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A few thoughts I wanted to share...

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Posted by: inlove

Hi everybody,

First of all, I 'm delighted to see that there is a place on the Internet where stereotypes about Russians and all things Russian are being reevaluated. Even after living in the US for 7 years I still come accross these stereotypes way to often, and frankly, I'm tired of them a bit.
I want to share with you a few thoughts about Russian/American dating/marriage scene and problems as I see it.

I'm a Russian woman in her early 30th. I'm not married at the present time, although I was married twice before, last time to the American man. As you might have guessed, it did not work out. No, I've never been a MOB, I came to this country on my own and met my future husband here. We have dated for almost an year before getting married, and stayed married for 3 years before I threw in the towel.
There were many reasons why it did not work, none of them has to do with me being Russian and him being American per say. We were not made for each other, lets leave it at that.. After my divorce I have dated a few American men. I am now in a very happy and fulfilling relationship with one of them.

So, here is some advice you never asked for, but hope it helps if you are contemplating of starting a R/A relationship:

1. If you are looking for a Russian woman because you cannot create a successful relationship with an American woman, forget it. I've heard a talk about "materialistic, egoistic, selfcentered American b... , who cannot appreciate a real man" too many times. Stop it! It is not attractive, and it makes you look like a loser no American woman would want to be with.. Guess what? Russian women don't want to be with losers either, even though they might be too polite or too shy to say this in your face.. Besides, all this degrading talk about American women is not true, and your Russian bride will figure it out very quickly, once in the States.

2. Don't believe what marriage agiencies are trying to sell you. Russian woman is not some kind of overly domisticated creature whose life dream has been to serve you dinner every night. Most Russian women are well educated and love to work outside the house.. They don't mind hiring a housekeeper if they can afford it.

3. If you are looking to meet a RW over the Internet, don't use marriage agencies. Use regular dating sites, ICQ, boards, other means, but not agencies..

4.Age, per say, does not matter. What matters is how young you are inside and how well you take care of your outside. It is not hard to be attracted to somebody much older than you if he is energetic, open minded and good looking. It is hard to be attracted to somebody even your age, if he is fat, lazy and a slob. So.. if you are 50 something and are looking for a 25-30 year old RW, you better be no older that 35 inside and look barely 40 if you want this to work.. And a good 40, I must say..

5. Don't want to generalize, but RW are usually smart and well educated. Chances are, your future Russian bride has at least a college degree, or maybe even a graduate one. If you have not read a book since graduating from high school, you are in trouble..

6. It is naive to think that she will stay the same after a few years of being in the States. Besides the fact that everybody is changing as years go by, moving into another country is a truely life changing experience. If it is her "russianness" that attracted you, be prepared for a big surprise couple years down the road.

6. Russian women are caring. They will take care of you, even if they are not in love with you, just because they are married to you. If a husband walks around in socks with holes, it means that the wife is a slob. You cannot determine if she is in love with you just on the basis of caring...

7. RW can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover, but only if you deserve her. Guess what? An American woman can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover if oyu deserve her. As any other nationality.. This is something to think about, don't you agree?


Posted by: searcher

Welcome to the forum!

What you wrote makes sense to me. Thanks sharing.




Posted by: inlove

Thanks, searcher.
Hope it helps somebody to understand "russian mysterious soul" a little better.


Posted by: andreas

Very well said


Posted by: Ade

Hi, I totally agree with the things said here. I met someone by accident whilst on my recent holiday, and will be returning to meet her again a.s.a.p. But I can't say there was anything exotic or overly 'Russian' that appealed - she was just a woman who I grew to like for herself.


Posted by: rams

I would like your opinion, but I also want to give you mine. I disagree that there isn't a significant difference between a russian woman and american women (in general).

I am not a loser, I am a chemical engineer, 53, attractive, excellent shape (no high blood pressure, slim, exercise) I had plenty of american ladies interested in me, some much younger than me, but I was not interested in them... why...
I blame it mostly on the feminist movement in america, and american films, TV. Most american women don't want family responsiblities, the say they do, but in reality they aren't really interested in raising children and living , what I call a normal family life.
I found over the internet, that not only Russian women, but european women in general, have a much better attitude toward family. Most of the men that I have met that have married europeans are considerably more satisfied with their wives than american men.
The Russian lady I have met is not only younger and more beautiful than most of the american counterparts I've met, but she thinks like me. We understand each other better than any american relationship I have had! She loves her children and this shows in the way that they respond to her. She cares for her ageing mother in a way I have never seen an american woman do! This woman puts here family first, herself second. Maybe I just got lucky, but I don't think so, I have noticed that russian women are just more family oriented. They tend to think "family" not just "me".
To counter this I hear the way she talks about russian men, and yes, I think (again in general) most american men are more kind and tolerant than russian men.
I was talking to two ladies at work one day, and discussing my going to russia to meet my russian lady, they warned me against this. They both have dated men from mexico (one of them was mexican) and they swore they would never date a foreign man again, why ... because most latino men were very rude, demanding, and completely intolerant. They wanted only american men, because american men were easier to get along with.
These ladies knew the same thing that I knew - American men are the most tolerant men in the world, however, what they failed to notice is that american women are the most intolerant women in the world, and that's why I don't care to date american women (same reason they don't want to date foreign men). In my opinion, an american man, russian-european woman can be a match made in heaven. Though I understand they may not always turn out that way.
My chances of meeting a good woman is just considerably better if I only consider european women. I will never again waste my time looking for my partner in america. Sorry dear, but most american women just aren't worth the time or the trouble.


Posted by: Leprechaun

Yes, I really agree, very well said and many compliments to you for your excellent, no nonsense command of the English language.

I look forward to the day of "Holeless Socks" !!!!!

but i would advise people to forget from point 1
"If you are looking for a Russian woman because you cannot create a successful relationship with an American woman, forget it"

ah, you said "Forget it " for us!!!

Some people wont have the luck to even get the date with the AW, sometimes the guy is not the blame for an unsucessful relationship. Dont put that minorty off. They are not and dont look like losers.

Remember this is a Russian forum, not "The Beauty of the AW" forum, theres going to be a lot of guys here let down by AW and this is thier vent. Naturally at first they may generalize as they vent thier anger at being walked on but we tell them to generalise is wrong.

So if you cant get a succesful realtionship from inside the AW pale, go ahead, look elsewhere, you are not a loser. There may be an AW out there for you, you just missed her by seconds, so broaden your horizons if you need to find success.

=o)


Posted by: sidney

inlove, I would guess this forum has many that didn't have success finding love in their native country. Like you it also wasn't happening for me and I had a friend who had been to russia where he was happier with the choices. It only took one trip for me to see there was a difference and I was hooked. If there were no difference we would all be happily married to someone from our own country. There is risk involved with broadening your seach but I feel reward doesn't come without some degree of risk. I wish you the best on your seach.
Sidney


Posted by: rtking

Quote:
Originally posted by Leprechaun
I look forward to the day of "Holeless Socks" !!!!!


Noooooo! When the socks have holes, THAT's when they're "broken-in" and most comfortable!

I'm going to miss my socks with holes! (Seriously!) I like wearing them around the house on cold days...

Bob


Posted by: povlhp

I do not understand why not to use agencies ? Most of the russian women do not have Internet access, and do not know how to promote themself towards western men. So I see the agencies as something good. Sure they are in it for the money, but as long as you remember that, I don't see a problem.

My problem finding the right woman locally has something to do with me not expecting to find her at bars, and I need to find her somewhere. Thos I met on danish Internet dating sites requires a chapter by themself.

when I was younger, most of the good wie material got married to the smarter guy, so there is less left for us that wanted to study a bit longer. And many of the women left has been alone for so long, that they really do not want to commit to a relationship.

I have had a few relationships, but not a single one where I thought of marriage. There has been good candidates for marriage in my life, when I was not ready for that - So I missed the chances


Posted by: rams

It is not just the way AW treat their husbands, it is also the way they treat their children (child services gave me custody of mine after they interviewed my children). And, yes, there are some good wives and mothers in America, but they all are either married or have steady boyfriends. Just as good men in Russia are snatched up very quickly, good women in America are snatched up very quickly.

It all comes down to your choices. I remember when I was in engineering at my university, it was nearly impossible to find a good date around the predominately male engineering school. Fat, ugly girls had an "attitude" simply because so many guys, so few girls. I got smart, I would drive to a nursing school about 80 miles away. It took me about 1 1/2 hours to get there and the same to come back, but..... you bet it was worth the drive. I had no problem finding very attractive ladies, without an attitude, because at the nursing school girls outnumbered guys two to one.

There are good and bad men and women in both russia and america, but... There are more good women to good men in russia, and more good men to good women in america. I rode on a train as everyone was getting off work, coming from Moscow to Voskresensk my last stay in russia. I saw first hand the number of drunken men. While we have the same in america, we don't have as many. My choices are better in russia, and a russian woman's choices are better here. However, both my lady and me agree, society all over the world is going to "trash".


Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:
Originally posted by rtking
I'm going to miss my socks with holes! (Seriously!) I like wearing them around the house on cold days...

And just what do you consider a "cold day"? 60 F?


Posted by: inlove

I'm glad to see that my post steered up a discussion. I kind of hoped it would.
First of all, in no way I think of american man who like to date women from other coutries as losers. Are you kidding me? I'm crazy in love with one! i was mostly refering to the talk that these men often like to give in justifying their dating preferences. Even if you are that disappointed with AW, don't voice your aversion in a way that can potentially backfire. Find another way to make your Russian lady feel special. I suggest avoiding topic of American women all together, or talking about them with respect. I will tell you why.. when she comes to this country, she will start to learn about things first hand, starts meet people and make friends with them. Most of her girlfriends eventually will be American. She will see that there are plenty of beautiful, smart, caring American women around, who are not afraid to voice their concerns and demands when they feel they have to. You might despise feminism for complications it brought into the once masculine world, but the fact is.. the women in this country were able to make their voices heard, and in doing so secured a place for themselves as equals in the society.. Not in Russia.. Even now women in Russia, as smart and beautiful as they are, are treated as second hand citizens most of the time, they are getting beat up by their spouses with no place to escape, they raise children on their own, their career opportunities are limited, sexual harrassment is extremely common with nobody paying attention to it, unless you've been actually raped. Russian women learnt to survive, while preserving their femininity, and maybe it is why they are so appealing to westerners...

So, that's the place your Russian lady is coming from.. Is it any wonder she will see anybody who can get her out of there as a prince on a white horse? I don't recommend taking advantage of this situation, first of all because it is not a good thing to do, and second, because it is going to change when she realizes her worth. And all of a sudden your Russian wife becomes as demanding as any American would be.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by povlhp
I do not understand why not to use agencies ? Most of the russian women do not have Internet access, and do not know how to promote themself towards western men. So I see the agencies as something good. Sure they are in it for the money, but as long as you remember that, I don't see a problem.


The problem with agencies as I see it is the fact that the whole process reminds me of shopping. It's like you are going shopping for a wife.. I don't want to say anything negative about women who sign up with the agency, but.. they must be very desperate to get married..or just get out of the country.. You, really, never know.. Besides, agencies often misrepresent them in order to sell the pitch.. If you are looking for a true love, I think you best bet would be to avoid agencies.. But it is only my opinion..


Posted by: rams

inlove, I understand and agree with a lot of what you say. But, I don't want my lady to change, and I am worried about this. It would be the equivalent of me coming to russia and drinking with the guys, because "that's what Russians do".
I know my Yuliya likes me because I am not like the typical russian man. I like her because she is not like the typical american women. We both love children very much and want to put family first, self second. We both have struggled to raise our children by ourselves. We understand each other, we find ourselves very often saying the same things at the same time, as if we were reading each other's mind. This is very strange considering we are a world apart, but I don't want this to change.


Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove
If you are looking for a true love, I think you best bet would be to avoid agencies.. But it is only my opinion..

I'm curious. Where should a woman look, or what should she do, to find true love? If the situation is as bad as you describe:

Quote:
Not in Russia.. Even now women in Russia, as smart and beautiful as they are, are treated as second hand citizens most of the time, they are getting beat up by their spouses with no place to escape, they raise children on their own, their career opportunities are limited, sexual harrassment is extremely common with nobody paying attention to it, unless you've been actually raped.


Where does a woman look to meet a man? On the street? In nightclubs? True, there are quite a number of disreputable agencies out there, but even so, it's the women who have the upper hand in the situation. They can choose whom to correspond with, who they will see, and whom to marry if they wish.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by rams
inlove, I understand and agree with a lot of what you say. But, I don't want my lady to change, and I am worried about this. It would be the equivalent of me coming to russia and drinking with the guys, because "that's what Russians do".
I know my Yuliya likes me because I am not like the typical russian man. I like her because she is not like the typical american women. We both love children very much and want to put family first, self second. We both have struggled to raise our children by ourselves. We understand each other, we find ourselves very often saying the same things at the same time, as if we were reading each other's mind. This is very strange considering we are a world apart, but I don't want this to change.


Rams,
First of all, congratulations on such a wonderful relationship. It seems that you have a lot in common and understand each other very well. I hope you guys will live long and happy life together.
I'm not sure what you are afraid of.. Do you think her sweet nature will turn sour overnight, once she is here? That you two will lose all the understanding and respect for each other, because she will start making friends with american women? Or because she finds out if her husband treats her bad she can call the police and file abuse charges? What exactly you are afraid of?
Change is part of our lives. Nothing is static, everything is changing and evolving. Once something stop changing, it is dead. It includes people, their lives, their relationships. I think it was Woody Allen who said: "relationships are like sharks, they have to keep moving in order to live".. The change happens even if we live at the same place all our lives, never moving outside of our hometown. When somebody is moving to another country, another environment, it is even more so.. We have to adjust and make some changes in our outlook on life, otherwise we will not be able to survive in the new environment. It does not mean that our core values have to change, or a major part of our personalities. She is Russian, she grew up in Russia, lived all her life there, Russia is an innane part of her. She will never be a "typical american woman", whoever this creature is, but she will have the same social environment that the "typical american woman" has, with the same options available to her.. If you are afraid of this fact, than maybe you should not bring her here..


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by ConnerVT
Where does a woman look to meet a man? On the street? In nightclubs? True, there are quite a number of disreputable agencies out there, but even so, it's the women who have the upper hand in the situation. They can choose whom to correspond with, who they will see, and whom to marry if they wish.


As a person who is not familiar first hand with the whole agency structure and situation, I can only voice my personal opinion on this subject. I might be old fashioned in this sense, but I just don't like the process.. There were times when you could actually bring a Mail Order Bride from Asia, just by chosing one in a catalog. I think agencies still have not recovered from the bad rep.. Using one would make me feel like a comodity, but maybe it is just my personal issue...


Posted by: ConnerVT

I appreciate your feelings on this, but this still doesn't offer a viable alternative. Given that RW usually are not offered the opportunity to travel to the West to meet a potential husband, how do you think they should do so?


Posted by: rams

To grow together is one thing, to "change your stripes" so to speak, change your basic thinking, is different from growth.
The majority of change in family life over the past 50 years has been negative, not positive. I am not talking about technology, I am talking about morals. Both myself and my X came from a conservative southern christian background. This changed when I moved to Southern California, many women in the neighborhood treated their children like dirt, cursing at them, leaving them alone at home. My X fell into the wrong crowd and spent her days sleeping with the married man down the street, leaving her children at home.
I can tell you don't like the way you were treated in Russia, and you are pleased with your new found freedom, but that is probably one of the few things that has improved for families over the decades. How you will use this freedom is now the question. Will you use it to support your family as part of a team, or constantly desert them for "greener pastures" because you become bored and want constant change.
I blame the media much for this " I must live a fantastic exciting life" attitude, many people today are not happy with having a good home, good husband, wife, children. Everybody thinks they must be something fantastically great and wonderful. The world doesn't need more movie stars, celebrities, kings and queens, lottery winners .... it needs good mothers and fathers, good husbands and wives.
I don't believe a good relationship is like a shark, keep moving or have you help mate, your life partner attack you...... nah ! That's completely backwards. I want someone I can depend on as an equal partner, not my competition or adversary. And while I do want to do some things that are exciting, ...( we explored caves, haunted hotels, Las Vegas lights, and wilderness camping), the majority of the workday for a mother-wife, husband-father, is not exciting, but tedious work. Where would my family be if I wanted to run off and enjoy myself every day instead of going to work!?


Posted by: Jerico

I think using an agency to meet woman is a great tool for us looking for a potential mate!
Not just Russian bride agencys but many American dating sites also.
I know lots of people who went on dates with people thru yahoo personals , including myself at one time
Without these sites available I would be severly limited to who I could date.
I am one of those guys who simply could not find a woman here in the USA to my liking (so to speak).
I did not want to settle for whats around.

When your looking for a woman , you are in a way shopping for a woman. Whats wrong with shopping for the best product you can find
So I see no problem looking at a Russian website with many possible prospects to write to.
The internet is the next step to dating people
Only I chose to write to a Russian Woman instead of an American woman.
Now I am married to a great woman who I would never have met without the help of these agencys .
So in conclusion , I think they are a great tool for meeting woman from around the world.
Not just Russian woman either.
Just another guys opinion is all.
Jerry


Posted by: rams

Jerry,

I agree, the internet allows us to meet people from all walks of life. Your happy ending story gives me hope. One of my worries about my lady when I met her was she seemed too good to be true! I would have never met such a lady looking around town! Probably not even in America!
I am a chemical engineer, if I just looked locally for a job, my job prospects would be slim, worldwide, however there are a lot of good jobs. Why do less for a lifetime mate! I found my gal through an agency, but we only used this for our first contact.
But , later again the agency help me to get an invitation to russia and to drive Yuliya to the airport and back. Best money I ever spent!


As for inlove, no way I am going to not bring that wonderful gal home to me.

Have youever thought that this constant change your involved in has something to do with your short term marriages? People don't always change in the same direction, I would think a little more consistancy would help the stability of a marriage.

Your English and knowledge of american films is excellent. You came here from Russia on your own? How?






r


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
So, here is some advice you never asked for, but hope it helps if you are contemplating of starting a R/A relationship:

1. If you are looking for a Russian woman because you cannot create a successful relationship with an American woman, forget it. I've heard a talk about "materialistic, egoistic, selfcentered American b... , who cannot appreciate a real man" too many times. Stop it! It is not attractive, and it makes you look like a loser no American woman would want to be with.. Guess what? Russian women don't want to be with losers either, even though they might be too polite or too shy to say this in your face.. Besides, all this degrading talk about American women is not true, and your Russian bride will figure it out very quickly, once in the States.

2. Don't believe what marriage agiencies are trying to sell you. Russian woman is not some kind of overly domisticated creature whose life dream has been to serve you dinner every night. Most Russian women are well educated and love to work outside the house.. They don't mind hiring a housekeeper if they can afford it.

3. If you are looking to meet a RW over the Internet, don't use marriage agencies. Use regular dating sites, ICQ, boards, other means, but not agencies..

4.Age, per say, does not matter. What matters is how young you are inside and how well you take care of your outside. It is not hard to be attracted to somebody much older than you if he is energetic, open minded and good looking. It is hard to be attracted to somebody even your age, if he is fat, lazy and a slob. So.. if you are 50 something and are looking for a 25-30 year old RW, you better be no older that 35 inside and look barely 40 if you want this to work.. And a good 40, I must say..

5. Don't want to generalize, but RW are usually smart and well educated. Chances are, your future Russian bride has at least a college degree, or maybe even a graduate one. If you have not read a book since graduating from high school, you are in trouble..

6. It is naive to think that she will stay the same after a few years of being in the States. Besides the fact that everybody is changing as years go by, moving into another country is a truely life changing experience. If it is her "russianness" that attracted you, be prepared for a big surprise couple years down the road.

6. Russian women are caring. They will take care of you, even if they are not in love with you, just because they are married to you. If a husband walks around in socks with holes, it means that the wife is a slob. You cannot determine if she is in love with you just on the basis of caring...

7. RW can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover, but only if you deserve her. Guess what? An American woman can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover if oyu deserve her. As any other nationality.. This is something to think about, don't you agree?


Very good advice, inlove


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
There are more good women to good men in russia, and more good men to good women in america.


You are kidding, right?


Posted by: rams

No, I am not kidding and the success of the guys here proves that!

I guess it would depend on the vaugeness of what you would determine as "good" ( I am sure American women have their viewpoint) , but the men here, and on other sites, again and again, rave about their spouses from Russia, and how Russian women make better wives.

You don't see too many women rushing to foreign countries to marry, why?... because they prefer American men (and yes, I realize you are the exception).

I understand that when I comment that Russian women (in general) make better wives, this hits a soft spot with American women ( inlove's viewpoints, and knowledge strike me as more of an American, pretending to be a Russian, rather than a Russian, sorry inlove, but I have that gut feeling). It is not my intention to run down American women, but yes, myself and nearly every guy on this site have noticed " Russian woman, make better wives".

Don't believe it .... Let's take a vote... see who wins!

Most guys here have had experience with both American women and Russian women. Ask them their preference. This will prove that not only am I not kidding, neither are they. We didn't travel to the other side of the world for a joke!


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by rams
To grow together is one thing, to "change your stripes" so to speak, change your basic thinking, is different from growth.


I've never said that somebody will necessarily change their "basic thinking". What I said is that anybody who moves into another country will experience some changes, it is inevitable. There are two components that make up a human personality - one is innane, qualities we were born with, qualities that developed since our early childhood; the another depends on the environment we live in. Our environment has a huge power to influence our personality.. Changes in environment results in some shifts in views, perceptions, etc., if a person desides to accept a new environment. If a new environment is drastically conflicting with the inner believes (or basic thinking, if you wish), a person usually rejects this new situation and makes a huge effort to restore a status qua, in other words he/she wants to go back to the old environment.. There are plenty of books on human psychology where all these proccesses are discribed in a great detail.. I'm not going to discuss it anymore..

Quote:
The majority of change in family life over the past 50 years has been negative, not positive. I am not talking about technology, I am talking about morals. Both myself and my X came from a conservative southern christian background. This changed when I moved to Southern California, many women in the neighborhood treated their children like dirt, cursing at them, leaving them alone at home. My X fell into the wrong crowd and spent her days sleeping with the married man down the street, leaving her children at home.


Every previous generation complains about morals of the next one.. There is nothing new in this world.. The morals have been going down the drain for a few thousand years now.
The more I read your posts, the more I come to a conclusiion that we live in different Americas. I've spent a few years in Southern California. Not a single time I've witnessed a child abuse.. Are you sure you are not talking about Russia? This kind of behavior is quite common over there. You can go down the street and see an angry woman spanking a toddler. BTW, over there it is not even considered to be a child abuse.

Quote:
I can tell you don't like the way you were treated in Russia, and you are pleased with your new found freedom, but that is probably one of the few things that has improved for families over the decades.


As long as my personal experiences in Russia go, I did pretty well.. I think.. Looking back from where I am now, I realize that what I thought as a normal way to live, is not actually that normal.. We just did not know any better..

Quote:
I blame the media much for this " I must live a fantastic exciting life" attitude, many people today are not happy with having a good home, good husband, wife, children. Everybody thinks they must be something fantastically great and wonderful. The world doesn't need more movie stars, celebrities, kings and queens, lottery winners .... it needs good mothers and fathers, good husbands and wives.


I agree.. We need more good husbands. I also think the world needs a new movie hunk. I'm getting tired from watching Jude Law and Johny Depp in every picture.

Quote:
I don't believe a good relationship is like a shark, keep moving or have you help mate, your life partner attack you...... nah ! That's completely backwards. I want someone I can depend on as an equal partner, not my competition or adversary.


Apparently, Woody Allen does not fly with this audience. What I ment was that good relationship is never static. It has to continue to grow.. Once a relationship goes stagnant, people start taking each other for granted and love dies.. It is like a fire that constatly need wood in order to burn. No wood-no fire.


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by rams
Have youever thought that this constant change your involved in has something to do with your short term marriages? People don't always change in the same direction, I would think a little more consistancy would help the stability of a marriage.[QUOTE]

As a proper Russian woman of my generation, even though you might not believe it , I have never had a live-in boyfriend. I had only two serious long-term relationships in my life and both were with my husbands.. It is OK, the third time will be a charm.

[QUOTE]Your English and knowledge of american films is excellent. You came here from Russia on your own? How?


If you read my first post, you will see that I've been here for 7 years. This is enough time for a monkey to learn the language. Besides, I hold two Master's degrees, one of them in liguistics and another in media studies from an American university.. That's how I got into this country.


Posted by: rams

Quote:
I'm a Russian woman in her early 30th.
I was married twice before
stayed married for 3 years before I threw in the towel.



Quote:
Every previous generation complains about morals of the next one.. There is nothing new in this world.. The morals have been going down the drain for a few thousand years now.

This is not really true, if you look at divorce rates, they have risen drastically just over the last few decades. About the same time mass media began to tell people how to think! While I don't believe in eliminating mass media, too many people take its hype too seriously.
Too many people try to design their lives by what they see in the movies.

I don't consider myself a guru on marriage, but my first and only marriage lasted 21 years. Four months after my wife left me, she wanted back.

I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I am trying to defend a value system. We, as parents, simply can't raise children with multiple three year marriages. And I do believe that one of the major causes of divorce is that people expect too much from a marriage, and give too little.

I do understand love should continue in a marriage to make it last, but marriage .... at least to me is more about commitment. It is a pact to see things through not only in good times, but also the bad.

It is nice that your spouse be fun, exciting, a great lover, etc. , but what is most important is that they are dependable. A friend that you can rely on through thick and thin. This is not only for you and your spouse, but it is necessary for the children involved.

Quote: its like a fire that constantly needs wood. No wood- no fire.

The initial romance is like a fire, lasting love is like a candle in the dark... it's enough to light your way, let you see where your going.

It is nearly impossible to hold the excitment of the initial romance. Yet, this is what many people consider love.
Thus, when the physical attraction dies down, so does the marriage.


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
You don't see too many women rushing to foreign countries to marry, why?... because they prefer American men (and yes, I realize you are the exception).


Personally, I actually know more more American women married to foreign men, than I know American men married to foreign women. That's not to say that it is statistically more common, but I am certainly no "exception"--far from it. However, I also don't believe that there are more good foreign men than there are good American men. I simply don't see what nationality has to do with whether or not someone is "good" or "bad."

Quote:
the success of the guys here proves that!


Yes, there are certainly American men who are very happily married to Russian women. On the other hand, far more American men are married to American women and are equally happy. If you believe hte statistics that Jutman recently posted (and I have no way of verifying their accuracy), the divorce rate of AM/AW is about 51%. The divorce rate of AM/RW is about 50%. The difference, therefore, is negligible in terms of happy, lasting unions.

Quote:
It is not my intention to run down American women, but yes, myself and nearly every guy on this site have noticed " Russian woman, make better wives".


There are quite a few men who don't believe that--at least not as categorically. And it is a fairly meaningless statement as the definition of a "good wife" varies among different people (as does the definition of a "good husband"). Different people look for different qualities in a partner. So the statement that one woman is inherently a "better wife" than another doesn't really make much sense.

Quote:
Most guys here have had experience with both American women and Russian women. Ask them their preference. This will prove that not only am I not kidding, neither are they. We didn't travel to the other side of the world for a joke!


I have nothing against American men marrying Russian women. If they meet someone they are compatible with, more power to them. But I simply don't agree in the mythology of some huge difference between AW and RW (or AM and RM) and, having lived in the FSU for the last 10 years or so, I know plenty of both. And the differences that do exist (largely differences of habit, rather than values) will only get smaller over time as the RW adapts to American life.


Posted by: rams

Quote:
The more I read your posts, the more I come to a conclusiion that we live in different Americas. I've spent a few years in Southern California. Not a single time I've witnessed a child abuse.

We do live in two different worlds. I not talking about physical abuse of a child, I am talking about using foul language, or verbally running them down, when they do something as simple as ask a question. I see this constantly here.

And I don't consider a simple spanking as child abuse either, though too much can be.
I do believe one should try other ways of correcting a child, but there are times when a child will simply refuse to do what you say. What do you do? Beg, plead?

I was spanked, my parents weren't abusive, they were better parents than 99% of the parents today. (According to the media, nearly all of our parents were abusive, and yes, some people actually believe this hype).

The problem children are facing today is not an occasional spanking. It is the total lack of time and commitment by the parents. I see a huge amount of this in Southern California.

-------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Or because she finds out if her husband treats her bad she can call the police and file abuse charges? What exactly you are afraid of?

While were on the subject of abuse...

My fiancee' divorced her husband because he hit her .... once.

The stereotype of Russian women putting up with just about anything certainly doesn't fit my gal. She doesn't harp on it , but I can tell she demands respect. But, at the same time she gives respect also.

If you'll excuse the expression, I distinctly get the idea my lady would definitely NOT put up with any crap!


Posted by: rams

Quote:
divorce rate of AM/RW is about 50%.

I have read it is about 20%, but I don't have the back up either.

Quote:
And the differences that do exist (largely differences of habit, rather than values) will only get smaller over time as the RW adapts to American life.


I agree with the second part - differences will diminish once RW come to America.

But, I saw first hand Russian women value famliy more than the average American woman. Though I admit I only saw a small part of Russia.
One lie thats been widely accepted (and media pushed) is that stereotypes do not exist, and everybody is the same.
While not every individual fits a given stereotype, certain groups of people do. A lot of streotypes are at least partly based on some reality. Different upbringing, different lifestyles, a different value system.. gives people different values, they act differently.
I don't want to be so negative on American women as I want to be positive towards Russian women, and while I don't think all Russian women are great and wonderful and all AW are b....@%... I do see a noticable difference. Other men here see it too. They just don't want to argue with you ladies on it, and I am rapidly learning why! I think it is time for me to surrender.

I do appreciate your comments, and responses and I hope I haven't offended anyone. It is difficult to talk about values and marriages, and other "touchy" subjects without upsetting some people. And I fully realize most people don't think like I do. This is one of the reasons I had to search the world for my mate. I was looking for someone with "old fashioned" values and that's extremely difficult to find in Southern Cal., I found it was more common in Europe.


Posted by: Leprechaun

Quote:
Originally posted by rams
I was looking for someone with "old fashioned" values and that's extremely difficult to find in Southern Cal., I found it was more common in Europe.


You would be lucky to find that in Ireland also,
maybe an Irish woman in her 60's.

And yes stereotypes do exist more than we are allowed to admit to.

Nice Points


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
I have read it is about 20%, but I don't have the back up either.


Yes, I too had initially thought it was somewhere around 20%. However, it turned out that the 20% figure applies to ALL international marriages, not specifically marriages to Russians. The figure for marriages to Russians, it seems, is actually quite a bit higher.

Quote:
Other men here see it too. They just don't want to argue with you ladies on it, and I am rapidly learning why! I think it is time for me to surrender.


I cetainly don't mind people disagreeing with me. I like diversity of opinions and experience. But I do stand by my opinion based on my experience. And I will mention that I know several AM (even on this forum) whose opinions on this "vast difference" between AW and RW have evolved as a result of spending more time in Russia and getting to know the people better. And I will also point out that the AM I know who live and work in Russia/Ukraine and who have spent a considerable amount of time there are MUCH less inclined to claim that there is any great difference.


Posted by: Vyesna

I always find it amazing that Americans who have spent all of about two months all told or less in Russia, who don't speak Russian and only know the Russians they've been on dates on and maybe one or two family members of said dates are convinced that they know so much more about Russia, Russian family life, Russian women, Russian men and Russian society than those Americans who have lived there for years, speak Russian and know a wide variety of Russian people.

Otherwise, we've been over this a million times and quite frankly it's getting to be extremely boring.

And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but this forum was really supposed to be to discuss Russia generally, not to be a forum for American men seeking Russian women. There are plenty of forums like that and if you notice, neither Jill nor I nor any other AW post on them (and RW only sporadically). We post here because it's supposed to a broader interest forum.


Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Some things are different with Ukrainian women - they are it seems more familly orientated but I think it is because the economy is so bad that familly members help each other even to the extent of lending cash - WITHOUT INTEREST - my own familly would not dream of giving me money unless it was paid back with interest - my gf who is back in the Ukraine could not understand the mentality of familly who charge interest and It was illuminating to say the least when I realised that in her familly money was given without an agreement to pay back with interest.

rattle




Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by rattlesnake6979
Some things are different with Ukrainian women - they are it seems more familly orientated but I think it is because the economy is so bad that familly members help each other even to the extent of lending cash - WITHOUT INTEREST - my own familly would not dream of giving me money unless it was paid back with interest - my gf who is back in the Ukraine could not understand the mentality of familly who charge interest and It was illuminating to say the least when I realised that in her familly money was given without an agreement to pay back with interest.

rattle


This is totally an individual family thing. I borrowed $1200 from my family and didn't pay it back for three years and they never asked for interest.


Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Vyesna ,I am glad that you have not had to agree interest rates ( ) this really tests familly relations to the limit especially when business's are now giving 0% interest loans for people to buy cars in my country. If I ever have a familly of my own I will make it a rule that no interest is charged - I dont want to continie this absurd tradition.

rattle


Posted by: FlashingEyes

rattlesnake,

If these no interest loans are so readily available, why don't you go out and get one and use the money to pay your family back? I loaned my brother $15,000 a few years back, to help him buy a house. I didn't ask for interest and probably won't see my money again until he sells the house. His house is appreciating considerably so he'll probably see a nice return on that $15,000 - but I won't. Had I invested this money with other investments I made over the past several years, I would easily have made over $1000/yr. return, which is only about a 5%-6% return. I think there's a strong argument for charging interest to family members, and maybe next time my brother wants a loan, I'll ask for interest.


Posted by: rams

I can't see the interest being worth the trouble you would cause in your family. When I loan money to my sister I usually never get it back. She is always in financial trouble, and I call it a loan just so it doesn't sound like a handout (that's usually what it ends up being). Not everyone in the family has the same capability of earning. I'm her younger brother, she did a lot for me when I was little, it is just pay back time.


Posted by: lisa

Hey!
This is an interesting thread! (no pun intented)
For a fact, not just my opinion, the entire world would be a better place without debt and interest payments; specifically, debt-based money. The profligate consumerism and disintegration of moral values and the social fabric, frequently mentioned on this forum, can be directly tied to the systemic need in our economy for incessant expansion mandated like some Mosaic Law by a centralized and fractional reserve monetary system. It is based on a presumption of no limits, whether environmental (resources, especially energy, pollution sinks) or social (markets/appetite, moral values/cultural constraints). The entire planet is viewed as some sort of coiled bundle of energy to be unleashed, the value generated extracted and the control of it concentrated in as few hands as possible. The U.S. has been the most successful practitioner of this value system and it shows, not only for better but more so for worse: we have gained the world and lost our souls. We certainly see it in our foreign policy, be it death-squads in Nicaragua or the occupation of Iraq, but we also see it in our domestic lives in the form of social atomization, including the disintegration/non-existence of extended family structures, the obsession with money and wealth accumulation, the excessive materialism, excessive competition (leaving little room or energy for genuine conviviality or bonding), shallow spirituality, our insipid emotionality (in the collective sense). And I haven't even mentioned our ugly, inane, fat-inducing automobile-dependent suburbs where most of the population lives.
It seems to me, upon reading many posts regarding "family values" and "cultural values" that there is a common ground for liberals and conservatives. I am speaking now to Americans, although others are certainly welcome to throw in their two-cents.
Whatever our differences regarding homosexuality, religion, or gender roles, there seems to be in common a discenchantment (or downright dispair) with the cultural and spiritual state of our society, and it seems to revolve around materialism, selfishness, and lack of emotional depth. In this light it's easy to see why someone would look overseas (or south of the border) for a mate. No other society has been so persistant in its attack on extended families, traditions, or the notion of rootedness and sense of place. Social disruption (in controlled amounts, of course) and self-absorbtion are held up a social goods, as they promote consumption and competition, which "fuel the economy". Tenderness and emotionality are disparaged as weaknesses, as they tend to mitigate competition and distract from productivity. This disregard of the "feminine aspect" has, in my opinion, been absorbed by many western women as a survival tactic in a male-dominated world. I believe that this is what traditionalist western males are reacting to. Having created a heartless mechanical monster, the triumphant "masculine" ( in terms of psychological aspect) has eliminated the warm and caring "feminine", and now it's difficult to find a soft, warm, caring, family oriented female in Fortress America.


Posted by: FlashingEyes

lisa

Come back to earth. Your basic premise is that interest payments are "based on a presumption of no limits" but in fact the opposite is true - money has value because of a presumption of scarcity. Interest payments are based on the presumption that scarce money could be applied to some other pursuit and earn an investment return.

Then you go on a lot of tangents, making equally invalid assumptions...


Rams

If we take your argument and extend it, reducio ad absurdem, we get to exactly the argument lisa is making, that there should be no interest charged in any situation, ever, that we should cripple businesses and abandon the productive approach to life and instead hold onto some liberal dream that moving AWAY from progress is the best solution to our massively increasing planet-wide population in a world of limited resources, that government spending will solve all, and, oh yea, that Social Security doesn't need to be fixed because it will last forever.


This anti-business attitude was examined in some depth by Rand in Atlas Shrugged. Maybe you both should give it a read, though in lisa's case, maybe seek a good deprogramming first - no sense planting good seed in bad soil.


Posted by: Vyesna

Interest is basically the rent you pay to use money. There's nothing inherently wrong in it. Whether it should be "charged" between family members is up to the family members to decide based on the situation at hand-- my personal view is that if it's a together family investment (such as a loan from your uncle for your start up company), paying it is appropriate. If it's an emergency loan to take care of basic living needs, then it's less appropriate.


Posted by: rams

I don't have any arguement for whatever works in your family and I tend to agree with Vyesna - if it is an investment, rather than a need then interest seems more appropriate.
Money for the down payment on a house is probably both a need and an investment, but if it works for you...OK.

I was just thinking what feelings might arise when one family member asks another for interest. I am certainly not against profit making, but I would feel a bit strange making a profit from a family member, or very close friend, for that matter.

I don't know if I agree (or even understand) everything lisa is saying, but I don't believe 30 year mortgages, or the Federal Reserve's debt based money system is really benifiting society. I believe that whole system is set up to benefit the major banks.


Posted by: FlashingEyes

...and since you didn't live through the Great Depression and clearly don't understand the economics behind why it happened, and why the Fed prevents its recurrance, then it would be appropriate for you to admit you know very little about the situation, but i think a bit presumptuous to draw a conclusion such as that the system "is set up to benefit the major banks"???

If anything, the system protects smaller banks more than major banks, but it is set up primarily to protect small investors. You could say wealthy investors have more money in banks but if you recall how the federal insurance is set up, the limits on the insurance generally mean that smaller investors are 100% covered but wealthy investors can be at risk for some of their funds.


Posted by: rams

Quote:
the limits on the insurance generally mean that smaller investors are 100% covered but wealthy investors can be at risk for some of their funds.
--------------------------------------
Before you try to roast someone, you should look up your information. The Federal Reserve system and The Federal Depository Insurance system are two different systems!?

The Federal Reserve was institutited 16 years before the 29 crash! Look it up!

While you are at it, look at the American inflation rates, there were some ups and downs before the Federal Reserve was instituted, but there is a distinct inflection point the Year the Federal Reserve was institued that shows a constant and steady rise of inflation since 1913 (When the Federal Reserve was instituted.)

Anyone stating it was instituted to prevent another Great Depression, or stock market crash, has their data a little backwards. Though this is the propaganda that is often repeated for the reason the Federal Reserve was established.

Also, many people don't understand The Fedreal Reserve is not a Federal, but private organization. (Its members are chosen from the 12 major banks, with the chairman almost always coming from the Bank Of New York.


Posted by: rams

[B]Quote:
the limits on the insurance generally mean that smaller investors are 100% covered but wealthy investors can be at risk for some of their funds.
--------------------------------------

You are right about one thing, I did not live through the great depression.


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally posted by rattlesnake6979
Vyesna ,I am glad that you have not had to agree interest rates ( ) this really tests familly relations to the limit especially when business's are now giving 0% interest loans for people to buy cars in my country. If I ever have a familly of my own I will make it a rule that no interest is charged - I dont want to continie this absurd tradition.

rattle



The problem with this, Rattle, is that you are taking away money from the one who lent it to you!! Yes, you can get a low to zero interest, but it has strings (believe me, I work at a bank)... you miss one payment and it can be 20% on the balance.. the interest is for a short time... again, they have you!!

My Mom lends to most of her 6 kids and I insist that she charges interest... because she could put that money in a GNMA fund and earn between 4 and 5%... so, over the years, you are 'taking' her money if you do not pay interest...

If you want to GIVE this interest to your family, then by all means do so. it is your choice.


Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:
Originally posted by rams
I can't see the interest being worth the trouble you would cause in your family. When I loan money to my sister I usually never get it back. She is always in financial trouble, and I call it a loan just so it doesn't sound like a handout (that's usually what it ends up being). Not everyone in the family has the same capability of earning. I'm her younger brother, she did a lot for me when I was little, it is just pay back time.



Again, personal choice.. I give money two of my sisters to help two nieces pay for their college... so does my mom who also LOANS them money... it is a gift given by the heart!! But, we want to make it clear there is no expectation of payback as our family would TRY and pay it back if we did not call it a gift!!

But, as with all family matters, to each their own.


Posted by: FlashingEyes

rams,

I noticed you recently posted on another board about what a great catch you are... hopefully your self-evaluation was based on better logic than your evaluation of the Fed:

1) "The Federal Reserve system and The Federal Depository Insurance system are two different systems!?"

If you could have done even the simplist of research into this question, probably most of your other horrendous blunders in logic could have been avoided. Question: WHY ARE THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM and FDIC in fact part of ONE COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO PREVENTING ANOTHER GREAT DEPRESSION? Answer: (if you had done even 15 minutes of research...) THE BANKING ACT OF 1935 established the FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM and made the FDIC a permanent independent corporation and PROVIDED PERMANENT DEPOSIT INSURANCE (although the FDIC was established on a temporary basis two years earlier in the Banking Act of 1933, the FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM and the PERMANENT DEPOSIT INSURANCE did not exist prior to the Banking Act of 1935, and the FDIC was made permanent by the Banking Act of 1935).

2) "The Federal Reserve was institutited 16 years before the 29 crash! Look it up!"

No. I was referring to the Fed - the modern Federal Reserve System, not the prior systems. The Federal Reserve System was established by the BANKING ACT OF 1935. Although it's easy for the poorly educated to be confused by the existance of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the board that this act implemented was significantly different from the post Banking Act of 1935 system.

Even the names are different. Prior to the enactment of the Banking Act of 1935, approved Aug. 23, 1935, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System was known as the Federal Reserve Board. Prior to the enactment of the Banking Act of 1935, the chairman and vice chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System were known as the governor and vice governor of the Federal Reserve Board, respectively.

Thus the Federal Reserve SYSTEM did not exist prior to 1935.

3) "While you are at it, look at the American inflation rates, there were some ups and downs before the Federal Reserve was instituted, but there is a distinct inflection point the Year the Federal Reserve was institued that shows a constant and steady rise of inflation since 1913 (When the Federal Reserve was instituted.)"

Not only are you wrong, in that during the Great Depression the U.S. experienced severe deflation, but your implication that the on-average mild inflation that the U.S. has seen since the establishment of the modern Federal Reserve System, tied to the Banking Act of 1935, and resultant from the consistently strong economic growth in the U.S. economy is somehow bad, only shows how ignorant you are of current economic theory. Since the alternative to inflation is deflation, which you apparently believe is good, perhaps it would be helpful if you read any book on economic theory from a respected source written in the past decade - here is a taste of what you would discover:
http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/deflator.html

4) "Anyone stating it was instituted to prevent another Great Depression, or stock market crash, has their data a little backwards. Though this is the propaganda that is often repeated for the reason the Federal Reserve was established."

It is a fact that the modern Federal Reserve System (now commonly known as the fed) did not exist prior to the Banking Act of 1935, and that this Act was a direct response to preventing the events of the preceeding Great Depression and the Stock Market crash.

5) "Also, many people don't understand The Fedreal Reserve is not a Federal, but private organization. (Its members are chosen from the 12 major banks, with the chairman almost always coming from the Bank Of New York."

A direct quotation from www.federalreserve.gov (gee this would have taken a competent person, what, 5 minutes of research?):

<
As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized much like private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.>>

http://www.federalreserve.gov/gener.../faq/faqfrs.htm


The appointment language is also not as you describe. By the way, if you read the language of the current Federal Reserve Act, you will see that the BANKING ACT OF 1935 is mentioned prominently in the very language of the amended Act, signifying some of the important differences between the POST-1935 FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM and the PRE-1935 FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD:

<<"Upon the expiration of the term of any appointive member of the Federal Reserve Board in office on the date of enactment of the Banking Act of 1935, the President shall fix the term of the successor to such member at not to exceed fourteen years, as designated by the President at the time of nomination, but in such manner as to provide for the expiration of the term of not more than one member in any two-year period, and thereafter each member shall hold office for a term of fourteen years from the expiration of the term of his predecessor, unless sooner removed for cause by the President. Of the persons thus appointed, one shall be designated by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to serve as Chairman of the Board for a term of four years, and one shall be designated by the President, by and with the consent of the Senate, to serve as Vice Chairman of the Board for a term of four years. The chairman of the Board, subject to its supervision, shall be its active executive officer. Each member of the Board shall within fifteen days after notice of appointment make and subscribe to the oath of office. Upon the expiration of their terms of office, members of the Board shall continue to serve until their successors are appointed and have qualified. Any person appointed as a member of the Board after the date of enactment of the Banking Act of 1935 shall not be eligible for reappointment as such member after he shall have served a full term of fourteen years.">>
http://www.federalreserve.gov/gener...ract/sect10.htm


Perhaps the below (again from the Fed FAQs on their website - 5 minutes of research for a competent person) explains how you became confused by the number 12 in the appointment process, but you will note that NONE of these appointees come from the 12 major private banks in the United States. The "Bank of New York" http://www.bankofny.com/ is a private Bank that is NOT represented on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. The "Federal Reserve Bank of New York" is a public Bank under the authority of the United States, reporting to the Board of Governors, and, ultimately, Congress.

<>
http://www.federalreserve.gov/gener.../faq/faqfrs.htm


Again, I can only conclude that you might want to once again examine whether or not you are such a great catch for a Russian woman, since Russian women tend to be very intelligent and well-educated, and appreciate partners who at a minimum at least are able to admit to what they do NOT know, rather than spouting inaccuracies.


Posted by: sidney

FlashingEyes you seem to have issues.
Quote:
If anything, the system protects smaller banks more than major banks, but it is set up primarily to protect small investors. You could say wealthy investors have more money in banks but if you recall how the federal insurance is set up, the limits on the insurance generally mean that smaller investors are 100% covered but wealthy investors can be at risk for some of their funds.

Not true, wealty investors will have different accounts at different banks with each insured 100% if it is within the 1000,000 dollar limit. So it protects both wealth and small investors the same.
Sid


Posted by: FlashingEyes

sidney,

You have recently made comments to me such as, "FlashingEyes you seem to have issues" (03-04-2005 12:17 PM) and "you sound like someone off their medication" (02-22-2005 05:55 AM).

My original language was accurate. Small investors (those with funds below the protected limits) don't have any worries, but wealthy investors have to be conscientious to be moving their funds into different, seperate accounts, constantly reevaluating them for any funds at risk. Thus my conclusion they "can be at risk for some of their funds" is accurate, and the protection is not the same, since wealthy investors have to do more work and constant supervision to maintain the same level of protection.

Honestly the reading comprehension level required to understand my words is not higher than would be expected of a grade school student. Even a 5th grader could understand the difference between "can be at risk" and "will always be at risk". Even a grade schooler younger than 5th grade could understand why my statement, "can be at risk", is TRUE, despite your conclusion that it is not. So what does that make your reading comprehension level, sidney? Perhaps you need to go back and sue your grade school for not educating you?

Maybe is it you who has issues? I notice this is apparently an extension from previous times you've been wrong and I've demonstrated it. The last time before this you were backing a guy who was secretly running a "calender modeling business" that he hoped to attrack Russian women to. So not only are your reading comprehension skills pitiful, but your instincts and choices of how you pick friends and people to support suck, too. Basically, sidney, right now I respect that you have an ability to reason, yes, but you've demonstrated your ability is not as high as an average grade school student, and you have an opinion, yes, but your opinion has been historically proven to be about as valuable as mud. So while I have respect that these things exist I also have historical perspective on how valuable and capable you are, and pardon me if I choose to conclude you now deserve this post.

Flash


Posted by: rams

My (rams) Quotes.

2) "The Federal Reserve was institutited 16 years before the 29 crash! Look it up!"

steady rise of inflation since 1913 (When the Federal Reserve was instituted.)"

-------------------------------------------

Your (Flashing eyes) Quote:

The Federal Reserve System was established by the BANKING ACT OF 1935. Although it's easy for the poorly educated to be confused

------------------------------------------------

from www.federalreserve.gov

If you go to the site quoted above ( by you)

Then click on: FAQ => then, Federal Reserve System => then, When was the Federal Reserve System created?

You (and anyone else who does this) will see the answer = Dec. 23, 1913.

------------------------------------------------

As far as the Federal Reserve System "appearing" as neither government nor
private, I understand that is the way it is set up. But its members come from private banks!
It at first appears the President and elected officials have control - 7 members, as opposed to 5 (elected by private). However, the private members elect their members every term. The presidents only change their members every 14 years (or about two members per term.)

Through simple mathmatics you can see that it would take four presidents, in four consecutive terms, to out vote the private banking officials for the government to take control of the Board.

Considering they (the Board members) control the economy by controling the money supply, that is highly unlikely. They can make a president's economic situation look good or bad.

I will admit that my stating that the Federal Reserve was a private organization is not entirely correct, this is poor wording and my error. But it is controlled by private banking members who then control the money supply.

As far as the date it was instituted, You are wrong - it was 1913.
----------------------------------------------
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) - that insures depositors.
And the Federal Reserve System (Fed) - that controls the money supply.

HAVE TWO DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS!!!

It was YOU who got the two of them mixed up, claiming the Federal Reserve System (Fed) helps depositor's by insuring them.

Look at your first response to my comment about the Federal Reserve System.


Posted by: rams

I don't think FlashingEyes is really here for discussion or even to win an argument.

She appears to simply try to "put down" the men on this site. She obviously has a great deal of anger coming from somewhere? And while I understand some people being a little upset on certain topics, this gal stays upset at any guy she corresponds with!? Yeah, I agree, she acts as if she is off her medication!


Posted by: sidney

“I don't think FlashingEyes is really here for discussion or even to win an argument.

She appears to simply try to "put down" the men on this site.”
She takes issue with anyone that questions or add to her posts. It is because of women like her that many have taken the steps to look elsewhere. This overbearing self-righteous attitude should take her far. Equal rights are no longer good enough. She must show her superiority on this forum, at work and in life. Can’t you just feel the love.
FlashingEyes, I did have a 5th grade level of reading comprehension but that was 40 years ago.
FlashingEyes writes: “Maybe is it you who has issues? I notice this is apparently an extension from previous times you've been wrong and I've demonstrated it.” Time and again you’ve been proven wrong and yet have to admit to it.
“The last time before this you were backing a guy who was secretly running a "calender modeling business" that he hoped to attrack Russian women to. So not only are your reading comprehension skills pitiful, but your instincts and choices of how you pick friends and people to support suck, too. Basically, sidney, right now I respect that you have an ability to reason, yes, but you've demonstrated your ability is not as high as an average grade school student, and you have an opinion, yes, but your opinion has been historically proven to be about as valuable as mud.”
Here is another example of your pushing until people stop arguing with you and just quit this forum. You have added nothing to this forum and only seek strife. Grow up. Since when was it a crime to run a calendar modeling business? If we were to use your litmus test for people to join this forum you’d be the only one here. It least if it was up to you. Perhaps you should take the persons advise you drove from this board, (asudt). He that is without sin among you, let him cast a stone at her. What were some of your other truths about asudt? A janitor, who cares if he were! He still has as much right to post as we do. Time and again he had to defend your false accusations. You demanded that his posts be deleted. Maybe someone should look at the negative posts you’ve been writing to fuel a fire here.

FlashingEyes writes another one of her posts:
I guess you could also say...

...that inside every man is the urge to be a pirate, thief, swindler - to through manipulation of circumstances acquire what he would not deserve in a fair, free market.

...that more often than not this villian is also the loathsome man, ugly, relationship-challenged, and/or much, much older than the women he desires.

Of course I guess most people here wouldn't say that, preferring to think of ourselves as mature heros, putting everything in the best light.



FlashingEyes writes: “I wonder if a person like this would really be such a great catch for an intelligent, educated Russian woman???”
My wife feel I am and that is all that matters. How many people can say the same about you FlashingEyes??? We all would like to hear your love story. Mat. 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Another rant from Flashing eyes:
Obviously since you are a proven liar, who contradicts yourself regularly, I'm not going to take your word for anything. Prove it or shut your trap.

I don't make deals with people like you. I expose people like you.
This sounds so professional. I’ll bet you make lots of friends with this sweet talk. I don’t know what your problem is but I’m certain you’re reaping the rewards in life.
Sid


Posted by: Vyesna

I'm pretty sure Flashing Eyes is a guy. Not that it matters, I guess.


Posted by: sidney

Vyesna, that was my first guess but the longer this person posts it seems more female. For some reason ASUDT as well as RAMS thought female. The profile doesn't give much info either. Come on FlashingEyes give us a hint. We know whatever the gender who wears the pants.
Sid


Posted by: andreas

You took the words from my mouth Vyesna, Somehow I had just that feeling.

By the way my previous post has some toung in cheek and an attempt at mild humour, I know I am not well known on the forum and it could be taken as arrogant. They are only some of my thoughts and not a strong oppinion. I am now looking at another agency where the girls, pictures and thier expectations seem more realistic, I will live and learn

andreas


Posted by: FlashingEyes

Well if it were true it would go once again to show what a couple of bright lights Rams and sidney are.

Rams, regarding your response on the Federal Reserve topic - either you are being consciously obtuse or you are actually incapable of understanding these concepts. You continue to make claims that are so distorted and incorrect that I have to laugh at your ignorance, and this is after I have already provided you the correct data in the prior post!

sidney, you seek me out in different discussions and snipe at me with your ugly, silly little comments - I wonder why? - obviously because I am so interesting to you in your boring, ugly, silly little existance. So now you have accomplished rising from your obscurity to where I at least recognize you as an ugly, silly person. Congratulations, now at least one person you obviously regard as important (me) has wasted time swatting at you. But that is the extent of your achievement, because like a fly as soon as you stop buzzing I will completely forget you and move on happily. Buzz on fly - for it is obviously the extent of what you are capable of achieving in this world! In that way I pity you and will try to keep laughing at you like I am now rather than letting something that obviously is incapable of greater things get me upset in the future!


Posted by: Jim_FL

will you guys please knock it off and get back on topic


Posted by: rams

Sorry to have strayed from the topic, but I don't think that was the cause of the trouble. FlashingEyes seems to want to take a personal shot at me.... for whatever reason.

She (and I am all but certain this is a she, regardless of what she/he/it says), is also attacking sidney on a personal basis. This is quite obvious and if you follow the post, sidney did not start this, nor I.

Whomever it is, it is quite obvious they despise conservative males. While I can understand not everyone likes conservative men, this person has outright hatred for them. Follow the rhetoric and you can see this.

I'll try to refrain from battling in the future for the sake of the others on this post (the ladies and the gentlemen), but it is difficult when you are attacked for no reason other than the person dislikes who you are, and what you say.


Posted by: BradIL

Well... inlove if you are looking for someone to toss you bouquets... I won't be one of them! I deeply disagree with what you have written. Apparently your exposure to the finer points of relationships between American men & women is quite limited.

Quote:
Originally posted by inlove: I've heard a talk about "materialistic, egoistic, selfcentered American b... , who cannot appreciate a real man" too many times. Stop it! It is not attractive, and it makes you look like a loser no American woman would want to be with.


Nooo that is precisely the problem. Too many American women (and a good portion of men) are very self-centered, believe they are "entitled" to that which does not belong to them, and have license to be abusive, rude and inconsiderate of others in order to prove their "empowerment". They are the losers. If you find it degrading... too bad. A change in behavior will cause that kind of talk to end.

Quote:
inlove also writes: Guess what? Russian women don't want to be with losers either, even though they might be too polite or too shy to say this in your face.


And American men don't want to be with losers, either. Oh... and you would have us believe Russian women are too mousy... or incapable... of expressing themselves? A trip through the threads here would indicate that its 'all evidence to the contrary'.

Quote:
inlove also writes: Don't believe what marriage agiencies are trying to sell you. Russian woman is not some kind of overly domisticated creature whose life dream has been to serve you dinner every night. Most Russian women are well educated and love to work outside the house.. They don't mind hiring a housekeeper if they can afford it.


Who wouldn't?! You're missing the point that many marriage agencies are making.

Quote:
inlove also writes: If you are looking to meet a RW over the Internet, don't use marriage agencies. Use regular dating sites, ICQ, boards, other means, but not agencies..


Its my experience that agencies (most seem to be introduction/dating agencies) could be the surest way to avoid scammers. They at least meet the women they list. But if you read through the scam threads here, it is the unmoderated sites that seem to be the incubator of most scammers.

Quote:
inlove also writes: Age, per say, does not matter. What matters is how young you are inside and how well you take care of your outside. It is not hard to be attracted to somebody much older than you if he is energetic, open minded and good looking. It is hard to be attracted to somebody even your age, if he is fat, lazy and a slob. So.. if you are 50 something and are looking for a 25-30 year old RW, you better be no older that 35 inside and look barely 40 if you want this to work.. And a good 40, I must say..


Judge a book by its cover, that's the extent of it, right? Just curious... when you hit 40 and you don't look as good as you do now... how would you react if the guy that prompts you to post heart-popping eyes decides to dump you?

Quote:
inlove also writse: Don't want to generalize, but RW are usually smart and well educated. Chances are, your future Russian bride has at least a college degree, or maybe even a graduate one. If you have not read a book since graduating from high school, you are in trouble..


Why is it so difficult then to easily transfer your class credits/accomplishments from your college degree or graduate degree into an American university, and receive a new degree. Such as a medical degree from the FSU, for example?


Quote:
inlove also writes the following in 2 paragraphs: It is naive to think that she will stay the same after a few years of being in the States. Besides the fact that everybody is changing as years go by, moving into another country is a truely life changing experience. If it is her "russianness" that attracted you, be prepared for a big surprise couple years down the road. -AND- Russian women are caring. They will take care of you, even if they are not in love with you, just because they are married to you. If a husband walks around in socks with holes, it means that the wife is a slob. You cannot determine if she is in love with you just on the basis of caring...


You don't make any sense! In one paragraph you try to convince me she will lose her "russianness", and in a few sentences she can't restrain her "russianness" because I have holes in my socks? Do you read what you write? This can not be seen as a serious post.

Oh... and to top it off... with all this "russianness" she's supposed to lose... she won't lose all of it. She'll care, but caring is not a virtue of love with a russian. Then--- what is???

Quote:
inlove also writes: RW can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover, but only if you deserve her. Guess what? An American woman can be a wonderful wife, friend and lover if you deserve her. As any other nationality.. This is something to think about, don't you agree?


Who says you "deserve" an American husband? A Russian man can be a wonderful husband, friend and lover according to the AW in this forum. What makes you so special and more deserving than anyone else? Its apparent to me you calculate your relationships to determine what you can "get" out of them, but what do you offer? What do you bring to the table? You don't really expect any relationship you form on this basis to last, do you? This is something to think about, don't you agree?


Posted by: BradIL

Quote:
Originally posted by FlashingEyes: 5) "Also, many people don't understand The Fedreal Reserve is not a Federal, but private organization. (Its members are chosen from the 12 major banks, with the chairman almost always coming from the Bank Of New York."


Flash that has been the case historically, with the exception of Alan Greenspan. Prior to his appointment & confirmation as chairman he was with Shearson-Lehman, yes? He may have been on the Board of Governors at the New York Fed, but he was with a brokerage for some interval. He also served on the President's Council of Economic Advisers prior to his Fed duties.

Quote:
FlashingEyes also writes: A direct quotation from www.federalreserve.gov (gee this would have taken a competent person, what, 5 minutes of research?): <
As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress


Correct, but it is a SURPLUS generating institution, that is, it buys US Treasury securities at a steep discount, can serve as an underwriter/market maker for treasury securities, and operates the discount window to make loans to member banks, or to recall securities to exert influence on the nature of the money supply in the US. It also trades in foreign currencies. Its oversight by Congress is a statutory "minimum", Congress can change the operation/charter of the Fed at any time it wishes.

Incidentally, the FDIC used to be under administrative control of the Comptroller of the Currency in the US Department of Treasury, viz., the executive branch. But since the reforms of the Savings & Loan crisis I am not sure who has responsibilities for what. The Fed and the Comptroller were given broader mandates on the audit and quality control of banks that were FDIC members (which includes many other banking institutions since 1992). I believe that even community credit unions are under their direction now (they weren't prior to the S & L reforms).


Posted by: FlashingEyes

BradIl,

You seem to have a coherent, educated understanding of how the Fed works, and the intertwining with other efforts related to the Banking Act of 1935. Congratulations. I think a RW would be happier with someone like you - someone who has a clue - than with other examples here who do not know what they are talking about, yet still insist on making assertive statements that are laughably wrong!!!


Posted by: inlove

Quote:
Originally posted by BradIL
Nooo that is precisely the problem. Too many American women (and a good portion of men) are very self-centered, believe they are "entitled" to that which does not belong to them, and have license to be abusive, rude and inconsiderate of others in order to prove their "empowerment". They are the losers. If you find it degrading... too bad. A change in behavior will cause that kind of talk to end.


There are enough sefl-centered people everywhere, not just in the U.S. The western mentality is more individualist, I will agree on that, while eastern is more community oriented. Russians, being stuck in between, combine the two. Being a part of the community in Russian sense is to completely share believes and attitudes of this community, while not having (or voicing) any on your own. Being a part of the community meant physical survival. Communists played on this russian mentality very well.. For 70+ years people were afraid of expressing their individuality publicly in fear of being prosecuted for them. Those, who were not afraid, were prosecuted.. or were forced to leave the country. Here, in the states you identify yourself as a member of a particular group if this group represents your own true believes, attitudes or qualities.. In Russia you were a part of the group because you did not have any other choice. Which did not mean that some members of community were not more self-centered in their private lives than others.
Russians now have much more freedom than they ever did, and sometimes they don't know what to do with it.. For many centuries they lived with a sense that an individual does not matter, only group has any value. Now, when an individual opinion became important on its own, Russians have trouble with figuring out what to do with all this freedom...
Anyway, you will be surprised how many russian men and women are rude, abusive and inconsiderate of other people's feelings, no matter community living. In Russia it is normal to be rude to strangers, for example. I think it is also consequences of not being able to express yourself where it matters. "At least in my private life I can do what I want and the hell with others" kind of mentality..

Quote:
And American men don't want to be with losers, either. Oh... and you would have us believe Russian women are too mousy... or incapable... of expressing themselves? A trip through the threads here would indicate that its 'all evidence to the contrary'.


Have you ever been on a date you could not wait to end, but were too polite to just get up and leave another party? No, modern Russian women are not incapable of expressing themselves, especially when it is done anonymously on the Internet. She might not say it in your face out of fear to be perceived as a "rude, inconsidered" person, or maybe she will believe you when you are talking sh..t about American women, because she never met one, but believe me it will change once she figures out the reality..

Quote:
Who wouldn't?! You're missing the point that many marriage agencies are making.


Marriage agencies are trying to sell you the utopia that does not exist. Good luck with your search for "traditional russian wife". You will need it.

Quote:
Its my experience that agencies (most seem to be introduction/dating agencies) could be the surest way to avoid scammers. They at least meet the women they list. But if you read through the scam threads here, it is the unmoderated sites that seem to be the incubator of most scammers.


They misrepresent most women they list on their sites. Ever heard of "false advertising"? Do they also check credentials of western men employing their services? I doubt they do.. It might be convenient to you, but what about the other party?.. Russian boards are filled with stories of disappointed russian wifes stuck in unhappy marriages, because they had no idea what they are buying into. Huge amounts of financial debt, crazy ex-wifes, families that treat them like "trophey wifes", drug addiction, etc..Besides, all these poor girls look like pieces of meat on display.. I really wish they realized how awful this whole approach is..They don't know any better, unfortunately.

Quote:
Judge a book by its cover, that's the extent of it, right? Just curious... when you hit 40 and you don't look as good as you do now... how would you react if the guy that prompts you to post heart-popping eyes decides to dump you?


Everybody judges first by the cover. Don't you? When you are browsing through the agency site, do you send letters to everybody, no discrimination, or are you choosing ads from the women that are physically appealing to you? If you are trying to meet women that are 20+ years your junior, very physically attractive, you better be in a shape that they find attractive too.. And not just physical shape, but mental, intellectual, cultural, etc.. Be on top of things that interest her, be energetic enough to expore the different things with her.. Mutual physical attraction is a part of every successful relationship, although , obviously not everything. I'm even surprised I have to state this banality..

As far as my personal relationship goes.. He is much older than me (surprise, surprise!) and I find him extremely attractive precisely because of all the things I mention above.. I don't even feel the age difference. My American girlfriends, some of them in their twenties, find him very attractive too.. It is universal. Obviously he has other wonderful qualities to match his physical attractiveness..I plan to take a good care of myself and look my best at 40, by the way..

Quote:
Why is it so difficult then to easily transfer your class credits/accomplishments from your college degree or graduate degree into an American university, and receive a new degree. Such as a medical degree from the FSU, for example?


It is not difficult at all.. There are evaluation agencies that translate russian credits into the GPA system. You cannot "receive" a new degree, it is still going to be the "old" degree from Russian educational institution, but translated into equivalent of american degree. Sometimes this degree is enough to get you a very good job in the chosen field, sometimes not.. It depends on the field.. Medical professional from FSU, or any other country for this matter, have to pass the america profeciency exam to be able to practice. It is a dificult multilevel test, but it is possible to pass it and then practice in the US. Many people do it every day..

Quote:
You don't make any sense! In one paragraph you try to convince me she will lose her "russianness", and in a few sentences she can't restrain her "russianness" because I have holes in my socks? Do you read what you write? This can not be seen as a serious post.
Oh... and to top it off... with all this "russianness" she's supposed to lose... she won't lose all of it. She'll care, but caring is not a virtue of love with a russian. Then--- what is???


She will lose her "russianness" in a sense that she will become much more sophisticated in evaluating her own value as a woman and as a person. Her outlook on life might not change completely, but will be definitely broaden by all the choices available to her.. She will have more information, information she is deprived of while in Russia.. If you were attracted to her naivete, if you counting on her differences from western women, those things are going to slowly disappear.. It does not mean she will become uncaring. First of all, what I'm trying to say for some time now is that western women are not all uncaring, most of them very caring, actually.. They just learnt to demand the same in return..

For a russian woman pure caring about husband's socks does not equal love. She considers socks with holes to be a bad reflection on her own image. Therefor, she will make sure you are fed, your socks are taken care of and you have a clean shirt to wear in the morning. But it does necessarily mean she is in love with you. It just means she cares about the environment she lives in and you are a part of this environment. She might be in love with you, or might be not, you cannot just determine on the basis of pure caring.. It might change as well, by the way, if you don't hold on to your part of the bargain. I mean, if you are not a caring husband, she might decide she does not need you in her environment.

Quote:
Who says you "deserve" an American husband? A Russian man can be a wonderful husband, friend and lover according to the AW in this forum. What makes you so special and more deserving than anyone else? Its apparent to me you calculate your relationships to determine what you can "get" out of them, but what do you offer? What do you bring to the table? You don't really expect any relationship you form on this basis to last, do you? This is something to think about, don't you agree?


You might have noticed, I never said that russian men are bad husbands.. I don't think so, actually. i think they make fine husbands, as any