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Europe vs America
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Posted by: Jutman

From another thread:

Quote:

Think about it - the US needs a strong Russia against the German euro-giant

Let me put make it simple: the giant is not that big, only at paper.

Military:
Europe is a couple of decades behind America, and even with a decision now, it will take another decade to reach the current American level.

Population:
If it was'nt for for the immigration all EU countries would have a decreasing population, and it seems soon that the population will start to fall. With current numbers, USA will be bigger than EU in 75 years.

Economy:
The Western part of EU is now strongling against the globalisation, with an average unemployment rate of 8% (Germany more than 10%) and with budget deficit in most countries, its a right now a little blur future.

Political:
Europe and/EU its not a political unity, where some countries are faithfull allied to America and others are not. Each country has its own history and therefor its own interests in various issues.

EU-USA:
Will be friends in the future to, even there is issues where they don't understand each other, but to jeopardize economy and the alliance seems a rather distant vision.
So a triple realtionship with USA, EU and Russia will continue for many years, even with minor disagreements. And I hope it will be for the better, for all 3 partners with such an arangement.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

That's just what you think because you're not taking two things into account - German psychology (resulting in the longings to resurrect Great Germany and throw off the last vestiges of Potsdam) and the increasing Maghrebization of France. Of course, it is understandable that a Russian sees the USA and the EU as one "Western" (whatever that means in AD 2005 ?!) entity, but the EU is becoming increasingly federalized in order to compete with the USA. That they're lagging behind the USA is not really an issue, since it was never an issue for the Soviet bloc either ... and now, it seems to me, the socialist empire went from Eastern Europe (after having expolited it) to Western Europe - Moscow to Brussels. It's quite interesting how all this works, isn't it ?

Posted by: Jutman

Pawel

I can tell you, that most europeans are much more afraid of a week Germany, instead of a strong Germany.

1) mainly because Germany has been the locomotive of economics,and when Germany is hurt, its difficult to export, and therefor its hurt the countries around Germany.
2) If germany is weak, it gives the extreme rigth-wings a reason to re-emerge, but to imagine they will ever be a central political factor is not a concern.

---

About the Moscow-Bruxells idea: We are not that fare away about this one. But actually maybe Moscow is more capitalistic now, than Bruxells.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Well, there are lots of selfish little interests that are interested in strengthening Germany ... and there have always been such selfish and irresponsible people. Remember all the British and Jewish pressures after WW I during the Versailles conference to save as much of Germany's power as possible, as well as to weaken Poland as much as possible and also to reduce the fruits of victory that France rightly deserved. Germanophilia that arises from ignorance has always lead to problems.

Quote:

About the Moscow-Bruxells idea: We are not that fare away about this one. But actually maybe Moscow is more capitalistic now, than Bruxells.

Yes, exactly, and that's why Umberto Bossi has rightly labeled it the European Soviet Union. And another problem is that people in the West have never experienced the brutal, bloody and genocidal side of socialism and thus there are so many half-brains in the West that dream about experiencing some sort of revolutionary adventure or experiment. I see these morons all the time in America's universities in fact.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by Pawel_PL.USA: Of course, it is understandable that a Russian sees the USA and the EU as one "Western" (whatever that means in AD 2005 ?!) entity, but the EU is becoming increasingly federalized in order to compete with the USA. That they're lagging behind the USA is not really an issue, since it was never an issue for the Soviet bloc either

Pawel--- interesting observation. I preface my remarks by saying I agree with Brian/Jutman, with current circumstances, good relations between US-Europe-Russia should prevail, differences notwithstanding.

Well Russia (Putin) sends mixed messages on whether US & Western Europe is a coordinated entity. Through policy statements, trade strategy, Russia sees it.

But he embraces any effort to strengthen bilateral relations with the US & individual european countries. Its as if he has favorites and cultivates his favorites and could care less if everything else heads down the toilet.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Hmm, well yes, but not exactly. Russia may still flex its velikoderzavnye muskuly (Great Power muscles), but that's more for show than anything else ... an attempt to conceal a certain degree of insecurity. Russia is threatened by the growing militancy of Islamdom and the growing power of Red China. If push comes to shove, as they say, who will help Russia ? Can Russia seriously count on the Germans and the French and all of liberal, demoralized socialist Europe to help financially and militarily? Can you imagine France, that's becoming more and more Arabized every day, to stand firm against the Jihadniks ? Think about it. For Russia the United States is the only potential ally strong enough to deter and successfully resist the Chinese and the Islamofascists (as one of my American acquaintances calls them).