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Scammer Checking Site
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Posted by: fly4fun

Thought I'd throw this out there and get some feedback on an idea I've been tossing around.
I've got a fairly good background in web design etc and thought about starting a site where men could post a lady's first name, age, location, hair color and their own email address.
In this way a man could find out if anyone else had been in contact with a lady that matched.

This idea came about after it came to light that some of us were corresponding with the same ladies and they all turned out to be scammers. One would have saved thousands of dollars if he'd known in advance.
Even the basic information I've listed above would have thrown up a red flag enough for someone to ask.

None of the referenced ladies were on any scam watch site.

What does everyone think of this idea and any suggestions on format would help..

No personal information on the lady would be posted and no direct links to her ad. This would be something that would have to take place between men via email.

Posted by: ConnerVT

How wold this be different from the current scammer web sites out there already, other than lacking the immediate gratification of looking for someone when the thought occurs to you?

It also would be a wonderful way to harvest email addys for spam, or make you the accomplice in distributing spam.

You may also experience the same legal hurdles that have been plaguing the current spam sites, causing them lawsuits and shutting them down.

Sorry to rain on your picnic...

Posted by: E.T.

Whereas I can't say anything about the legal or technical part of the project, I really believe, that it could be a help.

I have recently been involved in a situation, where this kind of information saved the implicated parts from
both new and old problems. And though it required knowledge of how to handle it, the amount of time
and energy actually doing it, was small compared to what could have happened otherwise.

Posted by: Maclode

Hi I think it would be a great idea but it would have to be done as information only, or as a not for profit to protect you from liability. I don't see a problem listing the names of ladies being used for scamming, with proof of their scam. As long as no particular websites are mentioned. A searchable database would be best I think.

So far I have had 2 scammers contact me from a profile I have on yahoo. I was interested the first time in meeting someone genuine, but now that I know what’s going on, I am just collecting names, letters and faces. I would be happy to turn over any information I have, to make sure that other guys don't fall for the same scam. Luckily I was able to find out what was going on before I invested any monies. I know there are allot of vulnerable guys out there who are looking for the real thing who are being taken advantage by things such as this.

What would be the best thing would be to have a go between that could protect both side incase of scam. I think this is asking too much, and at this point, I personally have my guard up.
I have become some what leery of the whole situation of seeking a girl from another country. I mean if I want to get suckered I can do that right here in the good ol USA.

/rant off

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Maclode
Hi I think it would be a great idea but it would have to be done as information only, or as a not for profit to protect you from liability. I don't see a problem listing the names of ladies being used for scamming, with proof of their scam.

Laws on libel and defamation of character do not care about motive or profit. There have been not-for-profit web sites that have closed down because of the litigation threat.

Posted by: Maclode

I won't argue.

There’s no Libel or Defamation in having an opinion. As long as it is stated as such, then who’s to say? I would definitely not let it deter you from finding out what the issues are. From the responses I don't think we have had a lawyer respond yet saying it would be illegal. Unless ConnerVT is a lawyer?

And as a note just give the people that have an incidence of scamming recorded the ability to respond in kind to the accusation. That way they have very little recourse, but definitely check the legal issues out before diving in. I am sure there is a way to get it done.

Posted by: fly4fun

Basically the existing anti scam sites are close to worthless. By the time a scammer gets listed she's usually already contacted hundreds of guys. Remember the two I'm talking about STILL are not listed even though they've been reported by numerous guys.

2. Try and get the usual "for profit" agency to remove their cash cow. (not meant as an insult, usa expression)
Not going to happen and there are plenty of examples of this.

Liability issues:
Only the first name is used.
There is no direct linking between the first name and any one lady
No photos
This "first name only" could be thousands in the FSU
The only person making a connection is the person who recognizes the distinct features and location and then it's between him and the person who contacts him on putting the pieces together.
I don't see a problem as I'm not naming anyone or even putting the pieces together...

As far as email addresses is concerned, there are steps which can prevent harvesting.. I'll have more on that later.

Good feedback though. I'm wondering, given what I've given as some info guidelines, if there would have been any specific information that would have alerted you to it being the same person?

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Maclode
I won't argue.

I will.

First, I am not a lawyer. But I have been on both sides of civil lawsuits. You don't have to be in the wrong to have a letter from a lawyer or a summons from the court cause you much financial difficulties and personal anguish. For the price in time, money, and antacid, you will discover why there are so many lawyer jokes.

Now, let's see why this idea won't fly. What is being proposed is a mailing list of guys basically saying "I got an email from Natasha in Lugansk. I think she's a scammer."

"Yeah, I once got a letter from a Natasha. She asked me how much it would cost to go to the US. She's no good..."

There are several reasons anti-scam sites are slow to update. Typically, ALL of the information needs to be filtered, and decisions need to be made what to post, and what not to post. Usually, it's done by one person. Who probably also has a life, so can only dedicate time to his site when it's available.

Why does the data need to be filtered?

Is one source enough to mark someone as a "bad" person? There are a number of strange people out there pursuing RW. What is there to keep all of the guys who were dumped, or had their sexual advances turned down, from saying "Stay away from Natasha"? How about the guys who ask for sexually explicit photos? Or the abusers? The guys who lie about the home they own, when they actually live in their mom's basement? I know a number of people who work in the marriage agency industry. They can give many examples of all of these scenarios that they personally know of. I have a friend (a successful interpretor) who said over half of the men who visited the agency she worked for were not mentally stable. (I'm trying to stay PC in deference to RMP norms).

Now, what are you going to call a scam? The ol' Visa Scam is a classic. But there are many other types of scams out there. The Green Card Girl. The Good Time Girl. The Upgrade Girl. It still is up to each person to use his big head, and not the little one, to make intelligent choices about his life. Just as there are pitfalls to avoid dating women in your own town, the same goes for dating abroad. Would you consider setting up the same operation about women in your city? If not, why?

The Visa Scam is the most visible out there on the Internet. But the good scammers don't use their own names, or even their own photographs. So while she might be blond Natasha this week, by next month, she's Galya and a brunette. Or she may take someones name and photo of an agency site. It's just a right-click away.

To summarize:
-- There is a potential cost factor from legal liability.
-- There will require a large amount of time to manage.
-- The information will come from unknown, unreliable sources.
-- There will be too little information to easily connect similar people.
-- There is potential for abuse by the people you wish to help.
-- There is potential to injure (financially and emotionally) innocent women who are sincerely looking for foreign husband.

Posted by: Khashyar

There were some good points made here.

I would want to assure that any woman who is listed in an anti-scam site is not mistakenly listed as a "scammer."

What would stop a man from making up a story about a woman he has been rejected by, or even fabricating an email?

It would often be difficult to receive the Russian woman's side of the story, since many of them do not speak English.

I think that perhaps an anti-scam website could be done, but it would require a lot of maintainance, and I agree that there could be legal liability.

I believe that if everyone put some sensible protective guidelines into place, then they would almost certainly avoid becoming involved with a dishonest person who is seeking your money.

It is commendable to want to provide a helpful service to others. At the same time, it is also important to make sure to be fair to the woman involved so that she is not falsely accused.

Perhaps it would be like a website posting a list of "potential criminals," based upon recommendations and email evidence from the general public. However, a person can only fairly be labeled as a criminal if they are convicted in a court of law for a crime.

This is why the COPS tv show blurs out the faces of those who have not been convicted of a crime.

So, what fair criteria would you create for convicting a woman of being dishonest and a "scammer?"

I think that accusing someone of a dishonest act, and convicting them based upon solid evidence and a nearly fool-proof procedure, are two different things.

How can you fairly, and without error, decide who is a "scammer" and who is not?

Khashyar

Posted by: Maclode

I definitely think that there is allot of good information here about what it would take to create this type of data base. Maybe scammer is too harsh of a classification? And maybe you wouldn't rely on only one person’s word. I mean if you have a guy, lets say that has contacted 30 or 50 woman and each of the woman say yeah he was supposed to have been seeing them exclusively. And the level of proof is verifiable, what would you call him?

I certainly appreciate the responses, I know not only guys need help concerning disingenuous dealings with the opposite sex. I am still wondering if there is a way to raise a flag without causing huge legal battles, or wrongly accusing someone?

Posted by: fly4fun

The information you all have provided has made me decide to drop the idea. The liability issue can be solved but what determines a scammer would be too difficult to manage.

Some of what has been said just confirms, in my mind at least, that anti scam sites in their current form are a waste of everyone's time.

The criminal/scammer element is unconcerned with liability issues and the anti scam sites sometimes have their own agenda which I guess leaves us on our own.

>>>How can you fairly, and without error, decide who is >>>a "scammer" and who is not?

You can't. Only the victim can prove this and currently there is no way to provide that information or resource to send it to.
An example: One agency refuses to remove any lady until 10 complaints are received with detailed information..Also, the 10 complaints have to originate on their site. Any complaints from men who met the lady on another site do not count toward the 10.
Now I ask you, is that helpful?

Again, thanks for the feedback but this idea will go back into the "wish there was a way" filing cabinet right next to my time machine.. LOL

Bob

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Bob,

You can think about and contemplate whether there is a way to fairly and accurately create that kind of site....

But, if a person has a complaint about a marriage or dating agency, then they can either post a message in this forum, or write a review of the agency in the reviews section so that others can be alerted to your experience.

I believe that you received some good feedback here, and I hope that it was helpful in fleshing out your idea if you decide to create that kind of site in the future...

Khashyar

Posted by: joelunchbox

Maybe I missed something...I thought it would be a good idea for someone to post a picture of their girlfriend when the relationship looked like it was solid. I have posted pictures of mine and if anyone else is writing her I would like to know. This wouldn't involve labeling someone as a scammer. Just as a "two-timer". haha In the beginning, I think everyone, on both sides writes to many people. But, when a two people decide to become a couple or money comes into play...then, writing to others takes on a new meaning.
Also, it could warn others that someone is "spoken for" and let them know beforehand that their letters are not appreciated.

Posted by: ConnerVT

I hope you are getting your GF permission to post her picture on the Internet. Many RW are very private, and may not be as pleased about it as you might think (actually, this is a common European attitude).

Also, the mentality of many are that there isn't a mutually exclusive relationship until both people have actually agreed on it. Others believe that it isn't so until marriage. And there will be women who won't believe you will be faithful after marriage, no matter what you promise. Are all of there perceptions about relationships wrong, and your opinion the only correct one?

And posting a picture, and seeing it come back to you will not prove anything either. Here, I'll attach a picture of the woman I've been writing to (don't tell my wife!

). I think she's pretty nice. Has anyone else been writing to her?

(See? I stole your picture, even though Khashyar has right-click disabled. Took me about 30 seconds. What if a scammer stole this picture, and started writing to men. Would you dump her because of what other men say? They would be telling you the truth, this is the picture they received...)

(edit: OK, I chnged the picture as you asked. But I liked the other one better...

)

Posted by: joelunchbox

You bring up a good point...we can't trust each other....
Also, I didn't ask her permission...that makes me a bad boy. I am very proud of her but...that is no excuse.
will rectify that ASAP
And will you be a gentleman and remove her picture from your post. thanks much!

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
(See? I stole your picture, even though Khashyar has right-click disabled. Took me about 30 seconds.

Yes.... I disabled the right click button in the photo galleries and the reviews section, just to slow down photo theft, but as you know, there are other ways to get around that if you have some knowledge of websites

I can remove the photo, Conner, since Joelunchbox wants to ask his girlfriend's permission as to whether to post the photo or not....

It is very easy to steal a person's identity online.... In fact, any of us can find and post a photo of a woman, and behave as if we were that woman. That's one of the reason's, as we have mentioned many times on this site, that speaking on the phone with a person, as well as sending a letter by post and meeting in person significantly reduces the risk of being defrauded.

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
(edit: OK, I chnged the picture as you asked. But I liked the other one better... )

Hey.... that was my second choice behind Lena.... I wrote her for several months, but then I found out that she really lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and that she wasn't Russian at all!!

(I almost posted her photo on a scammer's website, but then she threatened to sue me if I revealed her secret

)

Khashyar

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by Khashyar
Hey.... that was my second choice behind Lena.... I wrote her for several months, but then I found out that she really lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and that she wasn't Russian at all!!

She is a sweetie, isn't she?

As you have seen, I already changed the picture for Joe (for those of you joining in, that's not Joe's friend. His friend is exponentially prettier.)

But this thread has me thinking...

Why don't we see websites wanting to protect us from those emails we get from the niece of the former Minister of Finance of Nigeria? Or from the college coed who just put a web cam in their sorority's shower?

Because no one thinks that those pills will make their manhood grow 4 inches longer. Or that they just won $260,000,000.000 Euro in some lottery they didn't enter.

But guys are weak when it comes to an innocent young woman. All rational thinking goes out the window when a sweet girl begins to flirt. We feel guilty that we may want to be a man. Then we become angry when we are fooled. But we deserve to be angry at only ourselves, not at anyone else.

If you consider writing to people you do not know, any rational person will understand that there is a potential to come in contact with a scam. That is the purpose of conducting a search for the right person for you. You should meet a lot of the wrong persons. You need to stay objective, and recognize the whole situation. You need to be aware of potential dangers, and avoid/prepare for them.

This isn't easy. If you can find true love by just turning around any corner, it wouldn't be of much value, would it?

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
If you consider writing to people you do not know, any rational person will understand that there is a potential to come in contact with a scam. That is the purpose of conducting a search for the right person for you. You should meet a lot of the wrong persons. You need to stay objective, and recognize the whole situation. You need to be aware of potential dangers, and avoid/prepare for them.

This isn't easy. If you can find true love by just turning around any corner, it wouldn't be of much value, would it?

I agree, Conner....

This process of finding the right person for marriage takes more time, care and patience than anyone realizes or anticipates at the beginning of their search.

Khashyar

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by fly4fun
Thought I'd throw this out there and get some feedback on an idea I've been tossing around.
I've got a fairly good background in web design etc and thought about starting a site where men could post a lady's first name, age, location, hair color and their own email address.
In this way a man could find out if anyone else had been in contact with a lady that matched.

This idea came about after it came to light that some of us were corresponding with the same ladies and they all turned out to be scammers. One would have saved thousands of dollars if he'd known in advance.
Even the basic information I've listed above would have thrown up a red flag enough for someone to ask.

None of the referenced ladies were on any scam watch site.

What does everyone think of this idea and any suggestions on format would help..

No personal information on the lady would be posted and no direct links to her ad. This would be something that would have to take place between men via email.

Here is only one thing left to say - GET A LIFE!

Posted by: Khashyar

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
Here is only one thing left to say - GET A LIFE!

Inlove....

It doesn't mean that he doesn't have a life just because he wants to open a website about fraudulent dating.

I know that some Russians feel offended at the idea of an "anti-scam" website, and I agree that some of them do not treat the Russian women and Western men fairly and equally.

But, it seems to be that fly4fun has pretty good intentions.

Khashyar