Return from Russia...Unattached (Chapters 1,2, etc...) - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Return from Russia...Unattached (Chapters 1,2, etc...)
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Posted by: Charles

Hello everyone.
I am back on the site.
I spent 3 weeks in Russia in June and July.
When I returned, I began working on a dissertation and have been consumed by that obligation.
As I find time, I will update a summary of my visit and the soap opera with my Russian girlfriend.

I arrived in mid June in Moscow(Sheremetyevo2). I flew Aeroflot and was satisfied with the flight crew and service. I was greeted by a one hour line to get my visa stamped. I still managed to arrive at the baggage carousel before my luggage.

My girlfriend met me at the gate from customs, where I was not checked or asked questions. I was simply waved through.

My girlfriend and I were both exhausted. She had spent 24 hours on a train from Volgograd and I had been on airplanes for 21 hours. We just fell into step together and she told me she had a taxi to take us to our hotel for $45. I said that was fine. The hotel was the Ognikovo on the northern highway loop outside Moscow and the young cab driver could not find it. It was very exciting and scary to go through Moscow traffic going 80 mph in a little light car. I was initiated into Russian (extreme) driving the hard way. The hotel was very good. I will go into details later for everyone and load some pictures.

Relationship details first:

My girlfriend and I will not meet again and be married.

We had problems from the beginning (everyone take note, especially those who have not met their FSU loved one yet). It felt funny because we had a very satisfying connection until we met. She told me later she was upset because I did not look like my pictures. In my defense, the pictures I sent her were honest and recent. They were not even especially flattering. I am a big guy, 6 ft 2in and 240 lbs. She said she did not think I would be so much larger than her. She is 5 ft tall and 100 lbs. But she did not look good either. Her hair and makeup were a mess. I knew it was because she had traveled on the red eye train to Moscow and rushed to the airport to greet me, she was downcast by my well-traveled appearance.
We arrived at the hotel and unpacked, ate dinner, and later exchanged gifts. She gave me a very nice gold tie clip. I gave her an assortment of silk sleepwear, chocolates, perfume, and a respectable string of pearls. She seemed happy and embarrassed by receiving gifts. I took that as a good sign. I showed her the gifts I brought for her family. She approved of them very much. A Craftsman tool set for her father and a nice plush robe for her mother.
We shared a romantic evening together. She speaks English and that made things easier. It was very nice and sweet.

The next day, Saturday, we went hiking ( I will explain about the hotel Ogniokovo in a later posting). We walked to the local shop for some foods and wine. Everything seems good for Saturday night. We settle in for another romantic evening, but something was wrong. I asked her and she tells me I look different in my photos than in person. I was thinking she did too, but I was not concerned about it. She said it was a problem for her. She was obviously detaching herself on the second night. I was upset. Not because things were difficult and not as wonderful as hoped. I knew there was a very real possibility we would not be totally compatible. I knew it might not work for her and me. I was upset she was not even trying to be friendly and we had 3 more weeks to spend together. Even if we were not to be in love, I wanted us to be friends and have one hell of a vacation. After all, she convinced me to spend so much time with her in Russia.
Sunday was awkward. I was unhappy the trip seemed to be doomed to be miserable.

On Monday, the visit will take a very drastic turn. More later…

Posted by: Charles

It was decided between us we would go into Moscow most of the coming week. We have a good heart to heart talk on Monday morning. I reminded her we began as friends and we should remember that. She agrees and I feel better and I can tell she does too.
We took the bus from the hotel into Istra, one of the many small cities outside Moscow. We take the Istra bus into Moscow. It is a 90 minute drive and costs about$1.80 for both of us. We both have to stand beside the driver. He sees my Tennessee Vols t-shirt and starts to sing the Rocky Top song (no lie). He did not know the words, but he knew the melody from satellite tv. My girlfriend translates a short conversation between us as he and I compare the experiences of attending and playing American and world football games. She is amazed that I allow old women and children to have bus seats I could easily take for her and me. She laughs at me as I sway to the stops and starts of the bus. It is unusual for me to be standing on a bus, but I get used to it eventually. When we reach the bus terminal in Moscow, the bus driver asks me why I am in Moscow. I tell my girlfriend to tell him I came to see a friend. She embraces me around the waist and tells the driver I came to see her because she was my girlfriend.
Well, that was an interesting development!

It was a short walk to the metro station (very impressive) and we went to validate my visa, eat lunch and go to Red Square and the parks around it. It was a beautiful, hot summer day. She did not let go of me the entire time. She is holding my hand, embracing me, kissing my cheek, and apologizing for her behavior on Saturday and Sunday. I am not sure how to feel about it, but I like her, so, no problem.
We went to the new Christ Cathedral and the Moscow River. Moscow is a wonderful city. We return for three more days in Moscow seeing the Shilova Museum and the zoo.
When we return to the hotel, my girlfriend tells me she was wrong to feel bad about our meeting and she was sorry and wanted to start again.
I agree to do this,…ok.

A few details.
My girlfriend paid for everything the first five days we were together. She took very good care of me. She paid for the taxi to the hotel, food, museums, …everything.
She refused to allow me to spend any money. I found that to be very interesting. I do not think it is too unusual for Russian women.

She thought going 'dutch' was a strange idea.
On Wednesday, we decide to spend the night in Moscow at a hotel. We stay at the Beta hotel of the Moliva hotel complex. It was ok. My girlfriend paid again. I was excited because there was a Chinese restaurant across the street from the hotels, but my girlfriend adamantly refuses to eat Chinese food. She said people die from eating Chinese food in Russia! She could not be persuaded. (She also said I would become sick from drinking my milk cold.) I was crushed. By the fourth day I had practically stopped eating at our hotel. My pallette did not adjust well to Russian food.

There were three interesting things about this hotel. The first was I had my first experience with the notorious Russian prostitution. Four or five women knocked on our hotel door. My girlfriend would answer the door, speak to them briefly, and close the door. She said it was hotel business. The fourth woman became angry and raised her voice before she left. I asked my girlfriend what happened and she said the girl was angry because she was losing business because of Russian women having American boyfriends. I laughed and said I would answer the door next time. She pointed her finger at me and said I would not. She pointed her finger at me a lot, now that I think about it. About this time I was lying on the bed with shoes on. She pointed and waved her finger again and told me not to have my shoes on the bed. She said Russia is dirty and there are dangerous things in the ground. She said, in America dirt is not so dirty. I loved it when she would say things like that. She had a million of them. She worked for the Russian version of OSHA and the EPA, so she probably knew what she was talking about. She has the rank of major in the federal THO (I think that is the correct agency acronym).

The second interesting thing at the hotel was the television. I was taking a shower before bed. I heard a scream from the bedroom. I come out running and dripping water. My girlfriend is sitting on the bed and pointing at the television. She sees me looking confused and soaked. She smiles and says, “Look! It is “Sex in the Big City”. She had always wanted to see that show. She really wanted me to sit on the bed and watch it with her. So I did. I felt right at home in a familiar situation.

The third interesting thing at the hotel was the 'vernasach' beside it. It is what we call a swap meet or flea market. It was very large and I had a blast there. I found all the hokey soviet-type souvenirs for my family and friends. I bought woolen shawls for my female relatives. I bought some Russian army compasses for my local boy scout and cub scout troops. It was very cool and I had a great time there. I wanted some Russian military hats with dozens of generic Russian and Soviet medals on them. They were 120 rubles each. I told my girlfriend I wanted some for my friends. She looked at them and laughed and told me and the vendor some of the medals were from her agency. She pointed at the medals and showed her official identification passport complete with her in dress uniform and a scowl. The vendor stopped laughing and would not take more than 60 rubles for any of the hats. I was impressed. There is more to this woman than meets the eye.

This basic situation lasts until Friday night. We take the train to Volgograd in a private little room on Saturday morning. By Friday night, my girlfriend and I are having a very good time with each other and we both have very warm and deep feelings for each other again. I am seeing the qualities in her I liked in our extensive letters and phone calls. Things are better. The days are sweet and the nights are very romantic and I had some powerful butterflies in my stomach.

She was very charming and sweet now. She told me she was happy I did not become very angry with her at the beginning of our visit and decide to leave or ask her to go home. We both were leaving Moscow happy.

End of week one. Two more weeks to follow.

Posted by: Keystone

Welcome back Charles. When is the next chapter coming out?

Keystone

Posted by: Lloyd Patterson

I don't get it. You two meet and then agree that you don't get along and at night she gets jealous of whores coming to your door and shakes her finger at you to stay put and chases them away?

I would have chucked her on the nearest train out of there and snuggled up to one of the whores.

Why waste your time on her if you didn't hit if off in person?

I had that happen to me, I met a woman in Russia I was writing to and she acted cold and *****y so I politely got rid of her and had a great time with the whores. I hired a new one each day to spend the whole day and night with me. I had a great time.

Whimpus Americanus men take way too much crap from women.

Posted by: searcher

Quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Patterson

I would have chucked her on the nearest train out of there and snuggled up to one of the whores.

Why waste your time on her if you didn't hit if off in person?

[Snipped]....so I politely got rid of her and had a great time with the whores. I hired a new one each day to spend the whole day and night with me. I had a great time.

Whimpus Americanus men take way too much crap from women.

So what FUTURE woman would think you were serious if they knew you were with those whores?

Would you want a woman who have would behaved in the same manor????

Its not a personal attack just an analysis of ones behavior. I don't think ANY woman would take a man seriously under those circumstances.

It does not matter to the one you didn't want but it will matter to the future ones you pursue!

Posted by: Lloyd Patterson

What are you talking about?

At that point in the story, it was mutually agreed that they weren't compatable in that way, right? So what's the difference?

And what are you asking? Would I not want a woman who slept with men before me? Are you saying that I should only pick virgins? Are you nuts?

Why don't you get off your high moral horse and stop judging others who just want to enjoy life and have a little mutually enjoyable fun?

And it's in poor taste to ask people what they've done in their past and who they have slept with. Who cares? What's important is who they are now and what they plan on doing. I NEVER ask a woman about her prior relationships and could care less if she's slept the an entire soccer team of if she was a daddy's girl virgin.

There's nothing wrong with a single guy enjoying the company of a whore for an evening and there's nothing wrong with a single woman having sex with the man of her choice either.

Enjoy life!

Posted by: searcher

My point was not a moral one entirely.

Yes, some people will have a problem with that morally but also MOST women i've met WOULD NOT TRUST A MAN WHO HAS BEEN WITH WHORES.

WHY, you may ask because most i've known have said that they think it is risky behavior health wise. Sure, it is not any riskier than some of the women in town BUT it does not leave a favorable impression AND if they somehow discovered this, it may not be a good thing for a relationship.

True, it would be impolite to ask certain questions but I think IF you felt a womans past behavior was high risk you would have some reservations.

I didn't ask my ex-wife about her past but when I learned of one really EXTREME thing she did it REALLY explained alot about her and her behavior. She crossed some borders that I have not know anyone else personally to do, things i've only heard of on Jerry Springer!

Sometimes how your behavior is PERCEIVED may have an effect upon your future relationships.

I don't mean that as a moral judgement, do as you wish I am just telling you how I THINK it may play out if a woman were to know. You may think otherwise and that is your perogative.

Posted by: sidney

I am happy for you that things took a turn around. It was unfortunate that neither of you were at your best for your first meeting. Do you see a future with this lady? Do you plan to visit her again? This is an intersting story that I'm curious how it ends.
Sid

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Lloyd , no personal attack meant but there is a world of a difference between a whore and a girlfriend and the difference is so huge that most women would think it an insult to be percieved in this way . As for why whores do the job they do., 99.99% do it for the $$ not the pleasure, not the sex and not to meet personable and intelligent men like yourself, Lloyd. In the fsu as well as most european countries as soon as you hook up with a hooker you are usually also coming into contact with her associates and unwittingly fueling and feeding the exploitation of women from the fsu who have been forced into prostitution- it is not a victimless behaviour and the men who consort with prostitutes are victims too - self deluded, passionless , unfeeling , lacking in concience , hateful , vengeful and godless . Lloyd , in truth the very worst of human characteristics.

Rattle

Posted by: James Riske

I tend to agree with Lloyd. There's nothing wrong with hooking up with a prostitute if you're single and wearing protection and in a safe environment.

I want to hear more of the story because they talked about how they didn't hit it off and weren't compatable but then she acted jealous when the hookers showed up and shook her finger at him to stay on the bed and not move! Sounds like she's playing both sides of the fence here or just playing a female game with him. She should have asked him if he wanted her to leave for awhile so he could enjoy the company of one of the willing ladies and not chased them away, at least. In my mind, her behavior really sends up warning flags that she's overly jealous, controlling, and possesive.

Or maybe, as the story progresses, she really did have feelings for him.

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

jr, I would not travel 3000 miles to pay for sex and any man who does this is A) controlled by his small head B )is technichally and to all intents and purposes insane and C) Deserves to return home to his country with at least a rash or with enough worries about his health to concentrate his thoughts for the forseeable future.

Oh and just for the record it is men who pay for sex whilst in the fsu who create the impression that all men who travel to the fsu are sex tourists- and men who tell others its OK are dangerous because they are encouraging criminality and the consequences of criminality as well as fueling the impression amongst the citizens of the fsu that western european and american men are willing to pay for sex or are only looking for sex.
If a single man wants to pay for sex with prostitutes thats his business but in regard to this thread it has nothing whatsovever to do with this thread .

Rattle

Posted by: James Riske

Heck I wouldn't travel 3,000 miles to pay to have sex with a woman either! Who would? ( I heard that Elvis once took his Lear Jet to get a burger someplace, hee he)

But if you find yourself stuck there, why not? You yourself said that if a single man wants to pay for sex it's his business, so what's the problem? Heck, if I was stuck there and single and the woman and I didn't hit it off, I'd say, "Come on in!" it's got to better than watching Sex in the City dubbed in Russian.

Invite a couple of them in, order out for room service, a nice steak, some vodka.......make a night of it. It's all part of life. Have fun!

James

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Quote:

But if you find yourself stuck there, why not?

jr, this is just the type of behaviour which I am against . I have been to the fsu 5 times and on each occassion I was viewed with suspicion and on each occasion I encountered people who assumed I was a sex tourist. This has come about because of the behavour of a whole generation of foreigners who have visited the fsu , lived like kings for a month and then left " thier woman " in the lurch .

I will never change my view that a man who pays for sex deserves at least a good kicking . jr as you are clearly a well educated and articulate individual your advice is even more dangerous because it is coming from a man who clearly has cultured values .But, jr if you advocate this behavour you are also agreeing to the criminality which goes hand in hand with this and you are also adviocating the abuse of women and lack of respect towards women . Jr IMHO , the fsu does not need men like this in its territrories - the fsu needs many things but this it does not need. The view that women in the fsu can be bought or sold is abhorrent to me and many like mined people across the world. I am sorry , jr you
are in a minority on this one - lack of respect for women is wrong and lack of respect for the laws of the country is wrong too.

Rattle

Posted by: James Riske

Actually, I'm coming at it from a different angle. I feel that your way of thinking is wrong. I think it's wrong for the government to tell a woman (or a male prostitute) what she can do with her body. You are imposing your morality onto other people and telling them what they can or can not do. If two consenting adults get together and the woman wants to charge the man for her company or sex, that should not be a crime. That's their business.

You are welcome to look down on it and judge others for doing this, that's your opinion and I respect that. But I happen to have a different opinion.

Heaping all the negativities onto that by saying that many of the women are forced into it, that it brings criminal elements into the area or that they profit from it, it encourages the spread of disease, etc. is all just a smoke screen as I could say that about many other things: gambling, drug dealing, swing clubs, gay bath houses, etc. Or that pair of jeans you're wearing made by children in Taiwan.

I don't believe American men are thought of as sexual tourists in Russia any more than they are when they visit Thailand, or when Japanese visit Los Angeles or Las Vegas, or Arabs to Asia or Australia, or whites to Jamaca. When people travel, there is an element in every culture and race who wants to have a little sex with the locals. It's natural and common. People want something different and are more open to having fun when they are on vacation. I live in L.A. and I see the Japanese tourists men going after the white prostitutes all the time. My point is that it seems to happen naturally everywhere and I doubt that it's more prevalent in Russia by visiting Americans any more than it is anywhere else.

It's fine that you would personally not engage in such an activity but I like to have fun and I believe that people are responsible enough to make their own decisions, especially about their own sexuality and body.

Posted by: ConnerVT

It is interesting that you all have speculations and opinions on the subject. What would be more interesting is to hear the rest of Charle's story...

Posted by: Pin Boy

Ditto!

Posted by: Charles

Hello everybody!
Long time no see!
I apologize for my absence. I have been working on my Ph.D.
I had no time to be active in the forum. I am sorry my story had no conclusion.
First, I would like to mention that I am a little dazed that my narrative initiated a discussion about prostitution and sex tourism. That part of my story was just an aside.

There are no winners when a man pays for sex. Men are financing a plethora of unseen criminal activities when they pay for sex. There is nothing wrong with sex between two consenting adults, but you are paying her bosses and handlers. Through them, you finance the child sex trade, drug trafficking, extortion rings, and all kinds of underworld activity, especially in Russia. We all know the people. Underworld types make no effort to conceal their presence in Russia. They flaunt their status at the top of the food chain.

Also, any prostitute that has been working for more than a few days has been exposed to STD’s and why risk that. I saw the businessmen from around the world in Moscow hotels. These are not people with whom you would want to share a sex partner

Posted by: Charles

My visit to Russia was progressing nicely after the first week in Moscow.
We took the train from Moscow to Volgograd overnight on Friday. The train is almost exactly like the train in “From Russia with Love” and that is just what I wanted, but no one was trying to kill me. We ate sandwiches and drank tea and watched the rolling Russian countryside. The train stopped twice at small hamlets. We went outside to walk and buy bottles of water from local vendors. It was a very exotic and satisfying experience.

We arrived in Volgograd on Sunday morning and took the taxi to her apartment she shares with her parents. The apartment was large. There were three bedrooms and a large living room and a nice kitchen. My girlfriend’s family has a good life. All the furniture, appliances, and electronics are new. It is a very nice place to live.

Her parents came home from church and they were very nice. Her father was very friendly and happy to have a second man in his home. Her mother was very sweet. She thought I looked better than my photos. The entire time I spent in Volgograd (two weeks), I had stomach and digestive problems. I ate very little. The food was good and her mother was a consummate hostess. I felt welcomed and comfortable.

I was a bit apprehensive about the sleeping arrangements. There was an extra bedroom, but I slept with my girlfriend. She told me it was nothing to worry about. Her parents never let me know they had a problem with this arrangement.

That evening I gave the gifts I had brought to her parents. I was very jealous of the tools I gave to her father. His tools are now better than my own. He was very happy to have tools made in the USA. Her mother seemed to like her robe. It was good.

The next day we went to the center of the city by transit van. I have to say Volgograd had a very good transit system. It was simple enough to learn that I could travel alone after a few days. We shopped and went to the war memorials for the Battle of Stalingrad. I was very interested and owe her friend Natasha a debt of gratitude for being an exemplary guide to the historical parts of the city. All of my girlfriend’s friends that I met speak beautiful English. Her friend Natasha invited me to speak at the University English Club that Friday evening about life in America. I spoke and answered questions for three hours at the university. I had to speak slowly and deliberately because of my southern accent.

On Tuesday, we went to the immigration office to register my passport. After standing in line for two hours, they told me I could only be registered at a hotel. I went to the main hotel in the city. They told me I could only be registered at the immigration office. I love bureaucracy!

On Tuesday evening, I met my girlfriend’s extended family. The very close cousin ( always referred to as the sister) and her husband became our companions for evenings in the city for the next two weeks. Each of her family members I met welcomed me and made me feel like an honored guest. I always arrived bearing gifts of wine and chocolate, as instructed on this website. My protocol was always appreciated. Every household had cherries from their cottages outside the city. I ate a lot of cherries everyday, but not as many as any of my new Russian friends. They always had a large handful of cherries during a meal.

I did meet her girlfriend that married a man from Washington state. She was visiting her mother alone. She told me she does not want her husband to come to Russia. He is 56 and she is 36. She laughed because I ate very little. She said she no longer likes Russian food after living in the U.S. for four years. She took us to a very nice pizza restaurant that made a very respectable Chicago-style pizza.

I am going to abbreviate the details of my two weeks in Volgograd. The city is beautiful and a very good place to spend some time. The Volga River is gorgeous and the river cruises are very pleasant. After two weeks, I knew the center of the city like the back of my hand. We shopped and walked around each day, and celebrated and enjoyed the city each night.

Now, here are the relationship highlights.
First, I have an innate fear of unleashing my Mojo when a girl’s parents are only about twenty feet away. It has carried over from high school, I guess. But I got over it. My girlfriend did not seem to think this was an unusual situation. Maybe fathers in Russia are not as scary as they can be in America when you are with their little girl?

We were very carefree and enjoying our times together. We were together, but not exactly on a deep and long-lasting level. Our personalities are not quite compatible. I am easy going and relaxed. She is tightly wound and difficult. When we were speaking on the phone and email, she said she had “bad character”. She meant she wanted things her way all the time. Her parents give in to her in all things. She likes that. I would seek compromises about where we would go or what we would do together. She liked to dictate what we would do and when. I like more give and take. She wants to wear the pants in a relationship. I insist on having at least one leg.

It was just as hot in Volgograd in July as it is in Tennessee. That means it was scorching. I paid for us to spend one night in a nice hotel together three days before I came home. I was looking forward to spending a night with an air conditioner, and my girlfriend knew it. Her cousin was envious of the one night of air conditioning. When we settled into the room, my girlfriend was not happy about air conditioning. She said it would make her sick with a cold before she returned to work five days later. I know it is not normal for her, so I said I would cool the room with the air conditioner for fifteen minutes and then we would open the windows for the rest of the night. She told me if I turned the air conditioner on for one minute, she would take a taxi to her apartment and leave me there alone to enjoy my air conditioning in an empty bed. Well, I do not like ultimatums, especially one that is not reasonable and bordering on irrational. I think the air conditioner was just an excuse for her to be controlling. I realized then life with this woman would be filled with ultimatums and semi-irrational arguments and the expectation that my feelings carry little weight in our relationship. At that precise moment, my heart went absolutely cold toward this woman and our relationship. I knew it would never be healthy for me to be more than friends with her. I told her the air conditioner would not make the room cold in fifteen minutes. I was going to use it for fifteen minutes and then open the windows. She took the cover from the bed and marched to lie down on the sofa in the sitting room. (Aside: the Hotel Volgograd is very nice and only $75 per night with air conditioning and a full size bed and sitting room and nice old world furniture. The best bargain in lodging I found in Russia.) I turned the air conditioner off when I said I would and opened the windows to allow the hot air back into the room. After two hours of lying in the dark shaking my head, confused and frustrated (and really hot), she walked into the bedroom. She said she could not believe I ruined our romantic evening by refusing to back down. It was very long night. I cannot sleep when I am angry.

Her parents went to their cottage outside the city and we had her flat to ourselves during the last two days of my visit. These days and nights were a lot of fun, exciting and memorable, but things would never be the same between us.

She and I took a taxi to the airport and she became very emotional while we waited for my departure. I felt I was leaving a dream behind in Russia. But that is real life. We will not see each other again. I wish her health and happiness.

Posted by: Charles

My first mistake was I stayed in Russia too long. I was there 23 days. That was about two weeks too long. The length of my stay was inviting disaster. I see that now.

Be ready for surprises when you meet for the first time. By that, I mean be ready to be disappointed and your worst nightmares come true. That is a always a possibilty. But also be ready to be pleasantly surprised by anything. Be ready for both success and failure.

Do not underestimate the influence of Russian culture and mindframes in your relationship. You are innoculated against it until you are in her city and country. They are a distinct breed of woman. If you have been in relationships with women, a lot of things will seem very normal compared to local women, but there are times when superstition and funny cultural left turns will take you off-guard. Many times these cultural differences are quite wonderful and welcome. Sometimes, you will wonder what planet you are on.

I feel very fortunate I met a Russian woman with good intentions and sincerity. Things did not work out for us, but I know she is a good person. She always insisted we spend her money as well as mine. Money was never a point of contention between us when we were together, I was blessed with the peace of mind that she was not scamming me in any way. If you ever have doubts about intentions, the situation is probably not a good one.

Anybody that has questions, feel free to ask me here in this thread.

Ciao

Posted by: Pin Boy

charles, this is one of the best posts i have ever read on this site...you seemed to have a once in a lifetime experience that you were rational enough to realize could not last a lifetime...it is very rare for someone to be in the situation you were in and to be very rational and as objective as possible in your thoughts and actions...i am sorry to hear that part of your trip was disappointing but at the same time had great charm and made tender and unforgettable memories from a cultural and personal perspective...

my experience was similar in some ways...bittersweet i guess would be the best way to describe it...sometimes it seems so near that i can taste it and still long for the experience more than anything in my life and at other times it seems like it happened to someone else...

thanks for posting what you and many others have been fortunate enough (or unfortunate enough) to have witnessed and lived...my best to you

pin boy

Posted by: Charles

Thanks Pin Boy.
It is amazing how the word bittersweet contains a lifetime of meaning. I read the word in your post and I felt like my life flashed before my eyes.
I treasure my time in Russia and would love to return.
Everyone I met was extremely special and worth remembering. There was a nobility and depth to every person.
Going to Russia changed my life in a thousand ways. I see the world and myself differently now. It has changed my politics and philosophy of life. I appreciate our way of life here in the West more than ever.
Russia is still very bright and vivid in my memory. I go back there many times each day in my daydreams, and my heart aches for the new friends that I cannot see again.

It is good advice to everyone who has not been to Russia (or FSU country) yet: Be prepared for your life to change, no matter what happens there.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by Charles
My first mistake was I stayed in Russia too long. I was there 23 days. That was about two weeks too long. The length of my stay was inviting disaster. I see that now.

Charles,
I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to write your experiences out, I know how much effort goes into a report like this (I wrote several in my time); But the line I quoted sticks out after reading everything. I would disagree that you stayed too long. There is a TON of pent up emotion and expectation that builds up on both sides before the first meeting. On some people it has a positive effect and others, a negative effect. I would guess that it took the two of you most of the first week just to get to "normal". I have always maintained that if it is at all possible, you should stay long enough to "get on each other's nerves". Only after you have been through an argument can you truly be sure as to whether you're compatable or not

. Although you did not get the answer you were hoping for (before the trip), you were able to decide without reservation, that this is not the woman for you. You can move forward without any doubts (or "what if-s") and there is a great deal of value in that too.

Thanks for sharing...........

Posted by: AngryFisherman

Welcome back Charles, hope everything is going well on the Ph.D.

Your posts in this thread have been very interesting, and as the others have stated I am impressed as well about your candor and ability to think clearly during your stay in Russia. I can certainly agree that a visit to Russia can be revarding in so many ways, but you have to keep your focus. And that is exactly what you have done. My first trip was kind of a reverse compared to yours. I spent the days with my lady, but we lived separately. I thought it was a bit strange then, but now I can see it was a good thing. It allowed us to progress at a pace which was natural for us. Getting to know your future partner is key, and as someone else wrote on this forum spending as much time together as possible before one makes the big move is the best thing you can do. Of course not everyone has this opportunity ...

You seem like a guy with his heart in the right place, Charles, and I really wish you the best of luck for the future!

Cheers,
FisherMan

Posted by: Skooter

Charles

Your post was great, very interesting.

I'm surprised your dispute over the aircon caused you such mistrust if her disposition, I realise we are only seeing small part of the big picture.

But I believe part of it is their establishing teritorial rights, ie you are in ' her ' country, reason I say this is an example I have with my fiance.

When we were in her country I wanted to make some food , pasta dish with some bacon, her response was ' I DON'T EAT PIG!! ' this came up a few times, she clearly informed me not to even think about using anything from this animal, as I do alot of cooking its reduced my choices a little but anyway.........

Last week we are at her sisters and she's eating some food, I became alarmed and said ' IT'S GOT BACON IN IT!!!!!' thinking she didn't know, her response, was ' yes I know, but now I am in UK I must be ready to try new things'

Well you could heve knocked me down with a feather, I was speechless, I realise its just part of her different cultural upbringing and partly to test me at times.

What I've found is not to push or tell her to do things, she is willing to change but not under my control or at my behest.

Now I know if I want her to try something different is not tell her before, just put it on the table, or leave stuff around the house and her curiosity takes over.

Just I find interesting my Fiances behavior has changed alot since she came here, in a more positive way than I expected.

Posted by: Charles

Hello,
I wrote 1/10th of what I could, but time and the readers interest level dictated I only hit the highlights. Of course the airconditioner incident was the culimination of dozens of other situations. Taken alone it would seem shallow and silly. But, it was the straw that broke the camel's back, so I went into detail.

Jim_FL,
My idea about staying too long is that when you plan for such a long stay, you are forgetting the very real possibility that things might not work out. That was the situation I was facing after two days, and I was staying twenty one more. If she had been a really cold-hearted person, she could have left me to fend for myself in Russia totally lost with no translator. She would not have done that, but many people are not so caring.

AngryFisherman,
I am very happy your visit was good. A natural pace for getting to know each other inperson is almost impossible to achieve in our situations.

Skooter,
The airconditioning incident was just the climax of a building situation. She was being irrational in order to exercise control over me and the situation. I would not have been bothered if she was reasonable. It was the main incident I wrote about, there were others I did not mention.
My girlfriend was the dominant member of her close and extended families. She tells everyone what to do, and for some reason, they all do it without question. She was trying to control me the same way. If I wanted to be totally dominated by a woman, I could have been happily married to several of my girlfriends in the past. I do not want to dominate a wife, either.
I need an intelligent and caring woman to with whom to have a partnership. Having someone I can rely on to consider my feelings and needs would be nice. My needs would always be an afterthought to my Russian girlfriend. I want a 50/50 relationship.

Posted by: povlhp

I will also thank you for the good story. And I agree that Russia is different in many ways. Some things are better, some are worse. They have the corruption and bureauchracy problems of most countries where living standards are not up to our level.

I have been there a few times, and will go visit a new GF for the first time end of March. Will stay 2 weeks (boils down to about 10-12 days), which I think is a good amount of time.

Finding the woman who is willing to be in a mutual 50-50 relationship is difficult, also here in Denmark. And I for sure would not be able to stand either the dominant woman, nor the one that is too weak and submissive. The dominant one would run screaming away, as I would just ignore her attempts at control, and the submissive one is the one I would leave.

Your report has been an inspiration, and I will return with a report after my trip.

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally posted by Charles :We had problems from the beginning (everyone take note, especially those who have not met their FSU loved one yet). It felt funny because we had a very satisfying connection until we met. She told me later she was upset because I did not look like my pictures. In my defense, the pictures I sent her were honest and recent. They were not even especially flattering. I am a big guy, 6 ft 2in and 240 lbs. She said she did not think I would be so much larger than her. She is 5 ft tall and 100 lbs.

Charles it is striking that things started this way when you met in person. Do you chalk it up to nervousness on her part? She's very assertive (no slam intended), was this her discomfort at not being in control?

Posted by: sidney

Charles, I realize it was a problem beyond the air conditioning but A/C can be a problem for many from the FSU. My wife is prone to cold sores if there is any wind on her face. Our first lengthy meeting was in Moscow in November. Not good. When she came here I couldn't open the car window and could only put minimum A/C on in the house and car. In her city A/C is rare, even her family didn't have a fan until we stayed there and I needed to sleep better and bought one. She has changed slowly these almost four years though. She complained that my father A/C in his car was broke and it was so hot. At the end of last summer the air in her car is getting to where it needs recharged or repaired. She is now using and enjoying this comfort. I'm not even sure if you can buy a car in America that doesn't have A/C. I enjoyed your post even though things didn't work out as we had hoped.
Sidney

Posted by: Charles

Hi everyone,

Quote:

Brad,
I do not know what the problem was at the very beginning of our meeting. I suspect nerves, but that is just speculation. We both looked exhausted and for good reason. She had been waiting at Sheremetyevo for several hours before we met. She arrived early and my plane was almost two hours late from New York, in addition to the time spent in line to stamp my visa. My girlfriend was the type of person that was easily upset and has a negative attitude while she is upset.

Quote:

Charles, I realize it was a problem beyond the air conditioning but A/C can be a problem for many from the FSU.

Sidney,
I am sorry to hear about this problem your wife has. I would have been sympathetic to my girlfriend if she had such a problem, or a reasonable need, but she was only trying to force me to conform to her point of view because she willed it. It was a pattern I saw many times each day. I would want to buy a bottle of water from a vendor during an afternoon walk. She would tell me if I care for her, I will not buy water now. I was consistently faced with these decisions and situations. Many times I would go along with her wishes for the sake of peace. A few times, I simply could not give into her demands.

povlhp,
I hope you have a really great visit in March. 10-12 days is a good amount of time to be together.
You are correct about the difficulty finding 50/50 relationships. I think that is true of all people in all places. The majority of people have either dominant or submissive personalities. There are not a lot of true compromisers in the world. I have had a lot of difficult times in my life. Most problems we encounter in life are really very small and insignificant and will be forgotten in a short length of time. People just need to keep perspective.

I have learned that most problems can be solved by talking and listening to each other. It takes willpower and commitment, from both people in a relationship, to maintain a healthy relationship. Do not forget to consider the point of view of your partner and how your decisions will affect her.

Posted by: chaika

It's pretty clear that she needed to be in control. That's why she paid for all those things. Just imagine if you had a girlfriend visit you from Saudi Arabia. She'd have a monthly salary ten times yours, say $20,000 a month (... I know), and yet you would be insisting on paying for everything. Is that weird or am I missing something?

Posted by: Pin Boy

welcome...i think you're missing something...what is the point of your post?...charles had a very profound and life altering experience...be respectful please

pin boy

Posted by: BradIL

I agree with Pin Boy. I don't understand what the point of your post is chaika. Control, money... what?

Posted by: Charles

Quote:

It's pretty clear that she needed to be in control. That's why she paid for all those things. Just imagine if you had a girlfriend visit you from Saudi Arabia. She'd have a monthly salary ten times yours, say $20,000 a month (... I know), and yet you would be insisting on paying for everything. Is that weird or am I missing something?

Chaika,
I think I understand what you are saying. I would be insisting on paying for things, despite the salary difference, if I had a rich girlfriend. I respected her need to contribute to our shared experience together.

The only reason we had problems was because she wanted to lead me around by the nose at all times.

Posted by: ASoulmate4U

one of the best posts i have read on this forum so far.

The control issue hit home with me right away, reminded me of my x-wife and the things she would do.

Were you only coisponding with one woman from the FSU ? And will you concider meeting another lady from there ?

Posted by: Charles

Hello ASoulmate4U,

Quote:

Were you only coisponding with one woman from the FSU ?

I wrote letters to three women. One woman I stopped writing the first week, because I could see she was a scammer. My suspicions were confirmed when her photo appeared later on the blacklist under a different name. I decided my girlfriend and I had good chemistry, so I wrote only to her by the end of the first month. We wrote lengthy emails once or twice every day for eight months. We also spoke on the telephone six hours each week. We were both excited and optimisitic due to our letters and conversations.

Quote:

And will you concider meeting another lady from there ?

That is an interesting question.
I am not planning to write to any women from a FSU country at this time. This experience has hurt as much as any relationship going down the drain. I am just going to live my life for a while and see what happens.
Despite the problems I had, There were many things I liked about the attitudes of Russian women that I saw while a guest in their country and culture. I like that Russian women are very possessive of the man in their life. All Russian men around me received lavish attention from their women, including me. My girlfriend took very good care of me during my visit. She cared for me like I could be lost or hurt at any time. She was very worried about my health and safety. Her close attention was very tender and a breath of fresh air for me. I liked it.

The attentions of the Russian couples I was with reminded me of American relationships when we are sixteen. They are very possessive and full of infautation. It was a little like going into a time machine and dating in high school again. That was nice.

Posted by: Jutman

Quote:

I am not planning to write to any women from a FSU country at this time. This experience has hurt as much as any relationship going down the drain. I am just going to live my life for a while and see what happens.

I know that feeling. My first was a scammer, and I did'nt realise it before it was to late. Stangely enough this made me search for information/help and found places like RMP.
My wife is the 4th (and yes, she know it), and number and 2 and 3 also did hurt me, even nothing really came from it.
Number 2, has just meet a Russian man and after 2 months I understood she was writing to me, becase it was 1st contact with somebody outside Russia. But she was honest and told me so.
Number 3 never answered back. And Between each I needed some time to put it all behind me.

And honestly i am not sure I would have written my wife, if my account at the agency was clean, but I had some money at it, so I decided to use the money and give it one more try.
And today I so H.A.P.P.Y. I did.

I hope the same will happen to you Charles. Good luck in the future. You never know when Miss Fortuna hits you.