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How would the Russian/Ukrainian/Moldavian women react?
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Posted by: Shy

Hello all,

I have been visiting various dating sites on the Internet for some time now. Not just Russian/Ukrainian, but also South American. All the sites contain thousands of beautiful and lovely ladies, eager to marry a Western man. And I'm indeed tempted to start up with a dating agency to find me a wife. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Russian/Ukranian/Moldovian woman, but I would like her to have some higher education, and that is not so common in South America. But I'm also quite cautious about finding a woman and marrying her.

The point is, I haven't got that much experience with women (as in at all!). I guess I was and am just to shy and timid to walk up to a girl and ask her out. I've tried in the past, but was always turned down, varying from a polite 'no' to a look like 'how do you even dare to speak to me'. The point is, I'm at a point in my life where I have to decide whether I want to stay alone forever, or want to find a wife, a lover and a partner. And frankly, being alone for the coming 30-40 years doesn't attract me that much. And via the Internet you can get acquainted without the girl or woman seeing you stutter or get all red. But I've read that most Russian/Ukrainian/Moldavian women are quite strong and independent. And I'm very wary about that compared to my experience (or lack of it). I've seen it with an acquaintance of mine. He was also, well, like me. When he was in his late 30'ties, like I'm at the moment, he got acquainted with a Dutch woman of about 6-7 years younger. And although she is not a bad wife, he never stood a chance. She had so much experience in relations compared to him, that she knew exactly how to play it. And that is something I would like to avoid.

I want to add that there is nothing wrong with me. Not mentally, not physically (I'm about 1,95 and about 90 kg), I've got a decent job and if I have to speak to a unknown audience about something I know, like my hobby, I've got no problems in either Dutch or English. But I'm just too shy for women. And the question is, how would the women from Russia/Ukrainia/Moldavia react to that? Cause I think that they are hardly used to, well, someone like me. Any reaction from the females on this forum?

Shy

Posted by: Jim_FL

IMHO If you have trouble with women, you're gonna have trouble with Russian women! The best decription I ever heard (that fit the russian women I've encountered along the way as well as my wife) was "An iron fist in a velvet glove".

That said, I'd like to be so bold as to ask a personal question:
How are you in a situation where someone else starts the conversation? If a woman came up to you and started talking, would you jump right in, or still be a bit timid?

Posted by: Jerico

I agree with Jim all the way.
If you have problems meeting woman where you live you will have the same problems in Russia or anywhere else.
Through personal experiences , I have found the Russian woman I have dated , wanted me to be in control of the situations.
Not saying bossy towards them but in control in making decisions.
Like going to a club or deciding on dinner and when ,etc.
Not telling them what to do

That would not go over to well I think.
Jerry

Posted by: Jill

Happy Birthday, Jerico!

Posted by: Jerico

Thank you Jill for the birthday wishes !!!
I appreciate that

Geez I am getting old fast

LOL Jerry

Posted by: FlashingEyes

The first thing I notice when I read your post is that you spend a lot of time telling me who you are not, but where is it that you tell me WHO YOU ARE? What are you passionate about? What are your strong beliefs? What are some things that you love? The first step you need to take is to stop defining yourself by who you are not and instead define yourself by who you are - for instance:

"Hi, I'm a man in his late 30's, in reasonably good shape. I believe exercise is important and I exercise 2-3 times a week. Also I play soccer on the weekend with a group of friends - I really enjoy the competitiveness and the good exercise and I'm a decent player. I have a good job that I enjoy and I get to solve problems at work, which is also something I enjoy. Many of my hobbies involve solving problems; for instance, I play problem-solving games like chess and computer strategy games. I don't read much lately but I enjoy classic literature - most of the new novels are just not the same quality as a good classic. I like to watch movies, and there are two very different types of movies that I like - one is action movies, and the other is a movie with a really good story line, like a good novel. In the mornings, I love croissants, and all kinds of croissant sandwiches, like with eggs and bacon. etc etc etc"

My advice is to write something like this and from this day forward to begin to define yourself by such a method - who you are NOT who you are not. It is ok after a long description of who you are to add a short sentence like "I am shy and have little experience with women" but that says it all and there's no reason to spend any more time dwelling on who you are NOT.

So once you have an attitude shift, your next step should be to go get that experience. How do you do that? Well, let's try some steps instead of just jumping straight to marriage. Make friends, with both men and women. Make acquaintances. Get out every evening after work and do something! Join all sorts of organizations that you might have any kind of interest in. Volunteer - you will help others and at the same time you will meet all sorts of good and interesting people. Join a toastmasters group to improve your speaking. Learn to dance. Join a book club - whatever! Become so involved that you are out at some meeting or another literally every single night. Soon you will be too busy and have too many people you know to be shy.

Final thought - stop looking for your solutions in someone else. You have some things about yourself that you obviously realize are deficient. FIRST, fix those. Then, when you are improved as a person, think about meeting someone to marry. Russian women like all women want a man who is self-sufficient.

Posted by: rtking

Shy:

I agree with the others. You'll have to do a bit of introspection (look within yourself) and find your inner strength. Trust me... I was shy also, but most people now will tell you (when they meet me) that I'm very outgoing and personable.

The first thing to remember is that women are people too. There's nothing amazingly mysterious about them. They put on their pants one-leg at a time, they brush their teeth and use the bathroom just like all people do. There is nothing to fear in speaking with women. It should come as naturally as speaking to any man. I can understand if you're a bit shy of all people in an unknown setting... it's natural. But don't put women "on a pedestal" and fear them. If you relax and be yourself, you'll find that you can have amazingly intellectual and fulfilling conversations with women and men alike.

As for rejection: It's something we live with and overcome. Women face rejection too. But remember this: It's not personal Any woman who doesn't know you can't possibly decline you on a personal basis, can she? She's reacting to whatever she notices about you in the first 10 seconds to 1 minute. That said, I'd recommend improving your confidence in yourself. That will carry over in your conversation with women and I think you'll meet with greater success.

Lastly, FSU Women: I think you'll find that women from the Former Soviet Union are (stereotypically) strong willed and strong-minded. They have had to face adversity and obstacles and tackle it with aplomb. But I think all women (and men) admire confidence and stability.

I don't mean to sound harsh, Shy. But truth to told (from one former "Shy Guy" to another), it's best to work on yourself and improve your self confidence first. You mentioned that you are comfortable speaking about your hobby. I would challenge you and say that it's not your hobby you're comfortable about, but your knowledge about that subject that gives you confidence. If you have that same knowledge and belief about yourself (or any subject), you can speak confidently about it.

An example: If your friends tell you that you're a great, kind and caring guy, do you accept that and say "Thank You", or do you try to be modest and say, "No... that's not true..." Ask yourself that question now. You should be able to say "Thank You" with confidence that you are, indeed, a nice guy. It's OK to be modest, but don't sell yourself short at the expense of being overly modest.

I hope that helps. Sorry for the long-winded lecture!

Bob

Posted by: rtking

Off Topic

Jerico: Happy Birthday!!!!

Bob

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Shy, I think that you know the problem but - you need workable solutions . Ok , if you feel shy , one way to instantly make you feel more confident is to... walk tall - just by walking with your back straight , your head up and your shoulders back this will have an effect on the way you feel about yourself - so for starters always walk tall and do not walk with your head down . Practice walking as if you an actor ( i know this sounds corney but it works and it doesnt cost a anything to do this )- I guarantee iof you walk AS IF you are confident you will FEEL confident.
If you are shy , looking at people's faces will be a problem so heres how to look confident and it can be practiced - when walking into a building or down the street try to look just above the eye line , eyebrows or heads of people - people will assume you are looking at them but you will be gradually getting more comfortable looking at people face to face and eventually you will become more comfortabe with eye contact. Remember , eye contact can tell a person alot about someone so you need to practice good confident eye contact and this will send a message to the woman who you eventually marry that you are a confidnent guy. Remember , the eyes ARE the mirror of the soul so you must practice looking at people and get used to the anxiety this may cause to you - eventually you will not feel anxious and people will think you are not shy !!!!
Smile ..- yes this is the simplest technique but a smile will always break the ice plus good eye contact.

What do you find interesting ? what really facinates you ?Is it art or music ? Is it your collection of jazz c'ds ? Is it comedy clubs? Is it sport ? Is it flying kites ? ( Mines is flying kites !!!! ) - what ever your hobby - get into it and join other people who enjoy the same things .

Log onto sosuave.com on the internet - it gives advice on confidence building techniques and some of the advice is good .( some of it crazy , but see how others have overcome thier shyness).

DO NOT GIVE UP - it is fatal to give up and to think that shyness is my lot - look at nature and how nature revolves around the sun and the seasons - there is a season for you shy .

I hope you soon overcome your shynes and live your life to the full.

rattle

Posted by: wavetossed

I reckon that the Internet is an ideal way for a shy person to meet a future partner. You can spend a few months writing about everything under the sun and get to really know another person as a friend. You can ask intimate and personal questions and give intimate and personal answers. Things like how many children do you want to have? How important is sex to you? Cuddling? Kissing? Dancing? etc...

Once you make friends over the Internet and see that this really could be the one person for you, then both of you should have no reason to be shy upong meeting in person. After all you are old friends. When you see her, give her a bear hug and a kiss on the cheek. In fact, if the idea of this makes you nervous, then discuss it all in advance with your friend. You don't have to say that you are shy, just ask your friend straight out if she feels comfortable with a big hug when you meet or if she would be comfortable to hold hands with you while walking.

In this type of situation I would recommend that you arrange to *NOT* meet at the airport. Get yourself settled and get rid of your luggage. Have a shower and a shave. Then, when you are unencumbered and at your best, go meet her.

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Happy birthday Jerico !!!!

Rattle

Posted by: Jerico

Thanks Jill ,Bob and Rattle for the birthday wishes !!

Jerry

Posted by: James Riske

Shy,

You're ass is grass and you're about to be thrown to a pack of hungry wolves.

If you enter the dating world inexperienced or 'shy', you are screwed buddy.

Just have a body bag ready, the women will use you and eat you alive. You'll know what I mean in about fifteen years when you've been through enough of them to know.

Posted by: RomanticTX

Shy,
How old are you my friend!
Secondly, I would recomend you to go to a small agency. They tend to know their girls very well and they can hook you up with a girl that could fit you better!
Don't go to the mega sites as they don't know anything about their girls!

Posted by: FlashingEyes

RomanticTx,

In his original post on this thread, Shy states, "When he was in his late 30'ties, like I'm at the moment..." Therefore, we can conclude Shy is in his late 30's.

Posted by: Nick

Hello all,

I had this very same question but never got around to asking.
My situation is the same as shys. I'm 35 years old, extremely shy, no experiance with women (only been on 6 dates in my life), had rejection, and I'm at the point in my life when I want to find a wife. If I'm in a situation where it would be natural to start talking to a woman I can do so. But I'm still to shy walk up to girl and ask her out. How do women from the FSU feel about men who are very shy? Would they be interested in a very shy man?

Quote:

The first thing I notice when I read your post is that you spend a lot of time telling me who you are not, but where is it that you tell me WHO YOU ARE? What are you passionate about? What are your strong beleifs? What are some things that you love? The first step you need to take is to stop defining yourself by who you are not and instead define yourself by who you are.

This is very true and its very important when trying to attract women. It is also important that you do this for your self. When you do women will be more attracted to you. However, for the purpose of shys question. Telling us about his situation with shyness is necessary. Because the question is: How will women from the FSU react to extremely shy men?

All these post about what to do about shyness is good advice but it doesn't answer the question. If your normal shy your problem with shyness can be easily overcome by following their advice. But if your "Love Shy" the problem is much more severe and not as easy to overcome.

Love shy is a life crippling conditon. Love-shyness is a form of chronic, severe shyness of people who have never been able to form sexual or emotionally intimate loving relationships with others and afflicts approximately 1.5 precent of most male populations.

If most of the following statements apply to you, then it is very likely that you are love-shy.

1)You are an adult male
2)You have never, or very rarely had girlfriends
3)You have never, or very rarely had sex
4)You have remained single while all your friends dated and got married
5)You are so inhibited by your fear of asking a woman for a date that you never do.

If you feel you might be love shy PM me and I'll e-mail you privately.

How will women from the FSU react to men who are very "normal" shy? Would they be interested in very shy men?

Posted by: rtking

Nick, I might be going out on a limb here and post a response for the "stereotypical" woman in the FSU, but here goes...

I think most women would prefer to find a man who is their equal. That said, I would tend to believe that a woman would like to find someone who isn't terribly shy and can take control of most situations when need be.

You referred to "Love Shyness" which, I suppose, is different than social shyness. If you're shy about approaching women (as opposed to being shy around all people... men, women, children, etc.) then I suppose it would really depend on the woman. I think some women don't mind a man who's confident in all other areas but is a bit shy in the romance department. In fact, I know some women who find it refreshing when a man is courteous and isn't insistent with sexual and physical advances.

It might be easy to hypothesize about all the scenarios, but IMHO, I think it's best to just get out there and meet someone. (Write to them first if that raises your confidence level.) Let them know who you are as a person and build that friendship. Then go and meet them. Maybe things will be easier after that!

I've got to add though... from your list of traits of the "love shy", I would HIGHLY recommend speaking with a counselor or therapist. If someone meets those criteria, it sounds like it might be borderline socially-crippling. There's nothing wrong with speaking with a counselor (I do) and having a fresh perspective really can help with understanding a situation.

Bob

Posted by: wavetossed

I will generally echo Khashyar's advice to not let love shyness hold you back and to make friends by letter/email writing and then just go visit your new friend and see how things work out. If it all falls apart, that is just as good as a success because you will be able to see what you need to change. Either what you need to improve in yourself or what you need to learn in letters before committing to another visit. Older and wiser.

I may be "love shy" myself. I certainly have little dating experience and most of my sexual experience was with my wife of 20 years, who I separated from a couple of years ago. I haven't had a lot of dating success since then, but I have had great success with a Russian woman. We wrote several times per week for 4 months before I visited her. I conciously played the role of a confident man in my life at home and when I met her. I opened doors, gave her my arm, led her around the many obstacles on the sidewalks, carried her twice across big mud puddles, carried her suitcase, always carried the heaviest shopping bags, etc. Although I have no background in the military, I've practiced walking with a military posture for a couple of years which has helped my general health as well as making me feel more confident.

In the end, this Russian woman confessed that she was normally very shy with men. That's why, at 32 years of age, she had only one 6 month marriage and no kids. She said that her friends were shocked that she was taking the bus, 4 hours to the big city, to meet a foreign man. Funny thing is, that in the letters, she never seemed shy. Written communication is an excellent way to make a connection with another person.

The other thing is Khsashyar's advice about therapy. Do it! If you cannot bring yourself to contact a relationship or sex therapist, then check your local papers until you find the ones that advertise escort services. Yes, these are prostitutes and will have sex for money. But if you stick with the ones that charge somewhere between $100-$200 per hour, then you will have no difficulty finding one who will provide "sex therapy" for you. Just make sure you explain your situation up front. These women are often sub-contracted by sex therapists to help their clients. Just stay away from massage parlours, streetwalkers, sex clubs etc. If you are hiring a prostitute for sex therapy then you need to deal with the higher priced independent escorts. They may pay an agency for referrals but they will see customers either in their own apartments or in your hotel room. All you need to do is to get over the worst of your shyness.

And if you worry about what your girlfriend will think if you tell her you visited a prostitute, then don't. It's none of your business who she slept with in the past and it's none of her business who you slept with in the past. Focus on the here and now and understand that people do change as they become older and wiser.

Posted by: Shy

Hello all,

I want to thank everyone for their replies. I�ll try more or less to answer the replies everyone wrote.

First I�m not �normal� shy. I can communicate with other people, either men or women, known or unknown, at my work, in the street, in a train station, when visiting a foreign land in either my own language or a foreign one. I meet quite a lot of people though my hobby, or I should say hobbies, cause I got several. Most of the people I meet are men, however. And IF I meet a young woman in my hobby (so I know she is interested in the same things I�m interested in) she always taken. So there you go.

I know (or hope to know more or less) how to write a letter to a dating agency. You can write it, read it, rewrite it, reread it, till it�s what you think it should be. I can write such a letter, in which I �present� myself. But say you join a dating agency, and at that agency you�ll find a nice woman, who appears to have more or less the same interests as you have. You email with her several months, arrange to visit her. You meet her, the both of you really connect, and after a couple of days she expects you to kiss her. And than? You can�t possible fake experience. How will she react if she finds out at that moment, that you�re love shy, and you don�t know what to do? Will she be turned off? Will she think that there is something wrong with you? Will she get angry? Or will she understand? This is the real problem.

Rtking wrote: What if your friends tell you that you're a great, kind and caring guy, do you accept that�� Well, at university my fellow students (including the women, I might add) told me several times that they thought I was a nice guy, smart, pleasant. Usually I replied with �thanks for the compliment� or �tell me something I don�t know�. But that�s just it, they (the girls) never thought of me more than nice, ever. I would have reacted instantly if they would have given me a hint that they liked me more than just nice. I might be just thick you know�
His second reply gave me some strengthening: �In fact, I know some women who find it refreshing when a man is courteous and isn't insistent with sexual and physical advances.� However, seeing a counselor, I don�t know. In Holland people quickly thing there is something �wrong� with you.

Nick gave some statements of love shy, and I can only say, �Guilty on all charges�. Well, perhaps not the 5th one. I rarely meet women due to my work (I�m a programmer). And my hobbies, well I grow cacti (a lot!), but I�m interested in lots of things in nature, like butterflies, dragonflies, fish, amphibians, stuff like that. And, at least in Holland, very few girls and young women are interested in those things.

Maybe I should just start with an agency and see what happens. The reaction of James Riske doesn�t give me a lot of hope though.

Shy

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Shy , my gf is shy - her written letters are selfless, free spirited and warm but she has diffculties in meeting and keeping a relationship due to shyness. I am shy too - although I hide it now through my acting abilities and through walking through the uncomfortable feelings which can hit me when I feel shy .
I am sure there is a woman who can understand you , shy and you just need to meet her .

rattle

Posted by: wavetossed

Cacti? Great!

In the part of Russia that I visited, Ekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk in the south Urals, I noticed that cacti and succulents were quite popular. I saw them in the windows of offices all over the place and most florist shops sold a selection of them. I even tracked down a bryophyllum which I have not been able to find in London.

If I were you I would mention that in your letter because, a) it shows that you have broader interests than just sports, b) it is a nurturing activity and women like that and, c) she may also share the interest or at least have friends who share it.

By the way, a Russian woman will probably be quite happy with your profession because it is a modern skill in high demand which implies that you can earn a regular income and provide for a family.

Now fish is also an interesting interest. In Russia there are a lot of large rivers which have a lot of tributaries and lakes connected to them. In these rivers are many species of fish unknown outside Russia. The Russians, eat a lot of them because Russians tend to eat more fish than any other kind of meat. I know that Russians living in London miss their unique Russian fish and when a local shop started importing them, they got a lot of business from homesick Russians. Also, when you get away from the large cities into the Urals and Siberia, the people spend a lot more time out in nature doing things like camping and fishing.

This leads to two good things for you. 1) there is something about Russia that you are naturally interested in. Russian women (and men) are very proud of their country and its resources. If you show some genuine interest in the place that the woman comes from, it helps her to open up to you and trust you. 2) there is a real possibility of finding a Russian woman who likes fishing if you look for women from smaller towns and cities far from Moscow.

By the way, women from smaller towns are more likely to be shy and more likely to have little or no sexual experience. And in Russia, once a woman is 23 or so and has not been married, she is considered to be an old maid. If I were you I would only write to women from towns less than 100,000 population. If you need to deal through an agency, then find some in the Urals or Siberia and write to the agency asking them which of their girls grew up in such a town. Sometimes women will not list their true home town with an agency because it is unknown outside Russia. They want men to come to visit them and men are less likely to do that if they have never heard of the town.

In case you are wondering, my girlfriend lives in a town of 50,000 in the South Urals which happens to be about the same size as the mountain town that I grew up in, in Canada.

When you make friends with a woman through email, then you should discuss your sexual situation with her, frankly and openly. But choose your words carefully. It's bad to say "I'm so shy that I have never had sex". But it is good to say "I am not a man who wants to have sex with a lot of women. I'm looking for a special woman to share this with". Do you see the difference? In the second quote you let her know that you do not have much sexual experience but you do it in a way that will lead her to respect you and want to meet you. And you lay the groundwork so that when you finally do have sex with her, and something goes wrong, then you can both just laugh at the situation and try again. Believe me, this happens to the most experience men/women and the best thing to do is to laugh out loud and apologize with a smile. A good woman won't mind this at all as long as you are willing to continue, try again, do something for her, etc. You can't plan a sexual encounter in advance but you can have a plan for how to handle the inevitable stuff-ups.

Let me explain a similar situation that I had with train tickets. My girlfriend had to repurchase our train tickets because the original one was not in my name because you need to show your passport in person to buy a ticket. After 90 minutes in the queue, she had her refund and bought the new tickets. Then she realized that they were on the wrong day. She had stuffed up. She became very upset and angry at herself. I told her to relax, calm down, it's a small problem, we can solve it together, let's just go back in the queue. She gave me a big hug and began to cry, but this time she was crying because she was so happy that I wasn't mad. Sex can be like this. Something goes wrong and the best thing to do is just give your partner a hug and try again.

Posted by: CDarwin

Quote:

Originally posted by James Riske
Shy,

You're ass is grass and you're about to be thrown to a pack of hungry wolves.

If you enter the dating world inexperienced or 'shy', you are screwed buddy.

Just have a body bag ready, the women will use you and eat you alive. You'll know what I mean in about fifteen years when you've been through enough of them to know.

JR, dude, that is just HARSH!!!

Posted by: neil277

Hello Shy.

First there is nothing wrong with being shy but!!! i feel the wrong Russian woman will eat you alive and will have know respect for you and all you will be is a game to them.

First i would join a Drama Class for at least six months and this will bring the best out in you, look in the mirror everyday and say i'm the best and i can do anything and make things happen, but please keep your feet on the ground and don't get to big for your own boots.

I understand you have visited the Ukraine go to Odessa and visit www.ukrainebride.net speak with the owner or his young lady they will find you the right lady and this site is very honest.

Yes a Russian lady likes you to be strong but working as a team is the most inportant thing in a relationship.

I wish you luck in your search.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: neil277

Hello Shy.

I have just read your letter and friend you are puting yourself down all the time, if you carry on this way and do meet a Russian Lady you will be just another case on the scam sites.

I will look at James letter to you but i feel James is right even if i have not read his letter, i feel you are very down for some reason and you need to pick yourself up and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

This is what you should be looking like below so please take control of your life and you mentioned kissing some people start kissing whitin seconds of meeting each other there is know time scale on relationships.

Regards

Neil

Posted by: phila

Quote:

Originally posted by Shy
Hello all,

I have been visiting various dating sites on the Internet for some time now. Not just Russian/Ukrainian, but also South American. All the sites contain thousands of beautiful and lovely ladies, eager to marry a Western man. And I'm indeed tempted to start up with a dating agency to find me a wife. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Russian/Ukranian/Moldovian woman, but I would like her to have some higher education, and that is not so common in South America. But I'm also quite cautious about finding a woman and marrying her.

The point is, I haven't got that much experience with women (as in at all!). I guess I was and am just to shy and timid to walk up to a girl and ask her out. I've tried in the past, but was always turned down, varying from a polite 'no' to a look like 'how do you even dare to speak to me'. The point is, I'm at a point in my life where I have to decide whether I want to stay alone forever, or want to find a wife, a lover and a partner. And frankly, being alone for the coming 30-40 years doesn't attract me that much. And via the Internet you can get acquainted without the girl or woman seeing you stutter or get all red. But I've read that most Russian/Ukrainian/Moldavian women are quite strong and independent. And I'm very wary about that compared to my experience (or lack of it). I've seen it with an acquaintance of mine. He was also, well, like me. When he was in his late 30'ties, like I'm at the moment, he got acquainted with a Dutch woman of about 6-7 years younger. And although she is not a bad wife, he never stood a chance. She had so much experience in relations compared to him, that she knew exactly how to play it. And that is something I would like to avoid.

I want to add that there is nothing wrong with me. Not mentally, not physically (I'm about 1,95 and about 90 kg), I've got a decent job and if I have to speak to a unknown audience about something I know, like my hobby, I've got no problems in either Dutch or English. But I'm just too shy for women. And the question is, how would the women from Russia/Ukrainia/Moldavia react to that? Cause I think that they are hardly used to, well, someone like me. Any reaction from the females on this forum?

Shy

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Shy,

First off all of what Im going to say preassumes that you dont have a medical condition (psychological issue) with self esteem.... with that said, rejection is a part of the deal. You are going to have to accept the fact that you will get rejected by women. Every man at one time or another has been "shot down" for the vast majority (ie 99.5%) of men its a regular occurance. Its what the saying "men pick but women choose" means. You have to begin to BELIEVE that the rejection is not personal. You dont know her, she doesnt know you..... Rattlesnake is right go to sosuave.com and begin to read and learn.

Being shy, is a nice way of saying Im afraid of rejection. First off, you need to forget women for at least the next 3-6 months. You need to focus on improving you. Not for the sake of meeing a woman but for the sake if improving the quality of life you have.

If you dont have hobbies get one. If you are out of shape, get into shape. Hit the gym and make it a LIFESTYLE decision. Fix your diet you probably dont eat as healty as you should... if so, CHANGE IT. It will make you FEEL better, is a healthier lifestyle and will give you personal confidence. When you feel good and look good you have confidence. What about your wardrobe? How old are your clothes? Do you have even a mild sense of fashion? If you dont get a GQ and look at the ads to see what you like, and dont like. Start to replace your out of date, warn out clothes. If you have hygene issues then you need to change that immediately. Shave before you go out... make sure you and your clothes are clean. Brush your teeth. If you need dental work, get it taken care of. Look at your teeth.... if a woman smiled at you (with your teeth and mouth) would you want to kiss her? What about your shoes? Believe it or not, women NOTICE them. Are they falling apart or are they in great shape with a nice shine on them? What is your pad like? Is it the kind of place that would make a woman comfortable? Is it clean? If not hire merry maides to come out and clean it.... I say do that because if your pad isnt clean you obviously dont like doing that.

Re read that paragraph. Not once did I mention anything specific about how to talk to or meet women. Why do you suppose that is? What you need to accept is that until you feel great about you, nothing anyone can say or do is going to draw the interest of a healthy, successful wonderful woman. Confidence is about having ALL of these things in order. I dont think Im better than the vast majority of single guys out there.... I KNOW I AM.
That sounds arrogant doesnt it? Its not though. I dont think Im better because Im somehow entitled or that anything like that. Why? Not because I think I am better but because I see how they act, how they dress, how they talk, what there homes look like (inside)... When you have spent time on your body, your appearance, your hobbies, your home you will begin to exude confidence and that, any woman finds attractive in a man. I dont know of a single guy who doesnt get rejected from women he is potentially interested in..... its just a fact of life. Once you accept the fact that its not you personally being rejected then rejection doesn't paralize you, like it does right now.

When you really get dialed in, you wont care if a woman rejects your interest in her. It simply wont matter to you... because you know you have a lot to offer someone. More than the vast majority of single men out there. You wont rush into a relationship with just any woman. You will be able to be in control of yourself and give it time to show if this woman you are interested in deserves your love, time and heart. By being emotionally healthy, in control of your life and having a happy, healthy and full life, you wont feel this desperate need to find a woman to fill the void in your life. You are waiting for the RIGHT person, not just any person.

Posted by: phila

Being a Russian woman I would mention - some of them might find it charming.
As for me, the most interesting things about guys are bright personality, intelligence, good temper.
Sometimes if male is shy and silent he seems very serious and thoughtful. He doesn't risk to say smth stupid...

Posted by: James Riske

Quote:

Originally posted by CDarwin
JR, dude, that is just HARSH!!!

No, it's the truth.

He's a young man and he'll get put through the ringer at least a few times before he's 40 or so and then wise up and snap out of this 'nice, shy guy' routine of his. You and I both know that women will have him for lunch the way he is now. Shy, inexperienced, overly accomodating, fearful.....

Of course the women around him are treating him as a 'nice guy' and 'sweet' and all that. But that's not what a woman wants. A woman wants a man and the way he's acting now he's going to hear, "Let's just be friends.." a few hundred times before he smartens up and acts more naturally as a man.

Nature made men and women different for a reason and women are attracted to men, not 'girly men'. He needs to just relax and not be so afraid to express himself as a man. Stop trying to change himself and be Mr. Nice guy and a Whimpus Americanus to attract women.

Frankly guys, I'm attracted to women. I'm attracted to females and women who are not afraid to be women; I expect women are much the same way in their attraction to men.

Being Mr. Nice Guy is wonderful if you want to do errands for her or fix her car.....but if you want to date and romance her, it's best to be a man.

Posted by: James Riske

Quote:

Originally posted by RobOhioGuy

When you really get dialed in, you wont care if a woman rejects your interest in her. It simply wont matter to you... because you know you have a lot to offer someone. More than the vast majority of single men out there. You wont rush into a relationship with just any woman. You will be able to be in control of yourself and give it time to show if this woman you are interested in deserves your love, time and heart. By being emotionally healthy, in control of your life and having a happy, healthy and full life, you wont feel this desperate need to find a woman to fill the void in your life. You are waiting for the RIGHT person, not just any person.

Rob,

That's probably the best advice I've ever read on here.

The guy should copy your post, print it out and clean up his personal life and do all the things you suggest. The women will be drawn to his confidence like flies.

James

Posted by: phila

"But that's not what a woman wants. ...."
"... He needs to just relax and not be so afraid to express himself as a man.... "

If woman knows what she wants - she gets it.
I hate "manhandling" (is it what you mean and how they call it?).
It's the best way for a guy to get rid of me.
Though - tastes differ. I guess your way sometimes works. Better to say, worked in old days. The morals have changed now.
Irina

Posted by: Shy

Hello all,

Thanks again for the input. This means a lot to me.

Wavetossed, you�ve given me some valuable advice. The fact that cacti are and succulents are popular in Ekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk seems to give me some chance of finding someone with the same interest(s) as I have. Re: fish. I used to fish quite a lot when I was younger. Now it�s �just� a interest like in the rest of nature. Nevertheless this is also a good one. The question is now how to find an agency which really knows the girls and women and where they are coming from. I come from a small town (12.000 inhabitants) but than again, the nearest city is about 5 minutes by train. Holland seems to be one big city compared to the vast emptiness of Russia.

Neil277, I haven�t visited the Ukraine so far. I might do that after I have spoken to the owner.

RobOhioGuy, Have you read my reply on the 24th of September? I do have hobbies, I�m not out of shape. Although I don�t do sport in the regular sense I cycle quite a lot, and have plenty of other exercise. I eat healthy enough, and I daresay healthier than the majority of the Dutch. Fashion would be a problem, I have absolutely no idea about fashion, I just wear what suits me and which feels nice, mostly cotton and wool. I have no hygiene problem nor any dental problems. I do have a beard, which I keep short and groomed, and I�m balding (that couldn�t be it, could it?). My house is not a mess either. I have two University degrees, I speak next to Dutch and English also German and Spanish. Plenty to be confident about, right? Wrong, because when it comes to romance, asking a girl out for a dinner or to a dance, I completely freeze up. It�s that attitude that gets rejected, I know, but I can�t seem to change.

James, You tell me to change my act. What if I can�t? It�s my character, and I don�t think I could change my character to be someone else. It would mean playing a role for the rest of the relation/marriage, wouldn�t it? If it would turn to that, I might as well quit now. Besides, I don�t believe that there are no girls/women who would be interested in a nice/shy person. Unless there is a way to be a nice, shy man, and a man.

Pyla/Irina, Your words reinforced my believe that there are actually girls/women who would be attracted to a nice, shy guy. Now �all� I have to do is find them.

I invite everybody who replied to my initial thread to visit
http://www.love-shy.com and download the book from Dr. Gilmartin there. That makes my situation (and the situation of men like me) a lot more understandable.

Shy

Posted by: RobOhioGuy

Quote:

Originally posted by Shy
Hello all,

Thanks again for the input. This means a lot to me.

Wavetossed, you�ve given me some valuable advice. The fact that cacti are and succulents are popular in Ekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk seems to give me some chance of finding someone with the same interest(s) as I have. Re: fish. I used to fish quite a lot when I was younger. Now it�s �just� a interest like in the rest of nature. Nevertheless this is also a good one. The question is now how to find an agency which really knows the girls and women and where they are coming from. I come from a small town (12.000 inhabitants) but than again, the nearest city is about 5 minutes by train. Holland seems to be one big city compared to the vast emptiness of Russia.

Neil277, I haven�t visited the Ukraine so far. I might do that after I have spoken to the owner.

RobOhioGuy, Have you read my reply on the 24th of September? I do have hobbies, I�m not out of shape. Although I don�t do sport in the regular sense I cycle quite a lot, and have plenty of other exercise. I eat healthy enough, and I daresay healthier than the majority of the Dutch. Fashion would be a problem, I have absolutely no idea about fashion, I just wear what suits me and which feels nice, mostly cotton and wool. I have no hygiene problem nor any dental problems. I do have a beard, which I keep short and groomed, and I�m balding (that couldn�t be it, could it?). My house is not a mess either. I have two University degrees, I speak next to Dutch and English also German and Spanish. Plenty to be confident about, right? Wrong, because when it comes to romance, asking a girl out for a dinner or to a dance, I completely freeze up. It�s that attitude that gets rejected, I know, but I can�t seem to change.

James, You tell me to change my act. What if I can�t? It�s my character, and I don�t think I could change my character to be someone else. It would mean playing a role for the rest of the relation/marriage, wouldn�t it? If it would turn to that, I might as well quit now. Besides, I don�t believe that there are no girls/women who would be interested in a nice/shy person. Unless there is a way to be a nice, shy man, and a man.

Pyla/Irina, Your words reinforced my believe that there are actually girls/women who would be attracted to a nice, shy guy. Now �all� I have to do is find them.

I invite everybody who replied to my initial thread to visit
http://www.love-shy.com and download the book from Dr. Gilmartin there. That makes my situation (and the situation of men like me) a lot more understandable.

Shy

Shy

Those things are where confidence starts it isnt the end all of confidence, merely a begining. The key IMHO, is that your life should make happy and complete. Too many men suffer from needing a woman to make there life instead of having a full life and sharing that life with a woman. There is a marked and significant difference. My point was if you dont have those things in order, start there.... since you do, you need to work on the how do I find the right woman aspect of things.

First you need to be able recognize when a woman is sending you signals that she is approachable and would welcome your approach. Most of the signals men and women happen send are at a subconcious level. If you dont recognize them, you wont have much success in finding the right woman on your own.

A great exercise to help make you more comfortable in approaching a woman is go to your local mall.... walk from one end to the other. Force yourself to make eye contact with every woman who is with a group of other women or walking by herself. A lot of them, perhaps most of them, will quickly look away. A few of them wont. When you make eye contact dont break it... let her break eye contact.... you may even have a few of them smile at you. That is a woman who is approachable and finds you initally attractive. The point of the exercise is not to do anything more than begin to tear down your shyness, which in reality is nothing more than fear of rejection. You will also begin to get a feel for when a woman is interested in having you approach and start a conversation. If you change your focus away from terms of sucess and failure into merely gaining experience then the outcome wont have value other than it is more experience. Try forcing yourself to speak with women everywhere you go.... a great way to do this is when you are in a store. If you have a choice between a check out clerk who is a guy and one who is a woman, choose the woman..... make small talk.... for no other reason that to begin to be comfortable talking to women.

And clinging to your position that "It�s my character, and I don�t think I could change my character to be someone else." Isnt going to cut it. You have to make a CHOICE to change that part of your personality. If you were a pathological liar you wouldnt be telling people that you dont think you could change that part of your personality would you? Are you telling me you think not trying to change or eradicate character flaws is ok? Shyness is a character flaw and you should treat it as such. You need to change how you think about this problem or you will never have any success with the kind of woman you probably want to be with. That highly attractive, successful, intellegent woman isnt going to seek out a guy who wont approach him.
She is too busy disqualifing the guys who do approach her! Start with the eye contact exercise... then make a point of talking to as many women as possible on a daily basis....REMEMBER the point of the exercise is NOT to 'date or ask out' a woman... it is merely to break down the inhibitions you have built up about women. I make a point of whenever I am in a department story to SEEK out help from a female sales person or clerk.... I flirt shamelessly with them.... why? So that when I am in a situation with a woman I am interested in that I am comfortable and can totally be myself with her.

Another key for you is if a woman starts a conversation with you that you dont know..... odds are pretty fair that she is interested in you. That of course, doesnt hold true if you are at work..... but usually when a woman tries to start a conversation with you, she isnt doing so because she is bored! If you work on these exercises when something like this happens you wont feel so uncomfortable.

One last note.... get used to messing up opportunities. It happens to almost every guy..... an opportunity will present itself and you'll blow it.... it happens, its ok, move on and keep working on being comfortable approaching and talking to women... the more you practice, the less you will mess up... the more often you will recognize when a woman is saying to you (non verbally) hey, you..... why dont you come over and say hello....

Posted by: BradIL

Good post Rob.