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The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian...
International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union. |
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KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Official results showed Ukraine's prime minister winning the country's bitterly fought presidential runoff, but the opposition candidate declared fraud and called his supporters into the streets Monday after observers said the vote did not meet international standards. Over 10,000 opposition supporters gathered in Kiev's main Independence Square, where candidate Viktor Yushchenko urged his backers to demonstrate against alleged vote rigging. "We will not leave this place until we win," Yushchenko, wearing a scarf in his campaign color, orange, told the crowd. "The people's will cannot be broken. People's votes cannot be stolen." Exit polls showed Yushchenko, a pro-Western reformer, winning Sunday's vote in contrast to the official results giving victory to Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych -- hiking tensions in a battle for the presidency that many from the start have feared could lead to violence. A prominent group of foreign observers said Monday that the vote did not meet international democratic standards. The joint mission -- representing the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, the European Parliament and NATO -- said they observed abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister, who has the support of the outgoing president Leonid Kuchma and the government of Russia, Ukraine's powerful neighbor. The observer group, which had denounced abuses in the election's first round, said authorities had failed to fix the flaws. "With an even heavier heart than three weeks ago, I have to repeat the message from the first round; this election did not meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections," said Bruce George, the team's leader. "The deficiencies have not been addressed. The abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister continued, as well as an overwhelming media bias in his favor," he said. With nearly more than 99 percent of precincts counted, Prime Minister Yanukovych had 49.42 percent, compared to Yushchenko's 46.69 percent, the Central Election Commission said. But an exit poll, conducted by anonymous questionnaires under a program funded by several Western governments, including the United States, gave Yushchenko 54 percent of the vote, with Yanukovych trailing with 43 percent. Another poll put Yushchenko ahead by 49.4 to 45.9 percent, the Interfax news agency reported. Yanukovych spokesman Stepan Havrysh criticized the exit poll results, calling them "incorrect, unscientific and even comical." Yushchenko said the opposition will stage a "threefold offensive" aimed at battling election fraud: demanding an emergency parliamentary session, setting up a protest tent camp in central Kiev and challenging suspected voting violations in the courts. Many tents were already up in central Kiev, blocking traffic. The protesters appeared prepared to heed Yushchenko's call to stay in Independence Square. Many said they were heading home to get warmer clothes and then return. Meanwhile, many cars driving by the election commission's headquarters honked their horns in a sign of protest. The Central Election Commission office was heavily guarded by riot police and several armored vehicles. Yushchenko's key ally, Yulia Tymoshenko, called on Ukrainians to begin a general strike. "Stop working, stop learning, make it all stop," she said. Some 5,000 students gathered in Lviv, an opposition stronghold in western Ukraine, to support Yushchenko and protest against election fraud. The election was seen as determining whether this ex-Soviet republic of 48 million tilts toward the West or its traditional patron, Russia. The bitter campaign also sparked fears that Ukraine could erupt into civil unrest as distrust in the government's ability to conduct a credible vote grew. Yushchenko foes claimed that the opposition gathering in the square could try to foment civil unrest with the aim of seizing power. "Let us negotiate quietly, let's differentiate between the truth and the dirt,and let's figure out all Yushchenko's complaints," said Vadym Konovalyuk, a lawmaker and a Yanukovych supporter. Both camps have complained of voting problems, and throughout Sunday there were numerous media reports of scuffles at polling stations, observers being barred and journalists being detained. One policeman guarding a polling station was found dead Sunday after apparently being hit over the head by intruders, news reports said. Yushchenko and some of his associates went to the Central Election Commission early Monday, contending that some precincts showed improbably high turnout figures of as much as 96 percent. Some 79 percent of registered voters turned out to vote nationwide. Yushchenko's campaign complained that Yanukovych supporters were given absentee ballots and bused out of their native regions and back again so they could vote twice. Yanukovych's side, meanwhile, cited voter list problems and said some stations were refusing to give out absentee ballots in violation of Ukrainian law. Lawmakers had voted to prohibit the use of absentee ballots amid fears that they could be used to falsify the results, but Kuchma refused to sign the measure Friday. The election came after months of opposition allegations of official interference, claims Yushchenko was poisoned and a cliffhanger first-round vote riddled with complaints of intimidation. Yushchenko says he wants to push the country to greater integration with Western Europe and has suggested seeking NATO membership. His critics frequently portray him as an American puppet who could be unduly influenced by his U.S.-born wife, and a nationalist who would split Ukraine and alienate Russia, Ukraine's key trade partner and main energy supplier. Yanukovych had been strongly praised by Russian President Vladimir Putin and would be expected to pursue close ties with Moscow; he has proposed making Russian a second official language and supports continuing Ukraine's participation in an embryonic economic union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Ukraine has a large contingent of soldiers in Iraq, but both candidates support withdrawing them. |
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KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- With nearly all ballots counted, Ukraine's prime minister retained his narrow lead Monday in the bitterly contested presidential election, which Western observers said was marred by irregularities and fraud, and the reformist opposition leader called for mass protests. The Ukrainian Elections Commission said Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych had 49.42 percent to Viktor Yushchenko's 46.70 percent, with 99.38 percent of precincts counted. Earlier partial results showed Yanukovych less than one percentage point ahead. But an exit poll, conducted under a Western-funded program, gave Yushchenko 54 percent of the vote to Yanukovych's 43 percent. Another poll put Yushchenko ahead by 49.4 to 45.9 percent, the Interfax news agency reported. Observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, the European Parliament and NATO criticized the balloting. "This election did not meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections," said mission leader Bruce George. "The abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister continued, as well as an overwhelming media bias in his favor." Even stronger criticism came from Richard Lugar, chairman of the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee. "It is now apparent that a concerted and forceful program of election-day fraud and abuse was enacted with either the leadership or cooperation of governmental authorities," said Lugar, who was sent to Kiev as U.S. President George W. Bush's envoy. Yushchenko, addressing a crowd of some 10,000 supporters in Kiev's main Independence Square, called on his supporters to set up tent camps in central Kiev, and many tents were already blocking traffic. "We will not leave this place until we win," Yushchenko said. "The people's will cannot be broken. People's votes cannot be stolen." Many protesters said they would return to the square after heading home to get warmer clothes. Meanwhile, protesters set out from Yushchenko's western stronghold, Lviv, bound for Kiev. The Lviv city council announced that it recognized Yushchenko as the president and was ready to fulfill "all of his orders and decrees." Yushchenko's key ally, Yulia Tymoshenko, called for a general strike. "Stop working, stop learning, make it all stop," she said. Yushchenko said that in addition to the tent camp, the opposition would demand an emergency parliamentary session and challenge suspected violations in the courts. The election was seen as determining whether this ex-Soviet republic of 48 million tilts toward the West or its traditional patron, Russia. The bitter campaign sparked fears that Ukraine could erupt in violence as distrust in the government's ability to conduct a credible vote grew. Yushchenko foes claimed that the reformist's supporters gathering in the square could try to foment civil unrest with the aim of seizing power. The Central Election Commission office was heavily guarded by riot police and armored vehicles. Several buses with Yanukovych supporters were parked nearby. Both camps have complained of voting problems, and there were numerous media reports of scuffles at polling stations, observers being barred and journalists being detained. Yushchenko contended that some precincts in Yanukovych strongholds showed improbably high turnout figures of as much as 96 percent. "These figures are more reminiscent of the kind of results we might have witnessed in Turkmenistan," commented NATO election observer Charles Tannock, referring to a repressive former Soviet republic in Central Asia. Yushchenko's campaign complained that Yanukovych supporters were given absentee ballots and bused out of their native regions and back again so they could vote twice. Yanukovych's side, meanwhile, said some stations were refusing to provide absentee ballots in violation of the law. Serhiy Kivalov, the head of the Central Election Commission, has said that the opposition "can complain to courts." "We were counting votes in full accordance with the law," Kivalov said. Yushchenko says he wants to push the country to greater integration with Western Europe and has suggested seeking NATO membership. Yanukovych has proposed making Russian a second official language and supports continuing Ukraine's participation in an embryonic economic union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. |
Keep us posted as you hear things.
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KIEV, Ukraine -- Opposition supporters camped out on the streets of Kiev after crying foul in a bitterly contested runoff vote in Ukraine's presidential election. With nearly all the ballots counted by Monday evening, the election commission said Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych had a slim lead over liberal challenger Viktor Yushchenko. Yushchenko told thousands of supporters to stay in Kiev's main square overnight to keep a tent encampment safe from security forces who he said wanted to dismantle it. "We have received information that authorities want to destroy our tent city at 3 a.m. ... At two o'clock there should be more of us than now," Yushchenko said, speaking to supporters at Kiev's Independence Square, in remarks quoted by Reuters. "We must defend every chestnut tree, every tent. We must show to the authorities we are here for a long time.... There must be more and more of us here every hour." The ex-Soviet state's nationalist western regions also rebelled, saying they would recognise only Yushchenko as the rightful president. Four major cities in the western heartland, including Lviv, said they would recognise only Yushchenko as the legitimate president and backed opposition calls for a general strike. Lviv, the cradle of Ukrainian nationalism, has set a trend for central and eastern regions in the past, and spearheaded the drive for independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. Meanwhile PM Yanukovich said that the majority of voters had backed him. "The preliminary results are optimistic -- a majority of voters have shown their preference for my position and program," he said in a statement. Officials earlier said that with 99.38 percent of precincts counted, Yanukovych had 49.42 percent to Yushchenko's 46.70 percent -- a mathematically winning lead. Earlier partial results showed Yanukovych less than one percentage point ahead. An exit poll, conducted under a Western-funded program, gave Yushchenko 54 percent of the vote to Yanukovych's 43 percent. Another poll put Yushchenko ahead by 49.4 to 45.9 percent, the Interfax news agency reported. European and U.S. observers called the polls fraudulent -- and large protests were taking place in Kiev. However, Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated Yanukovich on his victory in a presidential election, Interfax news agency reported. Reporting from Brazil, where Putin is on an official visit, Interfax quoted his press secretary as saying the Russian president had telephoned Yanukovich, telling him "the battle had been hard-fought, but open and honest, and his victory was convincing." Yushchenko, addressing a crowd of about 10,000 supporters in Kiev's main Independence Square, urged them to set up tent camps in the capital. Many tents were already blocking traffic, The Associated Press reported. "We will not leave this place until we win," Yushchenko said. "The people's will cannot be broken. People's votes cannot be broken. Many protesters said they would return to the square after going home to get warmer clothes. Protesters also set out from Yushchenko's western stronghold, Lviv, bound for Kiev. Observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, the European Parliament and NATO criticized the balloting. "There was certainly fraud, though this is difficult to quantify," a leading member of the OSCE delegation, Gert-Hinrich Ahrens, told CNN. He said there had been incidents of violence and intimidation -- and in some areas 5 percent of voters had been added to the lists on voting day, many of them with certificates allowing them to vote away from their place of residence. "This election did not meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections," mission leader Bruce George told AP. "The abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister continued, as well as an overwhelming media bias in his favor." Even stronger criticism came from Richard Lugar, chairman of the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee. "It is now apparent that a concerted and forceful program of election-day fraud and abuse was enacted with either the leadership or cooperation of governmental authorities," said Lugar, who was sent to Kiev as U.S. President George W. Bush's envoy. The Lviv city council announced that it recognized Yushchenko as the president and was ready to fulfill "all of his orders and decrees." Yushchenko's key ally, Yulia Tymoshenko, called for a general strike. "Stop working, stop learning, make it all stop," she said. CNN's Ryan Chilcote says that Yushchenko says he will call for an emergency session of parliament to look at the poll violations he alleges -- and for an anulment of results where those violations took place. The opposition leader says he will continue with demonstrations until he is declared winner, Chilcote says. The OSCE's Ahrens said that the opposition had the opportunity to go to Ukraine's Supreme Court go to challenge results. |
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Ùå íå âìåðëà Óêðà¿íà, ³ ñëàâà, ³ âîëÿ, Ùå íàì, áðàòòÿ ìîëî䳿, óñì³õíåòüñÿ äîëÿ. Çãèíóòü íàø³ âîðîæåíüêè, ÿê ðîñà íà ñîíö³, Çàïàíóºì ³ ìè, áðàòòÿ, ó ñâî¿é ñòîðîíö³. Äóøó, ò³ëî ìè ïîëîæèì çà íàøó ñâîáîäó. ² ïîêàæåì, ùî ìè, áðàòòÿ, êîçàöüêîãî ðîäó. |
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Originally posted by Pawel_PL.USA I'm glad Janukowych won - down with the post-Banderowcy and their candidate Juschenko.
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Originally posted by Jill Yeah, I just got an IM from a friend in Kyiv--evidently at 3 PM today there is going to be a mass protest. Nobody went to work today in Kyiv because they are all planning to take to the streets. Evidently there is talk of "revolution." I hope this isn't another Georgia scenario.... |
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Originally posted by Greg in Ga These people needed a light at the end of the tunnel and they didnt get it. I would hope that Bush will step up,but he wont because there is no oil in Ukraine. If he did step up what measures could he take? |
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Memory of Georgia’s 'Rose Revolution' haunts Kyiv Parallels and differences as protestors set up pre-dawn barricades (AP) - No one passing the thousands of protesters crowding Kyiv's main street asks why Georgian flags are waving in Ukraine - the parallels with Georgia's "Rose Revolution" are strong, even eerie. The demonstrations come exactly a year after protesters in Georgia forced their president out of office. The trigger in both cases: allegations of election fraud, confirmed by Western observers, that brought long-simmering resentments to a boil. Even the main players are variations on the same themes. In Ukraine, as in Georgia, the challenger is a reformer and former government member accused by foes of being an American cat's-paw, with a Western wife. The target, in Kyiv as in Tbilisi: a Soviet-schooled apparatchik. Both times, the protesters' core included people who have received guidance from activists who drove out Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. But the analogies, however compelling, are not equivalencies, and the techniques that worked in Yugoslavia and Georgia are not ensured of success in Ukraine. In this kind of revolution, size historically does seem to matter, but conversely: it generally works better in smaller places. Georgia's total population of 5 million is smaller than that of the greater Kyiv area; Yugoslavia, at the time Milosevic fell, had 8 million people - a sixth of Ukraine's population. If Ukraine's protesters are banking that sheer numbers will prevail - that they'll compile a critical mass that will convince the authorities change is unavoidable - they'll likely need far more than have gathered so far. Nor have the Ukrainians seen much of their own blood spilled, even though the country's security forces aren't opposed to swinging their truncheons. Georgians were hardened by more than a decade of separatist mayhem and protests that erupted in gunfire; Yugoslavia was shattered by all-out wars. A violent offensive by police against Ukraine's protesters could shock them into retreat. Police response was a key to the success of the Rose Revolution - they dressed in ominous-looking riot gear, but stayed at the fringe of the crowds, giving the protesters to believe the security forces were secretly on their side. Although shots were fired, at the crucial moment during Serbia's October 2000 unrest, police openly supported protesters and joined the opposition. Whether Ukraine's security forces were willing to take tough measures against the demonstrators supporting opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko was open to question. A statement issued Nov. 21 in the name of the SBU security service, the Prosecutor General's Office, and the Interior Ministry said "we are ready to put an end to any lawlessness quickly and firmly," but the SBU later denied it was party to the statement. Although busloads of police and other forces were moving into Kyiv in recent days, there was essentially no visible police presence at the protest. As thousands of demonstrators milled before dawn, making barricades of iron benches and setting up tents, the only visible police were a pair of morose-looking traffic cops watching from the confines of their cramped Lada patrol car. In Georgia, the protesters saw little open opposition among civilians - opponents bused in from Adzharia did little other than stand around looking surly. In Ukraine, the base of support for Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, whom the protesters say won the election through fraud, is in the hard-bitten coal-mining Donetsk region - and rumors swirl of convoys of Donetsk toughs heading for the capital. Russia's role also could be critical. Although the Kremlin detested Georgian protest leader Mikhail Saakashvili, it also had locked horns repeatedly with then-President Eduard Shevardnadze and a visit from Russian envoy Igor Ivanov appeared to be key in bringing about Shevardnadze's resignation; Ivanov also showed up in Belgrade hours before Milosevic finally conceded defeat. But Russia strongly favored Yanukovych and its interest in Ukraine is stronger than in either Georgia or Yugoslavia: it's an important trade partner, a buffer between Russia and NATO countries and an important transit route for Russian oil and gas exports. In a possibly telling note, Ukraine's outgoing President Leonid Kuchma said little publicly amid the spiraling crisis Monday - but did announce he plans to meet soon with Russian President Vladimir Putin. |
| The Georgian fiasco that Jill was referring to can be read about here: |
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Originally posted by Pawel_PL.USA Lolo, Janukowycz is the lesser of two evils simply because he's not one of those Ukrainian anti-Polish nationalist types. All Poland needs right now is Germany on the western frontier and a pro-German nationalist Juszczenko Ukraine on the south-eastern frontier. |
| Janukowycz is the lesser of two evils |
| btw, i wait your comments about stepanakert! |
| oooh, Jill, you're wearing the "trizub" now? |
| i've heard nothing about the navy |
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KIEV, Ukraine (CNN) -- Thousands of opposition demonstrators braved freezing temperatures for a third straight day as Ukraine's president offered the prospect of talks to end the country's election crisis. But there were fears tensions could rise when final results in the controversial presidential poll are announced later Wednesday. A spokesman for presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko told CNN Wednesday morning the opposition was prepared to take part in negotiations. But a Yushchenko ally later said the opposition would only hold talks with President Leonid Kuchma about the peaceful transfer of power to the opposition leader. "We are ready to negotiate only about the peaceful handing over of power to Yushchenko by Kuchma," The Associated Press quoted Mykola Tomenko as saying. The outgoing president called for negotiations late Tuesday, saying the opposition's actions amounted to a "political farce" that could lead to "serious consequences," according to news reports. Kuchma said authorities would not be the first to use force but would uphold law and order. Yushchenko warned Tuesday that Ukraine could descend into civil war if the election results he called "a sham" are not annulled and he is not named president. The Ukrainian election commission announced late Monday that Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych had a slim but unassailable lead over Yushchenko, prompting demonstrations from the capital Kiev to the nationalist center Lviv in the west. Yushchenko -- and U.S. and European election observers -- said the vote was fraudulent. Kiev, Lviv and several other cities announced they would not accept the results of the vote and would recognize only Yushchenko as the winner. The election commission said the final results would be announced at 4:30 p.m. (1430 GMT) Wednesday, Russia's Interfax news agency reported. Opposition members have suggested that declaring the results final could trigger swift and severe police action to break up their gathering, AP reported. On Tuesday, Yushchenko led up to 200,000 protesters in a march on Ukraine's parliament demanding authorities admit they cheated in the election. Parliamentary deputies held an emergency session to debate opposition calls to annul the vote and pass a no-confidence vote against the election commission. But the chamber lacked enough members for a quorum. The politicians spoke anyway, watched on a large television screen set up outside for the demonstrators. When Yushchenko stepped before the cameras, the crowd outside parliament roared its approval and again chanted his name. After the session ended, Yushchenko symbolically swore the oath of office on a Bible. The country's constitution, however, stipulates that the president swears allegiance on a copy of the constitution. Lawmakers chanted "Bravo, Mr. President!" as demonstrators outside the building chanted his last name, waving orange flags representing Yushchenko's party. Should parliament pass a no-confidence vote against the election commission, the matter would go to the Supreme Court, which could then annul the vote in some areas, including some in which as much as 95 percent of the vote was reported cast for Yanukovych. In Washington, meanwhile, the White House issued a statement saying the United States is "deeply disturbed by extensive and credible indications of fraud committed in the Ukrainian presidential election." The White House statement said it strongly supported an investigation of the election. "We call on the government of Ukraine to respect the will of the Ukrainian people, and we urge all Ukrainians to resolve the situation through peaceful means," the statement said. "The government bears a special responsibility not to use or incite violence, and to allow free media to report accurately on the situation without intimidation or concern. The United States stands with the Ukrainian people in this difficult time." Yushchenko, a pro-Western liberal, and Yanukovych, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, fought a bitterly contested runoff battle. On Monday, the election commission said that with 99.38 percent of precincts counted, Yanukovych had 49.42 percent to Yushchenko's 46.70 percent. However, an exit poll conducted under a Western-funded program gave Yushchenko 54 percent of the vote to Yanukovych's 43 percent. Another poll put Yushchenko ahead by 49.4 to 45.9 percent. Putin has congratulated Yanukovych on his victory. But observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Council of Europe, the European Parliament, NATO and the United States criticized the balloting. |
| This one guy is married to an American woman. |
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INTERVIEW: Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko on life in Ukraine, and as a politician's wife -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- by Vasyl Zorya KYIV - Kateryna and Viktor Yushchenko's apartment is like a small private museum in the very center of Kyiv - paintings on the walls, prehistoric artifacts on the shelves, an old grand piano among antique furniture, photographs everywhere. Your first impression from this collection is that, in time, this may be the apartment-museum of a historical figure. The wife of former prime minister Victor Yushchenko looks at this possibility with some humor. Her husband has long been called "the hope of the nation," but for her he always was and remains her "sweetheart." Viktor Yushchenko thinks of his wife as one of the most precious treasures he has collected in recent years. Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko - a "person of the world" - was born in America, but considers Ukraine her homeland. At this correspondent's request, Mrs. Yushchenko gave us a short tour of their home. She explained that, in his rare spare moments, her husband tries to spend time with their children, or create something with his hands. Instead of puzzles, he glues together ceramic shards to construct ancient Trypillian urns. He paints and sculpts, works with wood and iron. What did it mean for Kateryna Chumachenko to fall in love and marry a man whom fate made a popular politician? It meant she would often find out about his achievements and problems from the evening news. It meant she would have to wait each day until her husband completed his public activity and only then could return to the family hearth. From an outsider's point of view, this could look like sacrifice to which only an extraordinary and contemporary woman would agree. Still, her life today is building a foundation for the future, a future that will be fuller and brighter. * * * Editor's note: The interview below was conducted by free-lance journalist Vasyl Zorya of Kyiv exclusively for The Ukrainian Weekly. (Readers will note that the family's surname, previously rendered in this newspaper as "Yuschenko," in accordance with the official transliteration system adopted by the government of Ukraine, now appears as "Yushchenko." According to Mrs. Yushchenko, this is the correct spelling.) PART I Q: Whom do you consider yourself more - an American or a Ukrainian? Do your friends treat you like a real Ukrainian? A: For me, this was never really an issue. Our parents taught us to love Ukraine, and to feel a great responsibility for her fate. I very much respect and value America for taking in my parents during difficult times, and for giving me an opportunity to receive an education and make a career. I enjoy living in Ukraine. I consistently discover new things about this country. I am very glad when my American friends share my sincere interest in Ukraine. The year before last, my sister, Lydia, visited here for the first time. She was enchanted - with Kyiv, Crimea, the Karpaty. Last year her son, my nephew Danylo, married a Ukrainian girl from Kyiv. After 10 years in Ukraine, people here rarely remember that I was born and raised abroad. Most of my friends do not feel any difference. It is only my husband's political competitors who occasionally remind me of my American roots, usually through the media. Q: In families with different cultural traditions there are often misunderstandings. How are you able to avoid them? A: In our family, what is most important is that which unites us - love of country, love of God, love of family. As in all families, we have our differences. I am convinced, however, that they are not the result of differences between American and Ukrainian culture, especially since Ukraine is something we both consider sacred. They are more the result of being raised in different societies and families. Cultural traditions are really very easy to unite. It is fun to watch how our family celebrates the winter holidays. First we celebrate Sviatoho Mykolaya, then Christmas by the new calendar, then the New Year, then Ukrainian Christmas and New Year by the old calendar. It is true that the children get a bit confused, and mix up Sviatyi Mykolai, Santa Claus, Did Moroz and the snow man! Q: How did the introduction to your husband's family go? A: Viktor's mother was afraid to meet me for quite a while. Like many in Ukraine, she thought that Ukrainian Americans were different, that I probably did not know how to cook "our" food, that I might not feel comfortable in her humble, rural home. Even my husband seemed to put off this first introduction. My relations with Viktor's mother grew very warm very quickly. She became convinced that I was more Ukrainian than American, that there was no real difference. In his village, the people were surprised at how "simple" the American was - their greatest compliment. I remember when I was pregnant, half the village gathered to see how the "American" was digging up and peeling beets! My parents also grew to love Viktor. They had always wanted me to marry a Ukrainian. They dreamed of communicating with their son-in-law and grandchildren in their native language. On the one hand, my parents were proud that I returned to Ukraine, since we all dreamed that one day we would go back, but on the other hand, they were afraid for me. Their memories of life in Ukraine were complicated, difficult - they were associated with the Famine, repression, war. Q: What made you move to Ukraine? A: I visited Ukraine in 1975 and 1979, when I was still in school. Even then I had the desire to live and work in Ukraine; I had a very romanticized view of it. In 1991, before it became independent, my parents and I traveled to Ukraine. This was my father's first visit to his homeland since the war. It was a return to his youth, to his family - he had not seen one of his sisters for 50 years. It was a very emotional and moving trip. My father found his village ruined. He was disappointed that people in Kyiv spoke only Russian, and also by the poverty. Once he saw an old woman at a bazaar selling what might have been her last sweater, after which he cried for an hour over what had been done to his people. In the summer of 1991, his conclusion was quite harsh. Before returning to America he warned me: "This country will not be independent for a very long time." Then, after the coup in Moscow, after the declaration of independence a month later, I called him immediately. I was jumping around the room screaming, "Tato, we're free!" That is how I remember August 24, my father and I over the telephone, both weeping. It was truly joyful. Unfortunately, my father died in 1998. Per his request, he is buried in Kyiv, next to my mother's parents. Q: Have you ever regretted your decision to return to Ukraine? A: No, I am happy with my family, our friends, and with the new interests and hobbies that I have formed in Ukraine. Q: Why have the diaspora and Ukraine never been able to form optimal relations? A: I am convinced that since 1991 our diaspora has been more active in its attempts to help Ukraine than other nationalities that traditionally promote ties with their historical homelands. Ukrainians from the diaspora have tried to cooperate with Ukraine at various levels - government, business, humanitarian. There are many diaspora organizations that do operate effectively in Ukraine. I have worked with some of these directly - the Canadian organization Help Us Help the Children, UCARE from the United States, the US-Ukraine Foundation. And there are many others, such as the Children of Chornobyl Fund, and the various professional organizations. And I believe that relations between Ukraine and the West were established quite effectively at the government level. The Ukrainian diplomatic corps is, on the whole, quite professional. But, with time, the flow of "people's diplomats" to Ukraine significantly declined. The main reason is that Ukraine never created mechanisms to utilize the diaspora's abilities and resources effectively. Instead of promoting cooperation, the bureaucracy placed barriers in its way. It is a shame that many in Ukraine did not welcome Ukrainians from the diaspora. I believe that a serious obstacle to good relations was old Soviet thinking. Representatives of the Ukrainian diaspora found it difficult to work in a business and humanitarian environment dominated by Soviet bureaucratic unreliability, a lack of professionalism and corruption. |
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STATEMENT BY THE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY THE WHITE HOUSE, Office of the Press Secretary Crawford, Texas, Tuesday, November 23, 2004 The United States is deeply disturbed by extensive and credible indications of fraud committed in the Ukrainian presidential election. We strongly support efforts to review the conduct of the election and urge Ukrainian authorities not to certify results until investigations of organized fraud are resolved. We call on the Government of Ukraine to respect the will of the Ukrainian people, and we urge all Ukrainians to resolve the situation through peaceful means. The Government bears a special responsibility not to use or incite violence, and to allow free media to report accurately on the situation without intimidation or coercion. The United States stands with the Ukrainian people in this difficult time. |
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AN OPEN DECLARATION By a Group from the Diplomatic Corps of Ukraine Declaration by Four Ukrainian Diplomats Washington, D.C., Tuesday, November 23, 2004 We, Ukrainian diplomats, declare our resolute protest against what has become the transformation of the Presidential elections of 2004 into a disgraceful war against the people of Ukraine. Today when our families, our loved ones and our friends find themselves on Independence Square in Kyiv, we cannot remain silent. Guided by our conscience, our professional pride and our oath to loyally serve the Ukrainian state, we express our solidarity with the voice of the Ukrainian people. That voice is an expression of protest against the violation of our citizens' right to elect a president by democratic means. In spite of incessant threats, terror and massive fraud, the Ukrainian people have expressed their will. Their choice, however, has proven inconvenient for those representatives of the political elite in Ukraine who have for years ostensibly expressed Ukraine's European and democratic orientation. At this crucial moment, the actions of that same elite have proven that the expressions of European integration and democracy were merely empty slogans. The people of Ukraine, represented by a small portion freezing in Kyiv's Independence Square, deserve a different government than the one currently asserting itself. We are convinced that our silence today, in the long-term, would continue to undermine and erode the authority of our state. This would effectively change the diplomatic corps into an instrument of service to a government whose legitimacy is already questioned by the world community. Once and for all, this would annul the international reputation of our country. Democratic nations of the world will turn away from Ukraine. We cannot quietly look away as Ukraine's future is buried along with the future of our children. We call upon all members of the Ukrainian diplomatic corps to raise its voice in defense of what we believe and hold dear: an independent, democratic and honorable Ukraine. We, Ukrainian citizens, demand that the results of the elections reflect the true will of the people as the only source of power in Ukraine. We believe that other members of the diplomatic service will come to support this declaration. Advisor to the Embassy of Ukraine to the United States O.V. Shcherba Second Secretary of the Embassy of Ukraine to the U.S. U. B. Parkhomenko Advisor to the Embassy of Ukraine to the United States O.V. Potiekhin Advisor to the Embassy of Ukraine to the United States V. M. Chuma |
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RUSSIA PLAYS FOR HIGH STAKES OVER UKRAINE By Arkady Ostrovsky in Moscow Financial Times, London, UK, Tue, November 23 2004 MOSCOW - The fate of Ukraine may be decided on the streets of Kiev in coming days, but the stakes are also high for Russia, which has openly tried to reassert its influence in the former Soviet republic during the elections. The vote's outcome is seen in Moscow as a defining moment both for Russian foreign and domestic policies. For the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia is trying to impose its political will beyond its own borders. "The Ukrainian election has become the factor of self-identification for Russia," says Lilia Shevtsova, a senior analyst at the Moscow Carnegie Centre. Russia's President Vladimir Putin backed Viktor Yanukovich, the incumbent prime minister in the run-up to the elections and was the first to declare his victory despite mass protests in Kiev and outrage in the west at the widespread irregularities and fraud. A confrontation over the Ukrainian vote is set to overshadow a summit between Russia and the European Union in The Hague on Thursday. Mr Putin is scheduled to discuss an agreement on closer links between Moscow and the EU with Jose Manuel Barroso, the new European Commission president, and Jan Peter Balkenende, Dutch prime minister. On Tuesday Joschka Fischer, German foreign minister, called on Ukraine to hold a recount - and possibly even a re-run. "We call on the Ukrainian government, in co-operation with the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, to review both the polling and counting process and to take the necessary corrective measures." Gleb Pavlovsky, a communications adviser contracted by the Kremlin administration to pursue Russia's interest in Ukraine, said: "There is a war of nerves going on at the moment [between Russia and the west]. If the EU does not recognise Yanukovich as a legitimate president, it could lead to a direct confrontation with Russia." Until recently the Kremlin pursued an ambivalent foreign policy declaring its long-term common interests with Europe while also trying to strengthen its ties with the former Soviet republics. However, the elections in Ukraine clarified Russia's position. "This is the first time since the end of the Soviet Union that the interest of Russia and the interest of the west clashed so openly. The west is not used to a strong Russian state pursuing its interests. Let it get used to it," said Vyacheslav Nikonov, a political analyst close to the Kremlin. Russia sees Ukraine as a battleground for influence between itself and the west. "If Viktor Yushchenko had won the elections, Ukraine could have joined Nato within two years and this would have been an openly anti- Russian move," said Mr Nikonov, expressing the Kremlin view that Mr Yushchenko has definitely lost. But the Ukrainian elections could also have serious implications for Russian domestic policy. Grigory Yavlinsky, the leader of the liberal Yabloko party, on Tuesday said that, by discrediting the Ukrainian elections, the Kremlin aimed "to demonstrate to its own citizens that there can be no honest elections in the post-Soviet space and therefore kill political opposition in Russia in the bud". Mr Yavlinsky said Russia's policy in Ukraine was also the result of its imperial ambitions. As Ms Shevtsova put it: "Russia still feels a phantom pain for the loss of Ukraine. It is like with a patient whose leg has been amputated. The leg is gone, but you still feel the pain in it." |
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Originally posted by lolomarseille "what happens in Ukraine will probably foreshadow what happens in Russia." so,, scuse me :-)) |
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Originally posted by lolomarseille hey james, no more turkeys in praha? |
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Originally posted by James_PRG Probably not, but seeing as I'm English and not American I don't celebrate Thanksgiving James. |
(so far! ) Jill--- thanks for sharing the stories of your family & friends. | Curious if Ukraine TV showed much video of Lech Walesa & Yushchenko at the rally in Kiev Thursday evening |
| I think before a lot of people did not know or even had heard of Ukraine . Now they do. |
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Привет! Извени, что вмешиваюсь в вашу с xxx переписку, но сейчас Нам можно ВСЁ. Я хочу, чтобы ты правильно понимал ту ситуацию, котороя сейчас в Киеве и вообще в Украине. Мы - на баррикадах, в полном смысле этого слова, и просто так мы Украину не отдадим. Крещатик - как в 1917 году, мои студенты - там, и я тоже с ними. xxx в обеденный перерыв с посольством ходит на Майдан кормить и поить приезжих людей; в доме профсоюзов- штаб, в музее Ленина - штаб;миллионы киевлян предлагают свои жилища для приезжих людей. Все сдают деньги, одежду, просто готовят дома и идут кормить людей на Крещатик и Майдан. С нами - вся элита Украины: Бенюк, Хостикоев, Гордон, Пономарёв, Руслана объявила голодовку, Клички, Кинах, Мороз, Омельченко... я не могу просто назвать всех!!! За нас - вся Европа. Журналисты ТВ отказались говорить херню - Я имеюю ввиду 1+1, Ут 1, Новый... Не верь, если Вам будут втирать, что у нас "ничего не происходит", вообще - никому не верь. Если есть возможность - настройся на 5-й канал и верь только тому, что оворят там. Кабмин, Верховна Рада и Администрация Президента - заблокированы. Вчера Верховный Суд Украины принял решение не оглашать результатов выборов до слушания дела в Суде 29.11. в 11. 00. Вобщем, xxx - всё у нас классно! И если завтра по Крещатику пойдут танки, я, в буквальном смысле слова, сяду рядом со своими студентами, которые замерзшие, голодные, но счастливые, отстаивают и отсиживают наше будущее и будущее наших детей, я сяду рядом с ними, и пусть они переезжают всех нас - вдоль и поперёк, а потом на наших костях строят "демократию" в Украине ,если останется с кем ... Вот такие наши дела. Ещё раз извени, что вмешалась, но душа горит! Всё, бегу к своим на майдан, пора кормить борцов за демократию. СЛАВА НАРОДУ УКРАИНЫ!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| The Chestnut Revolution and the Orange Revolution. So take your pick |
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