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Why I am here !
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Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Hi all,

I just want to say that this is a great board and I knew alot of what I was reading on the marriage agency sites was propaganda and I wanted to be informed.

That said I want to say a little about myself and ask you all what you think about me and my desire to meet a FSU woman, if its mostly based on fact or stereotype.

I am an American 30 years of age. Was with one woman that i loved for 9 years 7 of those years ,married. After the divorce I took inventory of who and what I was and who and what i wanted to spend my life with. I started to work out and I went back to school. After I finish my 2 year transfer degree I am moving out of state to work for my mother and continue at a University. Although I would not consider myself the most stable person now as I spend a great deal of time in school and not at work. I am extremely stable in other ways, I do no drugs. I do not smoke or drink. I don't take any sort of crazy risks.

1. the very most important thing to me above all else is HONESTY. I can handle any truth, but I can handle no lies.

2. most important thing to me is that my significant other is my friend, my BEST FRIEND.

3. I want children and I want them within 4 years. No matter how many times i search american adds not many woman put in their that they want to have children. I get the impression that most young girls have kids because they just didn't use protection, and most older woman with young kids found a sperm donor. I see th lack of male -female necessity in this country to be the reason for this. You don't need a man except for sperm and some extra cash. Many american woman downplay the role of the father and well we have double the prison population of any other country nuff said. So i fear having a child with a woman from America or at least any i have met in my 30 years on this rock.

4. I want a woman that will not compete with me. I feel that our culture casues too much competition between us all and definately too much in relationships. I have read some views on this that capitalism is the source of this as its teaches competition. I believe Marx theorized that the truly monogamous relationship would not happen ever in capitalism. Regardless I dont want it. To this end i do not want an unequal relationship meaning I do not want to be superior to a woman. I feel at this time that the only way to accomplish this is to have different more traditional roles where you each have a role and thereby cause necessity to each other by each other. And whenever I point this out I get called a sexist. Well I do not believe that I am at all. If i thought that a woman would ever stay with a guy that stayed home and cleaned i would try it in a second. That said I want my role as provider I will do whatever it takes to fulfill that role if the woman i was with would do what it took to make me feel aprriated in this role. If it means the majority of housework and cooking etc then thats what i want, but i will not refer to it as womans work just that i feel its important for each partner to have roles. And it seems to me that In our time men and woman are confused about their roles. My x wife would balk and scream bloody murder if i asked her to do anything that was concerdered traditionally a womans job, but then turn around antd tell me to take out the garbage.

I have talked alot to my mother as she is like the woman I want. I have asked her if living with my step father has caused her to feel oppressed, and asked her if i am wrong for wanted a woman like her. She seems to agree with me an every point and tells me that she does not feel in any way oppressed. She tells me that when she cleans the house she takes pride in it each nd every day my step Father comes home, and she sees his smiling face when he looks at her.

So the reason that I was drawn to the FSU women is that I hear that they want to have kids (in fact i read somewhere that its actually thought to be like a status if you can afford to actually stay home and have children) , And i see them based again on what i have read as less materialistic and less competitive (i think these two things go hand in hand).

HONESTY and FRIENDSHIP i do not believe will be any more or less likely regardless of the country, but if i am wrong let me know.

opps i reread my post and forgot to say i wanted an attractive woman, I do believe that thsi s easier to find in FSU not so much based on my perception of the marriage agencys i know that they are going to show me the best looking woman, but on the fact that census says we are a fat ass nation. I work out I want a woman that loosk good too. and i am not sex addict but when i have sex i want a girl thats attractive.

So am I off base in thinking that these qualities would be easier to find in a FSU woman ?

Posted by: sidney

I would have to agree with much of what you said. This was also a reason why I looked to the FSU along with dating many of the wrong women in America. You seem to know what you want and should do well going there. I wish you the best of luck and it is luck as much as anything in finding the right one. There is much info that should well prepare you.
Sid

Posted by: Jutman

Hi

Seems you have good intention. Just be aware, that you can acare women in the FSU away if you want many kids. Its normal to have 1. maybe 2 kids, but seldom more.

So a small advice: take it easy on that. Of couse, you don't write that you want a football team, but basically let her come to you, and see that all will be okay and the money to give the kids a good life is present.

So bon voyage with your love trip.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

You don't need a man except for sperm and some extra cash.

Excuse me?

Quote:

Many american woman downplay the role of the father and well we have double the prison population of any other country nuff said. So i fear having a child with a woman from America or at least any i have met in my 30 years on this rock.

Yes, American women are to blame for the large prison population in the US. So who, by this logic, is to blame for the large prison population in Russia?

Quote:

in fact i read somewhere that its actually thought to be like a status if you can afford to actually stay home and have children) , And i see them based again on what i have read as less materialistic and less competitive (i think these two things go hand in hand).

All I can say is, don't believe everything your read. The majority of Russian women do NOT want to be housewives and just stay home with the kids. Most of them are very career minded, educated, and ambitious. And I would actually say, on average, RW tend to be more materialistic than AW, which I imagine is the result of living in poorer society where not as many people are able to easily afford consumer goods. So the desire to acquire actually grows. And, in the professional world, they tend to be VERY comptetitive. Not so much in the personal realm though, which is what you're probably referring to here.

Well, I do wish you good luck and would advise to read some of the threads on this forum. There really are a lot of false stereotypes and misinformation circulating around there. A good place to start (in my opinion) is the following article which was written by a Russian woman married to an American man. There's a lot of truth in what she writes.

It's called "False and unrealistic expectations as a road to a failed Russian-Western marriage: a married Russian woman's thoughts about international marriage."

Here's the link:http://www.russianmeetingplace.com/...ns_marriage.htm

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

The majority of Russian women do NOT want to be housewives and just stay home with the kids. Most of them are very career minded, educated, and ambitious. And I would actually say, on average, RW tend to be more materialistic than AW, which I imagine is the result of living in poorer society where not as many people are able to easily afford consumer goods. So the desire to acquire actually grows. And, in the professional world, they tend to be VERY comptetitive. Not so much in the personal realm though, which is what you're probably referring to here.

As Russian man, I completely agree with Jill !

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Well if the majority ofthem do not want to be housewives then why do they put it in their adds ?

What is a guy supposed to do if he wants to have kids and to clarify i want 2 tops, 1 is fine. I want to be more then a sperm donor and i fear that with the lack of nessity created by our nations wealth, such things as divorce happen more readily. I am not saying I believe that 2 peopel should stay together if there is violence or any such thing like that. I just marriage today as somethign you do becasue you feel like it and divorce something you do becasue you don't feel like it. Where is the loyalty, where is the honesty, I fear i is only borne from nessiacity.

And if i am wrong and Rusiian woman don't want to have kids and are more materialistic then american woman , then what am i supposed to do ?

I feel that my only coarse left would be to buy and egg and have a serogate mother, or else i run a huge risk of having a kid with someone that doesn't need me after I impregnant her and well that seems to be how alot of woman think.

I did not mean to blame the prison population only on women. But more by the fact that the culture is a culture of want and not need. And this causes in my opinion people to not look to the future, why should i have a 401k if the government will take care of me ? This is an attitude that carrys over to having kids as well and both men and women in this culture don't see that both parents are needed. The reason I choose to use specifically women in my first post was that more often then not its them that have the power to decide if they stay with the man or not. If she wants the money and not the guy well its a easier decision if the government will assist her with taking the money. Why do his laundry if you dont have too ?

And I have read some posts from russian marriage angecy that i had to translate but it talked about how you don't need to worry once you get visa if you have a kid and want to leave the man becasue governemnt will help you.

I hope I didnt offend anyone my purpose was to tell you what i think and why and to be corrected.

If the latter 2 posters were insinuating that all woman are the sam then whats the point for any of us to look to the FSU ?

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

oh and one last thing. I do not expect any woman I marry to be strictly a housewife. I sjut think that its better to have roles. If she works I would like it to be suplemental nd not interfer with raising children. I dont want my kdis rasied by a TV, or a daycare. I want them to be taught and have values oftheir parents that brought them into this earth, becasue I assume that those peopel upon marriage thought that the other person would make a good parent, therefore a good teacher.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

I give you one very curious example...
Here:

http://www.russiansabroad.com/Confe...d=1104&confId=1

http://www.russiansabroad.com/Confe...d=1087&confId=1

http://www.russiansabroad.com/Confe...d=1074&confId=1

American women quarrel very badly about Russian men... Oh, they blame these miserable men with so deadly sins!!!

But... Just read carefully... Nobody of these ladies - NOBODY and NEVER! - blames any man that he... does not earn enough money!

That idea simply cannot come to American girl's mind...
And, if you can read Russian and go to any Russian board, - for example here:

http://www.cofe.ru/Apple/vb/forumdi...p?s=&forumid=20

- you will see that the FIRST blame what Russian ladies do against men (either Russian or whatever) is... that men do not earn enough money!

Posted by: andreas

Quote:

[

- you will see that the FIRST blame what Russian ladies do against men (either Russian or whatever) is... that men do not earn enough money!

[/B]

Yes but is this because the man does NOT WANT earn enough money or simply because of his situation he can not earn enough. I feel that as a provider you will find a man will do the best he can given his situation.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

thank you princetonLion for showing me that sight and those links.

I agree with what you say, but at the same time i would bet that 99% of American women already know that a Russian man from Russia, is not going to be makign what an American does.

Its odd that you link these becasue now I am worried more about the Idea of finding someone from the FSU more then I ever have been.

I cannot tolerate cheating, lieing, of stealing at all.

So I want some people from Russia or know it well to answer me are these posts stereotypical ?

Or is the Russian culture causing people to cheat more then in America ?

I cannot fault any woman for using god givin gifts to survive, so my question is if she were to come here where you doesn't need to screw everyone to make it would she continue to do it ?

To me thats the difference between morals and survival

My X cheated becasue she jsut felt like it , to me thats completely selfish.

But i cant speak for a lady thats making below poverty, its still a moral issue but can you expect peopel to be moral when they are trying to survive ?

Posted by: Voyageur

The main thing to always remember, is that RW and AW are simply women. Culture may play a part in the women's outlook, but to believe what the marriage agency "hypes" about traditional values of Russian women is really a bad idea.

In my experience - just as there are wonderful FSU women, there are many wonderful American women. And the reverse is also true.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

I am begining to think this as well which makes me wonder why anyone would go through all the stress and expensive involved in Ld relationships etc.

Being the researcher that I am Last night and today I opened my ICQ and started looking up Russian woman in the age group of 18-28, and found 5 of them that were between 19 and 25. I asked them several questions along the lines of.

What is your like like in Russia ?

Do you feel you have opportunities in Russia ?

Is it true that many young Russian women are marrying "westerners" to get out of Russia?

Sorry about not spell checking this, I am beign lazy ;-)

Do you want children ?

If you do want children, whats stopping you right now from having them ?

ETC. eTC.

Now it may seem odd, but i found these 5 woman to actually perpetuate some of the stereotypes. But not the worst one abotu comign for a visa and not love.

One thing tht I havent read alot about is how many women get student or work visas.

Of the 5 i talked to

1 had been to the US
1 is coming in the summer
2 other want to come
and the last seemed not to have no desire at all to come here or anywhere else outside her country.

This last one also seemed to think that woman leaving Russia, for the west was more or less a lie, and that it didnt happen. Which I thought was wierd, since the other 4 not only believed it but knew of atleast one person in their life that had alredy done so.

the 1 that had been to the USA , was here on student visa and was married to a man in florida. But was in Russia, she said that she loved this man alot and did not marry him for money or wealth. She said that she could still be in USA but choose to go home for a few months. I asked her why she would want to return home if she was married and loved her husband, then she responded that she wanted to make sure her love was real. I was a little confused but women often do that to me.

The 1 coming to America this summer is coming on a work visa, and is going to be stayng with other Russians, here in america. I talked to her the most of any of them in fact we talked for hours. She says she has a boyfriend now in Russia, and that when she talked to him about applying for a work visa he did not approve at all. I asked her if he was afraid she would come her and marry someone and stay. She responded that he was not afraid she would marry anyone to stay, but that she would stay. (I guess if 3 million mexicans can do it a year so can Russians ?) She didn't say how she would stay illegally or other visa types etc and I didnt ask.

Of the 2 others 1 wanted to come to America, she didn't really specofy to stay forever or not, but she did say she wanted to work.

And the last wanted to go anywhere hat she could have opportunitys, did not seem to preference America at all.

I asked them all if thye would marry to stay here, and not one said they would, in fact they all said they would not.

I asked them all if thye were to come here if they would hope to work or if they would hope not to work and have children.

3 of them stated that they wanted children in the future. Not one said she would marry to come here for the purpose of having children.

And only one said that if she came here that she would plan on relying on a husband to support her..

2 of them stated that thye felt there was no good Russian men capable of supporting them as their first reason to want to leave.

The other 2 that stated they wanted to go abroad state the financial opportunity as the first reason.

I said to all of them.

"Don't you think its sad that woman in Russia leave to go to the west for better opportunities for both men and for money. And that men from the west are looking in Russia for woman, becasue they are not satisfied with women in thier own country ?"

All of them said yes

None of them said they would leave to go to any other country if they had better opportunities. Except to travel.

1 of them asked about me and my work and as soon as I said I was in school, she asked me if i was 30 and I said yes. She disappeared ;-)

Of the 2 that I told i wanted to one day see Russia, they were both supprised that I would want to go there.

The one thats coming here in the sumemr told me that I should come there and see all the beautiful girls. She told me that her Russian friends from America have sent her pictures and she sees how many of us are overwieght especially the women.

All in all it was great to talk to them with messanger. I think you can learn alot mroe then forums. Not saying I dont totally value these forums I do but its good to get the man on the street sort of feel that you cna get when you actually talk to peopel over there.

After talkign to them and all of them having been done with college or of the 2 that were at a univesity and working at the same time. I felt extremely lazy.

I wonder if the best part about marrying a woman from the FSU would be so that she can tell me all the time how lazy I am and get my ass in gear. ;-)

Posted by: searcher

PrincetonLion,

I read throught those threads.... it seems many people there have some issues. I noticed Madeline in particular had a lot of negative experiences and because of this she had a lot of negative things to say....

She and others made a lot of generalizations. Something to becareful of...

You can't assume all people are the same simply because they come from the same geographic location.

Everyone knows right from wrong.....
I had to deal with some issues myself but right is right and wrong is wrong thats really all there is to it....

It is just a matter of finding the right person and not just any person.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally posted by Voyageur

In my experience - just as there are wonderful FSU women, there are many wonderful American women. And the reverse is also true.

Exactly! And this is true for men as well!

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by ASoulmate4U

3. I want children and I want them within 4 years. No matter how many times i search american adds not many woman put in their that they want to have children. I get the impression that most young girls have kids because they just didn't use protection, and most older woman with young kids found a sperm donor. I see th lack of male -female necessity in this country to be the reason for this. You don't need a man except for sperm and some extra cash. Many american woman downplay the role of the father and well we have double the prison population of any other country nuff said. So i fear having a child with a woman from America or at least any i have met in my 30 years on this rock.

?

Interesting... I guess that all the Babies 'R Us and Buy Buy Babies and Baby Gaps and Baby Places and Toys 'R US and every other children's/baby store flourishing in every suburb and mall across the country cater exclusively to a) midgets (and all those couples in their 30s looking quite affluent pushing them together around must be their personal assistants and midgets must need assistants of both sexes for some reasom) b) RW who married AM and c) really wealthy teenagers. Or maybe those affluent looking couples in their 30s are just AW who hired some guy to walk around the baby store with them so that no one would guess their terrible secret-- that their child is the product of a sperm bank. Oh well, they shouldn't worry-- since the only women having babies with other men must be young girls (I'm guessing you mean teenagers more or less) and every other woman is going to a sperm bank, it will seem normal pretty soon and they won't have to spend extra money hiring "husbands" (and I'm sure they abuse these hired actor-drone types most horribly since all AW after a certain age hate men and don't need them except for occasional sex and as sperm donors) anymore because it will be out of the closet that everyone's doing it.

Posted by: Vyesna

Oh yeah-- and all those couples on "Baby Story" with planned pregnancies-- of course hired, because happy AW-AM couples in their late 20s and 30s planning on having babies together are myths. They really have great make up artists to make those women's bellies look so realistically pregnant and cover those babies who aren't really theirs coming out from between their legs with such realistic blood and vernex and such realistic looking fake uteri they created for the fake c-sections on the show...amazing what they do with technology these days.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Well Obviously peopel are having kids and no where are they all planned or all unplanned.

My main point here was that you don't see many AW with adds around that say things like. "must want children" "I want children" etc. More often then not when it is included in the add its becasue its a fill in the blank from a drop down menu.

So i ask you all if we are to say that as many AW women and RW want children then why don't we have the same percentage putting it in their adds ?

It sujests to me either, less are planned. Or why even ask the guy becasue I don't plan on staying with him longer then I feel like it and I don't need him anyways. I can get welfare or find another man etc. To sum it up the message I get is less of a planned family unit.

Tell me where I am wrong or explain to me why AW don't stick this stuff in their adds please.

Posted by: myshka

I cant explain why more AW dont have about children, but I CAN explain why it is in UW/RW ads. It is because most (not ALL ) but MOST ads are NOT written by the individual woman who the ad is for, they are written by the agency!!! The agency is a business who wants to make money so they found a formula and stick with it. That is why they perpetuate the myth that all Russian men are drunks, and no good. That is why they write ads focusing on what sells the best. Sorry, but true.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Myshka That would not suprise me at all.

However, one marriage agency site i visited, talks up the traditional values thing. Then It has a link to the Russian end of the site in which it is geared for the women to see it.

Upon translating it i foudn that it says that an America man will not be happy with you jsut doing housework becasue it is so much more convient in USA with modern appliances, he will expect you to work.

So whats the point of puting in the adds that the women want to have children, then tellign them the men will expect them to work ?

If they believe that we want them to work why dont they put in the add "This woman will come to the USA ready to wrok her ass off for you" ?

Again I am not doubting you it just seems contridictory.

Maybe the agencys are so smart that they figure that having children will appeal to men. but that its a fleeting fancy and by the time their lady arrives they will want them to work ?

Of all my female friends of which I have about 10. Alll but maybe 2 say they want children "one day" "if it happens it happens" etc. Only 1 actually has a plan, and that plan iis "as soon as I get marreid I am having children" None of them seem to have even concidered the financial obligation, in any dort of detail. No savings accounts etc. Jsut I have a job now and I live paycheck to paycheck.

It seemed that of the few RW i talked to, half of them wanted children, but can't afford it.

Every single one of them even the 25 year old lived at home.

I wonder if this is why its in the adds as well ?

If you can't afford to live on yur own, do you really have any business bringing kids nto the world ?

Maybe I answered my own question ?

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

A Soul Mate - I think that the ads that you have read are written by the agencies in order to attract men who for one reason or another do not have a partner in thier own country.I know they are written in order to generate business by MA's - and this is the only reason. I think that all women are different and only by getting to know someone will you know if they are really your sould mate or not ( BTW , when I went to the fsu the first time and met a woman there and used the experession soul mate the lady laughed and asked me what I was talking about as she had never heard of this expression - maybe it is a western invention ? )
I think also , RW/UW are more materialisticlaly minded because if you visit these countries you will see at first hand how the economy is faring.
In my country , UK, no women I have ever met has ever said that having a baby was the first priority - I think this idea that RW/UW are somehow different from AW/ English women is absurd and it gets many men into very costly relationships from which they emerge wiser and altogether changed ( grown up ). My gf who is a woman from the Ukraine never said that having a baby was first on her list - if anything it was finding someone she was happy with and who was happy with her. as well as improving her life .
I do not know where the data comes from regarding the sperm bank ( I do not want to know- honest) , but in the main reason women in my country delay starting a familly is that the cost of living is so expensive in UK eg child care for one child per week is £100 or £ 400 per month ( approx $ 600) so without an extended familly of grandparents it can be difficult. Secondly, women earn the same if not more than men in many jobs so again , raising a familly can be delayed till late 20's mid 30s or even early 40's.
Rattle

Posted by: sidney

I have a different take on this. Years ago when I was dating in the FSU it was a question I posed to many. Do you want children?How many? Every one and I spoke to which were dozens said that children and family were important. I also saw many older american adopting in Moscow. Take a trip to the embassy and you'll see it too. There are many reasons for adopting some I believe are putting off family for many years and then not being able to conceive. I hear excesssive weight can contribute, age, disease which happens over time as well as many other factors. Talking to women from both countries gave me a different mindset over the children and family question.
Sid

Posted by: Vyesna

The original post was ridiculous in its reading which is why I put a ridiculous reply.

In all seriousness, I think probably one reason AW don't put in their ads that they want children is because they are afraid of scaring men. Let's face it, a lot of guys are scared off by women who immediately start talking about long term plans like marriage and children. It's such a cliche in fact that it was one of the "don't do this" dating cliches in "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days". I imagine that the agencies working with AW would tell them not to put that in their ads. Conversely, the agencies working with RW might tell them to put that in their ads because it ads to the "traditional" image.

I think there are very few women on the face of this earth who don't want children-- it's just when and how vary from woman to woman, just as it varies from man to man. The only way you can know how a woman feels about children or what her real plans are is by getting to know her.

The only big difference I think between RW and AW on this point (taking the two as groups) is that RW, especially outside Moscow and St Petersburg, are socially pressured into having children early and there are still a lot of people over there who think women can't have children over 30. In a lot of places a woman who is divorced with a child in her mid to late 20s or in her 30s or even who had a child but never married is in a higher social status than a woman who has never had a child (whether married or not). This of course is also somewhat true in rural areas in America and there are places in America where women are pressured to have children early too but it is still much more widespread over there. I would also say getting pregnant "accidentally" and shotgun weddings are still more widespread over there than here (though they still happen here a lot too, especially in rural areas like the one I grew up in).

There has been a lot of discussions on this on Russian women's forums-- a lot of RW who come here at a younger age have the social pressure to have kids lifted and then put it off at about the same rate as AW do, or even longer.

But seriously, I think the average age for AW to have kids in the US is still well under 30. I participate in a group of AW focused on childbirth issues and pretty much everyone had their first child under the age of 30.

As for adoption in Russia-- first of all, many many Americans who adopt in Russia have already had their own children naturally and for whatever reason have decided to adopt additional children. My husband in fact wants to adopt from Russia even though we haven't had any fertility problems (thus far-- there is always the chance of secondary infertility) -- for some people, it's just a sense that they want to help in that way. In fact, two out of the three couples I know of who have adopted there already had their own children. If you have your own biological children, you can pretty much forget about adopting small children in the U.S. (it's already hard even if you don't have your own biological children), so you go abroad. I also knew a family growing up who had four of their own daughters but decided to adopt an additional daughter from Korea.

Secondly, female infertility is not always connected to age although no doubt trying to have a first child after the age of 35 is typically harder (and trying to have a child after 35 is harder for men too). In fact, female infertility is more often able to be addressed by drugs and medical procedures than male infertility, so assuming that all of those couples adopting are doing so because the AW waited too long to have kids is of course overlooking the fact that maybe they're adopting because the AM can't have kids and they don't want to use a stranger's sperm. Finally, one should bear in mind that abortion has typically been the main method of birth control in Russia (probably changing since the pill is more widely available now) and a lot of RW have become infertile or had childbearing related problems because of abortions-- so you might say that there are problems on both sides but for different reasons.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I know my X am I planned on having kids in the "future", then the "future" came and we found she could not have them without the help of drugs. We tried the drugs and this did not work. Then the next step was for them to extract the eggs from her and fertilize them and stick one back in there. ;-) Crude description know. My x was not willing to do this, at all. She cried and creid for years about not being ableto have kids although it was ossible. She was told by every specialist that the only problem with her was that they could not make the eggs pop out of the ovaries, but that there was no indication at all that her eggs were bad in any way. But she like didn't hear them and jsut assumed she would not be able to have them.

I sometimes wonder if this is why she got all weird and into things i will say are youthful. ie more concerts, clubbing, finding a new man that was 4 years younger, etc. ;-)

For me though it, very powerful to know first that she couldn't have them or so we though, and then to find that we could but she was not willing.

When I found out that she couldn't or so we thought at first. I was not so happy, I can say that it is a goal of mine to have children and has been for a long time. So when I heard this I was faced with, staying with my love, or leaving her to have children with someone else, or adobting them. I looked into fostering and adobting them, but the more I researched it the more she felt inadequate. The more she would feel she wasn't important etc. So i jsut gave up on it and figured I would never have them.

So now that I am no longer with her and looking tto the future, The ability and willingness of my next mate to haee children is paramount to me. I will not even date woemn that talk ngativily about hving children.

I jsut wanted to explain why it is that I seem to talk about children, whereas most men I bet reading this forum scratching there heads going "he actually WANTs children, HUH"

If its true that women are women no matter where they are from then it may be that I wont have any.

I know to much about human nature now and I know how prevalent it is for a pair bnd to break up after the youngest child is about 3 to 4 years of age. I do not want my child to be part of a mixxed flock of children I gre up in that and its not fun when all your sublings have differnt parents and some are rich some are poor etc. It makes for alot of fghts envy etc. I would jsut like to be with one woemn have kids with her and her alone and raise them till they are of age.

Maybe ill jsut go get a vasectomy ?

Posted by: Vyesna

I'm very sorry that happened to you. Infertility can be very traumatic for both parties. I imagine your ex was very depressed for a long time about this. Perhaps she felt her body was broken. Women who feel that way may be too afraid to face the constant roller coaster of hope and disappointment of artificial insemination and fertility drugs if she felt that she was broken and there was nothing anyone could do to "fix" her. Please keep in mind that 1) it sounds like her fertility was not age related but related to an ovulation issue which can affect women of any age (my friend had an ovluation problem and she was only 28) and 2) you can never be sure that your future mate is fertile until you start trying-- even if she has had a kid before. Secondary fertility happens-- so what are you going to do then? Basically, there's no insurance against this situation, even if you are sure your new mate wants to have kids right away. I guess the only thing you could do is ask if she's had the sort of diseases or accidents that might affect fertility (certain veneral diseases, accidents that might impact the reproductive organs), or uterine operations such as D&C following miscarriage, cesareans and abortions. But these are very personal questions and I don't know how you could go about asking them until you were really far along in the relationship, and even then, unless you saw her medical records, you could never really know. Additionally, if you were far along in the relationship and you asked her these questions and the answer was affirmative, would you really want to dump her just because she might have a higher chance of being infertile? You could talk about the possibility of adoption, etc. beforehand and explain what you've been through and that you would really want to adopt if there was a problem having more kids. Of course, the problem still is that people can never really know how they are going to react to a situation until they are in it. In short, there's no way you could pick a woman (no matter what country) and say-- if I marry her, we're definitely going to have kids. Your chances are pretty good with any given woman from any country under 40, however.

Like I said, I'm very sorry this happened to you. I'm sure your ex wife could have handled it better but it sounds like she suffered a lot, was very depressed and was never able to come to terms with it. I would guess her post divorce behavior is an attempt to avoid people who are "settled" and having children because it would only make her continue to feel defective. I'm sure she could have handled things better and probably needed some professional help, but do keep in mind that this is something that cuts women very deep (I imagine it does men who are infertile also) and is extremely hard to deal with.

Posted by: Vyesna

Oh, and by the way, on the roles issue-- my husband is a 36 year old RM and he works off and on as a contractor. He has been the primary caregiver to our son except when I was on maternity leave and between jobs. For the past three months he has stayed home with him exclusively and before that, when I was working my other job, exclusively cared for him in the evening when I frequently worked late. My check has always been the "bread" check that covers the family bills and although my husband doesn't want to only stay home, he has no problem with me making the main money in the household and taking care of the children together with me when I'm home (he doesn't just drop the baby and say you take care of it when I get home) and when I'm not home. He's also trying to get into a cycle of real estate buying and selling that will allow the kids (we intend to have at least two more) to spend time with him on the worksite when they're older (it's hard to get anything done with infants and toddlers). Yes, a lot of women and men would have issues with this situation-- but those issues are not "natural" or "genetic" they are socially based and can be overcome. Of my four closest friends from my old job-- in a NY law firm-- each made significantly more than her husband and although one kind of didn't like that because she wanted to stay home and couldn't, it hasn't been a big strain on the marriages and all of us have kids.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Vyesna I agree with everything you said, but my main concern is making sure that the women is willing to try to have kids soon. With my X we waited 8 years before we found out that she had these issues, or i should say till i found out she had these issues. if i wait 8 years again to try and cant. il be running out of time ;-)

And as far as the roles being reversed, this casued her major issues mor so then me. Thrtough most of the marriage I was the breadwinner. When I was injured she then looked for a better job and through experience and luck got a job that paid beyond the average for someone with her talents. After this happened, all of the sudden there was no joint account it was her money, there was no sharing or much of anything. And if i wanted somethign I had to basically pleaad a case on why I should be allowed to buy something. I was often guilty tripped by her for wanting things since I could not work. She slowly but surely took control of pretty much everything. She picked at me and was not supportive in the slightest, then she would yell that I wasn't a strong man. Which in turn made thigns worse and worse.

I do agree that it is possible for the roles to be reversed, but I will not say that its a good idea to not have roles, I feel both partners need somethign that they are special at and bring to the table.

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by ASoulmate4U
Vyesna I agree with everything you said, but my main concern is making sure that the women is willing to try to have kids soon. With my X we waited 8 years before we found out that she had these issues, or i should say till i found out she had these issues. if i wait 8 years again to try and cant. il be running out of time ;-)

And as far as the roles being reversed, this casued her major issues mor so then me. Thrtough most of the marriage I was the breadwinner. When I was injured she then looked for a better job and through experience and luck got a job that paid beyond the average for someone with her talents. After this happened, all of the sudden there was no joint account it was her money, there was no sharing or much of anything. And if i wanted somethign I had to basically pleaad a case on why I should be allowed to buy something. I was often guilty tripped by her for wanting things since I could not work. She slowly but surely took control of pretty much everything. She picked at me and was not supportive in the slightest, then she would yell that I wasn't a strong man. Which in turn made thigns worse and worse.

I do agree that it is possible for the roles to be reversed, but I will not say that its a good idea to not have roles, I feel both partners need somethign that they are special at and bring to the table.

I totally understand about timing-- we women usually are more in tune with our biological clocks! However, if you are 30 and your wife was about the same age as you, that means you started to try to have kids around 27-28 but married around 21-22? No offense, but not that women are really ready to have kids at 21 or 22. Some are, but most aren't. I myself wasn't ready until I was 27, and quite frankly I think most people are better off emotionally having kids no earlier than their mid-20s.

You are right to try and find a woman who wants kids soon and knows that for sure-- but the only way you can know is to get to know that woman well-- and ads in sites, be they here or there, are not going to help you do that. You need to either get on a plane and go over there and get to know someone well or try to do the same here.

As for your wife's behavior about work and money, I hate to break it to you, but that is in detail exactly the attitude of a lot of RW I have read on RW women's forums-- of course, there are RW who aren't like that and there are AW too. But I would say as a whole, and I have participated in forums with both American and Russian women where relationships are discussed in depth, AW are less likely to have a problem with having to support their husbands if things go bad than RW. And like I said, many of my attorney female friends make more money than their husbands and know they probably always will-- but they don't, for the most part, get bitterly angry at their husbands for not being more ambitious and trying to make more money so that they can work "for their soul" or just for personal fulfillment rather than having to be the supporter of the family. On RW forums the complaint I have heard over and over about AM husbands who turn out to be less ambitious and with fewer prospects and sometimes end up making less than their new RW wives-- "he's happy in his 'swamp', he doesn't want to improve himself and I do and I have no respect for that, he won't look for a better job, he won't move, etc. etc." Of course there are AW who share this same view. The trick is to get to know someone as well as you can and discuss these things before you get married. And just by letter isn't enough I don't think-- you have to spend time with them.

I'm not saying you won't find the right woman in Russia. But your particular concerns do not make me think you will necessary do better there than here. If you just want to try something different and are interested in Russia and Russian people, I think those are good reasons. But I'm sure you could find a nice girl who's willing to share the burden of family (and quite frankly, in my opinion it is both partners' responsibility to provide, how that responsibility is divided at any given point in time does not take away from the fundamental responsibility that both men and women have the responsibility for providing for the family-- that doesn't mean I don't think that women shouldn't stay home with the kids-- I think that's great-- but that doesn't mean that suddenly they have no such responsibility) and wants kids soon either here or there.

I think in any case, you should stick to girls over 25. Girls over 25 are generally more ready to have children (whatever lip service girls under 25 may give to it, I think the majority are not ready) and are generally more emotionally mature to handle the emotional strains of childbearing and raising.

Posted by: Jill

Yeah. What Vyesna said

And actually I really feel sorry for your ex (and for you as well). This is truly devasting news for a woman to receive. Yes, it is difficult for the man, but ultimately it is the woman who feels that it's her fault and that there is something fundamentally wrong with her. I don't know the stats, but I would not be surprised if break ups are very high as a result of one the partners finding out that he/she is infertile. I once read that the divorce rate is over 80% among couples who experience the death of a child. And really, I think this is almost similar.

And I hate to say this, but infertility is VERY high in Russia/Ukraine. The most obvious reason is having multiple abortions. I personally know several FSU women who are infertile as a result of this. I know one who was even warned by her doctor that if she had another abortion, she wouldn't be able to have children. She decided to risk it. Abortion is considered a normal birth control method in Russia/Ukraine, despite the fact that condoms, birth control pills, and a whole line of pharmatex products are readily available. Nevertheless...It is common and accepted to do. There is even a famous Ukrainian actress, Olga Sumskaya (she was in "Roksolana," "I'm a Doll," etc). She actually goes on TV to ADVOCATE having abortions. She's had 5 herself and expects to have more. It seems to me that I've read that the average Russian woman has something like 7 abortions in her lifetime...

Anyway, I don't want to get into a Pro-chioce/Pro-life debate here...

My point is that there is a lot of infertility as a result of having multiple abortions. In addition, STDs are frequently left untreated and preventative health care is almost non-existent. I have a friend whose (Ukrainian) wife had never been to a gynocologist in her life despite the fact that she was in her late 20s and had been married twice. Finally he conviced her to go and they found that she had the early stages of cervical cancer. They treated her with cryotherapy, but said the erosion was so extensive that it is unlikely that she would ever be able to conceive. She's a young, healthy woman and she had NEVER expected this (neither did her new husband). And it probably could have been prevented by having annual Pap smears, as is customary in the US, but not in the FSU.

So it's a very difficult issue...

Quote:

As for your wife's behavior about work and money, I hate to break it to you, but that is in detail exactly the attitude of a lot of RW I have read on RW women's forums

I could also give you many examples. This is actually why my brother in law's first marriage (to a Ukrainian woman) failed.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Sounds like my mother was right

She told me that she felt it was our moving to buying a house and the fact that my X, michelle could not easily concieve. ;-)

When my mother offered to give us 20k to help our downpayment she told me that it may end our realtionship. I thought she was crazy, ho could moving on in life casue a break up ?

There were other p[roblems leading into this as well, so it was not only a thing but a big thing.

To top it off michelles entire family has i would sound lacking ideass about marriage. Michelle often caught her mother or step-father on the couch with other people after she got home from school or on the weekends. One thanskgiving we went ot her mothers and she ignored as us she was havign a 3 some.

And when we got the loan etc to build the house it was her other that told her taht if she buys a house with me its jsut one more thing that will casue her to be stuck to me.

The whole time i thought it was the wedding vows.

I do feel alot for Michelle and this whole child thing , but the simple fact is she CAN have children. Well atleast no doctor has said anythign but that.

Not to stir up the abortion debate either but

If its so prevelent then is it wrong to ask it of women of the FSU ?

I mean here we don't ask becasue its personal and not PC, but if its PC there then is it like asking their wieght ?

If I for sure look into the FSU for a wife, I will want to know their position on this .

Posted by: povlhp

Denmark is the same as the US. Women here often runs through a series of shorter relationships (almost never marriages), and often picks one to be the father of her child, even if she knows it doesn't work.

And here they know pretty well about the protection, and all can afford it. Or they know what time of the month is safe, and plans doing it that way.

Those that really wants a lasting marriage and children are probably all married, which is one reason I look east. I don't like the many shorter relationships.

A local women never cares much avbout the money (apart from Bimbos), as we have no poverty, and she is usually doing well on her own.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Denmark is the same as the US. Women here often runs through a series of shorter relationships (almost never marriages),

Well, just for a counterpoint, see the article that Gino posted entitled "Russians Are Quickest to Marry and Divorce." Hard to say if that's really any better...

Posted by: povlhp

I guess the marriage is longer lasting than 3-24 months. 6-12 months are probably pretty normal.

One thing that is good at killing a marriage here in Denmark is people buying a house together. I know a few couples whose marriage (or paperless relationship) went bad after buying a house together. One part moving in with the other, both parties keeping their apartment doesn't seem so final, and does not result in it that often.

I think many things are the same around the world. When we had a school reunion a few years ago (around 18 years after leaving school ), most of my old class mates were married, and had been it forever. That is the advantage of living in a small town with little choice.

The 2 only childless singles were me and a girl both living in the big city. So the city is bad for marriage.