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What would you do?
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Posted by: RobOhioGuy

For arguements sake, let us assume you have, in general, a happy relationship wtih your GF/BF or Fiance(e) and one day through casual conversation with someone else that knows your partner, you learn that the reason they got divorced is not at all what they told you.

In short, they lied about why they got a divorce. How does that effect your relationship with them? Or does it not matter to you.

As an example, your partner tells you they divorced because the other spouse was having an affair. You later discover that the real reason was something else entirely.

I would feel very reluctant because they lied about why the got a divorce. Which would cause me to question what else do I not know about you and what else are you hiding about yourself that I might want to know??

What would you think or do in such a situation?

Posted by: inlove

For me everything will depend on the magnitude of lie.. and the reason he lied. Maybe he was embaressed of something..This I can understand..

My second husband, American by the way, never even mentioned about being previously married. I found out about his divorced status while getting a marriage license. Still have no idea why he never told about that to me earlier..

Posted by: Texas Proud

Rob,

You left out what the 'truth' was, which to me makes a big difference..

Let's say that real reason was the husband was a child molester, I can see where she might be embarrased to say she was with someone like that and an affair is good enough of a story..

BUT, if it was HER who had the affair and he divorced her because of it, then that is a relationship killer.. if they can cheat on a husband once, what is to prevent them from doing it again?

Texas...

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
For me everything will depend on the magnitude of lie.. and the reason he lied. Maybe he was embaressed of something..This I can understand..

My second husband, American by the way, never even mentioned about being previously married. I found out about his divorced status while getting a marriage license. Still have no idea why he never told about that to me earlier..

WOW... OK, I am sure I will piss you off... but why would you go through with a wedding with that kind of lie? And right before you get married you find out???

I guess he lived up to his history...

I hope number three is your last!!

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

For arguements sake, let us assume you have, in general, a happy relationship wtih your GF/BF or Fiance(e) and one day through casual conversation with someone else that knows your partner, you learn that the reason they got divorced is not at all what they told you.

Well I would be pissed off about it

Lets just say that I have ran into some similar issues with my wife not being so truthful about some things.
I was in the dark about many issues.
They were very bad things but I am over them now.
Still I get pissed thinking about these things she did.

My advice: Just forget about the lies she has told you and move on. If you love her just let these past issues go.
However that doesn`t mean to ever forget these things never happened.
Jerry

Posted by: heatherlatyshev

Well, I can't say what I would do. I agree with every one else, it would depend on the truth about the lie... For instance, I tell every one that my last divorce ended because of his infidelities, but I choose to leave out the constant abuse and drug use, does that make it a lie, or just an omission of part of the truth.

And second....I was lied to by my Oleg, and figured out the truth on my own, with no help from him. He had told me that he had no relatives in the state, we got married with out a single member of his family attending the wedding.... About a year or so later I figured out, from little bits of information and extreme coincidences that the kid he had been bringing around was actually his brother, that his brother, his step-father, and his sister were not only in America, but living in the same town as we were. It was later that I learned all the details as to why he didn't want me to know, now I wonder if it would've been better to keep his step-father out of our lives. This was a giant, huge, enormous lie, but we got through it. Now we love each other and it is a mistake he made because he didn't want me to have to deal with some of the issues he and his step-father have. And knowing about these issues, I wish I sometimes didn't know his step-father at all.

My point is that anything can be over come, almost anything, murder and infidelity are 2 of my 'no-can-do's'.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
WOW... OK, I am sure I will piss you off... but why would you go through with a wedding with that kind of lie? And right before you get married you find out???

I guess he lived up to his history...

I hope number three is your last!!

He did not really lie, per se.. He omitted the whole thing altogether, and it never occured to me that he might have been married before. Partly because he behaved as a long time bachelor, but also he never even mentioned his previous relationships, and usually people who used to be married, say something about their exes at least once.. I assumed we just not going to discuss his ex g/fs, and it was fine with me, I don't like talking about my ex b/f either. But of course he knew that I was married before.. Anyway, his divorce status was a complete surprise for me right before the ceremony..

I asked him why he never mentioned his previous marriage. He said it was brief, insignificant, and long time ago, so it never occured to him I should know about such a thing. Go figure..

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Thanks for the viewpoints..... I should have been clearer... I am really talking about an omission of information. She/He tells you one reason (thats probably true) and She/He tells someone else a different reason (also probably true)

Much more along the lines of what heather is talking about.

Posted by: novotul

The reasons why we divorce can be such a mystery -- so personal and central to who we are, extremely private but sometimes (to some who know a little of the truth) so public, that often times one doesn�t know as much as one wishes � even about one�s own divorce.

Why did I divorce? Is it because I feel in love with another, not looking for it, and while not consummating the relationship simultaneously refused to abandon it? Was it because I told my ex-wife about that new love when it was new, before I knew what it meant? Or is it because I had not loved my ex-wife for years and didn�t know it? Was it because I settled for good enough and stability for my teenage son, rather than the pursuit of happiness? Was it because she worked too hard and was never home? Or because I did the same? Was it because I ultimately decided to pursue living love rather than abide in a dead relationship? Was it because I refused to reconcile after she filed? Was it because we never recovered out marriage after a child died? Was it because she abandoned her own health and well-being?

Does the perception of those who were friends of the marriage, who may have definite perspectives I find uncomfortable, give them a view of reality more valid than mine, or my ex�s, or my fiancé, who �saw� everything unfold although separated by 10,000 miles? Whose perception is valid? Everyone�s. And no one�s.

Do I know everything important about my fiance�s divorces? Probably not. Does she know everything important mine? No. Do I? Probably not. Do I know everything important about why I married in the first place?

What we search for, love and happiness, are mysteries. The truth around them is so tremendously multifaceted. We need to enter, nurture, and sustain these core relationships bravely, with care, the best wisdom we can find, and hope for luck. Would I still be married if my daughter had not died? I think so. Was divorce an inevitable outcome of her death? I don�t think so, but it happened.

Let us be tender as we search for truth about our beloved�s past, and know that there is no Truth.

Posted by: elvis1

Depends on the situation. had she been unfaithful then end of relationship for me. On the other hand had she been unfairly accused of something untrue or abused then is a whole new story.

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Often, your first instinct about a situation is the correct read. I just returned from a 10 day visit from Odessa. Almost immediately I noticed some rather unsettling things that as time progressed came to fruit in some rather substantial and serious problems. When she met me I noticed new clothes (not a big deal to be sure in itself.) then a new cell phone while the old one was still on an being used.... Question.... why 2 phones? At first I didnt think to much about these first two items.... but when we arrived at the flat, the phone rang on the "new phone." It was apparent that she was talking to someone she didnt want to be talking to as the conversation was full of anger from her. She hung up, phone immediately rang again and she answered with a very cold, loud SHTO (what) At this point I was assuming that she was talking to a man.

Over the next several days the phone would ring several times with her simply looking at the number and not answering the telephone. It was at this point I knew it was a man and I began to playfully indicate that her boyfriend was calling her. She said it was "a bad person" Hmmm bad person. Well how is it that this bad person got your telephone number?

Finally on the day before I had to depart to come back home it all came out. Prior to my trip to visit her, I had received an email from her where she told me that she was going to Kiev to obtain her certification and this would give her a better pay structure. She mentioned that she had been offered a job while in Kiev and that it was better pay but that she was reluctant to take it. With that back drop I was surprised to learn that what really occurred was very different. It seems that a friend of the owner of the company she works for has taken a real interest in her. He is a supposedly connected political person in Kiev. In short, he wants her as his mistress. She told me that with "fancy" words he talked her into going to Kiev. Of course, she said that she didnt do anything and in reality the only person who really knows is her. I am not naive enough to think that nothing happened as it almost certainly did.

My bigger problem is that this is the second time that I have learned that what I was originally told turns out to not be the whole story. In this case it may have no relation to the truth. I did go through the formality of sending her an email yesterday asking her to explain what she told me in person with the help of the interpreter. There is a very small chance that because of the language issue, that what she communicated is not what she was trying to communicate.

It is really sad because she is a tremendously fun person to be around. She is very caring and tender as well as passionate. But at the end of the day if there are trust issues then all of the other things do not matter.

Posted by: Pin Boy

sorry this happened to you rob...i made two return visits and on the third i sensed something wasn't kosher and my senses were right and later confirmed by a third party...i hope that at the least you had some great travel adventures and cultural experiences if this doesn't work for you. good luck.

pin boy

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Pin Boy
sorry this happened to you rob...i made two return visits and on the third i sensed something wasn't kosher and my senses were right and later confirmed by a third party...i hope that at the least you had some great travel adventures and cultural experiences if this doesn't work for you. good luck.

pin boy

I did have a wonderful experience! I love the culture, food and people in general. I will continue my search over there

Posted by: GreenBarb

As Dr. Phil says an "omission" is good as a lie because your not telling the truth.

Posted by: tvoyznakomi

I was just going to quote some wisdom from Ben Franklin, 'If you can't trust someone on the little things, you can't trust them on the big things."

Then I kept reading down and found out about your fortunate disillusionment...sorry it had to happen, but good thing it happened now.

imho, to try to salvage something honest, or convert this person to honesty would be very difficult, almost impossible.

Glad you had a good time in Russia, hopefully you made some other friendships(:

Posted by: searcher

It seems quite complicated....

I understand both sides and, to an extent, have to agree with both sides but let me say this...

We expect the absolute truth from people and we really should hear the truth BUT sometimes somethings truly are not important.....

Of course, it depends upon what those things are and sometimes people either forget or have a good (or at least reasonable) reason why they omit information or lie.

Often, it is the fear of losing you - sometimes for good reasons or in some instances because they may not have good intentions, but i'll digress.

Here is an extreme example.....

Suppose you are seriously in love with someone and this person TRULY loves you. In their past, for no other reason other than simply survival, your chosen person was a prostitute (or giggolo)... Certainly this would be shocking and certainly you have a right to know about it but what do you do???

DO you throw (dump) her/him?

How important is it that his person TRULY loves you (and only you) assuming this person has no other negatives.... they only want you and to be with you... what is the answer?

I know it may be alright for some or more than others can handle.

Posted by: Eryk

>>Suppose you are seriously in love with someone and this >>person TRULY loves you.

Seems to me the matter ends there. The rest is just mechanical stuff like dealing with any STD hazards etc. (given your subsequent elaboration).

>>In their past, for no other reason other than simply survival, >>your chosen person was a prostitute (or giggolo)... Certainly >>this would be shocking

Why? "Shocking" might be dating a Nobel Prize winner or someone who conducted the NY Symphony Orchestra. Prostitution is probably the oldest profession in existence. What is "Shocking" about it? We are not discussing anything genuinely reprehensible like working for the IRS

>>DO you throw (dump) her/him?

Depends if you are an idiot and a bigot or not.

>>How important is it that his person TRULY loves you

It is all that matters, subject to to the "health" issues I alluded to above.

>>I know it may be alright for some or more than others can >>handle

Some people are so closed minded/control freakish they can't cope with a person believing in a different god (or gods) ...or possibly eating meat when they are vegetarian. This is not a really a specific 'relationship' issue ...it is about how much one person can apprecate the possibility (in at least abstract terms) of a world view different to their own. If they can't then they are a 'fundamentalist' ...by definition.

Eryk

Posted by: Texas Proud

I disagree with Eryk...

If you find out that she was a prostitue, then to me I would dump her.

I do not care if it is in the past, she made a decision to sell her body (and I mean with any man to have sex) for money. This is not behavior that I can 'forgive' even if I was not there when it happened. There is no reason to do this as you can get a job SOMEWHERE and survive.. or get some welfare (and there is a lot here)...

I would say the same thing for someone who had sex with a lot of people (say 200 plus for sure, but who knows)...

Again, to me this person can not make the commitment that I would want... as they have already shown they can not make one...

Posted by: tvoyznakomi

In this hypothetical situation, "if she was a prostitute at some time in her past," (I'm assuming not currently):

If she lied to me about it, (directly, or by omission), she'd get the hook. Good-bye.

If she told me about it when asked, I would be neutral about it.

If she volunteered the information (told when not asked), she'd get extra points, that's the mark of a keeper

Posted by: Eryk

Quote:

[i]There is no reason to do this as you can get a job SOMEWHERE and survive.. or get some welfare (and there is a lot here) [/B]

I was addressing the matter in abstract terms, not in reference to US or EU welfare support systems. There are plenty of places in the world where you either sleep with men for money or die ...and worse, your children die too. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Eryk

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by Eryk
I was addressing the matter in abstract terms, not in reference to US or EU welfare support systems. There are plenty of places in the world where you either sleep with men for money or die ...and worse, your children die too. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Eryk

Sorry, but the question is one of judgement. I only talked to a few ladies while in the Ukraine, but it seems that some are making do with $50 per month living with family... it would be very easy to sell themselves for money as they are a young beautiful woman, but they do not.

Again, it is a choice they make and I do not belive that people will 'die' if they do not... there are so many other ways and so many other people who are very worse off and do not resort to this.. it is an easier way for them, but again it is thier decision.

And, I respect your thought on this. It is just different than mine.

Posted by: Eryk

>>Sorry, but the question is one of judgement.

I agree ..."judgement" ..., and as I quoted, "Judge not lest ye be judged" ...you might not agree with that of course, but if you don't then you need to argue with someone a bit more 'senior' in the great scheme of things than me than me

>>Again, it is a choice they make and I do not belive that people >>will 'die' if they do not

Then you are simply "wrong". I mean no offence by this, but it seems fairly clear to me from what you say that you have never lived anywhere outside the "Western world" (and I mean *lived* ...not "visited").

>> there are so many other ways and so many other people who >>are very worse off and do not resort to this..

Tripe. People "worse off" than those I have in mind here are already dead.

>>And, I respect your thought on this. It is just different than >>mine

I respect your position also, but I really think you need to spend a decade or so in Africa, SE Asia or E Europe as a "resident" before imposing WASP preconceptions upon everyone else.

Eryk

Posted by: Texas Proud

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eryk
[B] "Judge not lest ye be judged" .

Not a problem, but we make judgements about people every day and a lot of them are based on our upbringing or a few seconds of looking. How often does a smelly begger come up to you and ask for money? You make a judgement of him right away without knowing just what you see and your history.

>>Then you are simply "wrong". I mean no offence by this, but it seems fairly clear to me from what you say that you have never lived anywhere outside the "Western world" (and I mean *lived* ...not "visited").<<

I will bet you that less than 1% of people who are prostitutes would DIE if they were not one. The few places where it might happen are places that I would not be looking for a wife anyhow.

>>Tripe. People "worse off" than those I have in mind here are already dead.<<

No comment.

>>I respect your position also, but I really think you need to spend a decade or so in Africa, SE Asia or E Europe as a "resident" before imposing WASP preconceptions upon everyone else.<<

Africa I will give you, but not E Europe. I will bet that there are many women who are from the E Europe that will say they could 'survive' without resorting to prostitution.... Most of the women who go into prostitution are drug addicts as it is an EASY way to get money.

So, I still stand by my WASP thinking that someone who was a prostitute is someone that I would not want to marry for any reason.

But, I like the debate.

Posted by: Eryk

>>How often does a smelly begger come up to you and ask for >>money? You make a judgement of him right away without >>knowing just what you see and your history.

Naturally you make some assumptions and deductions, but you do not have to "judge". I do not classify someone begging in the streets or otherwise engaging in improvised panhandling (selling crap in the metro station for example) as "bad". The vast majority of such "beggars" here are babushkas, many of them over 70 ...somehow I doubt they are all alcoholics and drug addicts.

>>I will bet you that less than 1% of people who are prostitutes >>would DIE if they were not one. The few places where it might >>happen are places that I would not be looking for a wife >>anyhow.

I agree. There are VAST numbers of prostitutes in the western world who are enganged in the profession simply as a career choice.

>>Africa I will give you, but not E Europe. I will bet that there are >>many women who are from the E Europe that will say they >>could 'survive' without resorting to prostitution....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4532617.stm

>>Most of the women who go into prostitution are drug addicts >>as it is an EASY way to get money.

No, most of them are young girls with no other options.

>>So, I still stand by my WASP thinking that someone who was a >>prostitute is someone that I would not want to marry for any >>reason.

So you think: "Let he is without sin cast the first stone." is a load of weak minded, immoral rubbish?

Eryk

Posted by: Pin Boy

one of the saddest scenes i saw when i was in ukraine at xmas time was an old woman (babaushka) sitting on a small stool on the sidewalk near a kiosk outside my ex-gf's apartment building selling...stuff...can't remember exactly what she was selling...her legs were exposed or only covered by some thin stockings, she had only a scarf around her head, not a hat...i saw her early in the day when we headed out to center city. then i saw her late i the evening when i ran outside to get something at the kiosk...she was there well over 12 hours...i said to myself, "there but for the grace of god go I." i put some money in her hands after i made my purchase and hustled back into the building.

my point is that eryk probably has an excellent point. many woman may not have anything to sell or make money with but their bodies in the FSU.

some scenes and experiences there touched me profoundly and made me better understand how fortunate i am....i will tell another one that was an eye opener for me...i met an extreemely pretty girl in odessa named inna...met at a social...she was the girl i should have chosen, but i didn't and still have much regret. anyway, i met her on friday of the weekend social. she came back to see me on sunday. she spoke just a tiny bit of english. i went to dinner with her and the interpreter on monday. had a wonderful time and she was on my mind. had plans to see her later in the week. on wednesday evening, knowing that she did not speak much english, i decided to call her anyway to say hello and by doing this i hoped she would get the idea that i was thinking of her. so i did and we managed to say hello. then, in a halting way, she managed to say, "i have little money for cell phone", meaning that she could not be on the phone long because she had little time on her cell minutes. i felt pity for her, maybe that's not the correct word, maybe it is.

i spent time with her on three evenings in the same week. each time she wore the same white pants but a different top. i noticed she had a safety pin to hold the pants where they had a small split at the seam. it was an image that helped me to understand that this is a very, very different economic climate than the US. i wouldn't go out to get the mail witht a split in my pants! but here was a woman of great beauty and personal pride but didn't have the wherewithal for a second decent pair of summer slacks.

she had such dignity and pride in her appearance. sometimes i can still get a whiff of her perfume in my imagination. then i see american woman who couldn't even be bothered to look in a mirror before they leave the house. but i digress and that point has been made many, many times on this forum.

sometimes i would be in great restaurant in odessa and it was like being in new york city. then 100 hundred yards down the road you wondered what century you were in.

yes, do not judge another until you have walked in that person's shoes. we truly do not know what we would do in a situation unless we actually were in that position.

pin boy

Posted by: FrancoPUA

[QUOTE=RobOhioGuy]For arguements sake, let us assume you have, in general, a happy relationship wtih your GF/BF or Fiance(e) and one day through casual conversation with someone else that knows your partner, you learn that the reason they got divorced is not at all what they told you.
[QUOTE]

ALL divorced people have OWN versions of what happened. I would say I would be worried if the lie was structured so to be a lack of respect to me and especially if it can cause real problems to me.

I would put her after this on little bit stricter follow up about lying in general and if I would find out that she tells other lies I would evaluate my relationship again.

But this is normal: the counterpart is always depicted as the copy of the Devil by divorced people..

I remember a proverb saying:"Everybody tells lies but not everyone is a lier"

Posted by: paulLiverpool

[QUOTE I remember a proverb saying:"Everybody tells lies but not everyone is a lier" QUOTE]

Very true, everybody tells little lies, and anyone who says they don't is a true "liar"

Rob, it all depends on what was ''omitted or lied about''? only you know the full extent of the story so only you can guage the situation. If it is bad enough for you to question her whole integrity then you know what the right decision is. trust is so important in a relationship but unfortunately we so often let our hearts rule our head sometimes, I myself learned that the hard way, I knew early on I couldn't trust my ex completely, my intstincts told me things were not right but I loved her and I made excuses for her when things were obviously not right, like the song says

"all who love are blind" and that is so true. in future I will trust my own instincts and if things don't seem right they probably aren't, and what it eventually leads to is one horrible journey, I wouldn't go through that nightmare again for anyone. So if you cannot trust her know mate you never will be able to.

Paul

Posted by: paulLiverpool

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvoyznakomi

In this hypothetical situation, "if she was a prostitute at some time in her past," (I'm assuming not currently):

If she lied to me about it, (directly, or by omission), she'd get the hook. Good-bye.

If she told me about it when asked, I would be neutral about it.

If she volunteered the information (told when not asked), she'd get extra points, that's the mark of a keeper

Good points.

I personally wouldn't have a problem if my new intended confessed to me she used to be a prostitute as this was the only method of feeding kids, prevention of starvation etc. etc.

I will say this: many of you would be surprised at exactly the lengths you would actually go to in order to survive, even those of you who are jumping back in your seats now scoffing at the Idea of prostitution, (no way you might say)

I will leave you with this thought, plane crashes high in the snow capped mountains, recuers can't find crash site, survivors are starving and end up eating the flesh of dead passengers to survive,

if you had asked those people a week or so before the flight about whether they would have ever considered resorting to cannableism to survive they would probably have thrown up at the mere thought of it, yet put in extreme circumstances they ate the flesh of another human being. that actually happened and it wasn't the first time either, history records such incidents. people end up killing other people when circumstances dictate, the old lady an earlier poster mentioned in old raggedy clothes begging for a living 12 hours a day in the cold, why does she do this? because she enjoys it? certainly not, its all about circumstances, you never no what life is going to throw at you and how you have to act in order to deal with that situation at the time.

so in comparison selling ones body in order to feed and clothe your family is no sin, self rightousness is a bad trait and for those people who advocate such traits beware cos life is likely to come and bite your ass to teach you a lesson.

Paul

Posted by: KyDale

Rob,
I think the question should be one of self reflection. Can you over look this or not? Only you truly know you. Many people can put infidelity behind them. Many can not. Some people can live accepting their love's past (be it prostitution or anything else), some can not. Are you always going to wonder if the truth is being presented to you because of this incident? This is a GREAT place to ask, as so many people have so many experiences and opinions. In the end, only the guy in the mirror can answer this for you.

Dale

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

I could post a lot fuller response to this, but it's late and I'm tired.

However, consider this; it's easy to summarily dismiss a woman who has worked as a prostitute as 'undesireable' - but that woman is only hurting herself. How many people forgive past indiscretions such as picking an apple up when walking past a greengrocers, when a teenager? despite all else, that's theft, and hurts another.

Or maybe taken someone else's drink in a bar, or cheated on their timesheet at work, or any other of a host of misdemeanours we class as trivial? But all things that hurt someone else - and where there was absolutely no need.

I know which of the two I'd rather be with.

Ade

Posted by: Pin Boy

ade, serious discussion aside...i never thought of, or ever witnessed, someone taking another person's drink???? this forum is good for far more than i ever imagined!

congratulations on your relationship!!

pin boy