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RW and Virginity

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Posted by: guinda

yesterday I was chatting with a ukranian girl on yahoo messenger. she was 20 and a medical student. I found her quite accidentally.
she said that she had never had a boyfriend, she had never had sex and she was a virgin. she said that, she had decided to stay a virgin because "her future husband will be proud of her and will love her more". and she was interested in marrying a foreign man.
I just wanted to know, to what extent this idea is common among russian girls.
is this the way all of them think?
at what age do they normally lose their virginity and to who?
here in europe usually girls experience sex at 16.


Posted by: tonton

I would call ********. Another board has an article stating that virginity is lost in FSU countries the same thereabouts as your country, and mine I suppose.

It could be true but unlikely IMHO.

Especially as she brought this up in first conversation with you. I couldn't imagine anyone saying they were a virgin during first talk, then again, I am an old man of 34....


Posted by: guinda

I know what you mean tonton.
i'm not a kid. i'm 32 and have seen many women.
I asked her if she was virgin ot not.
i don't know why. i was a lil bit drunk.
do you think she lied just to make me like her?
that's foolish.


Posted by: rtking

I know of a few girls who tell me that they are still virgins. Oddly enough, they're medical students also (but in Kiev, Ukraine.) I would say that the great minority of women remain virgins (much like in the United States) but some hold strong to their ethics.

Bob


Posted by: guinda

maybe because they are medical students they can restore their hymen if need be.I mean a few weeks before getting married. LOL


Posted by: Khashyar

My impressions are that Ukrainian women tend to be more old fashioned when it comes to sex than Russian women.

I am not sure if this is related to the fact that Ukrainians tend to be more religious than Russians.

I would believe that a Ukrainian women could still be a virgin in her 20s if she has more traditional values.

Khashyar


Posted by: ConnerVT

Hey... I'm a virgin also.

Prove otherwise.

(Unless you have a copy of the video I haven't heard of yet... )


Posted by: jpierce55

I can't say with any certainty on anything here. I do know that every Ukrainian woman I have emailed asks if I have had many girlfriends in the past, because they don't want to be one of many.


Posted by: ConnerVT

Many girlfriends?


Posted by: Jill

It's VERY uncommon for a 20 year old Ukrainian woman to be a virgin. Some are, of course, but they are in the minority.

Quote:
maybe because they are medical students they can restore their hymen if need be.I mean a few weeks before getting married.


But you know, this has become almost fashionable! There are plenty of advertisements for this procedure in Kiev. I don't know how many people actually do it, though...Or why they do it....


Posted by: andrei

Virgins over 20yo are such a minority they can hardly be found.

My personal opinion is that having sex before 16 is damaging to your psychic health while not having it after 25 is damaging to your physical health. Luckily most of the girls here think the same and lose their virginity mostly in the last schoolyear or the first to second college year (around 17-20 yo). My girlfriend when I first asked "When did you become a woman?" she said "At 18, with an experienced young man". I said why exactly 18 she said "I've read enough books so I knew what I was doing". She also made fun of me when I told her that my first sex partner was a rookie too. She said "You two must've had lots of haemorrhoid (problems) with it!!"

RUSSIAN GIRLS RULE THIS


Posted by: andrei

Quote:
Originally posted by Jill
It's VERY uncommon for a 20 year old Ukrainian woman to be a virgin. Some are, of course, but they are in the minority.



But you know, this has become almost fashionable! There are plenty of advertisements for this procedure in Kiev. I don't know how many people actually do it, though...Or why they do it....


They do it because they've been whores in the past and now they want to shade that from their richie-rich future husbands. The other trick they use is tearing all relationships with friends from the past: when walking in the street with her husband and bumping into one of her former "lovers" she pretends not to know him and walks away in a hurry. I have heard about that a lot.

I know that because I've been on the other side of that business: had sex with a couple of girls who were married to rich dumbheads. They used to make fun out of their spouses.


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
not having it after 25 is damaging to your physical health.


Andrei makes a very interesting point. I have heard MANY Russian/Ukrainian women say the same thing: that if you don't have sex regularly past a certain age (say, 25) that you will have health problems. I remember a friend of mine was in the hospital a while back for some kind of sugery for "female problems" (I never figured out the exact nature), and she told me that the doctor had explained to her that these problems resulted from not having sex regularly (she was divorced). A doctor told her this! So this belief is fairly common....


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally posted by Jill
Andrei makes a very interesting point. I have heard MANY Russian/Ukrainian women say the same thing: that if you don't have sex regularly past a certain age (say, 25) that you will have health problems. I remember a friend of mine was in the hospital a while back for some kind of sugery for "female problems" (I never figured out the exact nature), and she told me that the doctor had explained to her that these problems resulted from not having sex regularly (she was divorced). A doctor told her this! So this belief is fairly common....


By that same rationale, that would mean that [supposedly] a lot of Americans have or will have those [alleged] health problems.

"the doctor had explained to her that these problems resulted from not having sex regularly (she was divorced). A doctor told her this! So this belief is fairly common...."


Whaaaat!

So, what do that say about the many women in waiting? The ones waiting for their visas, etc...

Do you realize what that implies???

Hmmmm, makes you think!


Posted by: guinda

But you know, this has become almost fashionable! There are plenty of advertisements for this procedure in Kiev. I don't know how many people actually do it, though...Or why they do it.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Jill,
why has it become fashionable? why do they care about their virginity?
do russian men really care about the virginity of their wives?
i cannot beleive Andrei's view that only whores do this.
there must be a religious or old cultural tradition behind it.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally posted by guinda

Quote:
Originally posted by Jill
But you know, this has become almost fashionable! There are plenty of advertisements for this procedure in Kiev. I don't know how many people actually do it, though...Or why they do it....


Jill,
why has it become fashionable? why do they care about their virginity?
do russian men really care about the virginity of their wives?
i cannot beleive Andrei's view that only whores do this.
there must be a religious or old cultural tradition behind it. [/B]


I understand the reasons why Andrei says that.

In Russia, particularly in Moscow, there are a lot of Ukrainian prostitutes. This is because economically Ukraine is worse than Russia.

For these women, in particular, they want to hide their indescretions from their future husbands.

Because of the large numbers of Ukrainian prostitutes in Russia it has become a bit of a joke among Russians.

There was a comedy T.V. show there where the couple is a foreign man married to a former prostitute (Ukrainian). The premise behind the show was that he doesn't know about her past.

So, yes, that proceedure may be done by some women but not for "cultural" or "religious" reasons but rather as a way to conceal their past.

It just depends. I think it is an available proceedure but not necessarily one that is frequently performed, in much the saw way as "penis enlargment surgery" is here in the U.S., etc.. It is available but how many people do it????? Not many! (At least, I don't think so )


Posted by: GreenBarb

I think what the Doctor was talking about were FIBROIDS. The things is even with a married woman who has sexual intercourse with her Husband regularly, this will not stop the growth of Fobroids.
Just a bit of medical fact.


Posted by: povlhp

here in Denmark, where even 12 y.o. is on the pill, the average sexual debut age is around 16 y.o. But there are many that debuts much later. Typically the ones going to university etc.

So I would guess it is not that difficult to find a 20+ woman who is a virgin. I do not care much about that, I even picked one who had been married.


Posted by: guinda

povlhp,
there is some controversy in your short message.
you wrote in Denmark even 12yos are on pills.
and many are still virgin at 20+.
how could it be?


Posted by: povlhp

The fact that some are on the pill as 12 y.o. tells more about their problems than about the population in average.

Half the women has sex at age 16 or ealier (legal limit is 15).

So that still leaves half the population to have sex at a later stage.


Posted by: freebird

I wonder if anyone else here has read Elena Petrova's book about finding a Russian/Ukrainian bride? I was rather surprised (after hearing about sex tourists etc.) it seems that she says in her book that if you go to meet your FSU lady, (who you have been corresponding with for some time) that she will EXPECT you to try to make a move, and might be worried/disappionted if you don't. Apparentlt ELENA says the women might think 1.) you can't perform 2.) you aren't attracted to her or 3.) you are not a passionate person.

I'm curious to hear what others think about this issue, its not my intent to go there and try to jump in the sack right away, but now I'm wondering if I try to be gracious & polite I might give off the wrong vibes?


Posted by: ham

forget all that self-appointed gurus proclaim.
Treat women with respect & see what happens.
Most of these "revelation" manuals ( of which 74 exist ) all tell a slightly different story and the only truth is: they are another "turn $10 into $1000 in three days with our 'secret forex trading scheme of the wealthy' ".
You'd be surprised how many people made a fortune selling worthless "manuals".
Come think to it, it it were only half true, you wouldn't have all these failed relationships, and counsellors would be out of job...
Women aren't computers...there is no manual.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
I wonder if anyone else here has read Elena Petrova's book about finding a Russian/Ukrainian bride? I was rather surprised (after hearing about sex tourists etc.) it seems that she says in her book that if you go to meet your FSU lady, (who you have been corresponding with for some time) that she will EXPECT you to try to make a move, and might be worried/disappionted if you don't. Apparentlt ELENA says the women might think 1.) you can't perform 2.) you aren't attracted to her or 3.) you are not a passionate person.

I'm curious to hear what others think about this issue, its not my intent to go there and try to jump in the sack right away, but now I'm wondering if I try to be gracious & polite I might give off the wrong vibes?



Hey Freebird. They are the same as women anywhere...treat them as such. They will give you the subtle hints ...and if they do they will expect you to follow them.

I do agree with Elena in the fact that once a relationship is underway they will wantto check that there is some starch in the collar before total commitment.

Sure not all women are the same...but it gets me that guys looking for a woman in their 30's would assume there are many virgins left???? Would there be many in your own backyard.....theres bugger all in mine i can tell you. They are no different in many ways from the women at home in this regard. Cheers Mate


Posted by: Texas Proud

Who dug up THIS old thread!!!!

Take Russian out of the sentence and then think... is this correct???

I know of women HERE who think that way... but.. and here is the BIG one... they will not have sex with you until they are good and ready... I asked one and she said she wanted to know that he was interested, but was not a slut..


Posted by: freebird

Sure not all women are the same...but it gets me that guys looking for a woman in their 30's would assume there are many virgins left???? Would there be many in your own backyard.....theres bugger all in mine i can tell you. They are no different in many ways from the women at home in this regard. Cheers Mate[/QUOTE]

Hey Ira, thanks for the input (btw - you live in the only state of OZ that I HAVEN'T been to! Actually, I started going to the Russian church here about 7 years ago (w/ my GF at the time) they are really modest and most of them WILL wait until marriage! I was hanging out with people from that church etc., so I don't know as much about what RW over there would be thinking. By the way its not Orthodox, I understand most RW are over there but not very serious.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Sure not all women are the same...but it gets me that guys looking for a woman in their 30's would assume there are many virgins left???? Would there be many in your own backyard.....theres bugger all in mine i can tell you. They are no different in many ways from the women at home in this regard. Cheers Mate


Hey Ira, thanks for the input (btw - you live in the only state of OZ that I HAVEN'T been to! Actually, I started going to the Russian church here about 7 years ago (w/ my GF at the time) they are really modest and most of them WILL wait until marriage! I was hanging out with people from that church etc., so I don't know as much about what RW over there would be thinking. By the way its not Orthodox, I understand most RW are over there but not very serious.[/QUOTE]


Hey Freebird...Sure you will find that with any type of woman that way inclined religiously......weather they are catholic baptist orthodox ect. But it would be like saying that because you are a Baptist who attends church and frequents baptist women....that most women in the US who are over 30 and not married are virgins or at least very sexually conservative.

I think the only thing i noticed would be that they are not as open discussing sex at first....but that is a Russian cultural thing and applies to almost everything not just sex.

I think most would agree that there wouldnt be a great deal of difference statisticly between Russian and Western women that are over say 25 and not had sex. Just my opinion. Cheers Mate.

PS Most Australians havent been here either...he he


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
I wonder if anyone else here has read Elena Petrova's book about finding a Russian/Ukrainian bride? I was rather surprised (after hearing about sex tourists etc.) it seems that she says in her book that if you go to meet your FSU lady, (who you have been corresponding with for some time) that she will EXPECT you to try to make a move, and might be worried/disappionted if you don't. Apparentlt ELENA says the women might think 1.) you can't perform 2.) you aren't attracted to her or 3.) you are not a passionate person.

I'm curious to hear what others think about this issue, its not my intent to go there and try to jump in the sack right away, but now I'm wondering if I try to be gracious & polite I might give off the wrong vibes?

well and what dose it really mean from males' viewpoint if you meet a woman and does not make any "move"
a) you can;t perform
b)she is not attrative to you
c) you are not pssionate persone


As for virginity then from my humble opinion women have sex because of love. A persone who managed not to fall in love with anybody to her 25-30s obviouse does have some psyhological issues


Posted by: freebird

Hi Ellen, I have no problems in any of those departments But I just am trying to find out what the cultural norms and expectations are. (Like in Elena's book where a man asked the lady if she was hungry and she said no - he assumed it to be so. When actually SHE WAS but expected him to insist!) I have been hanging around Russians for more than 8 years and I am STILL learning stuff! I thank you, (I can't read the font of your country of residence so I'm assuming its FSU!) and any other FSU women who give helpful advice. This is one topic that is hard to ask about in person!

A woman 25 -30 who cannot fall in love, (but wants your help, gifts, holidays, needs your company etc. etc.) - so I see you have met my ex-GF!


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Hi Ellen, I have no problems in any of those departments But I just am trying to find out what the cultural norms and expectations are. (Like in Elena's book where a man asked the lady if she was hungry and she said no - he assumed it to be so. When actually SHE WAS but expected him to insist!) I have been hanging around Russians for more than 8 years and I am STILL learning stuff! I thank you, (I can't read the font of your country of residence so I'm assuming its FSU!) and any other FSU women who give helpful advice. This is one topic that is hard to ask about in person!

A woman 25 -30 who cannot fall in love, (but wants your help, gifts, "holidays, needs your company etc. etc.) - so I see you have met my ex-GF!


I too am trying to find out what 's your males' reasons to act in such or another way Because it's YOUR actions /absent of action we are discussing here And reaction and behaviour of women depend on your "intentions" ( or how woman sees those intentions at least) So I repeat my question what does mean if you males don't make any "move"?

As for reaction to a question " are you hungry" I can say you that my answer would be the same ( even if I was dying about starvation ) Because few question would cross my mind in one ( and te same) second

1. does he think I;m such fat that I 'm hungry each hour ( in a case it was not a time for having a dinner)
2. does he such silly-ignorant- or what? - not to notice that I AM hungry ( in a case I spent a whole day with him without any meal)
3. why does he ask instead of just to suggest to have a dinner in some place. Is he just silly or mabe he is just stingy and dose not want to pay for that dinner hopping I would say I'm not hungry
4. Dose he ask such a question because he does not want to eat himself And what would I do in a case we go to a restaurant and he would say he wants nothing to eat?
5. Better I'll say I'm not hungry and we will see what he would do .


someting like that

Ps a sign of my location says that I am from Moscow kingdom - that's NOT "FSU" because it' different in many ways to Russia and to FSU


Posted by: ira156

Hey Ellen. I dont know what it has to do with the original post but i will try and answer quickly.

To ask you if you are hungry means just that...no mystery. Men and women have different metabolism's...usualy men will eat more than women. Some people eat just 3 meals a day....others will snack more often but eat a smaller portion each time.

I am 190cm's and 90-95 kgs but my Nat eats much more than i do....and she is slim....there is no rule to say that people are all hungry at the same time.......thats why i ask "are you hungry"....or "are you thirsty".

Its easy Ellen ethier answer "YES OR NO".


Posted by: chippie

[QUOTE=Ellen] So I repeat my question what does mean if you males don't make any "move"?

Ellen,

I do not know if your question was answered or not but "making a move" is when a male shows a woman that he would like to be intimate with her.

Most of us men do not want to make the mistake of "making a move" and the woman not be interested yet. I would hope that the woman will show you in one way or the other that she is interested.

My two Belarussian rubles worth!

chippie


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
well and what dose it really mean from males' viewpoint if you meet a woman and does not make any "move"
a) you can;t perform
b)she is not attrative to you
c) you are not pssionate persone


As for virginity then from my humble opinion women have sex because of love. A persone who managed not to fall in love with anybody to her 25-30s obviouse does have some psyhological issues


Well Ellen!

Here is my answer! I am not the type of person to jump in the sack right away because as you say I have sex because of love! If I am attracted to a woman I pull back the rains at first beacuse of respect...wanna be sure it is right for both of us! I have had many times in my life I couldda been intimate.... but I saved myself for a real relationship... I certainly wouldn't jump into bed with a lady on the 1st few dates, most especially if I thought she was marriage material!


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Hey Ellen. I dont know what it has to do with the original post but i will try and answer quickly.

To ask you if you are hungry means just that...no mystery. Men and women have different metabolism's...usualy men will eat more than women. Some people eat just 3 meals a day....others will snack more often but eat a smaller portion each time.

I am 190cm's and 90-95 kgs but my Nat eats much more than i do....and she is slim....there is no rule to say that people are all hungry at the same time.......thats why i ask "are you hungry"....or "are you thirsty".

Its easy Ellen ethier answer "YES OR NO".


point was if you males wanted to invite a woman to a dinner you should invite her but not ask such question lke are you hungry


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie
[QUOTE=Ellen]
Most of us men do not want to make the mistake of "making a move" and the woman not be interested yet. I would hope that the woman will show you in one way or the other that she is interested.

My two Belarussian rubles worth!

chippie


I always thought that's your "males' fate" to make those "moves" and "swallow" not that reaction you counted on was not it? It's more "tradition" from my view point way than to wait when woman would show you something-hint-hint-hint-HINT and got nothing in return . My selfish females idea it's more easy for you males to accept "NO" than for women to get an idea she is not wanted.


Posted by: freebird

Sorry I think that the hunger part may have been my fault. I just used it as an example of how you might get a different answer than what might actually be the case. I think the point I was trying to make was that because of cultural differences she might mis-interpret your failure to try to "start something" as lack of interest (or worse), while you are just trying to be polite or chivalrous. If you met somone in a bar in U.S. (or Aus, Can etc.) you might not be worried about hitting on a woman, while if you went to Russia to meet her you would be a bit nervous to appear as a sex-tourist or boor.

So I hope that might answer your question Ellen, I guess the man should read the woman's signals carefully, and try to show some affection & see how it goes after that.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
point was if you males wanted to invite a woman to a dinner you should invite her but not ask such question lke are you hungry



Im sorry Ellen but your original question was just "are you hungry" thats why i gave the answer i did. When i ask a woman out for dinner its not 5 minutes before hand ...there is usually plenty of notice. I would expect if she says yes she will have the common sence not to eat too much before our date....so she would be hungry. Cheers


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Well Ellen!

Here is my answer! I am not the type of person to jump in the sack right away because as you say I have sex because of love! If I am attracted to a woman I pull back the rains at first beacuse of respect...wanna be sure it is right for both of us! I have had many times in my life I couldda been intimate.... but I saved myself for a real relationship... I certainly wouldn't jump into bed with a lady on the 1st few dates, most especially if I thought she was marriage material!

well first few dates....Does it mean "few first trips" as well ? Does not a lack of time-money play it's role for you in this long-distance dating ?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Im sorry Ellen but your original question was just "are you hungry" thats why i gave the answer i did. When i ask a woman out for dinner its not 5 minutes before hand ...there is usually plenty of notice. I would expect if she says yes she will have the common sence not to eat too much before our date....so she would be hungry. Cheers


No I just posted my thoughts about that E Petrova's example mentioned by other poster about how would woman react to a question "Are you hungry"


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
well first few dates....Does it mean "few first trips" as well ? Does not a lack of time-money play it's role for you in this long-distance dating ?



If you are saying this speeds up the process...i would agree with you Ellen. When there is limited time while visiting i think BOTH parties will proceed maybe quicker than normally....providing they BOTH feel that it is going to progress further.


Posted by: freebird

And one more thing Ellen, some of the advice we get from ELENA and others is that if you start to show some interest in showing affection or "making a move" and she says no, she is just being modest and wants you to keep trying! Is this true in your opinion? That you wouldn't want a man to think it is too easy, but would be disappointed if he just gave up?

But here in the west, if a woman says no and you keep trying there can be all kinds of SERIOUS LEGAL PROBLEMS!


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
No I just posted my thoughts about that E Petrova's example mentioned by other poster about how would woman react to a question "Are you hungry"



Hey Ellen. I think Elanas example was to say that sometimes you have to ask more than once to get the true answer. When i first dated Nat after walking around Moscow for a few hours i would ask her if she was hungry or if she would like something to eat.....after the third time she would say yes and then easily eat a 3 course meal.

Maybe when initially dating the ladies dont want to feel obligated???? Maybe you can give us a better idea.


Posted by: freebird

Ira - I'm not sure if we shouldn't split this thread, I was'nt meaning to talk about meals etc. The point I was making was that Elena seemed to be saying if you start to "make a move" she will initially resist, but expects you to be persistant. "No means -Keep trying!"

In Canada at least they teach us "No means No" - or "No means stop before you end up with your sorry a** in Jail!!"

I am curious to hear Ellen's take on this?


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Hey Ellen. I think Elanas example was to say that sometimes you have to ask more than once to get the true answer. When i first dated Nat after walking around Moscow for a few hours i would ask her if she was hungry or if she would like something to eat.....after the third time she would say yes and then easily eat a 3 course meal.

Maybe when initially dating the ladies dont want to feel obligated???? Maybe you can give us a better idea.

I thought I gave you already an idea about that "hungry" issue. I prefer to be invited to restarant because a man wanted to do that but not because I was hungry and he did me some kind of vafoure feeding me It's just question should be asked in other way ( especislly if you got NO the first time)
Ok I know it sounds silly but it's so for me in a case with men who I'm not familar for rather long time.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Ira - I'm not sure if we shouldn't split this thread, I was'nt meaning to talk about meals etc. The point I was making was that Elena seemed to be saying if you start to "make a move" she will initially resist, but expects you to be persistant. "No means -Keep trying!"

In Canada at least they teach us "No means No" - or "No means stop before you end up with your sorry a** in Jail!!"

I am curious to hear Ellen's take on this?



Now for sure I can't give you any universal recipes like Elena Petrova does it. In addition I'm that kind of persone who just never could fit into long distance dating business exactly because I "need" several tryes made by male to give him Yes But to other hand if I really mean to say "No" it's such "No" that leaves no doubts.

But girls who involed in this dating through internet are learned very fast that such tactic "keep trying" would follow them no where Because that male who did visit them at last ( which is really a lucky chance for girls taking into consideration an amount of those who never make a trip) could just move on because he has not time for such games. (for example I read for not one time how male gave advices to each other at such kind of boards - if she didn't give you hints - read had not sex with you - to 3d date then move on to next one She is not into you and tere are plenty fish in that ocean. For sue such "3d date rule" is not for me.) So it's all complicate and I just have not idea how women are supposed to behave (because I myself could not do that )

But keep trying males,( if you have seriouse "plans" for that particlar woman) that's how nature made you after all. Nothing wrong with that (If your actions do not reach a boders of "raping" of course. )


Posted by: freebird

Wow! Thanks for giving me your views Ellen! (Your English is very good by the way)

Well, I don't agree with the "3rd date" thing either, If I thought she was serious and we had some chemistry I would stay as long as it takes. But if we did not click on a personal level it would not matter if she was willing, I need to have more than just sex in a relationship. Does it happen very often where the girls tell about a guy who comes and has sex with them but is not serious after all? I heard about this but I hope this kind of creep is not common.

By the way Ellen, I hope you don't mind if I ask you how old you are? I am just curious but I am guessing mid- 20's? I ask because I think for different ages of girl there might be different opinions


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
point was if you males wanted to invite a woman to a dinner you should invite her but not ask such question lke are you hungry


And THERE is the rub... why would I take you to dinner IF YOU ARE NOT HUNGRY???

The question is the same in our mind....

You answer "Yes", and then we ask what would you like to eat?? Not, would you like to go to dinner... because YOU JUST ANSWERED THAT QUESTION..


There are times with my friends that I ask (from Jeff Foxworthy)....

Jeet yet?? (translation... Did you eat yet?)


If the person says NO... it is time to do so...


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Women who don't like sex--- at least, not with you-- and won't admit it. They have a hundred reasons, but it all boils down to this: They have decided that they aren't attracted to you don't want to form a close relationship with you. And they're LYING about it. This damages your emotional integrity and wastes your time. Apply the three-date rule as a guideline.


I'm not sure whether it is right to apply a "three dates" rule, or four or five...HOWEVER i concur in the above statement...there are women who "play" men for entertainment and that is how "N dates rule" is legitimate.

Quote:
I'm that kind of persone who just never could fit into long distance dating business exactly because I "need" several tryes made by male to give him Yes But to other hand if I really mean to say "No" it's such "No" that leaves no doubts.

But girls who involed in this dating through internet are learned very fast that such tactic "keep trying" would follow them no where Because that male who did visit them at last ( which is really a lucky chance for girls taking into consideration an amount of those who never make a trip) could just move on because he has not time for such games.


That's right...these are "games"...perhaps a person likes "games" for fun or self-esteem reasons, but men can easily take her for a "player" and move on.
Many men are uncomfortable with "button pushing sessions", not necessarily because they are lusty goats eager to have sex there & then.
I for one dislike button pushing, games & what's next and the reason is i have been involved with people playing them and i only wasted my time, got taken for a ride and ultimately went nowhere.
It's not a middle ages' courtly romance, when courtship was an elaborate game...today men only get taken for rides & get nowhere.

I used to be the big romantic teddy bear guy...i really trusted or endorsed "old fashioned" values, treating women like objects of a romantic pursuit.
Well, i used to write them poetry ( because the women i've courted can be counted on fingers ) and what's next; i wore my heart on my sleeve.
I was terribly saddened to discover that a girl i loved dearly and wrote poetry to and whatever found that boring and called me disparaging names and ridiculed my courtship.
One plays the courtly chivalron and women treat him like a deluded buffoon.


Posted by: Ellen

Truth tell I didn't mean "games" in bad meaning of a word. I was speaking about myself and that I just could not say "yes" after male's "first try" - I just am not able to decide everything for myself and make a decision so fast Also it's realy no fun in moving too fast. . My "excuse" is that if I felt "nothing" to a man I didn't play games at all and just said stright - "Sorry boy, all your tries are in vaine".
But for sure such my "hobby" would not make me any good at long distance dating. There is just another rules, limited by time and money for males' trips

But I do understand what "games" you Ham are speaking about I agree there are enough players in this business - and at both side. And those "rules" - 3d date, write-many-visit many, ack-up plans and etc (which I could never follow) are rather resonable for this "odd" business of dating through internet.


Posted by: weather-7

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
I wonder if anyone else here has read Elena Petrova's book about finding a Russian/Ukrainian bride? I was rather surprised (after hearing about sex tourists etc.) it seems that she says in her book that if you go to meet your FSU lady, (who you have been corresponding with for some time) that she will EXPECT you to try to make a move, and might be worried/disappionted if you don't. Apparentlt ELENA says the women might think 1.) you can't perform 2.) you aren't attracted to her or 3.) you are not a passionate person.

I'm curious to hear what others think about this issue, its not my intent to go there and try to jump in the sack right away, but now I'm wondering if I try to be gracious & polite I might give off the wrong vibes?


I should say all these statements are absolutely true. Personally, I don't like when men are too rude and want just to have sex, but if there are no any movements from the men's side during a certain period of time when we are meeting I think something wrong with him.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Wow! Thanks for giving me your views Ellen! (Your English is very good by the way)


She is learning more and more everyday, very fast!

( we just need to work on the verbal part!)

Quote:
By the way Ellen, I hope you don't mind if I ask you how old you are? I am just curious but I am guessing mid- 20's? I ask because I think for different ages of girl there might be different opinions


I know Elena... and if I told you her true age I would be the final corpse under her bed!


Posted by: weather-7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
point was if you males wanted to invite a woman to a dinner you should invite her but not ask such question lke are you hungry


That is the difference of male and female logic.
When the right man wants to invite a lady for a meal he just invites her without asking silly questions. The diffident men usually ask questions.
Some more examples:
When the right man wants to buy something to his girlfriend he just goes and does so. The wrong man usually asks" Do you want me to buy something for you?" or "What do you want me to buy for you?" The right lady normally says she doesn't want anything even if wants to give another reply.

And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.

The right man never ask about the kiss, he just kiss the lady.
So never ask silly questions or you can spoil everything.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Quote:
Originally Posted by weather-7
That is the difference of male and female logic.
When the right man wants to invite a lady for a meal he just invites her without asking silly questions. The diffident men usually ask questions.
Some more examples:
When the right man wants to buy something to his girlfriend he just goes and does so. The wrong man usually asks" Do you want me to buy something for you?" or "What do you want me to buy for you?" The right lady normally says she doesn't want anything even if wants to give another reply.

And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.

The right man never ask about the kiss, he just kiss the lady.
So never ask silly questions or you can spoil everything.


LOL! I gotta say your post does have me chuckling! From what you are saying a man had better be able to read your mind!

I do agree about the asking about a kiss though! Just do it...if it wasn't the right thing to do be prepared to duck! Because a knuckle sandwich or a stinging slap is sure to follow!


Posted by: Ronin_FM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
And one more thing Ellen, some of the advice we get from ELENA and others is that if you start to show some interest in showing affection or "making a move" and she says no, she is just being modest and wants you to keep trying! Is this true in your opinion? That you wouldn't want a man to think it is too easy, but would be disappointed if he just gave up?

But here in the west, if a woman says no and you keep trying there can be all kinds of SERIOUS LEGAL PROBLEMS!


That is a huge issue in the USA. "No" is a rather definite red flag in the USA, I think. Maybe I'm too conservative, but a "no" to me would mean "no" and unless I got a definite signal otherwise, nothing would happen. But, I've been "conditioned" by the atmosphere which prevails here. I've seen a few very sad incidents concerning this.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.


i am a barrell of laugh, then.
While the "can i kiss you" line is cheesy, there are far better ones.
Perhaps it is i'm not good at chatting women up, but the opposite reminds me of cheap after shave commercials about men oozing machismo and topmodel women fainting at their feet or something...hardly a realistic picture for 99,9% men, especially MOB seekers.


Posted by: nocomfortzone

Quote:
Originally Posted by weather-7
That is the difference of male and female logic.


he he. This is very funny. I must think like a female quite a bit then because i always find it weird on here when i read other guys saying they asked women whether they could buy something for them. It is your money guys. Spend it as you see fit and to your hearts content.

Quote:
When the right man wants to invite a lady for a meal he just invites her without asking silly questions. The diffident men usually ask questions.
Some more examples:
When the right man wants to buy something to his girlfriend he just goes and does so. The wrong man usually asks" Do you want me to buy something for you?" or "What do you want me to buy for you?"
Yep, that i find weird. If there is a gift you want to give a lady just do it. It is what you are giving that counts. i,e, If it is coming from your heart or being thoughtful the money does not come into it.

Quote:
The right lady normally says she doesn't want anything even if wants to give another reply.
The right lady speaks her truth.

Quote:
And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.

he he. Yeah, it should be just a natural inclination of attraction. If she makes you feel like kissing her and giving every indication in body language then just go with the flow. Only one way to find out. some of us are slow to catch on though. I once had a girlfriend that sent me a theme card that was based on her just wanting a kiss. That was pretty funny and cute.

Quote:
The right man never ask about the kiss, he just kiss the lady.
So never ask silly questions or you can spoil everything.


Remember guys, the nature of women is they like to feel they are wanted and attractive. They don't want a rational or logical discussion about it. It's the passion and feeling that is important to them. They can't be a guy but they sure want to feel connected to our passion when they feel attracted to a males energy.


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by weather-7
I should say all these statements are absolutely true. Personally, I don't like when men are too rude and want just to have sex, but if there are no any movements from the men's side during a certain period of time when we are meeting I think something wrong with him.


MAYBE HE IS A CHRISTEN?

I believe in waiting until marriage and the Russian girls I have written to were impressed by this and thought nothing wrong with it.


Posted by: cedarwind

[QUOTE=weather-7]


And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.

The right man never ask about the kiss, he just kiss the lady.
So never ask silly questions or you can spoil everything.[/QUOTE

?????????????^^^^^^^^^^^??????????

I would ask the girl the first time if I could kiss her....it shows that you respect her.

You are the women I know of who would think it stupid to ask. But then again I only date women who belive in courtship and purity........


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by weather-7

And the first place in the chart of stupid questions.....
"Can I kiss you?" I can only start laughing when hear that.

The right man never ask about the kiss, he just kiss the lady.
So never ask silly questions or you can spoil everything.


OK Weather, give me your take on this, it is silly for a man to ask a women if he can kiss her, BUT, what if the shoe was on the other foot and the women asked if she could kiss the man, me for example, this has happened to me and it was a RW at that!


Posted by: ham

Quote:
You are the women I know of who would think it stupid to ask. But then again I only date women who belive in courtship and purity........


Asking shows respect, avoids getting in a cul-de-sac and can test the waters. Some men watch too much TV. Yesterday i watched a clip of an old James Bond movie: jumping from a plane or something, James Bond lands on a luxury yacht. Unarmed, unaffected, he unzips his paratrooper's gear, and wears tuxedo or whatever underneath. The only being on board is some hottie in bikini, who rushes to offer him a cup, presumably of some grand reserve liquor dated 1801 worth $10.000 the sip. You guess what's next.
But James Bond et similia are fiction, crossbreeds between Donald Duck, Nero Wolfe and Terminator.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
Asking shows respect, avoids getting in a cul-de-sac and can test the waters. Some men watch too much TV. Yesterday i watched a clip of an old James Bond movie: jumping from a plane or something, James Bond lands on a luxury yacht. Unarmed, unaffected, he unzips his paratrooper's gear, and wears tuxedo or whatever underneath. The only being on board is some hottie in bikini, who rushes to offer him a cup, presumably of some grand reserve liquor dated 1801 worth $10.000 the sip. You guess what's next.
But James Bond et similia are fiction, crossbreeds between Donald Duck, Nero Wolfe and Terminator.



Asking a woman for a kiss is about as romantic as a fart in an elevator. Ham if you are getting your romance lessons from a 60's Bond movie theres is no wonder you arent having any luck. Geeze its sound like im behind the shelter sheds and still 11 yrs old listening to it?????


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Asking a woman for a kiss is about as romantic as a fart in an elevator. Ham if you are getting your romance lessons from a 60's Bond movie theres is no wonder you arent having any luck. Geeze its sound like im behind the shelter sheds and still 11 yrs old listening to it?????


first you missed the point completely.
second, go ahead and be all the macho you want.
Those self-aggrandizing postures suit you very well, but over the internet...
Most women might not appreciate discretion and tact (call it whatever you want) and prefer uncle Moe attitudes...fine; be the star of the next aftershave commercial.


Posted by: freebird

Speaking of cul-de-sacs and awkward moments has anyone been in a situation where a lady had a bad reaction to a spur-of-the moment kiss?


Posted by: cedarwind

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Asking a woman for a kiss is about as romantic as a fart in an elevator. Ham if you are getting your romance lessons from a 60's Bond movie theres is no wonder you arent having any luck. Geeze its sound like im behind the shelter sheds and still 11 yrs old listening to it?????


I guess it just depends on the quality of women you wish to date..........One who is into purity and courtship or the kind that has been around.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarwind
I guess it just depends on the quality of women you wish to date..........One who is into purity and courtship or the kind that has been around.



Please Cedar dont judge the quality of a woman because she will kiss a man that she has been talking to for months and has met for perhaps a few days...its got nothing to do with purity at all. You yourself have said that in a post above....that you would ask the woman.

How dare you judge a woman and refer to them as "having been around" just because they dont have to be asked to be kissed

You have just refered to almost every mans partner here with disrespect and puritanical judgementalism. And you wonder why you are having problems finding a partner when clearly the only kind of woman worthy of you would be the Virgin Mary herself.

What would you have done with these "women that have been around"....stone them in the village square??????


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
first you missed the point completely.
second, go ahead and be all the macho you want.
Those self-aggrandizing postures suit you very well, but over the internet...
Most women might not appreciate discretion and tact (call it whatever you want) and prefer uncle Moe attitudes...fine; be the star of the next aftershave commercial.



Oh Ham here we go again. If you or any other man on here wants to enter into correspondence with a woman from overseas....talk and write for months....spend time and a considerable amount of money to travel to see them....but needs lessons in how to kiss a woman then they are in the wrong endeavour.

Im no macho man...im no cassanova...but im in my 40's Ham and i have kissed a lot of women in my life. I have also tried to kiss women or girls that didnt want too.

If you go to kiss a woman and she turns her cheek to you its a good sign she doesnt want too kiss you in that way....get it...here endeth lesson 1.


But i forget that you are the one in a happy healthy relationship and love to spread your joy and happiness to the rest of us....jsut keep doing what your doing Ham ...its obviously working for you.


Posted by: Spakoyna

Bamm,Bamm,BAMM!

My wife wouldn't do more than give or let me give more than a peck until my 2nd visit!


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spakoyna
Bamm,Bamm,BAMM!

My wife wouldn't do more than give or let me give more than a peck until my 2nd visit!



And there is nothing wrong with that either Spak...you were aware of it and accepted it....and are now very happy...great stuff. I also didnt kiss Nat until we had spent5 or 6 days together...she would take my arm...hold my hand ect...when i though the time was right i gave it a go....she could have turned her cheek which would have told me quite clearly she wasnt interested in me kissing her. Cheers


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarwind
I guess it just depends on the quality of women you wish to date..........One who is into purity and courtship or the kind that has been around.


And people who talk of purity and sex quite often have issues related to sex itself.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
You have just refered to almost every mans partner here with disrespect and puritanical judgementalism. And you wonder why you are having problems finding a partner when clearly the only kind of woman worthy of you would be the Virgin Mary herself.


everyone has his standards.
As long as they're in the realm of reality ( EG no 78yo cripple seeking teenage beauty queens ), who are you to judge?
Sure, the vastest majority of women "have been around" for many reasons, so one just takes it or leaves it...i don't smoke & i don't drink, but i know countless people who claim non-drinkers don't know how to enjoy life, only because THEY drink.

Quote:
But i forget that you are the one in a happy healthy relationship and love to spread your joy and happiness to the rest of us....jsut keep doing what your doing Ham ...its obviously working for you.


As the forum rules suggest, people should discuss a topic, not a person.
I may be a 78yo white farmer, or a 15yo pakistani kid; a millionaire or a beggar; a triple Ph.D in astrophysics or a middle school dropout...none of which will affect the truth in the topic, or one's chances at it.

Face it, you can be all self-aggrandizing & self-important ONLINE as you wish.
Others were even more so before you.
Fact is, when you will hit the ground, nobody will feel sorry, nobody will care and all will be finger pointing at the forest you couldn't see because of the trees i guess.
You should know this.


Quote:
And people who talk of purity and sex quite often have issues related to sex itself.


Why?
Just because one doesn't play James Bond or a charachter from an aftershave commercial, it doesn't mean they are sexually challenged, impotent or mentally unstable.
I had a classmate who acted & looked like out of an aftershave commercial (tennis coach & all ) and he was a complete buffoon and the worst match one might wish to any woman.


Posted by: ira156

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
everyone has his standards.
As long as they're in the realm of reality ( EG no 78yo cripple seeking teenage beauty queens ), who are you to judge?
Sure, the vastest majority of women "have been around" for many reasons, so one just takes it or leaves it...i don't smoke & i don't drink, but i know countless people who claim non-drinkers don't know how to enjoy life, only because THEY drink.



As the forum rules suggest, people should discuss a topic, not a person.
I may be a 78yo white farmer, or a 15yo pakistani kid; a millionaire or a beggar; a triple Ph.D in astrophysics or a middle school dropout...none of which will affect the truth in the topic, or one's chances at it.

Face it, you can be all self-aggrandizing & self-important ONLINE as you wish.
Others were even more so before you.
Fact is, when you will hit the ground, nobody will feel sorry, nobody will care and all will be finger pointing at the forest you couldn't see because of the trees i guess.
You should know this.




Why?
Just because one doesn't play James Bond or a charachter from an aftershave commercial, it doesn't mean they are sexually challenged, impotent or mentally unstable.
I had a classmate who acted & looked like out of an aftershave commercial (tennis coach & all ) and he was a complete buffoon and the worst match one might wish to any woman.



Yes Ham everyone has their standards...but they dont have the right to pass judgement by refering to " having been around" like its some sort of disease.

And i believe we all have the right to post here but really Ham why not just start your own thread or even better your own site so you can tell everyone the SAME message over and over. I would love to know how much time you spend finding all of the negative aspects of these endearours.

Yes we know there are scammers

we know that sites make money out of people

we know you dont like people that dont look like quasimoto...or make a decent living

we know you cant seem to recongnise that ANYONE ELSE has the slimest hope of being happy.

we know you think that anyone who has the slightest belief in themselves thinks they are James Bond or an aftershave model.


Really just start a thread " ALL THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF FOREIGN DATING" or any dating for that matter. You would save yourself a hell of a lot of time skipping from one post to the other to say the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira156
Yes Ham everyone has their standards...but they dont have the right to pass judgement by refering to " having been around" like its some sort of disease.

And i believe we all have the right to post here but really Ham why not just start your own thread or even better your own site so you can tell everyone the SAME message over and over. I would love to know how much time you spend finding all of the negative aspects of these endearours.

Yes we know there are scammers

we know that sites make money out of people

we know you dont like people that dont look like quasimoto...or make a decent living

we know you cant seem to recongnise that ANYONE ELSE has the slimest hope of being happy.

we know you think that anyone who has the slightest belief in themselves thinks they are James Bond or an aftershave model.


Really just start a thread " ALL THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF FOREIGN DATING" or any dating for that matter. You would save yourself a hell of a lot of time skipping from one post to the other to say the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER.



to quick for me ian,was just going to say that same post is in another thread.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarwind
I guess it just depends on the quality of women you wish to date..........One who is into purity and courtship or the kind that has been around.


Well I will take one who has been around thanks. One who is experienced in matters of sexuality and knows her own body and what does it for her. I'm not into any form of ignorance or denial thanks.

I can think of nothing worse than to be married to a sexual prude. Attitudes like "lie back and think of England" or "nice girls don't do that sort of thing" are anathema to me. I could not care less whether my girlfriend had slept with 1 guy or 100. I would be more worried if she had slept with no one in that time. Had she not been able to meet ANY decent men? Are decent guys really than uncommon. What matters far more to me is WHY she slept with them and why she made that choice. What attracted her to them to the extent she wanted that level of intimacy?

I shudder at the thought of people who go through life thinking there might be something inately wrong with sex and who seem to think an orgasm is the work of the devil. Being focused on a woman who by extension CANNOT know herself in these ways seems likely to meet with disappointment for all concerned. Particularly since sexual compatibility is also a significant part of any relationship.

I think sexual relations and intimacy are far more than 10 minutes (if they are lucky) under the sheets in a missionary position on the second Friday of every month. I would hope sexual relations between partners is more about making the other person happy and the focus of your attention in that physical way.

Nor is it solely about penetration either. I'm not talking Karma Sutra here but maintaining real intimacy for as long as possible. "Wham, Bam, thank you mam" is just so BORING because it is not about making the other person happy.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I could not care less whether my girlfriend had slept with 1 guy or 100. I would be more worried if she had slept with no one in that time. Had she not been able to meet ANY decent men? Are decent guys really than uncommon. What matters far more to me is WHY she slept with them and why she made that choice. What attracted her to them to the extent she wanted that level of intimacy?

Silly question.
If she indeed slept with 100 guys what could be "decent" reason for that? ( theorectically)


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Silly question.
If she indeed slept with 100 guys what could be "decent" reason for that? ( theorectically)


I guess it depends if you think there might be rather more than 100 decent men in the world Ellen. If you think all men are bastards I can guess you might see things that way.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Silly question.
If she indeed slept with 100 guys what could be "decent" reason for that? ( theorectically)


so why can't a woman be decent if she injoys sex.
shock ,horror the world is coming to an end i'm agreeing with deccie.
ellen & others you are intitled to your values but are not intitled frown on others because they have different values.
always found it to be double standards that if a guy indulges its normal but if a woman does she is immoral, in word bullsh** were's the equality
in that.
sex is a natural part of life & not something evil.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I guess it depends if you think there might be rather more than 100 decent men in the world Ellen. If you think all men are bastards I can guess you might see things that way.


Truth tell I think there are more than 100 decent males in the world - I'm very optimistic persone in that matter.
What I am wondering about is how would you call me if I had sex with ALL those decent males? ( what could be my female's "excuse" from male's view point ? )
( Ps remind that my silly question poped after reading a statement that "number" of sex contacts didn't matter but only "reason -intention ...and etc" )


Posted by: ham

Quote:
And i believe we all have the right to post here but really Ham why not just start your own thread or even better your own site so you can tell everyone the SAME message over and over.


you are still judging a person and not the topic, Einstein.
Besides, what's the difference between that and people like you who blow their horn about how much of a "success" or whatever they are?

Quote:
I would love to know how much time you spend finding all of the negative aspects of these endearours.


judging by the number of posts, you actually spend much more time than i do playing the self-aggrandizing success...how cool.

Quote:
we know you dont like people that dont look like quasimoto...or make a decent living

we know you think that anyone who has the slightest belief in themselves thinks they are James Bond or an aftershave model.


Mr. Freud messed his booknotes...you said earlier I was the one taking James Bond as a model...
As far as personal claims over the internet go, YOU believe them at your risk; i won't.

Quote:
we know you cant seem to recongnise that ANYONE ELSE has the slimest hope of being happy.


Hmmm
i have no idea.
I experienced cases when people bashed me and/or my views to no end, then years later came and said they ought to have listened to me; others are found crying over split milk online after the train of their dreams wrecks. Are you truly happy? Then enjoy it and pay no attention to the rest.
Real millionaires i knew are busy enjoying their millions, not talking online about the size of their vault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I could not care less whether my girlfriend had slept with 1 guy or 100. ...

Silly question.
If she indeed slept with 100 guys what could be "decent" reason for that? ( theorectically)


moreless.
Extreme behavioural patterns (whichever they are ) may very well be the tip of the iceberg.

Quote:
to quick for me ian,was just going to say that same post is in another thread.


only two people?
come on, you can do much better


Posted by: Cheburashka

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
And people who talk of purity and sex quite often have issues related to sex itself.


That's total bullcrap deccie!


Posted by: ira156

Besides, what's the difference between that and people like you who blow their horn about how much of a "success" or whatever they are?



Because the difference is Ham that i admit there are scammers and creeps and wannabe's....you just say the same old sh!t over and over....i dont think i have ever read you post anything positive.


judging by the number of posts, you actually spend much more time than i do playing the self-aggrandizing success...how cool.


I didnt say anything about how many posts or time spent here....i said the amount of time you must spend finding the negative aspects of this endeavour. You cut and paste and quote stats and negative articles form everywhere.......if thats all you look for thats all you will see.


Mr. Freud messed his booknotes...you said earlier I was the one taking James Bond as a model...
As far as personal claims over the internet go, YOU believe them at your risk; i won't.


Well you are the one that constantly uses James bond and after shave models and leroy and wong and barney.....you never talk of YOUR life....or is that because you havent got one??????? If i remember correctly YOU are the one who has been in this "buisness for over 30 years and still NOTHING"......take a look and maybe you will see that what ever it is you are doing its not working.


Hmmm
i have no idea.
I experienced cases when people bashed me and/or my views to no end, then years later came and said they ought to have listened to me; others are found crying over split milk online after the train of their dreams wrecks. Are you truly happy? Then enjoy it and pay no attention to the rest.
Real millionaires i knew are busy enjoying their millions, not talking online about the size of their vault.



There will always be a man somewhere saying the end of the world is tommorow.....one day one of them will be right....tell me Ham have any succeeded or were they all victim of you all seeing prophicies?????
And i have never said i was a millionare if you are speaking literally...if you are speaking figuratively....i will be enjoying my millions in a few weeks when i am back in Moscow.

And you have still not answered my question ....DO YOU KNOW ANYONE THATS HAPPY??????

Ham if a guy with a terminal brain tumour suddenly was told he was cured by a miracle...and he had also won $100 million in the lottery ....i would give him 5 minutes with you and he would want to blow his brains out.

I think your lack of success has nothing to do with not being a billionare or looking like James Bond.....its your attitude to life


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
That's total bullcrap deccie!


Thats interesting Cheb since a quick google search indicated otherwise. Or at least that others held the same view I do. I would post links but unfortunately this one of the areas which is not free from censorship here. All my attempts to read the articles I wanted to were blocked. )-:

A requirement for virginity from either partner seems a similar requirement to needing her to wear high heels.


Posted by: joelunchbox

If a man sleeps with many women, I believe that shows a low level of respect for others (and possibly himself). If a woman sleeps with many men, I believe that shows low self esteem.
Is it possible for someone to have many sexual partners and be a good person? yes, but a truly good person will take into account what effects their actions have on others. If the other person feels used, doesn't that make the other person a user?
The psychological/sociological ramifications of the sex act are innumberable. None of us can know every effect of any thing we do. Sometimes the best we can do is no harm. Which in this case would be-no sex.
No sex....dang.
I think I know what my master's thesis will be on now.....


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Truth tell I think there are more than 100 decent males in the world - I'm very optimistic persone in that matter.


Nice to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
What I am wondering about is how would you call me if I had sex with ALL those decent males? ( what could be my female's "excuse" from male's view point ? )

Why would you need an excuse? I am assuming you are looking at this from a partner's point of view. If those previous sexual encounters pre-dated my own then I would not ask the number - simple. So I would not have known.

I DON'T CARE SO I WOULD NOT ASK.

I would be more interested to find out if you had carried on an affair while married. . That would affect my judgement far more than a number would. I had a female friend bust up a family because she had the hots for the guy. I told her she should not go chasing this guy because he was in a relationship and there were kids involved. She didn't listen and chased him until she got him. She then decided that it was time for her to have a baby. The relationship ended shortly there after. THIS type of event tells me far more about her character than some abstract number of partners does.

Of course the guy is equally to blame. This would never have happened if he had not given into temptation.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ham
moreless.
Extreme behavioural patterns (whichever they are ) may very well be the tip of the iceberg.


Well then surely virginity is the other extreme? Sexual repression? Not far off frigid perhaps.

Lets see.. A woman of 50 who becomes sexually active at the age of 18 would have had a total 32 years in which to have different partners. This being 384 months. That means if she changes a partner once every 3.5 months she would meet the criteria of 100 partners. Or a little over 3 sexual partners every year. Hardly bed jumping every week.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Nice to know.
Why would you need an excuse?

Just because I didn't met even one male who REALLY didn't mind if a woman he was going to marry was known like somebody who's enjoing sex with every decent male in 100 miles around

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I am assuming you are looking at this from a partner's point of view. If those previous sexual encounters pre-dated my own then I would not ask the number - simple. So I would not have known.
I DON'T CARE SO I WOULD NOT ASK.


Now... I am about KNWOING ( never mind how) and don't mind. Asking such things is another issue ( I personaly don't answer such questions even under 3d degree)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
I would be more interested to find out if you had carried on an affair while married. . That would affect my judgement far more than a number would. I had a female friend bust up a family because she had the hots for the guy. I told her she should not go chasing this guy because he was in a relationship and there were kids involved. She didn't listen and chased him until she got him. She then decided that it was time for her to have a baby. The relationship ended shortly there after. THIS type of event tells me far more about her character than some abstract number of partners does.

Of course the guy is equally to blame. This would never have happened if he had not given into temptation.


How are you going to find THAT?

As for your personal example then I don';t want to .. how are you put that .. piss at a pop-corn... of males who're dating RW, but if you have such criteria for judging how fair woman would be in marriage I think you would be surprised to find out how many RW ( who of course possess those "traditional family values" which your are looking for here ) had married lovers in their past.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelunchbox
If a man sleeps with many women, I believe that shows a low level of respect for others (and possibly himself). If a woman sleeps with many men, I believe that shows low self esteem.
Is it possible for someone to have many sexual partners and be a good person? yes, but a truly good person will take into account what effects their actions have on others. If the other person feels used, doesn't that make the other person a user?
The psychological/sociological ramifications of the sex act are innumberable. None of us can know every effect of any thing we do. Sometimes the best we can do is no harm. Which in this case would be-no sex.
No sex....dang.
I think I know what my master's thesis will be on now.....


Joe, my point is that it is quality and not quantity that is significant. I would argue that any woman who enters a relationship as a mistress and is content to be "the other woman" also has self esteem issues. Remember that I did NOT say that it would be ok for me for a woman to just jump into bed with anyone or in any situation. The predicator here is that that they are decent guys - she just happened for whatever reason to have met rather a lot of them. Not an impossibility.


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Just because I didn't met even one male who REALLY didn't mind if a woman he was going to marry was known like somebody who's enjoing sex with every decent male in 100 miles around

ROTFLMAO! Good one Ellen. Maybe decent guys might not be exactly that common. (-:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen

How are you going to find THAT?

You would be suprised at the things one can find out if you truly listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
As for your personal example then I don';t want to .. how are you put that .. piss at a pop-corn... of males who're dating RW, but if you have such criteria for judging how fair woman would be in marriage I think you would be surprised to find out how many RW ( who of course possess those "traditional family values" which your are looking for here ) had married lovers in their past.


Nope. I would not be suprised at all. I am neither quite that stupid, or green.
Never heard that saying before though - Thanks!

Who said I was looking for traditional family values?. As a friend in St Petersburg will attest I did not go for a passive woman by any means. She is 'ornery, difficult, trying, contrary... and many other things.. and I love her dearly and wouldn't want to be without her.


Posted by: Ellen

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Joe, my point is that it is quality and not quantity that is significant. I would argue that any woman who enters a relationship as a mistress and is content to be "the other woman" also has self esteem issues. Remember that I did NOT say that it would be ok for me for a woman to just jump into bed with anyone or in any situation. The predicator here is that that they are decent guys - she just happened for whatever reason to have met rather a lot of them. Not an impossibility.


Ok I' try to continue with my silly question in other way

What could be "whatever" reason for woman to have sex - males point of view, please ( Ps I got one variant - he is decent guy. Did I get it right? )


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
Ok I' try to continue with my silly question in other way

What could be "whatever" reason for woman to have sex - males point of view, please ( Ps I got one variant - he is decent guy. Did I get it right? )


That is indeed a difficult question to answer. Rather than answer the positive criteria it would be easier to answer the negative ones.


1. How much did she know the guy? This is not time based as such but rather hopefully an attempt to know someone slightly better than "Hey you look hot - I'm randy - let's have sex!" If she did do that, did she at least take precautions for both STI's and pregnancy.

2. Was he an abuser? (physical or mental) Were there others?

3. Did she sleep with him to try to get pregnant and either obtain financial support or trap him? (I have had women admit to doing this or attempting it)

4. What was the precursor? Was it an agreed one night stand? Did she have impressions of a relationship but he left straight after?

5. What was the initital point of attraction and what things did she learn about him?

6. What was the cause of the breakup?

7. Was he married or otherwise in another relationship?

8. Was she?

I know it would seem that a lot of this information would not be openly provided. You certainly could not do it as a "Q&A" scenario. But, like I said previously, if you really listen to what someone says you can quite often form a picture about most of these issues.


Posted by: ira156

For me if a woman or man has sex with a hundred different partners it says one of 2 things to me......sex is more important to them than a relationship...thus having to go from one partner to the next.......or they have issues with their self worth and think that sex is the answer to their inner problems.

For me it wouldnt be the worry of having a lot of sex...they could have had sex a thousand times with only 2 partners...it would be what is the reason why they were having sex...especially with so many partners


Posted by: Ellen

now .... I'd though prefer to find out males' ideas about "positive" reasons for woman to have a sex

Sombody else wish to try to enlight me?

PS BTW how are you going to get needed information from "listening to"? Do you know Russian languge enough?
Anyway I'll better shut up ... just for any case my english is good enough for that


Posted by: deccie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
now .... I'd though prefer to find out males' ideas about "positive" reasons for woman to have a sex

Sombody else wish to try to enlight me?

PS BTW how are you going to get needed information from "listening to"? Do you know Russian languge enough?



In order to answer your question more fully about positive reasons I would simply say the desire to be intimate with a "suitable" member of the opposite sex and in a manner which will do no harm to either of them (or another legitimately interested person e.g. husband, wife, girlfriend, child) either physically or mentally would meet my criteria. That is issues, of health and pregnancy MUST be addressesed instead of left to chance. That no other relationship is to be compromised as a result. (No affairs, no multiple dating)

That's simple enough for me.


Posted by: joelunchbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by deccie
Joe, my point is that it is quality and not quantity that is significant. I would argue that any woman who enters a relationship as a mistress and is content to be "the other woman" also has self esteem issues. Remember that I did NOT say that it would be ok for me for a woman to just jump into bed with anyone or in any situation. The predicator here is that that they are decent guys - she just happened for whatever reason to have met rather a lot of them. Not an impossibility.


I understand your point and agree.
But, I would suggest that if someone meets a lot of nice guys or girls, the trick is to then choose the best of them. Hopefully, IMHO, that will be done without sleeping with every one of them.


Posted by: ham

Quote:
Ham if a guy with a terminal brain tumour suddenly was told he was cured by a miracle...and he had also won $100 million in the lottery ....i would give him 5 minutes with you and he would want to blow his brains out.

you never talk of YOUR life....or is that because you havent got one??????? If i remember correctly YOU are the one who has been in this "buisness for over 30 years and still NOTHING"


you are still criticizing a person (whom you don't know) and not the argument.
You are obsessed with me or what i say and keep on rehashing your version of good old silly "it's the other guy who's a ***", and the "30 years in business" is pure ******** you just made up.
You have a failed marriage under your belt already, now honestly tell me:
* was it your attitude to life?
* was it a self-fulfilling prophecy of doom?
* was it "the other party" at fault?
If you really can't stand to read what i write, there is the ignore button: use it.
Otherwise stop arguing about people you don't know.

Quote:
A requirement for virginity from either partner seems a similar requirement to needing her to wear high heels.


Let's not mix peppers with brontosaurs.
"Requiring" virginity is one thing, having scruples about women who had countless partners is another.
As said, a woman might have had 3 partners only, and having sex 14 times a day.
That shows difficulty, if not inability, to commit (whatever the reason ) OR a complete player.
Players are not good relationship materials AND inability to commit might signal underlying serious behavioural/psychological issues...never go to bed with a woman whose issues are bigger than yours!

Quote:
Well then surely virginity is the other extreme? Sexual repression? Not far off frigid perhaps.


it's like comparing negatively a non-drinker to a dypsomaniac.

Quote:
What could be "whatever" reason for woman to have sex - males point of view, please


any reason, from a beer too many to being in heat.

Quote:
The predicator here is that that they are decent guys - she just happened for whatever reason to have met rather a lot of them. Not an impossibility.


prostitutes are nice-guys magnets, then.

Quote:
That no other relationship is to be compromised as a result. (No affairs, no multiple dating)


very good, but if you don't want to "judge women who have been around", then how can you set limits of this kind? A real player, sleazebag or woman with issues to behave that way will probably pay little to no attention to what you say.


Posted by: bobjf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
now .... I'd though prefer to find out males' ideas about "positive" reasons for woman to have a sex

Sombody else wish to try to enlight me?

PS BTW how are you going to get needed information from "listening to"? Do you know Russian languge enough?
Anyway I'll better shut up ... just for any case my english is good enough for that


ellen i'v met a few girls in my time who often indulge in sex simply because they injoy it just like most men.
i do not see any differences in values because of it.


Posted by: Cheburashka