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Plan B & C
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Posted by: matt235

OK everyone. I have decided that either my searching skills are really, really bad or what I am looking for just isn't there. So I'm putting this out for the masses to assess and provide any tidbits of wisdom. If there is a thread for this already, I would greatly appreciate a link to it.

As some of you know, I am in the midst of a serious search for the lady of my dreams. It seems that I have found a few that I have taken more of a liking to more than others, however, I do not know for sure if either of these 3 could be "the one". Because of this, I will want to visit them to develop that "chemistry" and determine our compatablilty. So here is the problem.

We have debated the WMVM/WOVO/WMVO until we are blue in the face and yet we remain in the same position we were when we started. I personally feel that I am the kind of guy that will fall into the WMVO with backup (i.e. Plan B, Plan C, etc). But I just don't know how to logistically set this up.

The way I see this is I am traveling, what 8000 miles, to visit a land I have never officially been to, so that I might meet a lady that I met on the internet. I think that her and I are going to be great, but when I get there, BOOM, she is a chain smoker, cusses worse than me (I am afterall an ex-sailor) and is greedy as they come. Not my kind of lady to be honest with you. Now that was a bit of an extreme example, but nonetheless, it is possible that it could happen that the chemistry just isn't there.

So on to Plan B and C. But how do you set this up in order to ensure that you can meet with B and C but not make them feel degraded or belittled knowing that they might not be my first choice? I think that I need to know this as soon as I can to make it as smooth as possible.

Any experience or input on this would be appreciated greatly.

Thanks,

Posted by: blucatz

Easy, figure out who B and C are, where they are located and if Plan A doesn't work, give them a call and tell them you are in town on business or something and ask if they would like to meet. Don't tell them about Plan A. If they ask, well then its up to you to decide what to tell them. Me, I would dodge that subject altogether. Or, Plan B could be that you just contact a local agency and have them set you up on a few visits with some of the local beauty's. Thats about as far as I can help you with, I got extremely lucky my first time out of the chute and everything worked out great the first time. Of course there was 1 little tiny bump in the road, but that was my fault.

Posted by: matt235

Should I even ask about the "1 little tiny bump in the road"?

Posted by: blucatz

The whole story is here http://russianmeetingplace.com/foru...highlight=Cairo

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

OK everyone. I have decided that either my searching skills are really, really bad or what I am looking for just isn't there. So I'm putting this out for the masses to assess and provide any tidbits of wisdom. If there is a thread for this already, I would greatly appreciate a link to it.

As some of you know, I am in the midst of a serious search for the lady of my dreams. It seems that I have found a few that I have taken more of a liking to more than others, however, I do not know for sure if either of these 3 could be "the one". Because of this, I will want to visit them to develop that "chemistry" and determine our compatablilty. So here is the problem.

We have debated the WMVM/WOVO/WMVO until we are blue in the face and yet we remain in the same position we were when we started. I personally feel that I am the kind of guy that will fall into the WMVO with backup (i.e. Plan B, Plan C, etc). But I just don't know how to logistically set this up.

The way I see this is I am traveling, what 8000 miles, to visit a land I have never officially been to, so that I might meet a lady that I met on the internet. I think that her and I are going to be great, but when I get there, BOOM, she is a chain smoker, cusses worse than me (I am afterall an ex-sailor) and is greedy as they come. Not my kind of lady to be honest with you. Now that was a bit of an extreme example, but nonetheless, it is possible that it could happen that the chemistry just isn't there.

Matt

Do you date multiple women in your town? If so, how good are you at it? If you don't date multiples, why not? To difficult to juggle? Takes too much of your time? None of these questions require an answer to post BTW. Just some questions you should ask yourself.

If you do date multiples locally you may want to go over and date multiples there. Then you have a plan A thru wherever you wish to stop. In that case get over there in a hurry, time is a'wastin.

If you don't date multiples locally, why would you think you can pull it off in a place where you don't know the lay of the land or the language? Take your time and find a lady through long distance communication to know. It can be done. Do your due diligence on one lady and if you are convinced she is what you think she is, go visit just her. Plan B would be a local agency number in your back pocket just incase things went south. I strongly believe if you take your time and get to know all about this woman, there is no going south and no going back.

Posted by: EasyTarget

No woman wants to think of herself as option B or worst yet option c, d, e....

I would state something to the effect of...Let's meet for a few days (3 or 4) and take it from there. Nothing more really needs to be said. She's smart she knows that after 3 or 4 days the chemistry may not be there.

Problem with E...L...S & Z is that you want to make sure that they are available when you are there; but you might stand them up. You don't want to toy with their emotions and then cancel the meeting. I haven't heard a good way of managing this (myself included) besides telling A that you will be there for 4 days and then telling B you will be there for 4 days and never tell A about B and vice-versa.

HOWEVER, you might be putting the cart in front of the horse here...
Keep writing the women, you would be amazed at how after a few emails you realize there isn't a connection. Talk to them on the phone, again maybe after speaking on the phone there isn't a connection (no pun intended).

Then decided if there really is 3 or 4 women you would like to meet.

About keeping organized. I would always save each woman's emails / letters in a separate folder, and review the last few emails before replying. Only takes a few extra minutes, but can help avoid major issues.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

About keeping organized. I would always save each woman's emails / letters in a separate folder, and review the last few emails before replying. Only takes a few extra minutes, but can help avoid major issues.

It will also keep you out of the mess that GG is in right now with 4 letters from ladies with the same name and can't figure out who's who.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by clark

Clark,

Well as far as dating more than one at a time, I have to say that yes I have and yes and no on the favorable results from doing this. It can be tricky at times. I would prefer to narrow it down to just one lady, but I am the analytical type that looks as all possible scenarios, the "what ifs".

My classic what if is "What if I spend $4000 or so to go meet one lady and then she is a bum". I have to have an out, a way out of a bad situation. Since I am planning on going in late November (at least planning), I could always resort to snow skiing if all else fails. However, I think that the agency phone number in the back pocket is probably going to be my best bet. Probably.

Thanks,

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

HOWEVER, you might be putting the cart in front of the horse here...
Keep writing the women, you would be amazed at how after a few emails you realize there isn't a connection. Talk to them on the phone, again maybe after speaking on the phone there isn't a connection (no pun intended).

Then decided if there really is 3 or 4 women you would like to meet.

I am going to keep at it with the ladies that I have been writing, it does seem that there are quite a few dropping off pretty quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

I have set up a folder for each one of them with their email going automatically into the folder. Problem is some of them have used more than one email address. Confuses the hell out of me sometimes. Also the review is very, very important. Found that out this morning when I was reviewing some emails. Seems I did a classic screw up...sent an email intended for one lady to a different lady. Yeah, you guessed it, different name, city, topics of discussion, etc. I have pretty much written that one off since she hasn't responded in about a week and a half now. I had to learn somehow!

Thanks again,

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

It will also keep you out of the mess that GG is in right now with 4 letters from ladies with the same name and can't figure out who's who.

Yeah, I had no idea the number of Olgas, Irinas, Natashas, and Natalias there actually are in Ukraine. I am still trying to figure out these two Yanas that I wrote to. Pulling out detective stuff asking about their parents, where they live, etc trying to put two and two together.

I have only dealt with an agency before (although I don't want to say it, the agency was Anastasia. Yes I know, we all have to learn somehow!). Anyway, I have never dealt with more than just a few ladies at a time and the organization portion of this was kind of done for me. But I am being resilient and pushing forward!

Posted by: I/O

Matt: Of course there is the risk of this degenerating to yet another VM vs VO debate and I have my own opinions on which will produce a more reliable result.

Nevertheless, the danger of things heading south with number one is always there. I do not agree with anyone who says you can know all about the other person if you spend due time and diligence in writing and phone conversations. The theory is fine, the practice is flawed. Neither of you are under pressure during those times and both are doing your best to impress each other. It becomes much like a meeting in a holiday location. It can work, but you are more likely NOT to see the whole picture.

Personally, I think the danger of a toilet relationship is much more subtle than many care to mention. Most say, oh maybe there will be no chemistry when you meet or she is this or I am that which one or the other of us didn't know. I met a lot of ladies whilst travelling a few years back, some I planned to meet and some I simply met because we both happened to be in that cafe, bar or whatever at the time. Never, did I meet anyone whom I couldn't develop some chemistry with. The issues most often, under the one on one type thing come later in the form of little things that simply don't gel together. That is when things are more painful and more expensive. You've visited her a few times and eventually you discover you are not for each other. Hard decisions must be made and MOST WILL TELL you, ahhhhhhhhh if you had not gone the visit one routine and had met a few women this would never happen. IMO, it is utter BS because by the second trip you have narrowed it down to one anyway or should have and it is relationship building time.

IMO there is three ways of doing the VM thing which maintain your integrity and FWIW I'll lay my thoughts based on experience out to be shot at.

1) You tell them all exactly what you are doing. IMO this is low risk on the integrity side and high risk on the success side because a) everyone knows the drill up front, but IME very few women will take you seriously on this basis. b) The risk of having a good time girl or a green card girl saying yes I will meet you is much higher. The conservatives simply won't touch you with a 40 foot pole.

2) You single out the one and also develop a very solid relationship with an all service agent. This I have not done, but I believe is the best option for a first time traveller for several reasons. You have logistical back up anyway. You can use the agency to arrange apartments etc. You are under no obligation to the lady for anything. I do believe that perception of independence is highly valuable in the early stages. Without being rude, you have control of your own destiny in the given situation and I don't think it hurts for her to understand that very clearly. In most situations, if she is helping arrange all for you, she is running the show and inequality is no way to start a relationship. Visit one, with well thought out agency support. You may never use the agency to meet women, or you may.

3) This was my choice when I did the VM routine and it served the purpose, although I am simply not a VM guy. I might have and did date a different girl each weekend at home, but once I decided to date another girl next weekend, there was no going back to the girl from this weekend so to say, so at the end of the day, I am and always have been a one on one person. Simply write and tell them you will be meeting them on xyz day at xyz location, you will be there for several (you can be specific) days and tell them nothing more. The savvy girl will know the drill but it is the old story of ladies or gentlemen never "Kiss and tell". It will be up to her as to whether or not she will take the risk of being able to corner you for herself once she eyeballs you. Doing this, you MUST make all your own arrangements and tell almost nothing. I suggest 4 days per meeting this way and here is why. You have two days travelling either way. A one week vacation is quite normal so you can sell the numbers by saying I have short vacation time and it is two days travelling either way. You don't need to spell it out, but 8 days, the numbers crunch. She might suspect, probably will suspect, but if you don't tell she won't be sure and if she feels into your communications via the net enough, she will run the risk. Russian women are very good at competing for their man once they decide he is their man.

Frankly I think most guys who ask about this are not suited to it because the VM thing requires a good degree of self confidence and it also requires a good degree of playing your cards very close to your chest. BTW, the best way to avoid them wanting to see you off at the airport which they assume you are doing directly after parting with them is simply to say you are no good a airport goodbyes and will be leaving tomorrow so you prefer goodbye now.

FWIW

I/O

Posted by: Big wheel

When I started my search I came down to two women. And after a few weeks lady #2 made a comment i didn't like. And the rest is history.

Just sit back and talk with your friends. And you will see the way to go

Posted by: Big wheel

And I think if you tell them what your plans are that would be alright. OFcouse they may not like it but they should under stand. If one of them ask why after am I after her. Goodluck but I think if you say that the way it work out or something like that.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Matt: Of course there is the risk of this degenerating to yet another VM vs VO debate and I have my own opinions on which will produce a more reliable result.

You are very correct about this possibility. I worried about this when I initially posted this thread and I figure if a couple of people want to argue this then so be it, they will do it here or somewhere else. The only true solution to that argument is either don't start it or understand it is truly a personal preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

3) This was my choice when I did the VM routine and it served the purpose, although I am simply not a VM guy. I might have and did date a different girl each weekend at home, but once I decided to date another girl next weekend, there was no going back to the girl from this weekend so to say, so at the end of the day, I am and always have been a one on one person. Simply write and tell them you will be meeting them on xyz day at xyz location, you will be there for several (you can be specific) days and tell them nothing more. The savvy girl will know the drill but it is the old story of ladies or gentlemen never "Kiss and tell". It will be up to her as to whether or not she will take the risk of being able to corner you for herself once she eyeballs you. Doing this, you MUST make all your own arrangements and tell almost nothing. I suggest 4 days per meeting this way and here is why. You have two days travelling either way. A one week vacation is quite normal so you can sell the numbers by saying I have short vacation time and it is two days travelling either way. You don't need to spell it out, but 8 days, the numbers crunch. She might suspect, probably will suspect, but if you don't tell she won't be sure and if she feels into your communications via the net enough, she will run the risk. Russian women are very good at competing for their man once they decide he is their man.

Actually your thoughts on situation number 3 is one that might actually be in my best interest with a bit of a twist. It seems that the three ladies that I have been talking to are all in different cities. (Note: I tried to isolate just one particular city...went so far as posting a thread and asking the masses. Everyone has their own opinion of course. Seems that many suggested the shotgun approach...which I did, and now I am dealing with my results.) Anyway, with ladies in three different cities, it is possible for me to meet each one in their city for about 4 days and then move on to the next city. This would prevent running into them on the street, give me a chance to see a little more of Ukraine, and solve my Plan A,B,C issue in one fell swoop. Logistically it appears to be a nightmare, but I am a guy that has lived out of a suitcase more of his adult life than not and I have seen the insides of more airports than a dozen men. The travelling portion is acceptable. The problem that I might have is local guidance. Maybe an agency or something along those ideas. Either way it is an option at this point.

I really appreciate the way you laid it all out. It really made a lot of sense and was what I was really looking for.

As you said, there are so many variables that you instantly pick up on when you meet the lady for the first time that are just impossible to detect through 20 years of daily emails or phone call. Likewise the meeting at a holiday spot is in my opinion useless for a first meeting. (Don't anyone go and start jumping on me about that comment. It is my opinion and we all know what the say about opinions!)

I am actually quite OK with the VM process, however, my biggest concern was the timing aspect (or lack of time). I will only have about 10 to 12 days of interaction the first time around and maybe even less than that. Therefore I need to make sure I make good use of my time and money spent in the process.

I have one other thought on this process. I know that most agencies will set up the meetings/dates with you and the ladies. I think that this is also a possible solution to my crisis. I am going to use Kiev Connections program as an example because I am somewhat familar with it. They ask you to pay a certain amount of money, give them the names of 10 ladies from their database and you both work from there. They set up 3 "dates" with ladies and allow you to work from there. I would assume that somewhere along the way the ladies understand that a guy (like myself) would be visiting more than just one of them. Seems like they would take care of the difficult portion for you. Then again, maybe I am just rambling and should get off of the computer.

I/O, either way, you have enlightened me and I sincerely thank you for your insight.

Take care,

Posted by: clark

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Yeah me too. Several times and failed miserably each time. Never a good result. I have always found it impossible to lie to, for or about someone. I never once thought it might be different in this endeavor either.

Posted by: EasyTarget

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

My classic what if is "What if I spend $4000 or so to go meet one lady and then she is a bum". I have to have an out, a way out of a bad situation.

I for one will never think in terms of how much money I am or am not spending, can you really put a price on love?

I/O made a point what if you met her 3 times and then find out a long term relationship is not going to work? Will you have a plan B on your 3rd and 4th meeting?

I still think that in the writing stages you will find a woman you are most compatible or at least most in lust with, and you center your travel plans around her. The 4 days of meeting seems logical since it does take a few days of being together to see if it will work long term.

The few things I have learned so far....
1. There will be surprises during the 1st meeting; good and bad
2. Don't fall in love, lust with a photo
3. Get all of the bio-facts out of the way in the first 3 or 4 emails, and then start asking deeper questions
4. Talking on the phone will help you assess things further
5. No man has a perfect strategy that will work for all men; do what you feel most comfortable with -- if you are comfortable it will aid your chances on being successful
6. There will be cultural or language misunderstandings, how the two of you handle them will determine if the relationship has legs
7. A large investment of time before meeting puts additional desires to make the relationship work...but pushing a bad situation will just make things worst
8. You needs lots and lots and lots of patience to be successful
9. A good sense of humor will aid you greatly
10. Being completely honest with yourself about who you are -- and the type of woman you wish to be with - write it down even, it makes it so much easier to ask the right questions and make a good decision
11. Stop trying to figure her out -- just go with the flow.

Posted by: Texas Proud

I did the VO.... to two different ladies...

The first thing in my mind was to go meet the lady... the second was to have a nice vacation.... hopefully both... and to tell the truth, both trips were successful... the first one became a bust after to many little things kept piling up and then finding out she wanted more children... well, that was it...

The second lady was a success... still, bumps in the road... but just like any relationship...

Good luck to you...

Posted by: I/O

Matt: If you decide to meet women via an agency, it is a totally 'nother ball game. The women KNOW you will meet others, they meet other men themselves. This is simply a different playing field altogether IMO.

BTW your 3 in 3 cities in 12 days is about exactly what I did only over a longer span. I kinda did 7 in 7 ................twice if you catch my drift. Living from a suit case comes pretty easy to me and I was always well organised to be very mobile. However, ultimately I decided it wasn't my cup of tea.

In the end, when I lost interest in the whole idea the perfect solution came to me. I did nothing. I received a letter and ultimately she came to visit me. 3 years later we were married. How easy is that? (If you leave out a few small details, such as about umpteen trips back and forth in the interim, about a million hours soul searching and naval gazing, months of solo time, expense, stress, frustration, dummy spits, arguments, cyber shouting matches and all the rest that goes with the territory.)

I/O

Posted by: dagpop

Matt, when I went to Tashkent to meet Rima,there was no plan B or C. I just had the A plan. You just go on faith that things will work out (which it did).
If things fell through, I would of made it as a sight seeing trip.

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagpop

Matt, when I went to Tashkent to meet Rima,there was no plan B or C. I just had the A plan. You just go on faith that things will work out (which it did).
If things fell through, I would of made it as a sight seeing trip.

Yes, get a sight-seeing plan in order in case all else fails. Which also explains why many that are searching don't go beyond Moscow or Kiev. At least there is something to do. But we must all be aware of what's in the areas you visit before you go. If I ever find anyone I like in a place such as Vinnitsa or Omsk, I would have to do a lot of "homework" before going, as I wouldn't have any interest, otherwise, in those places, for example.

Likewise, this is why I would not go to Zimbabwe. Perhaps the most favorable women-to-men ratio of any place in the world.......but do I have a reason to to there otherwise?

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

Likewise, this is why I would not go to Zimbabwe. Perhaps the most favorable women-to-men ratio of any place in the world.......but do I have a reason to to there otherwise?

I have to admit, Zimbabwe never came up on my radar as a place I really wanted to go to either!

Posted by: goforit

I think there are a number of things you should take into account.

1. Know thyself.

What am I like on my home turf? Frankly I think the WMV...? question is useless in the abstract. The question is, what are you like at home? Figure that out and then tailor a trip that works towards your strengths.

I have no problem dating several women at once, but for a guy that doesn't do that he should not even consider this route, IMO, only asking for a heap of trouble. It takes a good deal of self-confidence, a strong streak of independence, a "play things close to the chest mentality" (in other words if you are one of those guys who think that when a women asks you a question honesty demands that you own up to everything, then VM is not the route for you) and a solid knowledge of the other gender.

In my experience, most guys can't successfully pull this off in their home country, let alone in a foreign milieu.

2. Know women

Women are a mystery for sure, but there are some basic things that apply to ALL women, no matter where they are from.

They value independence. Ask for help here and there if need be but best if you make all your own plans and don't make it seem like you need her, at least early on.

They value a certain kind of aloofness, at least up front. Hey, if they think they have you in the bag right up front, their interest will most likely wane or rather they may keep searching while keeping you tethered to the post. If they think you have a "take or leave it attitude," or you "don't really care attitude," or the "yes I want and need a woman but I don't necessarily need you" attitude, that, IMO, will pay big dividends up front. This is why sometimes even a good fight can be healthy, so she doesn't perceive you as a pushover. A challenge keeps us interested, a doormat does not.

They do not want to be second fiddle. In theory the idea of telling a woman you are visiting more than one sounds good, in practice its a disaster. Let her wonder if you will, but if you are visiting many and tell her outright your relationship with her is most likely over.

They don't want to be bought. Sure there are certain women that can be razzled and dazzled by money and things, but a good women will only want to know that your are financially stable. If she perceives you are trying to buy her love, watch out! A good woman will blow you off, a GTG/GCG will saddle right up and tell you everything you want to hear.

3. Know the terrain.

By all means, no matter the approach, have a backup plan. This is where international dating really differs from local dating. Things go south locally we can just go home and start again. Things go south internationally and we have a huge time and money investment that we want to make worthwhile.

Decide up front you are going to have a good time, no matter what, then proceed to set up your trip so that such is the outcome. Decide up front that money per se is not the issue. IMO, if you develop a bad attitude because of the money you spent or may spend, you are not ready for the international dating scene, and are setting yourself up for a load of frustration and bitterness.

The backup plan will again depend on knowing your strengths. Can you plan a trip where you visit a girl for several days and then go visit another without feeling the need to reveal your plans if asked? And can you juggle the demands of staying in touch with one while visiting another? If so then WMV more than one may work for you. This is one reason why, if you are visiting more than one, IMO, it is best not to visit while they are on vacation. The day gives you some time to take care of other business while she is at work.

Think of it this way. If you have dated multiple women locally, you KNOW you could never pull that off if those women had 24/7 access to you. No way. The varying schedules, access, level of commitment, etc., is what makes such a thing possible.

If visiting more than one is not your cup of tea then you can go the agency route. Then you can visit as many as you like and see what develops.

By knowing the terrain, i.e. having a schedule set up for socializing that is independent of your date, you ensure you can have a good time no matter what. The key in my opinion is to GO LOCAL. Don't do as the tourists do, but do as the natives do. Plant some roots wherever you are for the next time you come and visit.

Hire a gal friday, and/or take a translator, and head out for the sites and sounds of the city, even doing some of the same things you would do at home. That way you will meet people who share the same interests as you. And if the city you are in doesn't provide any of that, make sure you plan on going to a city that does. This way, no matter the outcome, you will enjoy yourself, and maybe make a few friends in the process.

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by I/O

Matt: Of course there is the risk of this degenerating to yet another VM vs VO debate and I have my own opinions on which will produce a more reliable result.

Great stuff I/O. Thanks!

Posted by: goforit

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

More great stuff!!

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

By knowing the terrain, i.e. having a schedule set up for socializing that is independent of your date, you ensure you can have a good time no matter what. The key in my opinion is to GO LOCAL. Don't do as the tourists do, but do as the natives do. Plant some roots wherever you are for the next time you come and visit.

Hire a gal friday, and/or take a translator, and head out for the sites and sounds of the city, even doing some of the same things you would do at home. That way you will meet people who share the same interests as you. And if the city you are in doesn't provide any of that, make sure you plan on going to a city that does. This way, no matter the outcome, you will enjoy yourself, and maybe make a few friends in the process.

In another thread, I had discussed the possibility of dragging along my bicycle (big hobby of mine) if I was trying to kill time during the day. I'm starting to think that it might be a very convienent means of getting around to see different things.

Also, there are alot of things (and some time) yet to get straightened out before I go. Mainly just where am I going anyway! Seems the lady that I have been talking to lives in Krivoy Rog but wants to meet in Kiev. Something about her hometown being "ugly". Not sure if I like this idea, but I'm working on it.

thanks,

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

They value a certain kind of aloofness, at least up front. Hey, if they think they have you in the bag right up front, their interest will most likely wane or rather they may keep searching while keeping you tethered to the post. If they think you have a "take or leave it attitude," or you "don't really care attitude," or the "yes I want and need a woman but I don't necessarily need you" attitude, that, IMO, will pay big dividends up front. This is why sometimes even a good fight can be healthy, so she doesn't perceive you as a pushover. A challenge keeps us interested, a doormat does not.

In Belarus, both men and women seem to be aloof, to a certain degree. They are cautious, until they know who you are. Once they are comfortable with you, then they will drop the guard down, and "roll out the red carpet".

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

They do not want to be second fiddle. In theory the idea of telling a woman you are visiting more than one sounds good, in practice its a disaster. Let her wonder if you will, but if you are visiting many and tell her outright your relationship with her is most likely over.

On a first trip, many will excuse the fact that you are going to another city. After all, you come all this way to (fill in the blank----Sumy, Vinnitsa, Donetsk, etc.) but NOT going to Kiev? They will let the "tourist city" slide on the first trip, but may be suspicious on subsequent trips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

[They don't want to be bought. Sure there are certain women that can be razzled and dazzled by money and things, but a good women will only want to know that your are financially stable. If she perceives you are trying to buy her love, watch out! A good woman will blow you off, a GTG/GCG will saddle right up and tell you everything you want to hear.

And some will tell you that a certain thing is expensive, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

Think of it this way. If you have dated multiple women locally, you KNOW you could never pull that off if those women had 24/7 access to you. No way. The varying schedules, access, level of commitment, etc., is what makes such a thing possible.

Yes, and it would be disaterous for a lady to show up where you are with another woman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goforit

The key in my opinion is to GO LOCAL. Don't do as the tourists do, but do as the natives do. Plant some roots wherever you are for the next time you come and visit.

Local is the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Also, there are alot of things (and some time) yet to get straightened out before I go. Mainly just where am I going anyway! Seems the lady that I have been talking to lives in Krivoy Rog but wants to meet in Kiev. Something about her hometown being "ugly". Not sure if I like this idea, but I'm working on it.

For two reasons......one, the lady may actually find her city "boring", and a good excuse to go to somewhere more exciting.....or two, not wanting to be seen with you locally. Not that you are a bad person, but you could be bothered while you are out together.

Posted by: I/O

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Seems the lady that I have been talking to lives in Krivoy Rog but wants to meet in Kiev. Something about her hometown being "ugly".

My advice, based on experience, is don't buy this one under any circumstances. I have never ever met and Russian or near neighbour who wasn't keen to for me to see their home town no matter how "Ugly" it might have been. It's a BS line to march you on the shopping or expensive holiday road.

The RW who is serious about a relationship will ABSOLUTELY want you to see where and how she lives. She might be a little "red" (As many will term it), but she WILL wan't you to see. The rarity of the wanting to meet elsewhere first is so much a rarity among the genuine ones that IMO it is a deal breaker. I did meet people outside their home location but it was a convenience thing for me more than anything else. If they ever pushed that direction, the "Jam" was over right there and then.

Matt, as visitors, we are behind the eight ball from the get go with this thing. You are on their turf and they are holding all the aces, you know, "Men propose and women dispose" as it were. One of the very few advantages a guy has is that he has the opportunity to see her on her turf before it goes anywhere. Opportunity knocks but once, one you miss is one you never catch up on. Visit her on HER turf and don't take no for an answer. If she is the right woman for you and she lives in an odd location, even sitting together on the apartment stairs for hours is not boring. Again, if she is avoiding this with "Ugly City" lines, call her out or give her the flick immediately.

Another poster remarked, I think correctly, as to part of the reason why many don't venture beyond Moscow or Kiev. Nevertheless, one of the cities he mentioned is 1.5 million people. If a traveller can't find something interesting to do in a city of 1.5 million, then I think the problem lies with the traveller, not the city.

I/O

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

I went to Kiev with my fiancee after first going to her city and meeting her son and friends. We also stayed only a week in Kiev and 1.5 weeks in her city. Offer a visit to her city first before going to Kiev. If she refuses then I would pass on her ... or if you do go, think of it as a vacation and not a chance to meet your future wife.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Posted by: Raspberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

Offer a visit to her city first before going to Kiev. If she refuses then I would pass on her ... or if you do go, think of it as a vacation and not a chance to meet your future wife.

There was this one lady in Mariupol that wanted to meet me, but not in her home city. Granted, people may not want to be seen by neighbors or co-workers the first time out.....so I offered to go to meet in Donetsk, which is close, but far enough out of the way. She wanted to meet in Turkey or Crimea.........but I don't buy vacation for someone that I have never met.

Sorry, that is a "no-go". Spending a bunch of bucks on an unknown quality.
Perhaps the chemistry wouldn't happen, and I would be out of luck at that point.

Matt, it may be understandable for her not to be seen publicly on a first meeting. Offer a close-by city. If she is in Krivoy Rog, I would say, offer to meet in, let's say, Dnepropetrovsk---it is not that far. You are meeting her halfway on this. If she doesn't go for it, most likely she is trying to milk you for a vacation.

Posted by: blucatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raspberry

If you really question whether or not she is just after a vacation or something, do what I did, tell her to meet you there. Let her provide for her own travel expenses, that will weed out any GTG's. My lady not only provided her own transportation but also booked and paid for our room in Egypt, all I had to do was meet her in Moscow and she took it from there. Impressed the hell out of me she did.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

I just emailed her with a suggestion along these lines. I told her that it was important that I see her in her normal environment to ensure that our chemistry is working the way it should. Once we are sure that we want to continue, then we could go to Kiev, Odessa, etc. Although I didn't mention it exactly in the email, what I would really like to do is to meet her in Krivoy Rog and do things there for about 4 days and then go to do some snow skiing for about 4 days...ideally with her in tow. After the skiing, return to Krivoy Rog via a couple of days in Kiev. One note about going to Kiev, she went to college in Kiev for 5 years so she is rather familiar with Kiev, hence her suggestion.

If this works out, I would fly into Dnep and take a bus to Krivoy Rog (about 1.5 or 2 hours) and stay in an apartment in KR for those 4 days. If I get there and realize that I can't stand her or she can't stand me, I will jump back on the bus to Dnep and look up an agency there. This way, if it doesn't work out with her and I, at least I won't be in the same town/city as she is possibly bumping into each other and creating problems.

Time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucatz

I will propose this if she is still balking at my other suggestions. As of right now she innocently said that she would meet me at the airport in Kiev. But she also mentioned that I should rent an apartment for "us", which of course opens up another completely different beast (1 or 2 bedrooms, etc.)

Geez, this is a pain in the butt and exciting as hell all at the same time.

Posted by: GoingToRussia

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

If she is spending money to meet you in Kiev, that's a good sign, probably not a scammer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

Geez, this is a pain in the butt and exciting as hell all at the same time.

But believe me it is worth it in the long run if things work out.

Posted by: matt235

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingToRussia

But believe me it is worth it in the long run if things work out.

I must to listen to the Wise Ones.

(yeah GTR, you are one of the Wise Ones!)

later,

Posted by: freebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt235

and then go to do some snow skiing for about 4 days...ideally with her in tow.

Where do you plan to go skiing?

Posted by: matt235

Well, I had been talking to stirlitz a couple of weeks ago and he suggested Bukovel. I am planning on going to Ukraine over the Thanksgiving holidays (US Thanksgiving is November 27th this year) and I just saw on the Bukovel website that they officially open on November 26. Now I just have to hope that things work out with me lady and that they actually have snow on the ground.