at home etc. etc..... then it is doomed to fail most of the time... I say most, because some people will still say they are in love and will accept this life, which is thier right.

Again, you can be happy with very little in this world if you both are in tune and are supportive of the other.

Khashyar, remember to tell your friend that there are many men that would love a woman like her, when she recovers from her loss... and that USUALLY the next marriage is better!!

Posted by: Caritas

Quote:

USUALLY the next marriage is better!!

Amen to that. I wish you were right.

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by Caritas
Amen to that. I wish you were right.

I do think that a person can learn from their first marriage, gain some wisdom as to how to better choose and maintain the next marriage, and be happier in their next marriage.

The opportunity is there for a person to reflect and learn from their first marriage (or even past relationships that weren't marriages).

I was married one time before Lena (about 8 years before meeting Lena), and I learned a tremendous amount that helped me make a better choice the second time.

Yes, it was hard to get divorced the first time, and there were sasd and painful moments, but... I recovered, my ex-wife recovered, and now we moved on with our lives having come out of it wiser.

My first wife and I were much younger when we were married (my ex-wife was 21, and I was 28

)..... Perhaps I wasn't THAT young, but... I was much wiser when I met and married Lena.

When Lena and I were married (in Valentine's Day in 2003), I was almost 37 years of age (and Lena was 23)... (by the way, we have a 13 1/2 year difference in ages).

Neither of us regret our decision after 3 years of marriage.

Khashyar

Posted by: Caritas

This is wonderful. I am happy for both of you!

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by Caritas
This is wonderful. I am happy for both of you!

Thanks, Caritas...

Because people who marry are human, I don't believe that there are any "perfect" marriages without any disagreements or conflicts or even unhappy moments.

I heard somewhere that marriage is like "learning to dance together." When you are first married or dating, two personalities are learning to live and express their happiness together.

I think that sometimes, people give up because they either are not patient enough in learning how to resolve difficulties, or... they believe that there is something perfect out there-- a relationship and marriage that will always "make" them happy.

I believe that happiness is created by a person, and a happy marriage is created by two people, but with each person realizing that they must be as responsible as they can in creating the greatest happiness in the marriage as possible.

Marriage is also an inner journey where you learn about how you interact with another person-- your weaknesses and strengths come out when you are relating and dealing with another person on a daily basis. Your fears may surface and show themselves. You might see more ugliness in your partner than beauty during some moments.

But, I believe if you are looking for a lasting, committed, and love-filled relationship, then you will find it.

If you LOOK for happiness with the partner you are with, then you can find it.

I don't think marriage is about being "inlove" every day for the rest of your lives.

I believe that marriage is a path-- a journey, where you are learning to love more than you have loved before, and where both partner's lives are enhanced and supported by the journey.

I believe that if a person looks for this kind of relationship in the beginning-- if you really reflect and meditate on who the right person is for you and what is the best choice for you, then a person will make the "right" decision for themselves.

It's almost like a marathon race where you know the ending, but you are surprised by the curves and scenery and turns.

Lena and I are still learning about how to best "dance" with each other.

As long as we are both willing, then it will be a good dance.

Khashyar

Posted by: BradIL

Excellent post Khashyar!

Posted by: moonlight

It's sad when our friends aren't happy. But... 7 years of it??? I do not want to be harsh on that girl, it all must be devastating for her as it is, but just for the sake of hope that she will come out of it a little bit wiser - WHY was she letting him to do it to her and why for so long? How about respect for yourself? I am sure she is the nicest and sweetest girl, but until she learns how to be nice and sweet to HERSELF too, I am afraid the 'bad guys' won't leave her alone. Every person should have a line which nobody is permitted to cross under any circumstances - whether it will be for the sake of love, status, money or whatever else 'the permit to cross' might be traded for (I except 'for the sake of the children' reason though, because it's much more compicated issue). As soon as the permission is given - the entire life can go out of control. Not even because we don't know what to expect from those 'with permit' - but because we don't know what else we'll be capable of giving up for them in the future. So, in a way it's good the divorce is taking place now, after 7 years. It could easily be 17, 27, 37... so - well done, girl, get rid of that degenerate, you can do so much better and still have plenty of time to suddenly bump into your happiness, just don't forget: 'the ones who make you cry don't deserve your tears, and those who deserve them won't make you cry'. Don't underestimate yourself and go for the one who truly deserves you. Good luck!

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Pin Boy
re: "she fell in love with him"...this kills me, it absolutely kills me!!! i see this too often for my stomach to take...but what i've learned is that these supposedly good and attractive woman have their own demons and are no picnic themselves. the whole "bad boy attraction" is ridiculous. being a good guy sometimes gets you the old "nice guys finish last."

as an old friend used to jokingly say in reference to women who are attracted to guys who don't do right by them, "whip me, beat me, call me scum. make me write bad checks!"

pin boy

Hmmm maybe it is a good thing to have a bit of the bad boy in you. Dont become too predictable. Its a good thing when your fiancee or wife playfully calls you fairly frequently a bad boy.

Women want to be part of an adventure big than themselves. The attractive womans biggest problem is that men have this tendency to make HER the adventure instead of letting her PARTICIPATE in an adventure that spans a lifetime.....

Posted by: mistermopar

Quote:

When Lena and I were married (in Valentine's Day in 2003), I was almost 37 years of age (and Lena was 23)...

If you and Lena got married in 2003,why did yous have a wedding in 2005??
I'm confused

Randy

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermopar

If you and Lena got married in 2003,why did yous have a wedding in 2005??
I'm confused

Randy

They had a simple wedding at first and it was important for Lena (and many FSU women) to have a church wedding so eventually that is what they did, they had a church wedding in Belarus.

Posted by: mistermopar

Thanks Searcher,I should have figured that out,guess I'm a little over tired and can't think.

Randy

Posted by: Khashyar

Yes, we were initially married in a Los Angeles courthouse before a judge (and with no friends attending) because we needed to marry within 90 days of Lena arriving in the U.S. (to satisfy the U.S. fiance visa requirement). This first marriage was on Valentine's Day 2003.

This Sept. 2005 wedding was for all of our family and friends, and because Lena REALLY wanted a church wedding.

Khashyar

Posted by: Novosibirsk1

Money ...yes. But it sounds like a case of no motivation on his part. Maybe an American or English lady would have shown him the door much sooner.

Posted by: skinsfan

Robohioguy....you are right on.....you said it well !!

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novosibirsk1

Money ...yes. But it sounds like a case of no motivation on his part. Maybe an American or English lady would have shown him the door much sooner.

Money problems are a leading reason for divorce. Especially when a husband isnt willing or making an effort.

Everyone's situation is different but I stand by my ealier statements. In general its the man's role to be a bread winner. If his wife has an expectation that it is his job then he is dropping the ball....

As my wife says to me.... "Rob... I think you know what you doing"

For those of you with a wife from the FSU you probably understand what she is saying....

Be the man. When you cease being the man.... eventually, she will cease being your wife

Posted by: FrancoPUA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caritas

Money....they come and go. If a husband and a wife truly love, respect, understand each other, willing to listen and hear each other - they stay together.

Yes but a woman on her unconscious level will never forgive to her man a lowering of his RANK. ( only exception maybe some masculine women but not all of them )

She was attracted to the Bad Guy at the beginning but on the long-term he was not enough of a "Bad Guy" to really raise his rank by having success.

Many women of every nationality fall for this.

Posted by: Emetsky

Hmmm, this is an interesting discussion about Lena's Russian lady friend who is getting a divorce from her American husband. I wonder if this Russian lady friend of Lena already got her green card.

If a Russian woman gets divorced before getting her permanent green card, can she still apply to get the green card by herself.

Spasibo!

Posted by: Emetsky

Hello folks! 'found this thread on the web about an American guy and a Russian woman getting a divorce.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....77a92bcad31393a

Posted by: pwise125

[QUOTE=Pin Boy]re: "she fell in love with him"...this kills me, it absolutely kills me!!! i see this too often for my stomach to take...but what i've learned is that these supposedly good and attractive woman have their own demons and are no picnic themselves. the whole "bad boy attraction" is ridiculous. being a good guy sometimes gets you the old "nice guys finish last."

as an old friend used to jokingly say in reference to women who are attracted to guys who don't do right by them, "whip me, beat me, call me scum. make me write bad checks!"

pin boy

I think that to fall in Love you have to know the person fairly well so you can make an intelligent choice. Because marriage IS a choice--you can do it or NOT do it. In her case not doing it would have meant returning to Russia but hey better in my mind than a nasty divorce! I had one of those & they are NO fun--they tear you up emotionally.

Maybe she should have addressed his lack of regulat income before "falling in Love!" I was right up front with Lena in my letters even before we met. I told her I had been forced into a very early retirement and that I had an assured income & health ins for life. I also told her it was not as much as my salary had been but was enough for 2 to live on comfortable but not lavishly. She accepted this before we even met. But now what can your friend do--it's a tough one?

Posted by: Emetsky

Here's a link to information regaring divorcing an immigrant

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/ne...ig rant_spouse

Posted by: gonlaz

Duplicate

Posted by: gonlaz

"...her husband simply did not work or seek a semi-full time job. He would do some small, temporary, low-paying assignments, but he would not seek a full-time job..."

There's your answer right there, dude - too many guys here in America are lazy asses and won't work, thinking that the woman is supposed to be working as much, or more, than they are.

Love will not beat laziness, ever, and be a healthy relationship