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Religous questions for the commander-in-chief
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Posted by: Jim_FL

Dear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination...end of debate. I do need some advice from
you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow
them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How
should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread(cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Posted by: Jerico

Jim,

You have some valid points there

Jerry

Posted by: lolomarseille

Jill, such un-american you became
yor husband obviously brainwashed you, he must be an agent of the international communist-islamic-jew-bug eyed monsters plot against the land of the free and the brave

Posted by: FlashingEyes

I understand that President Bush is Christian, not Jewish, so he probably would be more interested in helping you with the books of the New Testament. Most Christians understand that the New Testament supercedes the Old Testament and would point to something like Matthew 19 ("Jesus answered 'Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.").

Also: "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral (fornicators), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals [two different Greek words are used here denoting the different roles of the active partner and the passive partner in homosexual behavior], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

And let's not forget:

"...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.

"Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all (kinds of) unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, implacable, unmerciful. Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them." (Romans 1:18-32)

Maybe you should address your letter about the Old Testament to a Rabbi?

Posted by: Jutman

Anybody meet this God or Jesus ?????

Posted by: postcaptain

FlashingEyes - Way to go!

Beautiful!

Posted by: Missouri

Jutman- You asked about meeting Jesus/or God.

I am a Christian, and I believe in Jesus. I have never physically and literally met Jesus/God. I do not ever expect to physically/literally meet Jesus this side of Heaven.

Also, Jesus made it clear when He walked on the face of this earth approximately 2000 years ago that He is God.

I can see this thread becoming quite negative. It would be nice if that didn't happen.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Gee, Jim. See the trouble you cause, quoting something that was stolen from/by Aaron Sorkin and the writer's of The West Wing ? Martin Sheen as President Bartlett did a much better oratory of it, even if he is a certifiable left-wing lunatic.

Posted by: Pin Boy

Ya gotta just love the word smite! Would the past tense be smote???

Pin Boy

Posted by: Pin Boy

nice of the president to wait until 4 days after the election to visit some wounded soldiers for the first time since March...also I'm sure the timing of the Fallujah offensive had nothing to do with the election being completed a week prior...

Here's the Prez if he were in Fallujah a few days before the election:

"Uh, insurgents...listen up...we're gonna smoke ya'll out so just bring it on. But we're gonna hang out on the city limits for a few more days til the election is over and give ya'll time to head for the hills before we go NEW-CLEAR on ya'll's asses..."

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.

Pin Boy

Posted by: ConnerVT

As I understand it, President Bush had made a number of visits to wounded soldiers, as well as with the families of those killed in combat. He has prevented them from becoming photo-ops, as the focus (rightfully so) should not be about him or the individual soldiers, but the work done by all of them.

As for Fallujah, if he had called for the offensive before the elections, the same people criticizing his timing now would be screaming it was just a pre-election ploy to gather more votes. So if one is predisposed to think a certain way, you just can't win, now, can ya?

Posted by: postcaptain

Well said ConnerVT.

The amusing thing about the Left - that they believe the world began the day they were born.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by ConnerVT
Gee, Jim. See the trouble you cause, quoting something that was stolen from/by Aaron Sorkin and the writer's of The West Wing ? Martin Sheen as President Bartlett did a much better oratory of it, even if he is a certifiable left-wing lunatic.

+

LOL
Since I've never watched a single episode of "The West Wing" I wouldn't know. My parents forwarded me an e-mail, I found it humorus, so I shared

.

Having gone to a Roman Catholic H.S. and spending an hour a day, 5 days a week, disecting the Bible word by word, line by line, and book by book, I know that these are far from the most ridiculous quotes in it. I also understand a LOT has been lost in the translation from the original old hebrew text to what we find in bookstores today. For those that look at the new testiment as an account of what happened as it was happening, you might be surprised to find out that most of the New testament was written 60 to 100 years after the death of Christ. It is also much easier to seperate the factual account in the Bible from the fictional ones if you have a clear understanding of the socio-economic history at the time of the writings.

Well this ain't Bible study, so if anyone has been offended - my appologies. Ohh, and Pin-Boy, according to Dubbaya that's "NUKE-U-LAR"

new-clear is actually MUCH closer to the correct pronounciation.........

Posted by: lolomarseille

If people talk to god, no problem with me
but i fear people who hear an answer

Posted by: Jill

I think I saw this one a few years back and it is VERY funny--and I agree with Pin Boy, smite is a great word and WAY underused these days.

It seems to me the original letter was addressed to Dr. Laura, no?

Posted by: lolomarseille

vratch Lara?

Posted by: Jill

Yes, you probably don't have Dr. Laura in France. You can consider yourself lucky

Posted by: lolomarseille

ooh, we have silly ones too
chirac's wife is a nightmare too

Posted by: FlashingEyes

French people are known to burn people who talk to God at the stake, even if these same people saved their worthless hides countless times.

As for the timing of the Fallujah offensive, it was interestingly timed to correspond to the end of the Ramapajama Muslem holy month, during which many devout Muslems fast and lounge around in pajamas, making them more likely to surrender and less likely to fight a protracted battle.

Posted by: lolomarseille

we never burnt
just beheaded
but, sadly, these times are gone( snif)

ramapajama sounds more hindi and hindu

i think that you speak about ramadan
there is no clothing rule about ramadan, not at all
btw, ramadan is not for:children, ill people,pregnant women, very old ones, travellers, and during war.

so as always you say only rubbish, but go on, you're so fun

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Whaty you cite, Jim, comes from the Jewish Old Testament and to those not brain-washed in blind philo-semitism it is historical fact that the Hebrews of ancient times regarded all the other nations (goyim) as ... well - trash. The other Asiatic peoples of that time weren't any different, however.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

lolo,

As usual you are completely wrong, and only spout misinformation. Too bad your knowledge of history only goes back to the 19th century, otherwise you wouldn't say "we never burnt".

A quick search off the Internet finds:
(1758 - French troops burn at the stake the Haitian rebel slave leader Mackandal.) http://www.mpsc839.org/_Info/ALMANAC/01JAN/26.HTM
(1755 - during French and Indian war in America 12 of Braddock�s captured redcoats were burned alive at the stake.) http://www.rickriordan.com/french_and_indian_war.htm
1244 The Cathars, a group of Catholic heretics, settled at Montsegur, France, in the Ariege region. They were besieged for more than a year and ended up burned at the stake because they refused to submit.
http://timelines.ws/countries/FRANCE00_1649.HTML
- Cathar Castles: Montségur - At the bottom of the pog on which the Castle sat is a monument next the the field where 225 Parfits were burned alive. They were herded into a specially made pen in the early morning of 16th March. They included three generations of one family - Grandmother, Mother and Daughter. People still leave flowers there.
http://www.languedoc-france.info/120719b_montsegur.htm
- and let's not forget Joan of Arc who the French handed over to the English knowing she would be burned alive and made no effort to stop it even though they easily could have.

The practice was so common in France that the French have a word for the act of burning people alive - they call it a Bûché. There is no exact conterpart in English. The nearest we have is "burn at the stake". You may see the word translated in some literature as massacre or occasionally left as bûché in English translations.

Since the U.S. and Iraqi government did not initiate any conflict in Fallujah until the end of the Ramapajama Muslem holy month, then an active "state of war" did not exist, and there is a very good chance that many devout Muslems in Fallujah were fasting, growing weaker before the battle. Of course, you don't understand complex things like this very well, but that's why you spend countless hours here every single day instead of at a complex job.

Posted by: Pin Boy

true conner, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, it happens too often...but even a blind man can see that the assault on Fallujah was deliberately delayed until after the election and whatever criticism the president might face would not matter because now he has carte blanche to conduct this war any way he wishes...could there have been any positives for the prez.'s reelection chances if he charged Fallujah before the election? Of course not so the attack was politically timed. Dead soldiers don't bring any political capital. I can see how other things are obviously timed politically and there are legitimate political reasons in some cases but this one was just too blatant...I'm not totally against all of Bush's actions but I think in this case the political ramifications outweighed the military objectives in conducting the offensive....

as far as the prez visiting wounded soldiers discreetly, I have no knowledge of that and I hope it is true...but it will be interesting if he now becomes more visible in those situations and even appears at some military funerals...God bless everyone on both sides and on this forum as well

pin boy

Posted by: lolomarseille

hi hi!
flash is really...wonderfull
well, "ramapajama month" doesn't exist, except in your amazing brain
so all your post has no value
but as i feel good, let's teach again:
about ramadan rules: "war" is said by an iman, delivering a fatwa ( for sunni, not shi'ya) so, the terrorists don't care about what the govt said, be sure!
pin boy, don't be in conspiracy theories
us attacked fallujah late coz they needed time( not enough troops), coz the emergency was with the shi'ite, and coz the motto was to strengh Allawi with a deal with the tribes
it succeed btw, terrorists and national resistance loosed their stronghold, americans have a real chance to pacify sunni till few years

Posted by: FlashingEyes

lolo,

Maybe McDonald's is hiring. Good luck in the job search.

Posted by: Vyesna

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
lolo,

As usual you are completely wrong, and only spout misinformation. Too bad your knowledge of history only goes back to the 19th century, otherwise you wouldn't say "we never burnt". Joan of Arc wouldn't agree, I'm afraid.

Actually, it was the English who burnt Joan of Arc.

Posted by: lolomarseille

da!
but as i'm not benevolent teacher, :-))

Posted by: parasionok

Flesh,

the French didn't burn anyone. It was inquisition. Also the Government, Think about Themplars

What are we talking about anyway? Americans just shoot

doesn it make them so different from the English, French, Russians, Germans? Does it make any difference what methods we use to kill the innocent? I am just wondering why people who are against the war are so hated by someone like you???????????

I know you like to google, so google Hiroshima....

Posted by: rob_we

Jim,
actually most of the stuff that we believe as christians (about jesus) is from John who also did the Apocalypse

. He never saw Jesus, of course never spoke to him wrote what he heard or thought and was taken several times to the council of the church that time because he was seen as a lunatic back then

The proof to this is in the scipts of Quamran who vanished in the archives of the katholic church shortly after they were found in 1948 handed from israel to the vatican after the vatican approved israel to be an independent country as one of the first serious countries in the world

! Funny isn´t it. (by the way im katholic but of course european, and excuse my bad english

)

Posted by: Khashyar

I believe that nearly every culture has done horrible things.

My American culture has hanged witches in Salem, Mass., massacred American Indians because we wanted their land (at Sand Creek, for example, American soldiers cut off American Indian women's breasts and men's testicles and kept them for souvenirs). Recently, my country's soldiers tortured prisoners.

So, nearly every country has black and imperfect marks in their history, including the French, U.S., Russian, Roman and British cultures.

From what I understand, Christ was a very compassionate person who talked about peace, love and forgiveness.

I think that every leader should follow His example.

Here is some of what Christ was said to have said, which I hope that all of our political leaders would follow:

-"You have heard that is was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill; and whomever kills shall be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; ...whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell and fire."

-"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;" (I wonder how Christ would feel about war?)

-"You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbors and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecure you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;"

-"Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you." (This is why I believe that Christ would want to take care of the needs of all the poor people in the world)."

-"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust comsumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

-"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

-"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit... Thus you will know them by their fruits."

Khashyar

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by Khashyar: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;" (I wonder how Christ would feel about war?) Khashyar

Excellent post & valid question. Is Jesus the epitome of pacifism of the post-Roman world? I have wondered this myself. His teachings obviously express God's abhorrence of war, the worst part of human existence.

But for one who footnotes so much of his ministry to the Old Testament, he never really disowns the wisdom of Solomon's Ecclesiastical finding that there is a 'time for war & a time for peace'. His admonition in Matthew to 'beat your slaves' is seized upon by his critics as proof that human liberty is at least elastical with the man from Nazareth.

When is violence a valid exercise among humans?

Is the ministry of Jesus (love, compassion, forgiveness, forbearance) even relevant to the sensibilities of humanity in the 21st century? Does it square with the egalitarian goal of engineering equality to as many humans as possible?

Posted by: Jutman

names

Joan d'darc is in french and danish: jeanne d'arrc

God is in danish Gud and btw 'god' = good.
'John' is in danish Johannes.

and as aDane I want to use a tale from HC Andersen in connection to the bible who has minimum 200 variants. Which is one is the rigth one? Same case with the Koran in Islam.

and the tale I want to use is: The feather who became 5 hens. since its science today that none of his 12 dudes could read and write it took several years before anybody start write the story down. The last was wriiten 1st time 220 -> 230 years after that carpent son walked at the surface of the earth.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

In Matthew 10:34, Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Jesus preached peaceful action in many cases, especially everyday life, but also preached that there was a time to fight.

Posted by: rob_we

I wonder why all those "good" christians who are so convinced that Jesus wanted us to murder and crusade, are sitting at home on their asses instead of going there and fight for their belief!
(I mean he really showed throughout his life how much he was into killing others

)

...Fundamentalists of the worl unite, stop preaching, do finally whats "right", go fight each other, kill each other, and just leave the rest of us allone. Its gonna be such a nice place then on earth when you are gone

".... some of you may die, but it´s a sacrifice, I´m willing to take..."

Lord Farquaad

ahh and by the way due to this interpretation we have to kill our parents too if they have a different opinion...
I mean some may think to get rid of their mother in law with that

Quote:

Matthew 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by rob_we: I wonder why all those "good" christians who are so convinced that Jesus wanted us to murder and crusade, are sitting at home on their asses instead of going there and fight for their belief!

Well... if you mean against a murderous psychopathic family... such as Saddam & his sons... mission accomplished.

Quote:

Fundamentalists of the worl unite, stop preaching, do finally whats "right", go fight each other, kill each other, and just leave the rest of us allone. Its gonna be such a nice place then on earth when you are gone

And when murderous tyrants come to power what will the humanist pacifists do? Stand around & watch, like they are already doing?

Quote:

ahh and by the way due to this interpretation we have to kill our parents too if they have a different opinion...
I mean some may think to get rid of their mother in law with that

The quote from Matthew 10:35. Total misinterpretation of what it is being discussed. You might want to read the entire book to understand what Jesus was saying, what his focus is upon, which was the conduct of the Jewish religion in Jerusalem. A revolutionary change of thought can divide families, but not by means of violence, more accurately by the change of thought & behavior. Where is the admonition to violence? Rob you can do better than this!

Posted by: rob_we

BradIl

Quote:

Of course it is wrong interpreted Brad. As 10:34 is to me in this context before. Thats why i posted it

. I won´r go into bible interpretation though. Bible interpretation is as useless as to interpret art or poetry. You can interpret anything you want to justify anything you want as done by all those "holy warriors" since the dawn of time... To take one line out of a context written by whomever 2000 years ago is just a poor attept of justifying somthing that is known to be wrong anyway. I personally read out of this context something absolutely different. Actually I wonder why the first line should not refer to the follow ups? Its just the introduction to the explanation that follows. Wouldn´t make sense to me if it would be about something completely different. So either your interpretation is right, whoever wrote or said this, which is much about what I personally think, but then the first line refers also exactly to this, so its about a dispute and not about killing, or its about killing others, then it would consequently also refer to your family and end in the fearuring of a totalitarian state! All the attempts to justify "holy wars" end in the same ****, and proof that a war can´t be holy. I just think its funny how anybody tries to proof his point with religious backgrounds and make a guy or an idea whos major attempt was to show that the belief in the good, whatever it may be, does not mean to impose but to convince.
Those people who "follow" the bible like this are exactly the same who nailed the guy, or the idea as their successors did since 2000 years with his successors ....

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Everyone...

I'm going to delete the last 3 posts of this thread because the discussion was too personal and off-topic (I am trying to take good care of the health and good atmosphere of the forum

)...

I would rather that personal criticisms be talked about in private messages (and that even then, that we try to be kind to one another....)

Thanks

Khashyar

Posted by: FlashingEyes

It's hilarious how a tribal European only 50 years removed from human atrocities so terrible and on such a massive scale, and occuring precisely because of the downfall (and more than downfall - hatred is more accurate) of religious influence in [European] society during the mid 20th century - actions that were only stopped by the intervention of the advanced, highly religious society of America - would want to criticize others for being too religious. I guess the tribal [Europeans] still hate religious people.

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi guys...

Jesus said something like "those who are without sin cast the first stone."

We all know that every culture has committed its atrocities.

The German leadership horribly killed many jews, just as the Americans massacred many Native Americans and wrongly took land away from patriotic Japanese-Americans during the same Second World War. The English and Protestan Americans hung "witches."

So, I don't think it is helpful or accurate to judge ourselves as better than others.

Actually, I think that it is more helpful to think about the atrocities that are occuring today.

For example, why have we not put troops in Africa where hundres of thousands of people are being massacred? I personally would have rather used our troops in Africa to stop the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the Sudan, rather than committed our troops in Iraq. this is my personal opinion.

But, I think that it is most helpful for a society to look at how it can improve itself, and to think about the wrongs that it has done, and then better itself and become a better society.

I want to think about how as an American, I can improve my American society.

And even most importantly, I want to think about how I personally can improve as an individual, since we really have the most control over ourselves.

They give this advice in relationships, families and marriages (to work on changing what you can change in yourself), and I think that this also applies to countries and societies as a whole.

How can we become a country that lives the example of Christ?

How can we each become more Christ-like?

If Christ were here right in front of us, what would he say about our own personal lives, and the actions and condition of our country?

Would Christ focus on feeding more hungry people in the world?

Would Christ put more troops in Iraq?

What would Jesus think about how we are impacting the environment?

What would Christ say about how each of us is behaving in this forum?

I think these are helpful and important questions that we each must ask of ourselves.

Khashyar

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Preaching is only effective if you have a strong enough background in divinity to truly understand the Word on a level where it's no longer your opinion that you're spouting but solely the Truth.

How can we become a country that lives the example of Christ?
- if the West Coast and Northeast become more like the rest of the country it would be a huge step.

How can we each become more Christ-like?
- why do you assume that all of us have the same, exact calling? Since Christ was a perfect sacrifice, I don't think any of us have to become sacrifices. We have other callings.

If Christ were here right in front of us, what would he say about our own personal lives, and the actions and condition of our country?
- he would say "wow things sure have changed..can I play some X-Box? seriously, his teaching was to do that which is necessary and useful for your country ("Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's").

Would Christ focus on feeding more hungry people in the world?
- While Christ fed those around him on occasion, he allowed massive hunger and suffering to exist in parts of the world. It was clearly not his example that feeding everyone all the time was more important than other important matters.

Would Christ put more troops in Iraq?
- Christ wasn't concerned with governmental necessities, although he did preach that these should be respected. But since noone can answer this question, any answer is as good as the next...lessee...He might advise we pull out the troops and nuke the country for lost (but use neutron bombs to minimalize damage to the oil).

What would Jesus think about how we are impacting the environment?
- I think it would be low on his priority list, if it appeared at all. He wasn't concerned with governmental matters, although he did preach that these should be respected.

What would Christ say about how each of us is behaving in this forum?
- He would say to all of you to learn from MY example (or do YOU presume to think that you know Christ's mind better than I do? See what I'm saying about good intentions not being enough to make you a preacher...)

Posted by: Khashyar

I think that if people lived closer to the example of how Christ lived, then there would be far fewer problems in the world.

I think that a person can read the New Testament and see how Christ lived and what he preached, and learn from his example.

"How can we become a country that lives the example of Christ?
- if the West Coast and Northeast become more like the rest of the country it would be a huge step."

Christ was very tolerant of different kinds of people (as he showed by befriending a prostitute, and showing compassion to a leper). Christ said: "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." Christ preached about not judging other people, and looking at the log in ones own eye before finding the speck in another's eye. Christ, again: "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck our of your brother's eye."

"How can we each become more Christ-like?
- why do you assume that all of us have the same, exact calling? Since Christ was a perfect sacrifice, I don't think any of us have to become sacrifices. We have other callings."

I don't think that we all need to sacrifice ourselves, but it is important to live the beliefs that you have. If a person is a Christian, then they need to live as close to a perfect Christian life as possible, or else what they preach will seem hypocritical. Just because a person cannot be perfect, it doesn't mean that they should not strive to follow Christ's teachings as closely as possible. Actually, Christ says: "You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." He is calling upon us to be as close as example to God as possible.

"If Christ were here right in front of us, what would he say about our own personal lives, and the actions and condition of our country?
- he would say "wow things sure have changed..can I play some X-Box? seriously, his teaching was to do that which is necessary and useful for your country ("Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's")."

I thought that the "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasars" referred to not be possessive about money and material things, but to focus on living a spiritual life since that is of God. He also spoke about living a good spiritual life, and I assume that he felt that our political leaders should also live good moral spiritual lives, which includes following the spiritual teachings of Christ. Regarding peace, Christ said "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." I did not read in the Bible where it said "Blessed are those who begin wars and armed conflicts...."

"Would Christ focus on feeding more hungry people in the world?
- While Christ fed those around him on occasion, he allowed massive hunger and suffering to exist in parts of the world. It was clearly not his example that feeding everyone all the time was more important than other important matters."

I don't recall in the New Testament where he speaks about not feeding the poor. If anything, in all of his words, the spirit of what he says refers to giving to others what they need, and being compassionate to others.

In fact, Christ says: "Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you." I think that Christ's words are pretty clear about giving to those who are truly needy.

He also said: ""If you would be perfect, go sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;"

"Would Christ put more troops in Iraq?
- Christ wasn't concerned with governmental necessities, although he did preach that these should be respected. But since noone can answer this question, any answer is as good as the next...lessee...He might advise we pull out the troops and nuke the country for lost (but use neutron bombs to minimalize damage to the oil)."

Of course he would never suggest nuking another country. Christ said: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." I never once read where Christ said that a country should go to war. In fact, the body of what Christ said speaks about compassion and peace and forgiveness, and not killing and war.

He also said in Matthew: "You shall not kill... You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

"What would Jesus think about how we are impacting the environment?
- I think it would be low on his priority list, if it appeared at all. He wasn't concerned with governmental matters, although he did preach that these should be respected."

I don't really recall where he refers to the environment in the New Testament. But, obviously if the earth is mistreated and not fit for people to live on it, then this would cause suffering to people, and one of Christ's main messages and purposes was to relieve people's suffering. So, it seems that Christ would not want to do what would create suffering and pain, and so the compassionate thing might be to take care of the environment so that people don't have to suffer later.

"What would Christ say about how each of us is behaving in this forum?
- He would say to all of you to learn from MY example (or do YOU presume to think that you know Christ's mind better than I do? See what I'm saying about good intentions not being enough to make you a preacher...)"

I am not saying that I know Christ's mind better than you do, or better than anyone else. However, I think that Christ's words are very clearly in the Bible, and that we don't need a preacher or any other person to be able to read what Christ said and means. This is for every person to clarify in their own heart.

But, if we look at Christ's words, here is some of what Christ said, that as Christians, we should follow his words and examples:

"...I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgement; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the counsel, and whoever says 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..."

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get."

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

"But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.... And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

Those are some of the verses that I found in the New Testament from Christ's own words.

I think that if everyone followed these words of Christ in the forum, then there would never be a flame or disrespectful exchange.

I wish that Christ, as the compassionate and kind person he was, was one of our moderators

(I would also welcome Buddha, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Krishna, and other great compassionate and kind spiritual leaders).

Khashyar

Posted by: FlashingEyes

I wasn't aware that Christ wrote the Bible. When was this? I had always thought he deliberately left no written record, in order that we would pray directly to God for absolute confirmation of his purpose, rather than rely on something of this world. But you seem to think you know Christ's mind better than I do because you can quote the Bible in a partial context. Hmm...

I do however remember in the examples that men record about Christ more than one disrespectful exchange between him and others, the others being in some cases men of great spirituality (I even recall it said he told his own mother a phrase which we translate in English as "what have you got to do with me" or something similar but it's actual meaning is more like a cross between "mind your own business" and "f off". You can find this in your precious Bible at the story of the wedding, where he created extra wine so the well-fed few invited to that particular wedding could get extra drunk (but he did NOT create food that night for the rest of the world, although some people somewhere undoubtably were very hungry that night). These were exchanges with people you would think he would tend to show the greatest respect for. With your average everyday person he could be very critical at times. So from Christ's example I think we could conclude if he were here there would be some flames.

Posted by: lolomarseille

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
It's hilarious how a tribal European only 50 years removed from human atrocities so terrible and on such a massive scale, and occuring precisely because of the downfall (and more than downfall - hatred is more accurate) of religious influence in Germanic society during the mid 20th century - actions that were only stopped by the intervention of the advanced, highly religious society of America - would want to criticize others for being too religious. I guess the tribal Germans still hate religious people.

sometimes i would boil you , as a good tribal i'm suppposed to be

it's during eisenhower that " e pluribus unum" was removed and that " in god we trust " came

about religion, war, death penalty, social security, well yes i'm proud to be european and all lessons from some ( not all ) ignorant dammet imperialist( or not so, just rednecks) are irrelevant
and flash, i'm better human being than you yes
( and down with people saying i'm not tolerant, ah ah ah)

Posted by: rob_we

Flash
I wonder what you are so proud of? Are you the "better race"? ....[edited] ...Being born somewhere doesn´t give you any special position to look down on people that you don´t even understand their language.
Europe has a culture that goes back several thousand years. 99% of all major philosophers are european, most of the artists.
Im not proud of this because I happened to be born there. That is not my merit. Actually in our history some years ago we had very similar thoughts than you post here all the time. The idea of being superior is called Fashism. The attitude of even thinking that you are better then others is called fashistic. The way of talking about "tribal" europe without even having the slightest idea whats going on, is called ignorance. In fact and in opposite to you I can read and understand german, and compare what was written back then here. I see some paralels, to the nationalistic european thoughts about 100 years ago in this.
Its just sad that this 19 century attitude still exists in the 21 century, and that someone can even be proud of it....

Posted by: FlashingEyes

I don't believe one society is superior, but I do believe ideas can be superior. I believe that a society filled with ideas of hatred of religious people is idealistically flawed. It's sad that Americans have moved so far beyond focusing on nationalism and instead mostly focus on ideas while tribal Europeans are still stuck in the thinking of 200 years ago.

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Flashing...

Of course Christ did not write the Bible

These are the words that Christ are supposed to have spoken. AS I am sure that you know, the New Testament in general is considered by Christians to have been inspired and/or written by God through inspired men.

I also think that it would be easy to take Christ's wrods out of context, so rather than putting great weight on one sentence or phrase, I think that the body of Christ's words, taken as a whole, better show Christ's beliefs and intentions.

I don't agree that Christ would initiate flames, since so many times he spoke about having good relationships and peace with your neighbor, and not acting in anger or judgment. We can "agree to disagree" about this.

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Lolo, Rob and Flash...

I hope that you know that I welcome active and diverse discussions, and for all of us to express our difference of opinions.

We need to please stop attacking a person's culture, as well as leveling personal attacks.

This does not help create a hospitable environment in this forum.

I know that there are some real difference of opinions between some Americans and some Europeans, but I am sure that we can talk about these differences without pesonally attacking an entire people's country, or through personal attacks.

I am considering going through and editing out the personal attacks in this thread, since they are not in the spirit of our forum's guidelines...

Thank you for your understanding, and for disagreeing and even having passionate disagreements without using personal or cultural attacks.
Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

I edited out some of what I considered personal attacks in the last few posts...

Khashyar

Posted by: lolomarseille

true that there is nothing to answer to flash
.../...

Posted by: Khashyar

I think that if a person really completely disagrees with another person, and they know that responding with anger will only create verbal fights, then I think that it is better just not to respond

It is like if you have a neighbor in your town who really gets on your nerves... It is better just to ignore them, rather than upset the other neighbors...

Khashyar

Posted by: lolomarseille

i've such neighbor hi hi
but with our friend i couldn't resist :-))
of course you're right in theory
but when some write me like on pravda.ru, i answer like on pravda.ru, even if i don't go on pravda.ru

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim_FL
Dear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination...end of debate. I do need some advice from
you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow
them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How
should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread(cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
Why can't I own Canadians?

--Nope, you friend is wrong... as Americans we can own Canuks....

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

-- Depends... how good looking is she and is she really, really submisive?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15: 19-24). The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

-- Hmmm well, if she is doing a fairly good immitation of Linda Blair in the excorsits that would be a real good clue...

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is, my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

-- Absolutely! They are obviously uncircumsized and an abomination before the Lord your God!!

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

-- Hmmm the prefered method states that you should gather all of the righteous men and stone the S.O.B.!

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

--This one is simple... He is unclean.... has to wash himself and remain seperate from Isreal for 7 days. Everything must be washed and he must shave his head, rent his tunic (ok shirt will do here) cover himself in ash and fast and pray for those 7 days.

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

-- Sorry, you're going to have to have a priest pluck out the offense. Better blind than defective I always say!

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How
should they die?

-- Again, the prefered method is Stoning!

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

-- Fortunately, there are Kosher versions of the pigskin Id say you should opt for one of these or you have to shave your head, rent your tunic, cover yourself in ashes, fast and pray for 7 days.

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread(cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

-- Sorry, but they have to be stoned....

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Any time I can be of help gosh, just let me know....

Sincerly,
George Bush

Report

Posted by: lolomarseille

Depends... how good looking is she and is she really, really submisive?

this one i understood....
may be religion is not so bad?

Posted by: rob_we

guys,

Quote:

-- Sorry, but they have to be stoned....

...

Theres a FUNDAMENTAL misunderstanding here taking place for thousands of years. Actually the guys who wrote that stuff were quite cool...and all they said was, "If you want to really have fun in life you have to be either pissed or stoned..."
Just someone misinterpreted this badly as usual...

Posted by: lolomarseille

father helmut is the new nikon patriarch!
he rewrites the holy text!

oooh yeah i wait the schism!