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Sovjet vs. Russia / political
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Posted by: Jutman

Hi

I asked her a question about the comparison between Sovjet and todays Russia. What was best !!!

Her answer:
Not a simple question. Because soem people has it better and some people worse. In moscow many has it better and in her city, many has it worse.
(she was referring to economics)
But she also she the benefits from a free country with full shops, but not many has money to but them. I could visit her, likely not an option during sovet time. However in thoose days, she would not have need me.

I did ask, if she could choose, what she would like. She instantly said: sovjet time - but after some few secs she hesitated. Then she staed again. For MY city, the sovjet time, but was not sure for the entire Russia.

Note: she was 15 when Russia emerged from Sovjet.

COMMENTS:
I was actually not surprised over her answer. Russia has failed to convert a socialist economy into a (european) socialdemocratic economy. Instead some annoying american Ivy league dudes with ZERO knowledge ofa socialist economy has been given advice. The result we see today. A economy there is not working, however after 12 years, it seems the Russian are beginning to learn politics and managemed by themself and adjust it to Russian culture. But because of a bad first decade, Russia needs sevearl dececades before she is back on the track.

So therefore I was not surprised that my intelligent lady was able to differentied her answer after social relations, geography and national relations. In total, she gave a flexible answer to a difficult question.

Posted by: Harry

Hi Jutman!

I've talked about this with my GF too - she told me that often it's older people who feel worse now and wish they could return to Soviet days while the younger generation want to move forward. Their reasons for missing the Soviet regime are partly economic but also she mentioned that there was a feeling that you could rely upon the state (and also blame the state) rather than rely upon yourself. I suppose that's the nature of pure socialism.

Maybe as the quality of life improves the older generation will begin to feel more comfortable. But sadly, maybe something uniquely "Russian" will be lost if these improvements happen in a bad way.

I know you're a college professor of economics, so have you made a special study of Eastern European economics? I'm just wondering how Russians are adjusting the existing system to reflect Russian culture? What special conditions exist there that need to be included?

-Harry

Posted by: Khashyar

Interesting thread, Harry and Brian...

I have also heard that older Russians often are nostalgic about the perception of "security" and safety that the Soviet times seemed to offer them.

I think that generally, many Belarusians at least are unhappy about their economy (and I believe that this also applies to Russians as well)...

I read something interesting in a National Geographic Magazine story about the new Russia where a young Russian computer entrepreneur said that although the Russian economy is going through growing pains right now, that it cannot copy the Western (or U.S.) form of Capitalism, and that an economic system must emerge that is unique to Russia, and that this period of difficulty is a normal process of Russia "finding itself" and developing into a butterfly from it's post-Soviet cocoon.

Russia is in the process of finding which economic system fits its history and current situation best.

I actually have confidence that Russia will develop a strong economy in the next few decades, because Russia has the resources (like oil), the educated populous, and desire to work hard that is required for a strong economic nation.

Khashyar

Posted by: golek

One reason the older generation are nostalgic for the Soviet times is that in the New Economy they must live on a pension that is not worth anything in today's rubles and therefore most are dependent on their children to support them. What parent wants to be a burden on their kids?

It's a bad situation. One would hope, as time passes and people are spending an ever greater portion of their working lives in the New Economy this problem would diminish. Unfortunately, I understand that the payroll system in much of the Russian economy will only slow such a trend. According to my fiancee whose profession is a recruiter and HR manager, most employees in Russia get two types of wages: official wages and black wages.

Official wages are reported to the government which means taxes and pension premiums come out of this. Black wages are paid to the employee under the table and no taxes or pension premiums come out of this income. Many companies set it up so that most of an employee's income is black money. This is good for the employer because they save money. They don't have to pay taxes on the black payroll and if they fire someone they don't have to pay severence on the black portion of the employee's monthly income, only the official portion.

For the employee, it seems OK that they take home more money each month because taxes are deducted only from the official wages. However, when they retire, their pension will be based only on what their official income was throughout their working life.

Unfortunately, this system will ensure that future generations will also face old age with puny pensions and thus, like their parents find themselves dependent on their children for support.

Remember we are talking about a society that looks to the government to provide everything. As an American, I'd love for my employer to pay me black wages. It would allow me to sock away a greater portion of my income in investments of my choosing. When I talk about investing to my fiancee, I get the feeling she doesn't understand what I'm talking about. It's a different mindset.

Posted by: golek

I read an article that suggested this problem might be changing. Here's a quote:

"Today, the impoverishment coefficient is significantly lower. A sizable portion of the population now wants to show their income, or at least a part of it. They want to go on vacation, and foreign embassies ask about the income of Russian tourists. They need to buy an apartment, and the tax police could ask where they obtained the cash."

Read the full article here

Also read more about hidden incomes in this essay by a Russian economist.

Posted by: Jill

My husband also still dreams of Soviet times. For him, there is no greater insult than to call someone a "capitalist"--it is the same as saying that he is morally bankrupt.

I was kind of suprised actually because I thought it was mainly older people who feel this nostalgia, but my husband is only 28. Also, he is not impoverished, he owns a nice (privatized) apartment, and hasn't at all suffered as a result of the fall of communism. Still, he insists that life was MUCH better then. Maybe it's just childhood that he misses

Posted by: Arnold_2

Quote:

Originally posted by Jill
My husband also still dreams of Soviet times. For him, there is no greater insult than to call someone a "capitalist"--it is the same as saying that he is morally bankrupt.

Hello Jill!

Happy retirement!

I see, you have just turned Senior Member!

I must agree with your hubby the term "capitalist" is synonymous for "exploitive", actually even worse, more like "slavery"!

Actually, owning something does not make you by default a capitalist, unless you use it to exploit others.

I assume, this term will become one of his most favorite, once he starts living over here!

Best Wishes, Arnold

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

I think that Russia needs to get away from the Soviet past and tradition and get back to its pre-revolionary, pre-Bolshevik heritage, when Russia most resembled a relatively normal country. Russia was, after all, the first country and people occupied by the Soviets.

Posted by: Jutman

Quote:

Russia was, after all, the first country and people occupied by the Soviets.

Interesting idea!! Unfortunately for Russia, there is no easy way.