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Back from Ukraine...
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Posted by: Aaron2

Well, guys (and ladies), I returned on Monday from my week-long trip to Ukraine to visit my friend, Tamila. Frankly, I'm not sure how it went. For one thing, Tamila's English isn't that great, and neither is my Russian. So we had trouble communicating at times, which was clearly a source of frustration for her.

For another, I was surprised at how, um, chaste the whole experience was, for lack of a better word. Even though she strongly hinted that she wanted some physical intimacy during our visit, it didn't turn out that way. In fact, we didn't even kiss each other on the lips. I can't figure out if she just doesn't like me, or this is how she prefers to conduct a first meeting.

I got the very strong impression that she regarded our first meeting -- even though it lasted a week -- as one, long "first date." So the usual rules about first dates, including no kissing, were in force. I also learned that she comes from a very strict background. She described her mom as "very religious." In fact, her mom even called her the first night I was there, and told Tamila that she didn't want her staying out with me any later than 8:00 p.m. LOL! Anyway, all of this is new to me.

On the plus side, Tamila did take me to meet her mother (dad was working in a neighboring village). The woman at the agency -- who was terrifically helpful, by the way -- called this is a "very important step," and said that few women in her experience take their American boyfriends to meet mama on the first meeting. So I was encouraged by that.

I haven't written to Tamila yet. Through the interpreter, Tamila told me that she wouldn't really know how she felt until after I left. Taking that statement at face value (which seems odd to me), I want to give her a week before I write her and ask her to tell me what she's thinking and feeling.

At the end of the day, even though I'll be disappointed if Tamila says that she doesn't wish to continue the relationship, it was still a fantastic experience. I truly enjoyed my trip and experienced lots of new things. I won't forget it anytime soon! And I certainly want to go back. There are thousands of other women in that country, and I'd like to think one of them is waiting for me, even if it isn't Tamila.

BTW, I kept a "diary" of sorts when I was there. I sent e-mails to myself from my Blackberry. I may post a couple of them. My experience at mama's house is definitely worth sharing, and some other funny things happened, too, which I might share.

If you have any thoughts on my experience -- that is, if you can give me some insight based on what I've described -- fire away. I'd love to hear from the "veterans."

Aaron

Posted by: Texas Proud

Aaron...

First, how old are you and her? If she is very young, she just might not be a lady that sleep with 'anybody'... (yes, you are still anybody since this was your first meeting)... but I am surprised that there was not any kissing... however, thinking back with my first visit with a Ukraine gal... she did not want to kiss much either... I think they have it in their head that this is step one and there is not stopping going all the way.... so don't even do step 1....

You should write to her now that you are back and tell her your feeling, or at least you are back home safe and had a good time... if you do not, she will think you are ignoring her...

Good luck with your search...

Posted by: GoingToRussia

All sounds good Aaron. I agree with Texas, you should write her as soon as possible if you wish to continue this relationship.

Good luck and safe travels!

Posted by: EasyTarget

Write her a good email this weekend. Make sure to thank her for introducing you to her family, showing you around, etc....

HOWEVER....having been in the situation before, I would guess that she won't want to continue the relationship, but don't give up hope; maybe it was her first time meeting a foreigner and she didn't know exactly how to act.

Here is hoping things will proceed if not with T, with somebody else.

Please share trip report details, impressions of the country, culture, etc... always interesting to read.

Posted by: Big wheel

send her a e-mail. I'm sure she is waiting for one. Or even a call. Good luck. in your way to finding the ONE. And let us know. I remember my first meeting with Sveta's parents. It was a odd one. Her mom made us breakfast and we had a bottle on vodka that I pick up at the airport and had a great time. I bit different experience than yours.

Can i ask where about did you go?

Posted by: dagpop

Glad you had a good experience on you trip. I hope thing work out with your gal. You do need to write her and see how she feels.

Posted by: Dave1

Aaron,
Call or write that woman NOW! I think you are right about her considering the whole thing a first date. I had a very similar experience with my meeting in Ukraine last week. I have written and spoken to my lady several times in the week I have been back, and things seem to be progressing. I looked at it as 96 waking hours together (approximately equivalent to 19 "normal" dates), but my lady explained that to her we have only met one week. Don't give up without talking to her.

Posted by: Aaron2

Hey guys, thanks for the good advice -- keep it coming!

I just took the time to write Tamila a very nice e-mail telling her how I feel about her, and asking her to share her thoughts on our meeting. Sounds like Dave and I had a similar experience, so I guess I'm not ready to give up hope just yet.

Anyway, to answer a couple of questions that were asked:

-- I'm 40, and Tamila's 24, almost 25. Incidentally, her profile said she's 6'0", but she's more like 6'1". When we met at the airport, she was wearing high heels, which made her literally three or four inches taller than me! LOL! But hanging out with her was awesome. She's really beautiful and has some of the longest legs you've ever seen. Guys were checking her out everywhere we went, so it was quite an ego boost to walk around with her on my arm.

-- Tamila lives in Poltava. We spent most of our time there, though we also went to her parents' village, the name of which I don't remember. It was a very, very rural area. Later, I'll post my diary entry from that day describing the ride out there -- which was miserable -- and the time I spent there. It was a culture shock!

Aaron

Posted by: sidney

For many of us the first trip is culture shock. I feel this can also be an advantage. I look forward to the time when we are able to send our son to grandma in the ukraine. Hopefully he will better understand that he can't have every little thing he wants.
Sid

Posted by: Texas Proud

Aaron...

I think the age difference was possibly a problem... you never know until later... some it is, some it is not... as someone else said, more than likely she never had another foreign guy there and did not want to be used by a 'sex tourist'... and she might not be that experienced.... some there are like some here... jump in bed with anybody... others are like others here... 'save' themselves.... or only have one or two partners...

SO, write, call and see where it goes... good luck...

Posted by: blucatz

What is with all these people going all the way over to Ukraine/Russia and not even getting a kiss? Do you not have the proper techniques to "Woo" a woman or what? I'm sorry, you spend a week with a woman, thats 7 dates, not one long date. You can't tell me that if you dated a woman from your own country you would not be expecting at least a kiss within the first if not 2nd date. Don't tell me about cultural difference or that they are just being "gentlemanly" cause thats bull and everyone knows it. There is something allot more deeper going on here. She's just a woman like women all over the world, they will know very quickly if you are the one for them or not. So, you spend a week with them or sometimes longer and no kiss, I would think you were not the one for them and maybe should look elsewhere. Now don't get me wrong, Im not talking about having sex with the woman on the first meeting, this is just a kiss, something a few people here can't seem to get.

Posted by: goforit

Sounds like she was being polite, unless there is a religious cultural reserve going on here. I guess you will know soon enough. By the way, always write immediately, even if a woman tells you otherwise.

Posted by: Spakoyna

Sorry to disagree! I spent 2 + 1/2 weeks with my wife the 1st time we met. A peck here and a peck there was it! We even slept in the same bed the last half of our time together.Our wonderful brotheren before us has left a wonderful rep for us. I could have probably pushed the issue ...probably did a bit...but who wants a gal that will jump on a 1st meeting???? I don't!

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

What is with all these people going all the way over to Ukraine/Russia and not even getting a kiss? Do you not have the proper techniques to "Woo" a woman or what? I'm sorry, you spend a week with a woman, thats 7 dates, not one long date. You can't tell me that if you dated a woman from your own country you would not be expecting at least a kiss within the first if not 2nd date. Don't tell me about cultural difference or that they are just being "gentlemanly" cause thats bull and everyone knows it. There is something allot more deeper going on here. She's just a woman like women all over the world, they will know very quickly if you are the one for them or not. So, you spend a week with them or sometimes longer and no kiss, I would think you were not the one for them and maybe should look elsewhere. Now don't get me wrong, Im not talking about having sex with the woman on the first meeting, this is just a kiss, something a few people here can't seem to get.

Posted by: Dave1

I am glad to read your post Spakoyna! Like the original poster, I had (and continue to have) some worries about the lack of physical contact, even though my lady assures me that there are possibilities. In my case the lady is much closer to my age and has never been married. To Blucatz, I submit that even though to a man 16 hours per day together x 6 days=96 hours= approximately 19 "normal" dates, a lady might view it as only knowing you for a week (regardless of how long you have been writing and talking on the phone), and she might not want to be thought of as a woman who kisses a man she has known for only a week. There is validity to the idea that just as Western Men are looking out for scams, gtg's, etc, some FSU women are cautious about being victimized by a sex tourist. A gentleman doesn't force himself on a lady, and the more insistent he becomes, the more he looks like a sex tourist. Also, some women are simply more reserved than others.

Posted by: Raspberry

It is interesting to hear about meeting in the village....and it is somewhat common for a person to work in another village, or more likely, in the big city, due to lack of work in some villages.

Gives me kind of what to expect, if and when I ever meet with the "Sumy" girl......who also lives in a village, and also has a large age difference.

First time I've heard the name "Tamila"....is that her proper name, or is it a nickname?

Posted by: Texas Proud

Blu...

I disagree with you also.... as I said.. my first gal was not to romantic during our first week... and I was thinking the same thing... not even a kiss.. but as I said, I think her view (she WAS married) was that if a man kissed her... it always led to sex... so she was 'programmed' not to even kiss...

Now, this lady is much younger.... so I do not know... but she is from the country, not the city... maybe even still a virgin (yes, there are still some at that age)....

And she still might have been thinking that he was there just for sex... so the second trip (if it happens) will be the telling meeting...

Also, she might be leading him on like (dang, can't remember the guy)... but her body might be to 'good' for him... but from what I have read... I would not think this is the way it will go down.... I still am on the immature side...

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

What is with all these people going all the way over to Ukraine/Russia and not even getting a kiss? Do you not have the proper techniques to "Woo" a woman or what?

Dude, the number of women I've slept with is so embarrassingly high, I will never tell another woman about it (made that mistake with my ex-wife). I know how to "woo" -- by which I assume you mean "seduce" -- a woman.

But here, I was dealing with a woman who, admittedly, I barely knew, in a foreign country, who obviously had some reservations about physical contact -- for reasons that I may or may not fully understand. So I respected her wishes. Period.

This is a woman that I'm considering as a potential spouse. Why would I jeopardize my chances of earning her trust just to get some short-term physical satisfaction? It just wasn't worth it.

On the other hand, maybe you're right. Maybe she just doesn't like me, and that's okay, too. We'll just have to wait and see.

Aaron

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

First time I've heard the name "Tamila"....is that her proper name, or is it a nickname?

Yes, that's her given name. I asked her about, and she said it's fairly unusual. Though she's not the only Tamila I've seen on Russian Love Match, which is where I met her.

Aaron

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Blu...

I disagree with you also.... as I said.. my first gal was not to romantic during our first week... and I was thinking the same thing... not even a kiss.. but as I said, I think her view (she WAS married) was that if a man kissed her... it always led to sex... so she was 'programmed' not to even kiss...

Now, this lady is much younger.... so I do not know... but she is from the country, not the city... maybe even still a virgin (yes, there are still some at that age)....

Yes, I agree with what you've said here. The "one thing leads to another" factor may have had something to do with it. Plus, she is young, and I have a feeling she's very inexperienced in the "ways of love," if you will.

In one letter, Tamila told me that she's had only one serious romantic relationship in her adult life, and the guy eventually cheated on her. She seems to have taken that pretty hard, and I get the impression that she's now very reluctant to trust men.

In short, there are lots and lots of factors here that might be at work, some of which I may not even be aware of. Thanks, by the way, for providing some perspective on this.

Aaron

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave1

There is validity to the idea that just as Western Men are looking out for scams, gtg's, etc, some FSU women are cautious about being victimized by a sex tourist.

Dave, I hadn't thought of the "sex tourist" angle. This may be a part of it.

Aaron

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidney

For many of us the first trip is culture shock. I feel this can also be an advantage. I look forward to the time when we are able to send our son to grandma in the ukraine. Hopefully he will better understand that he can't have every little thing he wants.
Sid

I agree. It's amazing how much we take for granted in the U.S. Even the basics, like indoor toilets, are not universal in Ukraine. I've created a separate post on my visit to Tamila's mother's house, which illustrates the point.

Aaron

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spakoyna

Sorry to disagree! I spent 2 + 1/2 weeks with my wife the 1st time we met. A peck here and a peck there was it! We even slept in the same bed the last half of our time together.Our wonderful brotheren before us has left a wonderful rep for us. I could have probably pushed the issue ...probably did a bit...but who wants a gal that will jump on a 1st meeting???? I don't!

Who said anything about jumping on the fisrt meeting, I didn't, Im talking about a kiss, and not those chicken pecks you give your grandma either.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron2

To seduce a woman means you want sex, Im just talking about a kiss, the kind you would get at the end of a good date. I have read about a number of guys making the journey (one even made a second trip) with no kiss. Someone here gave me a piece of advice before I made my trip, don't act like this is the fist date, its kinda not, you have been talking to her for a while, you know her already, treat the first meeting like a 3-4 date. I told my lady that advice before I left and she agreed, took all the nervousness out of it. I made sure I got my "kiss" at the airport upon arrival, didn't want to be another statistical guy going all the way to Russia and not getting at least a kiss.

OK, on to a different subject, this was debated to death during RP's little jaunts to Ukraine. If your ok with no kiss, then its ok. I have only read one persons account where no kiss on the first trip actually turned out ok. Its up to how you feel about the situation, no one elses opinion matters.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

I think the 2nd and third meetings are much more informative as to where a relationship is going or could go. Some women do not think a man is serious until they arrive a second time and therefore the lack of romance.

Posted by: Aaron2

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

OK, on to a different subject, this was debated to death during RP's little jaunts to Ukraine. If your ok with no kiss, then its ok. I have only read one persons account where no kiss on the first trip actually turned out ok. Its up to how you feel about the situation, no one elses opinion matters.

I was okay with no kiss, as long as she's genuinely attracted to me and was just being demure on the first meeting. Obviously, I'm not going to waste my time on a second visit unless she's willing to take things to the next level.

Aaron

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron2

It's not just the Ukraine it's this way in all FSU countries and also European Union countries like Romania.

We have much to be thankful for.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron2

I agree. It's amazing how much we take for granted in the U.S. Even the basics, like indoor toilets, are not universal in Ukraine.

And most of the continent of Africa.

Posted by: Zmejka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron2

Even though she strongly hinted that she wanted some physical intimacy during our visit, it didn't turn out that way. In fact, we didn't even kiss each other on the lips.

I'm confused - how then did she hint that she wanted intimacy without kissing? Did she hug you? Tried to undress you? How did you understand this if there was lack of gestures as i could understand?

And did she reply to your letter?

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmejka

I'm confused

Yes it is a little hard to figure out....

Posted by: stevo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmejka

I'm confused - how then did she hint that she wanted intimacy without kissing?

I took it to mean that the hints had been in her prior correspondence.

Posted by: Stirlitz

I am also curious to learn what the �hints� were like�

Posted by: disculmawsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron2

Well, guys (and ladies), I returned on Monday from my week-long trip to Ukraine to visit my friend, Tamila. Frankly, I'm not sure how it went. For one thing, Tamila's English isn't that great, and neither is my Russian. So we had trouble communicating at times, which was clearly a source of frustration for her.

For another, I was surprised at how, um, chaste the whole experience was, for lack of a better word. Even though she strongly hinted that she wanted some physical intimacy during our visit, it didn't turn out that way. In fact, we didn't even kiss each other on the lips. I can't figure out if she just doesn't like me, or this is how she prefers to conduct a first meeting.

I got the very strong impression that she regarded our first meeting -- even though it lasted a week -- as one, long "first date." So the usual rules about first dates, including no kissing, were in force. I also learned that she comes from a very strict background. She described her mom as "very religious." In fact, her mom even called her the first night I was there, and told Tamila that she didn't want her staying out with me any later than 8:00 p.m. LOL! Anyway, all of this is new to me.

On the plus side, Tamila did take me to meet her mother (dad was working in a neighboring village). The woman at the agency -- who was terrifically helpful, by the way -- called this is a "very important step," and said that few women in her experience take their American boyfriends to meet mama on the first meeting. So I was encouraged by that.

I haven't written to Tamila yet. Through the interpreter, Tamila told me that she wouldn't really know how she felt until after I left. Taking that statement at face value (which seems odd to me), I want to give her a week before I write her and ask her to tell me what she's thinking and feeling.

At the end of the day, even though I'll be disappointed if Tamila says that she doesn't wish to continue the relationship, it was still a fantastic experience. I truly enjoyed my trip and experienced lots of new things. I won't forget it anytime soon! And I certainly want to go back. There are thousands of other women in that country, and I'd like to think one of them is waiting for me, even if it isn't Tamila.

Aaron this maybe a good sign it means that she is serious. Despite spending almost two weeks with O in August 2007 we had a very chaste two weeks. Even when I returned in December 2007 things were very chaste (and I met O's mother).
The heat did not turn up a little until she came to visit me this summer.
Do continue to write her if you think you are serious about her.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Hello Aaron,

It's been over 6 weeks since you returned from the Ukraine. I hope things are going well. If not, don't give up. Most of us don't meet the right girl the first time, like me.

Take care and Happy Landings!