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What a Train Wreck!!!
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Posted by: AkMike

I'm still shakeing my head over news I just recieved. This is going to sound like something out of Ripley's Believe It Or Not.
A friend of Tanya's(we'll call Sarah,age 38) has been posting her profile on several dating
sites and using Tanya's computer to write back with. Many times Tanya will just read her the replies over the phone and this lady will give a 1 or 2 sentence reply for Tanya to write back to the sender. She doesn't bother to reply herself most of the time.
About 2 months ago 2 men started writing her at the same time.
The first was a retired coroner (age 71)from a mid-western state that stated in one of the first letters that all he does now is "dabble" in the stock market. He visits his daughter in Paris about once a month. After just a month of writing he wrote to tell her of his love for her. A visit is very quickly arrainged for them to meet in Kiev. He frowns at her when he see's that she is indeed 5'10" and he is alot shorter.With him knowing no russian and she knowing very few words of english they met and spent the night together. They next morning he checks his email and suddenly learns that his dog was hit by a car and he has to rush back to the US to take care of the dog. LOL, right.
During this same time span another guy from Canada is writing her several times a day. She only wrote to him a few letters herself. Tanya wrote him everyfew days using a few sentences from Sarah. The Canadian came for a visit just as I was getting ready to leave on the 16th. I met him and he seemed like a nice guy. This morning I found out that he's already declared his undying love and proposed! She even accepted.. I find it totally unbelieveable that with so little time together and such little communication that either of them could act like this.
Is it just me or do I see the smoke from train wreck on the horizion?

Posted by: Texas Proud

He Mike,

I think you see a train wreck... is she a beauty? It seems strange that she is accepting so soon if she is...

For the curious of us, any picture of her?

Texas

Posted by: AkMike

She is good looking but not a beauty IMO. But that's subjective. I do have pics of her from the New Years party, but I won't post them.I just can't believe that she is so carefree about this. Tanya and I are very suprised at the whole thing.
I wonder if she is maybe jealous about how hapy Tanya and I are together.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Can you explain to me how it is her fault that these men decide on their own that they love her? Or perhaps you think she should act as a demure Southern Belle, and can not participate in liberal sex and fall head over heels if she finds a guy to fall with her? Can it be that you and Tanya are not really so important in her life that she bases her most important lifestyle choices around her supposed incessent jealousy of your and Tanya's perfection?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
Can you explain to me how it is her fault that these men decide on their own that they love her? Or perhaps you think she should act as a demure Southern Belle, and can not participate in liberal sex and fall head over heels if she finds a guy to fall with her? Can it be that you and Tanya are not really so important in her life that she bases her most important lifestyle choices around her supposed incessent jealousy of your and Tanya's perfection?

Or maybe he is wondering is she is REALLY in love after sleeping with a 71 year old and then saying yes to a marriage proposal quickly??? His questions is 'is this a train wreck', not 'is it her fault'.

Posted by: AkMike

I'm not sying that it's her fault for them speaking of love. The old guy was just playing her. Making the trip "worthwhile" and using the dog as an escape route. He hasn't written since the 'dog' incident.
The Canadian hasn't had a chance either by email or in person to get to know much about her. He is driving this train. I can't see this lasting.

Posted by: Junior

Quote:

Originally posted by AkMike
The first was a retired coroner (age 71)from a mid-western state that stated in one of the first letters that all he does now is "dabble" in the stock market. He visits his daughter in Paris about once a month. After just a month of writing he wrote to tell her of his love for her. A visit is very quickly arrainged for them to meet in Kiev. He frowns at her when he see's that she is indeed 5'10" and he is alot shorter.With him knowing no russian and she knowing very few words of english they met and spent the night together. They next morning he checks his email and suddenly learns that his dog was hit by a car and he has to rush back to the US to take care of the dog. LOL, right.

At 38, “Sarah” should be smart enough to know that this old-slob could not be in love with her without never meeting with her in person, spending some time together (I don’t mean in bed), and learning if real compatibility exists between them. If the old-fool was the one who initiated the sleeping together; it should have been a huge warning sign to her that the old-slob just wanted to score with a younger woman and did not want a real commitment. She is going to end up getting burned really bad if she does not practice much more caution in developing a true relationship. However, I get the impression that she does not want a true relationship based on love and respect for each other. (Just my opinion/observation, for what that’s worth.)

Posted by: lechef

I do believe in the saying you make your bed now you have to sleep in it. So on that note I think this is a disaster in the making as anything rushed into without a sound decision usually backfires with some type of consequences. I do not understand why folks rush into things with out really knowing all the fact instead of making a decision based on emotions and on the whim.

Posted by: AkMike

I can't believe either and or both of them would act so rashly after only 2 days of being together.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by AkMike
I can't believe either and or both of them would act so rashly after only 2 days of being together.

Ah, stories of "One Week Wonders" are to be found in many places...

Posted by: inlove

I don't want to disappoint you guys, but this story is way more typical to Wester-Russian internet romances than findung a true love and developing a real relationship. Her objective, probably, is to leave the country. The old dude was too much for her, although if he proposed, she might have accepted as well.. But he did not like her either, so everything worked out for the better between them.. The canadian's motifs are a mistery to me, but maybe he has a reason to rush into marriage himself... Her motifs, on the other had, are pretty clear..

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
The canadian's motifs are a mistery to me, but maybe he has a reason to rush into marriage himself... Her motifs, on the other had, are pretty clear..

Here is an idea about the canadian... Its cold as hell up there and is in need of a cuddle buddy ASAP. Them Canadians are a bit off anyways.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by lechef
Here is an idea about the canadian... Its cold as hell up there and is in need of a cuddle buddy ASAP. Them Canadians are a bit off anyways.

He-he

Very well could be. It is never early to start preparing for the next winter.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

As I said before I don't see how it is her fault that God delivered for her a perfect fool and she should want to use him! I do find it enlightening how certain American men must believe that it can only be her jealousy of him and his fiance. What is the word - conceited?

Posted by: AkMike

I don't have any ego to nurse here. I can sit back and observe her and her actions during this. I've seen first hand how she has acted when I've been with Tanya. I haven't mentioned some of the other red flags she has shown me because they aren't needed for this.
She has a 10yo. boy that needs a daddy. I think she wants to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I doubt that she has given any thought to the long term.

Just what his thoughts are is beyond me.

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
What is the word - conceited?

Don't you me confendance..lol

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by AkMike
I don't have any ego to nurse here. I can sit back and observe her and her actions during this. I've seen first hand how she has acted when I've been with Tanya. I haven't mentioned some of the other red flags she has shown me because they aren't needed for this.
She has a 10yo. boy that needs a daddy. I think she wants to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I doubt that she has given any thought to the long term.

Just what his thoughts are is beyond me.

She might have been jealous, alright, but probaly less of your loving relationship, and more of the fact that her peer found a western man, who can take her out of country and give her the financial and other stability.. I don't think she is looking for a farther for her son. At least this is not her main priority. She does not even know if they will get along! Common, what about a 71-year old? Also as a farther for her son?

She is killing 2 birds with one stone. She is getting herself and her child out of the country.. And after all, maybe they will fall in love and live happily ever after, who knows?

More power to her, anyway, here is a brave woman!

Posted by: AkMike

Brave? I think NOT!!!
She's just grabbing at what ever rolls thru the door. That's not something to be admired IMHO. I'd call that lazy, not brave.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by AkMike: I think she wants to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

AlaskaMike- I apologize for this wisecrack in advance

but this is irresistible!

She wanted to kill 2 birds, and all she got were 2 b

lls.

You would think she would get a t-shirt that read:

I bedded a 71 year old retired coroner... and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.

Posted by: inlove

I've attempted to be sarcastic in my previous post, AkMike. Obviously, I'm not admiring everything.. To live with a person you don't love, to move to a strange country, where you don't know anybody, dragging a child along.. There is nothing to admire.. only to feel sorry.. But she is the maker of her own destiny, it was her choice to say "Yes", so I wish her a good luck in her new life..

Posted by: AkMike

BradIl. Good one!

Inlove, sorry I took it at face value.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
As I said before I don't see how it is her fault that God delivered for her a perfect fool and she should want to use him! I do find it enlightening how certain American men must believe that it can only be her jealousy of him and his fiance. What is the word - conceited?

I guess the difference between me (and some other Americans, but not all) is that if 'God' delivered a fool, you do NOT take advantage of them... that it is morally wrong...

But, I guess that Russians will take advantage and laugh at the fool... is this not a sad state of affairs?

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
I guess the difference between me (and some other Americans, but not all) is that if 'God' delivered a fool, you do NOT take advantage of them... that it is morally wrong...

But, I guess that Russians will take advantage and laugh at the fool... is this not a sad state of affairs?

There are plenty of Americans who would take advange of a fool and laugh at him afterwords. .

Posted by: AkMike

This is an excerpt from a letter I recieved from Tanya today.

{"Sarah" and "Joe" went to a jewelery store to by a wedding rings.Sure
Galya happy, but I see, that she is not love John, and how can she
love him, if she know him 4 or 5 days??? Any way, she want it, she
will take it. Any way I invited them to my appartment tomorrow, and
going to make "vareniky" for them.}

Not everyone will be happy about this either. I think it is more of a mutual desperation situation. I think that "Sarah" is somewhat lazy after being around her.
"Joe" , I wasn't around him much so I'm baffled about his perspective.
I hope that it will work out in the long run but I have doubts.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
There are plenty of Americans who would take advange of a fool and laugh at him afterwords. .

Inlove,

I agree, which is why I said so in my original post.. However, you said

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
As I said before I don't see how it is her fault that God delivered for her a perfect fool and she should want to use him!

So, even you seem to believe that it is OK to use the fool... to take advantage of him (or her as the case may be).. that is the excuse of all of the people that take advantage of others... well, they deserve to be screwed over becasue they do not know any better..

What I am saying is she is not being moral to do so, and no excuse can change that.. and I have read a number of comments that it is OK as a Russian to do so... again, general comment and it is not everyone.. but from reading it seems so.

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
Inlove,

I agree, which is why I said so in my original post.. However, you said

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
As I said before I don't see how it is her fault that God delivered for her a perfect fool and she should want to use him!

So, even you seem to believe that it is OK to use the fool... to take advantage of him (or her as the case may be).. that is the excuse of all of the people that take advantage of others... well, they deserve to be screwed over becasue they do not know any better..

What I am saying is she is not being moral to do so, and no excuse can change that.. and I have read a number of comments that it is OK as a Russian to do so... again, general comment and it is not everyone.. but from reading it seems so.

I agree with you Texas you should never morally take advantage of someone for being naive to a situation. For me personally I could not sleep well at night knowing I have done so. As my good Russian friend say(a woman) Russian are the best at taking advantage of an opportunity..

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by lechef
As my good Russian friend say(a woman) Russian are the best at taking advantage of an opportunity..

That's true.. Russian mentality is a mentality of a survivor. if there is an opportunity they will take it, unless it is in a conflict with the law. In this case not every russian will rush into the opportunity.

In this particular case, it is still a big question who the fool actually is.. She did not scam him, did not force him to propose, or anything like that.. What are his motifs to rush into marriage? What if she is the fool being taken advantage of?

I, personally, would not be able to live with somebody I don't love.. It does not work for me.. But many people do, and quite successfully.. I would not use the fool to take advantage of, because I was not raised this way, and I cannot do it.. But I'm very well aware that there are plenty people around that do, and many of them build their millions this way, and than get into Forbes's "100 most successful people"..

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
But I'm very well aware that there are plenty people around that do, and many of them build their millions this way, and than get into Forbes's "100 most successful people"

Ain't that the truth but in the end they have to wake up every morning with them selfs.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by lechef
Ain't that the truth but in the end they have to wake up every morning with them selfs.

I don't think most of them suffer from some kind of moral remorse. Qiuet the contrary, for the most part they are enjoying the life that they got, and writing autobiographies titled "How I became successful in life".

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
I don't think most of them suffer from some kind of moral remorse. Qiuet the contrary, for the most part they are enjoying the life that they got, and writing autobiographies titled "How I became successful in life".

but then again are they really happy, I guess we will never know.

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by lechef
but then again are they really happy, I guess we will never know.

This is a very philosophical question, lechef.. Nobody truely knows if someone other than him/her is really happy, unless they profess it, and even then people like to keep up appearances, even if they are misarable inside.. On top of it, people have different definitions of hapiness and what it entails..

P.S. By the way, I've read your posts in Literature forum and responded to them... If you are interested to continue a discussion about russian cullture and literature, let me know..

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by inlove
That's true.. Russian mentality is a mentality of a survivor. if there is an opportunity they will take it, unless it is in a conflict with the law. In this case not every russian will rush into the opportunity.

In this particular case, it is still a big question who the fool actually is.. She did not scam him, did not force him to propose, or anything like that.. What are his motifs to rush into marriage? What if she is the fool being taken advantage of?

I, personally, would not be able to live with somebody I don't love.. It does not work for me.. But many people do, and quite successfully.. I would not use the fool to take advantage of, because I was not raised this way, and I cannot do it.. But I'm very well aware that there are plenty people around that do, and many of them build their millions this way, and than get into Forbes's "100 most successful people"..

Bravo!! I am glad to see that you are a good person... opinionated

... but your stock went up with me on this...

And yes, I would say that a lot of people would take advantage.. and a lot of people stay in a marriage with no love... they might have gotten married and been in love, or thought they were in love, but do not love anymore.. but still stay married...

I do not fault a woman from FSU getting married to make sure her children are well taken care of, even if she is not in love... I hope it does not happen to me and will make as sure as possible it does not...

Posted by: FlashingEyes

The first thing I look for in valuing another's opinion is the other person's ability to speak truth. It is, sadly, one of the great weaknesses of American society that Americans deceive themselves with illogical assumptions about themselves, which of course leads to logical deductions from these false assumptions that are not valid. For example, recently several Americans here have commented about how they and many other Americans would never take advantage of a fool. But I am sure if I asked these same Americans if they believe in and follow the principals of capitalism, they would say "yes", and in fact they do follow these economic principals every day. Yet the essence of capitalism is competition, and the essence of competition is using every advantage within the rules to succeed. So in fact anyone operating as a capitalist will necessarily take advantage of fools. I could point out to members here that those that are part of business organizations take part in joint efforts to take advantage of fools every day. Every day, the winning of bids, the selling of products, the buying of supplies, are all based on trying to get as much value as possible, and whenever a fool presents himself to overpay or undersell, then advantage is taken. Similarly, the buying or selling of houses, of cars, and even of everyday products involves the capitalist idea of taking advatage of another's foolishness. I am not including stealing from an untended register here, or even taking that extra $20 that the cashier returned to you accidently, because these are technically outside the legal rules, but I am including buying that product that the store accidently marked at a lower price than it should have. How many of you that say you would not take advantage of a fool, when the stocker at the grocery store has marked a product for $1.10, but the register shows the intended price for the product is $1.50, has never asked the store to make good on the marked price? Or how many of you if someone steadfastly offered to pay double the market value for your house, would not say "thank you" and sell, buying your neighbor's house (exactly the same as yours) for half what your buyer paid and cashing in the rest? Of course to avoid taking advantage of this fool you should refuse to sell to him, no matter how much he offers to overpay. I suspect you all take advantage of fools. Certainly I have and that is why I proudly say that I take advantage of fools. In this respect I suppose I am not the "good person", but if to be the "good person" I have to participate in false claims of "goodness", I think I would rather be labled however you lable me, and in my own mind retain the serenity of honesty.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Flashing Eyes,

Interesting, but in my opinion not completely relevent.. capitalism (mostly) is based on a system that is a win - win. Yes, you try to maximize your win. The difference is if you are doing so by lying about what you have.. your example, if someone offered to buy your house at twice what YOU think it is worth, then you will sell. However, that person might think it is worth what he is paying. The 'taking advantage of a fool' is if he has no idea of what it is worth and you TELL him it is worth twice as much... also, there is a 'reasonableness' that you have to do.. if it is a few dollars or so here or there, it takes too much time to fix.. but saying that you love someone to get married and leave your country when you do not.... BIG..

I guess we got way off subject.. and in the end the woman might stay with the guy and they have a reasonable good marriage...

Posted by: inlove

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
Flashing Eyes,
Interesting, but in my opinion not completely relevent.. capitalism (mostly) is based on a system that is a win - win. Yes, you try to maximize your win. The difference is if you are doing so by lying about what you have.. your example, if someone offered to buy your house at twice what YOU think it is worth, then you will sell. However, that person might think it is worth what he is paying. The 'taking advantage of a fool' is if he has no idea of what it is worth and you TELL him it is worth twice as much...

Flashing Eyes is making a very reasonable point. I have never thought of it much, but we do engage in transactions like these on a daily basis, and never think bad of ourselves for doing it.. Texas, what if a person that is buying your house has no idea of its real worth? And you don't disclose the information unless directly asked.. What if he/she never asks you directly? Will you feel bad for not disclosing a real worth of the house, and just taking the fool's money?

Quote:

also, there is a 'reasonableness' that you have to do.. if it is a few dollars or so here or there, it takes too much time to fix.. but saying that you love someone to get married and leave your country when you do not.... BIG..

What if it's not a few dollars here or there, but a couple of hundred thousands?

Quote:

I guess we got way off subject.. and in the end the woman might stay with the guy and they have a reasonable good marriage...

I think we are right on the subject, since the topic was started as a discussion of somebody's "bad morals" and lack of ethics.

Posted by: AkMike

UPDATE;

Tanya had them over for dinner last night and pass this on to me. They have boughten wedding rings and are wearing them already. But they seem very happy together.
Go figure. I just hope it'll last longer than the honeymoon.

Posted by: Jill

All I can say is good grief.

Posted by: Leprechaun

Im more worried about the dog.

i dont have no idea how this story will end.
but dont arranged marraiges work as well as fail?