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Men being dishonest with Russian women versus Russian "scams"
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Posted by: Donna_pedro

[this thread was split from another thread that was speaking about a Russian Personals, and that Russian women were being asked for their passports when they registered with an agency]...

------ checking their passports (for their name and number),
------Would you explain what is the purpose of checking the passports for names and numbers, please?

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Donna,

Sure, I'll explain...

When you ask for a passport, you are more likely to find someone who has intentions of being honest.

And you also make sure that the person who wants to place an advertisement is real and is who they say they are.

If, for example, there is someone who wants to commit fraud, then they would be less reluctant to allow someone to see their passport.

This helps keep the process more honest and trustworthy.

We check passports of those who we have interviewed, and cannot really check passports if someone just sends a profile by email. But, if the person registers through one of our employees or businesses we work with in Russia or Belarus, then we can check their passport.

Someone might ask why we ask for the passports of women and not of men?...

If a man commits fraud, or commits a crime, then we would have a record of their payment for the Personals membership, and through their email address, which are traceable if based in the U.S.

Of course, we are not expecting or anticipating fraud on either side of the ocean, but... It's good to have some accountability, which makes everyone feel a bit safer in meeting someone who they are communicating with in a distant country...

Khashyar

Posted by: Donna_pedro

Quote:

who wants to place an advertisement is real and is who they say they are.

well, if we are speaking about financial fraud (visa, ticket, etc scams), it is assumed that a woman would try to scam a man, not another way around, right? (Nobody ever head of an american man scamming a russian woman for money.

) What is important for a woman is for her to know that a man tells the truth about his financial situation. Everybody heard stories when men presented pictures of luxury cars and properties as their own, while they were not. If a woman complains she is typically told that she is supposed to love a man regardless of the state of his pocket and if she complains she is "not the type of a RW we are looking for".. Would you consider this a fraud and how can a RW obtain information about her future husband's financial situation? Do you think men would volunteer information like that?

Posted by: gino

she will receive that information when the man files for a k1 or k3 visa. the document is called affidavit of support. on this form the man must list all his assets and tax returns for the last 2 years.
the tax form shows how much money he made over the last 2 years. she must have this information and must bring it to the interview for her marriage visa. Gino

Posted by: Khashyar

Hi Natalia...

Yes... I also believe that a man who is not honest about their financial situation is also not acting ethically, and I don't believe that this is right.

When I mentioned that we would be able to have some information about a man if necessary, I was referring to if he committed a crime like sexual assault or battery.

And I am also referring to Russian women who commit crimes, like fraudulently pursuing a relationship with no intention of beginning a relationship, but only communicating with a man to have him send money.

Other crimes that perhaps are mostly preventable if you ask for a passport, for example, if a Russian agency actually is communicating with a man instead of the woman writing the emails. If you meet a Russian woman in person, and see her passport, then you know that this person is real.

But, I am certainly also concerned men who are not ethical and who are not honest with women.

I think that an owner of a business has to draw the line at legality, and trying to prevent illegal things from taking place.

Of course it would be wonderful to be able to personally screen everyone (both men and women), and to look at their bank accounts, passports, criminal records, etc....

But there are practical limits.

I am trying to be both fair and realistic at the same time.

Thank you for your thoughts and comments, Natalia

Khashyar

Posted by: Khashyar

Gino actually does make a good point that the fiance visa will have all of the financial information there, so before a Russian woman decides to marry a Western man, and before the U.S. Consulate interview, she will have a chance to view her fiance's financial information in the Affidavit of Support...

Khashyar

Posted by: Donna_pedro

gino

Quote:

for a k1 or k3 visa. the document is called affidavit of support

The first time a woman sees this document was when they send her a package with the invitation to the embassy for the interview for K-1. And its a way too late. Imagine, that you have spent (or waste?) a year or more with someone who is not what he says he is, just to be told the truth a few days before the interview. Thats scary!!!

PS And I am not Natalia..Natalia is a friend on mine whose profile is on this site. But I am a woman married to an AM for 3 years. Thank you

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

The United Kingdom fiancee visa procedure asks for details of the man's bank account , his home and his salary and job - if the Consulate doubt the truth of the documents ,the visa will not granted. The visa process should show how much money a man has when the visa interview takes place.

I think guys who lie about thier fianances really make life difficult for the rest of us. I have told my gf that I am an office worker and am NOT rich . I think that the financial situation of a man is important for a woman whether from the fsu or anywhere- it shouldnt be the main motivator but I would expect to be questioned at some stage.

I know on a second date with a woman from the fsu the only question she asked me was - what kind of house do you live in - is it a detached or do you live in a flat ? Simple question - the answer reveals alot about a mans finances without ever looking at a bank account.

Posted by: Donna_pedro

Interesting thing that the general opinion is that to ask such a question directly is not only rude but also is what is called "red flag". It typically causes two types of response 1. She earns $60 herself and she is afraid I am not rich enough for her? 2. She is high-maintenance, materialistic, gold-digger in search of a welthy man. Under some reasons men fool themselves that Russian women's "brand" feature is that they dont care for a man's material status. See, when you date in person, you dont need to ask questions - the "signs" of man's financial status are displayed everywhere - his car,the brand of his watch, neck tie, shirt, shoes,,, the area his house is located in etc.. You dont see all this when you write letters. And its concidered rude to ask. Well, some would ask it anyway, but they are afraid that a man would think that they are gold-diggers.. So what is the proper way? How would you guys react if a woman asked you to send her your tax returns ... lets say... before your first visit? It could save you some money...

Posted by: BradIL

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donna_pedro
[ So what is the proper way? How would you guys react if a woman asked you to send her your tax returns ... lets say... before your first visit?

Absolutely not! Personal financial information is no one's business, IMO, until you're engaged.

I never share financial information with anyone I've dated in the U-S, unless its gotten serious, that is to say, where I've dated them for more than a year, and engagement could be imminent.

Donna, I sense from your post that its somehow fair for RW to get a preview of an AM finances to see if its worth dating him or not.

Am I correct?

Posted by: searcher

I'm not sure that Donna is saying it is fair to do this....

The problem from what I have seen at various places on the internet is that often women are deceived.

They are told by the man they are going to marry that he has an expensive house, car, boat(s), etc....

There are a few instances where the man was so much in debt, had a filthy run down house, etc..

You see to many women it seems very one sided that a man can know many details of her life yet so much about him seem to be a secret.

When a woman fills out the papers for a K-1 the man can see her previous addresses, ex- husband(s), etc.

He also has the opportunity to visit her home, she can not easily do this before agreeingg to marry him.

In this case the men have the upper hand and some deceptive men take advantage of this!

I think she just wants a way for women to get some answers and not to be deceived.

Posted by: gino

yes, i agree with you donna. it is too late because all the emotion and time that is put into a relationship. but also, he should not lie to his g.f. about such things. however, it is never too late to back out of a relationship. although it would be very difficult. gino

Posted by: gino

well dona if you wished you could always do a back ground check on this person? it would show. it cost around $95.00 gino

SSN Verification
Address History
Criminal Records
Asset Search
Business Background
Business Affiliations
Marriage Records
Divorce Records
Lawsuits
Evictions
Small Claims
Judgments & Liens
Federal Lawsuits
Licenses
Bankruptcy Records

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by Donna_pedro
She earns $60 herself and she is afraid I am not rich enough for her?

This is another great example of common but flawwed thinking by WM. You cannot judge a woman from FSU by her salary. You must look at quality of life. It is VERY possible for a woman to leave a better life in Russia making $100 a month, for a worse life in USA/Canada with a man that makes $3200 a month or more. This is an importannt topic to discuss LONG before you get "packet 3" in the mail. I can understand BradIL's apprehention to reveal financial info too early in the relationship, but on the other hand, how can she make a well informed decision as to marry or not? I would say the time to discuss this is at the point when you decide you WILL "pop the question". In my situation I had to force the issue as Liliya was a bit too polite to bring it up, but I thought it was important to get out on the table early, especially because her decision would effect her 4yr old son's life as well.

P.S. - nice to see you on the board here Donna (Jet)

Posted by: Donna_pedro

BradIL

Quote:

Donna, I sense from your post that its somehow fair for RW to get a preview of an AM finances to see if its worth dating him or not.

You are quite sensitive. Thats exactly what I meant. Anything wrong with that? By the way I am married to someone who by no means can be called a wealthy person. I think that most women are not looking for wealth, but for financial stability and material reliability. Yes, there will be women (and there are) who choose a man by the number of digits in his bank account, but I dont think that not providing the information on this matter can reduce the amount of such women, or providing information would increase the amount of gold-diggers. What I sense, that you think that women, if they found out the state of your bank account, would be attracted only to it, but not to your personality. US current political culture had resulted in a lot of men with low self-confidence and self-esteem. I am sure that if you have something to offer to a woman besides money, a good woman will always see it.

Jim_FL

Hi!

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Anything wrong with that?

Yes there is. Its presumptive and nobody's business unless I choose to disclose it.

Further, you indicate this could be a manifestation of low self-esteem or low self-confidence. It doesn't occur from either of these.

Any such request from someone I am dating, as opposed to engaged to, is out of bounds. If a RW wants to qualify/limit her dating partners to certain incomes levels the ladies should state the parameters of what that income range is.

An AM can determine if he wants to proceed with it or not.

In a dating situation I just don't see where anyone believes they are entitled to that information. Who are they? I find it very personal, and anyone requesting such information so early in a relationship to be caddy and rude.

How appropriate would it be for me to confront you with the question 'Have you ever had an abortion' when I just started dating you? I would, of course, might want to consider whether or not your ability to bear children could be compromised.

Eager to hear your response---

Posted by: FlashingEyes

Historically, at least, a gentleman would be expected to state his ability to provide for a woman (ie resources) before the marriage proposal, not after.

Posted by: Donna_pedro

BradIL

Quote:

How appropriate would it be for me to confront you with the question 'Have you ever had an abortion' when I just started dating you? I would, of course, might want to consider whether or not your ability to bear children could be compromised.

Very good point. If a man explains to me that he is VERY concerned about having kids and its on top of his priorities in a marriage, and he wants to be 100% sure that nothing compromises his future wife's ability to have kids, I would consider that he has the right to ask this question and I would give the straight answer to it. If I want a man to respect what is important for me , I will respect what is important for him. Considering that AM are looking for traditional wives (most of them), which implies that a man playes a role of the provider, it is important for a woman to know how stable and reliable her future husband is as a provider. So I guess if both sides are ready to co-operate and respect each others priorities - its as OK to ask about abortions, as it is OK to ask about a man's financial situation.

Posted by: Eric-USA

Hello everyone this will be my first post on this board. I have have been reading various boards for a few months now gathering all the information I can to do decide if and how I will go about seeking an FSU wife.

I do believe that the women have the right to know a man's finances to an extent. Remember, these women are seeking husbands and most will correspond with numerous men and don't have the time to waste on those who can not provide for them and their current/future children. I would also like to point out that the man has the right to know exactly what standard of living the woman expects. This is very important as the information I have read presents a view of western life to Russians that makes many believe the typical westerner lives a lifestyle similar to the extreme top earners.

I feel that the women have the right to know the following:

*Does the man own or rent
*Is the home/apartment/condo big enough for the family and in good repair
*Will they be able to have a standard of living the woman expects - This includes clothes, cars, dining-out, vacations

As long as the man can provide the lifestyle that he states he can I do not feel that the woman is entitled to know to what extent beyond that his financial situation places him.

Posted by: BradIL

From Donna Pedro:

"So I guess if both sides are ready to co-operate and respect each others priorities - its as OK to ask about abortions, as it is OK to ask about a man's financial situation."

After reflecting on this thread it occurs that I suffer from a Western POV that's now conspicuous.

In the past I've disclosed financial information to girls I was dating. I'm not wealthy, but I don't too bad, either. The results were unfortunate, when the girls discussed it freely, and led to their family/friends asking me for loans, gifts, etc. When I said "no" tensions escalated- and I regretted opening my mouth about it.

After the 2nd time it became a firm rule with me, no financials until engaged. I disagree that such sensitive information should be disclose prior to an engagement. That's what an engagement is for- determining compatibility. If the differences are too much you can terminate the engagement, and the relationship if necessary.

But when a relationship develops in a rapid, abbreviated manner, the normal progression of events is compressed. This is what I neglected to see. With a faster pace of events, such requests would seem to be reasonable.

But being from the Midwest USA, personable and friendly, I was raised that personal information stays that way and isn't discussed "out of the house"

Old habits die hard with this bachelor in these brave, new days.

But I vow to you all that I will NEVER ask any woman if she's had an abortion, at least until the 3rd date and 3rd bottle of wine. You see- the slower she moves the easier it is for me to dodge a punch.

---Brad///

Posted by: Clarita

I just wonder why agencies selling russian brides ask for their passports only (by the way, here in metro you can buy any passport or other document very easy). Why they don't ask women to show their blood test and sertificate of vaccination? The country is so wilde and who know what can happen if some decent western gentleman decides to meet her personally!

About abortions - woman can be virgen without sexual experience and of course abortion but not be able have children. And in these cases (if the question of fertility comes) man must be ready to show to her a test of a quality of his sperm first.

Posted by: BradIL

Clarita---

Instead about worrying how about who discloses information "first"... why not schedule an afternoon/evening where you lay out personal/sensitive information on 2 sides of a table, and the couple can leisurely browse over it.

Its more constructive to approach such matters jointly/together rather than worry about who goes "first".

Posted by: Clarita

BradIL
Sure, but men who think that they "buy" a bride want to put all responsibility on a woman.

Posted by: James Riske

I agree with Donna on this one and she makes a good point in that the RW has no real way of telling how well off the man she is meeting with is when he visits. She can not see his car, his home, his social friends, etc. It's easy for men to lie and put on airs that he has money when all he does is work at the 7-11.

Women are not necessarily gold diggers for this, they just want a man who makes a decent living. A well adjusted man who can bring home a good enough paycheck to provide for a family and home. In today's world, I'd guess that at about 100K a year or more. I see nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, if a man of age can not make a competitive living as compared to others in his area, it could be indicative of other problems that he has.

Here's the solution and here's what I plan to do. Why make the fiance visa visit an 'all or nothing'? Since you can get her another fiance visa, why not just use her visit as a way to get to know each other better and have her see your surroundings and level of living? Then visit her again in Russia for a long time and then have her come again on another fiance visa and then marry her.

I may be wrong, but isn't it possible to get more fiance visas? Or would it affect the RW chances of getting another fiance visa with another man in the future?

I plan on taking things very slow with my Russian girlfriend and exchanging mutual visits so there will be no surprises, misunderstandings, or secrets when we marry. I think it's a mistake to marry her without having her stay her for awhile first. More than just one fiance visa visit. Show her exactly what life would be like if you married her, have her experience it and live it and vice versa.

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

Quote:

In today's world, I'd guess that at about 100K a year or more. I see nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, if a man of age can not make a competitive living as compared to others in his area, it could be indicative of other problems that he has.

I have no problems but I earn £ 26000 a year - which is $ 52 , 000 a year - I think jr you make too many generalisations and it is hard to justify your comment that if a man earns less than 100k it is indicative of other problems - this is completely and utterly untrue. In the UK the average salary is $ 52, 000 : I do not know where you derive your numbers from jr but they are not correct and if anything they are fantasy

.

Quote:

Here's the solution and here's what I plan to do. Why make the fiance visa visit an 'all or nothing'? Since you can get her another fiance visa, why not just use her visit as a way to get to know each other better and have her see your surroundings and level of living? Then visit her again in Russia for a long time and then have her come again on another fiance visa and then marry her

jr , the whole purpose of a fiancee visa is to live together as a couple and then to marry - the purpose of a fiancee visa is not to show her your surroundings - that is a tourist visa.

I do not know if you can apply several times for a fiancee visa for the same person - the embassy of your country may set limits on the number of times that a visa can be applied for- Jr you need to email the US embassy to determine whether what you have said is correct because my gut reaction is that a fiancee visa gives a once only lenghth of time to decide whether as a couple you will marry - I do not think the fiancee visa can be used indefinitely as a means to get to know someone.

Rattle

Posted by: wavetossed

I think all you guys who object to finaincial disclosure are forgetting something.

A Russian woman will not know the value of a dollar or pound or euro. She may think that the foreign exchange rate is a good way to judge the value but that doesn't take into account things like income tax and sales tax. She probably has no idea how loans and mortgages work and she probably has never had a bank account. She doesn't know what a cheque is or a credit card.

In my case, when I visited Russia I flew my girlfriend from Ekaterinburg to Moscow, took her to an all-day rock festival, stayed at a luxurious hotel in Moscow, paid for the train back to Siberia, took her to restaurants or pubs every day, bought her a CD-MP3 player worth 2 months salary to her, etc... In other words, for 2 weeks she lived the lifestyle of a wealthy man's wife purely because of the wierd exchange rate situation with Russian rubles at present.

I told her all about my finances, salary, bank balances, savings, rent payments, how much I spend on lunch every day and my 7 day travelcard for the London underground. I wanted to make it clear that I am not a rich person. I have a comfortable salary and a good job and I am very employable should I choose to change jobs. I explained to her what the poverty line is in England (20,000 pounds per year) and in London (30,000 pounds per year). I had also found out the poverty line in Russia but I've forgotten the figure.

With all that information, I think my girlfriend has a more realistic understanding of the economic situation in which I live. Had I not explained all of this and disclosed the figure to her, she would probably be under the illusion that I am far richer than I really am. And when a woman is all by herself, dreaming of her boyfriend, she can easily slip into fantasy and the further those fantasies get from reality, the harder it will be to re-establish a normal relationship when we meet again. It's better to be truthful and honest up front.

Posted by: rob_we

wave
i don´t know the numbers but are you really sure these numbers are right? 30000 pounds is the poverty line in London ????

That seems to me veeeeeeery high

Posted by: wavetossed

I heard the poverty line discussed on a TV program about a year ago. The topic was the huge economic differences between the North and London. Rattlesnake lives in the north and is able to live reasonably well in Manchester on 26000 per year, 6000 above the poverty level. If he lived in London, he would be struggling to get by, probably living in a shared apartment with another roommate also struggling to get by. If he was lucky enough to be a teacher, police officer or similar critical occupation then he would be getting various housing and transportation subsidies because, in London, the salaries of these people are usually at or below the poverty level.

London is an expensive place to live in. I live 45 minutes walk from the financial district in zone 2. I pay 20 pounds per week for my travel pass on the underground system. It would be more if I lived further out in zone 5 or 6. To buy a sandwich and coffee for lunch averages 5 pounds per day.

Posted by: Yakboy

No Rob.. you are right.

Wave does'nt mean poverty line. Thats much lower than 30000 (almost $60000). 30000UKP is well enough to live comfortably and support a family and even own a car. When I'm in real savings mode with belt fully tightened and no frivalous expenses it costs me 200UKP a week (10000UKP per year). I could live cheaper if I shared a flat and didnt drink at all (Massive taxes on Alcohol and Gasoline here)

You can live very well in London for 30000

Ron

Posted by: wavetossed

Well, I pay 180 UKP per week just for rent on my small one bedroom flat in Bethnal Green. The flat is 420 sq. ft. or 39.5 sq. metres which most Americans would probably consider to be tiny. And this is at least average, if not below average, for East London. You must be living near the edge of the city and not commuting in to work in the city. It's admirable that you, a single person, can make ends meet on that amount of money after taxes, but it's got to be at the low end of the scale.

I got the 30,000 figure from a TV show so I don't know how it was calculated but I expect it was based on gross income, not net. And it likely avoided scraping the bottom of the barrel, i.e. they looked at the lifestyles of poor people and drew some kind of line that was high enough to cover nutritious food and some kind of meaningful lifestyle, i.e. television rental and a TV licence, rather than making the line so low that you would have a better life if you were in prison. And they figure out the level assuming that you live that way long term, i.e. replacement costs of clothes, appliances, etc.

I know how little it really takes to live. I've managed quite comfortably on no money at all (except for rent) for months at a time in the summer in Canada. Let the utility bills pile up, eat the dried food in storage supplemented with weeds from the back garden and nearby woods. Don't drive the car anywhere. If you plan ahead when your bank balance is dwindling with no new money coming in, then you can set yourself up to survive for a while with practically no expenses beyond rent. But I don't expect people to consider that to be the poverty level. And I made it through because I had assets to help me. It would not have worked for a full year, let alone a lifetime.

My girlfriend has a clerical job in a hospital in Russia and earns the average wage for hospital workers in Russia according to March 2004 statistics, namely 2000 rubles per month. If she lived in London, she would have a wide choice of clerical/administrative jobs in hospitals which would pay her a salary of 2000 pounds per month. Today, 1 pound is worth 52.5 rubles on the foreign exchange markets.

It is not easy to figure out the value of a currency when you move between countries. I'm Canadian. I spent 1997 in California. In 1999 I loved in Australia for 4 months, then California for 2 months. Then I came to the UK in 2000. Over the course of 4 years I lived with 4 currencies. In the UK my job involved a lot of travel. This was before Euro currency came into circulation. I traveled extensively in France, Belgium and Germany, sometimes staying for weeks at a time. I also travelled in Spain, Holland, Denmark and Sweden as well as the USA and a few trips to Canada. I rarely had less than 4 different currencies in my pocket. Twice I bailed out colleagues that ran out of the right kind of cash while travelling.

My experience is that it takes a lot of effort to really understand a new economy and the value of currency within that economy. The relative prices of everything changes so much. On my girlfriend's Russian salary, she doesn't even earn enough to pay for two weeks commuting on the London underground system. But in Russia, it costs 6 rubles for a ride on a bus or tram. That's .3% of her salary. In the UK a one way ride on the tube to Central London is 2 pounds 20 which is .11% of that 2000 pound salary. Therefore, depending on how you look at it, London transit is either incredibly expensive, or pretty darn cheap.

Posted by: Yakboy

Exactly Wave...
I think also it depends on how you define poverty.
I would say the poverty line is that anything below that line you couldnt afford the basics to live, and keep a roof over your head.

But that all said... The UK is MINDNUMBINGLY expensive compared to most other places in the world.. For instance comparing to the US, the buying power of the UKPound is about parity with the USDollar.. But the Pound is worth two bucks!!
So to an American.. everything costs twice as much!

I'm in Ealing which is the edge of West London. Rent is 110pw for a tiny one bedroom (Including utilities). I don't eat out, so I make my own lunches etc. I earn more... I'm just saving like a bandit for going back home to the US, or even maybe spend six months to a year in the FSU and learn Russian... Who knows. One thing is for sure though... I'd have to have a stupidly huge offer of salary to consider living here permenantly again...

It's difficult for me to imagine what it would be like for someone to come from Russia or Ukraine to London in terms of the cost of everything. 120RRubles for a 50g shot of Vodka??? Yikes!
(that might even be 25g.. not sure)

I think the phrase would be... "You give your Government HOW MUCH???"

Ron

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

I know London is the most expensive place to live and most places in England are expensive . I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment which is valued at £140, 000 but there is hardly room to swing a cat ( What type of house / apartment could I get for $220, 000 in the USA ? Probably alot bigger !!!)( I live in Manchester which is 180 miles north of London ) - why is England so expensive ? Well I can blame many things - first many people in UK do not have a pension and so are using thier property as thier nest egg in old age - this has an effect on house prices. Secondly transportation costs are the most expensive in europe due to the high petrol tax in UK. We pay about 84p for a litre of petrol ( nearly $ 1.20 for a litre ) - this pushes up the price of goods in the shops . Thirdly we have a minimum wage of £ 5 per hour so if you have a business you must put up the price of goods to recoup costs .
Fifthly " snob " factor - people in Uk think that " you get what you
pay for " - ie if its expensive it must be quality goods - yes and no . Car prices in UK are the highest in Europe and if you were to ask a CEO of any of the major car manufacturers to be honest they would say that they view the UK as the GOLDEN APPLE COUNTRY - they know they can sqeeze money from a public who have no choice but to buy from dishonest car dealers ( show me an honest car dealer ? )
Many in the fsu see the west as paradise - the reality is sometimes quite grim.

Posted by: Lostpuppy

Let me also explain Donna...sometimes finances get in the way...does not mean we don't love the women we write...just means we cannot go visit them as often as we'd like..you ask how do i know this? I know this because my thoughts return me back to Helen...
We e-dated...for a long time...for e-dating 2 yrs seems a lifetime...we wanted to get married...i did not save up and did not have at the time my passport...now my heart is also broken...a lifetime adventure missed..because i don't know how to take of my finances...i miss her still..sometimes its not done on purpose...sometimes it just doesn't work out

Posted by: Tatsy

Poor Lostpuppy. I am sorry. What's happened? I hope, everything will be improved still. Good luck.

Posted by: That1Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna_pedro

gino

The first time a woman sees this document was when they send her a package with the invitation to the embassy for the interview for K-1. And its a way too late. Imagine, that you have spent (or waste?) a year or more with someone who is not what he says he is, just to be told the truth a few days before the interview. Thats scary!!!

PS And I am not Natalia..Natalia is a friend on mine whose profile is on this site. But I am a woman married to an AM for 3 years. Thank you

Excellent point Donna,

Although she did not ask for it, I sent Tatiana a copy of one of my pay stubs. I did not want her to be concerned about this. I'm not sure how I would have felt if she did ask for it, but I would like to think it would not offend me. We had already discussed my financial situation, and I was very comfortable in this discussion, and feel that it is necessary to do so. I can understand that it could be taken as overly interested in money, but on the other hand, she does not have the advantage of being able to witness the living conditions her man is in, and like it or not, this is vitally important to the relationship. It would be nice to be able to verify early on (because there are unfortunately, people who are less-than-ethical), but because of the delicacy of the subject, communication difficulties, and so on, I can understand why people hesitate to discuss it. It seems to me that the subject came up quite naturally in our case, and we very easily discussed it. Perhaps both persons should exert a lot of effort to understand why this needs to be communicated and verified, and it may be easier to do.

I want to add that Tatiana also volunteered contact information for people who know her.

Posted by: That1Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattlesnake6979

...but there is hardly room to swing a cat.

And why do you want to swing a cat? LOL

Posted by: That1Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

But I vow to you all that I will NEVER ask any woman if she's had an abortion, at least until the 3rd date and 3rd bottle of wine. You see- the slower she moves the easier it is for me to dodge a punch.

---Brad///

LOL!!!

Posted by: BradIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna_pedro

See, when you date in person, you dont need to ask questions - the "signs" of man's financial status are displayed everywhere - his car,the brand of his watch, neck tie, shirt, shoes,,, the area his house is located in etc..

***MAJOR-MAJOR*** FALLACY!!!

Such a stereotype!!!

Of the gents I know who invested money in the stock market in the last 10-15 years... some of them built IMPRESSIVE accounts... and DID NOT change their standard of living during that time. A few of them went in for 2-seat sport cars... but not much else... EXCEPT for travel... and season tickets for the RAMS and BASEBALL CARDINALS (kind-of-a must thing in STL, y'know). It was funny... girls trolling for millionaires-NEVER knew it-and would dismiss them immediately. *KNUCKLHEADS*... they gotta a millionaire FLIRTING WITH THEM and never knew it. funny-funny-funny!

Dumb is as dumb does! Gotta laugh out of this situation... SEVERAL TIMES!

But a lot of glitz and toys CAN BE an accurate indicator of CREDIT CARD DEBT (what... the average household in the US has more than $9,000 in credit card debt... YIKES!)

Posted by: ham

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradIL

***MAJOR-MAJOR*** FALLACY!!!

Such a stereotype!!!

in the west debt is so widespread & endemic that here big brother ran awareness campaigns because people now use shady financial institution (upto 30% interest rate ) because banks wouldn't lend them a penny.
I remember the late 80's-early 90's albanian crisis, Argentina...here these days major banks are investigated for billionaire frauds against their account/share holders.
So...a new sport car means nothing...he can be some kingpin gone bankrupt three times; be at his 6th out of 98 instalments.
I think this whole "finance" issue ( i posted elsewhere US census figures and the US 2003 inflation adjusted median income was under $25000 ) is bloated by individuals who want to...show off & be cool over the internet : how sad.
Here i have to pay 20% VAT tax + 20% social security tax + tax related to my income bracket (say 30%).
So how much should i be making to have a "sixfigures" income?
at least $350000
And at that point, the income tax bracket would be 50%+, not 30, so i'll have to make nearly $400000.
Who are we kidding?
VAT & social security are paid on the raw turnover, with minor deductions for purchases.
Allow some room for deductions, but still you're past $300000.

Now i can frankly state beyond reasonable doubt that anybody making $300000 raw is not someone lacking attention from the opposite sex, whatever that means...i tell you.

So i think the whole issue is risen by people interested to foster some unrealistic "internet alter ego".
You know, younger, fitter, wealthier...yes, right.
Of course many gullible, unaware FSUWs fall for that rubbish and think that soap operas like Dallas or Falcon Crest are then the truth...

Posted by: Raspberry

When I used to work in Oakland, I used to know guys that would skimp on everything else.....just so they could own a Cadillac. Yeah, having a Caddie would be the first priority for these guys. And for other people, the priority is boats and various hunting/fishing equipment.

So, every guy's priorities are different. I do not own a big-screen TV, nor (surprisingly enough) do I have cable. Just don't watch the telly all that much. But I do own a couple of keyboards, a bass, and a guitar, among other things.

Also don't buy all that many clothes, as I wear uniforms to work. Although I do have a suit and some other dress clothing, the bulk of stuff is jeans, socks, underwear, and jeans. But I know guys that own seven suits.

Possessions may---or may not be an indicator----so it's hard to tell what kind of impression that leaves on a woman. Bottom line is to be yourself, because that's what the lady will have to deal with......truthfully....