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Posted by: Jill

Here is another article on AW-RM relationships that I just came across.

I knew we weren't the only ones!

Quote:

Good Russian Grooms
You wanna marry one of the local men? Why?
Wednesday, November 11, 1998, The Moscow Times
About Face: American Women Pursue Russians

By Lynn Visson

While marriage agencies, Internet dating services and catalogs stuffed with photos of gorgeous Russian girls eagerly seeking American husbands have attracted a good deal of media coverage, the other side of Russian-American marriages - Russian men married to American women - has received relatively little attention.

In the years since perestroika, however, more and more American female academics, journalists, tourists, lawyers, businesswomen, and housewives have followed the example of Isadora Duncan (who wed the poet Sergei Yesenin) and Susan Eisenhower (married to the space scientist Ronald Sagdeyev).

Prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of mixed unions (aside from Russian émigrés who married Americans) involved American men and Russian women. Though the Soviet authorities, after years of refusals, delays, and harassment, might reluctantly grant exit visas to the Russian wives of foreigners, getting permission for a man to leave was far more difficult.

Since the Revolution, Civil War, collectivization, famines, the gulag and above all World War II had led to a drastic demographic skew in which women considerably outnumbered men, a Russian man's marriage to it foreigner and subsequent departure meant that one less man was available for Russian women. Compulsory military service and the fact that men were more likely than women to have access to classified information also made it more difficult to obtain an exit visa for a foreign husband.

What do American women see in Russian men, and - assuming the Russians want more than just a trip to the US? What do these men see in the American girls? Research and contacts with mixed couples while writing my book, have suggested a few possible answers. Now that travel restrictions have been lifted, the question "does he want me or my passport'?" is not as critical for lovestruck American women as it was 10 or 20 years ago. The Russian men say they see their American spouses as partners in marriage and, most importantly, as women who treat them as men ad not as incompetent, infantile children, as so many Russian women are prone to do.

"My Russian ex-wife was always making fun of me, to my face and behind my back," complained one Muscovite. "Jane doesn't treat me as though I were a fool and good for nothing except bringing home a wad of bills." Another man, Oleg, found "I could never really discuss anything with my Russian girlfriend. She was very sexy and a great cook, but I had to go see my male friends to talk about anything interesting. Laura is really up on Politics, literature and art."

The Russian men praised their American spouses' independence. "She knows how to amuse herself in her spare time," added Helen's husband Pavel. "She isn't always yelling at me to help change every light bulb, or to entertain her every single minute." American honesty is a very highly valued quality that always amazes me," said Anatoly, "that Beverly doesn't know how to lie. I mean, she' can tell a fib in a social situation, but her instinctive reaction is to tell the truth!"

In a totalitarian society in which lying had become an ingrained reflex, such honesty would have been both dangerous and naive. "Muriel is much more direct and honest than most Russian girls," Sergei said of his wife. "She doesn't play games all the time, and she says what she thinks. Even though we have a lot of arguments, I feel that she's a real friend as well as my lover."

The American conviction that being honest is always the right thing to do - even if it hurts the spouse - can provide fertile ground for serious conflict. One American wife who told her Russian husband about a one-night stand she had had after too many drinks during a business trip was shocked when he demanded a divorce. As far as she was concerned, she had been "honest" and therefore deserved forgiveness; as her husband saw it, she had mortally insulted him by telling him something that should have remained unsaid. If honesty means that one will obidet (offend, insult, hurt) the spouse, the Russians favor keeping silent.

The price for American female partnership, independence and honesty was sometimes, as the Russians saw it, a lack of zhenstvennost (femininity)."Joyce is a wonderful woman," Pyotr commented of his wife, "but I wish she'd do her nails more often and check that the buttons aren't falling off her coat." Many Russian men commented on their American wives' lackadaisical attitude to their personal appearance and grooming and on their relative lack of interest in keeping house or in cooking.

What do the American women see in the Russian men? "I'd start out with one simple word passion," said Julie. "They're handsome, romantic, strong and self-confident," said another. "He treats me like a woman," Anna said of her husband. "I don't want to be his equal and get a slap on the back; flowers and a kiss are just perfect!" Unscathed by American feminism, the Russians still open doors, hold coats, pay a woman compliments, pick up the check in a restaurant, and feel it is their role to take care of the "weaker sex." For American women accustomed to males cowed by feminist rhetoric, this Russian protectiveness can have great appeal. "He knows he's a man," Leslie, 30, an American teacher of Russian said of her husband.

The men are also free from psychobabble. "Dmitry doesn't analyze our relationship all the time," Jane said. "My American boyfriend had been to so many shrinks he treated me as if I were one, too,"

The down side? "He never did a dish before he married me, and he still has trouble helping around the house," one woman said. "To call him a chauvinist pig is putting it mildly. his mother did everything for him." "He's not one to talk about his feelings or think it's important to express yourself," volunteered another woman who admitted to a preference for letting it all hang out.

Vodka parties with friends who stay until 3 a.m. and the close involvement in the marriage of the husband's parents are not universally appreciated. "My husband calls his mother every day," Jane said, "and she doesn't hesitate to call him at any hour of the day or night." Some women, however, see their spouses' attitudes toward their mothers as a plus. "llya holds his mother in such high esteem," Anna said. "And the way a man treats his mother is the way he'll treat you."

Sometimes said Melissa, who recently started living in Moscow with her Russian spouse, "I think, what does it take for an nice, normal American girl to do this? You have to be a just a little bit crazy. But this is so exciting and intense that now I couldn't imagine being married to an American."

Lynn Visson is the author of "Wedded Strangers: The Challenges of Russian-AmericanMarriages". Published in New York by Hippocrene Books, in 1998.

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jill
Here is another article on AW-RM relationships that I just came across.

I knew we weren't the only ones!

Don't you find it curious that the Russian Male, in general, acts in a fashion that is in direct conflict with what feminsts claim a man should be like?

example:

"He treats me like a woman," Anna said of her husband. "I don't want to be his equal and get a slap on the back; flowers and a kiss are just perfect!" Unscathed by American feminism, the Russians still open doors, hold coats, pay a woman compliments, pick up the check in a restaurant, and feel it is their role to take care of the "weaker sex."

Sadly, it is this type of american man (as discribed by Anna) that is seeking alternative paths to find a wife, one that no longer includes american women.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally posted by RobOhioGuy
Don't you find it curious that the Russian Male, in general, acts in a fashion that is in direct conflict with what feminsts claim a man should be like?

As French men say, "We never reduce our women to equal rights!"

Here is an opposite opinion:

http://www.encount.com/media/washtimes.html

"Russian men are romantic and good at courtship, but when they are married, they have traditional attitudes that American women will not accept"

And that is my favorite:

Russian men "are all drunks, smokers or lazy bones - they can't keep a family," says Olga.
"I will marry any foreigner who will take me away from this terrible country... Russia has no future," Olga says, quickly adding that she "cannot marry a man without feeling."

Posted by: mria

I've reached the firm conclusion that the reason the "feminist" movement, which most people translate into "women who choose career over family" (which is wrong, by the way--I'm a feminist, but family is more important to me) is so successful in the West is because there was more for women to fight against.

1. Russian women were entering universities long before western women. Also, its true that Russian men LOVE women and women's company.

2. Muslim women have had inheritence rights for 1400 years, yet in Victorian England, this was unheard of. Muslim women have never changed their name after marriage, the idea being, that they keep their own identity.

3. Having had the pleasure of aquiring a Japanese boyfriend, I have recently learned that ALL family finances in Japan are handed over to the woman, and the husband receives "pocket money". Is it any wonder Japanese women are not fighting men in their own country--what is there to fight? Japanese women look at Western women working, doing most of the housework and see that they have no rights over all the finances. They think western women are some kind of slave.

4. Vietnam traditionally had a matriarchal society, where all inheritence passed through the woman.

5. Anglo-Saxons smirk at Italians because they believe the men are ruled by their mothers. Little do they think that every woman would want to see her son on a regular basis no matter what his age, but in England and America, she has no such rights.

Many traditional societies have given women more rights than Anglo-Saxon society.
But because Anglo-Saxon men and women tend to be so sure of their superiority over other races and cultures they can't imagine that they can learn from others.

Bottom line: Anglo Saxon culture has traditionally been more oppressive towards women than other cultures around the world.
Anglo-Saxon women have tried to counter-act this with some kind of revolution, but now are unwilling to look at other cultures for a model, and seem to have got swept away in a kind of lifestyle materialism, where they have to work like mad outside the home, to fund what they think they need to buy.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Don't you find it curious that the Russian Male, in general, acts in a fashion that is in direct conflict with what feminsts claim a man should be like?

No. Why should I? I LIKE when men open doors for me, buy me flowers, and treat me in a polite manner. Most women I know--both Russian and American--also like that (sure, not all).

The only point I would like to make about feminism as such is that one of its main tenets (if not THE main tenet) is that women should be given equal opportunities in the workplace, education, etc. I certainly agree with that, as do most men I know--both Russian and American. So where is the "cultural contradiction"?

And in some ways, basic feminist notions took root in Russia before they did in the US. The model Soviet woman, for example, worked in the factories and in the fields right along side the men. Even the first woman in space was Russian

Unfortunately, however, it seems that in Russia today the "glass ceiling" is a lot lower for women than it is in the US. Although most school teachers are women, for example, the majority of school directors are men. And there are far more women secretaries in Russia than women business managers (true in the US as well, but I think not as extreme a disaprity).

Quote:

Russian men "are all drunks, smokers or lazy bones - they can't keep a family," says Olga.

Oh yes, PrincetonLion, of course we ALL know this

Posted by: Vyesna

Yes, they are all bums sleeping on park benches-- that's the reality of the Russian man.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
Yes, they are all bums sleeping on park benches-- that's the reality of the Russian man.

Oh yes, now I know who are all these guys sleeping on the benches in Philadelphia, - they are Russians!

Posted by: Vyesna

And all the ones in Hollywood too.

Posted by: rtking

Quote:

Originally posted by RobOhioGuy
"He treats me like a woman," Anna said of her husband. "I don't want to be his equal and get a slap on the back; flowers and a kiss are just perfect!" Unscathed by American feminism, the Russians still open doors, hold coats, pay a woman compliments, pick up the check in a restaurant, and feel it is their role to take care of the "weaker sex."

Oddly enough, I do this all the time. I was brought-up to be a gentleman and this is a duty that all gentlemen should perform. Sadly I have been berated by many of my [American women] dates for doing what I was taught. (Opening doors, opening the passenger door of the car, carrying bags while shopping, helping to put-on/take-off coats, etc.) I thought the days of chivalry were gone forever. I realize now that it probably was the small sampling of women that I dated and that there are women out there that wouldn't mind a bit of chivalry now-and-then. Thankfully Olga doesn't mind my chivalry in the least!

Bob

Posted by: Vyesna

I don't know where these American monster girls are. I've never said anything but thank you to anyone -- man or woman-- who's held a door for me, a coat, etc. As for helping carrying things, if it was offered by a stranger sometimes I said no thank you just because I would feel uncomfortable putting someone else out, guilty sort of. I've also never seen any girl or woman in America chew anyone out for holding the door, etc. I think some random ocurrences with women with particularly strange complexes are being exaggerated into a national characteristic that simply isn't true.

As far as I'm concerned, true feminism is only about equal pay for equal work, equal opportunities, equal treatment before the law (including not favoring women in domestic issues, etc.) and not being defined as person solely by your sex (ie, not having to like or not like something, do or not do something just because you are a man or a woman). Everything that goes on at home as far as I'm concerned is not a "woman's issue" or a feminist issue but a family issue that needs to be worked out between individual husbands and wives. There's also birth issues which I think are health, privacy and personal autonomy issues peculiar to women but that affect men too and should also be considered family issues.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
I don't know where these American monster girls are. I've never said anything but thank you to anyone -- man or woman-- who's held a door for me, a coat, etc.

They do exist!

Now, i'm not one to bash American women but there are some odd women on our streets (and a lot of men too). As i've said i think the problem with American is not American women but Americans in general..... our perceptions, beliefs, biases, etc....

Many things have just gone wrong and many people have become very materialistic.

Now as for those monster girls, well I had an encounter with one once and I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business!!!

Many years ago, i picked up my mother from the hospital. She had to be driven home because of the medication they had given her. I came straight from work to the hospital and hadn't changed clothes. The shirt I was wearing had a monogram with the company name and logo on it.

My mother need some items from the grocery store so on the way home I stopped at the store. My mother waited in the car while i was in the store.

I was approached by a (crazy) woman who was very out spoken and loud. She was fussing at me and telling her friend how I was just wearing that shirt because I was trying to pick up women.

She had many other things to say but I don't need to mention them here.....

Some of her comments were very negative towards me and men in general!!!!!

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Another funny article:

http://www.exile.ru/feature/feature9.html

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
They do exist!

Now, i'm not one to bash American women but there are some odd women on our streets (and a lot of men too). As i've said i think the problem with American is not American women but Americans in general..... our perceptions, beliefs, biases, etc....

Many things have just gone wrong and many people have become very materialistic.

Now as for those monster girls, well I had an encounter with one once and I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business!!!

Many years ago, i picked up my mother from the hospital. She had to be driven home because of the medication they had given her. I came straight from work to the hospital and hadn't changed clothes. The shirt I was wearing had a monogram with the company name and logo on it.

My mother need some items from the grocery store so on the way home I stopped at the store. My mother waited in the car while i was in the store.

I was approached by a (crazy) woman who was very out spoken and loud. She was fussing at me and telling her friend how I was just wearing that shirt because I was trying to pick up women.

She had many other things to say but I don't need to mention them here.....

Some of her comments were very negative towards me and men in general!!!!!

Okay, but is that normal behavior? Wierdos exist everywhere. If you don't think there's some crazy RW in Russia who would do something similar, I think you're kidding yourself. My problem is that you guys take the examples of the wierd American women who have issues and make it sound like the majority are like that. I'm sorry if you've had bad luck running into nutters. There are certainly no shortage of nutters of both sexes in the U.S. or Russia, but it's no reason to put down an entire half of a population.

Posted by: rtking

Touche, Vyesna. It's true that there are many great women out there. Many of my friends are married to absolutely wonder wives. But to be fair, I have to say that some of my female (American) friends, sadly, are married to bad husbands.

To your point, I agree that it's the minority of women (and men) that form the exceptions.

Bob

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by PrincetonLion
Another funny article:

http://www.exile.ru/feature/feature9.html

I guess she hasn't figured out that expat bars are probably not the best place to meet nice, normal Russian guys.

Posted by: mria

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
[B] I think some random ocurrences with women with particularly strange complexes are being exaggerated into a national characteristic that simply isn't true.

What I LOVED about Russian men (and the Japanese do it too)... is when they get out of a car, taxi or train in front of you, and they turn around, offer their hand, and help you out.

Or buying a single rose for no reason, on an average day.

Or helping you with your coat. They even help their female cousins and family members with their coat!!!!!

Or suggesting you go to a cafe for a cake or ice cream, just because they suspect it might be nice for you...usually they never eat cake or ice cream.

Or taking you for sunset summer walks along the river with a bottle of beer.....THE most romantic thing you can do for a woman, and it costs 18 roubles.

Or building beach fires, or dacha fires, or making homemade spiced wine to warm you up, or all the other millions of things Russian men do, that don't cost a penny.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
Okay, but is that normal behavior? Wierdos exist everywhere. If you don't think there's some crazy RW in Russia who would do something similar, I think you're kidding yourself. My problem is that you guys take the examples of the wierd American women who have issues and make it sound like the majority are like that. I'm sorry if you've had bad luck running into nutters. There are certainly no shortage of nutters of both sexes in the U.S. or Russia, but it's no reason to put down an entire half of a population.

Vyesna,

When did I EVER put down American women????

You asked where are the monster women and I was just replying.....

You assumed I have some bias against AW when I don't!!!!!!!!

Also, i'm not one of those men who just decided to go look for a RW because somehow I thought they where inherently better.

I discovered mine by accident.... oddly, the one whose profile made me interested in RW is the same one I ended up with

She was the SOLE reason I began to write RW and I thought I was crazy at first!

I considered the distance and expense....

finally I just decided to do it... I figured I could manage the expense and I knew I had to be completely honest and dedicated, etc...

I wrote to many other women first because I was sure wouldn't be interest in me but there was something that kept drawing me back to her profile.....

So, one day after I had written other women I finally wrote to her... she replied and it happened that she was more than I could have imagined!!!!!!

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

What I LOVED about Russian men (and the Japanese do it too)... is when they get out of a car, taxi or train in front of you, and they turn around, offer their hand, and help you out.

I have to say when I was in Russia I simply did not see this.
Not saying it does not happen but I can say that i personally only rarely witnessed this.

Also on the metro , those swinging doors to go down there,
People looked at me like i was crazy to keep it open for a woman or man behind me.
A lot of pushing and shoving on those metros.

I always opened doors for woman everywhere I went and got looks like ( I cant believe this guy is holding open the door for me.)

It appeared to be the standard attitude in Moscow , St. Petersburg or Volgograd. All three citys I visited.

Working in the public sector of Government I always represent the city I work for so I always open doors and help people out from habit at work.
This is a good habit though IMHO

Also Taxi guys looked at me like I was crazy for getting in the back of the taxi with my girl. They would always open the front passenger door for me as she slipped into the back of the taxi.

I guess the guys usually ride in the front seat in Russia

Anyway not saying Russian guys are all like this , just saying what I observed over there on my 3 trips.

Jerry

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
I don't know where these American monster girls are. I've never said anything but thank you to anyone -- man or woman-- who's held a door for me, a coat, etc.

We went to spend a long weekend with my Ex-GFs college age daughter(a number of years back). By the third day of the visit she was literally running to the car to make sure I did not open the door for her.

This young lady was pre-law on a full scholarship and not a "weirdo" by any stretch, but she was highly offended by the implication that she could not open the door herself.

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim_FL
We went to spend a long weekend with my Ex-GFs college age daughter(a number of years back). By the third day of the visit she was literally running to the car to make sure I did not open the door for her. This young lady was pre-law on a full scholarship and not a "weirdo" by any stretch, but she was highly offended by the implication that she could not open the door herself.

I still don't think that's "normal" behavior. Yes, there are probably some women, maybe more concentrated among women's studies majors, I don't know, who have a real issue about this for some unknown reason. But of all the women you've held a door open for in your life, how many have reacted this way? I would guess just a few, and because it's a few it sticks out in your mind because it's odd behavior. Actually, among the pre-law and the law students, there are a ton of wierdos, which may not be obvious on the surface.

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by searcher
Vyesna,

When did I EVER put down American women????

You asked where are the monster women and I was just replying.....

You assumed I have some bias against AW when I don't!!!!!!!!

Also, i'm not one of those men who just decided to go look for a RW because somehow I thought they where inherently better.

I discovered mine by accident.... oddly, the one whose profile made me interested in RW is the same one I ended up with

She was the SOLE reason I began to write RW and I thought I was crazy at first!

I considered the distance and expense....

finally I just decided to do it... I figured I could manage the expense and I knew I had to be completely honest and dedicated, etc...

I wrote to many other women first because I was sure wouldn't be interest in me but there was something that kept drawing me back to her profile.....

So, one day after I had written other women I finally wrote to her... she replied and it happened that she was more than I could have imagined!!!!!!

I wasn't suggesting you personally characterize AW badly, which is why I said "you guys" instead of "you". However, the example you gave is similar to all the others many have given on this list about how sometime in their life some AW got mad because some guy held a door open for her, or some AW asserted she doesn't need a man or whatever...and these examples are used to characterize the whole population which is just silly.

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by Jerico
I have to say when I was in Russia I simply did not see this.
Not saying it does not happen but I can say that i personally only rarely witnessed this.

Also on the metro , those swinging doors to go down there,
People looked at me like i was crazy to keep it open for a woman or man behind me.
A lot of pushing and shoving on those metros.

I always opened doors for woman everywhere I went and got looks like ( I cant believe this guy is holding open the door for me.)

It appeared to be the standard attitude in Moscow , St. Petersburg or Volgograd. All three citys I visited.

Working in the public sector of Government I always represent the city I work for so I always open doors and help people out from habit at work.
This is a good habit though IMHO

Also Taxi guys looked at me like I was crazy for getting in the back of the taxi with my girl. They would always open the front passenger door for me as she slipped into the back of the taxi.

I guess the guys usually ride in the front seat in Russia

Anyway not saying Russian guys are all like this , just saying what I observed over there on my 3 trips.

Jerry

That's the difference between the private and public sphere-- in the public, like the metro, it's every person for him or herself. In the private, like on a date, with acquaintances, etc., that's where the "gallantry" is supposed to kick in. If you go to a party or gathering among Russians who know each other, you will see more of it.

My husband isn't particularly gallant. He does take my bag if we're walking along outside the house often (less so these days-- I guess he's been Americanized

) and he doesn't open car doors for me or anything like that-- he also has an annoying habit of walking ahead of me and I have to ask him to slow down if I'm wearing shoes that make walking fast difficult (but my dad does this also, so I don't think it's a "Russian" problem). However, despite the lack of "gallantry", he is a great father and has more often than me been the primary caregiver to our child, takes care of cooking and cleaning as necessary without complaint or worrying about how it might affect his masculinity, is affectionate, funny and helpful. This is why I think he's a great husband, whereas a lot of RW would reject him because he doesn't make much money and doesn't do the whole gift and flower showering thing. In fact, I still don't have a ring, which a lot of women, especially many RW (who spend a lot of time on their forums bragging and comparing gifts they got from their Western fiances and husbands) would consider a crime against womanhood. I really don't care, because it has no effect on what our daily life is like. I guess that means I'm not "feminine" enough, although I would argue I'm just less materialistic than a lot of women.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
I wasn't suggesting you personally characterize AW badly, which is why I said "you guys" instead of "you". However, the example you gave is similar to all the others many have given on this list about how sometime in their life some AW got mad because some guy held a door open for her, or some AW asserted she doesn't need a man or whatever...and these examples are used to characterize the whole population which is just silly.

Ok, I see....

I agree with you that many men use these examples specifically against American women. I was just trying topoint out that "monster women" do exist!

Of course, it is not just American women but I was just responding to your statement that you had never seen "these monster women"

I don't say that only bad American women exist as I believe there are bad Russian women too!

My contention is that the "problem" with American women is not really a problem with American women but rather a problem with American society as a whole!!!!!

There are many, many, many bad American men too!!!

Look at the majority of sex tourist????? Who are they??????

Look at the many dysfunctional men who seek Russian women, where are many of them from???

Posted by: Vyesna

Of course there are plenty of monster American girls, it's just that some guys seem to run into them all the time -- and somehow I only seem to meet them occasionally.

I still have never seen an American girl get upset for someone holding a door or coat for her, etc. but I will take your word for it. Usually the "monster" qualities I see are a bit different.

Posted by: PrincetonLion

Quote:

Originally posted by Vyesna
Of course there are plenty of monster American girls

But... Some of them are so pretty monsters!

Posted by: Vyesna

Yes, but unfortunately a lot of the pretty ones are on Prozac.

Of course, probably more pretty women in Russia would be on it too if it were more readily available.

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

Another funny article:
http://www.exile.ru/feature/feature9.html

You know, I love the eXile. They write some really funny stuff and I've found some of their political coverage of Russia to be far more insightful than in much of the mainstream press. But an article like this should be taken more at entertainment value, rather than the "investigative journalism" it purports to be. Likewise, they recently started a column called "Whore-r Stories" where one of the editors describes his experiences aquiring, talking to, and having sex with various Moscow prostitutes. Can you learn something about Russia through these kinds of articles? Maybe. Should you take them at face value? Probably not. The eXile writes some great stuff, but you have to differentiate between what is serious journalism and what is exaggerated and satirical. I would consider this article to fall into the second category. It is funny, though.

Posted by: lisa

Jill,
This story makes me wonder about the role of geographic character. While russia and the u.s. have obvious differences, they do seem to share some interesting parallels. Both countries have large land-masses and a strong sense of national identity and destiny involving movement over this land-mass (east-to-west in the u.s., west-to-east in russia). Both involved warrior/traders to subdue indigenous peoples, establish and protect trading outposts and territorial claims, and facilitate settlement (cossaks in russia, cavalry in u.s. A similar story holds for Canada.) Each has a frontier heritage, which includes a sense of rugged independence and distrust of government. Even some of the cities have parallels. More than once I've heard, and from russians no less, Moscow compared to New York: the economic and cultural center, full of aggressive, pushy, ambitious and exceedingly fashion-conscious people. Khabarovsk and Vladivostok have very close parallels to Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and Vancouver B.C., in terms of age, history, and even architecture.
So this leads me to wonder where these unlucky women are from and whether they might have better luck in a region which, at least roughly, approximates their home. Might a woman from Indiana find more in common with someone from Kiev or Saratov than Moscow? Or a woman from Vancouver with someone from Vladivostok? Kak vuy dumaete? Lisa

Posted by: Jill

I agree there are some very interesting parallels. But in terms of geographical compatibility--I think it really depends on the person. There were some guys on here having a similar discussion, actually. Several of them also suggested that a guy looking for a Russian woman, should focus his search on cities similar to the city in which he lives.

But some people are more flexible than that and can adapt to just about any environment. And other people may be living in a certian geographical area not by choice, but by necessity and would be all to happy to move.

So would people from geographically similar cities have more in common with each other? Maybe. But only if they feel some kind of real connection to the place where they live.

Some people can't live with out mountains, some people can't live without smog

Some like the bustle of the big city, some the quiet of a small town. Some need to be near the beach.

Some just want to be with the one they love

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by PrincetonLion
But... Some of them are so pretty monsters!

Pretty after two bottles of that high octane vodka, or pretty at 8 a-m when your eyes are bleary from the night before?

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by PrincetonLion
Oh yes, now I know who are all these guys sleeping on the benches in Philadelphia, - they are Russians!

No, man, that's after the crack high has worn off. Your poor, naive soul, wait until you party with a couple of crackheads, the pistols come out and find yourself hoping you don't catch a bullet. Welcome to America!