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My thoughts: "How do Russian women feel about African or “Black" men?
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Posted by: Lena

Hello

As you might know, I have an "Ask Lena" part of our website http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/russian_women/ where I receive emails from men and post their questions and my responses to their questions.

Today I posted 4 of the questions that I received as well as my answers to them.

Of course, I am presenting my opinions about the questions that I receive, which are based upon what I have experienced in my life, and I certainly respect other's viewpoints to these questions.

Here is one of the questions that I received (and my thoughts about it that I posted on the "Ask Lena" section of the website):

"How do Russian women feel about African or “Black” men? Do Russian women care about a person’s skin color, or do they look at a person’s inner character and personal traits?"

Yes, these are questions and topics that are very relevant these days, so I’d like to share my thoughts on this subject.

I can’t give you an exact answer, because even within Russia, every person and every situation is different.

Some people think that the world is such a beautiful place, and that people are beautiful all over the world, and it doesn’t matter if a man is white, yellow, black. But some people in this world still have a racist mentality.

I’m a Belarusian woman, from Mogilev, which is not a very big city. Perhaps you do not know much about Belarus, because a lot of Western people do not know this country very well and when I answer their questions about where I am from, their eyes become bigger and ask me where is this country?.

I must say that in Minsk, in the capital of my country, there are a lot of black people who receive education, because this is the cheapest education for them and the education is not a bad education.

At this time, Belarusian marriages with ethnic Africans begin NOT to be a rare occurrence because a lot of students from all over the world come to study in Russia and Belarus. Some of them come back to their home countries not only with a diploma but also with a beautiful Russian wife. Psychologically, Russian women are traditional enough and with their famous patience, adapt more easily to life in every traditional culture.

Every Russian woman is different-- some of them will never picture themselves advertising with an international marriage agency, but some of them marry African men and follow them to their countries. When I worked in a marriage agency in my country, I communicated with different women, and on my eyes were born a lot of stories. I saw a lot of examples and met a lot of women of different professions, ages, mentalities, and viewpoints about life. I helped them to fill in their profiles, and some Russian women wrote that they would like to meet a man just from Europe, with only a European appearance. But some of them told me that it doesn’t matter for them what kind of nationality their future husband will be from, and that the most important things are his personality, ability to feel, respect, care, love, and trust. When it comes to love, age, and appearance, skin color means nothing. Of course, this is true!

Now I work with an owner of agency from Belarus, where I previously worked for 2.5 years. One of her girls received a message from one of our clients, African man. She refused to communicate with him because he is black. But another two girls asked for his address so that they can communicate with him. So, you can see that all women are different.

Everybody knows and it’s not a surprise that some people, some years ago and even in this current day, have negative attitudes towards black people; but you shouldn’t be upset and shouldn’t pay attention to such people, because perhaps they met only one, two or three black people in their life. They are not educated and have such feelings not just towards a black person, but in general to all Western people because Westerners are generally thought of in a positive way.

When they travel to Russia and Belarus to study, many Middle Eastern and black students would like to have a girlfriend in the university. Some Russians do not understand why a Russian woman is dating someone from the Middle East or Africa. Some people feel that if the girl met with an African or Middle Eastern man, then it means that she is very low class. The girl’s family is in shock. But sometimes, they realize that they made a mistake in their prejudice. I will give you an example from my real life:

My parents have a friendship with one family who have two very beautiful daughters. These two girls studied in a very prestigious university in Belarus. The parents tried to give everything to their children, from education to good vocations in Europe, expensive cloths, and so on. One of these girls studied in Minsk and I know her very well. One day, their daughter came back home with news that she wanted to marry. The parents were so happy, and had feelings that at last we’ll have a son-in-law and our daughter will bring us grandchildren. But when they discovered that the fiancé of their daughter was an African man who studied with her in the same academic department, they were in shock. This girl often received the attention of men and her family was surprised why she made her decision to be with him. They couldn’t do anything, because her feelings were more valuable and important to her. She thought that her parents were not modern people and she didn’t want to listen to them. The day that the wedding came, the parents felt resigned to her choice, and attended her wedding because she is their lovely child. Two and one half years after the wedding, they live very, very happily in Minsk. They travel a lot, and she visited with him a lot of exotic places. Her father and husband have their own successful business. Her mum helps her with her wonderful child. This child is so cute that everybody stops and pays attention to this pretty boy because it’s impossible to pass this beautiful child. Her parents are happy now, because this African man married not only their daughter but the entire family. He helps the family very much. As her mum says, he remembers every event in the family, and they did not expect that he would all the time be so caring and attentive to everybody. They are sorry that they gave such stress not just to their daughter, but also to him. They do not listen to anything negative that anyone around them might say, because their own family is most important to them, and they live in their own small family world.

I told you a real story from my town, which happened with our family’s friends. I experienced this situation and witnessed the worry of this girl’s parents. I remember the shock that this even was for them. But now they live in peace, love and harmony. These parents have a wonderful son-in-law, and the daughter has a very good husband and lives very, very happily.

I would like to finish my message and advise not to think too much about what a Russian girlfriend’s parents will think, or people who are around either of you. The most important things are what kind of feelings and relationship you will have with each other. As I wrote before, when it comes to Love, skin color means nothing.

Posted by: Aaron Chase

Great story Lena! It inspires me, even if I'm not anything but caucasian. That love isn't about color. It's who 2 people are on the inside, and what they can do together. With her family involved, it multiples. Bravo....

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Chase
even if I'm not anything but caucasian.

So.. are you cauc or asian?

joking

Lena, I am from St-Petersburg, therefore we have same situation with education - that is people of different color. I am totally agree with your answer. It took me a while to adjust to the environment where blacks and mexicans dominate caucasians but still considered a minority.

Posted by: Aaron Chase

Well Nicegirl, I am caucasian. I don't expect anybody to know that. But just because I'm not latino, asian, black, creole, milato, or what have you, doesn't mean that I can't relate to Lena's story!

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Chase
Well Nicegirl, I am caucasian. I don't expect anybody to know that. But just because I'm not latino, asian, black, creole, milato, or what have you, doesn't mean that I can't relate to Lena's story!

why are you so offensive? I just made up a joke.. a positive sarcastic joke. Although it is funny that you named all races but called blacks black, they do have a race name such as African American or African or European African etc. Maybe either use only colors or only race in a sentence.. I can't believe that simple joke was blown out of proportions like that. Lighten up, Aaron

Posted by: searcher

Its good you posted that.

I'm tempted to post an edited version of an email I received from a friend.

He thinks i'm a bit crazy for talking to RW. He has a lot of negative ideas (but can be open minded at times).

Posted by: searcher

It has been edited to remove the unrelated things and the names have been changed.

Alright here it is:

Quote:

.....I still think the whole Russian thing is a big mistake though....again no offense. I'm reading a Clancy book right now 'Red Rabbit' and he usually gives pretty good insight into what countries think about others and he makes it pretty clear in there that Russians are not too hot on blacks.......just a thought dude. I mean the guy ***** even said as much, so you have to wonder if that's the case still. All kidding aside, I think you are setting yourself up for some serious troubles down the line.

See ya when you get back.
-S******.

This is only ONE of the many things he is concerned about. He also expressed that he thought the RW web sites were "a scam by the Russian mafia to milk money from lonely American men".

Of course he wasn't impressed with the show that was on cable T.V. recently (I forget which channel and name). He complained that the women were very cold, in his opinion. I wanted to mention to him that Russians don't show much affection in public. As he may not realize but with T.V. cameras present, they are in public essentially because possible hundreds of thousands or millions of people may watch a T.V. show. If that isn't public, then what is!

One of the women happen to mention that she was concerned about her son being drafted for military duty and being at a high risk (of death), so he believes that was her primary motivation for wanting to leave.

Well, those are his opinions. Some of my other friends are much more encouraging but they have travelled more and are more familiar with other people and other cultures.

Posted by: nicegirl

I just like to say that to me personally, anyone who finish reading Tom Clancy is a hero. I am sorry to say but I get too bored with his style. I also have read few other writers that were trying to draw light onto Russian sitution. I did not find any books that were worth reading - too much russian profenity, outsider's position on things therefore some conclusions that are not even there etc. I would not judge other country by someone else writing, rather have own experience. Searcher, I don't know how many dating agencies are own by mafia and it is hard to find out. I guess at times it is worth to just visit some chat rooms, however, that would mean to limit yourself to women who can afford to sit at pc for hours.

Anyway.. I am kind of lost in subject, I thought we were talking about "black" men... I've met quite few nice guys and I enjoy talking to them, their personality but I would never imagine to go any further then a handshake. I am an old school, althou I am not that old

. Even openmindeness sometimes isn't enough for some things...

Posted by: searcher

Nicegirl,

Sorry about drifting a bit off topic.

I am a black guy thats why I mentioned his letter and his opinion about how he thought blacks were thought about. I just also happen to mention the other things he had issues with as well.

As it is right now, i'm writing to a lady in Omsk. She is very open minded about things. I think this will be an interesting trip when I go early next year as from what i've been told (by Andrei) it is EXTREMELY rare that a black person has been to Omsk. I think the last time he saw a black person, he said it was something like three years.

My lady has travelled a bit so she doesn't have any problems with this i've learned. As she has been exposed to many people and cultures.

I am curious as to what most RW think about this topic, their opinions.

Thanks,
Mark

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone...

Mark... I think it will be very exciting not only to travel to Russia, but to be in a city that apparently hasn't been visited by a black person for three years

That sounds like a real adventure....

I know that many African-Americans travelled to Russian during the first half of the 1900s to escape prejudice in America, and to be a part of what the Communists where touting as an egalitarian society...

I am not sure what these African Americans found when they moved there, but... I am sure that they found both good and bad...

I might copy the part of this thread about African Americans who moved to Russia in another thread....

I also wanted to say that I believe that I am sure that there are Russian women who do not care about a person's color, and are even attracted to "black" skin color, just as there are American women who are attracted to black men... except in Russia, there is not the history of slavery that has shaped the Russian people's psyche regarding black people...

Khashyar

Posted by: nicegirl

Well Searcher, I guess it is a little touchy subject. I hope I didn't offend you with what I've said.

I actually have a friend who got married to a "white" guy who after moved here realized that "black" guys are more appealing to her. She lived in the small town back in Russia and she never got a chance to get to know a person with different skin color. I think major part would be to put skin difference aside as well as society preferences. The more you two will be able to concentrate on each other and the physical attraction (assuming there is a mental attraction

). I really hope things will go well. One of my hubby's neighbours got married to a "white" girl and they are the happiest couple with a wonderful child.

I am going to get off this subject because I added all I could, I hope more women would talk about it. However, I think the most important thing is to have your own experience. I know its not cheap to visit Russia but seems that a lady who you are in contact is well worth the try

Good Luck!

Posted by: searcher

Thanks nicegirl!

No offense was taken. Oddly, the lady i'm corresponding with seems really nice. I should just refer to her as . I guess I kinda had good luck with her. In my list of women to write she was in a tie at the top with another lady (who I found out later was taken). I was a bit put-off and maybe a little intimidated at first about writing her. I had those doubts that everyone goes through at times.

At first I email her and no response, so I followed up with a letter via postal mail (and a suprise enclosed). She deceided to write back and we've been doing very well since.

Funny how things happen!!

-Mark

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher

(and a suprise enclosed).

interesting

Did you mail yourself?

Posted by: barry

My experience with RW and the issue of skin color is much al Lena puts in her original post. It really depends on the individuals involved. Some people are very concerned about skin color and ethnic origin. How many of us "western men" have had to field questions about why RW even when our skin color is the same?

Interracial marriage is becoming more common throughout the world, even in the FSU. My wife has been asked by girlfriends about my skin color and were suprised when she told them because she was married to an Asian man before.

One of our best AM/RW couple friends is a Mexican married to an ethnic Slavic woman from Kazakhstan. We know other "racial" mixes as well! So for all or you folks that are of other ethnic/racial persuaisons, forge ahead and you too will find the happiness that you seek.

Barry

Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks for the positive examples of interacial Russian-Western marriages...

I completely agree that it depends on the two people involved, and that there are Russian women who are not prejudice about a person's skin color and ethnic background...

Khashyar

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by nicegirl
interesting Did you mail yourself?

LOL!!!!!!

That would have been a nice trip but the envelope is a bit small

I wanted to distinguish myself from the other who may have written so I enclosed some red rose petals in my envelope. Since I ouldn't send a whole rose in the mail easily. Of course, I also use a nice envelope as well

It didn't hurt any, she even mentioned that it was nice!

Just don't give away my secret

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
LOL!!!!!!

That would have been a nice trip but the envelope is a bit small

I wanted to distinguish myself from the other who may have written so I enclosed some red rose petals in my envelope. Since I ouldn't send a whole rose in the mail easily. Of course, I also use a nice envelope as well

It didn't hurt any, she even mentioned that it was nice!

Just don't give away my secret

Hey Mark,

a little off topic if I may. Yourof something I did not too long ago. I am growing roses on my backyard and that is a big change from little appartment in SpB. I thought I would make a surprise to my mother and mail her the whole rose, flower that is. It took about 3 weeks for mail to get to her and surprise was awaiting me in return. She said that there was some weired ziplock bag with some mush(?) inside and she was scared to open it. After couple of minutes of describing, we realized that it was that rose.

OK.. maybe I got a green thumb by moving to US but I still have loooong ways to go towards knowledge of things that cannnot be mailed. So.. good thing you didn't mail yourself because you can imagine what you would have looked like after such trip

As far as your secret goes, you didn't put copyrights at the end, therefore I will write a book about mailing rose petals to get attention and take all proceeds to myself

(just kidding)

Posted by: searcher

LOL Nicegirl,

Yeah, it wouldn't have been pretty!!!!!

I mailed some CD's to Andrei and he can tell you about the condition they arrived in.

He said the CD's themselves were fine but the cases were smashed quite a bit!

So, I learned something from that. Pack everything like you're shipping eggs!!!!!!

I have a package i'm going to send monday, so I better pack it carefully thats for sure!!!!!!

Now, as for my little secret:

"Rose petals in the envelope"
(C) 2003 Searcher

Thats the best I could do without using HTML.

Posted by: Khashyar

Searcher...

Now you own the copyright, and can collect royalties from anyone sending rose petals in their letters

Posted by: nicegirl

OK.. "sending roses in ziplock bag" (C) nicegirl...

Sounds like its time to open thread about copyrights

)

Searcher, I was just curious.. Are there other couples that you can get in touch that are interracial? I bet that would greatly help with expectations or any future surprises. Have you learned any Russian? My hubby of 5 years still can only say 4 sentences plus can record a message on answer machine without actually knowing what he said

I think its really cool when people are trying to speak Russian. I always found tourists that tried to speak Russian back in SpB and even a lot of them couldn't say much but I had the greatest respect for them.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by nicegirl
OK.. "sending roses in ziplock bag" (C) nicegirl...

Sounds like its time to open thread about copyrights )

Searcher, I was just curious.. Are there other couples that you can get in touch that are interracial? I bet that would greatly help with expectations or any future surprises. Have you learned any Russian? My hubby of 5 years still can only say 4 sentences plus can record a message on answer machine without actually knowing what he said I think its really cool when people are trying to speak Russian. I always found tourists that tried to speak Russian back in SpB and even a lot of them couldn't say much but I had the greatest respect for them.

Interracial AW/AM or interracial RM/AM??

If its AM/AM, I was in a marriage of this sort but she had (still is having) severe psychological problems, thus causing it to end.

I have always been open in this regard and don't have any racial preferences - Black, White, Asian, Hispanic - people are people are people as far as i'm concerned.

I don't know any interracial RW/AM couples, in this regard.

Also, yes i'm learning Russian. After reading a post from another member (I forgot who it was) I got a simple 4 CD based course from Pimsler.

I have some books and they are alright. I can remember the spellings of some words but as far as remembering the alphabet - the names of the letters and their order, forget it!!!! At least for now.

I think once I become more familiar with some things I may be able to remember the alphabet easier. As it is the way I remember how to spell words is that I associate the characters with something familiar, so I just recall some unusual phrases

and then I can remember the spelling (or should I say the way to write the characters).

Like my first name "Mapk" or "Mapka" I just remember (in English) "Map-Kay" or "Map-kah" .

It may seem unusual but it works for me

Another example the cyrillic character "þ" I just remember I.O. like "Input-Output" and I remember to connect the two, like I-O.

I know they are written differently than they are typed but writing them this way works alright for me. That is my handwritten addresses seem to make it to their destinations alright without problems.

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher

I know they are written differently than they are typed but writing them this way works alright for me. That is my handwritten address seem to make it to their destinations alright without problems.

Hats off to workers of Russian post office

When is their National day? I remember having a calendar with tear off pages and seems daily we would have some type of holiday, ie reason to celebrate

Searcher, when are you planning to visit Russia? Is it hard to get visa? I wish government would make it easier for relatives to visit US, seems that I have zero chances of seeing my younger brother any time soon (I would visit him myself but I am too spoiled with warm weather

)

Posted by: searcher

I'm planning to go in early or mid feb., possibly even the end of jan.

Around that time I guess. Its still in the early stages but I definately plan to go.

I have to schedule time off with my job and I have a good part of the money but need a little more. So, i'm saving some more cash now.

Posted by: nicegirl

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
I'm planning to go in early or mid feb., possibly even the end of jan.

Brrrr.. coldest part of the winter. Good luck with your trip, don't forget to buy "ushanka" as soon as you enter "beskrainie prostori Rossii"

Posted by: searcher

Yeah, i'm going to need a nice warm hat at that time of year with the cold weather there.

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
Yeah, i'm going to need a nice warm hat at that time of year with the cold weather there.

You better be sure we'll help you with that. But to get from the airport to the shop, you'll have to have a warm coat on at least. January in Siberia is no joke brah))))

Posted by: searcher

I've got a nice long wool overcoat.

I also need a scarf or something too.

Posted by: Danika

searcher -- good luck with your lady; I think sending rose petals in a letter is awfully sweet and romantic and she must have loved it

One of my friends back in Latvia is married with a black american, a really amazing couple and after 7 years they still seem to be very much in love ... of course they still do get stares on the streets, but everybody who knows them personally just adores George (because he is really cool as a person). He also is almost fluent in Latvian and sings in a Latvian choir, wearing a Latvian traditional costume (they live in Latvia).

So, everything really depends on your luck in finding the right person, for which your chances are no less than someone's with a different tone of the skin ...

Posted by: andrei

Mark, I 've found a black man in Omsk!!!!

He's a DJ in one of the clubs me & my pals never been to because we thought it was wack!

He lives in Kirov, but every Wednesday he arrives on a train to host a show called "The Color Of The Night". He's tall and has a sharp sense of humor and good Russian talk. I've just seen him on TV. So you won't be the only one here!!!!!!

P.S. Check ya' mail.

Posted by: searcher

Interesting!!!!

Posted by: rtking

Quote:

He's a DJ in one of the clubs me & my pals never been to because we thought it was wack!

Andrei! Man, we need to get you to watch something other than MTV! "Wack?" Well, either that or I'm just getting old and un-hip.

Personally, I think it's really cool that the world is becoming more multi-cultural. One world, one people, y'know?

Bob K.

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by rtking
Andrei! Man, we need to get you to watch something other than MTV! "Wack?" Well, either that or I'm just getting old and un-hip.

Personally, I think it's really cool that the world is becoming more multi-cultural. One world, one people, y'know?

Bob K.

Sorry Bob!

English is not my native language and some of the words I just dont know exactly when & where to use. I thought it was just another slang word, I didnt know it sounds childish. From now on, gotta exclude it from my lexicon.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by andrei
Sorry Bob!

English is not my native language and some of the words I just dont know exactly when & where to use. I thought it was just another slang word, I didnt know it sounds childish. From now on, gotta exclude it from my lexicon.

Actually Andrei,

It is a slang term and you used it in the right context. I just think he isn't familiar with it, thats all.

You have probably heard it used in the music and other things you've been listening to.

Posted by: rtking

I was just saying that "wacK' is used amongst the young people! And at 36 years of age, I'm a bit too old to be considered cool enough to use that word!

Party on, Dude!!

Bob

Posted by: Letty

Posted by: Cman

Lena On the subject of belarus; I have some knowledge on Your former country,home land.Since i seek a girl from a Town/city called VITEBSK,Ive have even went as far and purchased books,Vieado's,Internet web sites on the subject.
But you being from Belarus,may you be so kind and enlighten me on the question I ask,?
=============================================
Rtking: pardon me,I know the word "whack" Nahh i wouldn't say your not cool or you shouldn't stop useing words of that.That My freind,as I see it,as you being a open kinda guy,I give you credit
to be open..Your not old to speak and talk in a younger climate
YOUR NOT racist or hold any ill feeling's towards people whom may use it,as its used in all over this great country,as I see it,people whom use words like this,aren;t preduice just have a wealth of info,and Knolwegde,
I kinda find it,amuseing and fun,and refreshing to hear people
say things like that...You my freind i can tell,work with people of all types.and wait if you decide to marry a girl younger,you will have a long loving realsonship,cause she and you can be on a great wave lenth,soo talk as you may,and think young and you will enjoy
have fun people

Posted by: searcher

Interesting reading after all of this time has passed.

Much has happened since then

Posted by: dakotaridge

I think racism is the number one subject where Americans have been conditioned by the thought police. Nobody would dare speak out if their feelings weren't in total alignment with political correctness.

Basically every person has two distinct personalities: who they are when they're alone, and who they become in a group. Since marrying a black man will most likely put a woman into a predominantly black social life, in the majority of cases (and we can argue this but just look around! Whites hang with whites, Latinos hang with Latinos, etc. as a strong rule). She needs to consider both situations because they're both going to affect her life profoundly.

I had many very close black friends in the army. They were incredible people. The neighbors in my last house - a mostly-white neighborhood - were incredibly nice, very religious, even had the best looking lawn in town year after year. But when it comes to the group culture ... forget it. I hate it, I find it very alienating, offensive and distasteful. That's just the way I react to it, and I'm allowed to have that reaction. It doesn't mean there are deep psychological issues going on. I also hate the cowboy culture, the nightclub culture, and a host of others. It has nothing to do with skin color per se. It's cultural. The speech, the music that predominates, the style of dress, etc. are all things that irritate me to no end. Just like stetsons and rodeos and the massive insecurity that (in my experience) most cowboys pour out regarding their costumes. You'll find very few people who are not equally selective about the cultures they choose to partake in and the ones they choose to avoid.

But even in the "worst case," we're taught that it's basically illegal to dislike somebody because of their skin color. Says who? If somebody just doesn't like black skin, how is that any better or worse than my having a strong dislike for red hair? Or tight poodle curls? People are so easily led by the herd, as if what goes on in their own minds and emotions is something that their culture can tell them is "right" and "wrong." It's amazing how readily people accept this. My personal feeling is, even if you dislike blacks just because of their skin color, you're allowed to feel that way, you're not wrong, and you don't need to apologize for it - or correct your flawed feelings. When you begin taking steps to eliminate or hurt them, then there's a problem. A serious one. But if you just don't like them, there is NO problem; that's how you feel. Avoid them, live your life, etc.

It's amazing how it's okay for a white woman to prefer black men and dismiss white men based on the color of their skin but according to American culture she's not allowed to do the reverse. You can accept and embrace somebody because of his skin color but only if it's not white; you can only reject him on the same basis if his skin color IS white. And people actually buy into this. Is this deluded or what?

Posted by: searcher

I understand and agree with you in part but I think much of this "culture" is something that is perpetuated by the media.

The media (mostly television) for many defines what is in vogue, what is acceptable and perhaps considered standard for many people.

The culture you describe may be the mainstream but for me it is not the only culture for a particular group but the one which predominates.

Think about this, stereotypically people associate foods such as chitterlings (pronounced: chit-lins) with Black/African-Americans. For my mothers family it is quite odd because they are all from the mid-west (Nebraska, Iowa and South Dakota) but that food is something from SOUTHERN Black culture.

When my mother came to Los Angeles from South Sioux City Nebraska she thought many of the Blacks here had a southern accent.

This seems to be the dominant thing here yet my mother, me and our relatives are often said to sound "white".

To me, I find it a bit offensive to use that term. Not because of any color or racial issues but language doesn't have a color. To me it is simply correct grammar or incorrect grammar!

I don't agree with creating other dialects (such as ebonics) or with "bi-lingual" education. I think we all need to speak the SAME language and not create more things which divide us or make it more difficult to communicate.

Rather than focusing on things such as dialects why not teach people how to correctly conjugate words or to be articulate.

Another thing, getting back to "culture", I also find it offensive when certain types of music are referred to by color (race). For example I like the following bands/groups: Fishbone, Living Colour, The Family Stand, Jimi Hendrix these are rock bands but some people would refer to them as playing "white" music.

Well, first, I don't see any colors coming from the music and i'm not about to drop some acid to see the colors either!

Second, rock was originally started by Black musicians - Chuck Berry for example and continued by others such as Jimi Hendrix, etc... there continues to be "Black" rock bands.

I simply would prefer that everyone listens to whatever they like without any labels or stigmas being attached to them.

I would also prefer that the media stop perpetuating these things and we all just forgot about pointless color issues and labels.

Posted by: dakotaridge

Actually, just "telling it like it is," in my opinion, the music coming from the black culture is overwhelmingly far superior to any other. It seems every major "trend" in music was started and mastered by somebody with black skin. All of it, it seems. Jazz, boogie woogie, gospel, rock, etc. When there's a major innovation in music, there's usually somebody black behind it. Try finding anybody "non-black" who can possibly hope to compare to Aretha Franklin's voice. I could easily list a hundred others. And speaking of gospel, for me personally, nothing else compares. And this is from a guy who far prefers to play Van Halen-type riffs every time he picks up his guitar; who owns 300+ old vinyl albums (remember those?) comprised of 98% metal and hard rock. I find it kind of sad that the only thing you really get to hear out of the black culture since 1980 or so is (c)rap, hip-hop (s*** hop), etc. And for me, any black choir singing gospel is something I could listen to for a thousand years and never get tired of it.

What has always infuriated me is that book "The Bell Curve." I never read it, but my understanding is that it claims blacks have some kind of genetic intelligence gap. I could be wrong since I never read the book, but if I'm correct, that's got to be the most destructive piece of garbage ever published. The blacks I've met in my life are no different than any other race - they span the entire spectrum in every area from intelligence to integrity. It's purely an individual thing. The only genetically-based claims you can make about the black race are that they are often very bad swimmers and extremely good runners. I find it odd that there are so few black pitchers in baseball. Anyway for me, each person is taken as an individual, not because it's correct to do so, but because that's what my experience says is warranted. They're just people and aside from swimming, skin pigmentation is exactly as important as hair color. Groups are a different story because they adopt certain culturally based behavior that just rubs me the wrong way, but as individuals, I have never seen anything whatsoever to suggest that somebody with black skin is inherently good, bad, smart, dumb, or anything else. The only assumption I make is that man or woman, they can probably run to the front range and back before I could be halfway there on my bike.

Posted by: DavidC

Dakotaridge,

The book, The Bell Curve, was published by Herrnstein and Murray in 1994. It caused a lot of heated debate in various college campuses.

I talked to one of very well-known anthropologists who subscribed to the similar theory but very afraid to publish a paper.

According to his unpublished paper, he did two experiments. He counted the number of mitochondria within a cell among blacks and whites. Mitochondria are the cells' power sources. According to his research, blacks have higher number of Mitochondria than whites. Thus, cells can produce more energy within short period of time, if you have higher number of mitochondria. So according to his paper, that's why blacks are much better at short distant running.

In his 2nd experiment, he measured the weight/size of brain among blacks and whites. Then find the ratio of brain size vs. body weight/size. He was suggesting that higher brain/body ratio indicates superior intellect (Only animal which has higher brain/body ratio than human is dorphin, not elephant -- though elephant has bigger brain than human, they have bigger body size).

His paper stated that blacks on the average have slightly bigger size of head. But the blacks' skull is much thicker than whites. So if you subtract the skull size, the brain/body raito is much higher for whites than blacks.

I accept his explanation for why blacks are better short distant runners than whites. I am also willing to accept that whites brain/body ratio is higher than blacks as they are just data.

But I do have a problem accepting higher brain/body ratio implies higher intelligence as intelligence could mean many things -- book smart, street smart, resourcefulness, different kind of talents, etc.

Posted by: dakotaridge

David,

I wish I could remember more specifics about where I hear things; in this case I remember it was some TV show I saw but I can't remember much beyond that (low brain to body weight ratio?) Anyway the show was about some researcher who was hooking up all kinds of wires to some guy's brain, trying to find the exact point in the brain where decisions are made. He could apply current to certain points of the brain and make any body part move (okay let's keep this clean!) like the arms, legs, etc. but when told to do so, the subject was always able to override the impulse and prevent the part from moving. The conclusion was that the part of the brain that makes decisions could not be isolated.

Which only supports my own belief that the brain is merely an interface. It's a connector, nothing more; decisions, intelligence, creativity, etc. are all non-physical processes that will never be pinned down to any physical source. I suppose that by damaging the brain you could hinder the flow of information, but the source of "intelligence" of any kind, I contend, is not in the physical body. Which of course crosses over into non-physical realms which science has a hard time dealing with anyway. I've seen too many blacks who were extremely intelligent to ever believe anything about their mental abilities is genetically controlled on a large scale. And you're absolutely right; sometimes that intelligence is applied to street smarts, etc. which requires every bit as much of any mentally-based resource you could name as any conventionally labeled "intelligent" pursuit.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Dakota, what you're saying about the inferiority of whites vis-a-vis blacks in music talent is not really true if you look at the great musical talent of Eastern and Southern Slavs. Just listen to something from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Ukraine or Russia ... and then come back and claim white people can't sing or dance.

Posted by: dakotaridge

Quote:

Originally posted by Pawel_PL.USA
Dakota, what you're saying about the inferiority of whites vis-a-vis blacks in music talent is not really true if you look at the great musical talent of Eastern and Southern Slavs. Just listen to something from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Ukraine or Russia ... and then come back and claim white people can't sing or dance.

This is probably true, since we're talking about things relative to exposure. Popularity can't be obtained where mass exposure doesn't occur. There could be a thousand guitarists out there (and I'm not one of them) who make Eddie Van Halen look like an amateur; they've just never been "discovered" or brought into the mainstream. I always whined about whatever-magazine's annual "sexiest man alive" stuff, since the pool of men they choose from is limited to a handful of celebrities among a population of roughly 150 million men.

Incidentally, I grew up in Han(g)over Park / Schaumburg; are you in the actual city?

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Ridge, I realize it's all about promotion ... and the English-speaking Afro-American artist always has an edge in reaching an English-speaking American audience than some poor Yugo or Russian artist.

If you want, Ridge, I can burn and send you some great stuff I have from Yugoslavia. I'm sure that after you hear Mile Kitic or Dragana Mirkovic you'll be hooked !

I am in the acutal city, but my dad lives in Hoffman Estates/Schaumburg and I grew up there. Nice area, though I preffer the city since I'm just a city kind of guy.

Posted by: guinda

I'm white and live in Europe.
I have seen a lot of European and north american girls who are crazy about black men.
We assume it's because of their wild, unlimited sexual libido or perhaps their large....
Honestly I sometimes feel jealous at their popularity, though I have never seen a long lasting relationship between a black guy and a white gal.

Posted by: dakotaridge

Quote:

Originally posted by guinda
I'm white and live in Europe.
I have seen a lot of European and north american girls who are crazy about black men.
We assume it's because of their wild, unlimited sexual libido or perhaps their large....
Honestly I sometimes feel jealous at their popularity, though I have never seen a long lasting relationship between a black guy and a white gal.

I was stationed in Germany (Augsburg) from 2/79 through 5/81. For my entire stay there, I saw a German girl with a white American a total of one time. The other 9999 times, if you were white, forget it, die Frauen would just as soon see you dead as look at you. I make no comment about this being good, bad or indifferent; just stating it was the case.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

I see......but please don't make assumptions. That is part of the problem, Black males are no different than anyone else. I think it is bad to perpetuate this stereotype.

My fiance love me for who I am not what she thinks I have, etc...

My ex-wife was not Black. Our marriage lasted 10+ years but she [literally] has some serious psychological problems.

I would NOT want to be with a woman that only wants me because of those stereotypes!

A relationship based ONLY upon sex or stereotypes most likely would not last and is not built upon any solid foundations.

Quote:

I think in varies. I had a German girlfriend once but she simply was attracted to Black men, nothing more - not because of some sexual stereotype.

I think you will find various women around the world attracted to various types of men.

The was a post on the internet where a man lived in an African country and the women there only wanted White males (similar to what you have said about the German women).