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Russian Woman,,,coming to America,,they should all !
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Posted by: estguy

Ok,,lets do a wake up call !

Should Russian Woman be interested in coming to America?
,,if they are not, they are probably either ignorant, full of pride and stuborness, or just not much of a catch !

1.) a very corrupt Goevernment
2.) one of the worse Human rights in the world
3.) Their is no comunity property, when the man leaves the marriage, so does the money

4.) No child support orders or enforcement
5.) little or no chance of economic upward mobility

Forget all the rhetoric from the MOB assoc. about how nice us American men are, family oriented, non drinkers,, nonsense,, look at the real issues about quality of life, and the decission becomes clearer.

If I lived in Russia I would tell my daughter to get out, find a half way decent man, and make a decent life for you and your offsprings ! Love, and language and culture wont pay for baby formula wont pay for the heating bills.

Ok,,I'm putin on my flame suit

Posted by: Eric-USA

I would say the following may be reasons:

National pride
Family
Friends
Culture
Familiarity and language

On the last two, remember money can't buy everything and some can reasonably provide for family.

Posted by: Jerico

estguy,

I am just wondering if you ever have been to Russia.
In Moscow I have never seen so many high dollar mercedes and jaguars. It is amazing as well as all the fur coats being worn and nice clothes.
Maybe they dont make as much money as us in the USA but it is not necessary to make lots of money to live comfortably in Russia in my opinion.
I have been there 3 times to different cities and it is the same in all the citys.
The women I met did not want to leave for financial reasons.
They simply wanted a nice guy.
Of course they know life would be better as far as owning items like cars but can you blame anybody for this. It is normal.
Jerry

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Estguy, I have been to the fsu 6 times and in the cities I visited - Kiev , Yalta , Dneprpetrovsk - the women were fashionably dressed in the best european style. In winter, fur coats were de riguer and I saw many BMW's, Mercedes, Audis in Kiev as well as the other cities I mentioned. The lifestyle of a woman in a big city like Kiev or for that matter Moscow , or St Petersburg ( assuming she has a good job ) can very nice indeed - these cities are now more expensive to live in than either Paris or London. 15 years ago, many people wanted to leave Moscow and they did in droves leaving behind thier apartments in central locations in the city . Today these same apartments are worth $300, 000 each( minimum) depending on the size. If you have never visited Moscow or St Pete's it would be interesting to do so . The women who advertise in the agencies are for the most part looking for a real relationship which will lead to a marriage based on mutual compatibility, trust , etc etc and Although there are gold diggers and youg women in thier early 20's looking for sugar daddies the vast majority are genuinely looking for Mr Right.
You are right that money does come into the equation at some stage ( eg the visa process ) and i d agree that without money whether my wife comes from England , America or Russia the chances are there will be more stress without money because life in europe is expensive and we all need money to live but money is not the central issue with the majority of the women who place thier names in a Marriage agency.

Rattle

Posted by: estguy

Women should want to come to America,,,for Human Rights Issues

Some how my post got confused with money,,more specifically

1) If a woman has your baby,,,she has the Right for you to support this child
2) If a woman marries you she has a Right to a fair division of the assets while she is maried to you

National Pride how can I be proud of a country that ignores an individuals God given rights (Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins)

Family at some point in time we leave our imediate family, to start our own,,and just as I pick the best schools, the best neighborhoods,,if I have the opportunity to move to a better country, where my children have a better chance for Human Rights, more freedom,, shouldn't I make this choice also?

Culture whats culture? the food we eat, the way we talk, the holidays we observe, our repetitive tasks handed down from generation? We all live in a Global Industrial Society, get used to it, if you yearn for language and culture, there certainly enough Russians, Russian Discos and families in America.

There are undoubably many very rich Russians,, this IS their Culture, for Centuries, the Rich Ruling class also the corrupt Mafia, who's standard of living far exceed even ours in America. But, I contend this is only about 10% of the population, and there is very little chance for upward mobility if you are born the common man. No amount of education, good looks, or nice personality is going to break you into the upper escelone of Society.

False contentment Its human nature to feel comfortable when everyone around you is in the same boat. Most of us really dont see our life as a full story that we are the authors of. We see barely beyond the next the next pay check, next new dress or fur coat. Unfortunately many of these "nice" Russian girls can not even imagine a quality of life better then they have been raised in.

Posted by: James Riske

"""""False contentment Its human nature to feel comfortable when everyone around you is in the same boat. Most of us really dont see our life as a full story that we are the authors of. We see barely beyond the next the next pay check, next new dress or fur coat. Unfortunately many of these "nice" Russian girls can not even imagine a quality of life better then they have been raised in."""""

I agree with you there. Growing beyond that mindset is the key to success.

Posted by: andrei

Quote:

Originally posted by estguy
Women should want to come to America,,,for Human Rights Issues

National Pride how can I be proud of a country that ignores an individuals God given rights (Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins)

Culture whats culture? the food we eat, the way we talk, the holidays we observe, our repetitive tasks handed down from generation? We all live in a Global Industrial Society, get used to it, if you yearn for language and culture, there certainly enough Russians, Russian Discos and families in America.

In Russian 'pride' as a feeling and 'pride' as a sin are 2 different words, so I cant take that one. I have National Pride because Im a patriot. In fact right now YOU are the one that's showing off his National Pride, with all that 'Go west' bullsh-t talk.

"Culture whats sulture" now thats what you could get beat up for. So we have no culture now, now thats fine!!!!

Global Industrial Society - what the hell is that now??? Russia and US are 2 different planets. There are NOT enough Russians in America. Culture shock is what a RW experiences the first time in your country. Everybody speaking English, everybody driving even if it's a 3-minute walk, everybody using miles and pounds instead of km and kg, a lot of people overweight, no Russian radio nor TV - I would be in a complete shock experiencing that. I'm telling you, a regular will only look for a foreign man if she's gone thru SERIOUS problems finding a nice man in her own country.

Posted by: Jerico

Hey Andrei,

Some of your facts about the USA are correct.
However , let me tell you.
Where I live near ( Sacramento , California. ) There is a huge population of Russians and Ukrainians.
There are 2 Russian radio stations and on cable TV there are Russian shows from time to time.
There are stores all over with Russian store front letters that cater to Russians and down the street from my home , there is a bank that opened up for Ukrainians.
Plus they have there own churches down the street and you cant go to any food place anymore without some Russian kid working the counter.
They are all over the country my friend, so they must stay for a good reason

Also I have noticed russians also prefer to drive instead of walking for 3 minutes.
My fiancee will have no problem meeting Russians here if she wants to. There everywhere !!

Jerry

Posted by: RomanticTX

Guys,

What the heck am I doing here? I drive an American company car 2004, but I certainly don�t drive an import (have my own car �but it�s a Jeep--). It seems that luxury cars and apartments, and designer clothes are the norm in Russia.

If I didn't know better, based on the picture you are portraying of Russia, I would want to live there!
Well, but If I were to hear the other extreme, I would be totally afraid of ever visiting or getting around people of the FSU.

Well, I believe the problem is to polarize the country. One extreme or the other!

There are rich people in Russia, some new money, some old money! There are opportunities to make money and to move up.
However, when you compare it to the opportunities available in the USA, they are considerably fewer!

It is what it is!

Chances of a better life here are higher! I just wish they didn�t have to marry to come to this wonderful country! I whish there were some other avenues for entrepreneur and motivated people of the entire world to come here (well, a little of background check for terrorism would also be recommended).

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel,

Lets get one thing right Russia is a beautiful Country and yes you have rich and poor and many Americans who have business interests there.

So the Russian lady makes mistake and gets pregnant, goverment will not keep her?

This is the way it should be and the family should keep her and make the father pay to.

Human rights don't talk about human rights England have the human rights act and what a problem this has caused, tax after tax after tax it can't carry on.

What is wrong with Russia there are beautiful men in Russia and don't just listern to what the Russian women has to say about how bad they are.

Why should a girl who has put no money into a country get a home and benifits because she has had a baby and now man has gone and why should someone come from a country to claim asylum and get handouts and home and benifits.

I tell you, you can have Mr Blair and we will find a knew leader for England who looks after the people who work for a living and don't forget America have many poor people to who are sick on the streets due to Mr Bush.

TAX TAX TAX Ni Ni Ni this is what London is about so we can help people who claim benifits 8 million people who can work but wont work.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: RomanticTX

Neil,

In my opinion, Mr Blair is an excellent leader. So, I would love to import him to the USA.

As for the hated taxes (believe me I have taxes!!!) I agree with you! Unfortunately, if we change presidents, our taxes WILL INCREASE! Kerry has said it over and over! For us who want a smaller government and less taxes, Bush is the best option.

Have you been to the USA? Where do you get the ideo of our poor people in the streets? Of course we have homeless people, but 95% of them have mental illness (I work with them in Charity) and a change in government would not cure them.

Of course, in Politics and religion it is virtually impossible to be in agreement, so I don't expect you to agree with me (just as I don't with you).

Best Regards
RomanticTx

Posted by: wavetossed

There must be a few Russians in the USA if they can maintain a KVN league with 13 teams...

http://www.kabh.org/league.html

Posted by: Jim_FL

estguy,
There is one and only one thing that makes life in America better...........stability.

There are many things that make the two countries different, but for every bad thing you can dig up in Russia, I can show you something equal or worse right here in the US of A.

"Land of the free" is bulls

t, we are one of the least free of the civilized societies
"Human rights" is bulls

t, for every good guy trying to do the right thing and getting screwed by the courts, there are ten walking away scott free
"corrupt gov't" is bulls

t, just because we can't get things done for a $20 bill tied around the neck of a vodka bottle doesn't mean our gov't is not corrupt
"upward mobility" is limited to those starting in the middle of the ladder for the vast majority of cases in USA (talk to anyone on welfare or a migrant farm worker about "upward mobility"

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Wow! I think you discovered a new argumentative technique! Now let me make sure I have it down correctly. I can see that your basic theme is to make an assertion, then support it either by restating the original assertion in a slightly different way, or else optionally by making another assertion! Thus, you completely eliminate all need for evidence or logical process! Fantastic!!

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by FlashingEyes
Thus, you completely eliminate all need for evidence or logical process! Fantastic!!

Perhaps I should refrain from posting when arriving home after a long aggrivating day.

I just get very tired of seeing people in this pursuit for all the wrong reasons and with skewd justifications. I have a russian wife, and I can tell you for sure, she didn't come here because she thought this country had a better human rights track record, or because she wanted to be sure she could get "half my stuff" in event of divorce.

Most of the women looking abroad for a husband, do NOT do so to be "rescued" from a life of despair. If you don't believe it, ask the women who post here and on other boards. Life in Amercia seems just as screwed up and backward to them, as life in Russia seems to guys who have not spent much time there. Life here seems better to us because we have had a lifetime to discover and understand how our system works, for some just arriving and starting a new life in the states, it is INCREDIBLY frustrating. While there are a number of things that are much better here, there are also a number of things that are much better in Russia (education and public transportation to name two).

One of the really sad things about being married to an immigrant wife is dicovering just how little our government really cares about its citizens and residents. Perhaps after you go through the USCIS "wringer" for 2 or 3 years you'll understand why some of us are not nearly as enthusiastic about all the "flag waving" as guys just getting started. I don't want to get into a big political debate but I am ashamed and appauled by the way my government has treated my wife, and having the benefit of understanding the Russian perspective of the "Chechin problem", I am ashamed and appauled by my government's foriegn policy.

Posted by: BradIL

Its necessary to keep economics at the forefront in understanding why RW want to leave the FSU/CIS. The statistics tell the story.

The most recent data shows the U-S generates goods and services of $11.64 trillion by more than 146 million workers, that benefits an estimated 290.5 million citizens. That works out to more than $37,600 per capita.

In Russia, as of last year, goods and services generate an estimated $1.35 trillion that benefits more than 144.5 million citizens. That works out to more than $9,300 per capita.

Americans have 4 times the purchasing power of Russians, -or- Russians have a purchasing power of 24.7 cents compared to the dollar spent by an American.

Whether your a capitalist or not, free markets in the U-S use harsh efficiency to generate purchasing power. Restricted markets don't.

I have no doubt that many Russians work as hard, are as smart, and are as diligent as workers in the U-S. But when the economy works against you, when your future seems bleak because your country has trouble moving ahead, when you see others moving ahead while you struggle to just to keep what you have, when a family becomes something of an economic luxury, its apparent to me why many see they have no choice but to leave.

The stats tell me a vivid story, and we haven't compared the variety of goods and services available to U-S/Russian citizens.

Regarding human rights, among the largest nations in the world, U-S citizens have the greatest degree of liberty. Our federal constitution works, especially when we demand that our public servants respect it.

However, its the economics of the situation that's driving all of this, and from what I've been reading in this forum economics is behind the cause of too much social difficulty across the FSU/CIS.

---Brad///

Posted by: Jim_FL

Here is a reply to a similar question posed in another place on the net to illustrate my points above. This is from a man married to a Ukrainian woman living in the suburbs of Chicago:

Quote:

-XXnameXX-
my wife hated EVERYTHING
much easier to list what she liked-

she liked the amount and variety of fruits and vegetables in the
grocery store!!
thats it, one thing!
(and you will think i am joking is the sad part)

what she hated?
you want specifics?

The food
the roads
The traffic
the fact noone dresses well
The clothing stores
The fact noone walks
the resturants
the spread out suburbs
the stupid people
my ONE cat. (and yes she had 4 cats at home in the house)
the stupid husband
the language
the doctors
the college
my aquarium and the fish ( 150 gal)
my house ( 2 years old)
my lack of decor( i left it plain so she could choose it,foolish man i was )
the speed limits ..

-/snip/-

not everyone LIKES it here

i like it here(chicago),
but honestly i haved lived places, and countries ,
i enjoyed more!

I like XX and lived there many years.
I am sure she will like it,, but be prepared for her to hate many things initially and even some long term.
because it wont be "normal" to her.

Shes lived her whole life in another culture,

there is no way she will like everything, or possibly anything ,
about a new one

there is no way to know what specific things will drive her batty.

and you are looking for something substantial, something solid ,that truely isnt as good. something you can amend or fix?
some REASONABLE excuse not to like XX area?

its not like that!
it wont be reasonable to YOU,
it will be something that is completely normal for you-

like the color of the average homes roof top.

it just wont be "right"
it isnt like that in Ukraine!

and it WILL bother her.

get used to the idea, as i truely doubt anyone can give you anything specific or reasonable

or anything that you can do anything about!
except "listen"

FWIW- my wife likes it here now,but still would prefer to live in Ukraine.

Hey your girl may LOVE it here.
but your thought that they *surely* cant have higher expectations than typical everyday life in XX will likely be put to the test bro!
because to her, nothing, not one thing, will be "normal"

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel,

First i would like to say i have been to America 4 times and i liked very much, first time California, second Miami, third Las Vegas, fourth Las Vegas.

I understand that America is the best country in the world and the Russian Lady wants to go there because she is so sick of her country.

Wrong they have nice life in there country and would love to meet a Russian man who is kind and can surport his family but there country is not strong and yes it could collapses again and this is why they look abroad.

I feel many men from this site feel the Russian Lady is weak and needs a mans help, please they are strong and can look after themselves very well.

America has many poor people to and yes Mr Bush is not doing enough and this is not just my views, Mr Bush senior was just the same, how can a President allow old people to go hungry.

My mum traveled on tour from Atlanta right down to Biloxi and yes there were people on the streets but not through illnes but because if you lose your job, there is know money on the table from daddy goverment and yes people down areas of the southern state live in small homes like a shed in my back garden.

My mum was shocked that people still have the confederate flag flying in there garden, so before people say how good there country is please think

I feel Romantic is right we all have our own views and politics can cause fights, Tony Blair might be good on the World front but at home he is not, his wife is a lawyer but defends the humen rights act to people who hurt other people and abuse children, this is what my Goverment is about so please the humen rights stinks and if i had millions in the bank or found good job which payed well in Russia i would live in Russia tomorow and turn my back on England.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: RomanticTX

Neil,

It would be foolish of me to discuss about USA and politics with you since you clearly do not know or understand them.
You hate Taxes, buut at the same time want the goernment to take care of all the issues around? You have to chose! those are mutually exclusive!

Just for the record, if you lose your job in the USA, you can apply for unemployment assistance, and yes Mr government will take care of you.

Also, I can assure you the vast majority of the people on the streets are not there just because of lack of jobs. The #1 and #2 reasons are Drug addiction and Mental illness. (Sometimes they go hand in hand as the drugs can permanently cause �drug induced psychosis and mood issues�). As for the homeless people, I have worked with them (through charity), I know the problem first hand, I did not drive by and made my own conclusions about their whereabouts.

About the flags, it is all about freedom. Let people do and say things that you don�t agree with!

Brad point makes a lot of sense! I think that is the prime example of a good contribution. As you can see, his argument is supported with facts, not just opinions.

RomanticTx

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel,

This is a different view to my mum got, Mick the driver was black and a very kind man and the tour guide would not lie, so my heart tells me this person is right in what they say.

About the flag this is not freedom but Racist and yes i talk about many things but why should a person get benefits who does not work.

The benefit system was set up to help the man or women back to work not to give up work and claim benefits because its more money.

You say i know nothing about your country well it makes us equal.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: RomanticTX

Sorry Neil,

I didn't know that "Mick the driver� had spoken! You are right tour guides can�t lie! Otherwise, we could impeach them and it could result on being removed from their position!

Such a scholastic figure told your mother, who then told you, who then told us, that the homeless problem in USA is due to Bush�s policies.
It means that 3 years ago (at the time of Clinton�s administration) all those, now-homeless-people lived the American dream. But, then what happened? Damn Bush came along and they lost their jobs, homes, and so on!

Now that you explained your sources, it all makes sense!

I hate racism (I am Hispanic for that manner), but one thing you have to understand is that freedom of speech (and the flag is a form of it), is not freedom if you regulate it! With freedom both good things and bad things come along! So you have to take the bad with the good.

In the US we have decided to live that life, the life of freedom of speech. Is that perfect? NO. But that is the way we have decided to regulate our lives.

Yes we are equal, but not the same!

Posted by: neil277

Hello Romantic,

The flag is a symbol in America this is your laws not English laws, my country is multi cultural, many cultures will break away but will they marry outside there culture?

I feel Mr Bush will be realected and i hope not by the courts this time, why will Mr Bush be realected because the women like him even my mum says he is so handsom this is why he will get back in.

95% of English papers dislike Mr Bush i feel Bush junior is the most dangerous president America has ever had my views are changing very much on this guy.

My mums views have not changed and there is never no smoke without fire there are many poor people in America, and why does the Russian women leaver her country because she loves her man and don't forget the men who have married a Russian women only to find after 3 years they are in divorce.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: Jim_FL

For the sake of this argument I won't dispute Brads "facts" as they sound reasonably acurate although he lists no source for his "most recent data". People like to quote statistics a lot (divorce rate is a favorite) but I'm not sure how many folks understand that a statistician is a little like a photographer. They can compose a snapshot to show just about anything they want, depending on their inclusions and/or exclusions.

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
Our federal constitution works, especially when we demand that our public servants respect it.

This is a nice warm fuzzy thought, but when you have entire federal departments that are effectively answerable to nobody, the practice becomes a different story. Yes I will concede these departments are answerable to congress, and congress to its constituancy. So how bad does a situation have to get before congress will actually move forward in such a manner as to effect POSITIVE change?

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL

However, its the economics of the situation that's driving all of this, and from what I've been reading in this forum economics is behind the cause of too much social difficulty across the FSU/CIS.

---Brad///

This goes back to my original post. The one thing the USA has going for it is economic stability, and this is the one thing I've been told, by russian women, is most coveted. (their names can be provided on request for verification

) Once there is some measure of economic stability in the FSU, there will likely be a gradual decline in women looking abroad for a husband.

IMHO guys like estguy who are strapping on the shining armor and climbing onto the white steed are in for a big letdown. FWIW, my wife's comment upon discussion of this thread last evening, was:

Quote:

They understand nothing!

Actually it was a bit more involved, but I can't post the other parts because they violate the rules of the forum

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Despite the USA being THE super power , economics alone do not make happy people . In my country , England , we have good economics but we have a housing crisis caused by banks , real estate agents and the govermment encouraging the escalating price of a home . We have good roads but there are so may cars on these roads at peak traffick times that cars barely crawl along even outside London . We have free speech but little real democratic representation - at the moment our Prime Minister is banning Fox Hunting - but this is an activity which very few practice so why is this so high on the agenda ?? . We are encouraged by the tax system to work and if married we are encouraged to both work - high house prices mean that it is nearly impossible to buy a house on ones own . The trend in the UK is long hours of work and little rest compared to the rest of europe.We have oneof the highest teenage pregnancy rates in europe as well as the highest rate of abortions anywheren in europe.England also has high divorce rates - why ?? The economy is good surely life should be sweet , but in reality the race to acquire a new hom eor a new car and the pressure of job and home mean that many couples split up after 2 years . Britain is the most expensive place to live in- petrol ( gas ) costs $2 a litre and my countrymen are viewed as " soft touches" in terms of how we are overcharged compared to mainland europeans or for that matter yanks.
I think that anyone thinking of moving to another country should take off the rose tinted spectacles and think again .
On the subject of econmic super power my own opinion is that within the next decade China will surpass the USA in terms of economic growth and productivity - it is from the East and Asia that the greatest potential for economic growth is to be found. Europe is , unfortunately stagnating under a huge number of taxes and subsidies which stifle free market competition.

Rattle

Posted by: wavetossed

China will not surpass the USA for very long before it hits the limits to growth that are inherent in China. China has too many people, too little agricultural land, to few natural resources.

Now look at Russia. They have 140 million people which is enough to sustain an economy on its own. There are another 140 million people in their natural market, that is the neighbouring countries with a large Russian-speaking population. They have huge amounts of land, including agricultural land that is underutilized. I saw it. They also have vast untapped mineral resources including access to the last major petroleum deposits that can still sustain an increasing output for another generation or so. Russia today is like the USA at the end of the depression. They are poised for a boom like the 1950's in the USA and with Putin's steady hand at the helm driving steady but relatively stable improvements in the economy, this growth should kick off with the next decade.

Yet another reason to learn Russian and marry a Russian woman. When the rest of the world realizes that Russia is here to stay and that Russia will be the major world economic power of the 21st century, then there will be work opportunities that you can tap into.

Bet on China for the shorthaul and you will make lots of money. But for the longhaul, bet on Russia.

Posted by: neil277

First i love animals,

My cat has a good friend who is a fox and they play in the garden very much, do i agree no, but this is my cats life.

This is one of the only things i agree with under this goverment and i was caught up in this march, do i agree with what the fox hunters did, know i do not.

Why should a beautiful animal be pulled apart by a hounds, why not just shoot the fox.

Regards

Neil

Posted by: RomanticTX

Rattle,

Where did you get that China will suprass the US in economic growth and productivity? Are you talking on gross, or as a percentae of growth?

If it were possible (if I knew you personally), I would bet you a brand new automovile (at that time a model 2015) that it would not be that soon!

I agree that China has great opportunity, but the most positive predictions (before yours) of china becoming ONE of the economic powers (not THE #1) I have seen was in my last month's Time Magazine placing them in the 2050's.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by wavetossed
Now look at Russia. They have 140 million people which is enough to sustain an economy on its own. There are another 140 million people in their natural market, that is the neighbouring countries with a large Russian-speaking population. They have huge amounts of land, including agricultural land that is underutilized. I saw it. They also have vast untapped mineral resources including access to the last major petroleum deposits that can still sustain an increasing output for another generation or so.

Yes, they have the assets in raw materials. What they lack is the infrastructure to make it profitable, and the finances to build that infrastructure.

Farmland does little good if the food rots in the fields, or in the warehouse, before it's sold and consumed. You need machinery to tend to the fields, trucks to haul it, roads that can stand up to these trucks, factories to process the food.

Where does this come from, initially? Russia must buy it from outside, for it's not yet geared up to generate it internally. But, as stated earlier in this thread, it's economy does not have the buying power do do so.

But wait! Russia has oil! Unfortunately, although abundant, the crude is of a lesser quality than Middle Eastern (and off shore American). It cost more to refine into usable products. Because of this, it's not the first choice supplier for most big consumers of oil. Thus, it tends to sell for less. And with a higher cost to extract and ship, it's profit margin is much less. They could sell more, but now you are back to the infrastructure thing again.

So what am I trying to say? Things just aren't as black and white as we are trying to make them out to be...

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

I base my opinion on 2 factors . 1) In my job I meet many business people and many have said that they are moving thier production plants to China because employee costs are lower, taxes are lower but the same product can be made much cheaper than in either UK /USA orEurope. 2) Many of the imported items in discount shops in UK come from China as well as many of the higher end goods.
I am not an economist - I have no training in economics - I am just an ordinary man - but when business's start talking the talk and walking the walk about moving production to China it makes me think that the real giant of economic growth will be China and the Asian region.
Do not get me wrong , UK and USA as well as Europe have economic stability but the UK cannot compete on labour costs as against mainline China costs .

I hope that the trend for manufacturing to be located eastwward will be reversed but western europe has high taxes , high subsidies and high labour costs so unless there is a sudden change in econmic policy I do see this happening.

Posted by: RomanticTX

Rattle,
Unfortunately the fact that companies move to a place with cheaper labor does not mean that the country will be benefited.
In past decades, companies were moving to Mexico, Brazil and other Latin American countries due to the cheap labor. That did not bring any huge benefits to those countries.

Well, that carries several problems:

1. As soon that another country offers cheaper labor, those companies will move in a heartbeat. Actually there have been a lot of companies moving their manufacturing facilities from Mexico to Asia (specifically China) for that reason.
2. Those companies ONLY manufacture on those countries, but the profits are kept in the country of origin. The benefits are mostly having their huge masses employed. Most of the jobs are blue collar, with salaries just enough to survive. Which is better than nothing!
3. A REAL benefit to the country is when they export local products and there is a surplus in their commercial sheet (more export $ than import).

Some of the benefits are:

1. If China learns from the manufacturing companies and create their own companies capable to produce comparable products.
2. If China exports those products and reaps the real benefits.

China is known to be excellent to copy products. If you remember the Japanese model was similar. They began producing and exporting products (low quality), and then improved their quality to become a commercial potency now-a-days.

Posted by: wavetossed

You need to visit Russia and look around. The infrastructure is there. They have roads, railroads, trucks and trains. There are at least 7 domestic manufacturers of trucks and cars in Russia. The thing that strikes you when you visit Russia is that 90% of everything is made locally, not imported. The foundation is in place but due to economic problems it has not been maintained and updated, rather like what happened in the Great Depression in the USA.

Now China on the other hand, is being exploited like a colony. Outside money coming into China and building products for export. People making a fast buck. But this will not make China an economic power.

Russia is being forced to do most of the economic development on her own, so she will reap most of the benefits. Fortunately she has a big enough internal market to succeed at this and the nearby countries are not well-connected to the global markets so Russian products have real chance to compete in those countries.

If you're just looking for somewhere to invest your money, then Russia may not be for you. But if you're looking for somewhere to invest yourself, then Russia is the place. Don't just stop at marrying a Russian woman. Become fluent in Russian, get involved in Russian businesses, buy some property in Russia, etc.

Posted by: BradIL

JimFL---

My source for U-S GDP of more than $11.6 trillion is from the U-S Department of Commerce, check the Aug 2004 press release for the latest release of data. U-S population figures are estimates from the Census Bureau. Russia's data comes from spring news releases from several sites including the CIA, World Bank, and several economic organizations in the U-S and Europe.

The size of the U-S Labor Force comes from the U-S Department of Labor, the statistical reports that include the household survey, or the employment/unemployment/wage data, and others contain the update labor force totals. DOL's website has the numbers in its August 2004 news releases, and I believe they were updated with the round of reports that were shipped to Congress.

The populations and per capita income figures are generated by several sites also, and most use the purchasing power parity method to calcuate, that is, the dollar is the basis for the calculation.

Figuring the difference between the per capita incomes of the U-S and Russia is performed easily on a calculator.

Oh the constitution works very well, indeed, no warm-fuzzy thought intended. Any U-S citizen can file a lawsuit against any department in the executive branch. Its not all that difficult. And those departments do have reporting requirements to Congress. But remember it is CONGRESS that spends the money. CONGRESS determines what is funded, and often by their own statutes, exactly how various programs function.

The U-S House is up for election every 2 years, whenever voters get fed up they can make a change. One-third of the U-S Senate is up for election every 2 years, 33 members; voters have frequent chances to cast out bums, IF they will vote.

If you want to make America work you have to provoke-provoke-provoke. Liberty is great, but you constantly have to work to keep it, in any number of ways.

Posted by: BradIL

Neil277---

Well your mum was indeed introduced to the difficulty in race relations in America.

To begin, the confederate "bars & stars" flag that you frequently see is NOT the flag of the confederate government. It is an ARMY flag. And for the veterans of the confederate army, and their descendants- who are now scattered all over the U-S, it is a revered symbol of brave and faithful service by those who fought, whether you agree with their political views or not. Its also a symbol of rugged independence and individulism, a love for the southern states that are called 'Dixie", and for other reasons that are not related to the civil war.

The bars & stars have virtually nothing to do with minorities in contemporary America.

But if you believe in free speech, you have to tolerate the speech that offends you along with the speech you like. Hey this is the country where Nazis can march in Skokie, IL- a predominantly Jewish community- and require the government to protect your right to march! Do you believe in free speech or not?

And despite what 'pub' history (whether over a pint or in school) you received in England, slavery was only one issue in the American Civil War- perhaps the flash point of it- but other issues such as banking and states rights issues cast massive influence on the decision of the south to take on secession and war.

But your mum's experience/talk with Mick the driver is illuminating. It demonstrates the hypersensitivity of some minorities who have a difficult time finding their own sense of self-worth or identity in America 2004. By trying to link their difficulties with slavery, an institution banished by the 13th amendment to the U-S Constitution and the collapse of the Confederate Government/Army in 1865, from a generation that has never been enslaved is preposterous. Your mum did get a great look at some who are drenched in "victimization", who attribute some of the failures or shortcomings in their lives to their skin color as a distraction/excuse from the true reason for their problems, that is, their decisions and actions.

As other minorities seize America's dream/promise, advance economically, and become as vested as others, I suppose the struggles of the Civil War, or even the Civil Rights rallies of the 1960's, can become distant memories. No these minorities sweat how they are going to fund a university education for their kids, try to pay off the mortgage early, and look for ways to fatten their IRA's for a great retirement, while squirreling away a few extra bucks to take the whole family to Hawaii. The America so familiar to so many U-S citizens.

As to hunger? Puhleeeezee! It is always amazing how many people are smoking cigarettes from a pack of Marlboros that cost $3.75- getting free food, with pot bellies! Want to see the thin? Look for the crack cocaine, 'meth' addicts who take their food stamps and sell them for cash to buy drugs. Most of them are so whacked out by drugs they don't have much of an appetitie anyway. The assistance available to the poor to feed them, from government and private sources, is UNMATCHED in the U-S than anywhere else in the world. The poor in the U-S eat a wider variety of food than the poor anywhere else in the world; children can only go hungry in the U-S because someone, somewhere isn't doing their job. Its amazing to me how many kids I see eating junk food, who are low-income and presumably starving.

And finally--- your review of the 2000 presidential election in America that President Bush stole? The courts took the election away? Which one? It was Al Gore that started the recount business; it was Al Gore who wanted to count dented chad- scratched chad; it was Al Gore who said his voters were too stupid to know that the hole next to Pat Buchanan's name meant anyone who stuck the thingee in the hole would actually be voting for Pat; it was Al Gore who wanted to recount Florida over and over, county after county, until he could get the result he wanted.

Several news services combined resources to do their own recount, and their results are undisputable. In this recount President Bush GAINED votes in Florida, thus winning the electoral votes and the presidential election. To continue rehashing that election is becoming abusive.

So while Mum got an earful of what I am sure are Mick the driver's carefully formed opinions- please let her know that there are well-established FACTS that might actually contradict them and, God forbid, might also suggest that a different perspective of contemporary America might be in order.

---Brad///

Posted by: BradIL

Neil277--

I just reread your post and noticed your hunger criticism was directed at old folks.

So many here cannot take care of themselves, but just try and get them into a nursing home, or state care facility. GOOD LUCK!

Some value their independence so much they will sacrifice on the things they need to live a healthy life so they can live on their own, in their own way.

And above all else, you can live the way you want in the U-S as long as you don't harm others.

Posted by: ConnerVT

Quote:

Originally posted by wavetossed
You need to visit Russia and look around. The infrastructure is there. They have roads, railroads, trucks and trains. There are at least 7 domestic manufacturers of trucks and cars in Russia. The thing that strikes you when you visit Russia is that 90% of everything is made locally, not imported. The foundation is in place but due to economic problems it has not been maintained and updated, rather like what happened in the Great Depression in the USA.

I have been to Russia several times, with little of it in the isolated, protected arms a tourist usually is shielded by.Yes, there are roads, but most are in disrepair, as many of the other publicly owned facilities and utilities are.

Roads that can not be traveled are no use to industry. Vehicles that are in poor repair, and sit broken or are waiting needed parts are of little use. The railroads (built for their military counter role, much like the US Interstate system) are very reliable, but are a poor choice to get food from the fields (seasonal use) or for the transportation of oil.

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
JimFL---

My source for U-S GDP of more than $11.6 trillion is from the U-S Department of Commerce..............

As I stated: "I won't dispute Brads "facts" as they sound reasonably acurate....". The comment was made as a good natured jab at RomanticTX and FlashingEyes and was all in good fun. Your posts are well thought out, and I'm sure you do your homework.

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
Oh the constitution works very well, indeed, no warm-fuzzy thought intended. Any U-S citizen can file a lawsuit against any department in the executive branch. Its not all that difficult. And those departments do have reporting requirements to Congress. But remember it is CONGRESS that spends the money. CONGRESS determines what is funded, and often by their own statutes, exactly how various programs function.

My primary concern as it relates to this forum is the actions and attitudes of low and mid level employees of USCIS. By marrying a woman from another country I have invited this department into my life for the next 5 years minimum. If you plan to see this endevour through to fruition, you will too, so it should be of some concern to all of you residing in the US. Here are some of my "favorite" quotes from these employees over the last year:

When inquiring about specifics of how to fill out certain BCIS forms from an "Immigration Specialist shift supervisor" at the National Visa Center:

Quote:

I can't really answer that. Mabye you should talk to someone who knows more about these forms than BCIS

When inquiring about emergency Advance Parole after my wife's father had a massive heart attack from the BCIS Miami district supervisor:

Quote:

Ohh, I see from the hospital record you provided, he's not dead yet. If he ain't dead, it ain't an emergency

When expressing my frustration with the inability to speak with anyone who had any specific knowledge of our case to a BCIS National infiormation supervisor:

Quote:

You don't like it? Too bad, write your congressman!

In a written response from my congressman's immigration liason when inquiring about BCIS's "shelving" of my (along with 3000 others') application for over 8 months after informing me they planned to adjudicate within 90 days:

Quote:

It's not that I can't help you, I won't help you.

And yes, thanks in VERY small part to my vote, Alcee Hastings is no longer my state representitive. This does not insure in any way that the situation will get better, only that it MIGHT not stay the same.

Posted by: gino

Jim all a can say is wow!!!!!!!!!!!! but I'm not surprised. i almost get the feeling like we are treated as criminals buy going outside the country to marry. i guess the whole idea of a government official working for the people is out the window. like i believed that one. Gino

Posted by: Missouri

Jim.. I'm sure others have had small problems with agencies, and others have had wait times which were longer than they should be for applications, etc- But I have not read of major problems like you stated with USCIS, BCIS, and National Visa Center. Are others having these problems, and I have just heard about it. If there are others on this forum- who? If you give me their names, I will read their threads. Thanks -Scott

Posted by: ConnerVT

Well, there was our 5+ month long wait at Moscow, where after recieving our paperwork from NVC, our petition dropped off the face of the radar screen. Even though they typically schedule K-1 appointments in a week or so from receiving an application, we were told that they could not do anything until after 5 months had passed. (Until then, it isn't considered "late".) This was even with the help of Sen. Pat Leahy's Immigration Leasoin. (BTW, Sen Leahy happens to be the senior minority leader of the Senate sub-committe responsible for immigration and State issues.)

Just last week, we were treated like dirt by an employee of the Vermont Motor Vehicle Department, when my wife was attempting to apply for her learner's permit.

But I still can't help chuckling about Jim's experience:

Quote:

When inquiring about specifics of how to fill out certain BCIS forms from an "Immigration Specialist shift supervisor" at the National Visa Center:

Quote:

I can't really answer that. Mabye you should talk to someone who knows more about these forms than BCIS

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

He he, just admit it you Anglo-Saxons - all you want to do is get
your hands on our Slavic women.

But no passaran !

Posted by: James Riske

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
Neil277---

But your mum's experience/talk with Mick the driver is illuminating. It demonstrates the hypersensitivity of some minorities who have a difficult time finding their own sense of self-worth or identity in America 2004. By trying to link their difficulties with slavery, an institution banished by the 13th amendment to the U-S Constitution and the collapse of the Confederate Government/Army in 1865, from a generation that has never been enslaved is preposterous. Your mum did get a great look at some who are drenched in "victimization", who attribute some of the failures or shortcomings in their lives to their skin color as a distraction/excuse from the true reason for their problems, that is, their decisions and actions.

It was Al Gore that started the recount business; it was Al Gore who wanted to count dented chad- scratched chad; it was Al Gore who said his voters were too stupid to know that the hole next to Pat Buchanan's name meant anyone who stuck the thingee in the hole would actually be voting for Pat; it was Al Gore who wanted to recount Florida over and over, county after county, until he could get the result he wanted.

Several news services combined resources to do their own recount, and their results are undisputable. In this recount President Bush GAINED votes in Florida, thus winning the electoral votes and the presidential election. To continue rehashing that election is becoming abusive.

---Brad///

Good post, Brad and I totally agree.

I'm sick and tired of minorities crying 'victim' all the time and the wrong policies of giving them entitlements and treating them 'special'. All this does is create an entire group of people who are dependent on others.

The minority friends I have all got off their ass and made something of themselves and look down their nose (as do I) at all the people crying and complaining about being a victim of things that happened well over 150 years ago. And I know plenty of whites who play the 'victim' game as well: they were abused as children, alcoholic parents, born to poverty, whatever....

And the recount nonsense was a total joke and Al Gore has yet to apologize to the American people for what he put this country through by his crying and whinning at having lost. How many recounts have been done since 2000? Hundreds and hundreds by many organizations and news papers and guess what? Bush wins every single time. I have never heard of one single recount by any organization where Gore came out the winner.

Has Gore apologized? No. Has he even demonstrated shame? No.

And to top it all off, I still hear people saying, "Bush stole the election.." My God.!

Posted by: CDarwin

Quote:

Originally posted by Jerico
estguy,
I am just wondering if you ever have been to Russia.
In Moscow I have never seen so many high dollar mercedes and jaguars. It is amazing as well as all the fur coats being worn and nice clothes....

Don't be naive. Like ANY country in the world, people driving those extravagant cars could be fakers (leased/borrowed), drug dealers, corrupt government officials, black marketeers, mobsters, pimps, you name it....just NOT your average civilian.

Posted by: sidney

I read that Moscow is second to NYC as having the most millionairs living within a city.
Sid

Posted by: Jill

Quote:

drug dealers, corrupt government officials, black marketeers, mobsters, pimps, you name it....just NOT your average civilian.

In Moscow, those ARE your average civilians

Sorry, that was just a joke. I'll go back to minding my own business now

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Jill - oomnitsa !!! Very funny joke - you americans really do have a great sense of humour

Posted by: Menehune

Quote:

Originally posted by BradIL
The most recent data shows the U-S generates goods and services of $11.64 trillion by more than 146 million workers, that benefits an estimated 290.5 million citizens. That works out to more than $37,600 per capita.

In Russia, as of last year, goods and services generate an estimated $1.35 trillion that benefits more than 144.5 million citizens. That works out to more than $9,300 per capita.

Americans have 4 times the purchasing power of Russians, -or- Russians have a purchasing power of 24.7 cents compared to the dollar spent by an American.

Okay novel time.

Brad, you're using GDP per capita as a measure for comparision of standard of living between two countries, which very misleading. Then you use that data in your conclusion of purchasing power parity (PPP). Having said this, I must say, you do have a natural instinct for economics, your data crunching is just reverse.

Quote:

The populations and per capita income figures are generated by several sites also, and most use the purchasing power parity method to calcuate, that is, the dollar is the basis for the calculation.

GDP dollar estimates for all countries are derived from PPP calculations (used by the CIA and other agencies) rather than getting PPP from GDP, as you have.

In order to use GDP for comparing the standard of living in two nations, one first needs to express these numbers in the same currency. Using actual exchange rates when making these comparisons can give a very misleading picture of living standards. GDP per capita is a measure of the economic output of the whole economy domestically, not a direct measure of the mean or median person's quality of life. To me GDP is less important than GNP, which measure a country's economical output, domestically and internationally.

For example, if the value of the Ruble falls by half compared to the US dollar, the Gross Domestic Product measured in dollars will also halve. So according to the number you provided, Russia GDP/capita will be fall to $4000, which will mean only a 12% purchasing power of US. However, this exchange rate results from international trade and financial markets. It does not necessarily mean that Ukrainians are any poorer. Measuring income in different countries using PPP exchange rates helps to avoid this problem.

In economics and finance, the PPP method is used to as an alternative. The formula for GDP per capita is very simple.. GDP divide by population. GDP/population= GDP per capita. In economics PPP is a bit more complex. St/S(t-1)={P*t/(P*t-1)}/{Pt/(Pt-1), whereby St is the spot-rate and Pt is the price in period t (Foreign values are marked by an asterisk). The change in the exchange rate is determined by price level changes in both countries. HEHE fun huh? This stuff is second nature to me, it's why I majored in finance and econ.

In economics, PPP is the preferred method used to calculate exchange rates between the currencies of different countries. PPP exchange rates are used in international comparisons of standard of living. They calculate value of currencies based on what those currencies will buy in their nation of origin, not in our country.

PPP is a theory, yes just a theory, which states that exchange rates between currencies are in equilibrium when their purchasing power is the same in each of the two countries. This means that the exchange rate between two countries should equal the ratio of the two countries' price level of a fixed basket of goods and services. When a country's domestic price level is increasing (i.e., a country experiences inflation), that country's exchange rate must depreciated in order to return to PPP. The basis for PPP is the law of one price; the absence of transportation and other transaction costs, competitive markets will equalize the price of an identical good in two countries. But in reality, the law of one price does not really exist. Hence PPP is just a theory to be used as a model for predictions.

For example, a particular TV set that sells for 750 Austrain Dollars [AUD] should cost 500 US Dollars [USD] (Pt) when the exchange rate between AUS and the US is 1.50 AUD/USD (St). If the price of the TV in AUS was only 700 CAD (P*t), consumers in US would prefer buying the TV set in AUS. If this process (arbitrage) is carried out at a large scale, under the theory of PPP, the US consumers buying AUS goods will bid up the value of the Australian Dollar, thus making AUS goods more costly to them, under the law of one price.

We normally use the Big Mac for comparision. Yes the McD's big mac b/c it's one of the most prevelant product in the world, and is pretty much stardardized. You can find this index in the WSJ, Barrons, and the Economist; it's called the Hamburger Index or the Big Mac index. Don't laugh, it does exist.

Even if a good PPP is used, GDP per capita is still a measure of the economic output of the domestic economy (as I stated before), not a direct measure of person's quality of life. Other factors such as the quality of homes and schools, access to public services, the extent of pollution, and strength of consumer protection laws are hard to quantify and generally not fully reflected in the GDP. Thus, even a PPP-adjusted measure of GDP per capita must be used with caution, as it is only one component of quality of life and standard of living.

For example, in 2002, the GDP per capita for Japan was about US$40,000 and the PPP was estimated as $27,000, while in the US, GDP per capita was about $27,500 and the PPP was $36,000. I got my data from Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). You can get the PPP of most countries from their site at http://www.oecd.org/std/ppp.

As you can see, eventhough Japan had a greater GDP/capita, their PPP was far less. The US has higher PPP, as well as crime rates and a greater extent of poverty and slums than Japan, while Japan has much less physical space per person, arguably less individual freedom, and a freaking drivers liscense will cost you $3000 dollars, $8000 to retake, if you failed it the first time. Ultimately, the quality of life will depend on subjective judgement and individual preferences.

Per capita income also does not take into account inequalities in wealth distribution.

People in my field use PPP to predict an over or undervaluation of currencies and gives currency trader a good idea whether a currency will deflate or inflate. PPP is a component of GDP, not the other way around. If you assume that GDP = PPP, you will lose alot of money in the investment world.

Most of this info was from my 15 yr old econ book from college. You can find the same stuff if you do a search.

Steve, MBA, CFA -- not CPA

Posted by: CDarwin

Wow! I'm amazed sometimes by the detailed arguments on economic topics (or any other topic for that matter) on internet forums that are worthy of a graduate school thesis ! Anyways, I skipped straight to the synopsis as usual.

Posted by: Pin Boy

me too...i aint that bright and my eyes get glassy and i feel kinda woozy when it comes to that sorta stuff...wish i did have the capacity to understand it but...i think i'm one of the few to make it through undergrad and grad school without taking a statistics class...just lucky i guess

pin boy

Posted by: Menehune

sorry, i got carried away.

I'll explain it more simply. Using GDP per capita as a measure of living standards is misleading b/c one must convert it to US dollars at the actual exchange rate at the time in which the data was crunched out.

Case in point. In the late 70's - early 80's, Japanese products was flooding the US market b/c they were cheap. The exchange rate was around 600 yen = 1 dollar. Under pressure from interest groups and etc., the US govt. over night peg 1 dollar to 300 yen, devaluing the dollar to yen by half. Overnight, Japan's GDP per capital as express in dollars also halved. Japan's economic output did not change. Japanese standard of living did not change. But, if one is to use GDP per capital as a measure of the quality of life, one would be misguided. GDP per capital is short-term, at that specific time. GDP only includes finish goods and services, it does not include the corn and wheat used to make cerals, or the steel and aluminium to make cars, but that's another story.

Under purchasing power parity (PPP), we are not looking for disparity, but just the opposite. Parity means equality, equilibrium in amount or value. PPP ignores the actual exchange rate at that moment in time. Rather it looks at a particular good or basket of goods, over a period of time (months or years) in one country and compare it to the exact good or basket of goods to another country. You look at the percentage change in price of said goods or servics of one counrty and compare it to ours. In that comparison you will get a PPP exchange rate that is a more accurate picture of the value of the currency over a period of time in it's home country. Using that PPP exchange rate, one then takes the GDP over the same period and express it in dollars.

The difference between GDP per capital and PPP are the exchange rate used and time. GDP per capital will rarely, if ever, equal PPP. The difference in GDP per capital and PPP will be greater during inflation, in Russia's case during super inflation. Russia's GDP per capital may not of change or even increased during that time. But due to hyper-inflation, Russia's PPP decreased drastically.

In either case, one should not look at these numbers as if it were the bible to the standard living conditions. What is considered a necessity in one society may be considered a luxery in another. The bottome-line is that a good standard of living from one culture to the next is totally subjective.

phew, what a

job.. hope that is more more simple.

steve

Posted by: BradIL

Menehune---

Points taken, but its the method available with any reasonable accuracy. Especially GDP growth is also affected by inflation rates, changing pressures on pricing structures, etc.

The Big Mac index I have seen. The St. Louis Fed recently published an article in its economic review publication. The highlight I remember was Japan actually beat the U-S by a minute in the amount of labor needed on average to purchase a Big Mac.

But to the PPP method, remember any measurement of parity expressed is against the whatever the bases the calculations, in this instance, the U-S dollar. You can calculate all against the Euro just as easily.

But PPP is a way to demonstrate not just dollar volume, but the purchasing power of that dollar. An article I read a few months ago sez it is the best barometer IN THE AGGREGATE to demonstrate how a currency works in different economies.

Of course a lot of factors play here, some of which is reflected in GDP. Inflation, access/restriction of producers to local markets, governmental policy, etc. But there must be some standard to judge the purchasing power when those factors are weighed.

So such a study does, in fact, demonstrate the basic power of a dollar and what a consumer can do with it. Exchange rates float, but snapshots as such are accurate for that point in time they examine. And it seems to be the trend of a broad indicator sticks.

When someone discusses the earning power of Eastern Europeans' in this forum they usually relate it in U-S dollars. 'She earns $200 a month', from this we can get a broad idea of just how much economic power her compensation carries in the U-S. Purchasing power, indeed, can be accurate in this regard.

And remember, the U-S dollar is a currency that has seen low inflation for the past decade (1-5% a year). Its value is eroding slowly, as is Great Britain's, Germany, Japan (which has seen deflation). Combined with a good GDP growth rate, I say PPP is imperfect, but accurate IN THE OVERALL, and is valid demonstration of the economic forces involved.

---Brad///

But I'm willing to be corrected, go for it.

Posted by: CDarwin

Another interesting economic tidbit:

3.5% : Share of the world's total population tha resides in the U.S.A.

53% : Share of the world's total wealth that is held in the U.S.A.

(Fortune, 2004)

However, I've also read somewhere that the Top 5% AGI earners pay a whopping 53% of all federal income taxes.

Ahhhhhh....."Reality: what a concept!" (Robin Williams)!

Posted by: Menehune

hehe, and we consume bout 25% of the world resources. i believe a significant part of that 53% of the world's wealth maybe foreign reserves held in US banks in form of gold and US bonds. in the federal reserve bank alone it total to about 750 billion in 2003. http://www.federalreserve.gov.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

Why RW, and Russian Men as well, are looking to evacuate and leave Matushka Rossija is quite simple. 70 years of bolshevia and socialism has destoroyed that country so much that there are very few other options. It just makes me wonder why people who call themselves Russian patriots actually miss the USSR ...

Posted by: parasionok

There are good things and bad things in Russia. But I cannot agree with Pawel that Russia is so badly destroyed, that everybody wants to flee... There are lots of opportunities in Russia and there are people who would never relocate under any conditions... It is like everywhere else in the world. I know people from the UK, US, Australia who are coming to Germany to work because they've got more options in Germany than in their native countries. I know quite a few Americans in Moscow who work there and they think they have more opportunities in Russia than in the US.

Posted by: Pawel_PL.USA

He he, well if you are one of those robber-baron, communist-turn-capitalist bandits like Chodorovski, Berezovski, Abramovich, Friedman, Potanin etc. etc. then you have plenty of options ... but the common man is basically "screwed" from the Elbe to Vladivostok. It makes me wonder how many more generations it will take to repair the great ravages of communism.