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Differences in Russian Men & Western Men... (and is this type of discussion useful?)

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Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:
Originally posted by Khashyar
Hi everyone....



I wanted to write some thoughts about how my wife Lena is the same and different than my previous girlfriends (or relationship partners)....

Perhaps by reflected upon this, it may give me (and others) some insight about what might be different about Russian women from Western (or American) women...

[Sorry, Khashyar, but I think you are mistaking "Russianess" for individual traits a bit here, despite your attempts in the other subject to stay away from that.]


1) Lena does give more attention to clothes and in the style of clothes that she wears.

[This I'll give you is a Russian trait, but it's key to remember that is in large part a result of social imposition. I think we used to be more like that here, too, but in the past twenty years or so comfort has become the primary focus of most Americans when deciding what to wear. Personally, I prefer European tendencies in dress, but to each his own. I do follow the American inclination that it's not necessary to dress to the nines to go to the local store. This is frequently a hot topic on the RWA forum, between those who've been here for a while and like the reduced social criticism of one's wardrobe and those who have just moved here and are shocked by "slobby" Americans.]

2) Lena feels responsible for making me food to eat when I come home from working. Lena is not working now, so she has the time to do this. On a couple of occasions, I told Lena that she really didn't need to do this, but she told me something like: "a Russian woman would not feel comfortable if she did cook food for her family."

[I don't know--- not all Russian women, as you point out yourself. I think this is a matter of common human decency, not a particular unique feature of "traditional" women. When I work more than my husband or he works on the weekends and I don't, I cook for him. When I work more, he often cooks for me. When we're both busy, we fend for ourselves and no one is the worse for it. From what I understand, Lena has not had a full time job yet, either here or there. Once she has that kind of responsibility, or even just has a kid (which takes up a lot of time even for those without jobs), her outlook may change a bit. Who cooks and who cleans should be a matter of who has the time and all other things being equal, who prefers which chores. If your past girlfriends did not cook or clean as often -- well, did they have jobs? Did they live with you? Probably more often yes to the first and no to the second. I think it's perfectly acceptable to expect a non-working live-in wife to do the bulk of the cooking and cleaning. Expecting a working or studying girlfriend who does not live with you to do the same is totally different, and I don't really understand how you can compare the two situations.

Same goes for what a woman would typically expect out of a husband living with them as opposed to a boyfriend. ]

3) This is a bit harder to explain, but for some reason, I don't have any thought or worry that Lena would ever leave the relationship or be unfaithful. I just feel the realness and depth of her commitment.

[I'm not sure if you're trying to say something about American women here or not-- did you feel like most of your past girlfriends would leave or be unfaithful? ]

4) She wants to treat my family as if it were her own family. My Persian girlfriends also felt the same way, but my American girlfriends did not really have the same devotion and loyalty to family.

[Again, I think it is unfair to compare girlfriends, with most of whom you were not planning marriage, with a current wife. I treat my husband's family as if it was my own-- I consider helping them out financially as well as spending time with them every year and considering their wishes and desires to be as important as doing the same with my own. I don't think I would have had that perspective on the family of every boyfriend I had, unless we had reached the point of commitment akin to marriage (which didn't happen). Marriage creates a legal and social tie to the in-laws that doesn't happen before marriage, for the most part-- I just don't see how you can compare the attitude a girlfriend, whom you never married, to that of your now wife. If you and Lena were still in the dating stage, would she be as focused on that? Maybe, but less likely. Of course, some women probably aren't that interested in their husband's families and vice versa, which is a personal problem. Everyone has a certain level of conflict with their in-laws, but all of the American wives I have known make an effort to get along with and develop some relationship with their in-laws, often more of an effort than their husbands make. I certainly hope that you feel the same way about her family-- this is by no means more of a wife's responsibility than a husband's.]


5) Although Lena naturally focuses and is drawn towards domestic matters, she also REALLY is anxious to want to work and to contribute to our family financially. Actually, two of `my Persian girlfriends had both the interest in taking care of the more domestic sides of the family as well as pursuing their own careers, but another Persian girlfriend would rather just stay at home and be a homemaker. The American women previously in my life were more career oriented than interested in creating a nice domestic environment. (Of course, I know that there are American women who are more interested in domestic affairs, and I am making no judgment at all on which role or roles a woman should pursue)....

[A lot of American women feel like that until they get married, and then they may focus on their careers less or the same depending on financial circumstances, age, and the type of careers they have. Now that I am married and expecting a child, I can say that staying home for a few years would appeal to me-- if it were possible in our family. As I am the breadwinner, it is not, so my husband will do more of the staying home instead. That's just the way it is. In the small town I grew up in, I would say twice as many women were interested in making a nice home environment and were really into their crafts and so on as were interested in having a career-- and in the city, probably the opposite is true. However, I can say this-- I work in a large law firm and though the number of men and women who start as associates are about equal, the number of female senior associates and partners is far fewer than the number of male. Why? In large part because far more female than male lawyers decide that they would rather focus on their families more than their careers, and large law firms make that rather difficult.]

6) As expected, Lena thinks of politics and other issues from a multi-cultural perspective, rather than a singly American point of view.

[Okay, but do you know to what extent she is focusing on these issues from a singly Russian point of view? To be honest, this doesn't make much sense, because everyone focuses on these issues from their own point of view, of which nationality is only one aspect.]

7) Lena really does have a talent for cooking (although, as I have mentioned before, two of Lena's Russian friends in Los Angeles have little interest in cooking at all.)

[For God's sake, have you never met American women who are good cooks? ]

8) Lena has NO interest in television or movies AT ALL. Of course, most Americans have been raised to routinely watch t.v. Perhaps Lena's lack of interest in t.v. is because there was only one small movie theater in her town of Mogilev, Belarus, and she nver watched any of the 4 t.v. stations that were available to her in her town. Lena's family spent lots of time sitting together and talking and eating as a family, so perhaps she was used to more social interactions rather than individually watching t.v.

[Hmmm... I don't know. My husband's family watches a fair amount of TV, but I think there is more available in Petersburg probably than in Belarus. I'm inclined to think that Americans watch more TV than Russians on average, though, because of cable and other reasons.]

9) Lena is used to being able to weather difficulties, and does not expect to life a comfortable life. I think that many Americans expect comfortable surroundings, and physical ease that our standard of living brings us.

[I don't know, again, who you've been dating, but I've never "expected" a comfortable life and certainly to the extent I expected to improve my life or give myself more comfort, I have always expected that to come from my own efforts and not expected anyone to give any level of comfort to me. Russians and anyone from poorer countries are probably used to the idea that things aren't always easy and so on, that's true. The extent to which an American thinks that I think depends on their upbringing and class. When I left a relatively poor rural town to study at a university where a lot of wealthy students go, I certainly noticed the same sort of difference in outlook between myself and them. I think the same could be said of Russians of different classes-- the daughter of a well-to-do Russian politician or professional might also differ from Lena in this way. However, the scale of these differences is different, I'll grant you that. There are certainly more what I would call spoiled American children than spoiled Russian children (I taught the equivalent of middle class children in Russia and had some chance to observe).]

(I will post more of these differences later...... and perhaps we can have a better understanding of Russian people and our Russian and Western partners by talking about this.

Khashyar

P.S... Feel free to add differences that YOU have noticed in your significant others also....


Once difference I've noticed between my husband and past boyfriends--- he generally seems more sure of himself and doesn't take himself as seriously. But I think due in part to age (he was in his late 20s when we met while my boyfriends up to then were in their early to mid 20s) and to the fact that he is a particularly self-confident and optimistic person-- I don't think Russianness has much to do with it.


Posted by: Khashyar

Thanks, Vyesna, for posting your observations about Russian men...

Perhaps it would be interesting to begin a thread about observations about Russian men and Western men...

I have also heard that Russian men tend to be less into examining feelings, etc., and are less hindered of afraid to express their masculinity than American men in general.

I am going to break this into a seperate thread, so that people can recognize this subject of Russian/ Western men better....

Khashyar


Posted by: Khashyar

Vyesna...

So, you are saying that you are not sure whether the greater level of confidence that you notice in your Russian husband is partly due to the fact that he is older than your past younger American boyfriends, or whether it is completely related to the fact that your Russian husband is older than your previous Western boyfriends???

I am curious as to what other women see as (general) differences in Russian and Western men???

(for example, I heard that Russian men tend to hold more doors open for women, and take on a more chivalrous role with women than Western men do (in general).....)

Khashyar


Posted by: Vyesna

Actually, what I said about my husband was an afterthought and to be honest, I didn't have a long enough relationship with anyone up to that point to really compare. I was really replying (in brackets) to what your comparison of Lena to your past girlfriends, and as I was trying to point out there, it's kind of hard to compare someone you've actually married to someone you just went out with, unless you went out with them and lived with them for a considerable amount of time. I still haven't gotten down the quote in between new text skill, so you probably didn't notice my text within your original message.

I actually don't like comparing Western men to Russian men as a group, anymore than I like to see American women being compared to Russian women as a group. There are broad generalizations one can make, but I don't think they are helpful to think about too much unless your doing a study or trying to write an article. Thinking about them too much can have a negative impact on how you relate to each individual you meet, I think. It's kind of like comparing white Americans to black Americans as a group while thinking about your own relationship as a white American with the black Americans you know or vice versa-- generally not a particularly healthy exercise unless you are trying to do something concrete, as I said-- like make a study, create a policy, etc. To be honest, if I paid too much attention to what people say about Russian men, I probably would have become completely paranoid that my husband is going to be an alcoholic, cheat on me, possibly beat me, never lift a finger around the house and ignore his children. If I paid too much attention to what a lot of people say about American women on these types of forums, I would have to slit my wrists by now because I would have to come to the conclusion that I am destined to be a fat, ugly, butch, cold, selfish and generally useless to society woman who will be abandoned by all the men of the world seeking "real" women like Russian women. See what I mean? Not a healthy exercise.

I know you are just trying to stimulate conversation, and that's cool. I just typically get frustrated with generalizations about any people as a group, especially as a national group, since one's nationality is not a matter of choice and therefore, since people choose to become who they are as individuals, it's not helpful to overemphasize their nationality as a trait of their character (I think it's more useful to make generalizations about people who make similar choices to put themselves in a group-- ie, lawyers in a particular practice or surfers or members of a particular club, or whatever, because there is actually a behavioral basis for that group).


Posted by: jrenwald

Quote:
Originally posted by Vyesna
Once difference I've noticed between my husband and past boyfriends--- he generally seems more sure of himself and doesn't take himself as seriously. But I think due in part to age (he was in his late 20s when we met while my boyfriends up to then were in their early to mid 20s) and to the fact that he is a particularly self-confident and optimistic person-- I don't think Russianness has much to do with it.


Your replies to Khashyar's observations were dead on.


Posted by: jrenwald

I would have to agree with Vyesna on this one. It is what I have been trying to say all along. It is troubling to try to attribute certain personal characteristics like "faithfulness" or "love of cooking" or "willingness to work" to a person's nationality. People really are individuals. To me, very general comparisons between groups or nations are less ridiculous and more forgivable than trying to ascribe each of the agreeable (or not) traits of your spouse to her country of origin. In other words, I hope that the traits you love about Lena have more to do with who she is as an individual and less to do with her nationality.

I laughed when I read Vyesna's description of the traits of a Russian man. I, too, have had this litany of undesirable characteristics preached to me from others claiming to know what "Russian" men are like. Yeah? Well, I simply must beg to differ.


Posted by: Khashyar

Dear Vyesna (and Jessica)...

I appreciate this discussion, and that it takes us to a greater understanding by reflecting upon our subject and sharing our thoughts and ideas...

I know that you don't like to compare either Russian and Western men or women as a group

I find it interesting to think about and speak about these things because I feel that it gives us more understanding of cultural differences, and also about what traits in our spouses may have been influenced by their culture...

Of course, you love a person for the person (and not the country)...

Jessica and Vyesna... I have a quesiton for all of us: if you raised one of two twin boys in Russian and America, how much of each of the boy's cultures would affect and influence their thoughts, their beliefs, their likes and dislikes in food, the way that they approach conflicts, their outlooks in life, and other things..... do you think that these two boys, when they turn 30, will have pronounced differences because of the different Russian and American environments in which they were raised?

Would the same apply to two twin girls, one of whom, for example, is raised in a city of 100,000 in Russia, and the other raised in a town of 100,000 in the U.S....

I believe that there would be significant differences in these twin boys and girls, based upon the discernable differences and influences of their cultures, the propaganda fed them from their respective medias and governments, etc....

A Russian person and an American (or someone from another Western nation) has been shaped by different cultural influences, and I think that it is useful and interesting to examine what these influences might have been.

Of course, we don't want to label a person with broad stereotypical strokes, because you do not focus as much on the uniqueness of the individual.

But, each unique individual has also been influenced significantly by the culture, friends and family where they were raised, and I think it is important to understand the subtle and also foundational influences that a person's culture has had on them...

Actually, addressing Vyesna's comment about not legitimately being able to compare White Americans and African Americans... Of course you don't want to disrespect an individual because they might be African American or American Caucasian or Russian.... But, I have taught urban African-American teenagers from South Central Los Angeles, as well as "white" children from more suburban areas, and although of course each individual shares common human traits and characteristics, each individual also is shaped by their culture, the music they listen to, their neighborhoods, etc.... From my personal observations, I have of course noticed that Black and White children have similar human experiences of love, anger, fear, feelings of accomplishment, enjoying excelling at what they do best, etc... But, I also observed, in general, that they are GENERALLY influenced by two different cultures and social environments, and their different cultures have influenced them in different ways. Of course, not all African Americans are the same, and not all Anglo Americans are the same. But, I believe that if you ask African Americans and White Americans if there are traits that are more prevelant and unique to each culture, then you would often receive a "yes" answer.

So, I don't want to minimize the individual by speaking about how different cultural groups are different. Instead, I want to understand how each unique individual (especially the one who we marry ) has been affected and impacted by their culture...

Maybe it would be more helpful if we focused on how our individual spouses and partners have been distinctly and uniquely individually impacted by their respective cultures, rather than saying that ALL American men, for example, are this way or that way. (Although, I DO think that, in GENERAL, American men and women are more concerned than many other cultures with making money, for example, and with possessing material things. I think that, as another example, American men and women are less knowlegable about other nationalities when compared with European citizens.

So, I DO think that we can identify and talk about national characteristics in general and how it influences someone. Of course, not all citizens of a nation possess certain national mean characteristics, but... I think that talking about traits that most of a people possess can help us understand our spouses better...

Vyesna, I understand that you did not pay attention to the negative stereotypes of Russian men, and that your husband does not fit the negative stereotypes. An interesting question might be what percentage of Russian men do express certain stereotypical traits of "Russian men," and even more relevant, WHY do they possess these traits and what caused these behaviors? (The same approach can be applied to American men, American women, Danish men and others....)

Regarding American women and stereotypes about them..... I don't recall degrading and disrespectful attacks or judgments about American women here in this forum. Of course, I think that it is helpful for EVERYONE to talk about their specific personal experiences, because we ALL gain greater understanding by openly and freely speaking what we really feel and believe... This is one of the benefits of a good open discussion forum... Open and unfettered discussion shines light on any subject, and we all benefit....

Yes.... we do not choose where we are born, and whether we were born in the Soviet Union or born in England.... Of course, no one should evaluate someone's worth based upon where they are from (although prejudice is alive and well in the world, including the U.S. and Russia and Sweden and many many other places in the world.... (perhaps this applies to virtually EVERY place in the world until we mature and grow beyond that as the Human Race...)

Of course, Jessica, I love and chose Lena because of who she was as an individual.... But, I still find it interesting (although I don't do this 99.6% of the time that I am with her) to think about what cultural traits influenced both Lena and me.....

This forum provides a perfect place to reflect about these cultural questions, and.... I believe that we can all shed light onto the deeper unknown depths of ourselves, our partners and our relationships by discussing and reflecting on these issues....

This conversation about the importance or relevance of these types of discussions is also a part of this deeper exploration and also a part of the subsequent illumination that we all will receive after we have gone deeply into these issues and questions.

Thank you for your thoughts and contributions...

Khashyar


Posted by: Jutman

A come on, Yes of course everybody has a individual personality BUT..
That personality is determined on the value and cultural traits in a country. They maybe only representaive 20-30 % of a persons identity, but it is there.

Even I only visted Russia once for 8 days, there was many issue I was able to recognize from the study. Like not to show feelings in public.

I did several thing when I visted Russia and got the instant respond, this is not how Russia men behave. I have espescially 3 issue I like myself.
1) The Russian man should be egocentric and don't spend money at this lady, children. Don't call home if he is late and are not helpful domestically.
2) Nata and a friend was surprised that I knew how to cook, wanted to help take the dishes out. Her friend answer me, when I took the first dish "NO NO, women work".
3) Russian men are NOT into kids, the same way a Western man. My Nata and her family was very surprised that I want to play with Nata's 8 years niece.

A personal observation is that I feel 80% of the young men look like they are from prison with a machine haircut. I did'nt feel safe over there.


Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone...

I think that a way to speak about this in a way that might provide us with some illumination about the subject is to speak about our individual personal experiences....

Brian... regarding the "prison haircuts" Short hair must be the style in the area where you lived (or, perhaps in all of Russia).. But, of course, it doesn't mean that Russian men who have such short haircuts have been in or deserve to be in prison......

(I am going to think about thismore right now, and write more in a few minutes....)

Khashyar


Posted by: Khashyar

Brian....

It makes sense to me what you wrote about ones cultural environment being some percentage (you mentioned 20-30%) of a person's personality... The rest is genetics, family environment, random circumstances that a person has experienced in their life...

Again, I would like to read more about our personal experiences that reveal something to us about Russian men (or American men, etc....)

I am thinking what is the best way to approach this subject, and to move to some place illuminating where we gain some different understanding about this.....

Khashyar


Posted by: Khashyar

I wanted to also acknowledge that it is obvious that Vyesna and Jessica have a positive experience with their Russian husbands... so, they have met Russian men who do not fit some of the negative stereotypes....

Again, I am curious, from everyone's personal experiences out there, as to what they have personally experienced regarding the prevalence of the "Russian male" stereotype....

Are there really certain cultural traits of Russian men that exist in Russia?? Or.... Are these Russian stereotypes that we read and hear about an exaggerated myth??


Posted by: Jim_FL

One thing Liliya finds quite novel is that I ask her opinion on things and take her thoughts and concerns into consideration when making decisions.

I posted in another thread here that my brother works with a number of Russian men daily. His only problem in dealing with them is that they will not accept input from any of the women they work closely with, simply because they are women. I spoke with Liliya about this the other day, and she said "Ahh, yes....of course they will not listen to the women, they are true Russian men" She went on to say that when she had an idea, she had to present it to her ex-husband in such a way that he would believe it was his own idea, only then would it be a "good" idea. If she presented it as her own idea, ESPECIALLY if anyone else was around, then it was a stupid wothless idea. On rare occasion he would come back days later and acknowledge that he had been tricked.

At first glance this would appear to be very chauvanistic on the part of the men, but is it really? Could it be more than that, perhaps a product of the much more clearly defined roles of men and women in russian culture? I'm not sure.

I will say the limited contact I had with Russian men while I was there showed a wide ranging array of personalities. Certainly as diverse as any random group of men you would meet here. I will say though that in my personal experience, the "drinking" stereotype held true. From the evening of November 6 to the evening of November 10th, in the 4th or 5th largest city in Russia. Not one sober man, in a city of several million - for 4 days straight.


Posted by: Jutman

JIM FL

Here is the million cities in 1994:
Moskva (Moscow) .......................8,663,142
Sankt Peterburg (St. Petersburg) 4,827,538
Novosibirsk .................................1,401,100
Nizhnii Novgorod .........................1,391,250
Ekaterinoburg (Yekaterinburg) ....1,322,950
Samara (Samarskaya oblast) ......1,220,950
Omsk ...........................................1,186,0 00
Chelyabinsk................................. 1,114,400
Ufa ..............................................1,09 5,850
Kazan .........................................1,081,750
Perm ...........................................1,044,3 50
Volgograd ...................................1,026,750

[www.geohive.com

Now you if it was the 4th of 5th biggest city in Russia you visited

Khas...

about haircut. I never indicated they actually were criminal, just they look liked it

There was a lot of small issues I was told to recognize by my lady. Like when were riding public transportation, where a man would not accept a discussion in public. (ok also in the west, but more in Russia, were it could be a simple remark he would'nt accept - I was of course only told this).
I guess it also tells a lot about the men, that they just can leave their wife and kid and never pay child support money.
That you are not a real man if you are not ready to be defend your lady and not a real man if he at the age of 25, sleeps around. (agian, something Nata told me - however she did tell that some men don't care about this)

Her behavior, and future plans if we mess up are clearly a product of this.

BR


Posted by: Jim_FL

Wayy off topic, BUT Novosibirsk, Nizhnii Novgorod, & Ekaterinoburg were all very close in 1994. A lot of births and deaths can happen in 9 years! All three call themselves the 3rd Largest city if you ask the people who live there

The point was, we actually had to step *around* drunks who had fallen over on the sidewalk, as we made our way back to the hotel at night....... Each evening the local news showed many stories of men who had gotten drunk and either crashed their cars and put themselves in the hospital or died, men who had gotten drunk and burned down their apartments, drunk men who had fallen in the river and other scenarios to numerous to mention. It took up a good 15 minutes of the newscast each night! Sure we have drunks here that do stupid irrespponsible things, but nowhere near what I saw there on a holiday weekend. I'm sure I was not the only sober man in the city, but I never saw another...........


Posted by: betty

Ladies:
Thank you for your replies as I am engaged to a Russian man. If I had heard of all of the stereotypes before meeting him, I would have been scared off. He is not anything like what is described of the "typical Russian Male"-- and that goes for his father and brother-in- law.
If either of you would care to share a little background, I would love to hear it!! I was beginning to think that I was the only American woman with a Russian man-- lol


Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Betty....

Thanks for your thoughts about this thread.

I am happy that our forum can also receive the perspectives of American and Western women and their experiences and thoughts about Russian men...

I am also happy that your and other relationships and marriages to Russian men are going well, and I wish you, Vyesna and Jessica very long and happy marriages...

One thought that that came to me is perhaps that Russian men who are attracted to Western women might be more open to foreign cultures as well as be more open and accepting of a Western model of "a relationship of equals" than more traditional Russian men who are living in Russia....

I live in Los Angeles (actually, in Hollywood), and I have an opportunity to meet many Russian men and women. There was a Russian man is a carpenter working on a building next to mine, and I was interested in his thoughts and ideas and so I spoke with him for a few hours on different subjects....

He told me that when he was in Russia, he was simply interested in drinking, women and having fun (those were his words).

But, when he moved to the West (to Los Angeles), he said that he became more spiritual, and that he became more interested in philosophical thinking and spirituality, he drinks less, and that he has been rethinking his thoughts about relationships with women.

So, that is one personal experience that I had with a Russian man....

I would be interested (and I think others would be interested) in reading some stories of how the Western women in our forum met and developed their relationships with their Russian partners.....

If you feel comforable sharing your thoughts, experiences and observations about your relationships with the Russian men in your lives, please share them with us....

Also, I very much welcome your Russian husbands and fiances to join this forum and add their thoughts and feedback here...

(And thank you for your thoughts about this subject, Jim and Brian)...

Khashyar


Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:
Originally posted by Khashyar

He told me that when he was in Russia, he was simply interested in drinking, women and having fun (those were his words).


На-ha, I live here in America for almost 6 years, and my interests remain the same!


Posted by: imightbeafool

my husband is russian and he says he can't be with a russian woman because they are too nice and accomodating. he likes it when i get mad at him for doing wrong. he likes it when i have an attitude. he doesn't want me to do everything he tells me to do with a smile, he likes a challenge!
i do love to cook for him, though. i work full time, but i always find time to cook for him. it's always something different, and i usually make him a cake or pie or muffins for breakfast, plus i'll make him two different main dishes- one for lunch and one for dinner. i made him borscht, russian meat pies(cheburek), beef stroganoff, plus many many other recipes that i find online. he gained almost 10 pounds in the 5 months we've been married!
i refused to iron his clothes for him and i make him do the dishes sometimes. when we clean, he does the bathroom and living room, and i do the kitchen and bedroom. someday, when he can afford it, i'd like to stay home and do all of the cooking and cleaning, and go to the gym everyday and maybe take some classes. i guess i'm very domestic for an american woman?
but i always speak my mind and give him trouble when he's bad, and he likes that. we are equals.


Posted by: Jill

Quote:
my husband is russian and he says he can't be with a russian woman because they are too nice and accomodating


That's funny, because my Ukrainian husband says the exact opposite: Ukrainian girls are all stervi and blyadi (his words, not mine ). According to him, all they do is complain, demand things (gifts, etc), and can't be trusted to be faithful (he has had some pretty bad exeriences with this one). He never intended to meet an American--we met entirely by chance. But once we did, there was no going back for him Nor for me

Quote:
I did several thing when I visted Russia and got the instant respond, this is not how Russia men behave. I have espescially 3 issue I like myself 1) The Russian man should be egocentric and don't spend money at this lady, children. Don't call home if he is late and are not helpful domestically.
2) Nata and a friend was surprised that I knew how to cook, wanted to help take the dishes out. Her friend answer me, when I took the first dish "NO NO, women work".
3) Russian men are NOT into kids, the same way a Western man. My Nata and her family was very surprised that I want to play with Nata's 8 years niece.


I just could not disagree more. I have lived inthe FSU for the better part of 10 years and know (and have dated) quite a few Russian/Ukrainian men. This is just not an accurate description of the majority of them. My husband is very reponsible and always calls to tell me where he is, what he is doing, when he'll be home. etc. He is an EXCELLENT cook And he adores kids--and they love him. His niece is the apple of his eye and he can't wait to have kid of his own (we have already chosen names even ).

But let's say it's true: FSU men are awful, lazy, abusive, alcoholics who never help around the house (those are the current stereotypes, correct?). Why? What made them this way? Society? But society is 50% women (actually in Russia it is over 50% women). So maybe we should reexamine the role of FSU women? Women are truly the "builders of society." In both the US and the FSU (as well as in many other countries) women are the primary caregivers of both sons and daughters. (Again, this is especially true in the FSU where certain historical forces (the purges, war, and other excesses of the Soviet regime) have meant that a few generations of children have been raised almost exclusively by women.) A boy's formative years are in the "training" and care of his mother. If you assert that there are some fundamental flaws in Russian men, doesn't it stand to reason that they germinate under the care of Russian women? Why would a man consider washing dishes "women's work" (to use the above example)? Who taught him that? For right or wrong, he probably learned that from his mother!

Again, I simply do not buy into the stereotypes of FSU men. But if you are convinced of your position on the matter (and everyone is entitled to their opinion), then maybe it's time to step a back back and ask yourself "why?"


Posted by: Doctor Channard

There are several western men here with inferiority complex.


Posted by: Jutman

An old tread, who a little alive in the summer.

well, its funny to ready what I wrote 5 years ago. It doesnt stand anymore. Even my wife can see the tremendious change her city has undergone. They smile now, dads take takre of theire kids. And no wonder why the numbers of momwn from Russia who seeks foreign men has dropped by more than 50%.


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