Misunderstanding (Language and cultural differences) - Russian Ukrainian Belarus Travel Music Woman Dating News

	The Russian Meeting Place: A place to meet people and talk about all things Russian... International Discussions about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Travel, Music, Russian News, Ukrainian culture, Belarusian Dating, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Kiev and other intelligent topics about life in the former Soviet Union.

Pages: 1

Misunderstanding (Language and cultural differences)
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: searcher

I find that sometimes it is difficult to explain my thoughts or to simply ask a question.

Many times my questions are intended to be simply questions without implying any type of indescretion or alterior motive, etc.

It seems that often a question which would seem innocent (and would elicit an explaination) by a English speaking person can cause a great deal of misunderstanding among a non English speaking person.

Are there any "rules" or "guidelines" as to what is and what isn't acceptable to ask or even how a question may be offensive.

I'm trying not ot go into too many detail about the question I asked but it was taken greatly out of proportion.

While it made her angry, it made me a bit angry as well because this problem seems to happen occasionally.

I ask a question and another meaning is taken from what I intended.

Alright, I guess I must give more details.

I simply asked about eating raw fish and that it may possibly contain parasites.

Now, sushi is very common here in Los Angeles. At one time it was a problem, from what I understand, because it wasn't treated properly (by freezing it at a certain temperature to kill the parasites). I had many of my former coworkers go to places which served sushi.

Now, when I asked about this, it made her furious!

She said that she doesn't eat raw fish and she assumed that I was implying that she had parasites!

In someways, I get tired of the misunderstandings but what can I do?

Posted by: searcher

True,

I was just asking her because I was wondering about how commom raw fish was in the diets of people there.

In Los Angeles there are many, many, many Sushi restaurants but people don't think about the possible problems.

Back in 1990 or so, many of my former coworkers would go to sushi places for lunch. I went about 3 times to try it but I heard about possible problems and I stopped.

Even now, supposedly freezing the fish at a certain temperature is supposed to kill the parasites but the discovered it doesn't work.

It just pains me that she feels that I imply bad things about her and things aren't looking too good right now. I don't want to loose her over misunderstandings or some wrong perception.

I'm hurting right now and I hope she accept my apology

Posted by: searcher

Yes, she is flambouyant... good point.

I already sent some emails explaining this...

I tried calling her on the phone this morning and she listened but didn't understand everything.

I'm just suprised this triggered this type of response. If I had been asked the same question, I would have just answered "yes" or "no".

I have sometimes asked a few personal questions, to get to know her better, and sometimes she thought I was implying things.

They were simply questions and nothing more...

I don't think there is anything else going on but sometimes it is a little difficult for me to get an answer from her. She sometimes just contains what is bothering her and that is something I have asked her about before. I told her if there is a problem, tell me. If there is a question just ask. I am not easily offended and assume all questions are serious.

Posted by: gino

hey searcher, maybe she took offense to it because she thinks that you think she has parrasites? i have the same problem with my girlfriend from time to time. it is usually a misunderstanding.
but look at it from her side. what if you owned a dog and she asked you if you had fleas in your home? would you not take offense to some degree? just explain your reason for asking her the question. gino

Posted by: searcher

Hey Gino,

I understand... me personally I don't take offense to those types of questions I just simply answer them or explain the circumstances.

For example, if I had a dog I would explain that I don't keep my dog indoors and that it is often treated for fleas.

I did send her an email directly and i'm having another one translated to send to her.

She feels that i've asked to many inappropriate questions.

I do feel a bit angry because she takes things out of context sometimes. She assumes my questions are implications.

On one hand I feel a great loss, on the other hand I feel a bit angry too because of her assumptions.

Also, I have told her in the past to simply talk to me if there is a misunderstanding or something doesn't seem right.

Sometimes, it is difficult to determine what is appropriate and what is inappropriate with her.

Posted by: Laters

Quote:

Sometimes, it is difficult to determine what is appropriate and what is inappropriate with her.

This only comes with time. It's a little reminder of how little you both know each other, even though you might think otherwise. Patience.

Quote:

I understand... me personally I don't take offense to those types of questions I just simply answer them or explain the circumstances.

For example, if I had a dog I would explain that I don't keep my dog indoors and that it is often treated for fleas.

You are two different people. It may seem perfectly normal to you to ask or answer these questions but not for her. Again, I think it's all just you guys trying to figure each other out. Prepare yourself for more stumbling.

Posted by: ulughbek

Searcher,

sorry to hear about your situation.

One time I made a joke based on an (incorrect) assumption about my fiancee's attitude about something. It turned out to be a very big deal and she got very upset.

There are a lot of things you have to do in these situations. Apologize a lot. Let her know that it is a cultural difference - that you never intended to hurt her, but if she doesn't tell you HOW it offended her, then you'll never be able to correct it. Make a lot of extra effort to imagine her side of things, and never make assumptions about what is OK for her.

Learning for sure what she thinks about many things is part of creating a real relationship. But there may be some areas/topics that you will have to wait to discuss in person, so you can understand the nonverbal signs that you may need to navigate treacherous waters.

Be patient and work things through. If she cannot forgive you for this one incident, that seems oversensitve to me. She also has to get used to your style of communication if your relationship is going to last. Hopefully you'll be able to find the middle ground.

Posted by: searcher

Hi,

Well I just finished talking to her a little while ago. At least she is ralking to me again.

I did apologize a lot and I told her that some of it was due to cultural differences.

At first, she said cultural difference is an excuse people for something that doesn't exist.

So, I had to give her some examples of cultural differences. She didn't agrue about that.

I am tempted to start a thread titled American Culture. People seem to think that there isn't an American culture but I disagree, it is just much different than European culture.

Posted by: Michael Blue

Glad things are looking better!

Every locale has its own culture, regardless of what anyone says.
Even in the US, there are MANY cultures, and not just immigrant cultures, etc.

In many larger cities, there are certain "hang-outs" (usually clubs or bars, sometimes restaurants) that become "the place to be" in that town. I don't mean the high-dollar 2 year waiting list, I mean the place everyone likes to go.
Go visit this place in each town, and you'll notice differences...they all speak English, (our Americanized version of it, anyway) but there are different accents. Boston, Chicago, Minnesota, Louisiana, Texas, Washington...none of them sound the same. Even just from the Peoria area to Chicago (about a 2 hour drive) ther is a noticable differene in the accent many of the people who've been there all their lives.
There are also different topics of normal conversation, in Boston, the Red Sox are extremely popular, Californians may tend to talk politics, Midwesterners talk a lot about our ever-changing weather (give it a minute, it's gonna change again!), and so on.
There are some minor changes in attire as well, and hair styles, slang, etc...

I would imagine a country as large as Russia, and especially when you include the other FSU nations, has every bit as diverse a culture as ours, if not much more so.

Learning the ropes in a whole new place, especially through essentially only one person, and largely via email and phone, is going to be very tenuous, by definition. "It's gonna take patience and time, to do it right."

(George Harrison).

Posted by: Jill

Yes, I don't think this is so much a cultural difference. In general, Russians tend to be MORE open than Americans about a lot of things (in general I know that I am more likely to be offended than to offend--maybe it's women who tend to be more easily offended?).

Sushi is actually very popular in Russia now--but only in big cities such as Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. Maybe it hasn't reached Omsk yet.

Although, maybe she was offended becuase she thought that you were indicating "raw fish" not as sushi, but as some kind of thing "poor, uncivilized peasants" might eat (and, by extensive, her)? If she is not familiar with sushi, this might be the case. Sort of like asking do you have electricity and running water? But it is still strange.

And there are lots of parasites. There's giardia (or however you spell it) in the water in a lot of places. Food poisoning is much more common than in the States. I NEVER had food poisoning in the States, and I've had it several times here. And I don't even eat meat! You have to be VERY careful about where you buy food and how you prepare it. And you have to be careful to filter and/or boil tap water.

Quote:

At first, she said cultural difference is an excuse people for something that doesn't exist.

This I do not agree with. There most certainly ARE cultural differences and, as a result, international relationships/marrriages are hard even under the best of circumstances. I remember when my husband and I got married, a friend of mine (American) came to our wedding with his (Ukrainian) wife. They have been married almost 8 years. At one point the four of us went outside to get some fresh air. We started talking and you know, they said that even after 7+ years of marriage they still have cultural misunderstandings--fewer than they used to of course, but they still arise from time to time. And probably always will. And this couple has lived together in both Ukraine and the US (so they are both familiar with each others culture) and both speak both Russian and English. And STILL!!! And my husband and I have misunderstanding even though I've lived in the FSU for almost 10 years (and know the culture fairly well) and speak fluent Russian. And still sometimes we misinterpret each other.

So it's not easy and don't expect it to ever be easy (easier, yes, but easy, no). But you know what? If you've found the right person, it's worth it

You will both need a lot of patience. Good luck to you!

Posted by: OKC Adonis

I would say that is a good thing Aqua. Extraordinarily good communication skills?

Posted by: Jill

I think it has a lot to do with personality types. If people are easy going, relaxed, and patient by nature they will have fewer problems, cultural and otherwise. They will just be able to take the differences in stride. My husband and I, however, both tend to have a stubborn streak and can both be a little hot headed at times. As a result, sometimes when differences in mentality and/or habit arise, we can get a little impatient with each other. hence the troubles with cultural differences.

I believe there are always going to be cultural differences--the key is how you deal with them.

Posted by: Dennis/Natasha

Quote:

Originally posted by Jill
I think it has a lot to do with personality types. If people are easy going, relaxed, and patient by nature they will have fewer problems, cultural and otherwise. They will just be able to take the differences in stride. My husband and I, however, both tend to have a stubborn streak and can both be a little hot headed at times. As a result, sometimes when differences in mentality and/or habit arise, we can get a little impatient with each other. hence the troubles with cultural differences.

I believe there are always going to be cultural differences--the key is how you deal with them.

Natasha and I are also stubborn and even unreasonably hot headed at times and I think you are right on target.

Posted by: neil277

Hello Panel,

I don't eat fish but only once i eat Sushi i did not like, but i agree with Dennis/ Natasha 110% with what they say, please don't take offence Searcher i feel you are very nice guy but perhaps you are trying to much and it comes accross you are asking to many questions and this lady is becoming very upset.

Meeting someone who you click with is very hard anyone can meet a lady but meeting your soul mate is the hardest.

I could be wrong perhaps a different lady will be better for you who can read your mind and understand the way you think.

In long distance relationships there has to be trust or it wont work and i feel this lady is not for you by what you have said.

Regards,

Neil

Posted by: rob_we

Hey everybody,

I think this thread is one of the most interresting and useful ones here, even to people who are starting something multicultural or intend to do so

I think its so basic and yet so true and one of the most underestimated things that small simple misunderstandings can harm infuence change or poison almost any relationship but definitely easily those who have a language and cultural diference!

I live together with a wonderful russian lady that i love very much.
We are together since about one year and comunicate in english.
I am german ....

So we both speak a foreign language. Because both of us are quite ok in this language, (actually hers is better than mine) we get along very well communicationwise and in general.

Still it is not our native language! And we had different lives in different cultures!

..and here it starts to get complicated easily.

a simple joke can end in something dramatic, "normal" behavior seen by one side can be an offence to the other side.

Unexpressed expectaions can become a pile of emotional dept as easy as the little things in life that you don´t like but "swallow" for harmony´s sake.

Of course this is true for any relationship but especially for a multi culti-language relationaship.

So especially here you have to be aware of the fact that to build up something solid requires an extreme amout of understanding, dedication and "will to achieve" from both sides. Pride and justification will definitely lead to a total desaster.

To my opinion it is more true here than anywhere else, that both can be right with total oposite positions.

From my point of view when you marry an "alien" you have to answer not only "do you want to marry this person" but also all questions below with a yes, to be able to live a life with an "alien" partner successfully!

1; Can you surrender in a discussion about a topic you are sure
you are right about, without bad feelings?

2; Are you able to think about things from a different point of view, and accept things that you consider to be "funny" or ridiculous as serious points?

3; Are you willing to change some things in your life for someone you love? (I talk about small but serious daily things here!)

4; Are you interested in your partners views of the "world" and can accept something that is "against your own view"?

5; Can you accept criticism on points that you consider as "problematic to be adressed" about you or your personal life?

6; Are you aware of the amount of work, that will follow after falling in love and the easy-going part with an "alien" partner and are you sure you want to and will be able to handle this?

So everyone approaching the idea of getting aquired with any foreinger (of his mental and social level otherwise it won´t work anyway) should be able to answer this with 6 yesses!

Then it might work out

))

Posted by: searcher

Wow!!!!!

This is an old thread of mine......

Well many of those issues have been resolved sometime ago.

Neil,
Thanks for your concern. At that time I considered the same thing but actually we have so much in common the good out weighs the bad.

Posted by: Joey

Hey to all! I know from my own experience that cultural differences often lead to misunderstandings and quarrels and so on and so forth. The thing is that people have different social backgrounds as well as various traditions and customs. This is one of the reasons of a cultural shock that may srike you while you're traveling abroad. Suffice it to mention the difference between the Western and the Oriental cultures. At the same time there is a common scope of cultural info shared by people of different nationalities and social levels. That is, for instance, classical literature and music known all over the world that help us to start a conversation with a foreigner or just a newcomer or a guest. Starting a conversation is only the first step, of course, but it is really very important for we usually get an idea of a person after a five-minute talk already. It follows that sharing the same knowledge helps people get to know each other better. They may always apply to the familiar subjects and share the associations evoked by this or that novel or a song and it all contributes to mutual understanding. I once browsed through a dating directory and i came to the conclusion that marriages between people of different cultures are not rare and i figure that the number of such marriages constantly increases.

Posted by: Alinka

Being married to or living with a person of another culture and language might be more interesting in the long run but there needs to be a common agreement among the two to not look down on the culture of one another.

Language can become a problem, even if the knowledge of each others?mother tongues is quite advanced.

Personally I find the world wide trend towards mixed-marriages very positive.
However, not everybody is prepared to deal with the particular challenges that his supposes.

Best,
Alinka

"Love is a complicated path and that path can lead us up to heaven or hurl us down into hell."
http://www.warriorofthelight.com
http://www.paulocoelho.com

Posted by: Jutman

Hmm

Its a cliassic situation, where english talking people think its the same around the world.

I have lost the link to a homepage, expressing the most common euro-english translations mistakes.

An example I remember:

A sporty body - atlectic body

Its not a big problem to guess the variant, but there is a difference.

A basic rule, is to explain all new issue in the beginning, and when a common understaning is made, you can do it from there.

In searchers situation, he shoudl have ask like this:

- You know in Japan, they eat fish raw at restuarant. Do you do the same in Russia?

Posted by: tracy

Russian's sure do eat raw fish or as my wife Ellina used to say special fish. What she meant by that, fish was salted or oil added or some type of preservative. They have many different types of raw preserved fish. The first raw fish I ever eat was on a Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Volgograd. It was raw Salmon, I asked Ellina if it was raw fish because I had never seen such a red piece of meat before. She said it was special fish, like we were very lucky to recieve it . For me I was very apprehesive to eat it, with visions of "Airplane" the movie flashing through my mind. So I tried to clarify if this really raw fish, and she would just say yes its special fish. This went on for a few minutes and there was begining to become some tension, I really affraid of getting sick in a foriegn country, but finally I figured what the heck when in Rome, also I didn't want to put up a fuss when just 3 hours earlier was our first physical meeting. I learned later that she didn't understand the word "raw". There are certainly missunderstandings caused by langauge and culture. Also I have found not to underestimate Ellina's pride in her country even if she criticize it, I don't dare. She will take any criticism as a personnel attack and she seems to feel personnely responcible for problems in the country. This has been our only major cultural misunderstanding. I havn't ever come across such a patriotic feelings in people, In Canada we don't flag wave much.

Posted by: inlove

Russians don't eat raw fish in the same sense as japanese do, but they do it cured fish, or dry fish that went through salt preservation.

Posted by: Alinka

I really believe that people of different cultures need to know each other for a long time and need to have an honest interest in learning a each other?s language and customs before they may decide to marry. It really takes a lot of time and patience to get a clue about the each other?s "identity", apart from the self-understanding that is characteristic for every individual.
I would never underestimate the huge challenge a mixed marriage supposes.

"There is no such thing as a strange world, only a new one." http://www.warriorofthelight.com
http://www.paulocoelho.com

Posted by: tracy

I agree Alinka, I was fortunate that I could go to Russia and take a lot of time getting to know Ellina before we married, a total of 6 months. I think it mostly boils down to trust. If you don't jump to conclusions and assume what the other person said was in bad spirit, instead assume what was said probly is just a misunderstanding, 95% of the time thats the case. A good thing to remember is Russian schools teach British, English (If that makes sense) so American english isn't a perfect fit. The use of analogies don't work well either like, " don't beat around the bush" or "as the crow flies". I didn't realize how many I use in a day until I lived in Russia and received a blank look from Ellina when I used one.

Posted by: Pin Boy

tracy, those expressions of speech are called idioms (or expressions) not analogies...but yes, we speak in idioms almost constantly and don't even realize it.

i teach english as a second language and am mindful of not using idioms with my students as a way of communicating...we do study idioms and many of the students kick a real kick out of them and trying to use them in context...idioms are fun to teach and it would be fun to teach your wife some

pin boy

Posted by: Texas Proud

Hey Guys and Gals....

I will throw in my two cents as I have seen this a couple of times already and do not like it....

My problem is that for SOME reason SOME of the women get insulted easily... and I ask myself why? Why would the first thing you do is jump to the worst conclusion that the one who is trying to 'date' you is insulting you? It seems there is something else going on here besides a slight misunderstanding....

I have been had women tell me that I have 'biting words'... I am not trying to insult her, so she is reading something into my sentence that I am not trying to put there... so, why does she not just say that the meaning she reads is not good and please clarify? That is what I do if I read something 'bad' into a sentence.... and why is she so MAD that she decides to stop talking to you? To me, this is a BAD sign!!! It means she will be doing this when you are married instead of calmly talking through the situation and coming to a real understanding....

I am sorry to say that I would stop writing to her as it is a bad sign how she is handling this misunderstanding...

Posted by: sidney

Years ago in Kiev I met a student that was studying them as part of her english. Many of the ones listed in her text book were not used in america. We did have a good discussion of many different ones. It was an enjoyable time teaching something we take for granted.
Sid

Posted by: Jutman

Quote:

My problem is that for SOME reason SOME of the women get insulted easily... and I ask myself why?

Its culture.

- I lve i a country where sarcasm or ironi is very used. I have read and 1st hand experienced, that Russia has simular in their language.
But where in my country, you can so you are SOOOOO 'stupid, meaning witha smile and is more a tease. In Russia is not a tease.
They have laerned that when you say something, you mean it.

So the question is: can you learn that!! and accept that in a relationship. (think about what you say, before you say it). However if she loves you, will not saty angry at you for long time., like 5-15 minuts.

Posted by: Texas Proud

Quote:

Originally posted by Jutman

So the question is: can you learn that!! and accept that in a relationship. (think about what you say, before you say it). However if she loves you, will not saty angry at you for long time., like 5-15 minuts.

Jutman... I understand what you are saying... and I am not writing that 'you are stupid' with a smiley... I am just writing normal...

And as I said, why do they jump to the worst possible meaning and 'stop talking to you'? Yes, I understand that there are a lot of differences and that it will take a lot of work, just like any relationship... BUT, that is a two way street.

I can not tell you how many times I have been told that I should be writing to only ONE lady... it seems that they think you are exclusive with the first letter. Why? I have had one that said I was too 'frank'!! Well, if I am to get married to a woman she should know a LOT about me... and that means I will be frank. I am worried that these women think we ARE a knight in shining armour and will sweep them off their feet and everything will be perfect.. when anything come across to change this you are history...

But, like someone said, all you have to do is find one

I hope to visit a lady soon and see how the face to face meeting goes... so far the letters and phone conversations have gone good, but some language problems... but not like the one mentioned here..

Rant over

Posted by: Alinka

Jutman,

I perfectly relate to your statement. Actually not from a relationship-experience but as a general experience in different countries.
In the Czech Republic people love black humor and are sarcastic in every second sentence when they are in a good mood.
In Austria however people will take it very bad if a person speaks with this kind of humor. People get offended for reasons that are no reasons at all but due to a culturally preset interpretation of words and behaviours.
When I think how much "success" I have had with my kind of humor in the Czech Republic and how it does not find the same applause in Austria, I become aware how much depends on one s knowledge of cultural details.
Knowing to use "language" with people in accordance with their origin truely is a "soft skill" that can make all the difference.

"Seize every opportunity in life, because once opportunities pass, they take a long time to return." http://www.warriorofthelight.com
http://www.paulocoelho.com