tsunami - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

tsunami
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Jutman

Hi

After 2 weeks, I return and find to my surprise, that none here has made a common on above.

I am sure most amercican are aware of this, since some americans was victims of the this disaster.

My wife, who is back home in Russia for New Year and Christmas has told me that there is also russian victims.

With the info we get in Denmark; Scandinavia is the Western region who is hardest hit, Sweden alone hash 59 confirmed deads and more than 3500 missing. Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark & Finland) has now more than 100 confirmed deads and almost 6000 missing. Now a week after, the chance for find the missing people are slim, but some will, mainly due to some are missing due to communication problems.

The region in Asia is a populare Northerne Europe tourist resort. And I am sort of personal affected byy it indirectly.

My sister-in-laws dad who lives in New York, has a house on the beach i Thailand, where the tsunami hit. Normally they go every xmas, but this year they stayed home, because the sons started at college. Theire house still stand, but the surroundings dont'. The resturant they eat breakfast at everyday is gone.

My wifes sisters boss is in Sri Lanka. Is she okay? we don't know.

I have a collegue, who was travelling in this area in Thailand and as I write this, I don't know if he and his family is ok.

My friend who is thai married, they were at this beach just 1½ year ago. His wife has another thai collegue and she was going to the Phi Phi islands. They also await monday, to see if she is okay.

----
Because Scandinavia has loss themselves, a major donation has started.
Norway* 23 mill. USD. or 5,1 mill per 1 million citizen.
Sweden 5,8 mill. USD or 0,65 mill. -#-
Denmark 5,5 mill. USD or 1,02 mill. -"-
all data at teh 31/12.

* I believe this number include the donation from the goverment, but maybe not.
The Swedish goverment donate 73 mill. USD or more than 8 mill. per 1 mill. citizen.
The Danish goverment donate 54,5 mill. USD or 10,3 pr. 1 mill.

In comparison:
Japanese goverment: 500 mill. USD or 3,93 mill. per 1 mill. citizen
USA goverment: 195 mill. USD or 0,67 mill. per 1 mill. citizen.

But I am aware of private donation in thise countries as well. Alone the business world in america has given more than 200 million USD.

I hope every dollar, yen, pound, krone, Euro, roubel and so on can make a difference, to these many many thosands of victims around Asia.
At TV I only hear so much good of the native citizen in these countries, who help even they are in a hot spot themselves.

And to the relatives, friends of the the victims, missing people. I can only write: be strong.

Posted by: rtking

Hi Brian,

Actually, the US has pledged $350 Million in aid to the disaster victims. (It was originally $35MM, but increased to $350 a day later. This is almost all of the International Disaster Relief Fund's budget (of $384MM) allocated by the US Government.

Bob

Posted by: Pin Boy

i personally donate money to the international red cross in situations like these...i also donate money to the american red cross when there are domestic natural disasters...i get a little perturbed when a contest is made about who is giving how much...no foreign donation money flows into the US when entire towns are flattened by tornados and dozens are killed or when people are flooded out of their homes and lose a great deal of their possessions...

on a related topic, yes, insurance does cover losses in many cases, but does not cover all the costs and many people are without insurance or underinsured...also god forbid anyone make an insurance claim of any type in this country because in most cases your premiums will rise by a ridiculous amount...i know insurers take great financial risks but they also penalize customers when they make a claim...what about the premiums people have been paying for years without a claim, doesn't that count for something?....in a way it's such a racket i'm shocked that it's not controlled by organized crime

yes, in this current situation people and governments in a large number of countries are pledging money and aid on a scale never seen before, but americans are always at the forefront in providing humanitarian aid around the globe and are rarely the recipients of foreign aid when a distaster strikes within our borders....

pin boy

Posted by: BradIL

Excellent post pin boy.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by rtking
Hi Brian,

Actually, the US has pledged $350 Million in aid to the disaster victims. (It was originally $35MM, but increased to $350 a day later. This is almost all of the International Disaster Relief Fund's budget (of $384MM) allocated by the US Government.

Bob

Along the vein of pin-boy's post, I find it a little bit troubling that the US would donate this kind of money when just a few months ago the Island nation of Haiti was virtually leveled and we offered them a whopping $60,000 to help rebuild

Posted by: Jutman

Yes, there is other places around the world who need help. In my country a nation wide collection late january has been cancelled, instead a collection for Asia/eastafrica is reinstated.

I just saw picture from Abraham Lincoln, the carrier who has arrived to Indonesia. Its nice to see military units being used for this.

Yesterday, Sweden had a collection at TV, actually 2 channels/2 collections. They colleced 44 mill. USD in a polulation of 9 million.

Our PM in his new year speech removed ALL politicals, due to respect. The Queen has normally the most important Taffel (dinner) today, but has been cancelled.

I had unfortunately no chance to follow, my neighboring countries, but believe something like that has happen.

---
Why others dont help USA when they have natural disasters? USA is a rich country who can take care ofthemselves.

Posted by: Pin Boy

brian,

i have great respect for your knowledge as a professor of economics...i have no such expertise, just my personal viewpoint of the economic conditions of the country in which i live...the american middle class is being squeezed tighter and tighter by increased property taxes and health insurance premiums, among other things...many people are underemployed as formerly well paying manufacturing jobs are disappearing...my layman's guess is that ross perot was correct over ten years ago when he said that NAFTA (north american free trade agreement) would create a giant sucking sound that would symbolize the loss of american jobs to oversea employers....from my point of view as a school teacher, i have witnessed school districts with great increases in the number of families who qualify for free or reduced lunch prices for their children based on family income levels...i do believe some of this can be traced to the number of divorced families and unmarried parents whose economic situation almost always worsens when a family splits and a mother and father are trying to maintain two separate households rather than a single household supported by two married people committed to their children and family...also many people create their own money problems by living beyond their means and that has also created some of the personal financial problems of americans

but the perception that some foreigners may have that the streets of america are paved in gold is quite erroneous and the us government and its citizens do not have unlimited economic resources

pin boy

Posted by: Jutman

Pin boy

I am am aware of all that you write. But it still not change the fact, that USA as a country is rich, compare to countries like Sri Lanka.

In ½ hour ago, I saw that the PM of Thailand don't want financial aid, which make big sense, since Thailand is a country who is doing well.

Posted by: Pin Boy

brian,

what you report about the $ collected by the swedes is remarkable...i understand that possibly 2-3 thousand swedes were killed in the tsunami...is that correct?

and one terrible aspect of all of this is that these countries are located in such tropical paradises (from an aesthetic viewpoint)...my first awareness of sri lanka comes from the early 1980's videos by the british musical group duran duran...a few of their most popular and photographically beautful videos were shot in sri lanka...such a shame that some of the most beautiful places on earth are also home to some of the poorest people

ovet the years i would notice in the newspapers stories about the civil strife and violence in sri lanka and think how horrible it is that such a beautiful island would have such difficulties and atrocities

pin boy

Posted by: ConnerVT

It's such a shame that in giving human aid, so much politics gets thrown around. Even Jutman began this thread trying to throw politics into the issue, using his same old "per capita" argument.

The problem with the "per capita" measurement, is that assumes that all aid comes from government or quasi-government sources. It doesn't account for American businesses contributions, or American business or individual contributions to international organizations.

For example, seven US pharmaceutical companies gave $2.2 billion USD in drugs, transportation, warehousing, etc. to fight HIV, Malaria, and a number of other ailments to people in Third World countries last year. Not discounted drugs, but flat out donations. The entire WHO (World Health Organization) budget is only about $1.6B USD.

Another interesting political twist is that the Sri Lanka government has refused any assistance from Israel.

Posted by: Jutman

Conner

To do it per capita, is the only way to show charity scale.

I post this to hear from Russia, Ukraine and so what they are doing.

But its been clear, thats I am not welcome hear here. America is living at an islands and the american way is the only way.

Posted by: Pin Boy

brian, you know that's not true...you're a great contributor and helpful resource to this forum

pin boy

Posted by: ConnerVT

Oh, PB, let him go. He's more melodramatic than a schoolgirl. He's threatened to leave before, just so everyone could stroke his ego to stay. Sheesh...

In truth, his posts are usually either flames against Americans, or trolling for an American to rise to his bait. I, for one, would not care if the doorknob hit him in the backside when he left the room.

Posted by: Jutman

I did'nt say I was leaving.

Anti-american, sorry dude. . If I was anti-american I would not even use time a great site like this.

Instead I wrote that its amazing that US corporation gave more than 200 mill. and USS A.Lincoln do a great job in Aceh (if you read between the lines).

I started this thread, so show respect to the victims and honour every single country, company and individuals who do an effort, one way in another.
The numbers, was to show a link between victims and donation.

That I am not welcome here. I will translate: I will be selective in the future, what to write and comment specific persons comments.

Posted by: mria

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
Oh, PB, let him go. He's more melodramatic than a schoolgirl. He's threatened to leave before, just so everyone could stroke his ego to stay. Sheesh...

In truth, his posts are usually either flames against Americans, or trolling for an American to rise to his bait. I, for one, would not care if the doorknob hit him in the backside when he left the room.

Please highlight for me what is offensive about his post.
He just mentioned some figures about the donations, and suddenly everyone got defensive and started attacking him.

Why does God allow disasters like the tsunami to happen? Why isn't aid getting there sooner, and why is it that the only organisations that are really doing anything are the charities (red cross, oxfam etc)? Where is the UN? Why is one half of the world so rich and the other half so poor? Could this have been prevented if Asia had the money for early warning systems? Why is it that the earthquake disaster that killed 50, 000 people in Iran last year hardly got a mention in the news--is it because the tsunami covers such a large geographical area, or is it really because so many Westerners were affected, and we rate our own kind differently?

At least the outpouring of aid restores my faith in humanity, and if any slither of hope comes from this, it is that the world is united a little bit more than it was before, in its attempts to help the victims.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by mria
Please highlight for me what is offensive about his post.
He just mentioned some figures about the donations, and suddenly everyone got defensive and started attacking him.

You need to look at the history of his posts, not just this one. The same theme emerges again and again. If your interested, you can reread many of the threads that have gone spinning out of control. I could not be bothered to do so.

Posted by: Jutman

Pinboy

I forgot to reply your to your question about Sweden.

- I just check the TV. Today the numbers of missing people has been reduced from aprrox. 3500 to 2900, but its still a data from many sources.

In Denmark, the police took over and soon the numbers started to go down, especially when they publicite the names of the missing people. Some were actually ok, and got home. Others were registred twice, especially children there was reported missing in both the fathers and mothers name.
So from missing 390, its now 'only' 97. I hope something like this will happen in Sweden and other countries.

About the collection, it was actually a little higher. The last number was 5,5 million USD higher.

To explain it. As I wrote, I had 3 connections to Thailand, even in my family and so many Scandinavians has. So private sportclubs, even a hobo shop donate money, a family who has got their trip cancelled, donated all the 3100 USD the tickets cost.
In Finland several towns cancelled all fireworks new year evening.

I posted to this, to hear how its done in other countries. As Pinboy wrote he also donated money.

One last comment: 4 of the Danes who was missing 10 hours ago, live in USA in San Francisco.

Posted by: Khashyar

The tsunami was a terrible tragedy...

I actually have a college classmate of mine who owns a scuba diving business in southeastern Thailand (where the tsunami struck), and I also have a couple of friends who have vacationed in the exact area where the tsunami struck in Thailand.

It's hard to comment on such a disaster....

I just read a story on the CNN news website about a family dog in Sri Lanka that pulled a 9 year-old boy by his shirt out of his hut and was nipping him to push him to run up a hill to avoid the tsunami... really amazing...

There are incredible stories that arose from what happened.

Khashyar

P.S... by the way, I read that there are thousands of Americans still missing and may have been killed in the "storm."

Posted by: Vyesna

I don't think that there will be a shortage of money in the short term-- the initial figures pledged may have been on the low side only because the full scale of the disaster did not emerge for a few days. The real problem is coordination and that depends a lot on the local people as well. However, I'm sure the organizations who regularly work in those countries will be able to eventually sort things out.

I agree that the current U.S. administration's attitude towards international cooperation is often lacking, although I think it is focusing on this pretty well because of the scale, as would any administration. The real question will be in a year or two-- whether the aid is still flowing and people have been able to rebuild and whether the richer countries, including the better off countries in the region (like India) contribute and cooperate to build an early warning system for the Indian Ocean like there is in the Pacific. That will be the ultimate test of who is serious about helping the people of the region try to avoid such a disaster in the future.

Posted by: BradIL

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mria: Why is it that the earthquake disaster that killed 50, 000 people in Iran last year hardly got a mention in the news--is it because the tsunami covers such a large geographical area, or is it really because so many Westerners were affected, and we rate our own kind differently?

Mria if you are referring to the earthquake in Bam, Iran, it was covered pretty well. But I have to say that trying to get video from that region for TV news stories became difficult because Iranian authorities were not the most cooperative.

Posted by: BradIL

I don't mean to be saracastic--- BUT

with all the money flowing into this region, good, services, etc., I hope it reaches people who need it & doesn't disappear--- perhaps in someone's pocket.

I worry that the management structures to appropriate the money are lacking in these situations.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Brad, you mean like giving your money to the U.N., so it will be handled like the Oil For Food program?

Currently, so much money is being donated, that Doctors Without Borders has made a request for people not to send them any more money, they already have more than they can currently spend in support of this disaster.

What's needed more is the mobilization of resources, such as President Bush sending the military hospital ship USNS Mercy to the area.

Posted by: Jutman

I have to agree with Conner here.

There is plenty of money now (at paper). The problem is logistics and lack of transportations units.
This is where USA is doing a great job, by using a carrier and its choppers.

In news, around the world there has been a presentation of former President Bush and Clinton as fund-raisers. Its impressive.

- The biggest problem is that many countries give promisses to aid, but not really pay it when it come to that. Thats where private donation is better.

Since the first post, the numbers of donation around the world has skyrocket.

Posted by: Menehune

I had stopped coming to this site b/c it's just one big American bashing site spearheaded by jutman and other europeans,I came to retrieve someones icq and saw jutman's post.

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
It's such a shame that in giving human aid, so much politics gets thrown around. Even Jutman began this thread trying to throw politics into the issue, using his same old "per capita" argument.

I would have to agree with conner. It saddens that it took a great disaster like this to bring attention to this part of the world. I have my roots in SE Asian, my mother's side of the family is from SE Asian and I often travel to this part of the world not just for vacation and business but also also to build schools and immunized children. Asia is afterall my area of expertise.

What sickens me is that Eurpeans like jutman are using this tradagy to play the game of one-upmanship, "we've giving this much but americans only gave this much". The only reason europeans are concerned with the region is b/c so many lost their lives while vacationing thailand. I don't see the same hoopla when the easternside of SE Asia, like cambodia, loas, and vietnam gets flooded on a yearly basis and thousands are displaced and died in the flooding. The european hipocrisy makes me want to hurl, europeans are using this disaster to play the great humanitarian. First with Schroeder's comment that the west should suspend or write-off loans to eliviate the poverty in the region. These same vacationers have seen the poverty in the region while vacation there and where were they then. I didn't see any as I continued my charitable campaign for the past 10 years. And let's not forget that it was the Europeans (french, british, dutch, spanish, and portuguese) who put the region into poverty in the first place as they colonized the region so they can rape and pillage the area of natural resources

And now Germany is actively campaigning in Kobe to build an early tsunami warning system designed by German scientists, while side-lining Japan and the US, with silly text messaging via mobile phones and e-mails as outlined by the German Research Minister Edelgard Bulmahn. Hello stupid woman, there is a reason why we used the Japanese word tsunami and not german. Most people in the region don't have indoor plumbing much less electricity. The only people she will be helping are europeans vacationing there who can afford a mobile phone and a computer further segregrating the have's from the have-not's.

But hey, if Germany wants to build a better mousetrap in which they have no experience and sideline Japan and the US (esp Hawaii), who are the most experienced b/c we are constantly threaten by tsunamis.. then go for it but do it right.. don't use this disaster to play politik like what conner stated above.