Your opinion on moving to Russia - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

Your opinion on moving to Russia
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Texas Proud

I want to see if I can get a discussion going... please indicate if you are from Russia or not as your opinion might be totally different

I read a lot about how great it is in Russian from various people and some of the ads talk about them living in a great city..... so, my financial mind started to work...

If it is so cheap to live in Russian, why not move to Russia and live with HER? If I read properly, an apartment is 1500 to 3000 rubles a month... that is $50 to $100. If you had about $50,000 to $100,000 in the bank, you could live in Russia and never have to work again!!

So, why has this not happened?

Posted by: Jill

I'm American, but I've lived in the FSU (including Russia) off and on for the past 10 years or so. And as much as I personally enjoy living here, I can say that it is certainly not for everybody.

First of all, it is not really that cheap--not if you're talking about a large city, such as Moscow, St. Pete, or even Kiev.

Decent work for Westerners is not that easy to find these days--and a lot of people like to work, not just for the money, but to stay active and to meet people. So this complicates matters, unless you are already retired and prefer the slower pace of life. And you really do have enough money in the bank to cover your living expenses.

Second, life in the FSU is harder/less convenient than in the West. I have NO heat in my apartment. Ever. (And, yes, there's several inches of snow on the ground right now). Until I installed a water tank a few months ago, I only had running water about 4 hours a day. And I live in the capital of Armenia--the situation is much worse in small towns and villages. And what $50/month rent? I pay about $500/month (and in a city like Moscow you can expect to pay quite a bit more).

And then you have the fascist visa regime

Also, if you want to live a fairly well-adjusted life in the FSU, you really do need to speak Russian (or other local language)--and that takes a lot of time and effort that some people aren't willing/able to put in.

So as I said, I personally like living in this part of the world--life here is really an adventure and (most) people are just great. But I can certainly understand why some people might not be into it.

Posted by: rainer_berlin

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
If it is so cheap to live in Russian, why not move to Russia and live with HER? If I read properly, an apartment is 1500 to 3000 rubles a month... that is $50 to $100. If you had about $50,000 to $100,000 in the bank, you could live in Russia and never have to work again!!

Simple answer: Russia is extremely expensive, if you are looking for a living-standard comparable to western Europe or USA.

A western-style renovated flat in Moscow is at least as expensive as in Manhattan.
If you want to live in a smaller (cheaper) city, you will not find adaequate living-conditions.

The view out of your window will look like this:

You will walk to your flat through a staircase like this:

And your bathroom will look like:

If you have a lot of money in the bank... everything is easier (especially in russia) But if you try to live from $50.000-$100.000 for the rest of your life, without any job and additional income... you have to choice "typical russian standard"

I did not even mention language problems, visa problems, the incredible situation of the public health-system, social and political situation, safety.....

Posted by: andrei

Hi TP I'm from Siberia.

Here you go:

On one hand (A) you have major cities like Moscow and St. Petersburgh.

On the other hand (B) you have all other cities like my hometown Omsk.

(Don't mind rural areas, it's lethal even for me to live there).

A - pro's: fast life, lots of opportunities for a nice job, lots of people of the same social layer who know English, nice apartments, thousands of sightseeings, nightclubs, sportclubs and whatever else you can think of.

A - con's: traffic jams, racism, pollution, dirt instead of snow in wintertime, overcrowdedness everywhere, and a very expensive life.

B- pro's: everything's cheap, the air is fresher, people are nicer, no racism, no traffic jams, no crowds

B - con's: cold winters, nowhere to work, nowhere to walk, bad roads, lack of nightclubs, restaurants, sportclubs, sightseeings, and most of the people live a harsh life, much poorer than you, and dont know a word in English.

If I were you I'd stay where I belong. The main problems are Russian language, lack of comfort.

Posted by: Pin Boy

andrei,
the pros and cons list a good way to give a quick good/bad overview and comparison..thanks

questions:

1) what do you mean about living in a rural area would be lethal even for you? i take that as a joke from your sense of humor....am i correct?

2) it sounds pretty rugged in Omsk...what keeps you there? you have the dental skills and the english fluency...do you stay because of family? friends? Omsk is home and no matter where home may be, people tend to stay close by?

hope you'll shed some light on that topic.

pin boy

Posted by: Vyesna

If you could have an income of $2000 a month or more, plus aside from that buy a nice apartment or house (there are more separate houses being built now), it's plausible, but I think only for those that are genuinely interested in living Russian-- ie, the language, the culture, the whole package. If you're not interested in learning the language (which, by the way, is not that big a deal to learn given enough time), getting into the culture, learning how to deal with situations over there as Russians would, etc. and basically I think becoming quasi Russian, then there's no point because you'll only be miserable eventually. I think some kind of occupation-- be it charity work or real work is also something that one would need for the long term.

Personally, I could live in Petersburg or Moscow and be happy if I found a job that paid me enough with the lifestyle balance. Unfortunately, most jobs for lawyers pay well enough but won't give me the lifestyle I want in a long term job (big firm hours, even in Moscow), especially since I never wanted to become a law firm partner, so I decided not to pursue the option (though I was thinking last summer of possibly looking for a job in Moscow).

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by Jill
Second, life in the FSU is harder/less convenient than in the West. I have NO heat in my apartment. Ever. (And, yes, there's several inches of snow on the ground right now). Until I installed a water tank a few months ago, I only had running water about 4 hours a day. And I live in the capital of Armenia--the situation is much worse in small towns and villages. And what $50/month rent? I pay about $500/month (and in a city like Moscow you can expect to pay quite a bit more).

Geez. We paid $150 for a studio in Petersburg proper near a metro station in 1998. That's some inflation. If I were to move there I would be sure I could buy a place outright cash.

Posted by: chaika

Boy, what a tempting question! I am a real Russophile ( I read this board as a man happily married to an American woman, no prospects of a Russian bride in sight!). No idea where it came from, but I took my first Russian class in high school, then thru college, grad school, taught college, freelance translator for a dozen years, 10 years sang in American men's chorus that sang SU songs plus Russian liturgical, toured SSSR. (For Jill: sang for and shook the Patriarch's hand in Yetchmadzin.) Been there three times, once spent a month in a flat in Moscow, 2003.

Truth to tell, I feel a strong pull (family commitments here prevent), but to actually move there forever, no pull at all.

I can see living in Moscow or Piter a year, hoping that during that time I have no major health issues. But the Russian health system is godawful to say the least. Aside from smoking and vodka, why does everybody there die young, you think?

Second, there's the politics, graft, and corruption. I believe in truth and honesty, and would be hard put to live there long term. Read the news on Moscowtimes.ru. Much easier to stay a year, maybe even 2, assuming good health, strong connection to US, and with Home back here in the US. I admire Jill for her ability to endure.

I have to admit that life there would be fairly easy for me (I think), as I have a pension and would eventually be getting soc. sec. too, so I wouldn't have to work. I speak fluent Russian, am familiar with the culture and society - and love them both. I have friends in Moscow and Saratov. Yet I am not tempted in a heartbeat to move there for good.

The last time I was there (in 2003) I bought this book, hang on asec while I get the title.... Twelve Stories of Russia: A Novel, I Guess. by A.J. Perry. See twelvestories.narod.ru. If you've ever been to M or SPb, you will appreciate his description of falling in a drunken stupor down the escalator to the metro. Or was it his imagination?

Regardless, it's a humorous book with really good descriptions, I think, of society, and could be useful to anyone on this board to give them an impression of what to expect. Humorous it may be, but it gets to the point. 400 pages, price was 186R two years ago, so not bad.

Anyone here read this book??

(PS: I have been grossed out by the spelling of posts on this board. I find Russians writing much better English on other boards that I frequent, study.ru and efl.ru. But to be honest, I have edited this post several times, and only now have I noticed that my original question in the preceding paragraph was:
Anyone hear read this book?
Duhhh. So I confess my errors. Nevertheless I would without a doubt prefer people writing "hear" on this board to run their text thru spell/grammar check before posting so I won't be distracted by nongrammaticalisms! TIA. And �� !!)

Posted by: Texas Proud

Thanks for the comments... I was hoping to get a good mix of opinions..

From my initial question... I had read an apartment cost 1,500 to 3,000 rubles a month... that is in the price range I listed with the exchange rate I found... maybe it is a bit off????

I lived in Manhatten... I doubt that the cost of a place in any city is even close to the cost in New York... I lived in a 750 sq. ft. apartment that was valued at $650,000 to $700,000.... lucky for me my company was paying!!!

Posted by: rainer_berlin

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
From my initial question... I had read an apartment cost 1,500 to 3,000 rubles a month...

In Russia you can't live just where you want to live, can't move easiliy from one city to another: you need "the right to rent an apartment" called "propiska".

If you have that "propiska" in a smaller city you may be able to rent a cheap, old, ugly and small public apartment for 1500-3000 rubles a month. That's exactly the range my mother-in-law has to pay in Penza (600.000 inhabitants). Approx 50 square-meters. A few days ago, it was cold and very windy in Penza, Babushka was wearing gloves and her winter-coat at the telephone, as the heating was not able to provide adaeqaute temperatures in the apartment.

If you want to have "western living standard" and an interesting place to live (maybe moscow) you will end up with some 1000$, not rubles montly rate.

for some examples look here:

http://www.evans.ru/

Posted by: Jill

This is from 2003--so keep in mind that prices have risen since then....

Quote:

Apartment prices in Moscow still high

Ivan Vorontsov
12 Aug 2003

As any Muscovite knows, apartments are only getting more expensive. And although there are a few indicators that prices may stabilize, the future is far from clear

The chances of finding cheap housing are disappearing fast in Moscow. Yes, there are still units such as a ground-floor apartment in a Khrushchev-era five-story block on the outskirts of town that you can get for about $30,000. But, mainly, you are talking $50,000-$80,000 to get a reasonably sized apartment anywhere near the city center.

Even though the supply of units is increasing, getting anything below $800 a sq. meter is becoming impossible, real-estate agents say.

Some residents are perplexed, saying developers are pushing rates up unfairly. But, many experts say, "welcome to the real world." Property in any capital city doesn�t come cheap.

The only two relatively cheap districts offering standardized panel housing in Moscow now are Lyublino, which developers say has the cheapest three-room apartments in its micro-district 39a, and Maryino. Standardized brick buildings are going up in the districts of Kurkino and Mitino, but they are not cheap. A sq. meter of space in Kurkino sells for an average of $815.

Posted by: Jill

Rentals in Moscow:

Quote:

Apartment Guide � How to Rent an Apartment in Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities in Russia.
Historically, there are four types of apartments in Russia:
1) Luxury (or elite) apartments (highest standard);
2) Western standard (also called "evroremont");
3) Above average standard (or "cosmetic renovation");
4) Standard "Soviet" apartments (or average);

The luxury apartments are renovated to the highest standard and the house where apartment is located is very high quality too, with well-developed infrastructure around and good ecology. Such apartments usually have all the facilities possible (from satellite TV and DVD players, to air-conditioning, jacuzzi and sauna). Also, there are normally a few bathrooms (something very uncommon for Russia) and a lot of space.Here are some sample photos of luxury apartments (the less expensive ones):

Luxury apartments can be very expensive and the rental prices start at about $3000 US per month, but for a real "elite" apartment the landlords will ask from $5000 per month. The short-term price will be about $200 - $500 per night and higher.

The western standard apartments are generally the same as you would expect a good apartment to be in Europe or the USA. Except that most apartments in Russia are located in apartment blocks, and not townhouses or semi-detached houses.
The amenities usually include some stadard facilities, such as a washing machine, microwave oven, satellite TV, VCR, stereo system, intercom at the entrance, etc. Sometimes if you are ready to pay a higher price you can get such extras as jacuzzi, sauna, air-conditioning, etc. Here are some sample photos of western standard apartments:

The "western standard" apartments are rented out in Moscow from $1500 - $2500 US per month for long-term periods and at about $90 - $200 US per day for short-term periods.
The prices in St. Petersburg are about the same, and in other Russian cities the price can be about 20-30% less.

The so-called "above average" standard, "cosmetic renovation" (or also "moderately-priced") apartments are the ones that used to be the "Soviet" type (see below), but were slightly renovated to be more comfortable for living. These apartments are usually slightly below Western Standard in terms of the quality of renovation (paint, walls, materials, etc.), but may often be quite well equipped (washing machine, microwave, satellite TV, etc.) Here are some sample photos of such apartments:

A normal long-term rental price for such apartments in Moscow would be about $900 - $1300 per month. If rented short-term, the price would be about $60-$80 per night.

The standard "Soviet" apartments are basically those that were built before 1990s and where interior hasn't changed much since 80s. That means that the apartment is liveable, but is nothing fancy and may look a bit worn. Such apartments are the cheapest ones and are rented out from $700 US / month (if located in the center of Moscow) or $40 - $50 US per night (for short-term rentals). Here are some sample photos of this type of apartments:

The rental prices in St. Petersburg for such apartments are usually about 5-10% less, and in the other Russian cities � 30-50% less.

The rental agency fees in Russia are usually 100% of 1-month payment (one-time fee), and usually no rental fee is charged for short-term rentals (although a deposit may be required to secure the reservation).

If you would like to share the rental price, we advise you to use the flatmate matching service - FlatMates.Ru - created by WayToRussia.Net team.

If you have any more questions about reservations, please, write to RentLine.Ru support team.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Let us not forget inflation, which seems to be hitting Russia hard these days. They has been some growth and renavations taking place in some cities, but not without a cost. For my wife's apartment, gas, electricity, and apartment complex fees have just doubled in the past 10 months.

Posted by: Eryk

>> please indicate if you are from >>Russia or not as your opinion might >>be totally different

I'm British but I live in Minsk, Belarus.

I pay $200 per month for a 2 room apartment (meaning it has a dedicated bedroom - many don't) in a pretty fancy area. I could easily have got a perfectly acceptable place for closer to $80 a month but I need broadband internet for my business and that currently only covers about 5% of the city so I pay a premium. That is $200 'all in' incidentally - all utility bills included.

I have heating that is so efficent that I have the balcony door open right now even though it is minus eight degrees outside. I have never experienced a water or electricity failure in over two years other than the hot water cutting off for a week in the summer for maintenance purposes (happens to everyone).

Health issues don't concern me much since there is a perfectly competent private clinic nearby which can deal with any minor aliment and my medical insurance covers emergency repatriation to the UK in the event of something more serious (I pay £145 a year for that).

In short, I do not experience the drawbacks most of the other posters allude to. I just live here quite pleasantly saving SHED LOADS of money compared to living in the UK

Eryk

PS: Renewing the visa 4 times a year is a bit of a pain and not cheap either (£420) - but I save WAY more than that in other areas.

Posted by: B_C

These days most landlords in Minsk are charging a lot more than $200 per month for a standard 2-room flat. They usually cover the cost of central heating/hot water/gas themselves, but most will expect you to pay for your own electricity/phone/internet/ satellite TV etc.

Nowhere is as cheap as it used to be, and this fact is especially true in Belarus, where inflation was 14.4% last year (2003: 25.4%, 2002: 34.8%, 2001: 46.1%, 2000: 107.5%)

In addition to visas, another cost which should be taken into consideration is the cost of registering your stay in Belarus (over $800 p.a.)

Overall, I agree with the previous post - it is cheaper than living in the UK, or indeed in my own country Ireland. But isn't everywhere cheaper than those two particular countries?!

Posted by: Eryk

>>These days most landlords in Minsk >>are charging a lot more than $200 >>per month for a standard 2-room

I can't claim to have done a comprehensive survey, but a few 'case studies' I'm personally aware of:

1) Natasha's Father rents out is flat here since he currently works in Russia. One room, 'Soviet' style decor, no washing machine all utility bills paid by tenant - $40 pcm.

2) Our friend Anna moved back here for a year from Budapest. She has a two room partial remont flat (nicer kitchen than ours), all utility bills paid by tenant - $80 pcm.

3) My case I already stated. $200 per month - all utility bills paid by landlord.

>>phone/internet/ satellite TV etc.

I wasn't counting those as 'utilities' ...I meant gas, water and electricity.

>> where inflation was 14.4% last year >>(2003: 25.4%, 2002: 34.8%, 2001: >>46.1%, 2000: 107.5%)

Not directly relevant unless you are paying the rent in Belarusian rubles and hardly anyone does so. In my own case I've seen 40% *deflation* in rental costs over the last 18 months as the dollar has collapsed against the pound.

>>another cost which should be taken >>into consideration is the cost of >>registering your stay in Belarus (over >>$800 p.a.)

I actually pay about $300 a year for that ....I forgot about that charge.

Eryk

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by Pin Boy
andrei,
the pros and cons list a good way to give a quick good/bad overview and comparison..thanks

questions:

1) what do you mean about living in a rural area would be lethal even for you? i take that as a joke from your sense of humor....am i correct?

2) it sounds pretty rugged in Omsk...what keeps you there? you have the dental skills and the english fluency...do you stay because of family? friends? Omsk is home and no matter where home may be, people tend to stay close by?

hope you'll shed some light on that topic.

pin boy

1) Lethal- that was a joke, but still.... In the country if you need water you have to walk 15-20 minutes to a well with a couple of buckets. And carry the water home. If you want to piss you put on your coat, cross the yard, get into the wooden booth you call toilet, and do it there in cold and darkness. If you need heat for bathing or cooking you heat up the oven with wood for about an hour. You grow your potatoes yourself, you feed your pork yourself, and you have to kill them pigs yourself, too. That aint for me, believe me !!!)))))))))

2) It sounds pretty rugged for a Westerner, because I wrote it for a WESTERNER. For a RM like me life in Omsk is paradise. Literally. Why I stay here is because I love all the pro's and dont give much about the con's. I just don't notice the con's. See, for a Russian it's easy to find a place to work, walk, dance and have fun and all that stuff. It only would be hard for a Westerner. A lethally cold winter for a Westerner is just a bit cold for a Russian, totally awful road for a Westerner is a pretty decent road for a Russian etc etc etc. I will only move to Moscow if I lose my 2 jobs here.

And plus we have all the best girls in Russia and we're gay-free.

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by andrei
1) Lethal- that was a joke, but still.... In the country if you need water you have to walk 15-20 minutes to a well with a couple of buckets. And carry the water home. If you want to piss you put on your coat, cross the yard, get into the wooden booth you call toilet, and do it there in cold and darkness. If you need heat for bathing or cooking you heat up the oven with wood for about an hour. You grow your potatoes yourself, you feed your pork yourself, and you have to kill them pigs yourself, too. That aint for me, believe me !!!)))))))))

Sound like the log cabin I lived in for three years in Colorado when I was on my find my self journey. I had to hunt for my food or fish for it and the nearest market was 45 min away in the summer and 3-5 hours away during the winter depending on the amount of snow that fell. To tell you the truth it was the best years of my life and you earn a respect for nature and you learn what your boundaries are.

Posted by: andrei

I gotta tell you I always feel deepest respect to people that have done it like you. I have lived in the woods for a couple of weeks, and still we had a food store nearby. But nothing compares to hunting for fish and animals!

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Sounds like how my mother grew up... and they had chickens and a cow too! :-)

...and believe me you DON'T want to hear her stories about how many miles she had to walk IN THE SNOW (She grew up in Nebraska) to get to school in the winter!

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by andrei
If you want to piss you put on your coat, cross the yard, get into the wooden booth you call toilet, and do it there in cold and darkness.

The correct name for those toilets (in the U.S.) is an "outhouse" and yes I heard stories about those too!

not to mention toilet paper didn't exist... it was old newspapers, old catalogs, etc...

Posted by: Vyesna

Yes, but Andrei, if a Westerner is an adaptable person who didn't grow up with a silver spoon in his or her mouth, speaks Russian and gets a job, he or she can also find living there throughly enjoyable and not terribly difficult. I don't think Jill finds it so terribly difficult, especially in Kiev (maybe Armenia is a little harder because of worse infrastructure and services) and neither did I in 1997 in Petersburg (which was then in terms of goods and services probably what Omsk is like now), in fact I rarely found things to complain about. The only thing I didn't like was in fact the toilets, but quite frankly, that's something you learn to deal with pretty easily. And I still think of my stay there with little negativity despite the fact that I was robbed in my own apartment. I still go back every year and enjoy it with virtually no negativity.

I'm not saying that all or even most Westerners can do it, I'm just saying that some of us can without any problems. You really underestimate us.

Posted by: chaika

Yes, I don't think my constitution could make it through the Russian country living. If you want to give it a taste, unclepasha.ru I think that's it, the guy rents out a house in the country, with horses, just the kind of thing you're looking for maybe. Even I might be able to manage out there for a week. =:^0 .

Anyway, if you want to find about housing costs in the Big Yabloko, check out Expat.ru:

http://expat.ru/forum/index.php

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
Sounds like how my mother grew up... and they had chickens and a cow too! :-)

...and believe me you DON'T want to hear her stories about how many miles she had to walk IN THE SNOW (She grew up in Nebraska) to get to school in the winter!

you left out that it was 20 miles each way in a blizzard, uphill both ways

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
you left out that it was 20 miles each way in a blizzard, uphill both ways

LOL

and that too!!!!

Funny thing I did see where she had to walk..

They lived in South Sioux City (Nebraska) had to walk a few miles and cross the bridge to Sioux City Iowa because at that time (and it may still be this way) the junior high/middle school and high school were on the other side of the river.

They got lots of snow and had really bad snow drifts - Be careful opening a door or window!

The wind would pile it up to the roof and if it was against the door, it would fall in on you

Posted by: BradIL

Jill---Andrei---others in the FSU:

I've read about the appreciation of real estate over there. This reminds me of what happened in the U-S from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. Real Estate boomed (initially from a core inflation escalation) but found its own dynamic due to tight supplies.

How can you finance a real estate purchase over there? Are there financing arms such as savings & loans, credit unions, that can write mortgages? Are real estate ownership rights firmly established by the constitution and the various levels of law? This part of the society of the old FSU is such a mystery to me.

This kind of activity seems to be history repeating itself in a different part of the world, in such a similiar manner, that its astonishing!

Posted by: lechef

I would wonder if it is like Mexico that you can own the house but have no legal right to the land unless you are a native resident of the country.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher: Sounds like how my mother grew up...and believe me you DON'T want to hear her stories about how many miles she had to walk IN THE SNOW (She grew up in Nebraska) to get to school in the winter!

Andrei I gotta agree with searcher on this point. My old man grew up during the depression and I heard plenty of those stories from his time in Oklahoma.

'Shoes? We didn't have shoes to wear to school. We made our own shoes. We fashioned two pieces of bark, used twigs for shoelaces, cleaned them every day

, stuffed 'em with dry grass if our feet got cold. AND WE WERE THANKFUL FOR IT! (can't leave that out either)

Ring any bells, searcher? Oh, did I forget the various kinds of bears and other vermin my dad fended off as he walked to school?

Posted by: BradIL

Andrei: Regarding the difficulties one may face when living in Siberia, be it Omsk or a small village, I'll never dispute you.

I've read your post and it seems to square up exactly with other things I've read. I've never been to Russia, much less Siberia, and I am not real eager to see any of this. I'm sure you have a beautiful country dude, but I don't need any of that. After passing 40 years there's a word I am using more frequently... COMFORT. You know what I mean?

I guess you'll now tell me that its in the poorest villages; where its cold, with nowhere to pee, mosquitoes that eat and carry away adults-children-pets, that its here the prettiest, sweetest girls of Russia live. You are going to say this, won't you?

Posted by: lechef

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
Andrei: Regarding the difficulties one may face when living in Siberia, be it Omsk or a small village, I'll never dispute you.

I've read your post and it seems to square up exactly with other things I've read. I've never been to Russia, much less Siberia, and I am not real eager to see any of this. I'm sure you have a beautiful country dude, but I don't need any of that. After passing 40 years there's a word I am using more frequently... COMFORT. You know what I mean?

I guess you'll now tell me that its in the poorest villages; where its cold, with nowhere to pee, mosquitoes that eat and carry away adults-children-pets, that its here the prettiest, sweetest girls of Russia live. You are going to say this, won't you?

mosquitoes in Siberia I do not think they like the cold..burr...

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Yep! My mother grew up during the depression!

Many, many stories she could tell you....

Hey Brad,
I've been to Omsk. I'm friends with Andrei, met him IN PERSON!

No mosquitoes there! About the girls, the prettiest one were (probably) the ones I saw in the city and I must admit there are a lot of nice ones in Omsk (especially mine!) !!!

If you were to go to Omsk, you'll find that it is a nice place. I enjoyed myself there very much (thanks to Andrei and my lady). I wasn't at all uncomfortable there, etc... in fact I could stay there a while! Suprisingly the cold didn't bother me much.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by lechef
mosquitoes in Siberia I do not think they like the cold..burr...

Well they freeze to death here in St. Louis too. But when it warms up they rise again!

In fact... I'm surprised how warm it can get in Siberia in the summer. I've just finished a couple of books by authors who remarked on the heat when they traveled after the OPEN LANDS agreement was signed by Yeltsin.

Bitter cold. Big gallinippers (mosquitoes in the parlance of Mark Twain I believe). Is there any part of the year when its just nice, warm, and not infested with insects that like to bite?

searcher: Yeah... I knew you and Andrei hung out in Omsk... and it sounded like you had fun. No I'm just waiting for Andrei to say "Yes Brad, these are the prettiest, sweetest women on the planet in Siberia. And if you decide to visit here, your butt will be anything, except COMFORTABLE". We'll see if he'll post it.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Great discussion and I have learned a lot...

I had not wanted to redirect this thread as there was a lot of good things being said... but now I will try!!

My main purpose for writing this was moving to Russian TO BE WITH YOUR WIFE / PARTNER whatever you wanted to call her....

To me it seems to be a one way street... AM looks for RW... RW had to give up being close to family and friends and the place she grew up!! Why not have the man sacrifice some and move to HER?

The money that he has would be something that can make life easier for the whole family... not that he would try and live like a westerner...

Posted by: rtking

I've got to admit Texas Proud... I'm seriously considering buying an apartment in Kiev. I would only use it for a month each year (for now), but Olga could return and spend the summer with her friends and family. In the future, I would love to be able to retire and spend 1/2 the year in the US (probably Winter since it's hella cold over there!) and 1/2 the year in Kiev. It's only a dream now... but I am seriously considering it. The only drawback to not living there now is that, 1) I have only 1 parent left and I want to spend as much time with my mom and, 2) I don't know if I would earn enough income in Kiev as I could earn in the US. I've got a house to pay for, etc. and I don't want to sell my home near the beach since I won't be able to afford to buy it again in the future.

Bob

Posted by: andrei

To Brad:

No you wont feel uncomfortable. Because it's my hometown and Im gonna make sure I'll have enuf time to help you with all the transportation & the hotel stuff & the nightclubs & the ladies. If a foreigner visits my city I should make sure he has a good time, thats natural. So that when he gets back he would never talk bad on my Motherland))))

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Proud
Great discussion and I have learned a lot...

I had not wanted to redirect this thread as there was a lot of good things being said... but now I will try!!

My main purpose for writing this was moving to Russian TO BE WITH YOUR WIFE / PARTNER whatever you wanted to call her....

To me it seems to be a one way street... AM looks for RW... RW had to give up being close to family and friends and the place she grew up!! Why not have the man sacrifice some and move to HER?

The money that he has would be something that can make life easier for the whole family... not that he would try and live like a westerner...

I think in the beginning of your "moving to Russia" saga sacrificing will be your main activity everyday. But sooner or later you'll get used to the environment and it will only make you stronger and, your mind will be like, more "cosmopolitan".

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
We made our own shoes. We fashioned two pieces of bark, used twigs for shoelaces, cleaned them every day , stuffed 'em with dry grass if our feet got cold. AND WE WERE THANKFUL FOR IT!

You had twigs?

Posted by: BradIL

Good one Jim. Why didn't I use that one on my old man?

Texas Proud forgive me for veering this thread out of the solar system, but I have to share a story about kids teaching their dad a lesson.

My old man used to make me wash his stationwagon. We had a crab apple tree in the front yard. In the summer the fruit would fall onto the hood of the stationwagon, and in the blazing heat of a STL summer, it would harden into rocks. My brother and I used to have bear down to the point of drawing blood from our knuckles to get them off the hood.

One day, when I was 10 or 11, my dad makes me wash the stationwagon just as I'm heading out to play baseball w/my friends, bike riding, etc. He sez you're not going anywhere until the car is washed.

So I hurry and try and get it done, but the crab apples are welded on the hood and I can't get them off, so I say 'hey I can't get those scraped off, let me try later.'

Dad sez no baseball or fun until the job is done, and that hood better not have a crab apple on it. I start in, my friends abandon me, this is depressing.

The crab apples aren't going anywhere when it occurs to me I need a little scrubbing power. So I added a little something to the washwater.

Brad: 'Dad the car is clean, there's not a speck of crab apple on the hood. Its an outstanding job.'

Dad: 'Well let old Dad be the judge of that.'

Brad: 'Look real close.'

Dad: 'Yeah... the crab apples are gone but son you need to rinse the hood, its a little cloudy from the soap.'

Brad: 'No dad I've rinsed it 3 times, that scrubbing agent will come out of it eventually.'

Dad: 'What did you add to the soap?'

Brad: 'COMET'

My dad didn't get mad. He just put his hands in his pockets, stared at the hood with BIG EYES, and kept his shaking his head no-no-no.

The shine on the hood of that car was never the same. Within in a year that crab apple tree was gone, I was never criticized for not trying hard enough ever again, and I believe that I never had to hear another depression-era story again.

And to think there's a RW who might say "yes" when I propose.

Posted by: Eryk

>>To me it seems to be a one way street... AM looks for RW... RW >>had to give up being close to family and friends and the place >>she grew up!! Why not have the man sacrifice some and >>move to HER?

Good question. My answer is "I did". I'm not an "AM" (I am British), but I did have to abandon a career based in New York ('State' - closer to Buffalo really) in order to do this.

>>The money that he has would be something that can make life >>easier for the whole family... not that he would try and live like >>a westerner

Correct. Also the figures be bandied about for rental etc. are mostly those appropriate for people simply 'visiting' for a few weeks or maybe months. When you actually 'move' and the landlord knows he is both taking on and 'gaining' a multi-year responsibility/cashflow then the dynamics of the negotiation are different.

Eryk

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

I don't think Jill finds it so terribly difficult, especially in Kiev

No, it's not really. Not anymore. The first time I lived in Russian (in 1994) it was more difficult for me. I was living in a provincial town that still did not have many consumer goods, and also had a lot of problems with electricity, water, etc. (And, of course, my language sklls weren't as strong then.) But now I'm used to these things and, although there are certainly inconveniences, there are plenty of good things to make up for them.

Quote:

How can you finance a real estate purchase over there? Are there financing arms such as savings & loans, credit unions, that can write mortgages? Are real estate ownership rights firmly established by the constitution and the various levels of law? This part of the society of the old FSU is such a mystery to me.

Well, this is not my area of expertise, but I do know that there are loan programs for purchasing apartments--some that are also specifically geared to young families with low to mid-incomes. I know some people who have applied to these programs, but haven't heard any updates on how the process is going.

Of other people I know, my brother in law was given a REALLY good deal on his apartment through work (too good to pass up so he borrowed money from everyone he knew and purchased it). And my husband was basically "given" an apartment--his parents lived in a state owned aparmtent and for a nominal fee (and a bunch of bureaucracy) they were able to privatise the apartment and put it in my husband's name.

Posted by: Mark18

I agree i find Moscow very expensive more so then the UK,and the wages here are a lot less.I'm amazed how people get by here but they just do.
Flats here are crazy(expensive) as well,me and my wife are thinking of getting a flat outside of Moscow cos it's a lot cheaper.One great thing about here is that the transport is reliable.