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Scam???
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Posted by: Maclode

I have been sending to a person. I am suspicious that it could be a scam of some sort. This is the latest message (out of 5) I recieved from her/him/it. She is asking for my phone number??? not sure what to do. I was listed on yahoo personals and was contacted by this person from a guest profile. I am starting to think this is a scam. What do you think.

Greetings, Jeff!

Jeff as I am happy to receive from you the letter again. I am given
with huge pleasure to read your electronic letters.
Jeff when I read them I mentally I present your image and I hear your
fine man's voice. I very much want to hear your voice.
I think, as you want to hear my voice also.
Jeff if you write to me the phone number in the following electronic
letter whenever possible I can call you in the near future?
And then we can, hear each other. Under your letters it seems to me,
that you have very pleasant voice.
But, there is one small problem. Unfortunately, I have no phone in my
apartment. You, probably, will not believe me, but it is the truth.
At us in Russia it is possible. What to install a telephone houses it
would be necessary to rise in turn behind it.
As many want to have phone, but the telephone company one and it does
not cope with such amount of works.
And to have for a long time to wait for the turn. This turn moves ahead
very slowly.
But I want you to please, approximately in some months our turn
approaches on installation of a telephony and we shall have phone of a house.
The cellular telephone at me too is not present as it costs even more
expensively and many money is necessary to pay for its use.
I cannot afford such luxury, in Russia solvent and rich people use
cellular telephones only.
As to phone on work this variant also is unacceptable. Because our boss
does not allow to use to us phone for the personal purposes.
I have thought and have decided, that I shall call to you from
Telegraph. I think, that it is the optimal variant. What do you think of it,
Jeff?
It is more than all from seasons to me the spring is pleasant. I wrote
to you it in the last letters then summer autumn and winter. And at you
what most favourite season?
Jeff, I heard, that at you in the country mark Festival of Spring. It
is the truth? It would be interesting to me find out about it!
Spring for me the most favorable season because blossom not only
flowers, but also my soul!
In the spring my soul sings with happiness, and heart would like love!
As well as each woman, it would be desirable love in the spring. Now I
feel, that there is one person who can take a place in my heart. Jeff
how you think who it?
The majority of my girlfriends is already married and have children. I
already for a long time am ready to beginning the wife and mother. In
my opinion, I have enough lived for myself.
I very much like the big families, feasts, the common family holidays.
I too dream of the big family. In my opinion, it is dream of each
woman.
Also I want to tell to you, that my girlfriends tried to acquaint me
with friends to the husbands or with fellow workers. But they did not
like me.
I have told to girlfriends about you. And they are very glad for me
because they want to see me happy.
Also I consulted to my parents about my acquaintance to you through the
Internet. They estimate it positively because they care of my future
life. And they want, that I was happy.
I have told him, that you are the good and decent person. Therefore
they are pleased with our correspondence through the Internet.
But I do not want to hurry event. First we should learn well each
other. Whether not so, Jeff? It is very important for me.
Therefore through our electronic letters we should learn about each
other more to not make a mistake at once. I hope, you will understand me
correctly, Jeff?
Jeff, do not overlook to write in the following letter to me your phone
number that I could call you. Well, Jeff? It will be very pleasant for
me to hear your voice!
On it I finish the letter and I speak you. Good-bye!
Sincerely yours the Russian friend, Olesya!

Posted by: ConnerVT

Too little to tell. As long as you keep your wallet in your pocket, it's difficult to get scammed, right?

I personally believe that Yahoo Personals is the most likely place to be contacted by scammers (both foreign and domestic). In your profile, did you indicate that you would be interested in women from another country? If not, why would she write you in the first place? (No need to answer, just do a little self evaluation).

While it's true that there are many homes without wired telephones, there are still many that do have a telephone. And most people without wired telephones rely on cell phones (my in-laws did for many years, until we help fund the installation).

Quote:

The cellular telephone at me too is not present as it costs even more expensively and many money is necessary to pay for its use. I cannot afford such luxury, in Russia solvent and rich people use cellular telephones only.

You see many young people with cell phones on the street in Russia, perhaps more than I see in the US. So this statement doesn't ring 100% true to me. If time on a cell phone seems expensive, it is even more expensive to call from Russia to the US. I just recently purchased a calling card from the telephone company in Tver, Russia, and the price of a call was $0.05/min USD, with a $0.39 connection fee. This is more that the corresponding price of most Russian cell phone fees.

But what harm is giving her your telephone number. You probably are listed in the local telephone book in your town/city, Worst she could do is make crank telephone calls at all hours of the night.

From this letter, I can tell she has some English skills, and supplements them with an electronic translator (or someone is translating it for her). It would be an interesting telephone call.

Remember, very little bad can happen, as long as you keep your wallet in your pocket until you have met.

Posted by: Maclode

What is a telegraph that she mentions in the letter? Is that some sort of payphone for international calls?

Posted by: Jason

One girl that I knew in Russia used to go to some sort of telephone company office and call me from there. Perhaps that is what this person means by "telegraph."

Just from looking at that letter, it doesn't necessarily seem like a scam to me. The only potential red-flag could be that it is a setup for asking you for money to pay her telephone installation fees. The story is usually that for some reason she has the opportunity to get her phone installed next week, instead of waiting many months. However, she needs to ask you for money because she had been saving up and was expecting to have a couple more months to get all the money together. She promises to pay you back though...and gee, won't it be wonderful for you to be able to call her whenever you want! She'll write with her *new* phone number as soon as she gets your money and the phone gets installed.

If it goes that route, then move on. But in the meantime, why not give her your number and see if she calls?

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
You see many young people with cell phones on the street in Russia, perhaps more than I see in the US. So this statement doesn't ring 100% true to me. .

Exactly!

I was suprised by how many 5 year old kids I saw with cell phones while I was waiting at the airport in Moscow.

I would have thought these were their PARENTS phones but their parents also had cell phones too!

It just amazed me. There are more kids and young people in Russia with cell phones than here.

Posted by: Maclode

Thank you for all the replies, I am going to ask for her personal info to try and see how will she would accept a letter, and also to get as much information about her. I need to varify her personal information so I can feel comfortable about progressing.

She says she works "as the bookkeeper in small Orenburg firm Askoda on manufacture of wooden doors." I wonder if anyone has the ability to verify this company exsists? And the next train of thought is if anyone could verify there is an actual person named Olesya works as a book keeper there. Yeah I know but it was worth a try hehe.

If what she says is true. I am wondering what airport can get you the closest, and economical, in the event things progress to that point. I would need to see her first before I could make any further comitment.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by Maclode
What is a telegraph that she mentions in the letter? Is that some sort of payphone for international calls?

I don't see anything bad YET but pay attention. My guess on the "telegraph" is that she plans to go to the local post office where she can make an Int'l call and pay by the minute. (Liliya and I did this in Moscow to let my parents know that she had gotten the visa). Any idea what city/town/village she is from? If, in fact it is a village, there is every chance that what she says about the phones is 100% truthful and the cost would *seem* much higher to her, than if she lived in a city.

[edit: to add...]
A quick google revealed the following websites:
http://www.orenburg.ru/ russian only-regional website
http://www.orenburgairlines.ru/ local airline that has regular flights to Moscow

An overview of the region (from russiantrek.com)
Overview:
Geographical Features: Orenburgskaya region is situated in the boundary of Europe and Asia in the basin of the middle current of the Ural. It has boundaries with Kazakhstan, Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Chelyabinskaya, Samarskaya and Saratovskaya regions. It is one of the largest regions of the RF. Area of the region is 124 thousand sq. km. It is bigger than area of Latvia, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, Austria, Portugal. Belgium. Length from west to east is 750 km.
More...

Population: 2,223,400

Economy: Its territory is rich in mineral resources: over 2,500 deposits of 75 different raw materials have been discovered and developed. Oil, charcoal, ferrous and non-ferrous metals are the key deposits. The oblast is second only to Yamal-Nenets in the extraction of gas. More than three fourths of the oblast's output comes from industry, which is dominated by the fuel and energy complex, metallurgy, machine construction, and chemicals. The oblast is located on the crossroads of numerous railroads and highways making it an important transportation hub. The country's major gas and oil pipelines, connecting Siberian gas and oil fields to the European part of Russia and other European countries, cross its territory.

Culture: In the region there are 7 professional theatres: Regional Theatre of Drama named after M. Gorky, Theatre of Musical Comedy, Tatar Dramatic Theatre named after M. Faizy, Puppet Theatre.

Administrative division: Orenburgskaya region is divided into 35 districts, 12 towns, 1768 settlements. Population of the region is 2.2 million people, representatives of more than 80 nationalities: Russians - 72%, Tatars - 7%, Kazakhs - 5% and others live in the region.

Brief History:

Originally the territory of modern Orenburg Oblast was home to several nomadic tribes, including the Kalmyks, Skiffs, and Tatars, who later moved westward.
The Russian state took control of the region in the 16-17th centuries, though intensive migration to the area from the country's western territories began only in the 1830s.
In 1743, the present oblast capital, Orenburg, was founded on the confluence of the Yaik and Sakmara rivers, and immediately became the main administrative and trade center of the area.
Current situation: Today the oblast is one of the country's most important industrial and agricultural regions.

Posted by: Maclode

You have been a real help. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and keep my eyes and ears open, so to speak. My heart is pumping, I want to tread carefully, because at best it's a caring human being on the other side, at worse I have potential con in the begining stages. I am really glad this site and you folks are here.

Thank you
Jeff

Posted by: GreenBarb

She seems to be a level headed girl so I would not go shooting her just yet. Even at the end ofthe letter she says that you should take your time to get to know each other even before you meet. I would see no harm in you giving her your number. Nor has she hinted that she is looking for assistance for the phone at her house. Just that she has to wait for it.
Sometimes it is a case nothing ventured nothing gained. You will have to deside for yourself.

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel.

So this lady has no phone, i feel this is normal and so what if she telephones you in your country.

Its normal, Russians have much pride and when you meet, you will feel this ladies love, money can never buy this.

Regards.

Neil

Posted by: Maclode

Well I will give anyone who�s interested an update to how this unravels. And I will give of course the details and facts. I will add that she has asked for my address also. I took the opportunity to ask for hers in return. I now have her full name and address. It's not looking good at this point; I won't make a hasty decision at this time though. I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

I probably posted this in the wrong forum; I'll leave it at that.
Thank you for all the responses, again I am glad this site is here.

Posted by: cj2005

Looks like a form letter where they strategically place the name Jeff throughout the letter. When you write letters, how many times do you put their first name in letter? At the beginning, like Hello Jeff, and then you normally write a letter. You usually do not have to keep repeating their first name, as the reciever already knows it applies to them with the opening hello. Smells like a scam to me.

Posted by: Maclode

Quote:

Originally posted by cj2005
Looks like a form letter where they strategically place the name Jeff throughout the letter. When you write letters, how many times do you put their first name in letter? At the beginning, like Hello Jeff, and then you normally write a letter. You usually do not have to keep repeating their first name, as the reciever already knows it applies to them with the opening hello. Smells like a scam to me.

You are currect on your assumptions it was a form letter. It was a visa request, I had been answering the last three letters with questions that were never answered. I also was relaying I was planing to travel to see her if she wanted me to come, she never answered and just started talking about getting a visa. I was talking to a form letter.

Thanks for the help

Posted by: nmnative

This same girl began writing to me a couple months ago. It was the EXACT same letter. She also sent me 5 or 6 photos. I played along until she actually called me at 3:am my time. She is the classic scammer!

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by cj2005
When you write letters, how many times do you put their first name in letter? At the beginning, like Hello Jeff, and then you normally write a letter. You usually do not have to keep repeating their first name, as the reciever already knows it applies to them with the opening hello.

Not to say anything about this woman, but your statement is not completely correct.

A native English speaker will write as you describe. The rules for a Russian speaker tend to be a bit different. (Other native Russian speakers can post and tell me if I'm correct or not).

Most Russians I've spoken with tend to use a persons name more often than English speakers. This may come from it being impolite to use he/she instead of a person's name when they are present. (Example: You and your fiancée Olga are visiting another friend, Anna. Anna would ask you, "Would Olga like some tea also?" rather than saying, "Would she like some tea also?")

Russian also conjugates many words to imply who is being spoken about. Asking you if "You understand?", a speaker may drop the equivalent of "you" from their sentence and just say "Ponimayete?" If they were surprised that you comprehended it, they might emphasize the word you and say "Vy ponimayete?" (as in You understand?).

There are many little differences between the languages that go much further than vocabulary and grammar. Don't get too hung up on trying to read more into a letter than what is written. I've been married to a RW for over a year now, and while her English improves daily, there are many instances where I think I understand what she tells me, only to find out I was completely mistaken...

Posted by: Maclode

I have been contacted by no less then 5 people; I am assuming they are women. Well anyway all the letters appear the same in allot of aspects, not word for word, but the language nuances and grammar are similar. I have received all of these contacts from a yahoo personals profile. I don't even answer them any more, I saw the scam coming thankfully. I always offered to go over there first to meet, they always ignore that, thats how I know. I have to say for me to receive 5 contacts like this in the span of a month makes me wonder how many guys are stupid enough to send the girls money?

Posted by: ConnerVT

Certainly enough to make it profitable for some. Let's take a step back, and look at it as a business.

First, it is a fishing expedition. Log on to a personals site, and start harvesting email addresses. Target middle aged men, preferably divorced. In one night, it shouldn't be difficult to gather 50 or more.

Next, send them all a short introduction letter, with your most recent (fraudulent) profile. Of course, the profile should be tailored to push all the right buttons -- young, but not too young; innocent sexiness, and in need to be rescued. Good to list a profession that makes you seem caring and family oriented -- kindergarten teachers and nurses seem to get men's attention.

Do this for one week, and you will have over 300 intro letters out there. Perhaps follow each one up 2-3 days later with a longer follow-up letter.

Even a 2% response rate will put 5-6 fish on the hook. If you can land just one with the classic visa scam, they make a nice monthly wage of $300-400 USD.

That's the home business version. I've heard of operations that have grown even bigger. Someone will get DSL service and 4-10 computers, and hire girls to do basically what I described above. The girls will make a small hourly wage (depending on how much correspondence they generate) and receive a commission on monies received from AM. These operations may have templates and pre-written letters (as well as a picture library) for the women, and help them respond to typical (and not so typical) situations. Some even have IRC and video chat setups.

What makes this lucrative is the difference in wages between the West and the FSU. There are many men where $300 is an amount that they are willing to gamble. For many in the FSU, that's a nice paycheck...

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT: Most Russians I've spoken with tend to use a persons name more often than English speakers. This may come from it being impolite to use he/she instead of a person's name when they are present.

Conner--- I have noticed the same trend in my writing. When I first start writing someone I tend to use her name frequently as I get comfortable with her.

Goodness, that changes the nature of the writing! Suddenly they drop my name throughout the letter. Brad do you . . . Brad you should see . . . Brad-this/Brad-that.