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Sevastopol
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Posted by: E.T.

Dear friends,

I have lately had the somewhat mixed pleasure of visiting Sevastopol in Ukraina, and I thought, that I would let you share my experiences, as I believe, that I have been exposed to a rather sophisticated form of SCAMMING. And maybe my story could save somebody else from repeating my mistakes.

In my case, I'm to old and careful to fall for the usual SCAMMING-tricks like asking for money for passports, visas, transport, medicine etc. I was actually let into a family- and friendshipgroup, where SCAMMING obviously was not considered especially immoral or criminal, so it was more or less accepted as standardbehaviour.

But to the start of the story. I got net-dating contact with this Ukrainian woman, who presented herself as an assistant professor of economy at the university in Sevastopol. I could on the datingsite, she used, see, that she was an extraordinary active member, with several hours of daily on-line activity. After a few weeks of contact between us, we decided to try our luck together, meaning that I should visit her in Sevastopol. This plan was made on the basis of a FORMAL agreement, that we should abstain from other net-dating in the meantime and close down our various accounts/profiles. This woman then informed me, that she would be very busy at her job in the nearest future, with no possibility of writing to me, and then she disappeared from the scene. After a week's silence, I got suspicious and took a peep at the datingsite, and sure enough, there she was, happily spending hours. And here my stupidity started (but alas didn't end). When I confronted her with her obvious lying, she informed me, that she considered being on dating-sites was a kind of work (which it probably is for her). I let it pass; I know how many people go on dating-sites just for the thrill, and it's not all the world.

I went there, got installed in a flat of my own (where we lived together, making our personal relationship into an engagement), and I was presented to her friends after a few days. And here the fun starts. We went out for a cup of coffee and some ice-cream for the ladies, and I, being the host, found a decent, clean and comfortable place, where we could be, without me being totally skinned by some of the local, posh tourist-traps, charging up to 3 times normal price. First this friend told me, that it was customary for russian/ukrainian men would give presents at not less than preferably US$ 500 to demonstrate their undying love to their sweethearts. I doubt many local men has that kind of money and personally rejected the idea. Whereas the friend got really unpleasant and aggressive and my girlfriend became actively hostile towards me because of my tightness. "I had shamed her out in front of her friends".

This nonsense continued in various ways, for all the three months we lived together there. My girlfriend were not much at home (god knows what she was doing?), explained this with a heavy work-burden at the university, and I started helping her out with US$ 100 a month, so we could have more time together. She was not more home for that, and we ofcourse had some nasty arguments about it.

I also paid her food, daily living-costs plus invested in presents for maybe $500. Altogether I invested maybe $1.000-2.000 directly in her in the period, I lived there. Plus my own living-costs and transport. And all the time we had almost daily fights about the various status-symbols, she wanted me to give her. I never gave in though.

The whole period was filled with lies, deceit and dishonesty. All of this happened with her friends and family around, and nobody reacted. So my morale is, don't even trust them, even if you've been let into their private circles.

At the end, I was told, that my income in my homecountry was to small to support her in style (I have a very stable, if not luxurious economy), that I was expected to support her family also (something never mentioned from the beginning). So I finally gathered my wits and went home.

Now I've had her put on anti-SCAM-lists, and consider also to contact an embassy or two. I later found out, that all the while we were living together, she still had her dating-site profiles activated, (I found 4 myself) and had some contact going with other men.

Travelling through Ukraina I have later heard Sevastopol described (both by ukrainians and foreigners) as "The city of sin" (only much worse words were used).

Posted by: fly4fun

Interesting comment about Sevastopol.
There are four of us men keeping in constant contact about our experiences dealing with women from Sevastopol and here's the story in a nutshell.
Not one of us have found a ligit girl from there. This spans all age ranges so is not confined to say an older guy hitting on a much younger woman.
This also spans all agencies that you can think of so is not just pertaining to free sites but some pay sites as well.

You just know there are many fine ladies from there but the bad ones seems to have a better handle on the internet process and how to use it to their advantage. This is probably the case on contacting RW in general but seems to be more widespread in Sevastopol than others we've encountered.

The worse part of all this is the latest scams only come after you have spent the money to go.

Posted by: E.T.

Dear Fly4fun,

thanks for your reply. Considering the amount of people living in Sevastopol, there must of necessity also be some decent women amongst them. But in my case, it was obvious, that most, if not all, of the women in my former girlfriend's group/clique had foreign boyfriends or were looking for one, and they were working together closely to further this aim. I'm talking about an age-group of women 40-50 years old.

Apart from just being bitter and self-righteous about my own situation, I also actually feel it as a civic duty to try to stop SCAMMERs. After all they are plain criminals.

I can live with my loss of money, but the humiliation of being used as a "thing" is harder to take. So one of my reasons for writing here is also to learn more about what you can do, AFTER you've been SCAMMED. If enough of us fight the problem actively, it will be so much harder for the SCAMMERs to continue.

So do you, or any other reader of this, have any suggestions about what to do (I don't expect to get my money back, I just want an exposure of the SCAMMER).

As I have said already, I have contacted a few anti-SCAM lists, and put this woman's name there.

But how is it, if I make a personal exposure, giving name, adress and other known information out publicly?
(I have enough documentation the support a lot of my claims). Is this legal?

And how do the various foreign embassys react to reports of SCAMMERs? One would think, that immigration-authorities would be interested in such. After all it will save their respective countries from a lot of later problems.

And how do the local authorities and/or media react to this?

Any suggestion will be recieved gratefully.

Posted by: inlove

I'm trying to see in what way you have been scammed, and I cannot find any. You went to Sevastopol, lived there with a woman for 3 months, paying for all expenses. Your relationship did not go anywhere because the woman concluded that you cannot support her well enough. What's the big deal? Happens all the time..

You have spent $1000 on a woman over the perios of 3 months..Man, you would not have spent any less having a relationship with a woman at home - dinners at nice restaurants, movies, plays, weekend gateway trips, small presents.. Having a relationship is generally expensive.. It is considerably more expensive to have a relationship with a woman living in another country, because you will have to pay for your and hers airline tickets, housing, immigration costs on top of the dinners and presents. Then you will have to completely support her when she is here and cannot find a job for 2 years, and yes, she would want to send money to her family in FSU once in a while..

Of course, you can avoid the majority of these expences if you are in a relationship with an independent American woman who pays for her own dinners. But that's not what you want, is it? You want a "traditional" woman, so then quit whining about the money..

Posted by: searcher

In his case I don't think he is "whining" per se but rather alarmed by her behavior.

The money was just subject of her demands but it could have been anything such as attention or control.

In his case I wouldn't refer to it as a scam either but definately a difference in expectations and ideas.

I don't know about the "customary" part as that (expecting large monetary gifts) but perhaps there was something in particular that alarmed him.

I also think the family was probably "minding their own business" as it was her relationship and her decision.

Posted by: E.T.

Dear Inlove,

I obviously must have expressed myself badly first time. I shall try again.

I gave a certain amount of money to my "fiancée" to be able to see her more often. In 3 months, we had 4 whole days together, which I found too little. The rest of the time she was "out??". And the money was given on the specific condition, that it should help create a family-life. In my opinion a "traditional" woman is at least home sometimes. Not so much for drudgery (I did that), but simply because I had travelled a long way to meet her, and wanted to be together with her.

The given money represented 25% of her usual income, so it should have given her ample possibility to stay at home a bit more. But she just took the money and ignored the agreement. And that's SCAMMING. An agreement is an agreement.

I also mentioned, that while we officially were "engaged", she still kept up contact with other men. It's somewhat outside my tolerance to be so modern in my outlook on a relationship.

Fortunately I've never had to rely on all the various activities, you suggested as necessary to form a relationship (it's not so common in Europe, where I live), but I wouldn't have minded. It's not the money, I'm complaining about. It's the arrogance, I met.

My "fiancée" was well aware of my economical background all through our engagement, and didn't mind then. It was only, when I started to question her attitude to our relationship and keeping agreements the sudden objection came up. Honestly. Do YOU like being lied to?

I can only respect, if you offer to pay for your wife/girlfriend's family. But in my case, it was a condition, I first was offered quite late in the relationship. I would have liked to know this at an earlier time.

I am aware, that I would have had to support my future wife in my homecountry. Something I easily could have done.

Posted by: inlove

Arrogance or no arrogance, there was no illegal activity on her part. Even more so, she was looking for an excuse not to write to you before you even showed up in Sevastopol. It seems to me like a good indication that a person is not interested in commiting herself to a relationship with you.

Did you think giving her money will free her from her job responsibilities? In what way?
She broke your agreement. I assume it was not a written contract stating that she will stop working to spend more time with you in exchange for money.. If there was , you can try to get your money back through court, although I don't think you will be very successful.. You knew that she did not take her dating profiles down before you arrived in Sevastopol, but ingnored ithis fact and decided to proceed with the trip and spent 3 months living with her. Nobody twisted your arm, you could have turned around and left any time you wanted.

People get lied to and cheated on in other relationships as well.. Would you notify local authorities and media if a girlfriend from your home country has cheated on you? So why should local or immigration authorities and/or media get involved in the outcome of your unfortunate romance? Consider this as a learning experience, and pay attention to warning signs early on..

Posted by: Pin Boy

cut the guy a break...4 days out of 3 months...she had it all planned from the start...belive, i have seen it myself...she was a user and that may not be a crime per se, but it is extremely wrong no matter how you look at it and she deserves whatever unhappiness comes her way

pin boy

Posted by: Ade

Uh, I don't get it; why did you put up with this for 3 months? Sounds like two weeks max would've been enough to realise you don't need it.

It's not like this was a long-term relationship you were trying to hold on to.

So all I can add is, again, why did you put up with it for 3 months?

Ade

Posted by: E.T.

Dear Inlove,

I can see, that our different cultural background gives us a very different outlook on life. First of all, I would never consider to make a written contract with a person, I was going to be married with about such minor amounts of money. It would be a rudeness and a sign of distrust. Though hindsight now would have made it wise, if I had wanted to pursue the situation legally to get the money back. Which is not my intention. This is a moral question, rather than an economical one.

Secondly, it's not a question of how big a sum it was. I don't care so much about $500, it's just that someone I loved and trusted simply cheated me. If it had been $50, 500 or 5.000 it would have been equally unpleasant. And a verbal agreement is as legally binding (at least here) as a written one. It's only more difficult to prove later, what happened, if you don't have a written contract. But I personally always keep my agreements, and I expect others to do the same. As said before, this is a moral question.

Thirdly: Yes, she had a side-kick job, which the money enabled her to skip. but she was still not more around.

And finally. Yes I would certainly try to do some legal action, if someone from my homecountry did something like this. We are not all angels here, but people are generally trustworthy, and it's definitely not done to cheat like this.

But you are completely right, it has been a lesson in dishonesty, and I have now learnt, that Sevastopol is not a place I want to return to. May I suggest you to read the last two lines of the letter from fly4fun.

It has been nice of you to give me moral advice, but that was actually not exactly, what I asked for, so I prefer to continue the communication with people, who answer my stated questions.

And I can't help wondering, if you actually sympathise with confidence-tricksters (if you don't want to use the word SCAMMER here). I find, that this kind of activity ought to be stopped, whereas my only fault in the situation has been naivity.

My best wishes

E.T.

Posted by: Vyesna

I would label this gold digging rather than scamming, although I guess it's a fine distinction. Just another reason not to get engaged too fast, or do anything too fast when you don't really know the person.

Posted by: E.T.

Dear Pin Boy,

thanks for your moral support. You more or less expressed in a few lines, what I've tried to do in all these epistles. At my present mood, I would not feel that some heartache on her part also would be justified, but just so much, that it would stop her from repeating, what she did. You simply don't treat people, as she does. At least not in my book. Also I know, that some repercussions from the situation has started to come back to her already. For various reasons, she were forced to make some kind of minor confession to the university-authorities where she works, and they didn't like it much.

And to Ade,

call my attitude "giving her the benefit of doubt". It could be called naivity, as I put it above, but I rather give people a chance, than turn on my heel, every time there are problems. Besides wiser people than me told me in Ukraina, that they do have some cultural patterns, which for westerners are difficult to understand. So i decided to take a chance and wait. I knew already after two weeks, that it was tricky, what she did. But now, when the situation is rather clearcut for me, I'm willing to take action.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by E.T.
Dear Inlove,

I can see, that our different cultural background gives us a very different outlook on life.

That's definitely true.

Quote:

First of all, I would never consider to make a written contract with a person, I was going to be married with about such minor amounts of money. It would be a rudeness and a sign of distrust. Though hindsight now would have made it wise, if I had wanted to pursue the situation legally to get the money back. Which is not my intention. This is a moral question, rather than an economical one. Secondly, it's not a question of how big a sum it was. I don't care so much about $500, it's just that someone I loved and trusted simply cheated me. If it had been $50, 500 or 5.000 it would have been equally unpleasant. And a verbal agreement is as legally binding (at least here) as a written one. It's only more difficult to prove later, what happened, if you don't have a written contract. But I personally always keep my agreements, and I expect others to do the same. As said before, this is a moral question.

Thirdly: Yes, she had a side-kick job, which the money enabled her to skip. but she was still not more around.

And finally. Yes I would certainly try to do some legal action, if someone from my homecountry did something like this. We are not all angels here, but people are generally trustworthy, and it's definitely not done to cheat like this.

You don't have any legal grounds to sue anybody in a situation like this. You can spend your life trying to prove that she broke your oral agreement, everybody will see it as a rant of disgrunted ex-lover.. Legally she did not break any laws. She might be wrong morally, but definitely not by the standards of her immediate social environment.

Quote:

But you are completely right, it has been a lesson in dishonesty, and I have now learnt, that Sevastopol is not a place I want to return to. May I suggest you to read the last two lines of the letter from fly4fun.

I've been to Sevastopol two times. A very nice city.

Quote:

It has been nice of you to give me moral advice, but that was actually not exactly, what I asked for, so I prefer to continue the communication with people, who answer my stated questions.

And I can't help wondering, if you actually sympathise with confidence-tricksters (if you don't want to use the word SCAMMER here). I find, that this kind of activity ought to be stopped, whereas my only fault in the situation has been naivity.
E.T.

I would agree with Vesna. Your ex-girlfriend is a gold digger, not a scammer. There are plenty of men who feel empowered by giving expensive gifts to women and would prefer to "buy" a woman this way, instead of investing in a honest long term relationship. This is the kind of man your ex-girlfriend is looking for, she does not need you. And she expressed it from the beginning, you just chose not to see the signs. You've chosen to stick around for 3 months, and continue to give her money, even though after 2 weeks you've already knew it was "tricky"..

Welcome to the grown up world. You are responsible for your own choices.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

ET,

I don't know where you "phone home" to, but I've been all over the world and commonly see situations where both men and women lie to dating partners and use them, look for something material out of their relationships, and decide they don't like someone they thought they were interested in before, but stay with that someone for a while because they are getting something they want out of the relationship (money, sex, whatever).

Since you are from some part of the galaxy of which I am apparently unaware, where "...people are generally trustworthy, and it's definitely not done to cheat...," then perhaps you should return to this Mayberry and find your Helen Crump there.

Despite all your complaints about this woman, I think what she did was far better than leading you on with a big game, letting the relationship go another 6 months or 2 years while she collected all she could from you and pretended to be in love with you, spending all her time with you as you would have wanted, instead of following her sincere heart and spending less time with you as she began to realize you weren't what she was seeking. So I don't think this was a scam because the signs were so evident and obvious, even from before your meeting. And as you admit, your thoughts about relationships are quite different from what she described as the man of her dreams, so how can you blame her if she quickly lost interest in you?

I therefore think it would be immoral for anyone of us to help you try to get your revenge on this woman by posting her to scam sites, etc.

I have been to Sevastapol and it is a lovely city filled with honest, good and true people. Certainly like in EVERY city (perhaps even your own?) there are also to be found people who are evil and sinful, but for you to defame an entire city because you are angry about one relationship is, in my opinion, quite uncultured of you.

Flash

Posted by: Ade

Hi,

I'm not a 'turn on my heels' type of guy, but with a woman I don't know giving me a hard and unpleasant time - and where I have no real emotional investment - there's nothing wrong with cutting your losses as soon as you see them.

Giving an almost-total stranger the benefit of the doubt at your material and emotional cost is never a good idea.

I'd agree with others that, whatever this woman was doing, she can't be called a scammer; there doesn't seem any pretence on her part. Looks like you should have just told her where to go a bit sooner. In this case, you played along for too long. Doesn't make her attitude right, but you've really no call to be labelling her.

We all make mistakes, the trick is to learn from them.

Ade

Posted by: Pin Boy

a gold digger would at least give the guy the time of day once in a while...maybe... but it is valid to ask why someone would put up with this for so long, but that's an easy question to ask if you are not the person involved...always not so easy to detach yourself...we do not all act so rationally in situations where emotions play such a prominent role...so maybe this gold digger is not a scammer, but she is SCUM...

pin boy

Posted by: E.T.

Dear Pin Boy,

thanks again for your attitude and understanding. And fly4fun for good information.

For most of the rest I don't think, I have found anything relevant in the answers, I have otherwise recieved. A lot of describing the predatory jungle out there as "reality", and even expecting me to accept such values. I still believe in common decency, honesty and trust as a starting-point (from both parts) and I'm willing to take my chances. In other words, I'm an idealist. To start with the suggested wariness (and strangely enough also feeling a very hostile attitude to me in some of the answers) implies, that I have come to the wrong place from the start.

So guys, goodbye. I'll move on. Consider the dialogue as ended.

My best wishes

E.T.

Posted by: Pin Boy

yeah e.t., you didn't get a fair shake by that woman or in some of the forum replies....yes, i also tend to trust people until they give me a reason not to trust them, but it seems lately many of the posts are cautionary in tone, which may not be a totally bad thing because in the year and a half I have been a forum member there has been a good number of guys who have come and gone because they have been burned (remember KnightKadosh, and I'm really curious about whatever happened to Klawsite)

so good luck to you...don't totally give up, if you throw enough at the wall, something sticks

pin boy

Posted by: fly4fun

Even though I was posting a fairly negative post, I am not about to give up. I think the biggest problem right now for any of us is weeding through the garbage that is out there.
This is not just a RW thing. All you have to do is look at any of the dating sites with AW and you can see the same type of things happening. A scam is a scam whether it's in Russia or US soil.

The problem, as I've stated before, is the level of suspicion that many people carry is now getting to the point of not trusting even the good ones.

Probably this is going to sound strange but the most honest sounding emails I get is from free sites. Yes, there are the usual scam type emails but I have never gotten the detailed type responses (ladies are actually responding to what you wrote) from agency sites. Most are copy and paste with your name inserted in appropriate places.
A few of us shared our letters and different ladies were using the exact same letter. The form it took was a generic letter separated by paragraphs. Copy and paste paragraphs with more personal paragraphs inserted where necessary.

The best one I ran into was a guy sent me an email with a ladies photo attached. I sent a photo back she had sent me. Next letter he was upset. Seems HE had taken the photo she sent to me. LOL

Bob

Posted by: fly4fun

I was re-reading this thread due to seeing something come up that jogged my memory and was immediately struck by an idea that may or may not have merit..

I realize that it probably wouldn't be legal and at the very least unkind, to post photos of ladies you're corresponding with but I wonder if there would be any benefit to simply a list of ladies that are being corresponded with and their general location?
Maybe just first names only.

I found out quite by accident that someone on this board was writing to the same lady I was and it turned out to be a scam set up by the agency. (probably not the lady but we'll never know)

Without talking about the lady on the board you would still be able to contact someone who is in correspondence with someone who seems to fit the same profile and you could simply ask if it was the same person?

This would have been VERY helpful in my case. What do others think of this idea?

PS I've just spent quite a bit of time corresponding with a lady who works at an agency in Ukraine and the information, at least to me is an eye opener. I'll start another thread about it.

Bob

Posted by: E.T.

Dear fly4fun,

thanks for your mail. I myself have also wondered, if there are any legal restrictions about exposing suspected scammers, but as these women already are advertising themselves on a public site with photos and text, I don't think it is a problem. Anybody wrongly accused would probably object, whereas those who really are scammers wouldn't like to get involved in any legal situations.

Concerning your idea of cooperation between scammees, I wholehearted agree with you. But I doubt, if knowing only the first name alone would help. I have the suspicion, that the scammers change name on their profiles ever so often. If we cooperate, then it would be possible to send personal mails to each other with the information we get, this way it wouldn't be public or possibly illegal.

The woman I talked about in my first letter is now out on the net again after a pause of some months. She was probably lying low, waiting for me to loose interest in the case. In her new profiles she has on one of them her "old" name, but in another a screen-name, which can't give any leads to her real identity. She has also changed her address from Sevastopol to Simferopol. Something I have hard to believe. She has also changed her profession a bit. I have informed the various dating-sites about my suspicions and my experiences with her, but I am doubtful, if anything comes out of it.

But if we were more scammees sending our suspicions, I guess, that the datingsite managers would listen to it.

I certainly will follow your new thread.

Greetings

Posted by: E.T.

PS I have sent you a private mail. Hope you get it.

Posted by: fly4fun

I know the lady you're talking about and she has talked about you to me...
Do you have access to a messenger service like Windows messenger???
My address to search is web4search@yahoo.com

Posted by: fly4fun

I've changed my mind a bit since the prior post. I am now TOTALLY convinced that posting a lady's first name and location is an excellent idea.
I just got word that one of the ladies I'm writing to is the SAME ONE that E T is talking about.

This makes two I've heard about by accident through this board. Imagine what the real number might be if this were more a formal part of this board???

I'm not suggesting this be in a public forum to discuss but only a way for someone to at least post the name and location and see if they get a private message from someone.

I know of at least one guy who would have saved thousands of dollars if I could have contacted him sooner..

Trust me, the girls have a network it is only us guys who don't.

Bob

Posted by: E.T.

Considering, that I already have tried to have a relationship with the woman in question, I guess, it would be a good idea to do as fly4fun suggested, so here she is.

Elena; depending on which datingsite you will find her, her age is 46 or 47. She tells you, that she lives in Simferopol, but this is not true. She still lives in Sevastopol. I know this for a fact. She's in the teaching business.

In one of her profiles (on Matchdoctor), she uses a screen-name, which has no connection with her real name. This screen-name has a definite oriental origin.

If any of you believe he has contact with this woman, you are wellcome to write me a private mail, and I shall give you more information. I have known this woman for more than half a year, and I am beginning to understand her patterns. She takes initiativ to establish net-contacts, her criterias are the man's income, and she will have a LOT of contacts going on at the same time. When we were "engaged" it took her an hour to
terminate all her contacts, she still kept after our "engagement" (she only did it, because I insisted).

Fly4fun has probably avoided a substantial loss of money and/or emotional pain. So I still suggest, that we operate more closely together.

Posted by: E.T.

Well, Elena has been hard at it lately, especially on the datingsites "matchdoctor.com" and "freepersonals.ru", where the managements are now aware of her activities. So they close her profiles down, as quick as she makes them. In the last few days I have met her on "matchdoctor" on 3-4 different profiles. I think, that she must be pretty desperate by now, because even if it is obvious, that is the same person wrting these profiles, she has started lying about herself. Changing her personal description concerning age
(she is now either 46 OR 47), her address (now she is mostly saying, that she lives in Simferopol, but sometimes she goes back to Sevastopol, which is her real address), her profession (before she was an ordinary university-teacher. Now she is occasionally a professor), her family (she has a son, and sometimes she doesn't). Lately she has made her profiles so short and without photos, that it is difficult to get any impression of, who has made them. There is at least one on matchdoctor, I believe is her. She is probably using it as a base for contacting anybody, who has an income of $50.000 or more.

When she still used photos in her profiles, most of these were at least 10 years old.

If you find her somewhere else, I would be grateful, if you inform the rest of us. What I know at the present, she also has a profile on "fiance.com" and one on "freerussiansingles").

Personally I believe, that we can do a lot to prevent scammers by being vigilant and making our information public.

Posted by: E.T.

It seems, that I am not the only one, who consider Elena a scammer. I was just contacted by another guy, who had the same opinion of her, and told me, that her profile on free russian singles has been closed down, because she was suspected of scamming (and it was NOT me doing it). See it does lead somewhere, when we do something.

Posted by: E.T.

Elena T...... from Sevastopol alternatively Simferopol, (real name Olena T......), gives out her age as 46 or 47 (47 is correct). She has one son or none (one son is correct). Usually she is a teacher or even a professor. Probably just a teacher.

She usually puts her profiles on the big and completely free datingsites, but now she's gone "underground"
after her activities have been exposed.

I know for a fact, that she still has acces to the datingsite Matchdoctor, where she's hiding behind the photo of one of her friends I..., and I guess also under one of those profiles, which has no photo and only a small amount of text.

So if you are approached by someone from Ukraina, who seem to be reluctant of giving out details of herself from the Crimea region, be careful. Or if she dishes out a story about a guy, who's tricked her for money and who unjustified accuses her of being a scammer, you are wellcome to contact me for details.

I already has the name of two men, she's contacted, and I guess more will follow. She is very active, and usually takes contact with many men. Her sole motive for being on datingsites is to get money.

Posted by: E.T.

She never gives up.

Elena is now back as Ellie, 47, Sevastopol, on Freepersonals.ru. This time she only fakes her birthday, and has put 20 year old photos at the profile. Go take a look, before it's closed down. She gets her profiles closed down regularly, but make new ones just as regularly.

Posted by: E.T.

Bob's idea of a network for "us" is presently being discussed elsewhere. Sofar with a general discussion, but personally I'm convinced, that something will happen.

Posted by: John Q. Public

For full disclosure, take a trip into the disturbed mind of Lars Kargaard alias E.T. at http://datingtalk.info/cgi-bin/ikon...22;st=10Posted: Aug. 01 2005,23:22 My sister has lived in Italy for years and years, and she tells me, that they by now are catholics, the way we are lutherans, meaning only going there, if it's really necessary (OK, maybe a bit more). Calvinisn never got much influence in Scandinavia. Poland and Spain are probably the only countries, where the catholic church has any power. For some reason, religion never got around to Ukraina, at least not in Sevastopol, where I only saw one orthodox church. And Sevastopol is a fairly big town, could even with suburbs be called a city. And for those of you reading our fascinating story about E. and me (continuation will follow every week, stopping exactly at the most interesting and juicy part, so you'll have to read it again next week also. E.'s and my help to spread the popularity of anti-scamming sites). Who knows, she may even give her version of the story one day. Well, the new development is, that she has formed a kind of guerilla-group, whose aim is to spread disinformation in such a way, that nobody will believe, what I write about her. Maybe one of you guys would write to her and invite her here. She's been all over the place with dating-profiles, though I can't find her at her usual hunting-grounds now. But if I can't find her, then most other men can't either, and she's addicted to scamming, and like most other psychopaths with megalomania (amongst other things), she believes she's invulnerable. So she'll be around soon again. Besides she really wants to "win", she's a kind of powerfreak, so this is a challenge, she can't resist. It could be fun to have her here, just as they now-a-days have rock-concerts in churches. But I don't think, that she will admit to reading anything from me. I live in socalled "volentary simplicity" and once in a moment of probably eating some illegal herb or something like that, I gave half of my then nice fortune away. As E. lives in "committed greed" you can understand the ideological clashes, we had. She motivated our break-up (one of her many motivations for breaking up. If I ever get the time, I'll write a book about the half million things, a Sevastopol woman will not accept in a relationship) with, that she would be forced to eat only old, dry bread every day. Considering that she hated cooking, and in her own flat had a woman "doing for her", I cooked. I'm a decent vegetarian cook, and it's bl.... lie, that she only got dry bread every day. On sundays we got dry bread soaked in milk. Sorry, my mind seems to be wandering. I just came home from a motorcycle-trip, and it often makes me this way. But I will try not to digress so much. Her plan is simply to get me disqualified because of "being really sick mentally". I mean running after her all the time, making sleazy telephone calls (alas her committed greed telephones seem to be able to sort my number away. At the present I'm really bad off, because my need of sleaziness is overwhelming). Shortly: I'm the big, bad wolf with an implied (it's not said openly) schizofrenic leaning, and the best place for me, would probably be a nice, peaceful resort-home, as far from Sevastopol as possible. I hope, that you all understand, that I'm taking some artistic license, just to make this story better. We do need more subscribers in our little club. But take me on my word, this artistic license I use here, is not at all so impressing as when she writes her profiletexts, where there will be a different text for every taste. If you want a fearless alpine-climber, she'll probably have it ready for that purpose in a few minutes. If you want the little sexy wifie, she's definitely there already. The intellctual needs are covered by her being highly educated, as a book-keeper if I remember correctly (a fascinating subject, you'll never be bored). You name it, she's got it. But back to my insanity (we can just as well call things by their proper names), yes, it is correct, I am insane. I suffer from from panic-anxiety, and this is usually activated by being kicked out, dumped or left by my woman. So, what with my income less than 50 grand a year, not to mention the dried bread, it was really a tactical mistake to go to Ukraina after a wifie. So you see, don't believe a word of what I'm saying. I'm clearly totally underequipped at the higher levels. I will leave you to your own drab lives now, but I must mention one small fact. E. also suffers from panic-anxiety. I think, she forgot that in the enthusiasme of her little plan (but I have saved a letter from a period, she was there). And ofcourse her panic-anxiety is housebroken, whereas mine is the uncivilised scandinavian variety. Can you guess, what HER thing activating panic-anxiety is? You DID it, and you're right. Less than $50.000 a year, dry bread and loss of status. Whereas a loss of a husband really isn't so bad, considering that husbands are more or less alike, and come and go with boring regularity. You simply get used to them just being around, and if you could only remember their names, the only thing needed is 50......But we have already talked about that. You want to know the reason I'm so happy today. She got an american, and I have offers from two wonderful danish girls about contact. As some of you eventually will have intimate contact with her, if you only hang around long enough, I consider next week's writing should be called: "How to be the perfect Mister E".

Posted by: John Q. Public

More Lars at datingtalk.info: Quoting, "As always, I forgot something. Sweetie, where-ever you are, I will always love you. But that will create a problem, because I know your greedy, sneaky and deceitful little mind. And when your freedom fighters: "The liberation army of 50 grand a year" (from some guy, who doesn't really need those money, as much as you do), will eventually get around to this site (even revolutionaries like you need to go out sometime, at least on the net); and I also know your being glued to your PC, where you smell out money. So you will come around, just as a lot of us suckers will be "engaged" to you for a short, very short, while. So when you do get around, your first thoughts will be: "This is slander", "this is libel" and even "he's trying to make me look ridiculous" (and as THIS is unforgivable, because your secret panic-starter is to loose your hypocritical facade). And lastly the thought: "Is there a good lawyer around?" will pop up. So dream of my dreams, nectar of my life and drainer of my bank-account, whether you live in Sevastopol or Simferopol with your surprising flexibility and your deep attachment to honesty, YOU are not THAT Elena T....... I'm talking about. She will permanently be another Elena T.... I'm aware, that this will make our unending love, (it did last 3 months, probably somewhat of a record for you) really difficult. On the other hand, it will also make it more difficult for your lawyer. So I have to repeat: I'm talking about ANOTHER Elena T...... One who's not even living in Simferopol AND Sevastopol simultaneously. This one is living at the arctic circle, where there are not so many computers (or lawyers, though they seem to have a tendency to be everywhere, possibly with the exception of Ukraina, where I spent 2 weeks trying to find one) so she'll never get at me. And just in case, any resemblance to even that Elena T..... is purely coincidental"

Posted by: John Q. Public

And still more Lars, same site, page 5: "Hi everybody, today I must regret to admit, that wisdom is very far from me (did I hear faintest sigh of relief?). I can really recommend everybody, who likes to be plastered to take a period with low bloodpressure. I can't walk straight, I can't think etc. I couldn't care less, if someone out there believes my dick is only 40 cm.s long, that is, when idling. I'm more worried about the contrasts, which are growing everywhere. Maybe the immigrantsituation, which is based on refugees or like kind of situations is not exactly the same as with those marrying into a country, ... that is at first sight.In Scandinavia it was eventually discovered, that a part of the refugees burned themselves with cigarettes so as to prove they had been tortured, so it naturally irritated a lot of people on thew grounds of: Here we invite these people who really needs help, and we are willing to pay for them, and then one of their own compatriots "steal" one of the numbers of the yearly quota for immigrants (the system can only carry so many economically), thereby preventing one who needed it better, to get the help. So the feelings of people in general is (maybe a bit to negatively, I can't say): "is nothing sacred for these types, making imitations of the real needful". And I guess, that the same attitude can be seen, in marriages. On both sides of the cultural border, there will be good and bad, and nordsyd, I belive this will make any completely clearcut solution the the problem impossible. We'lll simply have to accept the idea from quantum-physics, that life is a statistical possibility. which never can give any specific small part a guaranty for a completely certain result. That why I believe, that the difference between Alex and my attitude to the appraoch of the problem, won't be a disagreement. We can ofcourse say, that the divorce-rate between FSUW and western men is extremely high (but the divorcerate in Russia between russians is also alarmingly high). Whereas a thaiwoman or a chinese, more often stayes married. I was teachiong in public school for some years, when I still lived in Denmark. And I worked together with a wonderful big, round woman, who was master of the firstgrade, parallel with my firstgrades. I guess it doesn't surprise anyone, if I tell, that I am what the freudians call a control-freak in certain ways, whereas the everybody's-mother I worked together with really practiced laissez-faire. There was almost no disciplin around her, and she didn't seem to mind, that everything looked as it was just at the brink of collaps. Strangely enough, we worked well together and had a good personal contact, and we discovered early, that the best anser to both our characters and the need of our pupils was, that we simply swapped a couple of our pupils. Exactly those, who absolutely didn't fit in with one of us. There were pupils, who were very extrovert in an aggressive way, wanting to dominate their surroundings, I got them, because "Mother" would be run over by them totally otherwise. On the other hand, there were those who were just natyrally noisy, because of a certain lack of direction and will. They needed someone, where they always could stand next to the teacher and hold her hand, They would have been destroyed by me. So in our effort to kind of talk, joke, think and maybe play our way to a "common" agreement about Alex' idea of a functional anti-scam activity, I am really very impressed by the already existing easy tone you have between yourselves. Some of you may have heard of the strange messages I got today, and while I was lying here and being intoxicated on lack of hemoglobin, Arie just took over, as he was there anyway, and tried to estalish some kind of contact with the rather peculiar being out there. I mean it might not even be E., or one of her gang. it could be someone from a flying saucer (they have a tendency to be somewhat confused, and that is the least one can say about the messages I recieved today). It felt great for me, I've only been here a short time, and to be accepted and helped in such an easigoing way, gives me hope for what we maybe can do together. Our relations are probably more important than to make a decision of a strict code. Have you guys known each other long?

Posted by: John Q. Public

Now, does anyone recall the Dreyfus Affair, how the generals loudly and publicly screamed, "Treason!", "Betrayal!", "German money!"; but when asked for proof, they said, "No! But let me whisper in your ear." Their evidence couldn't stand the light of day nor can Lars', for he would have long ago posted his proofs against Elena Tkachuk to credible fact checking anti scam sites like Scam Alert. Gentlemen, all you see here in Lars Kargaard is a sour rejected miserable man.

Posted by: E.T.

I regret to tell you, John who, that after you came into my life, it is much brighter. I appreciate our exchange of, maybe not communication, I hope, we'll to get around to that, but at least your will to get closer and closer to that point. You know my name, and I certainly would like to know yours. On background of my own 3 months depression after my stay in Sevastopol, where I have been on medication a while (now finished), maybe I can give you some suggestions about the benefits of psychofarmaka.

It's no shame to be out of balance sometimes.

I can for obvious reasons not follow this topic up on several forums at once, please feel free to roam around a while for yourself. You can always meet me again where we first met today.

There are obviously many parts of my character, you don't know well enough, and one is, that a constant repeating of the same letters, does not automatically make me answer them. Communication is a two-way process, and if you don't succeed in getting an answer the first time, try in another way, which I maybe feel more easy to respond to. It is not always, I find you meaningful. Can you make one of your hilarious and wonderful parodies out of this letter, please do so. I enjoy them.

And do try to get a grip on your understanding about how to handle evidence. I still don't have any idea of your interest in this topic, if you just take this as an academic point, or an interesting public discussion or if you feel, you represent E. In that case, I would be surprised, because if there's one thing she hates, it's public exposure of this kind. You are actually helping me in making her famous. Remember I was after all engaged to her half a year. Or do you need evidence for that also?

My best wishes

Lars

Posted by: E.T.

Sorry, the tranquilisers have made me slightly forgetful.

If the managers of this forum feel a need to use a moderator, I have no opinion of that. But to protect me from possible exaggerations or less pleasant comments about me from John, I do not feel it necessary. I like his charming ways, and I can't exactly say about myself, that I have been beating around the bush in this case, even if my language differs from John's. Fair's fair, let him use the language he knows and masters.