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help wanted marriage in trouble !!
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Posted by: martin3030

I am living in the UK and last year after 9 months of being single decided to have a look on the internet.
On one site I found a Russian girl who seemed to want everything I wanted.
I had a succesful business here and never really wanted for anything.
Over a couple of months we chatted online and spent hours on the phone.
We decided on a meeting and In November I made my first visit outside the UK after the nightmare preparations of visas hotels and travel to Moscow.
I had spent every waking hour learning about culture language and other peoples experiences bu sleeping on my pc.
We spent a week together and she told me We needed to go to the embassy in Moscow where I applied for a marriage fiance visa.I had come prepared with all my documents and duly paid my 14000 roubles to them.
After returning home I was exited at the prospect of returning and made arrangements to go back for the new year and Russian Christmas.This time I was going to meet her family in south russia.
She was 24 but had left home at 17 to go first to music college in Stavropol and then to Moscow where she had a regular evening job singing in restaurants.
Her parents were looking forward to meeting me ...as well as seeing her again.We decided to get engaged there and had a wonderful time non of her family speak English but my new fiance was pretty good at translating.
Coming back Through Moscow we again went to the embassy informing them of our engagement......but they had no news.
On arrival home she tokd me that they were requesting some final papers from me and could I get them there fast.I went out and bought a fax machine and faxed them to her and next day she went to Embassy with them.
One hour later I got the call to say she had been given the visa and was ecstatic I immediately set about arranging her flight and sent her the money by western union.
4 days later she was here I had asked all my friends to help me make sure the house was looking ok for her arrival.
We started to plan for the wedding and arranged a date 8 weeks forward.Everything was ready for the big day and we married here in England followed next day by again going to Russia where her family were waiting.
We had the traditional wedding celebrations which lasted 5 days.
From being married it was 7 days before we consumated it,..something I was very unhappy about but she made every excuse in the book to prevent it.
She gave in when I said it was abnormal and it was upsetting me.
During our 10 day stay there we managed only 1 more night of passion.
Returning home we applied for her new visa which would allow her to work.
My business was suffering badly and I was at a crisis with things not going right financially.......I had spent almost 5 thousand pounds in 4 months..........I had been let down with my business as freinds running it were stealing .
After 2 months of marriage I no longer had my business I had started to sell of many of my assets to pay debts.
The pressure on me began to show and I wanted to protect my wife but she quarrelled with me telling me she needede to know everything.
To cut a long story short I got my wife on at college part time to study language.
I spent 300.00 dollars getting her portfolio photos for singing
then another 1000 dollars on equipment includind professional radio mic and mini disc player amp speakers mixer etc.
I was now faced with daily demands she wanted a persian cat.....................I got one now it is sharing the bed.
She wanted exercise equipment.......................I got her 2
demand after demand...............I said to her that It was looking like I was being used and she didnt speak for 2 days.
Lately I have noticed that in bed she tirns away when I come to bed no longer does she want to go out with me alone for a drink it has to be with friends.
This moerning she dressed in a short skirt stockings and a thong to go to college she has never worn the stockings before .....I bought them for her last valentines day!!!!
When I asked her why she was wearing this she pushed past me hitting me in the face and stormed out.
Before she went she said I dont know when I will be back.
She has never stayed out before but is always complainung that She needs to go out with friends.
I work in a bar every friday and Saturday night and let her go out on Friday.
When I ask If we can go out together on Sunday she says I should go out with my mates......................I am not one of them guys who likes to get drunk with the boys.
She has been out all day and now about 9 hours its 8 pm.
There are people I know who she will be with but as non of them are in a steady relationship I am now feeling what I should do.
I am increasingly thinking I am being used and at the end of my patience.
We now spend half of our time arguing and the other half not speaking...............I feel very much like contacting her mum she thinks the world of me but she does not speak English but I would love to send a simple sms to her just to let her know.
I heard she said to her daughter if you ever hurt this man I will kill you.................it seemed strange to hear that.
I am hoping that someone can read between these lines and give an honest opinion.
I just do not know which way to turn I have given up lots of my friends for her and some did not agree with this relationship.
My mother thinks the world of her so if I went there she would take her side !!!

Any thoughts please

Posted by: mria

I just read your story. I feel sorry you for you. You seem kind.
But as I have learned on this forum, there is always two sides to a story. She sounds young from her behaviour, but very intelligent because she seems to have fitted in so well into another culture; almost effortlessly. From a woman's point of view, its weird that she's wearing your sexy present for others and not for you.
Either way, you have to sort this ****out.

Posted by: Missouri

Martin- I'm sure you realize that you and her need to talk- Maybe a counselor would help- Maybe some British lady ( I think you are in England) who is fluent in Russian, possibly a lady on this forum- or you could ask Lena and Khashayar who they know in England. I wish you luck- But you two have got to talk!

The sex issue would bother me tremedously. 7 days??? It's good that you have patience.

I do not like it when people criticize... but... A mature spouse would try to help in your business- if there was something she could do, to help.

Posted by: martin3030

Thank you for your replies.
She is young but as I have found out....she always has the answers that she thinks are right.
I am 46 and she is 24 her previous partners in Russia have all been older.
I get on fabulously with all her family some of whome are younger than me.
But I do not look my age and am very young at heart some of my best freinds are same age as her.
I have always spoken to her with wisdom and taught her lots of things like having understanding patience and always to be prepared to take positives from mistakes.....after all mistakes are there to be learned from.
My wife is almost perfectly fluent in English and we have no communication problems in that area.
I have always told her she is part of me...I tell her evertday that I love her
I tell her that she is the most beautiful girl in the world
I tell her that her voice is the sweetest I have ever heard.....but I think she takes these words for granted now.
It was recently our 6 month anniversary for marriage I got up early and went out for a card and some roses I also got some wine and strawberries and got out our wedding cards again......I got the impression she was not as happy as I would have thought............we did this after 3 months and it was great .
I am beginning to wonder if the sex issue is something that has happened in the past I have asked about it but with no response.
Usually in our situ it would be the younger partner complaining but I think once a week is not enough although I do agree its the heat of the moment that really matters.
Tonight I noticed she had gone out without her engagement ring which in England is important I sent her sms but she did not reply.
I was so annoyed and also disappointed that I called her family and spoke to her sister I explained that I was not happy of her simply staying out all night and I didnt know where she was.
Her sister told her mum and I beleive her mum called her and told her she was worried and to go home.
At 10.00 pm she came home ......this is from 9 in the morning.
It was obvious she had been drinking and she flew at me punching me in the mouth.
She said I shouldnt have called her family........but I think if her mother had not called her then she would have stayed out.
She is now sleeping off what looks loke a hangover.......but still no explanation and how she can be drunk with the 2.00 she went out with.
It is my belief that she has been making plans already and other people are not making things easy by keepimg these secrets.
I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect but I certainly dont deserve this.
She is 6 months into the 2 year residence visa and she gives me the impression that even without our marriage she can find a way to stay here.
We have spent hours talking usually with me meeting her demands.Things are ok for a day then sparks fly again for the slightest thing.
Recently she said maybe she was asking too much of me........I think it has got to the stage where maybe she is.
I only wish I had saw this before I did everything I have done already.
I am feeling emotionally drained and cannot see how things can change now.

Martin

Posted by: mria

Just flicked back onto the forum again and saw your reply.
You shouldn't have rung her family-thats an invasion of her sphere, and you are behaving like a father, not a husband if you do that.
But she's violent, and she's punched you so you have to end the relationship, because it will only get worse, and it is abuse-emotional and now physical.

Posted by: sidney

A relationship can not continue like this. It seems to have only gotten worse with the violence. You have to sit down and talk. Find what is bothering her or what she expects. Make it clear that you will not put up what is happening. Sometimes you have to be the strong one in a relationship.
Sid

Posted by: AkMike

This brings up so many thoughts about my ex-wife. Martin, CUT YOUR LOSSES!!!!
She has other interests and it doesn't sound like you're in them.
Sorry but that's my take on it.
Ask her if she'd rather be back in Russia since with out the visa that's where she's headed. It won't help probably but it might wake her up.

Posted by: Jill

Martin, I am really sorry to hear about your situation. It seems like there may have been some warnings signs (or at least it seems you rushed into this rrelationship), but it's obviously too late for that now

I usually don't suggest this, however I think you should sit this young lady down and read her the riot act. No more "you're beautiful," "you have such a sweet voice." You've got to tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and destructive and if she has even a shred of love and respect for you left, she's got to get her act together. If not, do svidanya and don't let the door hit you in the

on the way out.

What's that saying? "If you love something set it free; if it comes back to you, it's yours; if not, it never was."

I'm really sorry to have to say these things and I could be wrong, but this is my opinion based on what you've written.

Tell her that you are still committed to making this marriage work (if you are), but you are NOT willing to be used and abused by her. Let her decide if she's still in or not, but whatever she decides, stick to your guns.

Good luck to you!

Posted by: rtking

Martin, I was very sad to read your post. I would encourage you to listen to the post of others... it doesn't sound like a good situation. I especially don't like that there's physical abuse involved.

A satirical twist to Jill's advice that I repeat to myself in dark moments to help me laugh:

"If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back... hunt it down and kill it."

Good luck in your situation.

Bob

Posted by: lester

Martin, this is a sorry situation to be in and must be resolved ASAP!

Take advantage of the 30minute free time with a good solicitor,
get everything recorded on paper, as I fear you will need solicitor help as the last resort.

Are you able to consult with the vicar who married you? or was a registry office the venue. Clergy are often well trained marriage councillors.

You are in St.Helens, Lancashire? there are forum members in Manchester area for sure, perhaps your wife is very homesick
and talking to another russian speaker will help to get to the
root cause of this situation.

Good Luck and remember you are not alone, there are sincere
people in this world who will try to help you!

Posted by: wavetossed

When she hit you in the mouth, did she break the skin? If so, you should call the police and report the assault. This is a clear case of spousal abuse and you should not ignore it.

Next you need to consult with a solicitor. Ask the solicitor about the assualt and whether or not you should have it examined by a doctor to provide a witness for a future court case. This is not a normal divorce case and you should tell the solicitor that. This is a case of immigration fraud and you are the victim that was seduced into marrying this Russian woman.

I'm sure that you will have a lot of emotional turmoil finding yourself on the receiving end of spousal abuse, and being the victim of a Russian scammer. However, these things WILL pass. Live and learn.

Don't ignore the immigration fraud aspect of this case. You need to take the initiative and raise this issue yourself or you could very well find yourself being charged and jailed.

By the way, I suspect that the family was in on the scam. That's why the mother told the daughter not to screw up or she would kill her. They wanted the daughter to get citizenship and then sponsor the family.

In future, don't be so nice and don't bow to every demand that a woman makes. If it leads to fireworks that is a good thing because it tests whether or not there is a real relationship there.

Posted by: martin3030

These words are both comfoting and encouraging.
Both my ex partners were violent towards me and my wife knows about it.......One of the main reasons I chose to look for a partner from another country was to avoid this again.
We were married in a register office ...so no vicar.
My wife has approached 2 Russian restaurants in England for work as a singer.........I think she believes she will be able to stay in England if she has work.
I have found she is very good at manipulating situations for her own good.
What I havnt mentioned though is that My wife has arranged with a freind of mine to meet her Aunty in December.
She is Russian but they have arranged a holiday in Greece he has sent money over they have never met yet and only bbeen in contact for 4 weeks.
MY friend has been at our house constantly because her Aunty speaks no English so my wife has had to do lots of interpretations.
I wondered why she was choosing to nurture this relation when she was not really trying as hard with her own.
This guy is a Karaoke operator and has all the equipment my wife needs I am now reading something that I could not see before.
I know she called him last night and I am thinking that she will use him now that she sees I am at the stage of calling it a day.
Little things that at the time seemed harmless are now beginning to fall into place rather like a Jigsaw.
She told me last night she does not need my equipment and I can stick it up my ****
She has lots of Russian friends whome she calls and sms regularly
I encourage her to have this contact and buy her airtime for her mobile to do it.
She also calls parents every week.
She has also met a Russian girl at college here this week and they have been shopping together but I havnt met her.
I dont know whether to call the Embassy and ask them for advice as theres no way I want her using me.
I told her before she goes back to Russia I want her to sign an Affidavit to say the marriage is over.........but she just laughed.
I dont think deep down she wants to return to Russia.....at least not permanently after I see her preparing so many safety nets for herself here too.
With someone who continually seeks to be one step ahead its hard.
I still love her but lots of my respect has gone and I am frightened
I have given so much and had great expectations maybe after I told her she would be a great success here with her singing she has decided she doesnt want me being a part of it.
Maybe now neither of us will ever see it happen !!!

Martin

Posted by: wavetossed

Don't call the embassy, Martin. Call the police. A crime has been committed and embassies do not deal with crimes. It would be wise to consult with a solicitor before calling the police because of the immigration fraud aspect. This is something that you cannot leave another day. You need to find a solicitor today and talk to the police today.

If you are lucky, you will get out of this without losing half of your remaining assets. Act today!

Posted by: martin3030

Wavetossed no she didnt break the skin.....she actually threw a barrage of punches not just 1.
In reply to your question I am thinking of contacting the immigration office today.............One thing I am clear about is that she was desperate to come here looking back I should have been more careful.
However I have to say that I believe originally her heart was in the right place and I do think there was love there.
She has looked after me very well its only in the last few weeks I have seen her change and all her plans that ont seem to include me.
Her parents are very good to me and I have met all her extended family I have been to their houses in Turchesk Stavropol and Moscow.
She left home at 17 and her family were distraught as she completed only part of her college before moving to start singing in Restaurants there.From what I now know they have actually seen their daughter more times since we been together than in the last couple of years !!!
They are lovely people especially the grandmothers who make all the homemade food for me from their garden.
One woman in the town actually named a new calf after me calling it Martinski.
Her parents town Mednoghorski is only small 17.000 people.
It is in the mountain valleys north of Stavropol and I am always well received there.
My wife said recently....even if our marriage failed and we split up her parents would still want me to visit as they love me so much.
So its not really them........I think they will be supporting me as they are very aware of all that I have done.
When I am there they will not let me spend 1 penny !!!!!!!

Ahhh well.............................................. ...nice to hear your thoughts I am very grateful for them thank you to you all.

Posted by: mria

I think if a girl chooses to spend lots of time away from her family, there are lots of issues that aren't visible to the naked eye. I think her issues are childhood, and probably related to her family. She's got a lot of anger inside her and she's taking it out on you.

From my own experience, I'd never trust a family who was willing to be friendlier and kinder to their daughter's husband than to their own daughter. Its a kind of "well now you see what we had to put up with", " I'm glad she's been taken off our hands" attitude.If she's got the kind of family who are willing to take your side over hers, then I'm not suprised she's doing everything in her power not to be sent back to them.If I was her, I'd be feeling betrayed by my family completely.
You can't cure her and it will only get worse. The problem is, instead of facing them, she's taking it out on you. The angrier she feels, for whatever reason-NOT related to anything YOU do or say, the more the violence will increase. Its really a hopeless case.

Its NOT your fault, because its not connected to you, if you see what I mean. Some people take it out on themselves (cutting) and some people take it out on the people closest to them. Also, imagine in a divorce case--the children are lovely and sweet to the parent they spend the least time with, on visits, and are naughty for the full-time parent. Its because its a gallling fact of human nature that we are often the least nice to the people closest to us, because we don't have to earn their love. This is why she was nice to you in the beginning and then with time, became like this. She is 100% sure you won't divorce her and send her home, and I think she is right.

Posted by: Anubis

Martin, action is always louder than words. You must show her that you have made a dicision to end the relationship. Most women respond to action, not empty promises. I was in a similar stitution with my ex-wife and I took action to end the relationship. After, my ex-wife seen that I had enough of the childish head games, she begged me to not end the relationship. I divorced her and never look back! You have to stand up and be a man, women will have more respect for you! Its obvious that she has other plans for HER future, which does not include you.

I know it is hard to give up a beautiful young woman, but, you will lose her in the end anyways. Don't wait until she has a new man to help her stay in your country. It will be easier for you, if you cut your losses and move on. You will find another that will not treat you badly and will appreciate you.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Martin,

You have a bad situation, and the advice we can give is only as good as the information you give us. It sounds as if you and this much younger girl entered your relationship with a lot of enthusiasm, but maybe too little of everything else. It sounds as if she believed that everything would work out and was in love with the idea that she would love you, and was enthusiastic, and made a reasonable effort, but also showed some clear signs that emotionally she was confused. Now the enthusiasm seems to be fading, and what is left is the too little of everything else you had going into this relationship.

Most people here suggest walking away, and at a minimum documenting your problems with a lawyer - their advice is practical and may be the best solution.

If you want to try to salvage this relationship, people here have indicated to you that some drastic changes need to be made. I would like to add to their advice:

First, you need to get your relationship as grounded in reality as possible. Your lady earns nothing, spends a lot (including indirect requests of things you buy), takes a lot of your time, and has too much free time herself. GET HER WORKING IMMEDIATELY. Even if it's a very menial job like working as a waitress or sales clerk, get her working. In fact, it might be better the more menial the job is. It doesn't sound to me like you are a Daddy Warbucks-type who can support an artist/singer type in a glamorous lifestyle, so as quickly as possible, you need to help your wife to step out of that role. Hard work builds character, stability, and an appreciation of the value of money.

In conjunction, you need to limit her available funds you are willing to provide to no more than a couple of hundred pounds a month. Once she is working, she should be able to pay all her own expenses so you can give her nothing, and should even insist that she contribute to some of the general expenses like utilities, etc.

You should limit large expenditures on things like furtniture/exercise machines/vacations to once or twice a year, including Christmas. If she wants something, just explain that if you buy this thing that you won't be able to make any other large expenditures she might want for the next six months, and for her to take a few days to think about if this is truly what she wants, or if she might prefer something else.

Next, you need to set some guidelines to limit your arguments. Once you see a disagreement developing, simply say that you will agree to listen to her for the next 20 minutes, and during that time you will do a lot of listening and then take no more than 5 minutes to respond, and then give her a final 5 minutes to respond to your response. If the issue isn't settled at that point, then tell her she can bring it up again the next day, but a half hour is your limit for arguing during one day.

Unfortunately, your relationship may have deteriorated to a point now where none of this will work and at a minimum you should have contacted a lawyer by now.

Posted by: Pin Boy

martin,

my deepest concerns and hopes for a not too painful ending...but i concur with most of the posters that this girl is not long term...i have to add that i think, in my opinion, is that the age difference is too great...maybe you want a child with this woman, but she is certainly not showing the maturity to be a mother and be part of the head of a family...sounds like you have to bite the bullet and as others said, either get tough and see if she straightens out or pack her bags and kick her to the curb....also the violence is an alarming concern...if she hits you would she also think it's okay to hit your children?....

good luck and know others wish you well

pin boy

ps...next time she takes a swing, go under and get inside and pop her with a short uppercut to the jaw!!!

I"M KIDDING EVERYONE!

Posted by: martin3030

Thank you all for these replies there are some real constructive things there and I value each and every one.
The reson I came here was to get some opinions from people who are pretty well qualified to give them.
Yesterday I waited for my wife to get up and I observed her stony silence.
I had spent all night dwelling over things.
As most people know our judgements and thoughts are clouded when we are not able to think straight.
I decided to sit down with her and have everything out.
She explained to me she had met another Russian girl at college and that they had gone shopping and after gone to her house.
I said I would have had no problems ith this if she had let me know what is going on.
I told her that I was not putting up with violence and that the very reason I had travelled so far was because I thought maybe she was different to my previous violent partners.
She claims that she did this because her parents had called her and were upset by her actions.
I explained that Marriage needed 2 people to make it work that it was about giving as well as taking and that I knew no marriage was perfect everyone goes through difficult stages.......its how we deal with the problems that is meaningful.
I invited her to give me her fears hopes and wishes.
I have never been a person who gives up easily and will usually pursue something until I have given it 100%.
I value the whole marriage institution and know it needs to be nutured.
I am aware that she could eventually leave on her own accord but I believe that comes down to trust and that has to be there If I had to think about this all the time then it would be worthless.
We have drawn up a plan and set aside some guidelines which we will both be abiding by one of these is the work scenario and there are some positives in the pipeline.
Though things have been uneasy I still believe that theres everything to salvage.............a 6 month marriage is not one to give up on although in these days many do.
I would like to keep you all posted in the future and if there are members on here near my location........maybe from Manchester I would love to hear from you.
We have found 3 other Russian women in my town.....but in each case the husband hardly lets them out because he is concerned they will end up the same as the English women he has had in the past.
I do not agree with it but thats how it is !!!!
Theres something about Russian women that makes them unique
everyone on here knows perfectly well what I mean...........I am very happy to have one myself.
Despite some probs I am eager yo fix

Posted by: Jill

Well, I wish you luck, Martin. I do hope things work out for you.

Posted by: sidney

This confirms the importance of communnication. I wish you the best as you both grow together.
Sid

Posted by: mria

Quote:

Originally posted by martin3030

She claims that she did this because her parents had called her and were upset by her actions.
[/B]

THats my point. She gets a phone call from her parents, then you get hit in the mouth. Can you see the connection? Forget thinking you've got this special relationship with her family. If they are so eager to take your side (right or wrong), they are using you as a way to get at her. Best thing is for you to never contact her parents again, and for her to deal with the reasons they make her so angry.

Posted by: martin3030

By the way............I have posted our wedding picture in thr gallery here !!!

Posted by: lester

Well done Martin!
Hopefully. you will now be able to try and rebuild your business and life back to normal and put this sorry state of affairs in the past.

You say that 3 couples are known to you. Are you able to meet with these and discuss your collective thoughts and experiences of international relationships?

Maybe worth trying this and also making contact with the forums Manchester area members.

Good Luck and remember, we are all ready and willing to help.
lester.

Posted by: Jill

If I'm not mistaken, Rattlesnake is from Manchester.....

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Hi Martin !!!

I have read your post and I first want to say that it is very sad that your marriage is not a happy one .

I think that the situation is complex . On the one hand the woman you married is the same woman whom you met in Russia -
I think that her behavour however is abusive on several levels and could be expensive not least at an emotional level.

My reaction when I read that she has an answer for everything is that she is probably manipulating you.
Secondly when I read that she had hit you following a telephone call to her parents , I feel that if the foot was on the other foot ie you had hot her , I am sure that the police would have been involved - I think that the fact that she has physically assualted you is a sign that she will probably do this again because she has calculated ( knows even ) that you love her and that you will stay quite about this . My worry is that if the assualts continue , your abillity to think straight will deteriorate - my advice is if you get hit again - speak to the police and make a report.

I also read that she is unwilling to go out with you on your own - this is a big red flag - a woman who is in love with her man wants to be seen with him and certainly doesnt advise him to go out with his mates.

If you want to talk privately you can PM me - I also live in Manchester !!!!! We both share a love of rain and bad traffic !!!

Rattle

Posted by: RUSS439

Hi to all, (this is my first post).

My Girlfriend (seated right next to me) is from Estonia. We have been together for almost two years and have visited each other on a regular basis for the last 18 months (approximately every 6 weeks). Anyway enough of the brief introduction and down to the "nitty gritty".

Martin this girl is what we used to call on Russian Blacklist.com "TRADE UP". She has used you to get out of the FSU, she has her foot in the door and is now seeking pastures new.

Sorry to be so abrupt but this is the way it is and I do feel that the generation gap may have a significant impact here too. My personal opinion is never look for anyone more than 10 years younger than yourself and be realistic in your expectations.

In closing my first post I am registered in The Netherlands but I am from the same neck of the woods as Rattlesnake and Martin (Chester).

Cheers to all, Russ

Posted by: martin3030

Thanks for that.
As an English guy like myself you will know how we are brought up here.We are taught to have expectations by the experiences we already have had.
Some of us learn by mistakes........others take longer.
I am a Dj and for 25 years have saw couples that were older shorter fatter thinner intelligent docile ................................
Before I met my wife I spent hours days and weeks on Russian related sites I wanted to be sure I knew the inns and outs.
The best teachers in the world are the ones who have gone before you and done it all.
Oneof the things I noticed was this guide that says you should not be involved in any woman who is more than 15 years younger.
What if it was 16 ...........if it was 14 then is that bordering on the line too ??
If there is lots in common then age is no barrier in my eyes.
I still have all my own hair
still have all my own teeth
dont have any irregular movements
and can do everything a 21 year old can ...........and more !!!
If you read all my posts I think maybe you will see that part of the problem is that I have actualluy educated my wife to a point where she is now able to know my next move.
Because of this I am unable to know what to do which is why I decided to come on here and get some opinions.
At the end of the day theres no magic formula......no set rules...and no generalisation.
I am going to find out if she is a scammer I may find out the hard way but I will learn lessons from it if its the case We are 3 months into marriage its not easy and its true to say we all change a little after marriage theres new challenges and new objectives......plus the old British resolve that says you can never give up.
I will give it my best shot I will try and try.
If it fails then I will know I did my best.
With people on this site I will not feel that bad in the knowledge
that I can share the experience and hopefully draw positives.
At the end of the day we make our own choices decisions and ultimately our own destiny too.
Whichever way it goes its comforting to know theres people to share ut here with.

Thanks to all

Martin

Posted by: rtking

Martin,

Your a brave and honorable man for wanting to continue to try. It's my opinion (from your posts) that you honor your commitments... in this case, your promise in marriage. But some things just shouldn't be tolerated in my opinion. Physical violence is never acceptable and, at least in my view, is something that a person can never do if there is even a shred of love and respect for the person.

At the very least, I think that seeking counseling may be in order. Your wife may not be willing to participate, but it's amazing what an impartial third-party can do to view and assess the situation. The news may be good... or it can be very painful... but at least you'll know it's a professional, objective opinion.

I wish you the best of luck.

Bob

Posted by: RUSS439

Hi Martin,

Just wanted to clarify my point, not wishing to generalize as each case is on an individual basis.

Your story so incensed me I just had to write something, I may be totally wrong here but I am of the opinion you have been dreadfully used.

The age gap thing is a piece of advice you would find on many sites, no offence meant, it's a sort of "Rule of thumb thing".

In one of the posted replies you have been advised to seek legal counsel, this is sound advice, do it sooner rather than later to protect yourself, even though this situation may resolve itself in time.

Just a few quick thoughts of mine

Cheers Russ

Posted by: wavetossed

By the way, large age gaps seem to be more common in the UK than in America. The daytime TV shows that talk about relationship issues don't have a problem finding a steady stream of middle-aged men who have 16 year old girlfriends, and middle-aged women with toyboys. And then there's Billie Piper and Chris Evans, Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones, etc.

Posted by: martin3030

Ahhh yes .........The celeb marriages have more pressures because they are in the limelight.
Proves that age can me an indicator..........but also that even with millions in the bank their marriages can still falter.

I have seen jerry springer and Trish Kilroy and Ophra etc basically it is sensationalism and I dont believe is representitive of what is happening widescale but yes ...............16 years olds do grow into older people and change.

If I am sounding defensive its not what I am meaning to portray!

Posted by: mria

Hi Martin,

Well, I don't think age gaps are ever the cause of the problem. I've said this before but the most successful marriages in my family are where the age gap is 10+ years.

Oh, heres the thought of the day for you.
Guess where I live?
Ha ha, I live in "Llay" in North Wales at the moment. I'm living next door to that couple who were in the papers because of the age gap. She's 17, and he's 64. She's a well-known local girl and she's quite beautiful in the flesh. Seems to be working between them now that the local people have accepted it.

Posted by: martin3030

Ha Ha................Ive not seen the story!!

The age gap here is certainly questionable.
Other peoples opinions and how we are viewed by people we know are things my wife always says are unimportant.
I think that it can be a problem because we cannot shut ourselves off from friends.
If we didnt value opinions from others then we wouldnt know where we are going wrong.
I know many English girls who have partners much older they tell me that the security afforded by an older partner is always a consideration.......without sounding too critical young men today are very different to their fathers !!!!

Posted by: wavetossed

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...-name_page.html

Interesting that it happened in the North. It seems to be more common for such large age gap marriages to happen in Northern England than in the south near London.

Posted by: martin3030

Could it be something to do with Boddingtons bitter....Fish and chips....Rugby league and Coronation Street ??

Posted by: mria

Quote:

Originally posted by wavetossed
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...-name_page.html

Interesting that it happened in the North. It seems to be more common for such large age gap marriages to happen in Northern England than in the south near London.

Northen England?! Stop taking the piss. Wales is a country in its own right- so its Pobl y Cwm here- not Corrie.

Its true though that nobody's really taking any notice of it here in Llay.

But look- her mum's 34 and her dad's 32, so they must have been 17 and 16 when they had Stacey. She absolutely must be looking for some maturity in her life.

Posted by: martin3030

Its good that they had her young.........maybe it was tough for them early on and they must have made a few sacrifices but its allowed them to enjoy the things together that both can identify with.
I was mortified at the idea of meeting my wifes relatives mainly because I believed they would think I was too old for her.
In contrast they were all great with it.
Sometimes we can spend so much time worrying about the negatives that we overshadow the positives........but its something we are brought up to do.........a part of English thinking perhaps we dont like to venture into things that we have no experience of because maybe are afraid to know how to deal with.
If you switch off to what you have always known then there is a danger of becoming isolated yet if you try and carry on as normal whilst in a n English Russian relation then its being unfair as there has to be compromise.
Striking this balance can be hard....in fact at times a bit of a juggling act !!!!

Posted by: martin3030

Hi all just an update on how things are going.
I am pulling out all the stops to try and find my wife work here and am confident something will turn up.
I myself have more or less filled my diary for December with Discos including 4 nights a week in a local new restaurant I am looking at the possibility of marketing us both as a husband and wife team as I believe there will be opportunities there.
On my own business front,work from both retail supplies and repairs at established venues are coming thick and fast ....looks like everyone kept my number !!!
One thing that has started to trouble me however is my friends relation with my wifes aunty as I previously mentioned.
They have never met and he is calling continually at our house asking my wife to translate messages.
Apparantly when they speak on the phone neither can communicate as he speaks no Russian....and she speaks no English !!!
He has sent money over for visa to Cyprus and booked everything they are meeting there in 2 weeks.
Last weekend he brought an engagement ring into the bar and said it was for her.......they have not even met eachother !!!!
When I tell my wife about my fears here she dismisses it and says well......she has no real life there!!!!
Last night she told me her Godmother has been on a trip to France with a guy from London and he is applying for a marriage visa to bring her to London.
My wife now expects me to make arrangements to take her there
on visits (its 400 miles each way from our house )
Jokingly I said so ..........soon there will be 3 of you ????

I dont think I am a selfish person but I am beginning to feel that my marriage is being gatecrashed and that its not personal anymore.
I am not against my wife having friends or relations here but I just feel things are moving too fast for comfort.
Does anyone have an opinion here .....or maybe can see something I cant reading between the lines ??

Posted by: Juggler

I have only just read this thread........jeeeeze

First let me say that I do not think that the age gap is the problem here.....but more a problem of her immaturity. That shows itself with lights on......

....Because of her immaturity it will be difficult to resolve this situation, but like yourself, I would give it 100% before I gave in. ( not because I have the same values of marriage but because I am a stubborn b*****d and would want to show my initial judgement of her was correct )

The bottom line is "It aint going to work"........and that pains me to say it

My wife and I have a 19yr age gap but we work together as a team and although everything is not always perfect we discuss things, work for the same goal and eventually get there.

Do you and your wife have the same goals??

If not you will tear each other apart. Marriage is a partnership and it won't work any other way.

Posted by: martin3030

Thank you for that I take on board all you say and in fact have thought in much the same ways too.
When you are in the middle of something which is not looking quite right then you become blinkered and in turn it clouds your judgements.
The immaturity is something that I have tried hard to work on Trying to show her that growing up a little need not mean losing anything rather becoming a little more wiser tolerant and patient.
However its not something you really can teach overnight....as maturity comes with life experience and the whole process of changing attitudes and the ways which we view and deal with things.
Her goals are not really different to mine she wants a nice house job and money to buy things she needs pretty much the same as all of us.
Trouble is she wants it all happening now.......I keep telling her that things happen in stages and stepping stones are there to go along her demands from me are something I have found hard to handle but I do see her starting to understand when I sit down and explain things as they really are !!

Posted by: Pin Boy

good news for you martin...hope in time things work out for success and long lasting love

pin boy

Posted by: Juggler

don't know any more advice to give...........just that you should BOTH know what is happening and that you BOTH agree on the ways to resolve the situation.

Posted by: martin3030

So while i have been at work tonight she has been on here and printed all my postings off..........which she says she will show to my mum.
Theres nothing I have said that I retract I came here out of desperation and did so discretely or so I thought.
No one likes to be faced with the truth...........sometimes it hurts and needs to be said.
If there is a feeling of betrayel on her part its because she wasnt listening to me.
I have come home from a night that has not exactly been rosy a works party that threw everything at me for 5 hours I wanted to come home and just relax with the news before going to sleep.
Mow once again I dont think sleep will be coming my way.
Interestingly enough she didnt read the messages too good.....if she had she would have seen the overiding message throughout that she has always had my support and that there was nothing more I wanted than a contented marriage between us.
Of late there has been further developements which I have not even spoke of....................I was just living in hope that things would change.
If she cannot accept what I wrote here and the resons for it then maybe its better to divorce.
I never said I was perfect but I do know the difference between reality and optimism................one is very real the other is something you hope is real but you cannot have a say in.

Posted by: Jill

Wow....I am very sorry, Martin. I wish you luck and strength whatever you decide.

Posted by: lester

Martin,
So sorry to read this, maybe your Mum will
understand your reasons for postings better than
your wife. Talk with her if possible.

Is there anyone amongst the russian/ western
community near to you,( I believe you said maybe
3 couples were close by you), that would discuss
this with yourselves?

Have you tried Marriage Guidance Council Mediation?

I found them to be very helpful with my own divorce,
particularly with the amicable financial settlement reached.
They may know of mediators who speak russian.

Keep us informed please, and remember, we are here for you!

lester.

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Martin,

It's too bad you didn't "GET HER WORKING IMMEDIATELY" even if it was menial work like I advised you a month ago. Idle hands will find something to do, and usually that something equals problems for your relationship.

Flash

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

Flashingeyes, and others

You think sorta like me which I find sad.

That ou have to play a game in a way with keeping someone busy etc. So that thery don't end up doing something bad.

Why can't it be that we can beleive in people anymore ?

I mean i hear you I do but I will not allow myself to be in another relationship where I have this sort of fear.

"I have to do X,Y, and Z; becasue if i don't she will end up with another guy, or on drugs etc.

Where is personal responsibility and love ?

Its jsut as much her problem if she needs somethign to communicate it to Martin.

Not slowly pull away

'Nuff said

Posted by: FlashingEyes

A soulmate,

There's a big difference between what you are saying and what I am saying. Obviously, you've had problems in the past as you describe, but you are not like me. I haven't had those problems, because I don't think like you.

I do believe that a healthy relationship is one where both partners work together to help each other to maintain healthy lifestyles. That means that if one partner suddenly becomes very depressed, stops exercising, begins to overeat and becomes morbidly obese with, by definition, a severe health risk, that the other partner should intervene. This is action based on a legitimate fear not on the type of fears you have had in the past. It was patently obvious to me that martin's wife is leading an unhealthy lifestyle based on a number of things he described and it was clear to me that he should intervene and get her working immediately. The final proof of this argument is that he did not do what I suggested and instead did nothing, as you would suggest, relying on "Why can't it be that we can beleive in people anymore ?" logic, and the end result is his relationship suffered a terrible blow.

If your history of relationships is as bad as you describe, maybe you shouldn't be handing out advice - just a thought.

Posted by: martin3030

Hi guys .....I am interested to read what you are saying and I could not come here with my grievances just listen and then dissapear when things look good again.
I know there are people looking at this here who are interested to see how things develop .........how things change and how things ultimately resolve themselves for better or worse !!
My wife and I have thrown ourselves into the decoration at home that was badly needed.............its took more time than money and was needed.
She knows I am not in agreement to throwing away things just because they dont look right on the walls..............
Reaching a compromise is not difficult for me as I know sometimes it needs to be done and if no one gives an inch then you can never move closer !!
I am looking forward to Christmas in England and also New year in Russia on January 7th.(going on 5th )
To everyone here I wish you a great Christmas...........I always think there are lots of people more less fortunate this is a time when I thnk my problems are a mere spectacle compared with what I see on the news........newspapers and in circles.
It is ironic that David Blunkett now finds himself without a job after the alledged fast tracking of visas.........
A subject lots of here would have experience on........yet his speech on his motivations and comments about fatherhood would be a great endorsment for fathers for justice .........a thorn in the side for the government this year.........but no less a cause that is as good as any other.
A little diversion from my post..................yet a reflection that shows one never knows whats around the corner.......
To my wife who I know will read this..........I love you very much and am committed to trying hard to be the husband you wanted.
A problem shared is a problem half dealt with..............Theres some great people on here.older and wiser than me I will only start to relly worry when I start to enjoy listening to Des O Connors greatest hits !!!!!

Take care all be safe be warm and be happy.

Martin

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

y

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by martin3030
Hi guys .....I am interested to read what you are saying and I could not come here with my grievances just listen and then dissapear when things look good again.
I know there are people looking at this here who are interested to see how things develop .........how things change and how things ultimately resolve themselves for better or worse !!
My wife and I have thrown ourselves into the decoration at home that was badly needed.............its took more time than money and was needed.
She knows I am not in agreement to throwing away things just because they dont look right on the walls..............
Reaching a compromise is not difficult for me as I know sometimes it needs to be done and if no one gives an inch then you can never move closer !!
I am looking forward to Christmas in England and also New year in Russia on January 7th.(going on 5th )
To everyone here I wish you a great Christmas...........I always think there are lots of people more less fortunate this is a time when I thnk my problems are a mere spectacle compared with what I see on the news........newspapers and in circles.
It is ironic that David Blunkett now finds himself without a job after the alledged fast tracking of visas.........
A subject lots of here would have experience on........yet his speech on his motivations and comments about fatherhood would be a great endorsment for fathers for justice .........a thorn in the side for the government this year.........but no less a cause that is as good as any other.
A little diversion from my post..................yet a reflection that shows one never knows whats around the corner.......
To my wife who I know will read this..........I love you very much and am committed to trying hard to be the husband you wanted.
A problem shared is a problem half dealt with..............Theres some great people on here.older and wiser than me I will only start to relly worry when I start to enjoy listening to Des O Connors greatest hits !!!!!

Take care all be safe be warm and be happy.

Martin

Martin,

The both of you need to get some marriage counciling. That will only work if BOTH of you recognize that there is a problem in the marriage and you BOTH want to fix the relationship.

Frankly, you dont seem to be really interested in really doing what it will take to make the marriage work. She is running the show and that is not a good thing when destructive behavior is being exhibited in the relationship.

To be blunt about it, your marriage will not survive unless you seek out and get professional help. Both of you must be committed and willing to change how you are interacting with each other.

good luck, you'll need it

Posted by: martin3030

Thank you for your comments.
On the contrary I do feel we are now both working hard with our marriage and although results cannot come over night they do at least start to show once things are addressed.
To an extent I would agree that Marriage guidance counselling helps some people........especially in identifying areas that are causing the problems and suggesting a way forward,but lets be honest and realistic here...........in the end the two parties must do the work needed.
Dialogue and patience motivation understanding and a will to achieve are all important.

I take onboard the constructive......and sometimes critical comments here.

Thank you.

Martin

Posted by: emeline

I have been browsing through the site my Goodness what I have just read!! It is a bit old issue but I could not help but write about it. I am talking about this 'hard-breaking' story of a guy called Martin... and the comments of the members. I would definitely agree with one of the comments saying that the story of the both parties involved should be listened to. In my life I have happened to hear a story of this poor guy, who in the end had appeared to be the most manipulating party in his relationship. I have this strange feeling that Martin is this type of a guy.

It looks to me that the problem is not in this poor girl that most probably was charmed by all his prior attention and courting, but in the guy himself. First of all he is the one who should be most experienced as he is 24 (!) years older than her. And now who is writing all this poor-me story with most intimate details. I would be ashamed and probably not forgive my husband if he shared our intimate life with strangers on the Net. This is not healthy! And it also makes me thinking if all these details were true or just the fruits of his pure imagination. Guys usually do not share much their troubles even with their family or relatives, so this sounds conspicuous that Martin so openly writes about suspenders his wife is wearing!!! It is sick!

I would like to hear this girl's story. Just image, she came over to a foreign country, all by herself... no friends, no family, just a future husband who she believes she knows (how many couples after 20-year marriage still do not know each other!)... it is already a shock. All this foreign language round her that can sometimes get on her nerves big time; it can get her sick hearing it all the time. There is nothing wrong with it� All foreigners experience this to some or the other extend. The girl is under a huge pressure for starters.

With this entire story about how-good-I-am, some things do not add up� what is so wrong if a girl wants to have a pet?? It is a natural reaction to a stress�

What about this dressing code control!! I wonder what response of a British girl would be to his comments?? Quite crude with some gestures I believe.

Sudden business problems in 2 months� Hey, this sounds ridiculous for a guy of 46 with an experience of a successful business.. Was the business really so successful or it is just easier to blame it on the girl??

One more moment that made me thinking� Martin asks his friends to help him with his house� mmmm�.. a guy of 46 is not able to keep his house in order???!!! In what state this house was if he could not do it himself???!!!

Problems in bed??? It is an issue that should be discussed with a personal doctor and not on the Net! However there is a clear sign that a poor girl clearly seems unhappy�

What a guy would call his wife�s family to complain!! It sounds ridiculous! Kind of kinder-garden behaviour�

The girl slaps Martin� For a Russian girl to slap a guy� she should have been absolutely and utterly mad at him for something really unforgivable...

Going out without an engagement ring.. � Big deal!

Martin has problems with trust issues� One can read behind the lines, he does not trust his wife.. and thus the girl rebels�

The girl wishes to find a job.. what is so bad in that??? Good for him!! More money into the family..

She has helped her aunty with meeting a friend??? She really sounds as nice girl� It is quite Christian in helping your neighbour, isn�t it?

Well, I could have spent hours making comments� All this story is a cry for sympathy from the guy who I think does not really deserve it. I cannot believe that some of the members took his inconsistent story at face value. There is definitely another story behind it, the events could be more or less accurate but we all what a good spin could do... I simply do not buy Martin's story...

Posted by: martin3030

I see this is your first post,and by virtue of your comments have not really read many others on this site.

I need to remind you that this site is all about Russians and non Russian people.

Your comments are highly critical to me specifically and there is much more to your comments than it would at first appear.

There are reasons why I chose to air my thoughts and views here first and foremost because there are people here who understand the issues.

The advice given varied but overall was able to assist.

Whatever your thoughts on the post are really are not a concern for me as we are now in a happy relationship and have moved forward.

Perhaps you will in future choose to restrict your sad comments to subjects you know more about.

The negative ones you choose to make in your first post are of no benefit to me or anyone else but I suppose go to show what contributions people can expect from you in the future.

If you are such an expert on human relations I hink you are on the wrong site.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Martin,
I understand that the words written by emeline cut deeply at times, but to be honest, I refrained from posting on this topic because my reply would have been very similar had I posted my thoughts. Quite frankly, you opened yourself up to any and all criticizm by using the title that starts with the words: help wanted and ending your post with:

Quote:

Originally posted by martin3030
Any thoughts please

So if you wanted only agreeable thoughts you should have specified.

Comments made about difficulties with your business can easily be interpreted as coming from a person who *might* have little or no understanding of western free market economies (and how quickly things can happen) - or, they might be seen as a personal insult to your intelligence and/or ability. I saw it as the former, and it would appear you saw it as the latter. (That said, I'm fairly certain there was a period of "downhill slide" before the two months of inevitability.....but we're not really here to talk about that, so I'll drop it right there)

Quote:

Originally posted by martin3030
Perhaps you will in future choose to restrict your sad comments to subjects you know more about.

The negative ones you choose to make in your first post are of no benefit to me or anyone else but I suppose go to show what contributions people can expect from you in the future.

Judging from what emeline wrote with regard to etiquette when discussing marital problems - more specificly with a russian spouse, she appears to know this subject exceedingly well.

Judging from what emeline wrote with regard to the stress of a person relocating to another country including performance (or lack of) in the bedroom, she appears to know this subject exceedingly well.

Judging from what emeline wrote with regard to putting a sympathetic spin on a one-sided story, she appears to know this subject exceedingly well.

Judging from what emeline wrote with regard to your business practices, well...........not so much. However, I'd say she was on target and on topic with a solid 95% of her post, and I look forward to hearing more from her in the future.

Posted by: martin3030

All I can say to that is I am glad that there were some constructive replies which actually HELPED .
I should really have made clear from the beginning that I was looking for replies from people over here in the UK who understand more readily what I was saying.
Our way of life here is completely different to that of the USA that goes from the way we do things and the way we handle things.
What prompted Emile to want to make comments on the thread (which was last added to 5 months ago) I cannot really say.

You will notice that I came back and said things were getting much better.
The reason for this is because we both worked hard and continue to do so to get through.

If people think that I opened up to much then thats up to them to decide,But i have read other stories on this site which,while not being the same have nevertheless sought to find answers.

I shall remember in future though and once again thank the people who replied.

Emile thinks they got it wrong to offer advice and support.

On a site presumably designed for everyone to express their views and thoughts there will always be a cross section of replies.

I was happy with the ones I recieved.

Posted by: emeline

Martin,

I have gathered very well that �this is about Russians and non-Russians�.
As for my comments, your story was there and (consider by the power of Providence) I read it and could not help but comment. You rightly suggest that everybody is free to say what they feel and I exercised my right.
I did dear to criticise you and give your wife benefit of a doubt. Even serial killers have advocates.
What upset me the most was that the people who replied had not questioned your story, they mostly gave you advice on �how to deal with the girl�.
What made me writing that sharp was that during your brooding (I think it is a better word for it rather then a story) about your unhappy life with your wife, you did not mention a good word about her. It was all about you and what you, poor thing, did for her and how she was ungeateful� That sounded already strange. I have been in a lousy relationship once and although most of my family, his family and our common friends said that he was the bad guy in our story, I still admit that there were two of us to blame, there was something I might have done wrong as well, probably I should not have committed to this relationship at all in the first place.

I am pleased that Jim from the USA quite got my point. Only one thing to comment � I am fairly aware about free market economy and ups and downs of business in general. What I did not buy in Martin�s story is what this poor girl had to do with it? He ran the company and it was he who let it go down. Companies do not go bust suddenly. If somebody runs a successful business (repeat a successful one), he can see problems creeping months and months ahead. Martin�s story went nearly �the girls came over, the company gone bust�� Sorry, I do not buy it�
As for the rest of the comments, yes, I know more than enough about Russians living abroad and how it feels and all the problems connected with it. And I know how sometimes it is easy for a man to overwhelm his wife who is foreign (and even when she is of the same nationality)... If this girl were the age of Martin, I would not have probably bothered writing.

Back to Martin, negative comments can also be quite constructive and looking from your last answer, you have made some conclusions.
Glad to hear your life is getting better for both of you, however, if you let your wife write a few lines, I would be more convinced. Only why I have such a strange feeling that we shall not hear from her...

Posted by: martin3030

You are so clever.
If you read my entire posts you will have seen that I did have good things to say about my wife,in fact I made it clear that I wanted to see things better and that I knew I too had a share in the problems.

I never once blamed my wife for my business problems.
Neither did I come to the site to have things one sided.

For your information (which you seem so clear about) several people sent me private e mails and not all the comments therefore are here on the thread.

You are assuming that no one questioned anything because you can only comment on what you see here.

Your experiences of a bad relation in the past should not be cpmpared to mine.

Many of the things I had to enlighten on in greater depth came after people asked.

Are you saying that I should not entrust that to people on here ?
I did not exactly go down the pub and broadcast it.

As regards my wife ..............yes she did read all the posts.

I cannot see how your views nor comments here would go anyway towards accelerating progress for us both.
In contrast your views are at best in our situ kept to yourself.

Posted by: emeline

Martin, you are on defensive! Does it mean I have touched a sore nerve?? That says it all!
I am not assuming anything and I am not going into further argument, I have read what is there for everyone�s attention.
Well, your wife might have read all the posts� I just wonder how did she take it all?
Would she be able to make her own comment in her defence? It would be only fair on this girl whose dirty garment have been washed by her other half in public...

Posted by: wavetossed

Emmeline,

Please stop this. You are analyzing Martin and his girlfriend as if they were stereotypes. Real people are NOT stereotypes. The world is not like you read in romance novels. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Let Martin and his girlfriend work out their own relationship in their own way.

Posted by: martin3030

Yes of course I am on the defensive.
I am defending my right here to have the facts made clear.

I am certainly not going to lose any sleep over your remarks so you hit no nerves with me.

Your determination to make holes in my posts may well be satisfying to you but unfortunately you will not be given the opportunity to have my wife come here and agree with you.

I think most people here would agree .........it would serve no purpose other than to de-stabilise our relations in the light of your assumptions.
I have shown her your last post and she has said that whilst there are some points she Does agree with you on,the general picture is one of a woman seemingly bitter.

Interesting how many people have replied saying they agree with you ?

I have no more to say on this...............and you can rest assured that with replies like yours I would certainly keep things to myself next time.

Posted by: emeline

Your wife did agree with me at least on some points, so I rest my case... this will be a warning sign for the members in future not to stereoptype a person based on an indirect story...

Posted by: martin3030

Rest what case?

Since you dont know what my wife DID agree on then its a little premature.

Stereotyping was the right word.

Incidentally Business being driven by market forces does not always mean success and warnings dont always precede problems.

There was good reasons which you are not aware of that could never have been forecast

Just like things have a habit of turning up out of the blue when they are least expected.

I dont doubt you will have an answer though ...............rather like you have for everything else.

Posted by: emeline

sorry, Martin, you have lost your argument. I am happy that your wife read what I have written (if she really did so). Let her know that some members do support her...

Posted by: martin3030

I did not come here for an ARGUEMENT so I do not see it that way.

If you are suggesting that my wife did not see any of this,then presumably she could not agree with what you wrote.

Which effectively would mean that I was making it up just to pacify your own beliefs ?

If you want to go online for arguements theres lots of places where you can do that.

Posted by: Juggler

Emeline

I see your protective side of both homeland and women ........but where are you going with this train of thought???? it is not constructive and to me it seems that you are trying to score points for whatever hangups or bad experiences that you may have had.
I know that there are always 2 sides to a story........but don't fill in the blanks with your own thoughts.
I commend the fact that you are trying to defend those that are not talking on this thread, but PLEASE remember that YOU are just an observer the same as I am.

Posted by: martin3030

I really hope this is the end of it now.

Time and time again I have pointed out that me and my wife are ok now.
Granted things are not perfect but we are trying (no one is perfect)

I respect constructive dialogue and I am aware that sometimes advice and opinions can be that which one does not want to hear.

Its just that there has been a little too much of it (albeit when the situation really does not call for it)

However for my part I am willing to call a compromise with Emiline
and am hopeful that she can make a good contribution to future threads here.

I am just like anyone else coming on to this site.
This thread is no longer ongoing as far as I am concerned,and since last year I have made other posts on here which in contrast
are all about making a worthwhile contribution.

I hope you too Emiline can move on from this and perhaps do the same.

No hard feelings.............lifes too short.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Martin,

I am glad to hear that things are going well for you...

I did not go back to see what the problem was, but it is not worth my time

Here is to you and your wife and may things go well for you both

Texas

Posted by: martin3030

Encouraging words

Thank you Texas.