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russian men and sex?

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Posted by: MissEm

Hi all, I married a ukrainian man almost a year ago. I love him so very much. I've been reading alot of the posts and agree with alot of you on how sexy russian and ukrainian men are.
I dont think O'd ever be able to see an american man again.
Although, I am having a problem that he doesnt seem to think about, when we first started dating (as in all relationships) sex was incredible, now its 1 time a week if Im lucky and it lasts about 3 minutes. I have tried to talk to him about it and nothing has changed. I dont know what to do. I was curious, is this a culture thing??!


Posted by: inlove

No, It is not a culture thing.


Posted by: MissEm

So is it ok to try and talk to him about this?
He told me Ukrainian girls are not as forward about sex. Im so confused as what to do


Posted by: MissEm

maybe this will help, I met him when he was married (fake marriage) I told him I could no longer see him, he suggested he divorce his wife and marry me, in lust I agreed.
Our marriage was great but the sex changed almost immediatley. Then about two months ago I found out that he was going to get a "massage" from a girl he had been sleeping with before he met me. I confronted him, he said he just told her that so she'd stop asking him. Since then I've kept my eye on him and he's good, but the sex is not. We have a house together, etc. Our interview with immigration is this June. My ultimate fear is that he is using me for citizenship. But he is very affectionate, like a real husband should be. I am scared and confused......


Posted by: Vyesna

I think there might be some er...books to help you with that sort of thing.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by MissEm
So is it ok to try and talk to him about this?
He told me Ukrainian girls are not as forward about sex. Im so confused as what to do


If you are not happy about sex life, you have to talk to him about it. It is hard to give any advice not knowing your situation, but I think if you select gentle words, he will be more willing to discuss the problem. In my experience, men are very sensitive about things like a lack of libido or a poor sex performance, so try not to accuse him of anything, present the problem as the mutual one instead..
Forget about Ukranian girls. Who cares what they do? He is your husband, and both of you have to address the sex problem, if you wish this marriage to work..


Posted by: MissEm

I have tried to discuss this with him. I even explained to him that its making me feel insecure with our relationship. He says theres nothing to worry about, he's an old man. When I try to be intimate with him he says he's tired, he has a headache, etc.
Im a sensitive girl and sometimes find it intimidating to talk to him. Its easiest sometimes to send him emails explaining my feelings, so I do and he reads them and mentions nothing to me about it as if I never sent them. Tonight when he picks me up I think I will try one more time, I just dont know how to get the discussion going with out anyone getting upset.


Posted by: searcher

Welcome to the forum MissEm,


about his problem....

but first it is quite funny how you don't like AM (American Men), I say funny because actually it is a breath of fresh air, usually its AM complaining about AW LOL!

Well, no, that is not normal but his problem could be caused by fatigue, anxiety, excitement caused by anticipation, etc...

I'm not sure what to tell you in regards to how to talk to him about it but I do think he is perhaps suprised at how willingly and openly you talk about it.

I think eventually he will talk about it just don't be too demanding or demeaning, i'm sure you're not but just be a bit sensitive.


Posted by: Pin Boy

i think there's a lot more to this situation than we are hearing so it is hard to comment...

funny, anything mentioniong sex gets plenty of responses rather quickly. but, the posts regarding the death of the pope hardly get any responses...

pb


Posted by: MissEm

Nothing really more.
I am quite the sexual being, and he used to be too.
When I've talked to him about it before he says it has nothing to do with me. But since that time its gotten worse.
I hate to get into too much detail but, he doesnt do any of the work, he lays there. He will stay up late on the internet then come to sleep and its like he has "pity" sex with me so I wont be mad.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by MissEm
maybe this will help, I met him when he was married (fake marriage) I told him I could no longer see him, he suggested he divorce his wife and marry me, in lust I agreed.
Our marriage was great but the sex changed almost immediatley. Then about two months ago I found out that he was going to get a "massage" from a girl he had been sleeping with before he met me. I confronted him, he said he just told her that so she'd stop asking him. Since then I've kept my eye on him and he's good, but the sex is not. We have a house together, etc. Our interview with immigration is this June. My ultimate fear is that he is using me for citizenship. But he is very affectionate, like a real husband should be. I am scared and confused......


Cannot say anything about thit immigration thing.. He might be using you, he might not.. I would say that anybody who has been in a "fake marriage" would raise red flags right away, but I'm a cinical person, as many people on this forum have pointed out already, so it might be just me being too suspicious of others' intentions..


Posted by: MissEm

This is my fear (the immigration thing)
Im thinking maybe he's really not in love with me, which explains the lack of sex, but on the other hand he's great in every other way, so I try to tell myself he's just comfortable in our marriage or maybe bored with sex?


Posted by: inlove

How old is he, if you don't mind me asking?
On the other hand, it might be just his personal problem? See if you can convince him to try counseling together?


Posted by: MissEm

he is only 34 (I'm 26)
I dont think he would go to counseling as he seems to think there is not a problem. Sometimes he makes me feel like I am the problem when I try and talk to him about it


Posted by: Pin Boy

what's he doing so late on the 'net? internet porn addiction or obsession or whatever you want to call it is a big problem bubbling under the surface

pb


Posted by: inlove

He does not seem to be a very considerate guy. Apparently the problem exists, even if he prefers not to think about it.
I don't think it has anything to do with his culture, only with the personality.
If you have tried to discuss it between you two to no avail, now is the time for the next step - counseling. If he does not want to do it for you, then he does not really love you. It is simple like that to me.


Posted by: MissEm

We've talked about that before. He plays this game all the time. But after I fall asleep who knows what he does?
He doesnt do it as often as he used to. And quite honestly, I dont care if he looks at porn, but if thats whats effecting our sex lives its going to become a problem.
I just dont know how to approach him on this issue since I have many times before and have gotten no where. Its like talking to a brick wall. I've been going through this in my head all day.
He said before once when I talked to him that when I bother him about it he feels pressured which makes him not want it. So Im stuck. I sent him an email yesterday explaining my insecurities regarding our sex life and suggested we watch an "adult" movie. He said "We can try" then went to his brothers for an hour or so and when he came back he read a book, I asked him this morning about it and he said "he forgot"
All sounds like sad excuses to me. How about yoU?


Posted by: Pin Boy

sorry to hear what you're going through...you must ask yourself, do you want to spend the rest of your life with this "brick wall"??

pin boy


Posted by: Texas Proud

Sorry to hear about your problem, but coming here we can tell you are open about discussing it...

But, I noticed that his 'drive' seemed to change when you got married... is this correct? Or, did it change when he went back to his girlfriend?

My thinking is he is cheating on you with his old girlfriend which is what excites him and is giving him his sexual satisfaction.. with you, it seems that all he wants is to 'finish' quickly and say he is done and let you be frustrated... a good lover will work with you to make sure you have pleasure if he was not able to 'stay standing' . Him not taking this necessary step is a bad sign.

I will tell you that one of my female friends divorced her husband because he did not have much of a sex drive.. When she turned 30, (and this is the truth from what she told me... not a wifes tale) that her drive increased a lot.. now she is in her mid 40s and it is more 'normal'.. (I say that knowing that everything is normal if both partners agree)... she has a boyfriend for the past 10 or so years and she is much happier.

I hope things work out.


Posted by: Jill

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I actually disagree with the others about talking to him about it. I know a lot of guys (not just Ukrainian--although this does apply to my Ukrainian husband) who would rather pull their toenails out than talk about sex. Sometimes you just have to act. Take matters into your own hands. Fo example, don't ask him if he wants to rent an "adult" film--just go out and rent one and pop it in the VCR at night. Buy some lingerie, give him a massage, etc. Maybe he will respond better to that. Just an idea.

About using you for immigration--if the only reaon you suspect this is because of the sex issue, then I doubt it. Are there other "red flags"? I agree with inlove that the previous (fake) marriage is a little distrubing.


Posted by: MissEm

Thank you. Your post actually made me feel a little better.
He definitley is extremley hard to talk to.
Last night we were both exhausted. I asked him if he'd like to watch one earlier and he said "he thinks so" but when the time came we were both very tired.
I think I have decided to just let it go. I have tried numerous times to talk to him and I actually think it's making the situation worse. By me asking him over and over I think its making him feel pressured into sex. And that cannot be enjoyful.
He is a high stress person and lets little things bother him. All in all he's a wonderful husband, very caring, very thoughtful, very affectionate. I think I have to just realize that his sexual drive may not be as strong as mine and just accept what I can get from him. I love him very much so I'd do anything for him.


Posted by: Jill

Well, I think you do need to look at the big picture to see what--if anything--is going on. You say he is wonderful in every other way, and you say that he really is tired. So it just doesn't sound that suspicious to me (but maybe I'm naive ).

And about the not liking to talk about problems part--not every guy is a Dr. Phil

But you also shouldn't have to be in a relationship that you don't find satisfying. Maybe you can seduce him out of his stupor--it's worth a shot


Posted by: Jill

BTW, how long has your husband lived in the US? I think Ukrainian men in general have less patience for talking about relationships and relation problems than American men do. At least the ones I've known. And unless he's lived in the US for a long time, the idea of going to counseling for such a thing must have seemed quite absurd to him--people in Ukraine don't go to therapists as is common in the US. On that level, maybe some of this is cultural. But it is the communication aspect that might be cultural--not the sex issue itself. In my opinion, at any rate.


Posted by: MissEm

He's been here 6 years. I am his first serious American relationship. I do think it has alot to do with the culture as far as communication. I've read that russian and ukrainian women do not talk to there husbands about sex not even there friends. So I think maybe this is why he wont communicate with me.

I dont really know what to think about the lack of sex.
We met in January 2004, married in June 2004, the sex was on a regular basis for a few months then started tapering off. I'd say for the last 3 months its been quite bad.
I dont know what to say to him without making him feel like he's failing in the bedroom. I know men are sensitive about sex.......I almost got the courage to simply ask him this morning "Honey, whats going on with our sex life" But I really dont want to continue to bother him.
I'm afraid in a way to initiate anything with him in fear of rejection. as he's rejected me in the past when I've tried.
He stares at other women constantly in public and I always think, "I bet if I were her he'd have sex with me" As you can see this is taking a toll on my self confidence. Im not by any means an ugly girl. Im petite, good looking and was always confident in myself, but not so much anymore.


Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by searcher
Welcome to the forum MissEm,


about his problem....

but first it is quite funny how you don't like AM (American Men), I say funny because actually it is a breath of fresh air, usually its AM complaining about AW LOL!

.


I don't think she meant she doesn't like AM-- just that she finds RM/UM more intriguing. I think that's a fair point, also where AM find RW/UW more intriguing, I think that's fine also-- I just don't like the all AW are just fat, bitter, jealous, selfish, bad wives/mothers posts and that AW are INFERIOR genetically/culturally to RW.

If I were to end up single I'd probably look in part specifically at local RM/UM (of which there is no shortage-- and they're pretty cute a lot of them too ), but that's just because I've got one foot in their culture and it's hard to completely step out of it. I wouldn't not date AM too, though. I don't believe in limiting oneself by nationality.


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
I've read that russian and ukrainian women do not talk to there husbands about sex not even there friends.


Actually, many do talk to their friends about sex. Maybe more than they talk to their husbands about it.

Quote:
As you can see this is taking a toll on my self confidence. Im not by any means an ugly girl. Im petite, good looking and was always confident in myself, but not so much anymore.


I know it's hard, but try not to let it get you down. Whatever the problem is, it's not YOU, it's HIM. Remember that this has nothing to do with how attractive you are or how good a wife you are. It is a little marriage crisis--which happens. But you need to learn and compromise and try to understand each other better in the process. You have been married for less than one year--you are likely still learning about each other. Marriage takes a lot of patience and hard work--even when both people are from the same culture. But most problems--in my opinion--can be solved, if both people are committed to solving them. But you need to be understanding of each other's commuincation styles before effective communication can take place.


Posted by: MissEm

Yes, you are right, its not about me. Its hard to keep believing that but I do try.
He has extremley bad communication skills or he's simply selfish, I think a little of both. Once we had a conversation about this before and he said that sometimes he doesnt have time to make love that he'd rather have a quickie as he prefers them, and he also said Im not satisfied by quickies, which is not true, Its just nice not to have them ALL the time. Whats lacking here is the passion. There is no passion, he always shuts the lights off.
when I first met him I was ecstatic about how amazing sex was. Now its like "WHAT HAPPENED"


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
I've read that russian and ukrainian women do not talk to there husbands about sex not even there friends. So I think maybe this is why he wont communicate with me.


Russian women do talk about sex to their husbands/boyfriends, and of course to their friends. I'm talking mostly about women in my generation, which is late 20s-mid 30s. How easy a person can approach this topic nowdays depends more on one's personality, sexual experience and local social environment, and less on the national culture itself.

Women in my mother's generation would rarely if ever raise the topic of sex. I would assume that very young girls also have some trouble discussing the issue out of inexperience and maybe shyness. Although I'm sure, some of the youngsters know everything already and are not timid to discuss it by the age of 16.

Quote:
He stares at other women constantly in public and I always think, "I bet if I were her he'd have sex with me" As you can see this is taking a toll on my self confidence.


I would consider it to be a sign that he is one of those men who enjoy a chase more than a catch. See if you can make him to chase you again...


Posted by: MissEm

Thats exactly it! I know he enjoys the chae more than the catch......He's an aries......How in the world do I make him chase me? I've run out of ideas.
Being that its Friday and he will be relaxed this weekend I will try, but what to try?
Another thing, we always have sex at night. In the bed, blah, blah, blah. I think maybe I will go into his office on Saturday afternoon and try to seduce him? I know this may sound silly but how? I've tried lingerie before and it seems he's not big on it?


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
I know he enjoys the chae more than the catch......He's an aries


I sympathize...My husband's an aquarius, probably the only thing worse (especially for a capricorn like me). Pain in the most of the time


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
I don't think she meant she doesn't like AM-- just that she finds RM/UM more intriguing. I think that's a fair point, also where AM find RW/UW more intriguing, I think that's fine also-- I just don't like the all AW are just fat, bitter, jealous, selfish, bad wives/mothers posts and that AW are INFERIOR genetically/culturally to RW.


Grass is greener on the other side.

Quote:
If I were to end up single I'd probably look in part specifically at local RM/UM (of which there is no shortage-- and they're pretty cute a lot of them too ), but that's just because I've got one foot in their culture and it's hard to completely step out of it. I wouldn't not date AM too, though. I don't believe in limiting oneself by nationality.


I hope I will never have to look for a date again. But if I do, I would not specifically look for any nationality.. Ok, maybe a latino. At the end, I would probably end up with another white american professional liberal guy again, I seem to get along well with them. Russians represent too much of home culture for me. I've had my share of strong russian hockey players already.


Posted by: MissEm

Are you russian or is he?
Yes mine can be a pain too. Like last night I went and took a shower, all excited about our movie, he started messing with the garbage disposal, which made him crabby, which made him tired, which made him not want to have sex.....Why Did he have to mess with the garbage disposal at 10pm?

Im thinking maybe sending him a naughty email, what do you think?


Posted by: inlove

I'm russian. He is a white american midwestern professional liberal midleage guy. And he is not a pain at all, more like a constant delight. But we are not married yet.. although I don't think he will turn into an ogre after the wedding, somehow it is not his style..


Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove
Grass is greener on the other side.



I hope I will never have to look for a date again. But if I do, I would not specifically look for any nationality.. Ok, maybe a latino. At the end, I would probably end up with another white american professional liberal guy again, I seem to get along well with them. Russians represent too much of home culture for me. I've had my share of strong russian hockey players already.


Well, the thing is, you just never know who's going to do it for you, if you have any open mind... the only guys I'm really wary of are ones who grew up very upper middle class or just plain rich. I just don't think I could ever really have common mental ground with them. I think my Russian husband and I are a lot closer mentally than I am to some of the guys I went to college with because we both came from lower middle class families within our own societies. But, I say wary...I wouldn't refuse to date them just because of that.


Posted by: inlove

Instead of pursuing him, I would make him to pursue you.. Put on a sexy outfit and go out with your girlfriends, no husbands allowed. Have fun, flirt with boys, and come back home all happy and misterious.. See what happens..


Posted by: MissEm

inlove,

finally a russian woman to talk to......I know alot of them but they are mutual friends of my husband and I so not a good idea to talk sexual problems.
Please, tell me about russian men. Or let me explain mine to you and tell me if this is a typical russian man...

Very high strung. little patience, low tolerance for mistakes. picky about everything. but sweet, kind and treats me as if I were a queen (besides sex)
Very flirtatious with other women.


Posted by: inlove

MissEm,

Same as with american men, you cannot find two russian men who are completely alike. The russian/ukranian society is much more macho than american (that's, probably, why we have a good rapport with latinos ), but each individual personality depends more on the inhereted character and immideate family surroundings than on the overall culture, IMHO..

Your husband seems to have a choleric personality that demands a lot of stimulation.. He might to get bored easily, might be a perfectionist lith low patience ( garbage disposal fixing at 10 PM, could not it wait until the morning?).. Those are personal traits you can see in many americans as well, they are not culture related..


Posted by: inlove

OK, I though a bit about this, and there is one thing that is common among many russian men. It is a sense of entitlement. Do you see it in your husband?


Posted by: MissEm

I do see this in him, among other traits.
I do worry about his boredom. I worry that he'll go elsewhere to become not bored.
I've heard that russian/ukrainian men often have many lovers and it is normal and accepted by there wives?!
I do think he is bored but doesnt want to tell me. I dont know what to do, Should I just straight out ask him, are you bored sexually?


Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove
OK, I though a bit about this, and there is one thing that is common among many russian men. It is a sense of entitlement. Do you see it in your husband?


I don't know. I've come across plenty of American men and women with a sense of entitlement, it's just manifested a bit differently.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by MissEm
I do see this in him, among other traits.
I do worry about his boredom. I worry that he'll go elsewhere to become not bored.
I've heard that russian/ukrainian men often have many lovers and it is normal and accepted by there wives?!
I do think he is bored but doesnt want to tell me. I dont know what to do, Should I just straight out ask him, are you bored sexually?


Many men get bored with married life, unfortunatelly, although it usually happens after a t least few years of marriage, not less than one.. I don't know if you, guys, had a discussion what both of you are looking for in a marriage, but maybe it is time to bring this topic up. He might be the one who needs a constant thrill, and you might find it tiring to provide this kind of novelty excitement all the time.. You can ask him, but he, probably, will say that he is not bored, it is all in your head.. Try to distance yourself from him, spend some time with your friends, be a "sexy stranger", and see how he reacts. You might find your answer this way...

I would say, in general having affairs outside of marriage is more accepted in FSU, as well as generally in Europe, than it is in the US. I don't know about "many lovers", but it is rare when a woman would seek a divorce just on the grounds of him being occasionally unfaithful to her. It goes both ways, pretty much.. It also depends on what kind of affair we are talking about, I guess.. I have never been cheated on, although I might have been, but never found out about it. I don't think I would have immediately divorced my husband because he had a fling with somebody, but I definitely would not have been OK with it.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
I don't know. I've come across plenty of American men and women with a sense of entitlement, it's just manifested a bit differently.


I can accross them as well.. I'm not saying that majority of russian men have it, but many do.. Their sense of entitlement manifests itself in family situations. For example, once married, he does not feel it necessary to keep romanticaly seducing his wife anymore. Or he sees majority if not all housework as the wife's responsibility. She is his wife, so "where would she go from a submarine"?


Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove
I can accross them as well.. I'm not saying that majority of russian men have it, but many do.. Their sense of entitlement manifests itself in family situations. For example, once married, he does not feel it necessary to keep romanticaly seducing his wife anymore. Or he sees majority if not all housework as the wife's responsibility. She is his wife, so "where would she go from a submarine"?


Well, I participate on a list dealing with birth issues and we have a connected off topic list where this has come up very recently-- and believe me, the sense of entitlement is very much the same.

Actually, I don't believe my husband has to keep romantically seducing me and I'm not sure why I or any other woman should feel entitled to that. As for housework, my husband has been nothing but golden in that area, especially in comparison to what I've heard from other women (both RW and AW) about their AM husbands. The only thing is he won't clean the bathroom-- but I'm okay with taking care of that myself, since he does absolutely everything else around the house with no problem.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
I don't think she meant she doesn't like AM-- just that she finds RM/UM more intriguing. I think that's a fair point, also where AM find RW/UW more intriguing, I think that's fine also-- I just don't like the all AW are just fat, bitter, jealous, selfish, bad wives/mothers posts and that AW are INFERIOR genetically/culturally to RW.

If I were to end up single I'd probably look in part specifically at local RM/UM (of which there is no shortage-- and they're pretty cute a lot of them too ), but that's just because I've got one foot in their culture and it's hard to completely step out of it. I wouldn't not date AM too, though. I don't believe in limiting oneself by nationality.


Oh, I agree with you completely...
I wouldn't limit myself either and yes once you get involved in the culture it is quite interesting!!!

I would do that same if I were single too

but I just saw a bit of humor in this situation (and I do hope she finds a reasonable solution) because usually you always hera the opposite complain.

I understand she is not really bashing AM but I just found it amusing


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
Well, I participate on a list dealing with birth issues and we have a connected off topic list where this has come up very recently-- and believe me, the sense of entitlement is very much the same.

Actually, I don't believe my husband has to keep romantically seducing me and I'm not sure why I or any other woman should feel entitled to that. As for housework, my husband has been nothing but golden in that area, especially in comparison to what I've heard from other women (both RW and AW) about their AM husbands. The only thing is he won't clean the bathroom-- but I'm okay with taking care of that myself, since he does absolutely everything else around the house with no problem.


I don't know, I found AM more flexible in household chores department.. Again, I'm not much interested in dating any more machos, either russian or american, but when I was exclusively dating russians, I came accross the entitlement attitude much more often than when I started dating americans.

You have a great husband, Vesna, what can I say..


Posted by: Vyesna

I think with Americans, both men and women, the entitlement sense is just more hidden, and wouldn't come out until after marriage for the most part. My husband is great (most of the time ; )), but I also made it clear to him when we moved in together that I couldn't and wouldn't do it all, and we've never had a problem because that was the deal from the beginning. But then again, I don't needle him to make more money, support me fully, "court" me, or whatever. I wanted a partner, not a knight on a white horse and I would never expect any man to treat me like a princess or a queen-- whatever that means-- just like an equal human being. I suspect if he hasn't manifested a sense of entitlement too much it's because I haven't either. He also lived on his own for a while and did not go straight from mama's kitchen to mine-- which I think made a big difference between him and a lot of other RM.


Posted by: inlove

See.. I like to be courted. I like to find flowers next to my bed in the morning, even after many years of marriage.. I'm an undying romantic in heart.


Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove
See.. I like to be courted. I like to find flowers next to my bed in the morning, even after many years of marriage.. I'm an undying romantic in heart.


Then you better find someone who actually enjoys doing that. I think it's really unfair when women impose expectations on men to do that when they're really not into it.


Posted by: inlove

Yeah, I already found one.

I agree with you. The expectations have to be expressed from the beginning. Which brings me back to MissEm's case..What did he expect from this marriage? What did you expect from it? Have you discussed it before getting married?


Posted by: MissEm

Good point, we never did discuss it, I guess I assumed he wanted the same as everyone does, happiness. We never went into detail. We did both agree we wanted an honest, happy marriage.
I did send him an email. Just explaining that I feel hurt and stupid for expressing myself and not getting any type of response, I also said in it that I can tell something is different about our sex life and I need some communication with him in order to fix it, I also told him I love him and Im tired of having to deal with this same issue all the time.

As far as AM and RM, I prefer RM. I find them more attractive, intriguing and more gentleman like. I dont dislike AM, I have a child with an AM.


Posted by: MissEm

So we'll see what happens when I get home tonight
Im nervous.


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
I can accross them as well.. I'm not saying that majority of russian men have it, but many do.. Their sense of entitlement manifests itself in family situations. For example, once married, he does not feel it necessary to keep romanticaly seducing his wife anymore. Or he sees majority if not all housework as the wife's responsibility


Yes, I don't necessarly agree with this, either. It depends on the man, and I think to a large degree, it depends on the wife. I think the degree to which some RM feel this sense of entitlement is the result of the way many RW treat them. They (RW) expect (and tolerate) this behavior and so they receive this behavior.

Quote:
Very high strung. little patience, low tolerance for mistakes. picky about everything. but sweet, kind and treats me as if I were a queen (besides sex)
Very flirtatious with other women.


Kind of describes my husband (except not to this extreme, and not the sex thing, and he doesn't flirt with other women--at least not when I'm around ). But he is pretty high strung and can be impatient, intolerate, sort of moody, and downright stubborn. I don't think it's because he's Ukrainian--that's just his personality. It could be because he's Ukrainian, it could be because he's an aquarius, it could be because he's left handed (and right brained). Likely, though, it's a combination of many factors. I don't really think these are national traits per se.


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally posted by MissEm
Good point, we never did discuss it, I guess I assumed he wanted the same as everyone does, happiness.


Not to nit-pick or seem unfriendly but....

everyone DOES want happiness!!!!!

The problem is that people have different concepts/ideas about what happiness is.

I don't think it is impossible to find your happiness with your husband as you two seem to love each other.

I think what you two may need to do is communicate with each other. Talk about the things you perhaps should have talked about before getting married. I would believe that a reasonable compromise could be found.

I know it is difficult to talk about these things. I have had many long drawn-out conversations with my fiance some of which have led to some misunderstandingd but we resolved those issues. We still continue to discuss some small matters but the more I talk to her and spend time with her, the more I am convinced she is the "right one".

People are individuals, of course, but dispite differences a middle ground can be found. It all depends upon how will we are to work with out significant other, how open we are to compromises and how much we want to make our partner/spouse happy.


Posted by: MissEm

I talked to him this weekend after the lengthy email I sent him.
I asked him if he got my email and he said yes. We talked and he said he is just a stressful person and I gotta try to support him. So Saturday night AND Sunday afternoon we were "Communicating" quite well I might add.

THanks to all of your advice, it helped and I hope our relationship stays this way!


Posted by: Pin Boy

YOWZA! YOWZA! YOWZA!!!!

Good for you! Hope this leads to a much better long term relationship.

pin boy


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
Then you better find someone who actually enjoys doing that.


That's me!!!


Posted by: Pin Boy

And me too!!


Posted by: Anubis

First of all, if your man is checking out other women, there is something lacking that he desires in a woman. Most men have a favorite part of a womans body that really gets him excided.....for example, like a tight butt, big chest, nice legs, pretty eyes or smile. It could be any one of these things that turns a man on. I know most of the woman here will probably flame me for saying this, but, I know from a mans point of view that there needs to be a physical attraction, to keep a mans interest. I know love and commitment is suppose to be the heart of the marriage, but lets face it, without the physical attraction = No Sex Drive! Talk to your man, ask him what part of a womans body turns him on. What ever it is, go to the gym and try to improve that part of your body. This also goes for men as well. Stay fit for your partner, keep there interest in you, not someone walking down the street. I know this sounds shallow, but believe me, if a man is checking out other woman, its because something is missing in his woman.

Just my two cents worth!


Posted by: MissEm

I agree with you, I already know his favorite part, the chest. And unfortunatley god did not bless me with very much in that department. Only thing Im having trouble with here is, If my husband is so attracted to women with larger chests why would he have married me in the first place?
Secondly, I cannot afford to shell out five thousand dollars just to make my husband stop looking at other women.........He's going to do that no matter what I do to myself. Its just him...........But I do understand that there has to be an attraction, its for men and women.
I do definitley take care of myself, When I go out without my husband I am propositioned all the time. so I doubt the attraction that he feels twoards me is bad,


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
DEAR ABBY: My husband and I are well-educated professionals. This is the second marriage for both of us. We love each other and feel blessed to have found each other.
Our sex life was wonderful for the first two years of our marriage. But we've been married for four years now, and for the last two I have had to beg him for affection. I'm lucky if it happens every other month now, and when it does it's like he's thinking, "OK, let's get this chore over with," and he merely accommodates me. I have told him how ugly, unloved and insecure this makes me feel, but nothing changes.

I always thought it was a sin to cheat on your spouse, but, Abby, I'm beginning to understand why someone would "wander." Talk doesn't help, and he refuses to see a counselor. What do I do now? -- FRUSTRATED SPOUSE

DEAR FRUSTRATED: Talking may not resolve your problem. Your husband owes you an explanation about why your sex life changed so radically two years ago. And you owe it to him -- and yourself -- to hear him out. Some sessions for you, alone, with a professional counselor might help you to gain some insight.

You love each other and consider yourselves blessed to have found each other. Taking a lover will only drive you apart, and I don't recommend it.



Posted by: luckylass

heloo everyone been readin the posts again and after my initial honey moon period with my lovely russian man he is backing of slightly where sex comes in and I dont understand why cos its soooooo good. we get on very well with our communications and he cooks and looks after me in the usual corteous ways. he will kiss cuddle and smooch but am a little worried about the rest. I do not believe he is playing a game or seeing someone else so can anyone help me please here with any ideas??? he does not need me for a passport and everything is well otherwise help please................


Posted by: joelunchbox

Wweelllll he just might be tired.....
On the looking part of this post...I tend to peek. But I never strayed. I always wanted to see what might look good on my wife.
Before I met my ex, I thought I wanted a tall red-headed green-eyed girl. Instead I had a fairytale marriage to a brown haired blue eyed borderline midget.... I never looked back, never regretted it. And, now, I am much more open minded about who I might like. I don't think we can tell what really is attractive to us.


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks Joel maybe you are right time will tell he was over at mine again tonight bringing russian beer and food stuff i like. lots of cuddles and kisses still none of the other ................. loli will wait it out and see as everything else seems fine... and i agree that what we allways feel we may want and require in a person does not usually turn out that way I am soooo glad you found your happines with somebody.....


Posted by: GREGK

Could he be worried about an unplanned pregnancy? This is often a show stopper for guys unless they are thoroughly convinced it is not an issue. Just a thought!


Posted by: luckylass

gregk

Thanks for your posting. Never thought about that so thanks. it is a no goer for me anyway but he would not know that so I may explain in conversation how it is next time when the time is right. I will let you know and thanks for that.

Julie


Posted by: BradIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGK
Could he be worried about an unplanned pregnancy? This is often a show stopper for guys unless they are thoroughly convinced it is not an issue. Just a thought!

The only thing GREG didn't add was asteriks (***) and an explanation point (!). luckylass... if you are strictly on a rhythm method... and the guy senses its the red-letter days... it is absolutely a SHOW STOPPER! Especially if the guy wants no part of it. Been through this more times than I can count.

After reading this thread... there is an experience we are missing here. I wonder if other gents on the board have been through this. She wants, I don't. I spend lots of time on her, she's very pleased, but when she realizes I am not "standing" (as coined by Pin Boy--- good one), and don't want intercourse... LOOK OUT!!!! Some women get pi ed in record time! A mixture of petty insults, indignation, mournful pleas to friends for help, bouts of pouting.

Obviously MissEm's experience was reaching a chronic stage, but if it happens a couple of times a month... well... its amazing. It amazes me how some girls expect it to rise with a change in the wind. I am surprised by the number of women I encounter, who are very sexy and attractive, who are also woefully uneducated, or under-educated, about male sexual health, and have overblown egos that ascribe male sexual desire as some sort of comment on them and their desirability.

A funny e-mail circulated around of one of the places I work at a few years ago. It described the diary entries of a woman and a man after the man comes off quiet and sullen one day. The woman's entry runs 4 pages--- questions all aspects of the relationship, wonders if their marriage is worth the effort, but ends with sex as a way to keep the couple together.

The guy writes only a few sentences. Lousy day at work, boss impossible to deal with. Came home, very tired. Went out to eat, meal was so-so. Got laid, though.


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks for your imput Bradil,

AS I stated above I have no problems with any method rythm or otherwise it is a no go situation for me I cant have children but I suppose he does not know this so will be explaining this at my next available suitable oppertunity. It is simply not somthing you say when you first meet as it is personal.As for children he has one child already from a previous relationship and he left evetrything to his ex wife so I understand why he is very catuios about things. I think he is learning that with me I love the little presis, food and cuddles but I dont expect him to give to me all the time I also give back and for some reason he finds that strange???????

Also I can understand from a male point of view that you do not allways want to make love and it is useful that you have pointed it out here as we females find that concept hard to understand because we are being hit on constantley by men looking for sex or trying very hard so i suppose in our minds it is something that appears to be constant and available. I would personally not pout and complain if sex was denied but may have a slight worry as to what is wrong?

I will try and be more understanding but will allways have that slight worry about what may be wrong even when there is nothing. Also it must be the same for you guys occasionally when a woman may suddenly does not aspire to being fully available so i will check in and let you lknow how it goes.

Thanlks for the view Julie


Posted by: BradIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
we females find that concept hard to understand because we are being hit on constantley by men looking for sex or trying very hard so i suppose in our minds it is something that appears to be constant and available. I would personally not pout and complain if sex was denied but may have a slight worry as to what is wrong?

luckylass... I am guessing you are under the age of 35? The parade of men does not last forever! Because men constantly surround you and your friends does not mean your lover is an endless forge of insatiable desire. Stop worrying! Stress, and many other factors, affect the male sex drive in the same way it affects the female sex drive. Its good you'll try to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
Also it must be the same for you guys occasionally when a woman may suddenly does not aspire to being fully available so i will check in and let you lknow how it goes.

Not really--- especially when there is the general irritation that we actually breath from the same atmosphere, and share the same planet, with our lovely... its a situation we are WELL ACQUAINTED with. Julie... you haven't mentioned time frames with the words "suddenly"... or "initial honeymoon". You might want to read about the natural, or herbal, therapies available to boost male libido. And its amazing what a regular dose of vitamin supplements at mealtime can do for a man!


Posted by: GREGK

Not to mention a bottle of good wine ( or two ).


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks everybody for your responses it is most helpful and Bradil I will try to stop worrying however it would be allways be useful if your own bloke clould be as honest as you have been here with there feelings or concerns then I would not have been worried i the first place. Also stating that you dont worry re your women not wanting sex occasionally made me smile as again we have this notion to refuse is like damaging male pride and egos lol...... As for the wine Greck I will try that one but rather suspect it will end up as russian or german beer....... He works very hard and is very money oriented whilst I used to be but cannot maintain a salary I aspired to in the UK here. I have learned to do with less but have more fun and am much more laid back about things like status and controls now which is good but I allways get the impression that he feels lik he has never enough and works all hours even when it not good for him.


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGK
Not to mention a bottle of good wine ( or two ).


By the way, Luckylass, I - as a Russian man - personally recommend you to try Muscat of Massandra, the best wine in the world! (ask your wonderful Russian friend, he should know where to get it!)

http://public.fotki.com/PrincetonLi...dra_muscat.html

http://public.fotki.com/PrincetonLi...ite_muscat.html

http://public.fotki.com/PrincetonLi...a_belaja_1.html


Posted by: luckylass

Princeton Lion,

Thanks for the wine tip will try and find it here in Cyprus. I am not a wine buff by any stroke of the imagination but love a good red wine. The only range I have been able to find here is a georgian Tamada range which is very nice too. Have visited your website and signed your guest book and am most impressed with the site you are obviously an expert lol...... Thanks for the info. This site is a wonderful way to chat and gain much needed information on all peoples and subjects Russian.....

Warmest Julie


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
Thanks for the wine tip will try and find it here in Cyprus.


Oh, I forgot that you live at the island of Cyprus! That is the second wine-making place in the world after Massandra, and the local wines can successfully compete with Massandra's ones! Try the Muscat of Limassol - I believe it is easy to get it there!
Unfortunately, I do not have the picture of it, but here is another Greek one, my favorite, - the Muscat from the island of Samos:

http://public.fotki.com/PrincetonLi...scat_samos.html


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincetonLion
Oh, I forgot that you live at the island of Cyprus! That is the second wine-making place in the world after Massandra, and the local wines can successfully compete with Massandra's ones! Try the Muscat of Limassol - I believe it is easy to get it there!
Unfortunately, I do not have the picture of it, but here is another Greek one, my favorite, - the Muscat from the island of Samos:

http://public.fotki.com/PrincetonLi...scat_samos.html


Well I don't really drink except on rare occasions but Muscat (pronounced: Muscay for those that don't know) is my favorite wine too.....

The last bottle I had was produced by a winery in Oceanside, California.

My brother also makes wine so we bought the items to make some Muscat... I have yet to get it started...

Also, I was told that California is considered the best area in the world for wine because of the weather here, we have exceptionally long growing seasons for grapes. The French consider California wines to be the best.


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks for all the wine tips I will definatley be looking for both the russian wine here and the cyprus variety. Has anyone heard of the Tamada range of wine? My Russian friends here say that the Tamada range here from georgia is a sham because the region that produces that range is very native to that particular area of Georgia and produces very little bottles that goes directly to the goverment rather than the people and that if you did buy a bottle of genuine tamada range then it would costs a mint. Anyone know about this? Also princeton Lion can you tell me how I cn upload my photo like you and others have done on your posts?

Warmest... Julie


Posted by: Chrismc

I have just recently had a lot of Crimean Champagne, it was very nice, much nicer than you imagine and quite cheap compared to others. Also I found the Georgian wine to be very good.


Posted by: luckylass

chrismc

thanks for info on champagne not sure if i can get here in cyprus and could you tell me which version of georgian wine you know about ?

warmest Julie


Posted by: searcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
Thanks for all the wine tips I will definatley be looking for both the russian wine here and the cyprus variety. Has anyone heard of the Tamada range of wine? My Russian friends here say that the Tamada range here from georgia is a sham because the region that produces that range is very native to that particular area of Georgia and produces very little bottles that goes directly to the goverment rather than the people and that if you did buy a bottle of genuine tamada range then it would costs a mint. Anyone know about this? Also princeton Lion can you tell me how I cn upload my photo like you and others have done on your posts?

Warmest... Julie

Hi Julie,

Go to the top of the page where it says "User CP", click on the link.

Now you will see a CONTROL PANEL on the left.

Go down to where it says "Edit Avatar", click on it and it will allow you to upload your photo (avatar).

I believe there are some size (Kb) and dimension limits ( Width and Height) so you may have to reduce the size of the photo you wish to use as your avatar.


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
chrismc

thanks for info on champagne not sure if i can get here in cyprus and could you tell me which version of georgian wine you know about ?

warmest Julie


Hi Julie

I am not sure as the labels were all in Russian, but I think one was callled something like Tamada which was a white wine I seem to remember. There was another which I think they translated to mean Old Tbilisi and there was a nice Red wine which sounded like Saperavi although these may not be complete translations.

I have been told you can now get Georgian wines in the UK no problem, so maybe I will try some and see if they are the same.

Chris


Posted by: luckylass

Hi searcher thank you for the info but when I go into edit avatar I cannot see an upload as described it simply says no avatar, sorry to be a pain but cannot find ??????????????

Chrismc will try to look for the wines you describe in Cyprus and let you know if we have such a name here.......By the time I have sampled all these makes then I may be even more of an alcaholic lol...............

Regards Julie


Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Yeah, I've been wondering about that Avatar thing also. Editing it does not give me an option to add one...


Keith in Kodiak


Posted by: searcher

I had another member contact m about the problems with the avatars.

I'll mention it to khashyar when he returns from Belarus. I think there may be a software problems that is preventing users from adding their avatars.

He recently upgraded the forum software so that may be an issue.


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks Seacher and kodiak re info on avatar uploading, we will of course wait
unti khashyar returns from his trip and a wonderful time I hope he is having too........................


Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

Thanks, Searcher!

To any woman having problems with a mans diminished sex drive... Well, as a man, ahem, a philosopher, and an observer of human nature; I would say that (in my opinion!!!), the majority of such cases would be due to depression.
And I'm not necessarily talking about clinical depression where he needs therapy or drugs or what-have-you. I'm talking about the every day getting stuck in the ruts-of-life type depression. I'm talking about problems at work; things that a man usually won't ever discuss with his wife. And that's OK, because a man needs to keep his aura of omnipotent protector and master predator who always drags home a mastodon in time for the BBQ. He doesn't want to tell you about his failures - not getting the promotion, pissing off the boss - whatever. Work failures are ego blows to men, and ego blows diminish libido.
It's not about your relationship, it's not about you, it's not about another woman. Well, it could be one of these things, but most of the time it isn't.

The cause is (usually) ego deflation. And now that you ladies know the cause of the problem, I have to tell you that you are absolutely wrong about what to do about it!
You don't need to get him to "talk about it" or "share" it with you.
If you do that you are further chipping away at his fragile male ego. It's that Mars-Venus thing. Leave his personal (work/male/Tarzan) space alone.

Just build his ego. Suggest to a girlfriend that he is a fantastic lover (the best you ever had!), in a place where he can overhear you say it. Or, just tell him the next time he performs well. Find ways to compliment or thank him making all that money (even if it isn't all that much money)... Make him feel like Tarzan.
Men are pretty simple machines - machines powered by ego. If a man feels appreciated and admired, he'll run smoothly and at high rpm. He'll "start" right up every time you turn the key...

I have to suggest one more thing... If the above is the most common cause of lack of libido, then this is the following - familiarity! By this I mean that point where a particular woman begins to lose her "mystery'. I've actually gone through this one... I've "been around" a bit, OK?
In my experience... there are a lot of women who just let all the romance slip away when they get comfortable with a man. The Victoria's Secret goes away and a frayed cotton granny panty takes its place... and there's two pair of them lying on the bedroom floor... The make-up, the perfume, the hip-hugger Jeans all disappear. It's hard for a man (remember, we're very simple machines!), to feel the same libido-kick when you take away all the bright shiney objects that helped interest us in the first place. We need to think you're mysterious and special... So be mysterious and special.

Keith in Kodiak


Posted by: luckylass

Lol thanks for all that input Keith,

First point taken re work ect, I used to be very career minded, work all the time ect now I just want a more chilled out life doing what i want when I can thats why I moved here to Cyprus and so far am a teenager again.....lol

I do stroke the ego pardon the pun as I am well aware that what bothers men is not the same for women usually. I dont mind that he does not want to share his so called problems from work/other but what we women hate is failure to say anything and then sit and simmer...... or dare I say MOODY....this is a real turn off for us so I go off and do what i want to do and then when it is resolved carry on as normal.

Ahhh and that good old familiarity thing..... well it happens to us all including us women re you men. You maybe have no idea what it is like and how time consuming it is for us to just keep going with all that sparkles when sometimes we just want to wear granny knickers and spark out infront of the TV with drink. Also on this point it has to be said from my own experiences a man just simply does not or need to spend so much time looking like a sexy superstar to impress us girls. while we girls whilst enjoy good looks and grooming attitude, consideration and understanding of the occasions when we canot sparkle so much would be gratefully appreciated by us all as any relationship is not allways based on sex at least i hope so as I have good humour and wit lol............. I say this with the idea in mind that I personally set aside time to sparkle and show my man just how much he means to me in the bedroom department as I do not believe any good relationship can survive without these actions and occasions. Speaking as a woman I need my man to be just that without erroding my sense of self confidence and freedom and if I recieve my needs then he will certainly get his lol........10 times over! So it is a 2 way street. To be remembered by a phone call or a suggestion to do something that makes us happy like dare I say a night out DANCING even better. So i think we women are simple in our wants too we just appreciate diffrent things thats all. Maybe a little consideration from you guys would be appreciated at stressfull times when we either canot or are unable to devote so much time to sparkling for them needs to be considered too by you guys.

I look forward to hearing how you consider your partners wants and needs lol... now that tooo would be a very interesting post!

Cme on girls comments please, I origioanly asked on this post if what I was experiencing was a little of something of a culture thing as it is my first relationship with a russian guy. My situation is resloved due mainly to what Keith suggested the work thing but the posts regarding the other pointers from others male and female would make intersesting reading and thought

Regards Julie


Posted by: BradIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
I dont mind that he does not want to share his so called problems from work/other but what we women hate is failure to say anything and then sit and simmer...... or dare I say MOODY....this is a real turn off for us so I go off and do what i want to do and then when it is resolved carry on as normal.

Julie... your man has a luckylass, indeed... if you follow this philosphy. My bad moods/bad days are usually far in-between... but when I have them... MOODY is a very polite description. And Mr. Moody is postin' at-cha RIGHT NOW! Its not that I don't want to share bad days with my lady... its just that I NEED TO FEEL LOUSY ABOUT THEM... and then I am OK. It is MERCIFUL when my lady ignores me... goes about her business... and then asks "Had enough of feeling lousy, Brad?" Then everything is OK. Remember this... let our type of man feel horrible for a little bit... and then we can share ALL YOU WANT! You see, the more efficently I can get-through the "pissed off" stage ... THE BETTER!


Posted by: luckylass

Thank you Bradil I do try my best but had still not thought of wanting to be MOODY lol............i will try my best to remember this alongside wanting to feel other good stuff like havin your teeth pulled out LOL.....


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Just a little update about Massandra wines:

http://www.worldcollectorsnet.com/n...es/news512.html

I only dare to correct one thing: Livadia is not the palace name, it is just the name of the village where the King's palace stands... By the way, it is known to westerners generally because of the famous conference of Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin that took place there in 1945... Some of modern Massandra wines even bear the picture of these three guys (see my previous links )


Posted by: luckylass

Thank you princetonlion for that information and update I have been trying to speak with my boyfriend regards the diffrent wines and how to try and get them to try but do not want him asking how i heard about them as he does not know about this site. As this site is a wonderful resource I would not want to reveal the source as i find everyone on here and thier help invaluable so still working out where to say I found the information from. I may explain it was one of our other friends but then he may ask them in passing......

Can i also ask for information on the following statement by several of my male Russian friends. " Russian men do not allways mary for love in our country we marry for family and not to be alone" "Then we go out and see other women to make us feel better" mmmmm I had a long discussion about this as being Enlish we try to choose our partners for love and if we get hurt well it is better to have loved and lost than not at all.

This discussion with my friends will be on going about this as I am not saying I agree or not maybe again this is more of a cultural attitude???

Look forward to hearing your comments

Julie


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
"Russian men do not allways mary for love in our country we marry for family and not to be alone"
"Then we go out and see other women to make us feel better"


Dear Julie,
Though I am a Russian man myself, I strongly disagree...
In my opinion, such thoughts are just an excuse for an adultery!


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks princetonlion for those sentiments, I agree with you wholeheartedly but have heard this so many times from some of the men that I thought it just must be a cultural attitude that’s why I asked for opinions. The men also tell me that all they ever here from their woman is money money money....and more money please so again not sure if that is something they are just saying to make is sound acceptable either........




Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
The men also tell me that all they ever here from their woman is money money money....and more money please


Here I rather agree!


Posted by: luckylass

haha Pincetonlion

I have this money conversation with my Russian lady friends here and they tell me its normal as they have so little where they come from that they develop this attitude. When I explain maybe they should relax a little now they are here in another country with maybe a little more they are horrified by my attitude and tell me you can never know when financial disaster strikes what to do? I have to say I see the men always striving and striving for more and more although I don’t know if this is just there own thing or whether it is the women’s expectation of bringing more and more bacon home lol........

I have to add here as well that here in Cyprus a lot of the Russian men and women are treated like sh.... despite being highly educated for the most part. None of my English or Cypriot friends can understand why or how I am as friends as don’t I know it is dangerous to associate with these people! I explain it is this kind of attitude to all nations that gets everyone into trouble. My Russian friends think I must have had a past life or something in Russia because despite being English came to Cyprus worked with my fist Russian friend and bingo that was it....... mmm maybe I will have to do regression lol.......

Anyway more thoughts about this money thing as I find it a little strange but could understand it if it is because there was none before and now the fear is not a consistent supply????




Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismc
I have just recently had a lot of Crimean Champagne, it was very nice, much nicer than you imagine and quite cheap compared to others. Also I found the Georgian wine to be very good.



Just to be a stick in the mud.... and to pass along some knowledge... there can be no such thing as "Crimean Champangne" (or at least the French will do whatever they can about it) as to be called Champangne it is supposed to be from France...

You can have sparkling wine from other locations (read champagne), but not called Champagne..


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks texas proud for that so you are saying that the french claim it is all theres wherever in the world it is.Well I suppose would we expect anything less than the french lol...................surley it is not a true official status? is it?


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Just to be a stick in the mud.... and to pass along some knowledge... there can be no such thing as "Crimean Champangne" (or at least the French will do whatever they can about it) as to be called Champangne it is supposed to be from France...

You can have sparkling wine from other locations (read champagne), but not called Champagne..


Yes you are quite correct, officially Champagne can only be called "Champagne" if it is grown and bottled in the Champagne region of France. It is as you correctly state, everywhere else "Sparkling Wine"

Now just to add something, recently a British "Sparkling Wine" (Champagne) has been voted the best in the world, it is produced from grapes grown in the South of England. The French Champagne producers are now visiting this area in England to see what the English wine producers are doing differently.

Chris


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
Thanks texas proud for that so you are saying that the french claim it is all theres wherever in the world it is.Well I suppose would we expect anything less than the french lol...................surley it is not a true official status? is it?


As I state above, "Champagne" can only be called that if produced from grapes and bottled in that area of France. So all other so caled Champagnes from other countries are in fact legally Sparklng Wine.

Chris


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks for that Chris............ wow English champagne being heralded as one of the best, you definatley learn somthing new every day..............wait while i next speak with that french guy I know............. mmmmmmmmm





Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
Thanks for that Chris............ wow English champagne being heralded as one of the best, you definatley learn somthing new every day..............wait while i next speak with that french guy I know............. mmmmmmmmm


Yes you can now tell him about that, although he might not agree or want to acknowledge it.


Posted by: Chrismc

Luckylass some more info for you:

There are currently about 400 commercially operating vineyards in England and Wales, and of these approximately 10% produce some sparkling wine. A few of the vineyards were planted solely for this purpose, eschewing still wine altogether

Three wines which might best represent the potential of English sparkling wine. These wines were from Nyetimber, Ridgeview and Carr-Taylor.

Nyetimber
This estate was planted up in the 1980's, solely for the production of sparkling wine. The plantings consist of 70% Chardonnay, with 30% Pinot Noir and Pinot Meunier. It is situated on chalky bedrock, and the soil type is greensand. Both chalk and greensand are to be found beneath the vineyards of Champagne. The vinification involves cultured French yeasts, and at least three years bottle maturation before release.

Ridgeview Estate
Another estate planted solely for the production of sparkling wine, producing a Pinot Noir/Chardonnay blend. Although the grape varieties are right, the terroir is not wholely adequate. The vineyard is sited on a ridge of limestone overlying sandstone bedrock, with heavy, silty clay soils. Some attempt has been made to counteract this with the insertion of field drains. This wine carries the term 'Cuvée Merret', after the Englishman Christopher Merret, who is said by some to have been the first to describe the second fermentation of still wine, after the addition of sugar, to produce a sparkling wine. The Bloomsbury 1996 is their inaugural vintage.

Carr-Taylor
Probably the best known of English winemakers, David Carr-Taylor produces a number of sparkling wines under his own name. His Vintage Reserve is his top cuvée, and it claims a vintage age of four years. It is a blend of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Bacchus plus, a small quantity of other New World wines to give that rich dessert fruit flavour. It is uncertain if this wine was ever intended to be in the Champagne style, however, it received a Gold Medal in Challenge International du Vin 1999,


Posted by: Chrismc

Luckylass

FYI

English Vineyard and winemakers are producing some of the world's finest wines.

English Sparkling Wines have beaten top champagnes in international blind tastings and yet are a fraction of the cost.

See here: http://www.english-wine-week.co.uk/...kling-wines.htm

BTW the French are now buying wine producing land in the South of England. The Sussex and Kent areas which are just 80 miles from the Champagne region are of particular interest. If so, they won’t be able to call the fruits of their labors “champagne” but with the growing reputation for English sparkling wines that shouldn’t be a problem.

Chris




Posted by: Keith In Kodiak

I don't pretend to be an expert, but white wines (including Champagne) are the "Bud Lights" of the wine world. A nice fruity Chardonay is a fine choice for a light seafood meal, and a sweet desert wine is a good thing to slip granny at the family reunion - maybe she'll nod off before going into her littany of surgeries...
White wines are far easier to produce, and far less complex in taste than red wines.
Champagnes are one of the biggest rip-offs on the planet. They're right up there with "premium" bottled water (as if H2O from one location is better than from another). It's all in the advertising, folks! If you carbonate white wine you get "Champagne" or sparkling wine (this is something that any beer brewer knew since the late Roman period).
How Champagne became an upscale item is rather mysterious - again, like the bottled water phenomena in our lifetimes.
"Popping" a bottle of Champagne gives life to any celebration, and it tastes pleasant and "bubbly" enough that even a non-drinker enjoys it. Yet, it was never considered a fine wine. I suppose the middle classes saw the rich popping bottles and had to imitate. Before long demand outstripped supply (the region of Champagne is limited in size) and prices rose.

Nowadays, "Champagne" (OK, sparkling wine...) is made around the world and you can get a bottle for $10 - $20 or so. Yet, some people will still pay thousands for a particular brand or vintage. Stupidity knows no economic bounds...

Keith in Kodiak


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith In Kodiak
I don't pretend to be an expert, but white wines (including Champagne) are the "Bud Lights" of the wine world. A nice fruity Chardonay is a fine choice for a light seafood meal, and a sweet desert wine is a good thing to slip granny at the family reunion - maybe she'll nod off before going into her littany of surgeries...
White wines are far easier to produce, and far less complex in taste than red wines.
Champagnes are one of the biggest rip-offs on the planet. They're right up there with "premium" bottled water (as if H2O from one location is better than from another). It's all in the advertising, folks! If you carbonate white wine you get "Champagne" or sparkling wine (this is something that any beer brewer knew since the late Roman period).
How Champagne became an upscale item is rather mysterious - again, like the bottled water phenomena in our lifetimes.
"Popping" a bottle of Champagne gives life to any celebration, and it tastes pleasant and "bubbly" enough that even a non-drinker enjoys it. Yet, it was never considered a fine wine. I suppose the middle classes saw the rich popping bottles and had to imitate. Before long demand outstripped supply (the region of Champagne is limited in size) and prices rose.

Nowadays, "Champagne" (OK, sparkling wine...) is made around the world and you can get a bottle for $10 - $20 or so. Yet, some people will still pay thousands for a particular brand or vintage. Stupidity knows no economic bounds...

Keith in Kodiak


Keith........did you know it was actually the English who invented the traditional Champagne process as described below:-

The Millennium - A Celebration worthy of Merret

 The pop of the cork, the stream of mouthfilling bubbles, the fresh yeasty flavour are all very special experiences which have long made sparkling wine from Champagne a natural choice of wine for any celebration. But times are changing; other regions are now producing sparkling wines and other methods of production have been tried. So far, few have managed to match the finesse of a good Champagne made by adding sugar and yeast to a still wine and allowing it to undergo a second fermentation in a closed bottle. It is often claimed that this so-called traditional method was invented in about 1695 in the Champagne region of France by Dom Pérignon, a French monk and winemaker.

It is well documented that the first sparkling Champagne was produced in Champagne at about that time, and it is certainly true that the French did not have the technology to manufacture sparkling wines before 1695 Their glass was not yet strong enough to withstand the pressure generated in the bottle and they were still in the habit of sealing their bottles with wooden stoppers wrapped in cloth. Earlier references to sparkling wines can be found (and what home wine-maker has never experienced a popping cork or an exploding bottle?) but without the necessary technology it would have been impossible deliberately to manufacture a sparkling wine in the bottle. This begs the question - did anyone else possess the technology? Certainly they did!

England was not then a wine-making country but the English were regularly importing still wines in cask, mostly from France, and that includes the Champagne region, and bottling them for resale. Long before the beginning of the 17th century England had strong connections with Portugal and the English had begun to use cork, which provided a more efficient seal than wood or glass to stopper their bottles.

As early as 1630 a retired British Admiral, Sir Robert Mansell, while searching for a way to make coloured glass had invented a manufacturing process incorporating the use of iron and manganese which resulted in English glass bottles being much stronger than those being manufactured in France at that time. Moreover the writings of Sir George Etherege in 1676, nearly twenty years before Dom Pérignon is claimed to have invented sparkling wine, reveal that it was already common practice to render sparkling the still wines that were being imported from Champagne. Indeed the practice had already been referred to as early as 1662 when Christopher Merret presented a paper to the newly formed Royal Society in which he stated that sugar and molasses were being added to wines of all sorts to make them sparkling.

Quite obviously then, it was the English who invented what has since become known as the traditional Champagne process! It should come as no surprise therefore, that having established a reputable still wine industry of their own during the past 50 years, the Brits are turning to the production of English Sparkling Wine with such success.

There are currently about 380 commercial wine producers in the UK. By November 1996 at least 40 of them were known to be producing Sparkling Wine and no doubt the millennium celebrations have tempted more to enter the field. Quality has rapidly improved with winemaking experience and though, like Champagnes, some are better than others, the best of them can honestly claim to compete with the best that Champagne has to offer. If the label says Bottle Fermented or Traditional Method then the wine has been made by the same, original, Merret method and therefore merits further investigation. Forget Dom Pérignon, try some!

John Gibson, Bearsted Vineyards © 2001






Posted by: luckylass

WOW

Guys this stuff about champagne and sparkling wines is fantastic and I am ashamed that I am British and not know this stuff! Are you all champagne alcoholics? LOL. I thank you all for your comments. I love Sussex and that area of England despite not living in that region myself. I am going back to the UK very soon for family reasons and I have to visit London for business reasons. I am going to visit Sussex and that coast area and find out more before I return to Cyprus. I visited Australia in the last 2 years and was subjected to a strawberry and champagne breakfast at the moey and chandon area and was shown the vineyards it was a memorable event for me as i love the stuff. I just had a fantastic evening with my Russian boyfriend who has declared he will miss me too much when i return to the UK and is going to try and come with me. I am soooo happy about that as I love playing host and will try and fit in as many places as i can whilst there if he returns with me. I only hope that he will return the favour by showing me around Moscow and St Petersburg sometime as I want to see those places so much

Thank you all so much for your input.....................


Posted by: Chrismc

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylass
WOW

Guys this stuff about champagne and sparkling wines is fantastic and I am ashamed that I am British and not know this stuff! Are you all champagne alcoholics? LOL. I thank you all for your comments. I love Sussex and that area of England despite not living in that region myself. I am going back to the UK very soon for family reasons and I have to visit London for business reasons. I am going to visit Sussex and that coast area and find out more before I return to Cyprus. I visited Australia in the last 2 years and was subjected to a strawberry and champagne breakfast at the moey and chandon area and was shown the vineyards it was a memorable event for me as i love the stuff. I just had a fantastic evening with my Russian boyfriend who has declared he will miss me too much when i return to the UK and is going to try and come with me. I am soooo happy about that as I love playing host and will try and fit in as many places as i can whilst there if he returns with me. I only hope that he will return the favour by showing me around Moscow and St Petersburg sometime as I want to see those places so much

Thank you all so much for your input.....................



Glad to be of help, people do not realise how good some of the British wines and sparkling wines actually are.....but there are good wines from many other countries also that you never hear much about.

Have a great time when you come back to the UK

Chris


Posted by: luckylass

Thanks for your comments chris much appreciated

Julie


Posted by: etcetera

Back to the original topic...

From the perspective of a RM ...

MissEm, he has a problem which has nothing to do with his nationality.

Just a guess, if he browses the web, you know, the bad kind of sites, that will totally kill his drive. Seriously.

Also, from personal experience, when a man is with a woman he tends to adjust to her, regardless of her breast size. After a while, she is the most attractive woman. Looking at other women is *not* normal regardless of how you look (within reason)



Check out themarriagebed.com


Posted by: luckylass

etcetera

Thanks for your observations believe me if you lived in Cyprus you would see that for the Cypriot male it is the norm. Many Cypriot men visit cabaret constantly which is strictly controlled by the government here as it makes so much money. Also some of my female friends have Cypriot boyfriends and the horror stories abound round this subject. I don’t think I have ever lived anywhere else where it has been the same as this...... now you know why when I met and made friends with Russian people that my boyfriend is Russian as are most of my friend’s lol................


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