Yet another monstrous act of terror - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

Yet another monstrous act of terror
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: martin3030

I cannot see any postings on this here but the Russian people can be assured that all of the civilised world is watching this tragic situation with bated breath for a safe passage to all the Children parents and staff.

It is assuring to see that many Countries are offering practical support which may assist a conclusion without making the same mistakes as in the past.

As the situation goes into another day our hearts minds and prayers are with all at risk from these monsters of Evil.

Posted by: James Riske

I can't believe they are using children, babies, and toddlers as hostages. Unbelievable. Little children who are no doubt scared out of their minds. And the parents? I can't imagine what they are going through.

I have the feeling this is all going to backfire on them and Putin is going to come down hard on them over the next few months or years. Just as Bush came down hard on Al Qaida, Putin will come down very hard on them. They've simply gone too far.

Posted by: rtking

I've stated publicly that I think terrorists are cowards. To use women and children in their plot simply crosses the line. This act really does not draw people to empathize with their cause. In fact, it just disgusts all people and makes them even more despised.

In Ukraine, I watched the newstory where a father charged toward the building to save his daughter. The terrorists cut him down in a hail of gunfire. His body still lays in the grass because the troops can't retrieve him without being fired upon.

All cowards. I have no sympathy for such animals.

Bob

Posted by: Jill

I just heard that the roof of the school collapsed. Any news on that?

Posted by: Jill

Here's the latest:

Quote:

BESLAN, Russia (CNN) -- Special forces have stormed a school in southern Russia in a bid to end a two-day hostage crisis after dozens of hostages escaped amid explosions and intense gunfire.

Commandos were in control of the school Friday, Russian news agencies said, but gunfire could still be heard from the scene.

A local official said "most" of the hostages were alive. The ITAR-Tass news agency reported that 200 children had been hospitalized.

Russian television NTV said five of the hostage-takers had been killed.

Unconfirmed reports said some of the hostage-takers, including two disguised women, had escaped during the chaos and were trying to flee the city.

Several loud explosions and small-arms fire were heard for more than an hour near the school, where armed hostage-takers had been holding hundreds of children, parents and teachers.

ITAR-Tass said soldiers blew a hole in the building to help with the raid. Interfax quoted authorities as saying the school roof had collapsed.

Children, some of them naked and others in their underwear, escaped and were crowded into a makeshift area surrounded by Russian military vehicles outside the school.

Many were receiving medical treatment as well as food and water.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote reported seeing numerous wounded people being evacuated from the area.

"Those children who remained in the school, in general, did not suffer. The ones who suffered were the children in the group which ran from the school and on whom the fighters opened fire," Interfax quoted an official as saying, Reuters reported.

According to Russian news agencies, gunfire erupted Friday when some of the hostage-takers tried to break out of the school as troops approached to collect the bodies of those killed in Wednesday's initial attack.

Blasts went off in the vicinity of the school, and children tried to escape. The hostage-takers then turned their gunfire on the children, the agencies reported.

Earlier, Russian officials said it was possible that hundreds more people had been taken hostage than first thought.

A spokesman for the regional government told CNN an earlier estimate of 350 hostages was low.

Two of 26 hostages freed by their captors on Thursday indicated there were 1,000 children, parents and teachers inside the building in Beslan, near the troubled Russian republic of Chechnya.

Relatives waiting outside the school also have said there could have been as many as 1,000 hostages, noting that the school has 11 grades with 75-100 students in each grade.

Asked about the discrepancy with the earlier estimate, the regional government spokesman said officials originally accounted only for those children whose parents reported them missing.

But teachers also were in the school when armed attackers seized the building Wednesday morning.

And many of the children -- especially in the lower grades -- were accompanied by their parents and in some cases entire families for a celebration to mark the start of the school year.

Before Friday's developments, Chilcote said the situation in the school was "very, very dire."

"Two of the 26 women and children released yesterday are saying the situation is very bad inside the school's gymnasium where the hostages are being kept.

"At one point the men were separated from the women and children. The men were then brought back into the gymnasium, but there weren't as many of them, and there's no word what happened to the other men."

"There is no food and water. At one point the hostage-takers brought them one cup of water for, as they put it, 1,000 hostages."

The attackers had threatened to kill the children if an assault was launched.

"Our most important task in the current situation is, of course, to save the lives and health of those who were taken hostage," Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday.

The former president of Ingushetia, Ruslan Aushev, had been leading the talks with the hostage-takers. Aushev entered the school and met face-to-face with the captors. Ingushetia is a Russian republic bordering Chechnya.

Tense negotiations saw 26 women and children -- some of them infants -- released from the school Thursday. Security forces in military fatigues carried the children to safety.

Officials had said there were between 15 and 20 armed assailants, including at least two women. Some were reported to be wearing explosives-packed belts.

Theater siege
The crisis was reminiscent of the October 2002 siege of a Moscow theater, when Chechen rebels threatened to kill some 700 hostages and demanded an end to the war in Chechnya.

Many of those attackers were women, with explosives belts strapped to their body, while the men were armed with pistols and rifles. Two massive bombs also had been placed in the theater.

That standoff ended when Russian forces piped poison gas into the theater to knock out everyone inside, but more than 120 hostages and 41 attackers were killed, most of them from the gas.

The current crisis follows a bloody week in Russia. A female suicide bomber killed nine people outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday, and two suspected Chechen female suicide bombers downed two airliners on August 24, killing all 89 people aboard the planes.

Russian officials have said the new wave of attacks is an attempt at revenge for last weekend's elections in Chechnya in which a Kremlin-backed candidate won the presidency.

Beslan is 30 kilometers (19 miles) north of Vladikavkaz in southern Russia, which borders Chechnya.

So in the past week there have been two crashed planes, a suicide bomber near a metro in Moscow, one school held hostage...

This is just terrible. I'm afraid to think of what could happen next

Posted by: Jill

Here are excerpts of eyewitness accounts (also from CNN):

Quote:

BESLAN, Russia (CNN) -- Chilling accounts have been given from the scene of the horrific ordeal of hundreds held captive at the Beslan school in southern Russia -- and the shootings which ended the siege.

End of the siege

"Those children who remained in the school, in general, were not hurt. The ones who suffered were the children in the group which ran from the school and on whom the fighters opened fire." -- Unidentified security official quoted by Tass.

Start of the raid

Rosa Dudiyeva, a grandmother of a first-grade girl named Milana, told the Kommersant daily how a military GAZ-66 truck and a police car drove up to the building thirty minutes after the start of the start-of-term meeting involving schoolchildren, staff and parents.

Terrorists seized the police car and the officer in it on their way to the school, Pravda quoted Izvestia as reporting. About 15 armed people, with several women among them, jumped out of the truck.

"When the meeting was over, the daughter went to her class room with other children, and I stayed outside to talk to one of the teachers. A military truck appeared in front of the school building. People wearing camouflage and masks jumped out of the truck - I could see only their eyes and beards.

"They opened fire, everyone started running about. Some people, including myself, managed to hide behind a fence. We tried to peep out to see what was happening, but were scared to approach the building.

"Several gunmen stayed outside, near the entrance. They started screaming in very good Russian: 'Russians, Russians, come here, don't be afraid!" One of the terrorists tried to lure children with a chocolate.' -- Eyewitness Rosa Dudiyeva to Kommersant daily

"We were standing with our backs to the street and we did not see the truck. When we turned around, it was already there, people were jumping out of it, several men wearing masks were walking towards the school.

"There were two women among them, wearing black clothes. They were throwing some grenades, and then they started shooting and encircling us. I grabbed my little sister's hand and ran towards the trees. No one was shooting at us." Tenth-grade pupil Zaur Dzafarov, who managed to flee from the terrorists, to Kommersant daily

Hostage numbers

"You know, there aren't 350 people in there, but 1,500 in all. People are lying one on top of another." -- Freed hostage Zalina Dzandarova to Kommersant daily

"Are you crazy? There are 1,020 people in there!" -- freed hostage Adel Itskayeva to Gazeta

Casualties

"They took some of the injured out of the gym and finished them off right there in the corridor." -- Freed hostage Zalina Dzandarova to Kommersant daily

Conditions inside

"People are lying on the floor next to one another. The terrorists separated us. Those, who did not feel very good, were placed in locker rooms. They made male hostages break the windows, because it was too stuffy in the gym." -- Freed hostage Zalina Dzandarova to Kommersant daily

According to Pravda, Dzandzzarova said that there were a lot of wounded people during the first minutes of the terrorist attack. The militants shot those, who could not walk inside the building or remained lying on the ground of the school yard.

Dzandzarova also said that two suicide bombers had killed themselves on Wednesday - they exploded themselves in the corridor, where male hostages were being kept.

'Gym mined'

"They told us to sit down and began to mine the gym. Two big explosive devices have been placed in the basketball hoop." -- Unidentified free woman hostage to Izvestia daily

Captors' behavior

"In general, they do not talk much and they talk a lot in whispers ... In the main they explained themselves with gestures. But it did happen that they spoke. By their speech, it is possible to say that among them were Chechens and also Ingush. We did not see their faces. They did not take off their masks." -- Unidentified free woman hostage to Izvestia daily

Children crying

During the night, she said, children occasionally began to cry.

"Then the fighters would fire in the air to restore quiet. In the morning they told us that they would not give us anything more to drink because the authorities were not ready to negotiate. When children went to the toilet, some tried to drink from the tap. The fighters stopped these attempts straight away" -- Unidentified free woman hostage to Izvestia daily

Infants held aparts

"Women with small infants greatly upset the fighters. In the morning they led them all out of the gym and put them apart on the second floor" -- Unidentified free woman hostage to Izvestia daily

Posted by: rtking

Thanks for the updates, Jill. I'm reading about them now on CNN's website and will turn-on the TV soon. These terrorists are just animals. I can't believe they killed the injured also. The trauma they've caused these children is just unforgiveable in my opinion. These guys without conscience and remorse... I'm just speechless.

Bob

Posted by: Jill

Yeah, the other part that got me was that oneof them allegedly tried to lure kids inside the school with chocolate. Just unbelievable

Posted by: Keystone

This is such a horrible day in which so many children where killed. And for what purpose. Did they really expect to succeed? I think not. My prayers go out to their families. It is a blessing for all of the children that did escape.

Rich

Posted by: mila

Look, it is so awful

(( http://www.livejournal.com/users/spuller/112407.html

Posted by: mila

http://www.moscowhelp.org/

Posted by: Bordric

I have not posted here in a while but...

I wanted the Russian members to know that we shed tears for your lost. I was moved more over this then the 9/11 event in fact I was moved a great deal over the images. It was horrible and I have nothing much to say that will mean anything to compare to the losses it is just very sad, and for what it is worth we feel your pain.

Posted by: BradIL

Thought I would post what has been running on the AP wires for those of you logging on Saturday morning.

AP sent info Sat. morning on an URGENT classification at about 0640 hours Eastern time.

AP says the ITAR-Tass News Service is quoting Russia's Deputy Prosecutor as saying:

1) There have been 322 bodies pulled from the school, 155 of them children.

2) Somewhere around 500 injured, but the total count still unconfirmed at this point, and the breakdown between children and adults not determined.

3) Russian President Vladimir Putin has closed the borders of North Ossetia, and russian military/militia searching for militants.

So it is at 0700 hours eastern time.

---BradIL///

Posted by: Andy72

This is more than horrible. I can almost better give sense to a war, when sadly not only the military end up to be involved, but things like this... How can they do it, this way, and for what, and why children. What they want, to show us that they are worse than animals?

This is a very sad day.

Posted by: BradIL

Friends---

Further update. There is video that's been streaming down throughout Sat. morning.

Scene at the school, soldiers milling about, what looks to be a search, etc.

Also an interesting 10 seconds from Reuters Television of a crowd either beating a militant, or the body of a militant.

When I saw the video via CBS, you just see a crowd and some folks in the middle moving, but you don't see a body.

Might want to scan across the web later Saturday to see if its available. Video is not long, or graphic.

--- BradIL

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

I awoke in the middle of the night ( on the 2nd September 2004)
and for me this is unusual as I dont usually do " prayer " and I really felt the need to pray - I now know that the people in that school needed prayer in thier darkest hour- the images and the news since that time indicate that there has been a massacre of unimaginable proportions. I feel very sad for the parents and the children who lost thier lives in this way . I join in russia's mourning
Why has this been allowed to happen ? So many unaswered questions .

Posted by: Jill

I was watching "Euronews" this morning and they were showing men building the wooden coffins and nailing small crosses on them....

Posted by: Eric-USA

Yet another dispicable act by the human race. I truly don't understand why terrorists target children and other innocents. I would think that targetting military, police, and infrastructure would be more effective. Acts such as this only harm the cause of the terrorists.

However, I would like to point out that when governments behave in this manner far less attention is paid to the atrocities commited.

80,000 Chechnyans dead (Thru 1999)

From all the information I have read about the Chechnyan war over the years the government in Chechnya, which is loyal to Moscow, has been no less brutal. Russia has been one of the most notorious and murderous societies to ever exist. Causing 10's of millions of dead amongst its own people and other nations thru Genocide/Democide during the 20th century.

Deathtolls

Sudanese are dying everyday in what is essentially a racial purge. Estimated dead to reach 300K-1000K and this gets very little attention. This adds to the 2 million dead due to war/famine in Sudan over the previous two decades.

Sudan

Although this act against the children was horrific it is something that happens in some fashion almost every day somewhere and has been occurring for decades.

Posted by: Jill

Bob's certainly right about them being cowards. Here's an excerpt from an article on CCN. How mad does this make you?

Quote:

Russian state-run television says the government has a man in custody who was part of the group responsible for the deadly school siege in Beslan.

The network showed footage of the man, whose name was not given, being heavily guarded by commando forces.

The suspect, who spoke on camera, proclaimed his innocence.

"Of course I pitied the children, I swear to Allah. I have children myself. I didn't shoot. I swear to Allah," he said. "I don't want to die. I swear to Allah, I want to live."

No information was provided as to when and where the suspect was taken into custody.

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Yesterday I saw the front pages of the newspapers- one journalist was close enough to photograph a young girl of about 8 who had been blown through a school window by the force of an explosion.Dazed and blood stained. the young girl struggled to get up, and then tried to get back into the school via the window she had been blown out of ; she wanted to be with her family who were still inside the school . Eventually , she suceeded in climbing back into the school but three minutes later another explosion caused the roof to fall onto her and anyone left alive in the room. If I can find the photographs I will e mail them to the forum.
I saw just 3 images of the young girl - first her attempts to stand , then her attempts to be reunited with her familly in the bombed room and finally 3 minutes later the image of the room she had entered on fire . To say that I am angry at the criminals who planned and executed this attrocity is an understatement - this beggars belief and is the lowest act of cowardice I have seen in my lifetime bar none.

The news also stated that the massacre occured on September 1st which in Russia is called " Knowledge Day " when parents celebrate the return of thier child to school - it is a day of celebration where all the children are in thier finest clothes and proud grandparents and mothers take thier children to the first day of school. The first indication that something horrific was happening in the town was the release of many balloons into the air- the ballons were taken to the school by grandparents and were to decorate the classrooms ; thier release indicated that people had let go of the balloons in order to run- then the sound of gunshots .

How could this happen ? I think reports are emerging that police / border officals had been bribed and that criminals had been allowed to enter the town during the school shutdown.
I also think that officials should have cordoned the school off by placing a 1 mile cordon around the school ( standard practice in UK ) and banning all public, police and journalists and the matter should have been dealt with by Alpha force ( the speznatz). Instead of which it appears to have been a free for all - mismanaged from the start. But the fault and real blame is fundamentalism and the perversion of religion for political aims by the chechens. The chechen terrorists may have scored a huge media coup but it has not won them any friends and in the long run it will ultimately mean that they will be sidelined in future talks related to the constitution of Chechenya- the history of Northern Ireland has shown that the terrorist has eventually been sidelined in negotiations because the very act of terror alienates the very people for whom the terrorist supposedly fights for.

Posted by: Clarita

Eric-USA
You don't have right to say that. It is the same as we say that USA got what deserve on 9/11 by provide their agressive politics in XX centure against almost all the world. If we check all people dead in results of US agression wars, we will get numbers much bigger.

The more terrible here is that many western countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway (and US too!) are against muslim terror only on words. But in real life they support terrorists, call them rebelds, give them possibility to live in their country and save power for new actions.

Posted by: Eric-USA

I do have the right to make such statements. In no way did I state that the Russians deserve this or would I ever condone any attack on innocents. Remember violence begets violence and the Russian government and military have committed acts of terrorism against Chechnyans. The worst thing is now many innocent Chechnyans will be slaughtered and oppressed due to this act.

And yes, the United States and many European countries have done more than their share of brutal acts. Many people around the world see and hear about the brutality and bloodshed in Iraq caused by Americans and abhor it. Sad to say but far fewer Americans think anything of it even after realizing that the entire invasion was built on lies and misinformation. Now that Iraq is destabilized, terrorist have moved in and set up operations across the country. We managed to do the exact OPPOSITE of what we went in to do. Or did we?

The governments of the world will continue to commit crimes against people and often it will be the innocents that suffer the backlash of such actions. Terrorism will grow and the very countries that claim to be fighting it are fueling it, in some ways willingly.

Posted by: Andy72

I don't think I could compare acts of war to terrorism in anyway; terrorism use civilians and children as their direct and primary target to cause 'terror' as the word itself explains.

Ciao!

Posted by: Eric-USA

When people live in absolute fear of their own government I would call that terror. People think nothing of the thousands pulled from their homes and murdered by Russian security forces. Of course, when it is a government we all hate we say these acts are done by "terror squads". When it is our own government or one favored by us we wouldn't dare call it that, at least most of us.

Substantial numbers of those that have died in Chechnya are children. Many of these terrorists are getting revenge by committing crimes no less heinous than those of the government and military. The Chechens committing these acts are doing so because of the crimes committed against them and the people they love.

There are far more than enough sites that post on the enormous atrocities committed in Chechnya. People should educate themselves on what happens there so that these acts stop and more Chechens don't lose their minds and will do anything for payback.

The first thing people should do is ask "Why did this Happen?� Instead most will call for blood and great numbers of people will die and suffer who had no part in this. It is sad how quickly we are to condemn and ask for vengeance or to condemn and walk away. And so the cycle of hate and blood continues because few want to see the whole picture.

Definition of Terrorism

The act of terrorizing; use of force or threats to demoralize, intimidate, and subjugate, especially such as a political weapon or policy .

Interesting how many governments that this can and has been applied to over the years, and I'm not talking 3rd world.

Posted by: Eric-USA

I would like to see the terrorism against the Russian people stopped by both sides. Educating people is the best means I have of doing that so if you really want to see why this terrible act came to be read the entire article and know that it is only a part of what happens.

This is one of many articles I can easily find.

http://www.idee.org/lreport20.html

A quote from the article:

"The leadership of the Russian military has long admitted the ineffectiveness of such measures, which they refer to as �passport control,� in rooting out separatist fighters. These mop-up operations, which are accompanied by theft, vandalism, and extortion, have turned into a full-fledged terror campaign against the civilian population of Chechnya. More than 90% of those arrested during the operations have no connection to the separatist fighters. In the best-case scenario, those arrested are bought back by their relatives, beaten, crippled, and barely alive. Quite often, however, all that is left are mutilated corpses, which the families are frequently forced to buy from the Russian soldiers."

Posted by: Clarita

Then you must support the basks and northern irish rebelds who killed lots of people demandong freedom for Pais Basco and Northern Ireland. When something happen in western countries, everyone start to scream: kill them! Bomb them! But when same happen in Russia, same people say:. or, yes, it is terrible but may be russians was guilty? Usual western double standards.

Posted by: Vyesna

Actually, a lot of Americans supported the IRA-- the U.S. was their major funding source.

Posted by: Keystone

I would agree but I would not say most Americans. A very small amount of Americans supports the IRA. There are you other groups of Americans supporting all kinds of organizations or movements.

Keystone

Posted by: Vyesna

Of course not. I didn't say most, I said "a lot", meaning a sizeable group but by no means a mainstream movement or anything.

Posted by: Keystone

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarita
When something happen in western countries, everyone start to scream: kill them! Bomb them! But when same happen in Russia, same people say:. or, yes, it is terrible but may be russians was guilty? Usual western double standards. [/B]

This act of terror is a wake up call for Russia. I know that America secruity was very bad before 9/11 and the hijackers mostly had invalid travel documents. The hijackers learnt to fly planes in America. I do not jump on the band wagon to despence blame. IMO the main thing is that secruity needs to be improved all over the world.

Update. The miltiants used a camera to document this horrible act. They realeased about a minute of it today. I am sure there is a lot on the tape we will never see.

Keystone

Posted by: Eric-USA

Quote:

Originally posted by Clarita
Then you must support the basks and northern irish rebelds who killed lots of people demandong freedom for Pais Basco and Northern Ireland. When something happen in western countries, everyone start to scream: kill them! Bomb them! But when same happen in Russia, same people say:. or, yes, it is terrible but may be russians was guilty? Usual western double standards.

I have equally criticized the U.S. and European countries so I have no double standard. The only double standard I see is that too many think it is O.K. for Russia to slaughter tens of thousands of its own people without just cause yet they feel it is so tragic and unwarranted when the victimizers become the victims of similar actions.

Did you know elements in the U.S. are now trying to make the case for military action against Iran? See what happens when people refuse to see fault in their own.

Clarita, you need to wake up and realize just how corrupt and ruthless the powers that be are in the Russian Federation. This tragedy was a direct result of Russian actions in Chechnya just as the attacks in the week preceding it. Then again the U.S. certainly isn't behaving much better.

I leave you with this quote from an American who trained Afghans to kill Soviets during the Afghan-Soviet war: "One of these days these people are going to use what we have taught them against us"

Posted by: Andy72

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric-USA
This tragedy was a direct result of Russian actions in Chechnya just as the attacks in the week preceding it. Then again the U.S. certainly isn't behaving much better.
...

You are justifying their actions; I would be careful in stating what your are stating...

Ciao!

Posted by: Eric-USA

If someone dies in a car accident due to a drunken driver and I place blame on that driver did I justify manslaughter? Placing blame does not justify anything. Again, another post from someone who refuses to see how this cycle of violence came to be and will continue.

Posted by: Andy72

Eric I simply think, like US and Russia have to be blamed for many of their actions, so terrorists have to be blamed for theirs. We cannot end up putting the blame only on one side, I wish it was that simple.

Ciao!

Posted by: Eric-USA

I placed the blame on both sides. Note the cycle of violence which can only continue if both sides allow it to. My original post is to show that the Russians thru their actions in Chechnya have caused a great deal of the terrorist actions against them. I made that post because few people care about the brutality in Chechnya and may very well support further aggression by Russian forces due to ignorance.

Look at how American ignorance allowed President Bush to gain support amongst the populace to invade Iraq. Most Americans actually thought the Iraqi's were involved in 9/11 and that Iraqi's were among the terrorists hijackers. Of the 15 hijackers 11 were Saudi's, the leader was Saudi, and most of the funding to Al-Qaeda before and after has come from Saudi's. We invaded 2 countries and left the one that was by far the most responsible alone. Worst of all the Saudi's have financially benefited greatly due to investments in U.S. defense industries.

This needs to stop before we are all plunged into another World War. We may already be heading to a holy war and not realize how close we stand to the brink.

Posted by: Jerico

Quote:

Look at how American ignorance allowed President Bush to gain support amongst the populace to invade Iraq. Most Americans actually thought the Iraqi's were involved in 9/11 and that Iraqi's were among the terrorists hijackers. Of the 15 hijackers 11 were Saudi's, the leader was Saudi, and most of the funding to Al-Qaeda before and after has come from Saudi's. We invaded 2 countries and left the one that was by far the most responsible alone. Worst of all the Saudi's have financially benefited greatly due to investments in U.S. defense industries

Eric,
I think if the USA did invade Saudi Arabia you would be complaining about that also.Judging by your opinions on Iraq.
If the USA was not so worried about political correctness , perhaps 911 would not have happened.
You cannot reason with these terrorist unless your willing to convert to Muslim ,end of story.
They dont want to live with us in peace
They want us dead because to them we are infidels.
I am hoping Russia has the backbone to go in and take these guys and girls out. My now fiancee uses that metro stop that was bombed last week in Moscow
Luckily she did not go to work that day but the bomb went off about the time she would be leaving work. of course she probably would not of been there that exact time but still , people should not have to worry about these things from coward bombers.
The world will be a safer place when these religious terrorist are all in the ground face down.

Jerry

Posted by: rtking

We're not supposed to post links here, but I hope this will be OK. This is a link to CNN's website showing footage inside the school. Barbarians and animals... all of them! I hate terrorists.

Bob

CNN link

Posted by: Eric-USA

Jerico you are wrong about my opinion on Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have a long history of actions against the U.S. and the Iraqi's did not. Also, you as the others fail to realize my point that little is said or done about the terrorist acts of the Russians against the Chechens.

Russian retaliation

Read this story and understand what is being said.

The bottom line is that the Russians are committing the same atrocities every day in Chechnya yet not one other person will stand against them in this forum.

Russians killed by Chechen terrorism: 100s
Chechens killed by Russians: 10,000s
Chechens raped, beaten, bombed, tortured, stolen from by Russians: 100,000s

All the above is wrong yet I am the sole voice that condems both sides.

The whole reasoning with terrorist only if you are muslim is narrowminded and rediculous. Muslims are not the only terrorist. Have you heard of the IRA?

I will not post on this again as it is clear the tunnel-vision present in this forum.

Posted by: James Riske

Quote:

Originally posted by Jerico

If the USA was not so worried about political correctness , perhaps 911 would not have happened.

YES! You are so right.

I'm so sick of politically correct 'girly men' in this country, it just makes me sick. Adult white males in the U.S. are afraid of their own shadows. It just makes me sick. Way too many whimps here, way too many. There's hardly any real men left, men who are proud to be a man, proud of their race, and unafraid to call a spade a spade.

Posted by: Bordric

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric-USA
Jerico you are wrong about my opinion on Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have a long history of actions against the U.S. and the Iraqi's did not. Also, you as the others fail to realize my point that little is said or done about the terrorist acts of the Russians against the Chechens.

Russian retaliation

Read this story and understand what is being said.

The bottom line is that the Russians are committing the same atrocities every day in Chechnya yet not one other person will stand against them in this forum.

Russians killed by Chechen terrorism: 100s
Chechens killed by Russians: 10,000s
Chechens raped, beaten, bombed, tortured, stolen from by Russians: 100,000s

All the above is wrong yet I am the sole voice that condems both sides.

The whole reasoning with terrorist only if you are muslim is narrowminded and rediculous. Muslims are not the only terrorist. Have you heard of the IRA?

I will not post on this again as it is clear the tunnel-vision present in this forum.

Eric I think you are being a bit simplistic on both terrorism and especially the war in Chechnya. Yes war not Russian terror. There have been crimes committed by the Russians in Chechnya this is well known and a sad fact of war.

Chechnya is a part of Russia. If we look at a couple of hundred years then we will this is simple fact. You seem to forget that these same terrorist were kidnapping westerners and killing them since the fall of the USSR. They hate the west and Russia and will continue to do this even if Russia pulled out tomorrow. They showed this in 1997-1999.

However you are totally excusing terrorist acts against a school by using the war as an excuse. The war there is very complicated and in fact the Russian's pulled out in 1996 and were practically invaded in 1999 by Chechnya insurgents. This is nothing new it happened during WWII it happened during WWI it happened under the Tsars and it is happening today. The fact is Chechnya is part of Russia that is simple fact. Secondly it is a hotbed for Middle East fanatics who enjoy killing civilians and use it for political gain. Islamist terrorist are nothing new and have been using the same tactics for decades, actually centuries. Only recently has it become a major threat starting with one of the worse terrorist attack in history on Sept. 11th 2001. The main reason Bin Laden gave in his own words was because US troops were in Saudi Arabia. This was his main reason and his hatred for the SA government to kill 3000 people. US Support to Israel is also a major factor, but even if you remove that then you still have the fact that these terrorist are still going to attack people. Take France for instance� If it is not one reason they will find another. Welcome to the world of Globalization this is a by product of such events and clash of civilizations.

I was ashamed that people in the US government had the audacity to talk of negotiations with these people. When our own policy is no negotiation no compromise with terrorist. Set down by Reagan years before. I think Putin put it well when he said there will be �no negotiation with child killers�.

This is a world war have no doubts about it and when people treat it as such we can fight it and find peace. It will not be done at a table either. Bush understands this and it is not a popular stance in the world but it is stance I agree with and so do many Americans. November will show this clearly.
.

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel,

I try to keep away from this subject but i feel i have to say someting in these bad times.

I feel people have had enough of trouble around the world and just want peace and to live a normal and happy life.

9/11 was very bad but what can we do, Saddam has now gone but is the world a safer place no.

The main man i want arrested is Bin Laden and this man must never face the U.S.A courts, this person is not brave but a weak man, but he has carisma or people would not join his army.

Islam is a religion and there are many people who respect there faith and will never hurt another human being, so why does this guy hate the west.

I feel Mr Bush is wrong on war and Tony Blair has put London in great danger through siding with this man, yes Saddam had to go but what next syria i can promise, England will play no part in this next war as we have good relations with this country.

London had 25 years of war with the I.R.A and the only way to get peace is to talk and give a little to the attacker.

What happened in Russia was very sad and Mr Putin wants revenge and it will happen, children are the future in our lives and what happened that day was very wrong, they were not terrorist nor animals but pure evil, Russia should make a stand and the man who was captured should be let go but only to the people of Russia and let them decide what to do with him, the peoples court.

I believe in the death penalty and wish Britian introduced this again but not for many years to come.

I feel Mr Bush will be will become President again but i feel America has more terror on there door step, as soon as this guy goes the terror will stop.

This is my views and the way i look at things in life, but i feel people have had enough of wars and terriosts.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: BradIL

Neil---

Offer this criticism only to introduce a bit of perspective I find missing.

I agree with President Bush's strategy in this war, and he offered good advice from the beginning, the capture/demise of any individual will not signal a victory in the war against terrorists. Irrespective of the personalities involved, it is the organizations that prompt acts such as those at the school in Breslan that are the threat.

Breslan also points out that terrorists have declared war on much of the world, whether you like it or not, whether you want it or not. The message from the terrorists is clear: Live your lives our way, or don't live at all.

Ignoring the terrorists, hoping they will go away, is foolish and dangerous. If you don't deal with them, they will deal with you. Classic form of tyranny the world has seen over and over for centuries.

Posted by: sidney

Quote:

Ignoring the terrorists, hoping they will go away, is foolish and dangerous. If you don't deal with them, they will deal with you. Classic form of tyranny the world has seen over and over for centuries.

I couldn't agree more.
Sid

Posted by: neil277

Sunday 12 September 2004 04:54pm

AL-QAEDA: THE COCA-COLA OF TERROR

THREE years since 9/11 and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terror franchise is worldwide. He hardly matters any more, Bush's war has given him all the marketing he needs.

Wherever there is an Islamic cause, al-Qaeda is there - the Coca-Cola of terror. But instead of commercial infiltration, al-Qaeda uses religion, targeting vulnerable governments and their military props, then exploiting the oppressed minorities and the injustice, poverty and ignorance that go with them. Iraq and Chechnya are obvious examples. President Putin, like Bush, won't recognise this. He has learnt nothing from the Beslan massacre. He refused o countenance talks with the Chechens with the retort: "Why don't you invite bin Laden to Brussels or the White House, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace? No one has a moral right to tell us to talk to child killers."

True. But the Russians have killed Chechen children too. Hatred, violence and long-term suppression - as part of Russia's brutal determination to keep Chechnya in its empire - led to the massacre. As one of the hostage-takers told little Georgy Farniev, the 10-year-old whose video image became the symbol of the inhumanity of the siege, "the Russians killed 20 of my children and now I am going to kill you." No doubt Putin will say the same thing back again to the Chechens. So the slaughter will go on, with the bodies piling up on either side - bloodied emblems of power politicians' empty posturing, shifting principles and a determination to see political freedom on their terms only.

In such a blinkered and blood-soaked atmosphere al-Qaeda flourishes. The dead of 9/11's Twin Towers and Beslan's School Number One deserve a better epitaph than that.

Posted by: rania

The tragedy in Beslan is a terrible atrocity.

Everyone seems to be condemning the terrorists, but what about what the Russian military did to the Chechens and their children?

Does that not deserve condemnation? Remember the Chechens have no way of winning a war with Russia's military might, when pushed into a corner, this is what human nature does. Not just in Russia but everywhere.

Russia is responsible for the genocide of Chechnya.

Any comments?