Capitalism in post-communist Russia. - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

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Capitalism in post-communist Russia.
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Posted by: dls1223

Hi All,

I'm mostly a lurker here, have been learning quite a lot. Read the thread on CCCP shirts. One of the links was to a site that had various t-shirst, one of which said (in Russian) 'Have you been to McDonald's in Moscow?' I was in Moscow last March for business (first time to Russia) I enjoyed the trip and the folks I met. One evening I wandered down by the Kremlin and stopped at the McDonalds at the Okhotny Ryad shopping center, got some fries and coke (I don't speak Russian so that was an adventure in itself) and ate them outside overlooking the park (Alexander?) and the Kremlin with the WWII (Great Patriotic War) Memorial. The place was crowded with (mostly young) Russians who were also eating McDonald's and it struck me that this would have been impossible 15 years ago. The changes in Russian society in the last decade or so must be huge. How do Russians view capitalism? Do most people prefer it (warts and all) to communism, or would many prefer to go back to a communist state?

Posted by: Jim_FL

Quote:

Originally posted by dls1223
Do most people prefer it (warts and all) to communism, or would many prefer to go back to a communist state?

The communist party is the second largest (by a very small margin) political party in Russia today. That in itself speaks volumes.

Posted by: rattlesnake6979

I think that western american goods are seen as the best things to have but alot of people in Ukraine and Russia are voting with thier feet when it comes to the governance of the economy and they want either a new life in a new country or the means to acquire what most westerners and americans have ie stable incomes for thier familly. In the Ukraine , the government is unable to make drastic market reforms because if it does so it will lose power - the government is not communist but no radical market reforms have been implemented and the govt in Ukraine is paralysed with fear that if they implement reforms they risk the entire economy destabilising even further . The young and those with the brains to leave are leaving to other countries because the market reforms will not be carried out in the forceable future and any reform will only cause more unemployment and further stagnation of the economy plus devaluation of the currency.
In Ukraine , Macdonalds has many restaurants in Kiev and they are always busy but in the remote villages where western symbols of capitalism have yet to to be found , I sense that some would want a return to communism - full employment and better salaries.

Posted by: Jerico

I think the people love capitalism in Russia. Everybodys selling something on all the corners of streets it seems. Possibly it was not like this in Old Communist Russia ,i do not know.
I do know that there is money to be made in Russia for Americans.
I know of a certain business (legal

) that would possibly make me tons of money in Russia. I think about this all the time. Now is the time to do this business but I have not researched this idea totally. I do not know how the government is with foreigners working there as there own bosses. If I was able to do this there in Russia , I know that I could retire in about 6 to 8 years from now with a substantial amount of money. Eventually they will do this there anyway. The trick is to be in the beginning.

Jerry

Posted by: Pin Boy

when i was in odessa last summer, a woman told me that when some people pine for the old days under communism with a stable economy, jobs, pay etc, they are seeing things through the rose colored glasses...she said when people talk like that they are only looking at it from the economic point of view...when people think more deeply she said no one really means that...no one wants to go back to the old days of the secret police and living in fear of your government and in some cases your neighbors who may have a grudge and say to the "authorities" so and so over there said this about that and then one night there's a knock on your door and your hauled away...another woman told me that her uncle make an "anecdote" about the government or some government leader and spent 10 years in jail!!!

regarding the economy, this young woman said, i know things will not improve drastically for my generation, but hopefully in my children's time living standards will improve

did you know...the population of ukraine decreased from approx 52 million to almost 48 million in the last 10-15 years?

you can see how some people can sell their souls and resort to scamming...of course, this is no justification and i don't condone this...

looking back on my three trips to ukraine, i saw a country with a seriously crumbling infrastructure (the US has serious problems with this as well, but not to the extent)...i saw a country that in my humble opinion is going to get a bit worse before it gets better...god bless 'em and thank god i have the life i do. when i was there in the winter, the bleakness was just so magnified by the cloudy days and the ugly high rise apartments that in some cases looked like they were just going to topple to the ground.

and my ex-gf really blew her chance... but her choice was to sell her soul for a little bit of money and when she's a little older and her looks are fading and she's still standing on her feet at work 10-12 hours a day and waking up to dirt and traffic noise and vehicle exhaust coming into her apartment window living behind a locked door in a two room flat when she could have awakened to fresh air and the sounds of birds outside the window where you can leave your house unlocked without fear, maybe, just maybe she'll crack and feel shame and remorse for her sinful actions and for the opportunity she threw away for herself and her young daughter...

i digress, but boy does it feel good to get that off my chest!

pin boy

Posted by: Jim_FL

Jerico,

You should probably do a LOT more research before embarking on any business ventures in Russia. A few tidbits to get you started:
Were you aware that if you pay all taxes the law requires of businesses, it works out to roughly 118% of your gross reciepts? (yes, it would cost you $1.18 for every $1.00 you make - for Russian citizens. As an outsider, your tax may be substantially higher

)

Were you also aware of "the roof"? It will be paid, or you will be out of business post haste.

Posted by: Jerico

Jim,
Heh , I know they charge you big taxes. Like I said , i am just speculating but there has got to be a way to work it otherwise no one would work there if they were not making money

Posted by: Castlestormer

Most of the old Russians I know pine for the "good ol' days of communism". They talk about the absence of street walkers, homeless, etc. under communist rule. My Russian professor wishes they would ditch Putin and get another strong Stalin-like man in there to run the country. The grass is always greener, isn't it? And the past was always better in our memories.

FYI: Of the top 10 revenue producing Mc Donalds restaurants in the world, 7 of them are in Russia. That statistic blows me away seeing the statistics about average income in Russia.

Posted by: dls1223

Quote:

Originally posted by Castlestormer
FYI: Of the top 10 revenue producing Mc Donalds restaurants in the world, 7 of them are in Russia. That statistic blows me away seeing the statistics about average income in Russia.

I bought a small fry and small coke (and it only took three Russian girls, two employees and one customer, to help me order!). Cost was around 50 rubles (exchange rate was about 28 rubles/dollar), so not quite $2. Not much until you realize that $5/hr ($6-7/hr for an engineer such as myself) would be good pay in Moscow. Going to McDonald's was the Big Date Place for many of the young Russians. The people I met were nice, they have my sympathy.

Posted by: sidney

About 5 years ago I was walking with a GF near the center of Moscow. We saw a rally some distance away with 100+ older people quite vocal and with some banners. I questioned what was going on and was told it was a rally for communism. She explained that some of the older people longed for the good old days of communism but they were of a minority. The last thing she wanted was to put me, an american, in danger of this rally so we steered clear.
Sid